| arjan | meego is not one single thing; meego is an OS that addresses multiple verticals | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| arjan | netbook, ivi and soon phone and tv and such | 00:00 |
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| taljurf | sabayonuser, so meego, and meego ivi are different | 00:00 |
| sabayonuser | arjan: thanks | 00:00 |
| GordonS | arjan: and an API :-P | 00:01 |
| taljurf | sabayonuser, like windows and windows mobile | 00:01 |
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| GordonS | thiago: the netsplit is a lot more impressive-looking in #qt-labs :) | 00:01 |
| sabayonuser | got it.. but just wanted to know the difference is only the car stuff? | 00:01 |
| sabayonuser | taljurf: got it | 00:01 |
| taljurf | :) | 00:01 |
| sabayonuser | so meego is the big daddy? | 00:01 |
| sabayonuser | :) | 00:02 |
| sabayonuser | Parent | 00:02 |
| taljurf | exactly ;) | 00:02 |
| thiago_home | arjan: I'm pretty sure my benchmarks are wrong though, but valgrind doesn't handle SSE4 | 00:02 |
| Nexus1 | sabayonuser: meego ivi is not made to be installed on computers | 00:02 |
| sabayonuser | and IVI and others will be a spin | 00:02 |
| thiago_home | arjan: I need a different tool. What do you recommend? | 00:02 |
| vgrade | Stskeeps, Have I missed the beer | 00:02 |
| tripzero | Nexus1, depends on how you define "computer" | 00:02 |
| tripzero | ;) | 00:02 |
| ScottishDuck | Meego is a base which a full UX is built upon | 00:02 |
| sabayonuser | Nexus1: but can i still use it as a live cd to play around? | 00:02 |
| tripzero | ivi is an iso so yes | 00:03 |
| sabayonuser | i understand the diff OS is written for diff devices, | 00:03 |
| Nexus1 | tripzero: You know what i mean, no need to be so technicle, but i meant desktop computers or laptop computers | 00:03 |
| sabayonuser | and IVI is targetted towards the car market | 00:04 |
| tripzero | Nexus1, ;) | 00:04 |
| Nexus1 | sabayonuser: No, just usethelink i gave you | 00:04 |
| sabayonuser | ok | 00:04 |
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| tripzero | Nexus1, some people run desktop computers/laptops in their car. that's why i said that | 00:05 |
| sabayonuser | Nexus1: since the link you gave is for netbooks.. can it still be used for desktops/laptops | 00:06 |
| Nexus1 | tripzero: Meego IVIisa new os beingcreayed as an automobile dashboard OS | 00:07 |
| sabayonuser | like arjan said.. about ss3 | 00:07 |
| GordonS | sabayon: as long as you have Intel graphics | 00:07 |
| Nexus1 | sabayonuser: Yes i am using it on a desktop | 00:07 |
| sabayonuser | oh | 00:07 |
| ali1234 | sabayonuser: and intel cpu | 00:07 |
| GordonS | indeed | 00:07 |
| sabayonuser | well i have dell p4 1.7Ghz, 1Gig Ram, nvidia,\ | 00:07 |
| GordonS | though I have heard rumour of it working on recent AMD | 00:07 |
| ali1234 | sabayonuser: won;t work | 00:07 |
| GordonS | but no worky on nVidia right now | 00:07 |
| ali1234 | too old | 00:07 |
| GordonS | I hope to fix that... | 00:07 |
| GordonS | the nVidia part I mean | 00:07 |
| sabayonuser | you just said intel cpu | 00:07 |
| sabayonuser | dell has intell cpu | 00:08 |
| ali1234 | sabayonuser: recent intel cpu | 00:08 |
| GordonS | [15:07:06] <GordonS> sabayonuser: as long as you have Intel graphics | 00:08 |
| ali1234 | core 2 or better | 00:08 |
| GordonS | or atmo | 00:08 |
| sabayonuser | ah | 00:08 |
| GordonS | atom even | 00:08 |
| sabayonuser | so a live usb/cd wont work on my hardware then? | 00:08 |
| ali1234 | hell no | 00:08 |
| sabayonuser | i guess that is a sill y question | 00:08 |
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| ali1234 | i don't think it is a silly question | 00:09 |
| ali1234 | i think it's silly that you can't run it personally. but there you go. | 00:09 |
| sabayonuser | :) | 00:09 |
| sabayonuser | i was just looking forward to creating a live cd and testing it out | 00:10 |
| sabayonuser | but i guess that is not going to work on my hardware | 00:10 |
| tripzero | Nexus1, I'm well familiar with what MeeGo IVI is. ;) | 00:11 |
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| sabayonuser | well.. btw, i just remembered that i had that experience with "android" live cd. it booted to show my "Android" and sat there till i asked him for tea | 00:11 |
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| Nexus1 | sabayonuser: Well if you get a new computer in the future with intel CPU then make sure to try it | 00:12 |
| sabayonuser | :).. can't wait | 00:13 |
| sabayonuser | just so confused about what to get so as to minimize all these limitations | 00:13 |
| sabayonuser | what cpu/mem/hd/graphics/ etc | 00:14 |
| sabayonuser | what is the optimum system? :) | 00:14 |
| thiago_home | lotsa memory, lotsa cores, lotsa disk | 00:14 |
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| zariz | i was thinking ivi becouse it looks promising but were i can find it's future plans? everytime i pick one couple new ones step in. it's really hard to target one platform. | 00:14 |
| sabayonuser | is intel better than amd | 00:14 |
| thiago_home | I think an hexcore 12-thread i7 with 8GB RAM and a 200 GB SSD, with a 1 GB NVidia 9600 is a good start | 00:15 |
| sabayonuser | but i hear that i5 does something better than i7... is that true? | 00:15 |
| ali1234 | no | 00:16 |
| sabayonuser | i don't know what exactly.. just heard it in a computer shop yestereday | 00:16 |
| ali1234 | the only thing it might do better is it might use less electricity | 00:16 |
| sabayonuser | hehe | 00:16 |
| sabayonuser | lol | 00:16 |
| ali1234 | all i would say is 1. hyperthreading sucks | 00:16 |
| sabayonuser | ok. i have a question about noise | 00:16 |
| sabayonuser | is there a noiseless system | 00:16 |
| Nexus1 | sabayonuser: A netbook with intel atom or a computer/laptop with intel core2duo, pentium dual core, core 13, core 15, core i7 should all work.... Memory doesn't matter, but at least 1 gig would be nice....hd doesn't matter... Not sureabout graphics though | 00:16 |
| ali1234 | and 2. amd is cheaper than intel for the same spec, if you include the price of motherboard and ram | 00:17 |
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| Nexus1 | Sorry I ment i3 and i5 instead of 13 and 15 | 00:17 |
| sabayonuser | and what about heat | 00:17 |
| Nexus1 | all1234: but | 00:18 |
| sabayonuser | i hear some OS run producing less heat | 00:18 |
| Nexus1 | ali1234: Meego won't run on amd CPU | 00:18 |
| ali1234 | Nexus1: yes, i know | 00:18 |
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| ali1234 | Nexus1: that's not a good reason to buy intel instead of amd. in fact, it is a good reason to buy amd instead of intel imo | 00:19 |
| sabayonuser | then comes the fact which drivers are easily available for which OS | 00:19 |
| sabayonuser | gosh.. decisions decisions | 00:19 |
| sabayonuser | in linux i meant | 00:20 |
| sabayonuser | i'm donne with 'indoz | 00:20 |
| sabayonuser | don't want to see it unless its attached to my house | 00:20 |
| sabayonuser | lol | 00:20 |
| zariz | Can anyone tell who is contact person for meego ivi? | 00:20 |
| thiago_home | zariz: on which subject? | 00:21 |
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| sabayonuser | defining one's application/needs it has become impossible to just have one machine .. multiple hardware has become mandatory.. | 00:23 |
| Nexus1 | http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/26/meego-becomes-infotainment-operating-system-of-choice-for-bmw-g/ | 00:24 |
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| sabayonuser | hardware and software battle continues.. hard punches and soft punches | 00:24 |
| sabayonuser | lol | 00:24 |
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| sabayonuser | Nexus1: i'm asuming they mean the IVI version . right? | 00:25 |
| Nexus1 | sabayonuser: Yes | 00:26 |
| sabayonuser | k | 00:26 |
| sabayonuser | i should have read it first.. it does say "...infotainment.." | 00:26 |
| sabayonuser | lol | 00:26 |
| Nexus1 | I think that's gonna be real cool... Programmers will be able to develop software for their dashboards | 00:27 |
| sabayonuser | it better be voice operated | 00:27 |
| sabayonuser | :) | 00:27 |
| sabayonuser | if you ask it to avoid traffic.. with the machine fly? | 00:28 |
| sabayonuser | :) | 00:28 |
| Nexus1 | I'm pretty sure they have thought of that ;) | 00:28 |
| sabayonuser | rofl | 00:28 |
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| sabayonuser | i have a at&t tilt.. phone.. with windows mobile.. can meego be installed on that | 00:30 |
| sabayonuser | or is that a silly question? | 00:31 |
| thiago_home | sabayonuser: what processor does that have? Do you have a flasher tool for that phone? | 00:31 |
| sabayonuser | well. | 00:32 |
| ali1234 | it's a htc, probably snapdragon or msm | 00:32 |
| sabayonuser | ali1234: yep htc | 00:32 |
| ali1234 | nearly all of them are hacked now | 00:32 |
| sabayonuser | have to look for the docs for the processor.. but i'm sure ali1234 is right | 00:32 |
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| ali1234 | there is almost certainly an android for it, i expect meego builds on htc to start popping up as someone explains how the hell we're supposed to compile it | 00:33 |
| sabayonuser | ali1234: so it is possible? | 00:33 |
| ali1234 | possible, sure | 00:33 |
| thiago_home | ARMv7 generic builds are done | 00:33 |
| thiago_home | the question is hardware adaptation | 00:33 |
| ali1234 | i think tilt is kaiser actually | 00:33 |
| thiago_home | ARM hardware varies quite a lot, and unlike x86, there's very little in terms of detection | 00:33 |
| ali1234 | which is armv5 iirc | 00:33 |
| thiago_home | why should there be? You know what hardware you put on your device :-) | 00:33 |
| ali1234 | yes, i know, i work on a linux port to one of these htc phones | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | it's a damn mess | 00:34 |
| Nexus1 | sabayonuser: no, meego os for cell phones is still not stable... It's not even in beta yet | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | if you don't have docs | 00:34 |
| ali1234 | but there's not much we can do about it | 00:34 |
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| ali1234 | sabayonuser: in mean time you can play with this: http://www.androidonhtc.com/wiki/Latest_Builds_(Kaiser) | 00:35 |
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| ali1234 | of course kaiser only has QVGA - i'm not expecting meego interface to work on such a low res, not without a lot of hacking anyway | 00:37 |
| ali1234 | also it has no hw3d | 00:37 |
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| sabayonuser | thiago_home: i don't have a flasher tool.. although i remember downloading something.. but never used it | 00:37 |
| zariz | MSG thiago_home I like to know developent cource for meego ivi. So i can integrate my application for it | 00:38 |
| sabayonuser | Nexus1: but on the web site it says something about handheld devices | 00:38 |
| Nexus1 | zariz: Have you checked the meego website? | 00:38 |
| thiago_home | zariz: all the source is online | 00:38 |
| thiago_home | zariz: not sure there are images for IVI yet | 00:38 |
| thiago_home | zariz: the easiest way, for now, is to get a netbook image and develop inside | 00:39 |
| thiago_home | SDKs are coming soon | 00:39 |
| sabayonuser | ali1234: so android can be installed? | 00:39 |
| ali1234 | yes | 00:40 |
| Nexus1 | sabayonuser: Yes but as it says on the right it's only a developer preview | 00:40 |
| ali1234 | it might not work with all hardware, i don't know | 00:40 |
| sabayonuser | ok.. i've never done something like this.. so what is my first step | 00:40 |
| sabayonuser | Nexus1: oh | 00:40 |
| ali1234 | sabayonuser: this isn't really the right place to talk about it | 00:40 |
| sabayonuser | its a tilt 8900 family | 00:40 |
| sabayonuser | ok | 00:41 |
| sabayonuser | sorry | 00:41 |
| sabayonuser | sovvy | 00:41 |
| sabayonuser | lol | 00:41 |
| ali1234 | you'll have to read the wiki i linked to | 00:41 |
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| Nexus1 | sabayonuser: Check the android channel or android-dev channel | 00:42 |
| sabayonuser | ali1234: Nexus1 ok.. | 00:42 |
| ali1234 | actually htc people are all in #htc-linux, but they're all kernel developers and don't much like getting "how i install android?" questions | 00:43 |
| sabayonuser | lol | 00:43 |
| sabayonuser | ok.. won't ask | 00:43 |
| ali1234 | there's a guide on that wiki anyway | 00:43 |
| sabayonuser | ok another question.. is android better that the windows moble 6 pro | 00:44 |
| sabayonuser | for the htc i mean | 00:44 |
| thiago_home | at least it's Linux | 00:44 |
| thiago_home | but you should ask that question to people who have tried both on that hardware | 00:44 |
| sabayonuser | thiago_home: true | 00:44 |
| thiago_home | this is #meego | 00:44 |
| Nexus1 | Alright gonna go now bye everyone | 00:45 |
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| sabayonuser | yes.. just drifted coz i really would like to see meego on mobile | 00:45 |
| CosmoHill | somehow you set off my highlight | 00:45 |
| CosmoHill | good evning everyone .o/ | 00:45 |
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| ali1234 | we're working on it... well, i am | 00:45 |
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| ali1234 | meego on htc i mean | 00:46 |
| sabayonuser | ah | 00:46 |
| sabayonuser | nice | 00:46 |
| ali1234 | although it's probably going to end up as meego ui on top of gentoo on htc, because i'll be damned if i can figure out how OBS works | 00:46 |
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| ScottishDuck | well the HD2 seems like a good candidate for meego | 00:47 |
| ali1234 | and that's if meego ui can even be coaxed to work on 320x240 screen | 00:47 |
| sabayonuser | limitations | 00:47 |
| sabayonuser | got it | 00:47 |
| thiago_home | make different apps | 00:47 |
| ali1234 | if not, then it will be "some bits of meego running in gpe running on gentoo running on htc" | 00:47 |
| thiago_home | MeeGo requires HW acceleration though | 00:48 |
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| ali1234 | i assume it is only the window manager that needsit? | 00:48 |
| sabayonuser | too many layers | 00:48 |
| thiago_home | it's not | 00:48 |
| w00t_ | ali1234: mcompositor needs it | 00:48 |
| w00t_ | (but it could do s/w rendering if someone wrote a backend for it) | 00:49 |
| thiago_home | apps make use of OpenGL too | 00:49 |
| ali1234 | what is mcompositor? | 00:49 |
| w00t_ | thiago_home: they have a -software flag, and it works | 00:49 |
| thiago_home | and without it, it's just too slow | 00:49 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 00:49 |
| w00t_ | and no, it isn't slow anymore | 00:49 |
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| thiago_home | it isn't? | 00:49 |
| thiago_home | well, on what hardware? | 00:49 |
| ali1234 | software rendering on 320x240 shouldn't be that slow | 00:49 |
| ali1234 | it's not like you need a huge fill rate | 00:49 |
| w00t_ | thiago_home: http://blog.rburchell.com/2010/04/every-time-you-scale-pixmap-god-kills.html | 00:49 |
| ScottishDuck | does the software mode use llvmpipe | 00:49 |
| w00t_ | 5 FPS to 170 FPS on my laptop, and that's a dual core | 00:50 |
| w00t_ | so I can only imagine that it's at least usable on something slower | 00:50 |
| thiago_home | well, it's 5 times less pixels | 00:50 |
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| w00t_ | (and that was before the tonnes of optimisation that has been thrown in over the past months, I should rebenchmark..) | 00:50 |
| thiago_home | ScottishDuck: no, just the Qt raster engine | 00:50 |
| w00t_ | speaking of rebenchmarking, argh, I need to go install Qt again | 00:51 |
| w00t_ | I hate OS reinstalls | 00:51 |
| ScottishDuck | I would have thought llvmpipe would be quite useful | 00:51 |
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| thiago_home | ScottishDuck: the raster engine is pretty good already, if you don't have something better than your CPU | 00:53 |
| w00t_ | thiago_home: it got a rather huge amount of work over 4.7 too, didn't it? | 00:53 |
| thiago_home | yeah, always | 00:54 |
| thiago_home | the SSSE3 improvements aren't in 4.7.0 though | 00:54 |
| sabayonuser | so nokiaN900 is another beast altogether? | 00:54 |
| thiago_home | sabayonuser: compared to what? | 00:55 |
| thiago_home | it's a TI OMAP3430 | 00:55 |
| sabayonuser | to other mobiles | 00:56 |
| ScottishDuck | Please be a little more specific | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | no, it's not a completely different beast | 00:56 |
| ScottishDuck | It's technically not a phone | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | there are similar devices on OMAP platforms | 00:56 |
| ScottishDuck | Nokia consider it to be an internet tablet that happens to make phone calls | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | ScottishDuck: no, it's a "mobile computer" | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | we don't call it tablet anymore | 00:57 |
| ScottishDuck | oh I see | 00:57 |
| ScottishDuck | :3 | 00:57 |
| chakie | w00t_: i'm not surprised (read your blog) | 00:57 |
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| ali1234 | ScottishDuck: yeah, most their customers didn't really agree... | 00:58 |
| ScottishDuck | The advertising was misleading | 00:58 |
| ali1234 | i use it in exactly the same way i used my old phone, which was WM | 00:58 |
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| arfoll | on the community OBS the 'go to repository' urls seem to be wrong - http://downloads.obs.maemo.org/home:/arfoll/MeeGo_current | 01:00 |
| arfoll | that's the link it gives me but it doesn\t exist | 01:00 |
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| arfoll | I had it working earlier today which is weird but of course I forgot how I got it.... | 01:00 |
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| sabayonuser | just saw moblin on LG on youtube.. wow | 01:05 |
| sabayonuser | 3D and all | 01:05 |
| sabayonuser | 1080 screen HD | 01:05 |
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| sabayonuser | LG is based on Intel's Moorestown | 01:06 |
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| sabayonuser | thanks folks.. have a good one | 01:10 |
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| wao | w/ 29 | 01:21 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:23 |
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| thiago_home | kmail locks up trying to decode that email from ryan... | 01:30 |
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| vgrade | arfoll, re rep links, I reported this to X-Fade but I think he had gone | 01:36 |
| vgrade | I managed to do a local build of a random package (uxlaunch) without the ssse3 and atom flags | 01:37 |
| vgrade | I'll put a writeup on the nonSSSE3 wiki page over the weekend | 01:41 |
| vgrade | night | 01:41 |
| vgrade | arjan you still on? | 01:42 |
| w00t_ | vgrade: nice | 01:42 |
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| ali1234 | vgrade: are you sure you didn't link any static libs into it? | 01:53 |
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| ali1234 | what i mean is, if you build *all* packages like that, can you be sure nothing static is ever linked in? | 01:58 |
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| arjan | vgrade: wassup? | 02:26 |
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| Phazorx | anybody home? | 03:38 |
| Tm_T | presumably most of us are at home | 03:39 |
| ScottishDuck | I'm certainly at home | 03:39 |
| ScottishDuck | or someones home | 03:39 |
| Phazorx | good | 03:40 |
| Phazorx | is there a proper solution for multiple dhcp based networks and resolv.conf being blanked on reboot? | 03:40 |
| Phazorx | that wast menat to be a show-stopper question actually | 03:44 |
| Phazorx | i sort of expected that it is a very common problem | 03:45 |
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| Phazorx | pretty much for any person who swiches netwrk between home and office - manualy editing resolv.conf each time is unlikely to be something that you want to do often | 03:46 |
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| ali1234 | if you use dhcp, why does it matter if dresolv.conf gets blanked? dhcp will just write a new one | 03:53 |
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| Phazorx | i wish it did | 03:58 |
| Phazorx | apparently at the moment it does not get the dns server via dhcp | 03:59 |
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| ali1234 | well... it's supposed to. have you checked the dhcp server actually sends it? | 04:00 |
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| ali1234 | http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3674 | 04:04 |
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| ali1234 | Phazorx: that could be your bug ^ | 04:05 |
| Phazorx | well sort of i guess | 04:06 |
| ali1234 | http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4818 | 04:07 |
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| Phazorx | my current issue is - a home when it connects the dhcp part works for everything but the dns | 04:08 |
| Phazorx | so i have to add dns manually | 04:08 |
| Phazorx | and i can make it stick if i have to | 04:08 |
| ali1234 | so it works on some dhcp server but not others? | 04:09 |
| Phazorx | but if i go somewhere else, where i dont know what the dns servers are, it is not an option | 04:09 |
| ali1234 | or it fails everywhere? | 04:09 |
| Phazorx | for me here it does not work for any | 04:09 |
| Phazorx | and if there would have been only one - you could create a sttic resol.conf and make it presist | 04:09 |
| Phazorx | because it is regenerated on every reboot at the moment | 04:10 |
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| ali1234 | presumably it is regenerated as an empty file every time dhcp asks for an address | 04:10 |
| Phazorx | it adds loopback there as far as i recall | 04:10 |
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| Phazorx | but i dont see it adding the dns server | 04:11 |
| ali1234 | well i think connman is supposed to run a dns proxy on localhost | 04:11 |
| Phazorx | does it work? | 04:11 |
| ali1234 | i dunno, but it does sound to me like you hit those bugs i linked | 04:12 |
| ali1234 | because if you put another dns server in resolv.conf you skip around the connman proxy, and that's where those bugs are located | 04:12 |
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| ali1234 | so in short, no it doesn't work properly, currently | 04:13 |
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| sofar | sorry, what doesn't work? | 04:13 |
| ali1234 | connman dns proxy | 04:13 |
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| ali1234 | according to http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4818 | 04:13 |
| sofar | on what image/installation? | 04:13 |
| ali1234 | idk, i'm not bug reporter | 04:14 |
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| UlfHofemeier | Hi | 04:55 |
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| vgrade | ali1234, my work with the build was to get familiar enough with the toolset. | 09:55 |
| vgrade | Good point about the static libs, I guess the order of building will be important | 09:56 |
| vgrade | I will post up my notes on the wiki | 09:56 |
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| vgrade | http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/nonSSSE3/POC | 10:14 |
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| swc|666 | rpm > deb | 10:17 |
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| messering_mob | just checking xchat on my n900. not too nice.. alternatives? | 10:30 |
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| Bostik | if pidgin has been built for it, that might work | 10:38 |
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| messering_mob | will check out pidgin, thanks | 10:49 |
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| Phazorx | connman seems to forget the wpa2 key i enter on reboot... is that fixable? | 11:56 |
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| Phazorx | could anybody help me with following this:http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=769&page=2 | 12:33 |
| Phazorx | how exactly i insert this? | 12:33 |
| Phazorx | http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=7163&postcount=15 i mean this suggestion specifically | 12:34 |
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| ilius | what damage is probable if i install meego on n900? | 13:48 |
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| ilius | only about battery life? | 13:48 |
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| thiago_home | ilius: and the battery itself, if you don't use the proper battery driver | 14:04 |
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| ilius | thiago_home: ok thanks | 14:05 |
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| thiago_home | if you drain the battery completely, the device won't boot in order to charge it | 14:06 |
| thiago_home | so you need battery to charge the battery | 14:06 |
| ilius | i'm not a embedded systems developer, and a desktop application developer (and i work with linux for about 3 years), i'm not sure wheather to install meego on my n900 | 14:07 |
| Aard | ilius: most likely not right now, there isn't that much to see | 14:08 |
| lcuk | ilius, to be fair, using the memory card install and merely running a kernel, you can boot meego without intefering with the working functionality of n900. and once you reboot maemo continues happily | 14:09 |
| ilius | Aard: :-( | 14:09 |
| ilius | lcuk: do you mean chroot install? | 14:10 |
| Aard | ilius: right now you get a somewhat working launcher, and a few demo applications you can't do anything with. so, unless you want to get more serious nothing you can't see in some videos (apart from "hey, it's on my device as well") | 14:11 |
| lcuk | ilius, no I dont actually, but thats as feasible | 14:11 |
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| lcuk | i believe | 14:11 |
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| ilius | Aard: lcuk: thanks | 14:13 |
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| Phazorx | could anybody help me with following this: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=7163&postcount=15 please... starting with gettin at-get working on meego | 14:22 |
| Phazorx | *apt-get | 14:22 |
| Aard | why do you need apt-get? | 14:23 |
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| thiago_home | Phazorx: start by not getting apt-get on meego | 14:23 |
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| Aard | apt4rpm was a nice hack for before there was stuff like yum | 14:24 |
| thiago_home | it worked fine, more than just a hack | 14:24 |
| thiago_home | reuse the APT logic, just give it an RPM backend | 14:24 |
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| Aard | yeah, but you don't need it anymore with stuff like yum in place per default | 14:24 |
| Phazorx | thiago_home: okay.. so how do i go about doing same thing w/o apt get? | 14:25 |
| thiago_home | or zypper, which is the recommended one now for MeeGo | 14:25 |
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| Phazorx | it's not like i really want apt-get... but since it is the suggested this way and i dont know any better - not like i have a choice | 14:26 |
| thiago_home | what are you trying to do? | 14:26 |
| Phazorx | get brightness controll and update xorg synaptics driver i guess | 14:27 |
| Macer | what is wrong with apt? | 14:27 |
| Phazorx | at least these are the issues visible to me | 14:27 |
| thiago_home | Macer: nothing | 14:27 |
| thiago_home | Macer: it's just not used by MeeGo | 14:28 |
| Phazorx | and it would be nice to be able to use ALL Fn+# hotkeys with the tools offered there too | 14:28 |
| thiago_home | Phazorx: ok, then use: zypper install <packagename> | 14:28 |
| Phazorx | thiago_home: and if the package is not there? | 14:28 |
| Macer | meego still working on the n900 modem etc? | 14:28 |
| thiago_home | Phazorx: then download the source and compile yourself | 14:29 |
| Aard | Macer: yes, don't expect any cellular functionality in the september release | 14:29 |
| Macer | Aard: where is the hadware status page? | 14:29 |
| Phazorx | thiago: i downloaded the source but i caon make sense out of it | 14:29 |
| Phazorx | the makefile as far as i can read it doesnt compile anything | 14:29 |
| thiago_home | Phazorx: read the README | 14:29 |
| Aard | Macer: no idea, I'm not on the hardware support team | 14:29 |
| Phazorx | there isnt any | 14:30 |
| Macer | i want meego to work with the n900 hardware already :( | 14:30 |
| thiago_home | Phazorx: then go back to the webpage you downloaded from. There must be instructions there. | 14:30 |
| Phazorx | thiago: yes, they are there | 14:30 |
| Phazorx | and they start with sudo apt-get | 14:30 |
| thiago_home | you're looking at the wrong instructions | 14:31 |
| thiago_home | those are instructions for Debian-based distributions | 14:31 |
| thiago_home | find the instructions for people using something else | 14:31 |
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| Phazorx | this is debian repository it is for debian based distros | 14:32 |
| Phazorx | k/ubuntu specifically | 14:32 |
| Aard | Phazorx: try to find the location of the upstream sources, with generic instructions | 14:32 |
| Phazorx | i tihnk authors do not really care about being generic | 14:32 |
| thiago_home | Phazorx: then do as Aard said | 14:32 |
| thiago_home | Phazorx: Debian, Ubuntu instructions are useless for you | 14:32 |
| thiago_home | find the upstream source | 14:32 |
| Phazorx | that presumes i know how to do that... which is not the case | 14:33 |
| thiago_home | then file a bug in bugs.meego.com and request that someone package the project for you | 14:33 |
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| Aard | Phazorx: which kernel version are you using on meego? | 14:40 |
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| Aard | Phazorx: the samsung-backlight-thing looks like a dirty hack based on samsung-laptop (which is in staging in recent kernels, and available as module on meego). proper way here would most likely be trying to merge the changes required to use the backlight on your notebook into samsung-laptop and use this one (if that hasn't happened already with 2.6.35) | 14:53 |
| Phazorx | Aard: sorry was submitting the bug :) | 14:53 |
| Phazorx | using 2.6.33.5-24.1-netbook | 14:54 |
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| Phazorx | how can i check if it has ben merged or not... and am i supposed to rebuild kernel myself or there is an official 2.6.35 out already? | 14:56 |
| Phazorx | i mean one i can pull down with zypper from meego | 14:56 |
| Aard | 2.6.35 is the one used for daily snapshots | 14:56 |
| Phazorx | i updated 2 days ago i think... and it didnt offer me 2.6.35 | 14:57 |
| Phazorx | actually i updated ~30 hours ago | 14:57 |
| Aard | yeah, you're probably using the latest released version (which, in your case, is the best option) | 14:58 |
| Phazorx | well it is 2.6.33 rather than 2.6.35 | 14:58 |
| Phazorx | and is there a how-to on module testing/sintlation | 14:59 |
| Phazorx | especially finding out if it actually has needed changes? | 14:59 |
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| Aard | does'nt look like anything has changed for 2.6.35 for samsung stuff | 15:04 |
| Phazorx | so... aside of submitting that bug ad waiting anything i can do in mean time? | 15:05 |
| Aard | you can try to compile and load that kernel module | 15:06 |
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| Phazorx | how do i go about fettching it 1st? | 15:07 |
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| Aard | I assume you know how do download stuff linked from a webpage? | 15:07 |
| Phazorx | ;) | 15:08 |
| Phazorx | i can do that | 15:08 |
| Phazorx | i even went as far as yumming make bison gcc etc | 15:08 |
| Aard | well, then just do that for the source tarball | 15:08 |
| Phazorx | so i actualy can even compile things on meeg now | 15:08 |
| Phazorx | dont i need all devel_sources for kernel managed properly too? | 15:08 |
| Aard | you'll need to install kernel-netbook-devel as well | 15:08 |
| Phazorx | yeah.. is there a magic update button that makes zypper take care of dependencies? | 15:09 |
| Aard | ? | 15:09 |
| Phazorx | i mean do i have to pull kernel sources and all manually from kernel.org | 15:10 |
| Phazorx | or zypper can do tha along with resolving possible dependencies? | 15:10 |
| Aard | kernel-netbook-devel is a meego package | 15:10 |
| Phazorx | good | 15:11 |
| Aard | unless you want to run your own kernel you shouldn't touch anything from kernel.org | 15:11 |
| Phazorx | i see it still is fetching 2.6.33 | 15:12 |
| Phazorx | my mirrors are off sync or something? | 15:12 |
| Aard | I told you a few times that 2.6.35 is the version in the development snapshots. you're running the latest stable version | 15:12 |
| Phazorx | and -devel is not going fro development? | 15:12 |
| Phazorx | perhaps there is a guide i can follow or at least read, that you can suggest | 15:13 |
| Aard | -devel packages are packages containing stuff needed for doing development, which have to match your installed packages | 15:13 |
| Phazorx | so i wont have to bug you with noobie questions due to desync terminology? :) | 15:13 |
| Aard | I'd love to, but I usually don't deal with unexperienced users anymore, so I have no idea where to point you to | 15:14 |
| Phazorx | heh you see i know how to manually do thing | 15:15 |
| Phazorx | i wont have any issues configuring kernel myself | 15:15 |
| Phazorx | but using tools that pretend to be smart to "go with the default way of distro doing thing" is something that i have to adjust | 15:16 |
| Aard | you won't need to do any kernel configuration, you just need to install the correct -devel packages, and compile the module against your current kernel | 15:16 |
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| rohitawasthi | hello | 15:17 |
| Phazorx | i understand that, what i am trying to get to is where between doing everything manually and clicking some magic button the middle ground where y question belongs right now | 15:17 |
| Phazorx | i dont know if it is zypper/yum that is supposed to fetch the packages and i just need the name of them followed by simple modprobe/insmod | 15:18 |
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| rohitawasthi | Will nokia replace symbian with meego from all of its smartphones ? | 15:18 |
| Phazorx | or i actualy have to do something closer to creating makefiles and tossing files into where they belong | 15:18 |
| Aard | Phazorx: you install the package I mentioned above. it should automatically pull in all other things you need for building | 15:19 |
| Aard | then you download the source tarball from the ubuntu site, unpack it, and hopefully find instructions in there to follow | 15:19 |
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| Phazorx | well i did dl the tarbal that they call source | 15:19 |
| Aard | after that you'll have a kernel module to insmod | 15:19 |
| Phazorx | and instructions arent there at all | 15:20 |
| Phazorx | neither there is a makefile that can actualy do anything usefull | 15:20 |
| Phazorx | which was the reason i originaly went here | 15:20 |
| Phazorx | looking if there is some tool that can adapt that is on that site to what meego wants to have | 15:20 |
| Phazorx | bcauase based on what i know - i dont have enough knowledge to do that manually | 15:21 |
| Aard | I just checked, there are proper makefiles in the source | 15:21 |
| Phazorx | have you looked inside of the makefile? | 15:21 |
| Aard | yes | 15:21 |
| Phazorx | and i am referring to https://launchpad.net/~voria/+archive/ppa/+files/samsung-backlight_0.13.2~ppa1~loms~lucid.tar.gz | 15:22 |
| Phazorx | perhaps i need to grab the other one | 15:22 |
| Aard | no, that's the right one | 15:22 |
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| Aard | there's a directory samsung_backlight-0.13.2, chdir into that, type make, and you should get your module | 15:23 |
| Phazorx | make gives me no targets | 15:23 |
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| Phazorx | and since grep gcc Makefile returns me nothing... i kinda unable to see how one can expect that makefile to compile anything | 15:24 |
| Phazorx | unless miss somthing i can only see how it copies stuff | 15:25 |
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| Aard | 15:23 < Aard> there's a directory samsung_backlight-0.13.2, chdir into that, type make, and you should get your module | 15:26 |
| ScottishDuck | there is a makefule there... | 15:26 |
| Phazorx | that makefile has 13 lines | 15:26 |
| Phazorx | the only target is install | 15:26 |
| Phazorx | and that copies things | 15:26 |
| CosmoHill | means it should work with make 3.82 ^.^ | 15:26 |
| Phazorx | i dont see any refrences to compiler or linker | 15:27 |
| Aard | Phazorx: would you please read and do what I'm telling you to do? | 15:27 |
| Phazorx | bah | 15:28 |
| Phazorx | okay ot it | 15:28 |
| Phazorx | very sorry | 15:28 |
| CosmoHill | nate@blue[1011]:~ $ tar xf samsung-backlight_0.13.2~ppa1~loms~lucid.tar.gz | 15:30 |
| CosmoHill | nate@blue[1013]:~ $ cd samsung-backlight-0.13.2~ppa1~loms~lucid | 15:31 |
| CosmoHill | nate@blue[1014]:~/samsung-backlight-0.13.2~ppa1~loms~lucid $ make install | 15:31 |
| CosmoHill | :) | 15:31 |
| Phazorx | CosmoHill: that's exactly what i been doing, but that was not what Aardtold me to do :) | 15:33 |
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| Phazorx | and make install still does nothing actually | 15:33 |
| Aard | Phazorx: don't care about install, try do build the module in the subdirectory | 15:33 |
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| Phazorx | Aard: yes, got it, thanks, was very stupid of me not to read to the end of the path | 15:34 |
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| Phazorx | Aard: related questions,anoter thing missing is multitouch support for the touchpad, there is a xorg module on same repo aimed to deal with that... however several other things have also been suggested on meego forums, such as dealing with xorg.conf overlay | 15:44 |
| Phazorx | i did ha, i see based on X.org.log that it reads the overlay, but it still unloads the module afterwards instead of using it | 15:44 |
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| Phazorx | is it somehwat incompatible module/driver issue or there is something else? | 15:44 |
| Phazorx | http://pastie.org/1090322 that's what the log looked like before overlay | 15:46 |
| Phazorx | now it looks very simlar, just more parsed options from .conf | 15:46 |
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| Aard | I have no idea, I'm only working on handset stuff where we have a very limited range of drivers (and usually others take care of them working properly) | 15:46 |
| Phazorx | i see, thanks anyway | 15:47 |
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| CosmoHill | Buy buy OpenSolaris .o/ | 15:53 |
| ScottishDuck | silly oracle | 15:53 |
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| mayo | hello, whoever is speaking Polish? | 17:07 |
| amjad | not me :) | 17:07 |
| mayo | So I will try with my broken English | 17:09 |
| amjad | ok | 17:09 |
| mayo | what sdk i should use to make handset meego apps | 17:11 |
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| mayo | nokia qt sdk or meego sdk? | 17:13 |
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| mayo | anyone help? | 17:16 |
| amjad | meego sdk for developing on meego | 17:16 |
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| mayo | but qt nokia sdk probably also allows you to create applications for Meego | 17:18 |
| mayo | So I did not know what to use | 17:19 |
| leinir | meego sdk | 17:20 |
| amjad | you are developing apps on which system | 17:20 |
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| amjad | http://wiki.meego.com/Hello_World_-_MeeGo_x86_development_on_Linux | 17:21 |
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| mayo | amjad: this tutorial is for handset too? | 17:23 |
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| amjad | yes | 17:27 |
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| amjad | Stskeeps: can i pm you?? | 18:53 |
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| Alex4108 | 𝑹𝑰𝑷𝑳𝑶𝑳𝑺𝑼𝑷𝑮𝑼𝒀𝑺 | 18:55 |
| Alex4108 | DCC SEND "startkeylogger" 0 0 0 | 18:55 |
| Alex4108 | :| | 18:55 |
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| CosmoHill | I think I speak for all of us when I say: "wtf?" | 19:00 |
| amjad | :) | 19:00 |
| CosmoHill | hahah | 19:04 |
| CosmoHill | freddy just tried to attack me but he's in his ball | 19:04 |
| vgrade | ok, so I have meego on my, netbook and Joggler, Nexus 1 next, http://www.android-devs.com/?p=152 | 19:05 |
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| vgrade | https://www.codeaurora.org/contribute/projects/xwinp/ | 19:06 |
| CosmoHill | google must love you | 19:07 |
| CosmoHill | or hire a hitman for you, I'm not sure | 19:08 |
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| GAN900 | vgrade, ah, I might finally find a use for the one from LFCS. | 19:19 |
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| vgrade | probably going to start with my ols T-Mo Pulse as I don't use this as my main phone ATM | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | amjad, sure but am low on battery | 19:23 |
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| ColdSun | hello, has anyone here tried using any applications off the portablelinuxapps web site? | 20:22 |
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| ColdSun | hello, has anyone here tried using any applications off the portablelinuxapps web site? | 21:37 |
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| CosmoHill | ColdSun: nope | 21:40 |
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| arfoll | I'm getting Errors when building my package in the community OBS, I don't get it because in my OBS the package builds without errors. Can I just switch them off? | 21:45 |
| arfoll | BuildRequires: -post-build-checks -rpmlint-Factory looks like my friend | 21:47 |
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| taljurf | can anybody give me the link to the meego release calendar | 22:23 |
| taljurf | i once found | 22:23 |
| taljurf | it | 22:23 |
| taljurf | but now i couldn't find it | 22:23 |
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| thiago_home | april, october | 22:26 |
| CosmoHill | just like ubuntu.... | 22:27 |
| CosmoHill | and openSolaris....oh wait... >.> | 22:27 |
| dm8tbr | CosmoHill: that's closedSolaris now | 22:28 |
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| sabotage | taljurf: maybe this is what you are looking for: http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1 | 22:36 |
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| arfoll | ok, does anyone know how to disable rpmlint in my project? | 22:51 |
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| trip0 | lbt, how's public obs? i've got time (and am ready) to start banging on it | 22:55 |
| lbt | OK ... the maemo one is running | 22:56 |
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| lbt | you have an account there already don't you? | 22:57 |
| lbt | I'll bbiab | 22:57 |
| trip0 | lbt, if forgot/lost my account :( | 23:04 |
| trip0 | lbt, it doesn't build for meego yet? | 23:04 |
| trip0 | hrm | 23:04 |
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| trip0 | well, maybe my maemo package will build on obs since it doesn't build on the autobuilder | 23:05 |
| CosmoHill | may I ask, why does meego use RPM instead of RPM5? | 23:06 |
| trip0 | what's the diff? | 23:07 |
| trip0 | is rpm5 newer? | 23:07 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 23:07 |
| trip0 | that's probably an arjan question | 23:07 |
| CosmoHill | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_Package_Manager#RPM_v5 | 23:08 |
| trip0 | hmm | 23:09 |
| Milhouse | also this: http://trainofthoughts.org/blog/2008/01/06/rpm5-vs-rpm/ | 23:09 |
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| CosmoHill | Milhouse: very interesting but white on black screwed up my eyes >.< | 23:14 |
| sofar | CosmoHill: back when we started moblin2, rpm5 was not stable | 23:17 |
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| CosmoHill | when was Moblin2 started? | 23:17 |
| sofar | not stable enough anyway | 23:17 |
| sofar | over 2 years ago | 23:17 |
| sofar | well over even | 23:17 |
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| sofar | I think rpm5 5.0.0 was just released | 23:18 |
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| sofar | so it was kind of a non-choice at the time | 23:19 |
| arjan | rpm5 is ... rather weird. | 23:19 |
| arjan | nobody is using it for a reason ;) | 23:19 |
| arjan | the history of rpm5 is long and personal | 23:19 |
| arjan | one of those "one of those days over a beer" kind of things | 23:19 |
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| ali1234 | seems like a pretty simple story to me | 23:21 |
| ali1234 | RPM5 is better than RPM (it couldn't be really worse) but red hat and suse don't use it, so it has zero exposure | 23:21 |
| sofar | well, that's the reason we never switched | 23:21 |
| arjan | "better" | 23:22 |
| sofar | the original choice for rpm4 was just based on the fact that rpm5 was barely released | 23:22 |
| arjan | sofar:not really. | 23:22 |
| arjan | even today I would not pick rpm5 | 23:22 |
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| arjan | if I had to make a new fresh pick | 23:22 |
| sofar | agreed | 23:22 |
| sofar | arjan: go code on powertop :P | 23:22 |
| lbt | arjan: clearly you'd pick deb ;) | 23:22 |
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| sofar | lbt: only after drinking too much absynth | 23:23 |
| * CosmoHill uses RPM5 but doesn't count as a major distro | 23:23 | |
| arjan | sofar: doing that too ;) | 23:23 |
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| lbt | sofar: at the moment jaegermeister is the sauna/packaging beverage of choice... | 23:24 |
| arjan | the p state stuff works great in powertop2 now | 23:24 |
| arjan | next is the wakeups | 23:24 |
| sofar | arjan: I knew it | 23:24 |
| arjan | btw anyone know how to use meego.gitorious behind a bloody firewall ? | 23:24 |
| * arjan needs to push autospectacle | 23:24 | |
| sofar | arjan: lol I do | 23:24 |
| arjan | but the current git tree is inside the intel firewall | 23:25 |
| lbt | arjan: you know how you have powertop to identify the apps that need power analysis. We could do with something to identify where ssse3 is needed. | 23:25 |
| sofar | but my NC setup is at work | 23:25 |
| arjan | lbt: that whole discussion on the list is surreal. | 23:25 |
| lbt | find a mechanism to minimise the work to provide a non-ssse3 solution somehow | 23:25 |
| arjan | people don't know what they are asking for | 23:25 |
| lbt | yeah... I tried so hard to point at the +/- es | 23:26 |
| arjan | or at least, don't know how to ask the right question | 23:26 |
| sofar | arjan: I can give you my setup monday morning in the office | 23:26 |
| lbt | it needs an answer though | 23:26 |
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| arjan | it seems some folks agree they don't want ssse3.... but they don't agree on what they want instead | 23:26 |
| lbt | we need anyone on any hardware to be able to get involved | 23:26 |
| krysis | hello world | 23:26 |
| arjan | lbt: even fedora cuts out a whole group of people | 23:27 |
| lbt | and by that I mean any commodity desktop | 23:27 |
| lbt | and that means AMD | 23:27 |
| lbt | :) | 23:27 |
| arjan | the line needs to be drawn somewhere | 23:27 |
| lbt | the elephant in the room | 23:27 |
| sofar | btw in case nobody noticed, this is auke | 23:27 |
| arjan | if AMD wants to donate build hardware ;-) | 23:27 |
| arjan | sofar: so nc is the way to go ? | 23:27 |
| lbt | actually, MeeGo should be providing the common base | 23:27 |
| sofar | arjan: yes | 23:27 |
| arjan | does that work for git:// ? | 23:27 |
| lbt | and Intel should optimise | 23:27 |
| sofar | it needs 2 wrapper scripts and a ssh config file | 23:27 |
| lbt | somehow | 23:27 |
| sofar | arjan: yes, for both git:// and ssh:// urls just fine | 23:28 |
| arjan | lbt: again nobody specified what the baseline they want is | 23:28 |
| ali1234 | instead of having two totally separate distros, one optimized and one not, why not just provide two versions of packages that actually need optimization? | 23:28 |
| arjan | lbt: and nobody has volunteered to pony up the hw | 23:28 |
| lbt | we have the community OBS | 23:28 |
| arjan | ali1234: that question cannot be answered unless you answer where you draw the baseline. | 23:28 |
| lbt | I'm working like buggery to get that up | 23:28 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/Installation | 23:28 |
| ali1234 | arjan: gcc -march=i686 | 23:29 |
| arjan | ali1234: wow that far back | 23:29 |
| ali1234 | yes | 23:29 |
| arjan | ali1234: then you'll have prolly 80% of the OS different | 23:29 |
| sofar | painful | 23:29 |
| arjan | anything using floating point | 23:29 |
| ali1234 | i find it difficult to understand why that is the case | 23:29 |
| sofar | someone needs to get a job so they can affoard a new system :) | 23:29 |
| arjan | because we use SSE for all floating point | 23:29 |
| arjan | and you're now cutting that off | 23:29 |
| lbt | one thing that's needed is to identify where ssse3 is used | 23:30 |
| arjan | even ali1234 and lbt have a different bar | 23:30 |
| ali1234 | and 80% of packages make heavy use of floating point? | 23:30 |
| lbt | arjan: that's facile | 23:30 |
| arjan | ali1234: you'd be surprised... all the UI stuff is full of it | 23:30 |
| sofar | all the ui scaling stuff | 23:30 |
| arjan | the low level OS.. a lot less so, I'll give you that | 23:31 |
| lbt | arjan: and that's a start | 23:31 |
| ali1234 | what about kernel, gcc, and libc? | 23:31 |
| lbt | identify the packages that need it | 23:31 |
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| arjan | ali1234: gcc and libc, yes | 23:31 |
| arjan | kernel no | 23:31 |
| ali1234 | ie what i would need to bootstrap the rest myself | 23:31 |
| lbt | ali1234: don't do that | 23:32 |
| ali1234 | ok then, what if we draw the line at sse2 then? | 23:32 |
| sofar | party? | 23:32 |
| sofar | I just ordered a grill | 23:32 |
| arjan | ohhh grill | 23:33 |
| * arjan ponders bringing the beer | 23:33 | |
| sofar | next weekend | 23:33 |
| sofar | the grapes are getting red btw | 23:33 |
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| arjan | oh well | 23:33 |
| * arjan gives up on gitorious | 23:34 | |
| trip0 | arjan, git-proxy? | 23:34 |
| arjan | trip0: if you have details on how to make it work.. by all means | 23:34 |
| sofar | GIT_PROXY_COMMAND | 23:34 |
| ali1234 | lbt: why shouldn't i bootstrap my own meego? | 23:34 |
| arjan | need to get autospectacle out | 23:34 |
| sofar | export, set it to ~/bin/git-proxy | 23:34 |
| sofar | git-proxy is a wrapper to nc | 23:35 |
| sofar | meego's nc works | 23:35 |
| arjan | so that all meego packagers can now autopackage their stuff instead of whining about packaging standards and how deb was easier ;) | 23:35 |
| sofar | test host name, and if it's internal don't use a proxy | 23:35 |
| lbt | ali1234: 'cos we have 3 16-core/24Gb RAM build servers you can collaborate with others on... ? | 23:35 |
| sofar | afk | 23:36 |
| ali1234 | who is "we" exactly? | 23:36 |
| bunk | ali1234: Why SSE2? SSE3 is supported by all recent desktop AMD CPUs. | 23:37 |
| ali1234 | cos i'm really confused about which parts of meego are community or not | 23:37 |
| lbt | ali1234: welcome to the club | 23:37 |
| lbt | MeeGo.com *is* the community | 23:37 |
| ali1234 | bunk: because i don;t see sse3 on list of things my amd chip supports :/ | 23:37 |
| lbt | but then there's the 2nd class community too. ;) | 23:37 |
| lbt | bunk: sssse3 ..... count the 's'es | 23:38 |
| bunk | ali1234: What CPU do you have? | 23:38 |
| ali1234 | bunk: phenom 2 (and i dont see sse3 OR ssse3) | 23:38 |
| lbt | intel/amd marketing clearly wanted this to be as obvious as possible | 23:38 |
| bunk | ali1234: phenom 2 supports SSE3 but not SSSE3 | 23:39 |
| trip0 | GIT_PROXY_COMMAND="/bin/nc.openbsd -x$PROXY:$PORT -X5 $*" | 23:39 |
| trip0 | arjan, that's what I use ^^ | 23:39 |
| trip0 | oh, also GIT_SSH | 23:39 |
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| bunk | ali1234: SSE3 is pni | 23:41 |
| arjan | PORT is 911 or 1080 ? | 23:41 |
| trip0 | 1080 | 23:41 |
| trip0 | i use "connect" for GIT_SSH | 23:42 |
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| trip0 | export GIT_SSH="`echo ~`/bin/socks-ssh" where socks-ssh is: ssh -o ProxyCommand="/home/tripzero/bin/socks-gw %h %p" $@ and socks-gw is /usr/bin/connect -S $PROXY:1080 $@ | 23:43 |
| trip0 | hmm, this could probably be simplified | 23:44 |
| arjan | success | 23:45 |
| * arjan pushes autospectacle | 23:45 | |
| arjan | oh the ssh stuff I have done in my .ssh/config | 23:45 |
| arjan | no need for git magic | 23:45 |
| arjan | all ssh/scp/etc stuff just works | 23:45 |
| trip0 | nice | 23:45 |
| trip0 | lbt: how will public obs work? will it sync packages with trunk? | 23:46 |
| lbt | yes | 23:46 |
| trip0 | no chance of "out-of-sync" issues? | 23:46 |
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| lbt | the main purpose is to build packages for MeeGo releases | 23:47 |
| lbt | not to build MeeGo | 23:47 |
| trip0 | ahk | 23:47 |
| lbt | it will sync with weekly snapshots to allow people to track building against meeg | 23:47 |
| trip0 | lbt, btw, you has pm ;) | 23:47 |
| lbt | o | 23:47 |
| arjan | lbt: sounds like the public obs would love autospectacle | 23:48 |
| trip0 | autospectacle will solve world hunger? | 23:48 |
| arjan | autospectacle creates a clean compliant rpm package based on just an URL to a tarbal | 23:48 |
| lbt | arjan: it should probably be a part of the app sdk | 23:48 |
| arjan | for many upstreams | 23:48 |
| lbt | and 'best practice' | 23:48 |
| trip0 | arjan, can that url be a git repo and a tag? | 23:48 |
| arjan | trip0: not currently | 23:48 |
| arjan | meego as distro does not accept git repo/tag combos only tarbals. | 23:49 |
| lbt | (so far) | 23:49 |
| arjan | and that's for a set of very good reasons | 23:49 |
| trip0 | with a tag it can make it's own tarball though | 23:49 |
| trip0 | git archive ftw | 23:49 |
| arjan | you can. | 23:49 |
| arjan | you shouldn't | 23:49 |
| lbt | a tarball == a tag | 23:49 |
| lbt | and indeed the OBS upstream are moving towards that | 23:49 |
| arjan | lbt: only in the absence of someone who tries to screw you over | 23:49 |
| arjan | so for meego we require the upstreams to make the tar, and preferably post a gpg signature too | 23:50 |
| * lbt prefers the guarantee of a sha1 hash to a "this tarball" | 23:50 | |
| arjan | lbt: which is "fun" until you have a different gzip | 23:50 |
| arjan | like the rsync friendly gzip... which causes the gzip'd stream to be different | 23:50 |
| lbt | ? | 23:50 |
| arjan | from people without the rsync friendly gzip | 23:50 |
| arjan | at which point you're not going to get an identical tarbal between machines | 23:50 |
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| lbt | you mean gzip -9 != gzip -1 ? | 23:51 |
| lbt | aswell | 23:51 |
| arjan | similar to that yes | 23:51 |
| smoku | lbt, is OBS working? | 23:51 |
| lbt | so no big deal really :) | 23:51 |
| arjan | but your gzip -9 != my gzip -9 | 23:51 |
| arjan | it just means you dont' get the same tarbal. | 23:51 |
| trip0 | hmm, i wonder if you can pgp sign a git tag... | 23:51 |
| lbt | after unzipping? | 23:51 |
| arjan | trip0: you can yes. | 23:51 |
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| arjan | but even then... we really require a tarbal. | 23:52 |
| lbt | gzip !lossless ? | 23:52 |
| arjan | and frankly, if your upstream can't make a tarbal they're lame | 23:52 |
| lbt | name calling ? pfft | 23:52 |
| trip0 | i am upstream, and i am lame :P | 23:52 |
| arjan | and if the upstream is intel affiliated I'll be happy to deal with it via the management chain ;-) | 23:52 |
| trip0 | err, s/lame/lazy | 23:52 |
| arjan | for an upstream to publish a tarbal is not hard... and gpg signing it is also not hard on top | 23:52 |
| trip0 | meh, git archive works | 23:53 |
| lbt | I applaud the "be clear about the release point" | 23:53 |
| arjan | trip0: so the upstream developer does git archive. no big deal. | 23:53 |
| trip0 | right | 23:53 |
| arjan | and then signs his tarbal | 23:53 |
| arjan | and uploads it | 23:53 |
| trip0 | just an extra step, not too big of a deal | 23:53 |
| arjan | and it solves a lot of issues on the other side | 23:53 |
| lbt | what do the extra stepa buy you over tags and a pgp signed sha1 ? | 23:53 |
| arjan | like... one place less where things can get trojaned | 23:53 |
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| arjan | lbt: more places where things can grow a trojan | 23:54 |
| lbt | pgp signed sha1 ? | 23:54 |
| arjan | we can (and will) auto verify tarbals in the distro against the uploaded gpg sigs | 23:54 |
| arjan | lbt: that does not give you anywthing | 23:54 |
| arjan | lbt: because that does not give you that the tarbal in the distro matches that sha1 sign | 23:54 |
| lbt | I'm not interested in the tarball.... I'm interested in the contents | 23:55 |
| arjan | I'm interested in both. | 23:55 |
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| arjan | because tarbal I can verify offline | 23:55 |
| arjan | the contents I cannot | 23:55 |
| arjan | the contents comes from the tarbal though, and that we build. | 23:55 |
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| lbt | so ship a signed tarball as MeeGo ? | 23:55 |
| arjan | lbt: yup thank you for agreeing that the upstream signs the tarbal ;-) | 23:56 |
| lbt | but why force your policy on others? | 23:56 |
| lbt | if upstream does sha1/git ? | 23:56 |
| lbt | then accept that | 23:56 |
| arjan | pretty much every upstream does tarbals | 23:56 |
| lbt | agreed... | 23:56 |
| lbt | OTOH we allow for evolution | 23:56 |
| arjan | and if the usptream is funded by intel or nokia I'll work hard to make sure they do tarbals too. | 23:56 |
| lbt | <cough> ssse3 | 23:57 |
| smoku | $ osc up | 23:57 |
| smoku | Certificate Verification Error: peer did not return certificate | 23:57 |
| lbt | tarball -> git | 23:57 |
| smoku | is this normal? | 23:57 |
| arjan | and if we have a choice between two packages, and one upstream does not do tarbals, we'll pick the other one, the one that does do tarbals | 23:57 |
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| lbt | that's seriously a criteria? | 23:57 |
| arjan | absolutely. | 23:57 |
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| lbt | mmm | 23:58 |
| arjan | if an upstream can't even do proper releases and some other one can do releases | 23:58 |
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| arjan | that absolutely is a pro for the one that can | 23:58 |
| lbt | *your* definition of a release | 23:58 |
| arjan | sure. | 23:58 |
| arjan | mine and many many other open source people | 23:58 |
| lbt | whereas a QA oriented fwd thinking team | 23:59 |
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| arjan | people expect tarbals from releases... for download | 23:59 |
| lbt | who appreciate incremental sha1 uploads to devs | 23:59 |
| lbt | and good bw characteristics | 23:59 |
| lbt | they're naff? | 23:59 |
| lbt | even if they have QA policies in place | 23:59 |
| lbt | good release processes | 23:59 |
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