| villev | no matches with that | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| timeless | food collected | 00:00 |
| villev | ok, 14 matches | 00:00 |
| villev | none of them froam real packages | 00:01 |
| villev | in repo.meego.com | 00:01 |
| timeless | time for one final round of frogger | 00:01 |
| timeless | ooh, a bus! | 00:01 |
| timeless | and two pedestrians | 00:02 |
| timeless | and a motorcycle crossing y sidewalk | 00:02 |
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| timeless | hrm | 00:03 |
| timeless | so, i know nothing about yaml files | 00:03 |
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| villev | well, I'd imagine them to reside inside src rpms | 00:04 |
| villev | but then again I know nothing of rpm packaging | 00:04 |
| timeless | are they typically included in srpms? | 00:04 |
| villev | Stskeeps: ? | 00:05 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:57 |
| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/freddy.avi | 00:57 |
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| CosmoHill | night ni...oh dammit | 00:57 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 02:48 |
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| ChildOfGod | I cloned meego-panel-people repo from http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-netbook-ux and made a few changes. How do I now build an rpm package out of it? Do I have to do it from scratch? There must be a simpler method to do it no? | 09:24 |
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| ChildOfGod | ok got it | 09:29 |
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| fabo | dl9pf_: ping | 10:02 |
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| kluoto | { | 10:29 |
| amjad | morning fellow meego users | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | morning amjad | 10:32 |
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| slaine | morning all | 10:41 |
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| amjad | morning slaine | 10:42 |
| Stskeeps | morn slaine | 10:42 |
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| Khertan | Morning everyone | 11:36 |
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| Stskeeps | how is qt wrt related to nokia wrt? :P (i'm wondering what WRT goes into meego now..) | 11:56 |
| Myrtti | moin | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | moin Myrtti | 11:58 |
| dl9pf_ | fabo: pong | 11:58 |
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| senwell_wu | Hi, everybody. could anyone tell me where can i get help about meego-handset-photo | 12:30 |
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| senwell_wu | Oh, god, please help this beginner of Qt, he is really depressed. | 12:37 |
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| Stskeeps | well, define help | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 12:40 |
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| lbt | senwell_wu: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/ then eg: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/index.html and http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/how-to-learn-qt.html | 12:49 |
| senwell_wu | thank you very very much! | 12:51 |
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| senwell_wu | I am trying to read the source code of meego-handset-photo | 12:56 |
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| senwell_wu | what is QtTracker? | 12:56 |
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| w00t_ | a library | 12:57 |
| w00t_ | hold on | 12:57 |
| * w00t_ wonders where the meego version of it is | 12:58 | |
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| w00t_ | http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/libqttracker - there's probably a meego version somewhere but I can't find it right now | 13:01 |
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| FunkyPenguin | need some advice please chaps & chapesses | 13:16 |
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| FunkyPenguin | if i try and log into MeeGo, what would cause the MeeGo panel to fail to load and drop me to a GNOME style panel? | 13:16 |
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| senwell_wu | Hi guys, thanks for your great help! I am moving on... | 13:42 |
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| eeemeego | hello! somebody knoews if i can install suse meego on my netbook? | 14:22 |
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| eeemeego | is there somebody? | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | there's a suse meego now? | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | url? | 14:25 |
| eeemeego | Stskeeps: yes i saw it on youtube... novell showed it and i know people that installed it but i don't know how they did ... | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | dunno either | 14:26 |
| eeemeego | and saint google tells me nothing :( | 14:26 |
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| eeemeego | Stskeeps: the thing is that i love meego, but i have lots of problems paying all my mp3 stuff... skype, dropbox, openoffice don't work on the official one that's the reason i'm very interested on the suse version | 14:28 |
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| Stskeeps | eeemeego: can imagine | 14:28 |
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| eeemeego | have you been able to make all that stuff work? | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | i don't use the netbook parrt | 14:28 |
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| eeemeego | ahhh ok | 14:29 |
| dl9pf_ | FunkyPenguin: customers | 14:29 |
| dl9pf_ | ;) | 14:29 |
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| eeemeego | but i imagine there's lots of people having the same problem as me... :S | 14:29 |
| eeemeego | but nobody tells anything | 14:29 |
| townxelliot | eeemeego: chrome (the browser) on meego plays mp3s, though not very conveniently; the free (as in beer) Fluendo codecs for mp3 used to work, too (haven't tried them recently) | 14:30 |
| dl9pf_ | eeemeego: FunkyPenguin: knows | 14:30 |
| eeemeego | so are you using this distro? | 14:31 |
| dl9pf_ | there's a project in the opensuse buildservice for that - i don't know if the cd's are already built | 14:32 |
| dl9pf_ | probably try this (no guarantee) http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Meego:/Netbook/images/iso/ | 14:33 |
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| eeemeego | i have found that page... but the livecd doesn't work ... http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Meego:/Netbook/images/iso/ | 14:34 |
| dl9pf_ | ok, thats all i know atm. FunkyPenguin might know more. | 14:34 |
| eeemeego | but he doesn't respond :S | 14:36 |
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| dl9pf_ | he'll show up later ... | 14:37 |
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| eeemeego | dl9pf_: so let me ask you something... if you had download this version (the one of the site you gave to me...) how would you do to burn it on a pendrive? | 14:39 |
| FunkyPenguin | eeemeego, sorry i was afk :) | 14:39 |
| FunkyPenguin | eeemeego, atm it doesnt work properly :( im almost there, just need to fix a gconf issue and work out why the panel doesnt load anymore | 14:40 |
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| eeemeego | FunkyPenguin: so are you developping it? | 14:40 |
| FunkyPenguin | dl9pf_, customers? my issue is either code or packaging issue | 14:40 |
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| dl9pf_ | FunkyPenguin: kidding | 14:41 |
| FunkyPenguin | eeemeego, im certainly packaging it - not doing much development though as im crap at any code :) | 14:41 |
| eeemeego | FunkyPenguin: ainsss so can y give you my email adress in order to know when i am being able to install it... i can't wait ... and as i said... the official meego don't works as i expected ... | 14:42 |
| eeemeego | *can i give.. | 14:42 |
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| eeemeego | sorry for my english :S i've been longtime without practicing it lol | 14:43 |
| FunkyPenguin | eeemeego, you can, but if you want to keep an eye on planet.opensuse.org it will be announced there :) | 14:43 |
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| eeemeego | FunkyPenguin: and do you thing it gonna be in longtime? | 14:46 |
| FunkyPenguin | eeemeego, i hope not - i was hoping to have it out yesterday | 14:46 |
| FunkyPenguin | things might be a little delayed due to oscon & guadec but im hoping not | 14:47 |
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| eeemeego | FunkyPenguin: ok so ill give you my email adrees on a private if you don't mind... cause im very very interested... can i? | 14:54 |
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| FunkyPenguin | anyone know what is wrong with my configure line for libsocialweb please? http://pastie.org/1053532 | 14:58 |
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| FunkyPenguin | for some reason im only getting digg and last.fm showing up | 14:59 |
| FunkyPenguin | i have the keys added into libsocialweb-keys | 14:59 |
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| wamills | lbt: I wanted to talk about the community OBS if you have a min | 16:25 |
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| lbt | wamills: sure | 16:25 |
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| wamills | I don't think I am the user profile you are look at for beta testers as I only have a little OBS use. I have setup a home project at OpenSUSE's instance and built a rpm based and .deb based package | 16:29 |
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| lbt | fair enough... | 16:30 |
| wamills | However if your game I would like to try the community OBS. I was thinking I would start with creating a package for MLO the low level bootloader for beagleboard | 16:30 |
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| wamills | Are home projects support? | 16:32 |
| lbt | yes | 16:32 |
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| wamills | Do you think this is a doable experiment for my skill level? | 16:34 |
| drizztbsd | hi, is there any working meego 1.1 image for n900? | 16:34 |
| drizztbsd | i created it with the moblin-image-creator, but it doesn't work | 16:34 |
| drizztbsd | waiting for root device /dev/mmcblk0p1... and it reboots :P | 16:35 |
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| lbt | wamills: sure... I msg'ed you | 16:35 |
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| Stskeeps | drizztbsd: put your back cover on | 16:37 |
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| drizztbsd | Stskeeps: done | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | wamills: dbus is hosed in trunk atm though | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | err | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | drizztbsd: | 16:38 |
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| drizztbsd | ah ok, i will waiting | 16:38 |
| wamills | Stskeeps: Thanks. Should not effect this effort as MLO only needs the compilation tools | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, was for drizztbsd :) | 16:41 |
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| Stskeeps | the reason why it's hosed is cos of a armv7 optimization bug in armv5, so it might affect MLO build ;) | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | er, in gcc | 16:41 |
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| lbt | does anyone know how MeeGo is packaging python eggs? | 16:44 |
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| Stskeeps | spectacle and setup.py maybe? | 16:49 |
| Stskeeps | there's a Builder: python thing | 16:49 |
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| Khertan | spectable ? | 16:51 |
| Khertan | spectacle ? | 16:51 |
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| Stskeeps | it's a nice tool that, once you discover the secret to actually using it, builds spec files for you | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:52 |
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| Khertan | ah ... as from what i see there is already something building spec file for you on the community obs | 16:52 |
| Khertan | https://build.obs.maemo.org/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=khteditor&project=home%3Akhertan%3AKhtEditor&repository=MeeGo_current | 16:53 |
| Khertan | but now i read logs :) | 16:53 |
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| Khertan | error: line 10: Unknown tag: %py_requires | 16:53 |
| Khertan | python is present from what i see (2.6) | 16:53 |
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| Khertan | ok i think this happen because i didn't have any require in my setup.py | 16:55 |
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| Khertan | things seems missing | 17:00 |
| Khertan | https://build.obs.maemo.org/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=khteditor&project=home%3Akhertan%3AKhtEditor&repository=MeeGo_current | 17:00 |
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| Stskeeps | wb dawn | 18:43 |
| DawnFoster | hey stskeeps | 18:43 |
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| Termana | good morning DawnFoster | 18:44 |
| DawnFoster | hi termana | 18:45 |
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| DawnFoster | i'll be dropping on / offline all day today (at OSCON on flaky connections) | 18:45 |
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| Stskeeps | ah, have fun :) | 18:45 |
| DawnFoster | i will! | 18:46 |
| DawnFoster | Dirk is giving a keynote on meego in about an hour | 18:46 |
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| Maemoboi | whats the big news for N900? | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | erm, how would we know | 19:10 |
| ScottishDuck | ? | 19:10 |
| ScottishDuck | What news | 19:11 |
| ScottishDuck | Am I missing something | 19:11 |
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| Maemoboi | they said big news for n900 on nokia conversations | 19:11 |
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| Stskeeps | we're a open source project seperate from nokia, we don't know what it is either :) | 19:12 |
| Maemoboi | maybe meego on n900? | 19:12 |
| Maemoboi | ha? | 19:12 |
| frals | cant see anything about "big news" and "n900" on nokconv | 19:12 |
| Maemoboi | no? | 19:12 |
| w00t_ | Maemoboi: again.. the people here don't know | 19:13 |
| w00t_ | we're developers, not marketers | 19:13 |
| trip0 | link? | 19:13 |
| frals | you are probably looking for #maemo for general n900 chat anyway :) | 19:13 |
| Maemoboi | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58884 | 19:13 |
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| trip0 | "exciting news..." | 19:14 |
| trip0 | hmm | 19:14 |
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| ScottishDuck | Now you can all buy a new phone! | 19:15 |
| ScottishDuck | that will be the news | 19:15 |
| ScottishDuck | :) | 19:15 |
| trip0 | lol | 19:15 |
| trip0 | indeed | 19:15 |
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| Maemoboi | the arrogance of this so called community is amazing....good luck winning with Android and Apple....you're in deep shit pals | 19:16 |
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| trip0 | arrogance? why thank you | 19:18 |
| ScottishDuck | Maemoboi: I'm only seeing one arrogant twat here | 19:18 |
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| * trip0 wonders who it is... I haven't seen any | 19:20 | |
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| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: you're doing the equivialent of walking into an android channel asking about samsung android phone news | 19:21 |
| TSCHAKeee | and people wonder why I hate the human race | 19:22 |
| lcuk | eh? he came in with some n900 news and asked if it meant meego on n900 | 19:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P | 19:22 |
| * lcuk shudders | 19:22 | |
| lcuk | how is that arrogant or offtopic or anything bad? | 19:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | why would we know? | 19:22 |
| ScottishDuck | We already have meego on n900 | 19:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's not like nokia tells us anything | 19:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P :) | 19:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | and yes, we do....about as good as it's running anywhere else | 19:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 19:22 |
| lcuk | Maemoboi, i dunno what extra they may be talking of, but mypaint is awesome! | 19:23 |
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| ScottishDuck | It's already leaked that it's (probably) a firmware update | 19:23 |
| ScottishDuck | or at least software of some kind | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | in july? fat chance | 19:23 |
| * TSCHAKeee says this knowing that somewhere buried in the bowels of a company, someone is differentiating the handset UX :P | 19:23 | |
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| Myrtti | CHEESECAKE | 19:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | activity on the bug tracker doesn't...really...suggest it would be a firmware update | 19:24 |
| ScottishDuck | http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8110/screenshot00.png | 19:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | if it were, it'd be a teeny one | 19:24 |
| ScottishDuck | http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9017/screenshot02aw.png | 19:24 |
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| Myrtti | what does all this have to do with MeeGo? | 19:24 |
| ScottishDuck | nothing | 19:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | so it's a Mer... update? ;) | 19:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | (KIDDING) | 19:25 |
| Myrtti | oh look, it's a PLANE!? | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: 0.18 is ALIVE | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | haaa | 19:26 |
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| Maemoboi | to all the smartasses out there let me ask you a simple question: isnt meego part of nokia???? isnt N900 part of nokia???? Why would you pals think asking about meeo on n900 is stupid??? | 19:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | Mer 0.18 (Code Name: Dawn of the Dead) | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: no, it is not part of nokia | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | meego is officially a linux foundation project where intel, nokia etc are contributors like any other. | 19:26 |
| * lcuk facepalms | 19:27 | |
| trip0 | i know what the news is | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: there exists a port of meego for n900, under development, but it exists | 19:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | Maemoboi: the MeeGo port to the N900 is a community led effort, for the most part, | 19:27 |
| trip0 | nokia will renew their bugs.maemo ssl cert | 19:27 |
| trip0 | :P | 19:27 |
| ScottishDuck | maybe nokia will look at bugs.maemo | 19:27 |
| trip0 | haha | 19:27 |
| ScottishDuck | that would be a big one | 19:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | hahhaha | 19:27 |
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| trip0 | Maemoboi, nobody said it was "stupid" they just said you may have better results asking the same question in #maemo | 19:28 |
| trip0 | since it's more n900 focussed | 19:28 |
| Maemoboi | get off your high horses pals... you got some catching up to do,,, i wouldnt concentrate on bashing people that come to you in good faith | 19:29 |
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| ScottishDuck | haha oh wow | 19:29 |
| trip0 | hmm | 19:29 |
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| ScottishDuck | I think he's trolling | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: i said 'how would we know', we're not at all involved with nokia marketing :) | 19:29 |
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| Stskeeps | (except over some beers once in a while) | 19:29 |
| ScottishDuck | Don't feed the troll | 19:29 |
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| Khertan | Question ... someone know if there is any third party repository on Meego | 19:30 |
| Khertan | ? | 19:30 |
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| Maemoboi | troll???? | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: that's what the community OBS should facilitate | 19:30 |
| Khertan | at least one with pyqt4 binding ? | 19:30 |
| trip0 | Maemoboi, your question was valid. but we just don't know the answer. | 19:30 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, yes i know, i mean right now ... | 19:30 |
| Khertan | :) | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: there's so many things in meego there's not 'right now' :P | 19:31 |
| Maemoboi | trip0: ok...thank you | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | let me check what's there | 19:31 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, yep ... but i didn't know if it here or not ... so i just ask, didn't request :) | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: i'm looking around for it | 19:31 |
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| Khertan | (the purpose is to test KhtEditor on a meego netbook) | 19:32 |
| Khertan | thx Stskeeps | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: i think best thing to do is get it packaged and ask to have it included somehow | 19:32 |
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| lcuk | Maemoboi, have you installed mypaint? | 19:33 |
| Maemoboi | lcuk: no, not much of a painter | 19:33 |
| lcuk | me neither lol | 19:33 |
| Maemoboi | but why would that be big news? | 19:33 |
| lcuk | just curious since you linked to that article | 19:33 |
| Myrtti | why is that ip address familiar | 19:34 |
| Maemoboi | whats the big news for N900 | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | Myrtti: ah, nice catch | 19:34 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: np | 19:34 |
| Myrtti | Brampton dude again | 19:34 |
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| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: we don't know, go ask in the relevant forum threads or where it got suggested (conversations.nokia.com) :) | 19:35 |
| lcuk | Myrtti, which | 19:36 |
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| Khertan | i think best thing to do is get it packaged <<< the hard thing :) | 19:39 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps, i think best thing to do is get it packaged <<< the hard thing :) | 19:39 |
| Maemoboi | i was banned from #maemo because i expressed my opinion and the fanboys got their knickers wet | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | no, you got banned because of persistent trolling, changing identities and ban evasion. you have a new chance here, don't screw it up. | 19:41 |
| Maemoboi | Stskeeps: how do you know? did you ban me? | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | seems so, after agreement with other operators | 19:43 |
| Maemoboi | that's not nice | 19:43 |
| ScottishDuck | Maemoboy: You can ask #ps3 when Halo Reach is out | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | probably not, but so it goes | 19:44 |
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| trip0 | Stskeeps is not to be trifled with | 19:45 |
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| trip0 | and calling people arrogant isn't nice either ;) | 19:46 |
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| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: this is a different setting however, so, please behave and feel free to read more about MeeGo at www.meego.com | 19:47 |
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| achipa | http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/21/fcam-unleashed-for-the-nokia-n900/ | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | that's it? | 19:47 |
| achipa | dunno | 19:47 |
| achipa | but it is on conversations and it is for the N900 | 19:48 |
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| achipa | and it's even exciting.. in a geeky way... but certainly not going the cause for an all-out party | 19:48 |
| lcuk | achipa, X-Fade was talking about it a bit this morning, looks cool and am gonna test it later when i get phone unpacked | 19:49 |
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| pinchartl | achipa: fcam is interesting, but they should have contacted the driver developers before releasing something based on a deprecated driver API :-( | 19:50 |
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| Maemoboi | here it is peeps: fucken disappointment http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/21/fcam-unleashed-for-the-nokia-n900/ | 19:56 |
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| microlith | I suppose that's a measure of what exactly you were expecting | 19:58 |
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| Myrtti | Maemoboi: why the abusive language? | 19:59 |
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| Maemoboi | whut? | 20:06 |
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| Myrtti | just wondering... | 20:13 |
| w00t_ | evening, thiago_home :-) | 20:14 |
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| Maemoboi | may I ask a question? | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | always | 21:03 |
| Maemoboi | with meego still so far away what are you guys discussing here? | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | getting meego there? we develop it and participate in the community around it? | 21:04 |
| Maemoboi | when will devices show up on the market? | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | whenever someone takes it, makes it into a end-user ready product and ships it | 21:05 |
| Maemoboi | meaning Nokia right? | 21:05 |
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| Stskeeps | remember, this is the meego open source project, there will be companies shipping things based on MeeGo, such as nokia, SuSE, acer, linpus, .. etc | 21:05 |
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| Maemoboi | i see | 21:06 |
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| Stskeeps | we don't have anything directly to do with what nokia would ship on any device, except than providing the platform | 21:06 |
| Maemoboi | so when will you guys make meego available for N900? or is that somebody else? | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: it is already available, but it is very in progress | 21:07 |
| Maemoboi | yes....very limited and bare bones | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtQsOb6mO0A | 21:07 |
| Maemoboi | ok | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | it is kinda meant to be, because the interesting things is what vendors take and put on top | 21:07 |
| AstralStorm | kind of like android in that | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | like nokia would add ovi maps, flash player, etc and have that for their devices | 21:08 |
| Maemoboi | right | 21:08 |
| Maemoboi | so you guys here are not Nokia's employees or agents? | 21:08 |
| AstralStorm | maybe a few are, most aren't | 21:09 |
| AstralStorm | and Meego is I think Intel's brainchild anyway | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | some might be nokia employees, some might be intel guys, some might be people interested, some might be other companies working with meego.. | 21:09 |
| Maemoboi | i see | 21:09 |
| Maemoboi | so then.... | 21:09 |
| Khertan | oh dropbox for n900 | 21:09 |
| Khertan | oups ww | 21:09 |
| AstralStorm | so then I want Dell Streak in Poland. ;) | 21:09 |
| Maemoboi | what is the next big step or milestone for meego? | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: meego 1.1, october | 21:10 |
| AstralStorm | Maemoboi: I suppose "working on cellphones" | 21:10 |
| AstralStorm | heh | 21:10 |
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| Maemoboi | ok | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: requirements/features can be seen on bugs.maemo.org (search for FEA, not complete yet) and exact release plans on wiki.meego.com, release engineering's plans | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | it's a public project, or well, supposed to be | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | as boring as that can be at times :) | 21:10 |
| GAN900 | maemo.org? | 21:11 |
| AstralStorm | I wonder why flash isn't the default though | 21:11 |
| Maemoboi | so nokia is a lot of resources into meego right? making maemo obsolote | 21:11 |
| AstralStorm | and has to be put in by vendors | 21:11 |
| AstralStorm | Maemoboi: hmmm, some | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: er, point | 21:11 |
| GAN900 | Maemoboi, pretty much. | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: i mean bugs.meego.com | 21:11 |
| AstralStorm | not yet obsolete, but kind-of morphed into Meego | 21:11 |
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| Maemoboi | ok | 21:11 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, MeeGo leveraging something from maemo.org would be too outlandish. :) | 21:11 |
| ScottishDuck | I can't say Nokia is contributing very much to meego n900 | 21:11 |
| AstralStorm | Nokia should take its linux more seriously anyway | 21:11 |
| AstralStorm | ;) | 21:11 |
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| Stskeeps | ScottishDuck: uhm.. what makes you say that? | 21:12 |
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| ScottishDuck | They just provide drivers | 21:12 |
| Maemoboi | so why then... and i know this has nothing to do with you guys....why does nokia continue to manufacture and sell n900? | 21:12 |
| ScottishDuck | Their focus is future devices with meego | 21:12 |
| AstralStorm | because it sells? that's a dumb question | 21:12 |
| AstralStorm | better ask them why they continue to manufacture and sell Symbian phones | 21:12 |
| AstralStorm | ;p | 21:12 |
| Maemoboi | i know it sells but is it not misleading customers? | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | ScottishDuck: well, hardware adaptation wise, drivers are all we need (and QA) | 21:13 |
| AstralStorm | Maemoboi: no | 21:13 |
| AstralStorm | Maemo 5 works right now | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | ScottishDuck: rest is platform stuff and nokia is involved there | 21:13 |
| AstralStorm | it will be possible to cleanly replace that with Meego | 21:13 |
| AstralStorm | in some soon future | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: because maemo5 isn't dead as such, fwiw | 21:14 |
| ScottishDuck | On that note, do you guys think meego will be feature complete for the planned beta? (Mid-august I think) | 21:14 |
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| silver_hook | Hullo. | 21:14 |
| Stskeeps | lo silver_hook | 21:14 |
| Stskeeps | ScottishDuck: that's a good question. | 21:15 |
| AstralStorm | ScottishDuck: which features do you have in mind? "works" feature? :) | 21:15 |
| ScottishDuck | I mean what most beta's mean, planned features implemented, not stable | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | ScottishDuck: i'm personally wondering if we will be feature ready in terms of hardware adaptation by october | 21:15 |
| silver_hook | Just read the other day that Nokia will switch to Android for its smartphones. What's the future of MeeGo then? | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | so it turns into maintaining patches in upstream kernel and modules in frameworks | 21:15 |
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| Stskeeps | silver_hook: yeah, you'll have to find a source for that because that is not what we're hearing.. | 21:16 |
| ScottishDuck | silver_hook: lolno | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | silver_hook: so i think you've been reading some misinformation :) | 21:16 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: FUD, that's what it is | 21:16 |
| AstralStorm | Nokia said they *won't* be using Android. | 21:16 |
| Maemoboi | nokia seems very disorganized these days....too many damn operating systems | 21:17 |
| silver_hook | http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2010/07/20/nokias-choice-is-dead-obvious-go-android/ | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | silver_hook: i think that's speculation | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | Maemoboi: symbian and meego | 21:17 |
| ljp | ermm.. Nokia is not moving to android | 21:17 |
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| GAN900 | Maemoboi, 3? | 21:18 |
| b-man | that article is a lie lol | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | silver_hook: going to android would actually be a step back if you look at it from a technical angle | 21:18 |
| AstralStorm | Maemoboi: yes, two. Symbian should die. | 21:18 |
| ljp | Maemoboi: different systems for different phones. | 21:18 |
| silver_hook | Stskeeps: That's why I'm wondering O_o | 21:18 |
| GAN900 | S40, Symbian, Maemo/MeeGo | 21:18 |
| AstralStorm | S40 = Symbian | 21:18 |
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| GAN900 | No it doesn't | 21:18 |
| AstralStorm | old, but still | 21:18 |
| ljp | s4 is not symbian | 21:18 |
| AstralStorm | yes it is Symbian | 21:18 |
| GAN900 | S40 is NokiaOS. | 21:18 |
| ljp | s40 | 21:18 |
| GAN900 | No, it's not. | 21:18 |
| AstralStorm | oh it is old version of symbian | 21:19 |
| AstralStorm | whatever | 21:19 |
| b-man | lol | 21:19 |
| AstralStorm | it should die too | 21:19 |
| ljp | not anold version | 21:19 |
| silver_hook | I'd rather see a MeeGo phone in my hands which I can use without having to jailbreak it (yes, you have to jailbreak Android as well :P) | 21:19 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: no, you don't have to jailbreak, haha | 21:19 |
| AstralStorm | you have to sign the app with the devel key | 21:19 |
| AstralStorm | that's all | 21:19 |
| ScottishDuck | silver_hook: you have to root it | 21:19 |
| ScottishDuck | which is rarely very hard | 21:19 |
| AstralStorm | root it *if you want to replace the whole of the OS* | 21:20 |
| silver_hook | AstralStorm, ScottishDuck: Rooting it effectively jailbreaking, isn't it? | 21:20 |
| AstralStorm | nope | 21:20 |
| ScottishDuck | no | 21:20 |
| AstralStorm | it's far easier | 21:20 |
| silver_hook | In both cases the warranty's void though :P | 21:20 |
| AstralStorm | not | 21:20 |
| GAN900 | "Rooting" MeeGo or Maemo isn't vaguely related to rooting android. | 21:20 |
| AstralStorm | rooted phone can be fixed by a reflash | 21:20 |
| ScottishDuck | Rooting maemo = sudo gainroot | 21:20 |
| silver_hook | Well, obviously 'sudo' is not the same as flashing the firmware :P | 21:20 |
| AstralStorm | so voiding warranty by this would be moronic | 21:20 |
| GAN900 | silver_hook, no, getting root access does not void your warrantly. | 21:20 |
| GAN900 | s/ly// | 21:21 |
| infobot | GAN900 meant: silver_hook, no, getting root access does not void your warrant. | 21:21 |
| GAN900 | Oops | 21:21 |
| b-man | LOL | 21:21 |
| AstralStorm | now, jailbreak needs to disable a TPM chip | 21:21 |
| silver_hook | GAN900: Rooting the *Android* voids the warranty. That's my point. | 21:21 |
| AstralStorm | now that damages hardware | 21:21 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: no. | 21:21 |
| silver_hook | AstralStorm: Last time I checked, it does. You sure? | 21:21 |
| AstralStorm | it shouldn't touch the hardware ever at all | 21:21 |
| AstralStorm | so, it shouldn't void the warranty | 21:22 |
| AstralStorm | unlike the jailbreak | 21:22 |
| Kray | series 40 has nothing to do with symbian btw | 21:22 |
| AstralStorm | Kray: whatever, it should die too | 21:22 |
| AstralStorm | heheh | 21:22 |
| silver_hook | AstralStorm: I read the warranty ...and, yea, it *shouldn't*, but it *does* state so in it :P | 21:22 |
| silver_hook | Yeah, it's stupid. | 21:22 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: I'd throw away the phone if it did | 21:22 |
| Kray | AstralStorm: actually, it is excellent OS for low-end phones | 21:22 |
| AstralStorm | go petition the stupid salesman | 21:22 |
| AstralStorm | Kray: uhm... | 21:22 |
| silver_hook | Plus Android is not nearly as open as MeeGo :] | 21:23 |
| AstralStorm | Linux is an excellent OS for low-end phones too | 21:23 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: oh yes it is just as open | 21:23 |
| AstralStorm | but it uses a bit exotic software | 21:23 |
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| silver_hook | Anyway, sorry. I didn't want to start a flame war. Just wanted to check some rumours that I found scarry. | 21:23 |
| trip0 | Android is as open as meego? | 21:23 |
| AstralStorm | trip0: yes, all the sources are available | 21:23 |
| Kray | I'm now meaning someone who needs to call, send sms and want nice ringtones as target for low-end phones | 21:23 |
| AstralStorm | Kray: doable with Linux easily too | 21:24 |
| trip0 | AstralStorm, are the android 2.3 sources available? | 21:24 |
| AstralStorm | even trimmed down meego | 21:24 |
| AstralStorm | trip0: 2.3 is available? | 21:24 |
| AstralStorm | I heard 2.2 was just released | 21:24 |
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| trip0 | not until google opens it, no ;) | 21:24 |
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| AstralStorm | the devel repositories are all there | 21:24 |
| Kray | AstralStorm: meego needs more from hardware | 21:24 |
| AstralStorm | mostly on googlecode | 21:24 |
| AstralStorm | Kray: hmm, no. | 21:24 |
| Kray | and it is more complicated | 21:24 |
| AstralStorm | just support from Linux and graphics chip | 21:24 |
| silver_hook | AstralStorm: No they're not. | 21:25 |
| AstralStorm | but it's not geared to the small screens | 21:25 |
| AstralStorm | so it'd need adaptations | 21:25 |
| Kray | AstralStorm: I bet you haven't used s40 phone | 21:25 |
| AstralStorm | I did, I think | 21:25 |
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| trip0 | also, being open is more than just having open code. to me it's means transparent development also | 21:25 |
| AstralStorm | trip0: well, it is... kind of transparent | 21:25 |
| ScottishDuck | trip0: that's an opinion | 21:26 |
| AstralStorm | the mailing lists are public, so are the code repos | 21:26 |
| trip0 | AstralStorm, not really. nobody saw Froyo's code until it was released | 21:26 |
| AstralStorm | that most of it is done by google is another matter | 21:26 |
| AstralStorm | trip0: they were looking poorly | 21:26 |
| ScottishDuck | the fact is that open source has no impact on the openness of development | 21:26 |
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| AstralStorm | because only the UI drop was done at the last moment | 21:26 |
| lcuk | trip0, many OSS projects are developed using Cathederal model | 21:26 |
| Kray | with opera mihi my nokia expressmusic 5130 was excellent phone, i only missed multitasking | 21:26 |
| AstralStorm | (for a real reason, haha) | 21:26 |
| silver_hook | AFAIK *all* the code in Android is neither FOSS nor freely available for reuse. | 21:26 |
| ScottishDuck | no | 21:26 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: all the code is FOSS and freely available | 21:26 |
| ScottishDuck | it's all FOSS, except for some drivers | 21:27 |
| AstralStorm | the drivers might not be, but that's not really Android | 21:27 |
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| ScottishDuck | The only issue with android is that google don't send patches upstream | 21:27 |
| AstralStorm | so-so | 21:27 |
| lcuk | userland apps aren't distributable in android either are they | 21:27 |
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| AstralStorm | they are the upstream here | 21:27 |
| AstralStorm | lcuk: they are. | 21:27 |
| lcuk | didnt someone get in trouble for cloning entire android tree | 21:27 |
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| AstralStorm | yes, due to trademark violation | 21:27 |
| AstralStorm | hahaha | 21:27 |
| lcuk | so isnt that some kind of blocker for openness | 21:28 |
| trip0 | you mean that android does open development? | 21:28 |
| trip0 | of all its stuff? | 21:28 |
| ScottishDuck | no | 21:28 |
| AstralStorm | nope, you could rebuild the apps, change the names, here you have your FakeDroid | 21:28 |
| silver_hook | Naah, CryogenMod got into trouble for including Google's proprietary code as well, which was packed together with the Android OS. | 21:29 |
| AstralStorm | exactly | 21:29 |
| AstralStorm | most of this "code" was actually UI | 21:29 |
| AstralStorm | and a few propietary drivers | 21:29 |
| silver_hook | I'd say though that an OS where drivers are closed, cannot be really called fully open. | 21:29 |
| ScottishDuck | silver_hook: you're not allowed to redistribute firefox either | 21:29 |
| trip0 | AstralStorm, It is assumed by many that OEMs shipped 2.1 phones even after 2.2 was released because noone was able to look at the code up until the day it was released. | 21:29 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: find me a fully open OS then, that's not Debian | 21:29 |
| ScottishDuck | freeBSD | 21:30 |
| ScottishDuck | :3 | 21:30 |
| AstralStorm | trip0: wrong assumption | 21:30 |
| AstralStorm | trip0: it just went a bit late in the dev cycle, not enough time for integration and testing | 21:30 |
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| silver_hook | ScottishDuck: You're allowed to, if you don't *call* it Firefox and change the icon. | 21:30 |
| silver_hook | Debian is a distribution. Distro != OS. | 21:30 |
| ScottishDuck | That's pretty much the issue with android | 21:30 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: ok, Debian GNU/Linux. fine now? | 21:30 |
| AstralStorm | ;p | 21:30 |
| ScottishDuck | wrong, silver_hook | 21:30 |
| ScottishDuck | debian is the OS | 21:31 |
| ScottishDuck | linux is the kernel | 21:31 |
| silver_hook | Distro > OS. | 21:31 |
| AstralStorm | there's Debian GNU/Mach | 21:31 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: wrong ffs. | 21:31 |
| AstralStorm | distribution of an operating system dummy | 21:31 |
| AstralStorm | that's why it's called a distro | 21:31 |
| ScottishDuck | Astral, don't forget Debian GNU/hurd :3 | 21:31 |
| silver_hook | Otherwise GNewSense, Gentoo with the right $LICENSE variable etc. | 21:31 |
| AstralStorm | ScottishDuck: oh yes, that. | 21:31 |
| * sandsmark runs Arch KDE/Linux | 21:32 | |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: yes, those are operating systems too | 21:32 |
| sandsmark | or busybox/linux? | 21:32 |
| ScottishDuck | Astral storm, I'm actually working on a project to replace GNU code with LLVM in linux | 21:32 |
| AstralStorm | distributions of a GNU/Linux-based operating system specifically | 21:32 |
| silver_hook | I wouldn't call office packages and games a part of an OS, would you? | 21:32 |
| ScottishDuck | could prove to be quite significant when it's done | 21:32 |
| AstralStorm | ScottishDuck: hahaha, great. that's a hard job | 21:32 |
| AstralStorm | if it works at all | 21:32 |
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| AstralStorm | silver_hook: they are. | 21:32 |
| ScottishDuck | AstralStorm: It needs to be done | 21:32 |
| AstralStorm | Windows has those. | 21:32 |
| ScottishDuck | GPLv3 is a mess | 21:32 |
| silver_hook | Bollocks. | 21:32 |
| sandsmark | gplv3 is just dandy | 21:33 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: do you call Windows something else than an OS? | 21:33 |
| silver_hook | ScottishDuck: Check out EUPL for cleanliness ;) | 21:33 |
| AstralStorm | GPLv3 is just anti-lock-in anti-DRM | 21:33 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: not all device manufacturers like that | 21:33 |
| AstralStorm | yup | 21:33 |
| sandsmark | :-P | 21:33 |
| silver_hook | AstralStorm: I do, but even MS doesn't sell its Office as part of Windows ;) | 21:33 |
| ScottishDuck | GPLv3 is forcing freedom | 21:33 |
| sandsmark | obviously | 21:33 |
| ScottishDuck | and that's not how freedom works | 21:33 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: as is GPLv2 | 21:33 |
| sandsmark | and GPLv1 | 21:33 |
| AstralStorm | silver_hook: yes, but they could if not for anti-monopolist charges | 21:33 |
| AstralStorm | ScottishDuck: GPL is forcing freedom. Go BSD! ;p | 21:34 |
| ScottishDuck | GPLv3 is much more militant | 21:34 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: that's kind of the point of free software | 21:34 |
| silver_hook | AstralStorm: Naaah. | 21:34 |
| AstralStorm | </end-of-flame> | 21:34 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: not really | 21:34 |
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| microlith | ScottishDuck: it's not forcing freedom (lol), it's placing a requirement of freedom on your software | 21:34 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: just taking care of edge cases | 21:34 |
| silver_hook | EOF | 21:34 |
| microlith | you are entirely free to not touch GPL software | 21:34 |
| ScottishDuck | AstralStorm: LLVM/Linux is under BSD :) | 21:34 |
| sandsmark | microlith: my mom forces me :( | 21:34 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: no | 21:34 |
| AstralStorm | ScottishDuck: you mean using broken software | 21:34 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: Linux is GPLv2 :-P | 21:34 |
| ScottishDuck | microlith: just like people are free to not use Windows | 21:34 |
| AstralStorm | and I bet LLVM/Linux can't use 95% of Linux drivers | 21:34 |
| sandsmark | whatever compiler you use doesn't factor in | 21:34 |
| AstralStorm | because they're GPL | 21:35 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: and I guess you're still using glibc? | 21:35 |
| ScottishDuck | no | 21:35 |
| AstralStorm | uclibc | 21:35 |
| AstralStorm | or newlibc | 21:35 |
| sandsmark | hehe | 21:35 |
| sandsmark | sounds like fun :-P | 21:35 |
| silver_hook | Anyway, thanks for commenting the rumours :] | 21:35 |
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| silver_hook | ...and sorry again about the flame war | 21:36 |
| sandsmark | oh, about non-free software in android? | 21:36 |
| sandsmark | there's several large parts | 21:36 |
| AstralStorm | yeah, we need ice wars instead | 21:36 |
| sandsmark | like the package manager | 21:36 |
| ScottishDuck | My main issue with GNU code is that it's just plain bad | 21:36 |
| AstralStorm | nope, it's open | 21:36 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: can you give me the source? :-) | 21:36 |
| ScottishDuck | Buggy, Bloated, full of legacy stuff | 21:36 |
| AstralStorm | what's not open are the keys in it | 21:36 |
| sandsmark | uhm, no | 21:36 |
| AstralStorm | ScottishDuck: lol wha... try FreeBSD code | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | well, at least it's not like in symbian: http://www.symbiandevco.org/home | 21:36 |
| sandsmark | not last I checked | 21:36 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: you mean xpk, right? | 21:37 |
| sandsmark | no | 21:37 |
| AstralStorm | what then? that's their package manager | 21:37 |
| AstralStorm | or do you mean the UI? | 21:37 |
| sandsmark | the android market thingy | 21:37 |
| AstralStorm | oh no no | 21:37 |
| AstralStorm | market is a service, not a package manager | 21:37 |
| AstralStorm | it isn't really part of the Android | 21:38 |
| sandsmark | heh, market isn't part of android? | 21:38 |
| sandsmark | that was quite a statement :-P | 21:38 |
| AstralStorm | it isn't. it's on Google servers | 21:38 |
| sandsmark | and it has an application part too | 21:38 |
| sandsmark | which is unfree | 21:38 |
| AstralStorm | yes, the UI. | 21:38 |
| lcuk | how do you get the apps on the android without the market? inport up its shiney metal ass? | 21:38 |
| ScottishDuck | Android is essentially just Linux with the Dalvik VM on top | 21:38 |
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| sandsmark | it's arguably the most important part of android | 21:38 |
| AstralStorm | exactly | 21:38 |
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| AstralStorm | ScottishDuck: ^ | 21:38 |
| Kray | gnu code is mature, tested and reliable | 21:39 |
| AstralStorm | lcuk: yes, something like that | 21:39 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: well, dalvik, with the world's worst garbage collector :-P | 21:39 |
| AstralStorm | you need a root | 21:39 |
| sandsmark | and shitty JIT | 21:39 |
| AstralStorm | then use xpk | 21:39 |
| ScottishDuck | Kray: yes GCC 4.5 is just wonderful | 21:39 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: fast JIT actually | 21:39 |
| ScottishDuck | oh wait | 21:39 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: not really | 21:39 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: compared to other implementations | 21:39 |
| AstralStorm | write a better one, then you can criticize it | 21:39 |
| lcuk | AstralStorm, there goes the user friendlyness - at least we have HAM | 21:39 |
| sandsmark | it's very bad | 21:39 |
| AstralStorm | which ones? | 21:39 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: why should I? | 21:39 |
| sandsmark | Sun's? | 21:39 |
| ScottishDuck | HAHAHAHAH | 21:39 |
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| AstralStorm | lcuk: sure, the user-friendly part is the market | 21:39 |
| AstralStorm | of course, feel free to write the nice package manager | 21:39 |
| ScottishDuck | Firstly, you mean oracle | 21:40 |
| ScottishDuck | secondly, no | 21:40 |
| ScottishDuck | just... no | 21:40 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: that's the point of free software | 21:40 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: sun wrote it | 21:40 |
| sandsmark | oracle just recently bought it :-P | 21:40 |
| AstralStorm | doesn't matter | 21:40 |
| AstralStorm | it sucks | 21:40 |
| ScottishDuck | It's oracle property | 21:40 |
| AstralStorm | no, it really does. | 21:40 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: "just write" windows ce! | 21:40 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: ok | 21:40 |
| lcuk | AstralStorm, thats the point, if it was an open license the existing one could be used to build an even better one ontop of | 21:40 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: you obviously don't know what you are talking about | 21:40 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: no, never, such broken software is beneath me | 21:40 |
| lcuk | if thats not possible, then what is the point in open source | 21:40 |
| AstralStorm | lcuk: it *is* the open licence | 21:40 |
| lcuk | "standing on the shoulders of giants" | 21:41 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: it's a more open platform than android | 21:41 |
| sandsmark | lcuk: google doesn't believe in open source | 21:41 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: ... which ones? for cellphones, please. | 21:41 |
| sandsmark | lcuk: they just use it when it's cheap :-P | 21:41 |
| AstralStorm | meego isn't done | 21:41 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: hmm? | 21:41 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: any microsoft OS is more open | 21:41 |
| AstralStorm | LOL | 21:41 |
| ScottishDuck | 0/10 | 21:41 |
| AstralStorm | now you've made my day | 21:41 |
| ScottishDuck | you're a terrible troll | 21:41 |
| sandsmark | … | 21:41 |
| AstralStorm | get me Windows kernel source code | 21:41 |
| AstralStorm | NOW. | 21:41 |
| AstralStorm | esp. Windows CE | 21:42 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: I can write applications in C++ that runs on all Microsoft's platforms | 21:42 |
| sandsmark | and on linux | 21:42 |
| AstralStorm | I want to fix a bunch of damned bugs | 21:42 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: why would I need that? | 21:42 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: and what does it make? nothing | 21:42 |
| lcuk | AstralStorm, actually, that has been posted somewhere - it breaks all sorts of rules but its tehre | 21:42 |
| AstralStorm | lcuk: :) | 21:42 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: there are more app developers than kernel developers out there | 21:42 |
| AstralStorm | told you | 21:42 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: I want to write a bunch of drivers | 21:42 |
| trip0 | i think he means open platform vs open source | 21:42 |
| * lcuk read about the leak in slashdot years ago | 21:42 | |
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| sandsmark | AstralStorm: and you can't give me the source code of the kernel running on any android phones either | 21:42 |
| AstralStorm | oh, SDK is under M$ EULA, not a free licence | 21:42 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: so fuck android :_P | 21:42 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: I can | 21:42 |
| ScottishDuck | lcuk: I believe there are custom kernels for CE that let you run XP apps | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | it's available | 21:43 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: so is the android SDK | 21:43 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: no | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | want it? | 21:43 |
| sandsmark | yes | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | what I can't give you, is the code for some drivers | 21:43 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: you're so full of bullshit :-P | 21:43 |
| ScottishDuck | http://android.git.kernel.org/ | 21:43 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: so you admit it isn't open | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: ^ | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | that one | 21:43 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: that's not running on any phones | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | first hit on google | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | yes it is | 21:43 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: that's useless | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | so, stfu | 21:43 |
| sandsmark | no | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | how come "no" | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | it is. | 21:43 |
| ScottishDuck | oh please enlighten us | 21:43 |
| AstralStorm | prove otherwise. | 21:43 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: ... | 21:43 |
| sandsmark | cell phone developers start with that | 21:44 |
| ScottishDuck | ... is not an argument | 21:44 |
| AstralStorm | and write drivers. | 21:44 |
| sandsmark | yes | 21:44 |
| AstralStorm | drivers that AREN'T part of the kernel | 21:44 |
| AstralStorm | so, hoot | 21:44 |
| sandsmark | a kernel is arguably just a collection of drivers | 21:44 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: ... | 21:44 |
| AstralStorm | no lol | 21:44 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: it's a monolithic kernel | 21:44 |
| DawnFoster | let's try to keep the language clean, please | 21:44 |
| AstralStorm | not even Windows which is a microkernel | 21:44 |
| sandsmark | it isn't? | 21:44 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: no, Linux has been modular since about 1993 | 21:44 |
| sandsmark | it's a hybrid | 21:44 |
| trip0 | Windows is a hybrid kernel fyi | 21:44 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: no | 21:44 |
| trip0 | which is just a monolithic kernel really | 21:44 |
| sandsmark | yes | 21:45 |
| ScottishDuck | AstralStorm: It's a hybrid kernel | 21:45 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: it's still a completely monolithic kernel | 21:45 |
| ScottishDuck | still essentially a monolith | 21:45 |
| sandsmark | with loadable modules | 21:45 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: say hi to my .ko | 21:45 |
| AstralStorm | to be exact, yes | 21:45 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: … | 21:45 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: doesn't matter at all | 21:45 |
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| AstralStorm | yo ucan load a driver? yes. | 21:45 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: please, take an introductory course to computer science | 21:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | oh christ | 21:45 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: that is not what defines a microkernel | 21:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | not this idiotic discussion | 21:45 |
| trip0 | let's drop it | 21:45 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: that's what defines "not part of the kernel" | 21:45 |
| sandsmark | android is far from free | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | i vote for beer. | 21:45 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark is far from a good troll | 21:45 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: does the kernel run on the devices without them? | 21:46 |
| AstralStorm | :) | 21:46 |
| AstralStorm | yes. | 21:46 |
| sandsmark | erh, no | 21:46 |
| ScottishDuck | sandsmark: your the guy who thinks a UI is related to the kernel | 21:46 |
| sandsmark | it was a rhetorical question :-P | 21:46 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: *you're | 21:46 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: it friggin DOES. | 21:46 |
| ScottishDuck | lol u mad | 21:46 |
| TSCHAKeee | microkernels were an academic foray into subsystem abstraction | 21:46 |
| AstralStorm | on a slow framebuffer, but yes | 21:46 |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: and windows has moved the graphical subsystem into ring0 | 21:46 |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: and moved it back out of it | 21:46 |
| AstralStorm | because that exploded | 21:46 |
| AstralStorm | :) | 21:46 |
| sandsmark | uhm, no | 21:46 |
| AstralStorm | yup, that's Aero for you | 21:47 |
| ScottishDuck | sandsmark: didn't realize windows was linux based now | 21:47 |
| sandsmark | AstralStorm: you've been wrong about everything you've said | 21:47 |
| sandsmark | just give up | 21:47 |
| * jausmus thinks this conversation has strayed a little far from the topic at hand - namely MeeGo... | 21:47 | |
| sandsmark | ScottishDuck: windows also has a kernel | 21:47 |
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| AstralStorm | sandsmark: prove me wrong, I can drop you MSDN docs. | 21:47 |
| TSCHAKeee | what the hell happened? | 21:47 |
| *** Unmenschlich has quit IRC | 21:47 | |
| AstralStorm | sandsmark: want them? | 21:47 |
| * sandsmark puts up an /ignore | 21:47 | |
| ScottishDuck | sandsmark: but your point was completely unrelated to the LINUX kernel | 21:47 |
| sandsmark | /ignores for the ignorant | 21:47 |
| AstralStorm | good, he'll shut up | 21:47 |
| ScottishDuck | protip: being ignorant is ignoring | 21:47 |
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| TSCHAKeee | wow wtf | 21:47 |
| * AstralStorm ignored him too, because he doesn't want to talk either way | 21:48 | |
| * trip0 sings a song | 21:48 | |
| TSCHAKeee | this whole shitstorm has been going on for a few minutes | 21:48 |
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| AstralStorm | trip0: great | 21:48 |
| AstralStorm | TSCHAKeee: actually not, it has started fairly nice | 21:48 |
| *** Maemoboi has joined #meego | 21:48 | |
| AstralStorm | and not by this "person" | 21:48 |
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| ScottishDuck | I get pissed off by people who think Android isn't open | 21:49 |
| ScottishDuck | They should get their head out of stallmans ass | 21:49 |
| sandsmark | android SDK isn't open: http://developer.android.com/sdk/terms.html | 21:49 |
| AstralStorm | or start to open M$ Windows code | 21:49 |
| AstralStorm | hahaha | 21:49 |
| sandsmark | uglier eula than the microsoft SDK | 21:49 |
| ScottishDuck | sdk is not the os | 21:49 |
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| ScottishDuck | There is no terms on the git hub | 21:49 |
| AstralStorm | even SDK isn't open, it's EULA'd | 21:49 |
| AstralStorm | ScottishDuck: there are, LICENSE file. GPL. | 21:50 |
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| ScottishDuck | OH NO | 21:50 |
| AstralStorm | or some BSD. | 21:50 |
| ScottishDuck | :) | 21:50 |
| Kray | luckily eulas are not legally valid in EU | 21:50 |
| ScottishDuck | Google probably use GPLv2+ or BSD | 21:50 |
| AstralStorm | some bits are Google licence | 21:50 |
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| ScottishDuck | As with all things open source, companies steer well clear of v3 | 21:51 |
| trip0 | when google maps/nav is open, android will be | 21:51 |
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| AstralStorm | trip0: that's a service | 21:51 |
| trip0 | or the mail app | 21:51 |
| AstralStorm | mail is a service too | 21:51 |
| AstralStorm | feel free to replace these parts | 21:51 |
| trip0 | not the app that talks to the service | 21:51 |
| AstralStorm | meh, that's UI really | 21:51 |
| AstralStorm | you can rewrite this on a free time | 21:51 |
| sandsmark | trip0: or, you know, they allow people to actually change the software that is running on their devices | 21:52 |
| ScottishDuck | Android is the core, the core is open | 21:52 |
| ScottishDuck | Same with meego | 21:52 |
| ScottishDuck | The core is open | 21:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | it amazes me how programmers dismiss UI as something trivial | 21:52 |
| ScottishDuck | people can bastardise it and make it closed | 21:52 |
| trip0 | ScottishDuck, the mail app in meego is open (or will be) | 21:52 |
| AstralStorm | TSCHAKeee: actually it's a really dumb UI | 21:52 |
| trip0 | and it can talk to gmail | 21:52 |
| AstralStorm | it's more of a webpage | 21:52 |
| AstralStorm | there's another android mail app btw | 21:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | developers should really spend a bit more time thinking how users will actually use the software they create. | 21:53 |
| AstralStorm | TSCHAKeee: oh yes | 21:53 |
| ScottishDuck | TSCHAKeee: Heuristics are a big part of Computer Science now | 21:53 |
| ScottishDuck | people still ultimately ignore it though | 21:53 |
| TSCHAKeee | I am a polymath, software developer is one of the things i do, but i am also an an artist... | 21:54 |
| trip0 | i think we can agree that if you have closed apps as a part of the core OS, then the OS isn't completely core | 21:54 |
| trip0 | s/core/open | 21:54 |
| AstralStorm | nice, see how the troll got ejected? :D | 21:54 |
| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: considering that most use their own applications, they probably do :-P | 21:54 |
| AstralStorm | uhm | 21:54 |
| AstralStorm | those are user apps | 21:54 |
| AstralStorm | they're completely optional | 21:54 |
| sandsmark | trip0: well, I haven't seen any serious people say that Android is completely open | 21:54 |
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| AstralStorm | what's the hard part is those few closed drivers | 21:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | newsflash, we're not completely open either, yet. | 21:55 |
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| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: everything in userspace is open | 21:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | for the reason AstralStorm says | 21:55 |
| sandsmark | unlike Android | 21:55 |
| trip0 | TSCHAKeee, meego isn't completely open? | 21:55 |
| trip0 | are there parts of meego that are closed? | 21:55 |
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| TSCHAKeee | trip0: look at the n900 port of meego as an example | 21:55 |
| sandsmark | binary blobs in the kernel | 21:55 |
| TSCHAKeee | trip0: and there are UX'es under development that haven't been code dropped.. the tablet UX for example. | 21:55 |
| trip0 | TSCHAKeee, those n900 bits aren't a part of meego iirc | 21:56 |
| ScottishDuck | sandsmark: meego devices will almost certainly have binary blobs in the kernel | 21:56 |
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| TSCHAKeee | every meego and android device | 21:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | will be a combination of open and closed parts | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | well, compliance might help some things | 21:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | even the openmoko had closed bits for gsm and gps | 21:56 |
| sandsmark | trip0: nokia is working on resolving the licensing issues, though, AFAIK? | 21:56 |
| TSCHAKeee | for gta01, gta02, gta03 etc. | 21:56 |
| ScottishDuck | sandsmark: never going to happen | 21:56 |
| trip0 | TSCHAKeee, my point is, the core apps will be open. | 21:57 |
| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: because of the FTC requirement, iirc? | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | ScottishDuck: imgtec's the toughest one | 21:57 |
| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: but the important part is the userspace, imho | 21:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | sandsmark: among other things. | 21:57 |
| ScottishDuck | sandsmark: what is closed in android userspace | 21:57 |
| sandsmark | as long as android doesn't have a completely open userspace (and google refuses to work with upstream), it's useless, imho | 21:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | arguing over this point is ultimately meaningless | 21:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | it really is, fellas. | 21:57 |
| sandsmark | and does more damage than good to the open device ecosystem | 21:57 |
| lcuk | ScottishDuck, that was thrashed out ages ago - maps appstore thingy and a few other bits | 21:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | the decisions are being made a few notches above your pay grade. | 21:58 |
| sandsmark | yeah | 21:58 |
| ScottishDuck | lcuk: maps appstore, not userspace | 21:58 |
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| trip0 | sandsmark, android is completely useless to me because android does very little to improve the overall open source ecosystem | 21:58 |
| lcuk | how do users use them if they arent in userspace? | 21:58 |
| sandsmark | trip0: yeah | 21:58 |
| ScottishDuck | lcuk: I consider userspace as root terminal | 21:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | the only way to deal with closed components, is to write open equivalents | 21:58 |
| ScottishDuck | everything about that is abstraction | 21:58 |
| ScottishDuck | above* | 21:58 |
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| sandsmark | lcuk: userspace == not in the kernel | 21:59 |
| lcuk | sure | 21:59 |
| lcuk | so is mapping in the kernel? | 21:59 |
| lcuk | and appstore? | 21:59 |
| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: exactly | 21:59 |
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| sandsmark | no | 21:59 |
| trip0 | TSCHAKeee, iirc, it's not possible to write an open nav client that uses google services | 21:59 |
| sandsmark | lcuk: they are userspace applications | 21:59 |
| sandsmark | trip0: that would kind of ruin it for google, wouldn't it? :-) | 21:59 |
| sandsmark | providing everyone access | 21:59 |
| trip0 | yep | 21:59 |
| AstralStorm | trip0: it is possible to write a limited one | 22:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | trip0: it's over the wire, anything is possible | 22:00 |
| ScottishDuck | lcuk, sandsmark: I believe you are referring to userland | 22:00 |
| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: not feasible | 22:00 |
| AstralStorm | TSCHAKeee: no, some of those Google APIs are propietary | 22:00 |
| ScottishDuck | Not userspace | 22:00 |
| sandsmark | I think is a better word | 22:00 |
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| TSCHAKeee | somebody in our community donated a chunk of code that dealt with windows media services | 22:00 |
| trip0 | TSCHAKeee, it's against google's TOS to use their mapping api's with navigation | 22:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | specifically those that get cover art and metadata for DVDs and CDs | 22:00 |
| trip0 | so it's not legally possible | 22:00 |
| AstralStorm | exactly | 22:00 |
| lcuk | i believe this topic has gone round and round and theres lots of bikeshedding and tree pissing going on now | 22:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | by reverse engineering the protocol | 22:00 |
| AstralStorm | trip0: still, who tells you to use google services | 22:00 |
| AstralStorm | use Nokia's Ovi or something | 22:01 |
| trip0 | AstralStorm, can't | 22:01 |
| AstralStorm | ... | 22:01 |
| trip0 | it requires a key | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | keep in mind, that the key to all this is the GIS content | 22:01 |
| trip0 | which you can't open | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | which, btw, you can purchase | 22:01 |
| AstralStorm | trip0: ah, you want free? go make your own service then | 22:01 |
| trip0 | same with most services | 22:01 |
| AstralStorm | and make it free | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | so if someone wants to purchase licenses to teh data | 22:01 |
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| TSCHAKeee | and build a non profit umbrella | 22:01 |
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| TSCHAKeee | to make the data publically available | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | go for it | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's all out there. | 22:01 |
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| sandsmark | hehe | 22:01 |
| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: we need more money | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | schedulesdirect did this with Tribune Media's data | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | to provide listings | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | when zap2it closed their labs. | 22:02 |
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| sandsmark | neat | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | they negotiated a fair price | 22:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | for the licensing | 22:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | based on the projected # of users | 22:03 |
| ScottishDuck | I don't ever understand why some people are so against closed source stuff | 22:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | and now I get listings for $20 a year | 22:03 |
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| TSCHAKeee | I understand ONE argument against closed source software | 22:04 |
| slonopotamus | ScottishDuck: because it provokes piracy? :) | 22:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | the inability to fix problems when found, if you're not the people who developed the softwatre. | 22:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | anything else is really philosophical rhetoric | 22:04 |
| sandsmark | eh, if one doesn't have a problem with closed source software, why not just use the iPhone? | 22:04 |
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| ScottishDuck | TSCHAKeee: I get that, what I don't get are the Stallman-ites who are crying at the idea a developer wants to keep their code to themselves | 22:04 |
| ScottishDuck | sandsmark: I own one | 22:04 |
| AstralStorm | TSCHAKeee: so the source can be open, but the service can be sold | 22:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | well, in my case, I prefer hardware that's at least partially open, and Apple treats their customers with utmost contempt while pretending they respect them. | 22:05 |
| lcuk | ScottishDuck, i would not be so against it if more companies took vodafones recent stance - they killed off closedsource map application, but now theres murmerings and startings to open the codebase up fully :) | 22:05 |
| AstralStorm | is that clear? :) | 22:05 |
| lcuk | so closed + supported apps == ok, but when they get to EOL, open them | 22:05 |
| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: apple makes some of the best closed software there is, though | 22:05 |
| CosmoHill | lcuk oo | 22:05 |
| ScottishDuck | lcuk: I would agree with that | 22:05 |
| AstralStorm | yup, that's fine too | 22:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | sandsmark: for a good chunk of it, i agree. | 22:06 |
| lcuk | supported == developers working on them and helping the users | 22:06 |
| CosmoHill | Warzone did that | 22:06 |
| AstralStorm | I'd like to see those Windows 95 sources and have a good laugh | 22:06 |
| TSCHAKeee | sandsmark: it gives me something to shoot for, competitively when i design software. | 22:06 |
| sandsmark | indeed | 22:06 |
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| CosmoHill | before the company went pop they release their game's source code | 22:06 |
| ScottishDuck | Also it should be noted that a large proportion of OSX is FOSS | 22:06 |
| AstralStorm | hmm, 70% | 22:06 |
| ScottishDuck | that is large :) | 22:06 |
| sandsmark | they focus on the vaguely defined term "polish", which makes for good selling products | 22:06 |
| CosmoHill | / #define Windows 3.1 | 22:06 |
| CosmoHill | #define Windows 95 | 22:06 |
| AstralStorm | unfortunately, not what matters, the Cocoa | 22:06 |
| ScottishDuck | Apple also contribute a lot to FOSS projects | 22:07 |
| CosmoHill | that was meant to be two slashes | 22:07 |
| ScottishDuck | donations, all that good stuff | 22:07 |
| AstralStorm | yup | 22:07 |
| AstralStorm | they're fairly ok there | 22:07 |
| ScottishDuck | giving llvm and libgcd to freebsd | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | we also got LLVM from Apple's compiler team | 22:07 |
| AstralStorm | their marketing is questionable | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | which... | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | LLVM is absolutely fucking fantastic | 22:07 |
| AstralStorm | and the hardware | 22:07 |
| AstralStorm | not the software | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee | and the main dev (David Chisnall) is a freaking compiler god | 22:07 |
| ScottishDuck | TSCHAKeee: Couldn't agree more | 22:07 |
| ScottishDuck | It WILL superseed GCC | 22:08 |
| ScottishDuck | no douby | 22:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah | 22:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | it cleans the floor with GCC | 22:08 |
| AstralStorm | not yet | 22:08 |
| TSCHAKeee | cleaner too | 22:08 |
| AstralStorm | it is coming close | 22:08 |
| ScottishDuck | I'm actually working on porting a linux core system to llvm | 22:08 |
| AstralStorm | no real reason | 22:08 |
| sandsmark | cough, some of the llvm evangelism is getting a bit out of hand | 22:08 |
| ScottishDuck | AstralStorm: When combined with libc++ it flies | 22:08 |
| sandsmark | it's design is cleaner than gcc, but that isn't saying much :-P | 22:08 |
| AstralStorm | pfaugh | 22:08 |
| AstralStorm | no it doesn't, the code is still slower | 22:09 |
| sandsmark | the OCCC c compiler was cleaner than GCC :-P | 22:09 |
| AstralStorm | not a lot, but still | 22:09 |
| ScottishDuck | That's mostly because it's processing backwards code made for GCC though, AstralStorm | 22:09 |
| AstralStorm | no, I'm talking C | 22:09 |
| ScottishDuck | ah | 22:09 |
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| AstralStorm | it's 10-20% slower right now | 22:10 |
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| AstralStorm | fixable of course :) | 22:10 |
| sandsmark | llvm has a lot to go until it catches up to, say, ICC, though | 22:10 |
| ScottishDuck | icc won't ever be caught | 22:10 |
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| AstralStorm | it might be | 22:10 |
| AstralStorm | see how fast llvm-gcc caught up | 22:11 |
| AstralStorm | surpassing isn't really out of question | 22:11 |
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| AstralStorm | and then, world domination ;) | 22:11 |
| ScottishDuck | icc is for intel cpu's, by intel | 22:11 |
| ScottishDuck | I don't see it happening | 22:11 |
| AstralStorm | so what | 22:11 |
| AstralStorm | it does some extra optimization passes | 22:11 |
| AstralStorm | and has less bugs in optimizers than gcc | 22:12 |
| ScottishDuck | Also it should be noted that we are actually talking about clang, not llvm :) | 22:12 |
| AstralStorm | (but more bugs elsewhere, huh) | 22:12 |
| AstralStorm | oh, yes, my mistake | 22:12 |
| AstralStorm | clang yes | 22:12 |
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| eeemeegosuse | somebady have been able to install suse meego? i really want it! and i can't wait! the official meego doesn't work as weel as i thought (codecs, and paquets...) so? | 22:12 |
| AstralStorm | meego is suse | 22:13 |
| AstralStorm | more or less | 22:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | it | 22:13 |
| AstralStorm | just add repositories and maybe it'll work | 22:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | heh | 22:13 |
| ScottishDuck | Suse makes me sad ._. | 22:13 |
| ScottishDuck | zypper is so terribad | 22:13 |
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| ScottishDuck | Anyway, things to do | 22:14 |
| eeemeegosuse | ScottishDuck: why? the suse version is gonna be better than the official meego ... at least we're gonna be able to have openoffice and skype lol | 22:15 |
| AstralStorm | yeah, on a cellphone | 22:15 |
| AstralStorm | dream on | 22:15 |
| AstralStorm | OOo will die with out of memory before it starts | 22:16 |
| sandsmark | eeemeegosuse: ah, does skype have an ARM version? | 22:16 |
| sandsmark | (and I remember someone demonstrating openoffice on his n900, it was unusable on the low resolution, without customization :-P) | 22:16 |
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| eeemeegosuse | sandsmark: i don't know but i've tried to install all the stuff i need to work on my netbook and in meego it's impossible... | 22:17 |
| sandsmark | ah | 22:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | the good thing is that OOo's UI is flexible enough to be repurposed for tablet use | 22:17 |
| sandsmark | you're talking about the netbook stuff :-) | 22:17 |
| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: if you have a large enough hammer | 22:17 |
| AstralStorm | a major work, but yes | 22:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | but there is an upfront cost of learning VCL and UNO | 22:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's not too bad | 22:17 |
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| sandsmark | I'd rather see a koffice port | 22:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | just because a code base is large | 22:18 |
| sandsmark | it's much lighter anyways | 22:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | doesn't mean you can't approach it | 22:18 |
| sandsmark | (and is Qt-based) | 22:18 |
| eeemeegosuse | sandsmark: yep! i would like to install meego on my lg arena but i guess it's impossible too lol | 22:18 |
| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: it's not only large, but also pretty undocumented | 22:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah true. | 22:18 |
| sandsmark | eeemeegosuse: hehe | 22:18 |
| sandsmark | TSCHAKeee: and it has variable names in german :-D | 22:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | heheh | 22:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | the ghost of Marco Berries lives on | 22:18 |
| eeemeegosuse | so nobody knows about how to get suse meego? | 22:19 |
| sandsmark | :-P | 22:19 |
| sandsmark | eeemeegosuse: try asking in the suse channel? | 22:19 |
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| eeemeegosuse | sandsmark: i have a littel problem... i've been using linux for about 6 months and i haven't used something different from ubuntu... so i don't even know where to ask :S | 22:20 |
| sandsmark | ah | 22:20 |
| sandsmark | eeemeegosuse: #opensuse I think is the channel | 22:20 |
| eeemeegosuse | in the freenode? | 22:20 |
| sandsmark | yes | 22:20 |
| eeemeegosuse | thanks ill try ;) | 22:20 |
| sandsmark | np | 22:20 |
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| eeemeegosuse | sandsmark: :( on the opensuse channel nobody tells me anything :( | 22:26 |
| sandsmark | :/ | 22:26 |
| CosmoHill | aww | 22:26 |
| sandsmark | well, I'm not sure | 22:26 |
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| sh0gunk0 | Hello everyone | 22:46 |
| CosmoHill | .o/ | 22:47 |
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| sh0gunk0 | is there any upcoming Nokia event with possible MeeGo device introduction? | 22:53 |
| Kray | tomorrow nokia announces its quarter results ;) | 22:55 |
| Kray | or whatever it was | 22:55 |
| sh0gunk0 | hehe | 22:55 |
| leinir | A wild guess would be the MeeGo summit :) | 22:55 |
| sh0gunk0 | interesting | 22:55 |
| leinir | as in, they've said they'll release devices in Q4, and that's when the summit is :) | 22:55 |
| Kray | new CEO might be announced tomorrow though | 22:56 |
| sh0gunk0 | what is the exact date of summit? | 22:56 |
| CosmoHill | (what's a CEO?) | 22:56 |
| leinir | MeeGo Conference, Aviva Stadium in Dublin, Ireland November 15-17th, 2010 | 22:56 |
| leinir | CosmoHill: Chief Executive Officer | 22:56 |
| leinir | CosmoHill: aka The Boss ;) | 22:56 |
| CosmoHill | ah okay | 22:56 |
| CosmoHill | I understood that last bit | 22:57 |
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| sh0gunk0 | wow, I have a birtday on November 14, so I will get a meego phone surprise news maybe | 22:57 |
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| sh0gunk0 | I am really looking for it | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | how long was the last CEO in place? | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | a year? | 22:57 |
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| ScottishDuck | Nokia is all over the place | 22:57 |
| Kray | Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo has been in lead since 2006 | 22:57 |
| ScottishDuck | they're finding it hard to modernise | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | ah ok | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee | they're finding it hard to deal with an open development model, too | 22:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | the execs don't seem to understand it at all | 22:58 |
| Kray | here in Finland rumors about Nokia changing CEO has been relatively big news | 22:58 |
| Kray | or anything regarding Nokia | 22:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | then you've got the odd elephant in the room | 22:59 |
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| TSCHAKeee | symbian | 22:59 |
| ScottishDuck | lole | 23:00 |
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| ScottishDuck | netsplit ( ≖‿≖) | 23:00 |
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| TSCHAKeee | which nobody seems to want to state definitively what to do with | 23:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | meego or symbian | 23:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | symbian or meego | 23:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | jugglejugglejuggle | 23:01 |
| ScottishDuck | Just kill symbian | 23:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | honestly, i agree with you | 23:01 |
| TSCHAKeee | EPOC has lived LONG past its shelf date | 23:01 |
| ScottishDuck | All new phones can handle meego | 23:01 |
| Kray | i think it is rather clear, meego for flagship models, symbian for other phones | 23:01 |
| leinir | It's essentially moving out, but it'll take a LONG time (think 5 years or something) | 23:02 |
| ScottishDuck | Kray: It has to be one OS | 23:02 |
| Kray | though personally i think too that symbian should die as quickly as possible | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | ehm, I was in a phone shop the other day, and maybe 2-4 phones out of 50 could have handled meego.. | 23:02 |
| ScottishDuck | you need a unified platform | 23:02 |
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| ScottishDuck | Apps are the killer feature now, can't have that when you support 2 OS | 23:02 |
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| TSCHAKeee | it's part of the reason Nokia acquired Qt | 23:03 |
| Gary_G | unline apple and many others, nokia does wide range of phones - prize and cpu power | 23:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | they wanted to make Qt the white knight | 23:03 |
| Kray | ScottishDuck: "apps" | 23:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | still do | 23:03 |
| Kray | I hate that word | 23:03 |
| leinir | ScottishDuck: The unified platform is Qt and OVI when talking about Nokia... As for distributing stuff, well... just you wait ;) | 23:03 |
| w00t_ | ShadowJK: never mind, phones under £500 don't exist | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | The sales person was keen to show a Samsung model, that despite having less features than a Nokia (low end symbian model), was better because it was "indestructible" :-) | 23:03 |
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| Kray | I want my phone to have good terminal emulator and full-featured web browser | 23:04 |
| Kray | those are all "apps" i need | 23:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | that would be the n900 | 23:04 |
| TSCHAKeee | i think the last one of those they'll make | 23:05 |
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| TSCHAKeee | but that is just speculation. | 23:05 |
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| TSCHAKeee | i'm thankful Nokia made the N900 at all | 23:05 |
| Kray | it is good to start with | 23:05 |
| ScottishDuck | If SGX was open, the n900 could have been so much better | 23:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's the fusion of everything i wanted since i bought my 770 back in 2005 | 23:05 |
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| Kray | and, in general, Nokia's hardware has rarely been even a minor problem | 23:06 |
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| Kray | it's the software (symbian) that has failed those phones | 23:06 |
| ScottishDuck | N900 with qualcomm graphics would have been great | 23:07 |
| ScottishDuck | (with the recent pseudo-open qualcomm driver) | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | Should have been taken away from >$200 phones years ago :P | 23:08 |
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| leinir | Kray: Well, they also have a problem with pushing out phones with amazing features... that just aren't used... | 23:09 |
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| leinir | Like the front-facing cameras, that they sort of didn't use for a long time | 23:09 |
| Kray | what you mean by front-facing | 23:09 |
| leinir | Kray: facing you when you look at the screen | 23:10 |
| ShadowJK | Or they were limited to cellular video calls, which most people don't know exist ;p | 23:10 |
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| leinir | but face-facing sounds so silly ;) | 23:10 |
| Kray | leinir: what i do with that kind of thing? | 23:10 |
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| ShadowJK | My E70 does video calls with the one camera on the back, which is kinda silly ;p | 23:11 |
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| leinir | well, what Apple have been pushing of late - they call it FaceTime (and require wifi for it, where any decent 3G network will do it anyway) | 23:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | I used 3g video calling on my nokia starting a decade ago | 23:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | but it was only in europe | 23:11 |
| TSCHAKeee | could never use it in the US | 23:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | granted it was INSANELY expensive | 23:12 |
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| TSCHAKeee | but it did work, up until my last phone before my n900, (I used a N70 for about 4 years) | 23:12 |
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| ShadowJK | Video calls over internet and not just over 3g is a new thing where nokia has fallen behind a bit :) | 23:12 |
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| TSCHAKeee | i love the fact that we have integrated video sip and skype calling | 23:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's fantastic | 23:13 |
| ScottishDuck | Yeah that's pretty cool | 23:13 |
| ScottishDuck | iPhone has it now though ._. | 23:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | that alone makes my iPhone friends green with envy | 23:13 |
| TSCHAKeee | at least before facetime | 23:13 |
| ScottishDuck | Skype for iPhone now runs in the backround | 23:13 |
| Kray | you shouldn't use packet data without fixed data transfer fees :P | 23:13 |
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| TSCHAKeee | Kray: i didn't have that option until i came back to the US, and signed with T-Mobile | 23:14 |
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| Kray | i want to see the day when fixed data fees apply to roaming too | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | There's a whole lot of silly shit in 3g, like "Video Sharing", 3g IM, 3g instant voice messages, etc.. At some point they (3gpp?) should just stop trying to compete with the internet :) | 23:15 |
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| Kray | ShadowJK: ever heard of 4G? | 23:15 |
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| lcuk | wasnt that the alig G special on channel 4? | 23:16 |
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| leinir | lcuk: i think so, yeah | 23:16 |
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| Kray | they are going to make it some ridiculous separate thing of internet | 23:16 |
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| ShadowJK | And while I say they should stop competing with internet, people whine and want to send WAP/WML emails with video, audio and image attachments, over non-internet and a not-invented-here reinvention of http.... | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | (mms) | 23:18 |
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| lcuk | thats because the internet has not yet filled the gap mobile phones and concept of simple person to person communication | 23:18 |
| Kray | and those 4G test networks have acquired speeds over 100mbps | 23:19 |
| Kray | though consumers won't see those speeds | 23:19 |
| ShadowJK | Well you know the real network will be 100 times more oversubscribed than the test network, and the base stations twice too sparse to function reliably.. | 23:20 |
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| * ShadowJK is very optimistic | 23:20 | |
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| lcuk | lol ShadowJK keep overheads low, expect failure, defensive coding etc ;) | 23:21 |
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| ShadowJK | Hey does anyone know if LTE is as sucky for always-on, frequent very small data transfers? | 23:22 |
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| ShadowJK | (as 3g) | 23:22 |
| Kray | we won't have the problem of too sparsely placed stations here | 23:22 |
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| Kray | usually maximum distance to three stations is less than 2 kilometers | 23:23 |
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| ShadowJK | oh? ime they never take into account that traffic will double each year, and run out of spectrum when people actually use their service, and find they'd need to halve transmission power on everything and double amount of stations ;p | 23:23 |
| Kray | ime? | 23:24 |
| ShadowJK | in my experience | 23:24 |
| Kray | oh | 23:24 |
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| Kray | the thing is also that we have no laws restricting transmitter placement | 23:25 |
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| Kray | there is one station about 200 meters from here | 23:25 |
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| Maemoboi | so how di put meego on my n900 what do i download? | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | it's fun driving through the city, there's one building full of college level students, there's a basestaton on the building across the street, but speeds are about 5kbyte/s in the evening :) | 23:26 |
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| lcuk | Kray, wont the transmitters have to be upgraded | 23:27 |
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| ShadowJK | of course | 23:27 |
| lcuk | ie, a slow rollout | 23:27 |
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| Kray | though it is rather silly that as we have 3 nationwide gsm & 3g networks, and no station does all of those 3, so they kinda overlap | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | they're still doing 3g rollout at 3 stations per day :p | 23:28 |
| ShadowJK | (per operator) | 23:28 |
| lcuk | one guy and his van - an incredible mission | 23:28 |
| lcuk | refitting every mast in the country! | 23:28 |
| lcuk | its like an engineering version of santa! | 23:28 |
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| Kray | I don't know how frequently we actually have 3g transmitters, but all 3 networks have almost complete 3g availability | 23:30 |
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| Kray | only some almost non-inhabited areas where there is no network at all in lappland :P | 23:30 |
| ShadowJK | the local mast is owned by company D, which only built it to rent space to operators A-C, and then 10 years later also installed wimax | 23:31 |
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| ShadowJK | kray: elisa does "over 1000" new per year | 23:31 |
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| Kray | lol | 23:31 |
| Kray | well, I use dna | 23:32 |
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| ShadowJK | dna doesn't ever talk much, sonera mostly says idiotic things like "we will never have fixed rate connections" (3 years later they have), "the era of fixed rate deals is over, per megabyte deals are coming back", etc :D | 23:35 |
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| Kray | i've generally been very happy with dna, everything works and fixed rate is cheap | 23:38 |
| Kray | though might upgrade to unlimited transfer instead of this 30MB per month | 23:38 |
| ShadowJK | they're the most solid, if you can get a signal | 23:38 |
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| Kray | that would cost 10 EUR/month | 23:39 |
| Kray | not bad | 23:39 |
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| sandsmark | what's the status of the communty OBS? | 23:57 |
| sandsmark | rrix needs access to port sweet, sweet KDE love | 23:58 |
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