IRC log of #meego for Wednesday, 2010-07-07

sivang	night all	00:00
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anaZ	ok, kaitlin already fixed that	00:02
anaZ	the qmf pkgconfig thing	00:02
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Aard	btw, I think the messaging-framework in testing has still the temporary repository url. we finally managed to move our version to meego.gitorious.org	00:03
anaZ	you can fix this and resubmit	00:04
Aard	will I get the trunk version with my changes when I create a branch now?	00:04
anaZ	I just noticed some issues in there in the packaging	00:05
anaZ	what is the full url now.	00:06
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anaZ	?	00:06
Aard	http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/messagingframework	00:06
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* CosmoHill sees the price of a sim free N900		00:07
CosmoHill	bugger that	00:07
anaZ	gitorious is b0rked	00:08
w00t_	anaZ: nothing new there eh :)	00:09
anaZ	not anymore	00:09
lbt	anaZ: can you give me a rough ETA on when I'll get access to that server? (so we can think about it in our planning meeting tomorrow)... "this week" is great (today is better!)	00:10
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lbt	and now gitorious is dead you have some free time ;)	00:10
Aard	btw, has obs been exceptionally slow the last few days, or is something else in between broken?	00:11
AndIrc_42	I'm having trouble bootings off of a USB drive. I just get a blinknh cursor.	00:11
anaZ	Aard: what is slow for you?	00:11
anaZ	response time on osc commands?	00:11
Aard	anaZ: that I've got enough time to read a news article before the requested page shows up when clicking on a link in the web-ui	00:12
anaZ	lbt: just do not make the world depend on that host access.. :)	00:12
Aard	and getting packages when building stuff with osc took ages	00:12
anaZ	Aard: yes, known issue, working on that	00:12
anaZ	some IO problems and bad hardware configurations we are trying to solve like in the next few days	00:13
anaZ	this is killing me btw, nobody else sees it as much I do :)	00:13
Aard	I did some local builds against trunk:testing today. basically, start osc and do something else for the next 3-4 hours	00:14
lbt	anaZ: no... but a rough idea would help. Mgmt are interested.	00:14
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AndIrc_42	in faxt i couldnt get Moblin to work on my netbook either	00:14
anaZ	who is mgmt?	00:16
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lbt	release/product managers want to see BOSS start to be used	00:17
anaZ	Aard: well, that might be slow download speed	00:17
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anaZ	lbt: me too	00:17
lbt	nothing new there... but we want to be clear about when things are likely to happen	00:17
anaZ	but when I asked today, you told me it is not there	00:17
anaZ	and I promised to send you documentation about interfaces and notifications	00:17
Aard	anaZ: an started getting annoying on friday, so something must have changed. I just don't know what	00:18
anaZ	so we can move forward	00:18
lbt	well, I thought we agreed that we need access to a server to start to build something	00:18
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anaZ	yes	00:18
lbt	and that's all I'm talking about	00:18
lbt	so I can say "after thursday we'll start to deploy some minimal scripts and grow from there"	00:19
anaZ	but is there something that can be deployed on a server? you told me BOSS has never seen an OBS before :)	00:19
lbt	catch 22	00:19
anaZ	not really	00:19
lbt	you've run the demo	00:19
lbt	you know it installs	00:19
anaZ	thats why I am sending you the documentation	00:19
anaZ	so we can break the catch	00:19
lbt	well, I guess I can try and write something to a documented spec...	00:20
lbt	that always works well	00:20
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lbt	anaZ: you left it with : "yeah, I will get you access".... what's changed?	00:22
anaZ	nothing	00:22
anaZ	but you want thing NOW NOW NOW NOW	00:22
lbt	no.. I asked for a rough ETA for planning	00:22
anaZ	:)	00:22
anaZ	tomorrow hopefully	00:23
lbt	thankyou	00:23
thiago_akademy	"now now now" sounds rather fair...	00:24
thiago_akademy	I often get stuff to do by "yesterday"	00:24
thiago_akademy	:-P	00:24
* lbt grins :)		00:24
lcuk	thiago_akademy, to be fair, it was "NOW NOW NOW" that was said. it has somewhat of a different inflection to "now now now".	00:24
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Aard	close to 0:30 here, time to do some serious sleeping. nice to have that messagingframework-stuff finally sorted out, though :)	00:27
lcuk	gnite Aard \o	00:27
w00t_	thiago_akademy: sounds like a joy	00:29
w00t_	:)	00:29
AndIrc_42	does it require being boot off of a cd?	00:29
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anaZ	lbt: btw, I was never able to run the demo	00:41
anaZ	lbt: I do not remember now what was it that blocked me last time, will give it another try	00:42
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lbt	OK ... I'm not sure what state the code's in now - you may have to use the tagged version	00:42
anaZ	lbt: now of course demo is less interesting, I want the real stuff	00:43
anaZ	:)	00:43
lbt	heh	00:43
lbt	me too .... NOW ;)	00:43
anaZ	really	00:43
anaZ	NOW	00:43
lbt	of course	00:43
anaZ	I want something working on my test setup like "yesterday"	00:43
lbt	FYI I'm writing a small python/ruby/perl RPC framework too...	00:43
anaZ	what for?	00:44
lbt	using the AMQP reply-to headers	00:44
lbt	eg cancel methods	00:44
lbt	or status enquiries	00:44
anaZ	yeah, fancy stuff, I'd rather have the basics working first :)	00:44
lbt	indeed	00:45
lcuk	lbt anaZ what is this system you are building - is this BOSS doofer?	00:45
anaZ	basics: send email, create image, create repo, create repo	00:45
anaZ	lcuk: lbt	00:45
anaZ	lcuk: lbt's boss	00:46
* anaZ has no boss		00:46
lbt	anaZ: I'd like to work with InformatiQ on what release of OBS you run too - make sure we keep the nokia one in sync	00:46
* lbt has 3 bosses		00:46
anaZ	now 1.7.4	00:46
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lcuk	anaZ, huh?	00:46
lbt	anaZ: vanilla? or with patches?	00:46
anaZ	next week 2.0.2 most likely, then move fast to 2.1.x once it stabilizes	00:46
anaZ	lbt: with notification patch	00:47
anaZ	which is minor	00:47
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anaZ	but now I am testing with 2.0.x only	00:47
anaZ	and the server I am setting up will have a test obs as well so we can use it for boss	00:47
lbt	OK - I'd be keen to ensure we use the same deployment - especially wrt notify	00:47
lbt	anaZ: excellent	00:47
anaZ	otherwise it will be messed up	00:48
lbt	we also want to run the community one with the notify	00:48
anaZ	since 1.7.5 sends some different event types for requests for example	00:48
anaZ	lbt in mainline it is , and it has the basic amqp notifier	00:48
lbt	nod ... I will be looking at your patches on thu/fri I think	00:48
anaZ	that can replace heremes	00:48
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lbt	yes, I saw that	00:49
anaZ	very basic stuff	00:49
lbt	does the job	00:49
anaZ	makes you think: Why didn't they do it earlier	00:49
anaZ	we should rewrite obs to use amqp for all events and messaging :)	00:49
lbt	I'd considered that as a longer term goal	00:50
lbt	it makes a lot of sense	00:50
anaZ	and perl -> python :)	00:50
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lbt	well, I've seen mic2...	00:50
lbt	and that's python	00:50
anaZ	aha	00:50
* lbt doesn't mind as long as it's documented		00:50
anaZ	documentation is overrated	00:51
lbt	heh	00:51
anaZ	read the code man	00:51
anaZ	where is that boss documentation :)	00:51
lbt	epydoc ...	00:51
lbt	hey.. it's not bad actually	00:52
lbt	have you seen it?	00:52
lbt	this : http://wiki.github.com/jmettraux/ruote/overview	00:52
anaZ	thats not boss though :)	00:52
* thiago_akademy was reading up on the latest nokia rumours on engadget		00:53
lcuk	blink	00:53
lbt	well, BOSS is just rebranding	00:53
anaZ	its like me pointing you to python documentation for mic	00:53
thiago_akademy	best way to learn stuff about the company I work for :-)	00:53
lcuk	lbt, github can format like that?	00:53
lbt	lcuk: wiki	00:53
anaZ	that is markdown, no?	00:53
lcuk	:D oh my	00:53
* lcuk runs off to play with new toy		00:53
lbt	github is kicking gitorious' ass	00:53
lcuk	i already found out about issues only last week ;)	00:53
anaZ	lbt: I have read that	00:53
anaZ	it is nice	00:53
* lcuk has had liqbase on there for last 12months		00:53
lbt	anaZ: yeah... I wrote it to try and understand wtf was going on	00:54
anaZ	but I want to see a working example, not in demo form to satisfy management	00:54
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lbt	anaZ: now I have the revs client working	00:54
anaZ	cool	00:54
lbt	but I need real changes	00:54
lcuk	thanks lbt :) yet again your docs have helped !	00:54
lbt	hence my nagging :)	00:54
lcuk	just not in the way you expect :P	00:54
anaZ	well, that is where we really need to figure requirements	00:54
lbt	it's only 'cos I care <grin>	00:54
anaZ	and end goal	00:54
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anaZ	because there are 1000 ways to do it	00:55
lbt	I do agree	00:55
anaZ	what makes sense the most	00:55
anaZ	thats where I want to get to	00:55
lbt	I'd like to experiment a little to see what it can do	00:55
anaZ	generating changelogs, been there, done that	00:55
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	00:55
anaZ	i have all the tools for that, no need for fancy web stuff :)	00:55
lbt	yeah... but then hooks into QA validation etc	00:55
lbt	and of course OTS	00:56
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lbt	did I mention that they're scheduled to do some integration next sprint?	00:56
anaZ	wtf is OTS	00:56
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lbt	CITA	00:57
anaZ	well, once we do the basic stuff and get things rolling, everything else is possible and easy	00:57
anaZ	we just need start the wheel rolling	00:57
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anaZ	and nothing can stop us from there :)	00:57
thiago_akademy	like a snowball?	00:58
anaZ	CITA, MITA , QITA, FAJITA	00:58
lbt	or a cheese wheel...	00:58
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GAN900	Mmm . . . cheese	00:58
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thiago_akademy	the problem with snowballs is that it's not cold enough in Finland yet	00:58
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lbt	MeeGo : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOyQBSMeIhM	00:58
anaZ	Fajita could be a nice code name for something	00:58
thiago_akademy	will take another month or so for the snow to come back	00:58
lbt	that's anaZ at 0:22 I think	00:59
anaZ	is that you?	00:59
anaZ	:)	00:59
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lbt	british sports rule!	00:59
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anaZ	lbt: have you tried repodiff ?	01:00
lbt	no...	01:01
anaZ	that basically is another way to give you the changes	01:01
anaZ	diff two builds and you have what you want	01:01
anaZ	changes, new packages, removed packages, etc.	01:01
anaZ	but that is on the repo level	01:02
lbt	yes... I think the aim was to have something 'clickable'....	01:02
lbt	this is management reporting.... :)	01:02
anaZ	well, you can import the diff int othe management crap	01:02
anaZ	but I am talking about generating the data first	01:02
lbt	had I known about it I'd have looked at it	01:03
anaZ	that will be another participant I want	01:03
anaZ	everyday send an email with changes since yesterfay	01:03
anaZ	yesterday	01:03
anaZ	[nashif@taybeh ~]$ rpm -ql yum-utils \| grep diff	01:03
anaZ	/usr/bin/repodiff	01:03
anaZ	/usr/share/man/man1/repodiff.1.gz	01:03
lbt	yep... and we can have longer running 'processes' too	01:04
anaZ	yeah, most release process take time	01:05
anaZ	from repo generation to images etc	01:05
anaZ	this is no 1 sec process	01:05
lbt	right now I'm really interested in the reliability aspects too	01:06
lbt	I notice that the python library silently doesn't do 'reliable' transmission of msgs	01:06
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lcuk	omg lbt - the horsehead guy from google earth is on that video!!!!	01:10
lcuk	errr google streetview	01:10
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lcuk	at 2:04	01:11
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lcuk	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east_orkney_and_shetland/10401345.stm	01:12
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lcuk	bye	01:12
lbt	o/	01:12
DawnFoster	lbt: I think I want to get rid of the meego-dev irc channel	01:12
lcuk	hi lardman bye lardman \o	01:13
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DawnFoster	lbt: let's move your stuff to a name that makes sense and write a good topic description so that people understand how it's used.	01:13
lbt	DawnFoster: what do you suggest?	01:13
lbt	OK	01:13
DawnFoster	what did you suggest earlier?	01:14
lbt	anaZ: do you have any thoughts?	01:14
* thiago_akademy suggests #meego-devel		01:14
lbt	DawnFoster: I think I suggested -infra	01:14
thiago_akademy	makes a lot of difference :-P	01:14
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DawnFoster	the problem is that ordinary developer questions can go in meego	01:15
lbt	thiago_akademy: heh....	01:15
DawnFoster	we don't need -dev or -devel :)	01:15
lbt	this isn't for questions though	01:15
thiago_akademy	this is how #kde started	01:15
DawnFoster	I'm trying to get rid of the irc channels we don't need	01:15
thiago_akademy	it was the devel channel	01:15
thiago_akademy	then there was a #kde-users channel for users	01:15
thiago_akademy	at one point we decided to swap	01:15
lbt	thiago_akademy: yes... no surprise	01:15
lbt	'cos the users find #meego eventually	01:16
DawnFoster	I think that #meego is fine for questions	01:16
thiago_akademy	they will	01:16
lbt	but #meego-dev is beyond most of them ....	01:16
thiago_akademy	eventually, development of meego will have to shift out of this channel	01:16
DawnFoster	especially, if we move to a few work channels	01:16
lbt	sad but true ;)	01:16
Stskeeps	lbt: where in meego organisation does your work belong?	01:16
Stskeeps	if you look at governance	01:16
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lbt	release engineering I guess	01:16
DawnFoster	stskeeps: good question	01:16
lbt	meego-releng	01:16
lbt	and we use erlang too	01:16
* lbt shudders		01:17
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lbt	Stskeeps: your chan is busy most of the time isn't it	01:18
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lbt	and it's mainly one topic ?	01:18
Stskeeps	'ARM' is the common theme	01:18
Stskeeps	meego-arm's a weird name too considering governance though	01:18
lbt	nod ... everyone in there is interested in most everything that's said?	01:19
Stskeeps	i think you'd belong well with releng, in terms of the work you're doing	01:19
Stskeeps	ie, the stakeholders'd be there, etc	01:19
lbt	eek	01:19
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Stskeeps	(personal opinion, dawnfoster has the last word in irc matters)	01:20
DawnFoster	let me ask around and make sure we don't already have something for release engineering under some other name.	01:20
DawnFoster	I'm checking with AnaZ now	01:20
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w00t_	(fwiw I think that's a better name than 'infra')	01:27
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lbt	releng?	01:28
w00t_	yeah	01:29
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CosmoHill	how many channels are you guys in?	01:31
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DawnFoster	too many	01:32
CosmoHill	10+?	01:32
w00t_	uhh	01:32
lbt	26	01:32
* w00t_ looks		01:32
w00t_	39 windows on this client	01:32
lbt	(on freenode)	01:32
w00t_	26 on my other	01:32
w00t_	(I'm a bit disturbed by my "work" client having more channels than my "social" client)	01:33
auke	14	01:33
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lbt	auke: you can join #emacs	01:33
auke	I use vim	01:33
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lbt	all the more reason....	01:34
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trip0	:P	01:34
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CosmoHill	you people scare me	01:34
CosmoHill	how do you even cope with that many	01:34
CosmoHill	I'm screwed if two channels become active at once	01:34
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auke	half of them are dead lol	01:35
Stskeeps	it's called alt-a	01:35
Stskeeps	:P	01:35
lbt	ignore them unless they flash red	01:35
* CosmoHill looks at the ace in auke's hand		01:35
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auke	one of them is the channel I made for my very first open source program I authored	01:35
CosmoHill	wait that's not right	01:35
CosmoHill	axe*	01:35
auke	there's maybe one person a week that comes in and asks about	01:35
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auke	still, a ten-year old project that's alive :)	01:36
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lbt	vim ?	01:36
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auke	I think vim is a lot older	01:36
lbt	heh	01:36
dive	has anyone managed to get the open source n900 image to boot in qemu yet?	01:37
dive	seems it doesn't have a bootloader installed	01:37
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Stskeeps	take a old core nand image, qflasher in the kernel	01:38
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lbt	night all....	01:38
dive	Stskeeps, like the nokia nand image for example?	01:38
Stskeeps	yes	01:38
dive	ok will try thanks	01:38
lbt	DawnFoster: let me know what you think is best...	01:38
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DawnFoster	lbt: thanks - let me think about it a bit more	01:39
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w00t_	CosmoHill: two ways	01:41
w00t_	one, you use alt+a to switch on active windows	01:41
CosmoHill	ååååå	01:41
w00t_	two, you learn to filter conversation better and ignore things you don't care about	01:41
CosmoHill	fail	01:41
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ali1234	CosmoHill: i'm in 10 channels at the moment, about average	01:44
CosmoHill	I'm in 5	01:45
ali1234	i use pidgin, it highlights the tabs in red when someone speaks, or blue if someone says my name	01:45
CosmoHill	two are totally dead	01:45
dive	Stskeeps, actually, the nokia nand image boots fine already. It's the open source raw image I need to get working.	01:45
CosmoHill	the 6th I'm sometimes in is french so I have no idea what they are saying	01:45
Stskeeps	dive: codedrop or 1.1 trunk?	01:45
dive	well I have 1.0.0 trunk	01:46
dive	didn't know there was a 1.1	01:46
dive	-> meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-sda.raw	01:46
CosmoHill	I suppose at some point I'll have to start using meego	01:46
CosmoHill	>.>	01:46
CosmoHill	<.<	01:46
ali1234	heh. i'll start using it as soon as someone makes a version that works on AMD :/	01:47
CosmoHill	nvidia support would be nice	01:48
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dive	Stskeeps, this is the only page I can find and it only has 1.0 images: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/	01:51
dive	do you have a link to later ones?	01:51
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Stskeeps	do you have a working mic2 setup?	01:52
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dive	no I just want to run them in qemu	01:52
dive	don't know about mic2	01:52
Stskeeps	i'd wait until something more ready is there then :P	01:53
dive	hmm	01:53
dive	well it seems strange to supply unbootable images	01:53
dive	the only way I can think of getting it to work is to get a n900 cd image of some sort, booting that and installing a bootloader	01:54
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* CosmoHill wonders if you can do P2V conversions on humans		02:39
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CosmoHill	cyas	02:59
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riddlebox	is meego running on the n810 yet?	03:02
trip0	lol	03:02
microlith	#meego-arm	03:02
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riddlebox	ok	03:03
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eags	So Meego handheld is using qt, is it also running X? Or is it using QWS?	03:23
TSCHAKeee2	X is used	03:24
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eags	Is anyone using QWS anymore? It seems like the Qt embedded docs are a little confusing. I'm not understanding if that was the old qtopia/qtextended way of doing things or if that still makes sense for any embedded linux	03:27
w00t_	meego is using X	03:29
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w00t_	see also: http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture	03:29
chriadam	eags: I'm sure there are. really light embedded linux where running X is not an option due to hardware constraints, for example.	03:30
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eags	Is meego using matchbox then for window management?	03:37
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w00t_	eags: depends on the UX, if you're asking about handset, it's using mcompositor	03:38
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eags	mcompositor? Any information on that? Website? I'm assuming that is a compositing window manager? Compiz-lite?	03:40
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w00t_	http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-compositor	03:41
w00t_	it's not really compiz, no	03:42
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* w00t_ has to go to sleep now, anyhow		03:42
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eags	w00t_, any documentation on any of this? It all looks very nice but also sort of inaccessible from the outside without more info. At my company we're going to do a fully custom embedded linux device and are probably going to use Qt but were sort of lost between all the meego stuff, X vs QWS, etc since it all seems to be in such flux right now.	03:50
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chriadam	eags: I can't help you with regards to meegotouch-compositor, but if you're looking at different window systems and Qt, you should read these blog posts: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/category/labs/lighthouse/	03:53
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Macer	so. how is the n900 dev going?	04:40
Macer	uhm	04:41
Macer	meego.com is a blank page	04:41
Macer	is that some sort of symbolism? :)	04:41
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GAN900	tabla rasa	05:33
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Macer	wow	06:43
Macer	so how well does it run on an n900?	06:43
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AndrewX192	Is there a easy way to get NXClient on Meego for netbooks?	10:22
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Valter	MAKANKOSAPPO!	11:04
Valter	Há!	11:04
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slaine	morning all	11:15
amjad	morning slaine	11:16
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and471	hi guys	11:19
and471	I am torn between using webkit or the mx-toolkit for this project http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/introducing-the-wasiliana-mail-client/	11:19
and471	could someone give me the advantages of using mx-toolkit over webkit?	11:19
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and471	(and HTML/CSS interface)	11:20
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FunkyPenguin	ugh why is it i always fall over with the damned browser package? with moblin i couldnt get things to work using firefox, now with meego i cant get things to work with chromium :(	13:52
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Aard	FunkyPenguin: oh, but you have a change here to get things not working with fennec as well	13:52
FunkyPenguin	Aard, im not even looking at handheld yet!	13:53
FunkyPenguin	i need to get netbook out the door first, then i'll look at handheld (if i get the hardware)	13:53
Aard	netbook works fine for basic testing, if you don't	13:54
* FunkyPenguin has 1 week to get things working and built		13:54
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_krypton	FYI : Video of the MeeGo running on a Lenovo Pad at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6muBs8LUlYU	15:05
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krypton	this is a pretty old version of Meego , so just dont mind the flakiness	15:06
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pupnik	"	15:40
pupnik	Also as many have stated, Moorestown is not really ready yet for Mobile space consumption. The next die-shrink will be the first real Intel foray into the mobile handset space."	15:41
pupnik	-vasra2	15:41
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pupnik	7" Cortex-A8 tablet (android) $200-250 http://shanzai.com/index.php/bandit-gadgets/tablets/1360-first-look-a81-sub-usd-200-mountable-tablet-sports-removable-battery-android-21-cortex-8-processor-and-features-galore	15:46
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TSCHAKeee2	re: moorestown, probably the most true thing said about the entire platform as of yet.	15:59
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slaine	woohoo, we're no.1 in ireland	16:31
slaine	http://www.irishtimes.com/business/tech50/	16:31
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Stskeeps	congrats!	16:31
slaine	Thanks Stskeeps	16:31
slaine	load of BS though ;)	16:31
Stskeeps	hehe	16:32
krypton	slaine: Congrats .... calls for a beer ;)	16:32
slaine	I think so	16:32
slaine	We're due to have a company bbq soon actually	16:32
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remu	Hey folks. Does anyone know how to install rdesktop on meego?	16:40
remu	My boss loves meego, we just need to see if we can install rdesktop somehow, and if we can, we're going to put it on all of our check out netbooks.	16:40
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Stskeeps	should be fairly easily to port	16:41
Stskeeps	if not a rpm exists already	16:41
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josemoreira	hi	17:10
josemoreira	is MeeGo netbook based on a distro?	17:10
Stskeeps	meego core ;)	17:10
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josemoreira	i know the question may be stupid :) i cant test it atm and i would like to know if i can work on it (develop)	17:14
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josemoreira	"work on it" ~ code my projects	17:14
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Stskeeps	there's a netbook sdk	17:14
josemoreira	wasnt talking about developing meego, but developing on it	17:15
Stskeeps	yeah, i know	17:15
* josemoreira feels like a total newbie		17:15
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Stskeeps	http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux	17:17
josemoreira	well im gonna steal someones pen and try it	17:17
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rektide	when are official meego meetings?	18:17
arjan	#meego-meeting	18:19
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tybollt	FACEPALM	18:28
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w00t_	rektide: there's a schedule on the wiki	18:34
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DawnFoster	and here's a link to the meeting schedule: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule	18:40
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b-man	DawnFoster: would you like me to transfer ownership of #meego-dev over to you?	18:46
DawnFoster	b-man: probably a good idea, thanks!	18:46
DawnFoster	b-man: can you also add stskeeps?	18:46
b-man	sure :)	18:47
b-man	1 sec, gotta re-login ;P	18:47
DawnFoster	thanks, again. Things are so spread out right now, I'm not sure who owns what :)	18:47
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b-man17	hmm, giveownership is not recognized :S	18:50
Stskeeps	/chanserv set #meego-dev founder dawnfoster	18:50
b-man17	ah	18:50
b-man17	ty	18:50
DawnFoster	b-man17: this is why I always give stskeeps access, too - he seems to know all of the IRC commands :)	18:52
Stskeeps	i call it brain damage	18:52
Stskeeps	:P	18:52
b-man17	lol	18:52
wao	:-)))	18:52
b-man17	can i still be a mod? :)	18:52
wao	ircmaster	18:52
wao	:P	18:52
Stskeeps	god, this connman bug is annoying..	18:52
DawnFoster	b-man17: sure	18:52
b-man17	ty :)	18:52
* b-man17 gives now Stskeeps ownership		18:53
b-man17	*now gives	18:53
Stskeeps	if you already switched to dawn, think it's too late :) dawn should /chanserv access #meego-dev add stskeeps +F	18:54
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b-man17	oh	18:54
b-man17	woops	18:54
Stskeeps	once the switchover is done	18:54
b-man17	DawnFoster: did you get ownership?	18:54
Stskeeps	still noted as you as founder, what did chanserv respond to you?	18:55
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DawnFoster	no, I don't have access (I just tried to add stskeeps) and got (notice) You are not authorized to execute this command.	18:55
b-man17	ok, i'll rty again	18:55
b-man17	*try	18:55
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: execute the following: /msg ChanServ SET #meego-dev FOUNDER DawnFoster	18:56
Stskeeps	that should complete the step	18:56
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Stskeeps	(a good way to avoid getting blamed for suddenly being owner of #goatse, they verify you actually want it..)	18:56
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b-man17	lol	18:56
lcuk	im so glad magical command line incantations still exist	18:56
DawnFoster	stskeeps: that worked :)	18:57
Stskeeps	there we go, yes	18:57
b-man17	:)	18:57
DawnFoster	stskeeps: I just gave you +F access	18:57
b-man17	is everyone set? xD	18:57
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: k	18:58
DawnFoster	b-man17: thanks, I think we got it all straightened out	18:58
b-man17	awesome :)	18:58
DawnFoster	b-man17: and thanks again for offering to transfer it!	18:59
b-man17	no problem :)	18:59
b-man17	i think it's better off with someone official anyhow xD	19:00
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TSCHAKeee2	thiago_home: thank you for hitting the nail on the head with a cruise missile :)	19:10
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* thiago_home wonders what nail he hit		19:12
TSCHAKeee2	your latest reply to the openness thread	19:13
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thiago_home	I've just sent the email	19:17
* thiago_home wrote it on the plane		19:17
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Stskeeps	arjan: probably a stupid question, but how would you enable system-wide coredumps in meego core?	19:23
Stskeeps	am debugging a connmand issue (crash on startup)	19:24
Stskeeps	and yes, i tried ulimit -c unlimited before running it	19:24
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thiago_home	Stskeeps: check /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern	19:30
thiago_home	on the N900 by default it has a path that doesn't exist, so the core dumps go nowhere	19:30
Stskeeps	:nod:	19:30
thiago_home	also note you need write perms on the current directory	19:30
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thiago_home	sounds obvious, but the first time I tried core-dumping on the N900, it wasn't creating anything (over NFS-mount)	19:31
thiago_home	arjan: are you around?	19:31
josemoreira	im booting meego on an asus-pe1050 and all i get is a black screen	19:33
josemoreira	this is after boot menu	19:33
josemoreira	running from a pen	19:34
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slonopotamus	(maybe that _is_ meego?) :)	19:34
josemoreira	:)	19:35
josemoreira	+1 for power consumption	19:35
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josemoreira	removed 'quiet' from the boot entry, kernel boots and then	19:36
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josemoreira	BSOD again	19:36
CosmoHill	lol	19:36
josemoreira	or, BSOS	19:37
b-man	bsos? xD	19:37
josemoreira	Black Screen Of something	19:37
josemoreira	dunno, cant see	19:37
josemoreira	:p	19:37
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b-man	maemo can have the wsod xD	19:37
slaine	what graphics chip does that hardware have ?	19:37
josemoreira	ehum good question	19:37
josemoreira	its a asus 1005 pe	19:38
josemoreira	let me see	19:38
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CosmoHill	josemoreira: you trying to run meego?	19:39
josemoreira	yes	19:39
CosmoHill	does your processor have SSSE3 support?	19:39
josemoreira	dunno its an intela tom	19:40
slonopotamus	:D	19:40
josemoreira	EeePC 1005PE: http://meego.com/devices/netbook/supported-hardware-platforms	19:40
slonopotamus	josemoreira: can you ssh into it?	19:41
josemoreira	have no idea	19:41
josemoreira	dont know the ip	19:41
josemoreira	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Atom says it has ss3, i guess	19:42
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slaine	I don't think ssh is enabled by default	19:42
slaine	The blank screen is likely a graphics driver issue	19:42
josemoreira	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Atom#N4xx_Series	19:42
josemoreira	slaine, i believe so also	19:43
slaine	Is this from the live key or after the install	19:43
josemoreira	live usb key	19:43
slaine	can you switch to a VT ?	19:43
josemoreira	it goes blank when trying to display the gfx bootloader i guess	19:43
josemoreira	ahhhhhhhhh	19:43
josemoreira	it was the brightness :P	19:43
slaine	:)	19:44
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josemoreira	forgot about that	19:44
slaine	that's a first	19:44
josemoreira	even on linux i have probs	19:44
josemoreira	ususally i need to add acpi=linux_vendor or somehting to the kernel	19:44
josemoreira	ps.: whats the password? :)	19:44
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CosmoHill	rofl	19:45
CosmoHill	josemoreira: username is "root" and password is "meego"	19:45
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josemoreira	makes sense :)	19:46
josemoreira	woo cooal	19:46
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slonopotamus	CosmoHill: and network login is enabled by default? :)	19:47
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CosmoHill	you mean ssh?	19:54
slonopotamus	yep	19:55
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Stskeeps	i really wonder why noone just makes a netbook .ks, ask to put NVIDIA drivers in same directory, .. bam, a nvidia netbook image..	19:59
trip0	heh	19:59
thiago_home	I'll suggest that to NVidia tomorrow	20:00
Stskeeps	(some generalisation and abstraction needed)	20:00
Stskeeps	it is all libGL afterall	20:00
thiago_home	rather, Friday	20:00
thiago_home	I have a meeting with them	20:00
thiago_home	of course, I won't be able to tell you anything about their reaction	20:00
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trip0	Stskeeps, at the very least enable the nouveau driver in the kernel	20:00
trip0	:S	20:01
Stskeeps	send a patch? :P	20:02
RST38h	moo all	20:02
trip0	any meego kernel guys in here?	20:02
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CosmoHill	thiago_home: have a meeting with someone who doesn't play poker	20:03
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Stskeeps	trip0: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source , patch away	20:05
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trip0	Stskeeps, i've already got a clone for that	20:06
trip0	i need to figure out the "right way (TM)" to do it though	20:06
trip0	cuz i dont' think i did it right	20:06
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slaine	nouveau is actually blacklisted too trip0	20:32
slaine	just so you're aware	20:32
arjan	slaine: ??	20:33
trip0	why?	20:33
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slaine	arjan: the module blacklist as nouveau in there	20:34
CosmoHill	I black listed nouveau when I installed nvidia on redhat	20:35
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CosmoHill	but why would it be black listed on meego?	20:35
arjan	that'd be a bug	20:36
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thiago_home	arjan: did I tell you I implemented the second-based timer for Qt?	20:42
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josemoreira	how do i logout? :)	20:44
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slaine	josemoreira: you close the lid or press the power button to turn off	20:45
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slaine	it's not a multi-login system	20:45
TSCHAKeee2	silly unix users	20:46
josemoreira	slaine, ok, it was to change language settings (running from pen drive)	20:46
TSCHAKeee2	:P	20:46
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lcuk	thiago_home, second-based?	20:47
thiago_home	as opposed to millisecond-based	20:47
lcuk	theres me thinking it was girlfriend code	20:47
lcuk	you mean for operating tick tock clocks etc?	20:47
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lcuk	what does it gain practically that the ms based one didnt cope with before?	20:48
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arjan	thiago_home: nice	20:50
arjan	system wide synchronized?	20:50
arjan	speaking of qt timers	20:50
arjan	does qt know if the application has focus	20:50
arjan	or is on the screen at all ?	20:50
thiago_home	synchronised to the monotonic clock's full-second (0 milliseconds)	20:50
arjan	(and does it get notification if that changes?)	20:50
thiago_home	not in the basic event loop, but the X11 dispatcher can set that info	20:51
thiago_home	you can get focus events for windows	20:51
arjan	basically	20:51
arjan	we can do timer rounding in the kernel	20:51
thiago_home	to 10 ms? (MONOTONIC_COARSE)	20:51
arjan	and can do it precise if visible, waaay roudned up if not visible	20:51
arjan	yeah	20:51
arjan	APIs don't cahnge	20:51
thiago_home	how do I tell the kernel?	20:52
arjan	the rounding happens kernel side, and will coincide with other events	20:52
thiago_home	or should I change the timer in Qt?	20:52
arjan	via prctl()	20:52
ShadowJK	lcuk: system wide seconds based timers would mean that apps with timers wake up on whole seconds only, instead of one app waking up at 1.25, other at 1.35, etc. When everything wakes up simultaneously, there's a bigger period of cpu idle between timer events, which saves much power	20:52
ShadowJK	(but I'm just guessing)	20:52
arjan	prctl() with PR_SET_TIMERSLACK to be honest	20:52
arjan	lcuk: many apps have "every 10 seconds more or less" kind of timers	20:53
arjan	lcuk: there's huge value in aligning them all up to the same point	20:53
lcuk	sure	20:53
lcuk	10000	20:53
arjan	(power value)	20:53
thiago_home	well, I implemented three timer modes in Qt	20:53
arjan	by making the API in seconds, it means you give explicit permission to round	20:53
thiago_home	the HighPrecision one is the current model, which is exact to the millisecond	20:53
arjan	that's fine	20:53
thiago_home	the VeryCoarse one is the second-based one	20:53
thiago_home	it always rounds the timer to a second and wakes up in a full second	20:54
lcuk	so this isnt useful for clocks	20:54
arjan	lcuk: no but for many other backgroudn things it is	20:54
thiago_home	the third one is an adaptative mode called simply Coarse	20:54
arjan	thiago_home: the prctl() one is nice in that it impacts the thread as a whole, for any timers it does	20:54
thiago_home	it will use a 5% error to make the timer wake up at defined intervals	20:54
arjan	so youc an turn it coarse/precise based on global events, from a local decision point	20:54
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thiago_home	so if you're at 40412.123 and ask for a 400 ms timer, it will try to use a multiple-of-200 ms boundary	20:55
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arjan	ah nice	20:55
arjan	slowly self aligning	20:56
arjan	the nice thing about the prctl is that it gives timers a range	20:56
arjan	but if some event happens inside that range, the timer will happen right then	20:56
thiago_home	so it will wake up at 40412.333 (210 ms later), 40412.543, 40412.753, 40412.963, 40413.173, 40413.383, 40413.593	20:56
arjan	so if you set a 20 msec range, you'll effectively align on vblank events etc	20:56
thiago_home	then it wakes up at 40413.800 and from then on precisely 200 ms	20:56
ShadowJK	How new a distro do I need to find a prctl man page? :) It sounds interesting	20:57
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lcuk	wouldnt people wanting vblank somehow tie into vblank event etc?	20:57
* thiago_home doesn't have PR_SET_TIMERSLACK in his prctl(2) manpage		20:57
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thiago_home	arjan: anyway, what I want is to set the timerslack per select/poll	20:57
lcuk	since theres no way of knowing which system you are running on or even if you have a vblank	20:57
josemoreira	meego should 'remember' the last top icon people clicked, after returning from an application	20:57
thiago_home	i.e., the app is going to sleep, it knows the timers pending and how slack they are	20:57
thiago_home	otherwise, I need two syscalls per sleep	20:57
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arjan	thiago_home: agreed... but Ulrich said nobody would use it, and he'd not support it in glibc until there was a user	20:59
arjan	if Qt will use it then we can go to uli together and plead the case ;)	20:59
* thiago_home raises his hand		20:59
arjan	if Qt has a meaningful way of doing this... that'd be good	20:59
thiago_home	my current code only handles the first (soonest) timer	20:59
thiago_home	what happens if the soonest timer has a more lax constraint than the next one?	21:00
arjan	what you do is sort the timers on "start + slack" not on "start"	21:00
arjan	basically the end of the contraint time is the hard deadline and sort on that	21:00
arjan	hmm	21:00
thiago_home	of course, I could determine a max slack (20 ms?) and look into the timers there	21:00
arjan	that does not work if userspace does it as well	21:00
arjan	although it'll be correct if you sort by end of range	21:01
arjan	and then pick the timer that pops up first and just use that	21:01
arjan	its not optimal	21:01
* arjan needs to ponder more		21:01
arjan	(for kernel we have more liberty)	21:01
RST38h	what exactly are you trying to do?	21:01
* CosmoHill hands arjan some coffee to help the pondering		21:01
thiago_home	I spent several hours considering the best algorithm for Qt	21:01
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thiago_home	the current algo is just for synchronising wakeups	21:02
thiago_home	since the objective is that all apps synchronise to the same point in time, it shouldn't be a waste	21:02
thiago_home	for example, plasma-desktop has tens of 2-second timers. Without my patch, it was causing 3.3 wakups/sec.	21:03
RST38h	and now?	21:04
thiago_home	with the patch, my laptop produced 0.9 (I don't know where powertop got that number)	21:04
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thiago_home	debugging info revealed it slept for 1.5 sec, woke up, slept 500 ms, woke up, restarted the cycle	21:04
RST38h	thiago: you do know that is is 0.9 wakeups pers second more than needed? =)	21:04
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thiago_home	on the laptop, it took more than 500 ms to initialise all timers, which meant that some timers got aligned to a different 500-ms boundary	21:05
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thiago_home	on my workstation in the office, all 62 2-second timers were sync'ed	21:05
thiago_home	RST38h: of course. I can't help if you try to shoot yourself in the foot. :-)	21:05
RST38h	thiago: seriously, is it the mobile version or the netbook?	21:06
thiago_home	plasma-desktop	21:06
thiago_home	not plasma-mobile or plasma-netbook	21:06
RST38h	ah, got it	21:06
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RST38h	Ok, let us see...	21:07
RST38h	You have got N processes, each having a set of timers	21:07
RST38h	Timers inside a process are supposed to be synced by phase	21:07
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RST38h	But between sets, you do not care	21:08
arjan	between apps you still care	21:08
arjan	hence roudning to a sytem timer	21:08
RST38h	I am not sure that I care	21:08
arjan	my battery cares	21:08
RST38h	If an app wants to tie itself to the system timer, it can	21:08
arjan	and thus I care	21:08
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RST38h	Wait, let us forget the battery for now	21:08
thiago_home	no, let's not forget the battery	21:08
arjan	lets not forget the battery	21:09
thiago_home	the battery is the entire objective of this exercise	21:09
RST38h	Battery has nothing to do with what I am currently trying to figure out	21:09
thiago_home	if it weren't for the battery, we'd try to get apps to wake up at different times, so as to not compete for CPU time	21:09
RST38h	Consider a thread creating several timers. That thread probably cares about the phase between its timers	21:09
thiago_home	what do you mean by phase here?	21:09
RST38h	BUT, if we look at two threads or two tasks or two apps, they do not care	21:09
arjan	sometimes	21:09
arjan	most timers in practice are very very coarse and more for background maintenance tasks	21:10
RST38h	thiago: period between timer0.start tim and tier1.start time	21:10
arjan	and the app really does not care how/when it runs	21:10
thiago_home	if the thread really cares about that, you can use the HighPrecision timer	21:10
RST38h	The way I understand it, you want to merge as many individual timers together as you can	21:10
thiago_home	most apps that I've seen don't	21:10
RST38h	so that one wakeup could trigger multiple timers in many apps	21:10
RST38h	right?	21:10
thiago_home	right	21:10
slaine	arjan: is there an OBS setup guide for meego for companies wanting to tailor meego for their hardware ?	21:10
arjan	RST38h: that's the inverse proposition of what we try to do here	21:10
Macer	abby working on the gibbs case of when he shot the drug cartel guy	21:10
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arjan	RST38h: we try to redcue the number of times we wake up to service timers	21:11
RST38h	arjan: you want to have as many wakeups as possible?	21:11
arjan	RST38h: grouping timers together is a means to get there	21:11
thiago_home	RST38h: what you're saying is that if I start a 100 ms timer now, wait 23 ms, then start another 100 ms timer, the thread wants the second timer to always wake up 23 ms after the first one?	21:11
arjan	but there really is no difference if you wake up 2 times per second, if you have 10 - 10 or 18 - 2	21:11
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arjan	those distributions are equivalent	21:11
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RST38h	ok	21:11
RST38h	thiago: correct	21:12
arjan	while under a grouping objective, the 18-2 would be favoured	21:12
thiago_home	RST38h: well, my patch would undo that	21:12
thiago_home	RST38h: the way I see it, if you want to keep the phase between timers, you need to use some construct to do that	21:12
RST38h	thiago: I suspect you want to keep that, at least in one thread	21:12
thiago_home	arjan: if you're interested, this is the current core algo: http://pastebin.ca/1896153	21:13
arjan	RST38h: only if you explicitly ask for it	21:13
arjan	RST38h: also if you don't keep synchronizing, you will not keep that 23 msec	21:13
RST38h	ok, so all timers are independent	21:13
thiago_home	yes, timers are independent	21:13
arjan	exit latencies and other system tasks will skew your timer	21:13
RST38h	even simpler	21:13
thiago_home	there's no mechanism to make them lock to each other right now	21:13
RST38h	and you have not got alarmd yet?	21:13
arjan	thiago_home: it seems Intel IT has blocked pastebin.ca	21:13
Macer	damnit	21:14
Macer	cliffhanger ending of the season of ncis	21:14
RST38h	arjan: proxy-us lets it through	21:14
Macer	bastards	21:14
RST38h	(or did, a few hours ago)	21:14
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thiago_home	arjan: http://qt.pastebin.com/dDuTmB4g	21:15
thiago_home	this time with syntax highlighting	21:16
thiago_home	the pastebin plasmoid doesn't set the highlighting to C++	21:16
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arjan	looks reasonable	21:16
thiago_home	hmm... lines 33 and 40 are wrong	21:17
thiago_home	they should really be +=	21:17
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thiago_home	arjan: I'd love to discuss with you how to pass the current coarseness to the kernel	21:19
thiago_home	and I'm not afraid of making syscalls myself :-)	21:19
arjan	just another select() system call with an extra argument	21:20
arjan	it's not liek we don't already have 4 variants of poll/select anyway	21:20
thiago_home	would epoll be more useful?	21:20
arjan	well poll not select, lets pretend select doesn't exist for new syscalls	21:20
arjan	nah	21:20
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thiago_home	poll is already ms-based	21:20
arjan	epoll solves the "webserver with thousands of connections"	21:20
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arjan	depends which poll you use	21:20
thiago_home	I haven't debugged why, but with poll(2), plasma-desktop wakes up less often than with select(2)	21:20
w00t_	thiago_home: that's odd	21:21
thiago_home	ah, ppoll has timespec	21:21
arjan	ppoll() yeah	21:21
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thiago_home	one extra detail: I don't control the actual sleep when the Glib mainloop is enabled	21:22
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arjan	different animal	21:22
arjan	is that the common model ?	21:22
thiago_home	yes, if Qt was compiled with Glib support	21:22
arjan	like required for dbus or something	21:22
thiago_home	no, it's not required for D-Bus	21:22
thiago_home	it's required by the Gtk+ style and the GStreamer backends to Phonon and QtMultimedia	21:22
arjan	the former I care less about	21:23
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arjan	but gstreamer for qtmultimedia we require	21:23
thiago_home	yeah	21:23
thiago_home	it can be disabled (i.e., use the Qt loop) by use of an environment variable	21:23
arjan	the netbook theme should really be native not some gtk+ thing	21:23
arjan	but gstreamer is essential	21:23
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thiago_home	the event loop selection is per-thread. I don't know if that helps the gstreamer case.	21:24
thiago_home	on the subject: should we use eventfd instead of pipes for "hey, thread, wake up" ?	21:25
CosmoHill	is there a meeting tonight?	21:27
thiago_home	good point, I meant to ask that too :-)	21:28
CosmoHill	thiago_home: doesn't look like there is one	21:31
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thiago_home	I'd imagine that too	21:31
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w00t_	thiago_home: does eventfd have tangible gains?	21:31
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thiago_home	"The kernel overhead of an eventfd file descriptor is much lower than that of a pipe, and only one file descriptor is required (versus the two required for a pipe)."	21:32
thiago_home	from the manpage	21:32
thiago_home	but, of course, that creates the problem I described to you once, w00t_	21:33
* w00t_ thinks back		21:33
thiago_home	it means we use different codepaths on Linux, thereby testing less the others	21:33
Robot101	signalfd would be good	21:33
w00t_	right	21:33
Robot101	but glib and qt don't have any signal API	21:33
CosmoHill	aah	21:33
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thiago_home	Robot101: signalfd is to get a signal firing	21:33
CosmoHill	my screen went weird	21:33
thiago_home	Robot101: there's an API for that for the QWS version of Qt	21:34
Robot101	yeah, but nobody actually solves it atm, which is crap	21:34
Robot101	ooh	21:34
Robot101	would be good to move to core	21:34
thiago_home	it's just a (Qt) signal emitted from QCoreApplication when the (Unix) signal is caught	21:34
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thiago_home	do you need to get a signal?	21:35
josemoreira	any tips for a tripe boot install with Meego? i have win7 and Mint atm	21:35
josemoreira	triple	21:35
arjan	signals suck anyway	21:35
arjan	they're SLOW	21:35
CosmoHill	hey lcuk, http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats.html check out your quote on there	21:36
arjan	you can spawn and kill a thread faster than deliver a signal	21:36
Robot101	isn't that one of the posix signal delivery options anyway?	21:36
Robot101	would presumably then be exactly the same speed as spawning a thread :)	21:37
* thiago_home goes on to watch the match		21:37
Robot101	arjan: crashdb.meego.com should probably escape the backtraces btw, we were pondering making some backtraces with javascript in just for a laugh, but decided it might be a bit much effort :)	21:38
Robot101	arjan: but some <foo> was disappearing from backtraces which is a bit annoying to work with	21:38
Robot101	I think the top three telepathy ones are fixed / being fixed now	21:38
thiago_home	arjan: ah, one more detail about the patch I'm making: I'm making all timers default to the adaptative mechanism	21:39
thiago_home	except for timers under 20 ms or over 20 seconds	21:40
Robot101	the reason to have some nicer API for signals is just for legacy reasons, because there are always a few ppl like to handle, like INT and TERM :)	21:40
RST38h	[mental note] Never trust Qt timers =)	21:40
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thiago_home	Robot101: timer.setType(QTimer::HighPrecision)	21:40
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thiago_home	Robot101: we could possibly add an Application Attribute to have quit() be called when SIGTERM is received	21:41
_Pete_	Robot101: everythinf to OO os always nice	21:41
w00t_	thiago_home: I'm pleased that you (presumably?) took into account my feedback about extremely low interval timers with that :)	21:41
thiago_home	Robot101: btw, I take it back. The Unix signal functionality is enabled on all Unix platforms.	21:42
thiago_home	it's just not documented	21:42
w00t_	thiago_home: patch time? :P	21:43
Robot101	\o/ (?!)	21:43
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thiago_home	QCoreApplication::watchUnixSignal and signal QCoreApplication::unixSignal()	21:43
thiago_home	git grep shows a total of 0 tests for them	21:45
thiago_home	so there may be dragons :-)	21:45
TSCHAKeee2	heheh	21:45
RST38h	There is always POSIX signals api	21:45
TSCHAKeee2	EDISTRACTED	21:45
TSCHAKeee2	;)	21:45
RST38h	/usr/include/signal.h you know...	21:46
thiago_home	for example, we call select(2) in an EINTR-loop	21:46
CosmoHill	thiago_home: do you develop Qt?	21:46
TSCHAKeee2	but but but...that would mean using...PLAIN...C! SHOCK HORROR	21:46
TSCHAKeee2	;)	21:46
thiago_home	that might completely defeat the functionality	21:46
RST38h	It is perfecly usable from C++	21:46
thiago_home	CosmoHill: no, I just add bugs and crazy stuff to it	21:46
thiago_home	:-P	21:46
CosmoHill	:)	21:46
TSCHAKeee2	i know, i was joking.	21:46
CosmoHill	sounds good to me	21:46
TSCHAKeee2	;)	21:46
w00t_	thiago_home: I'm happy to try add tests too	21:47
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lpotter_	actually, thiago is a code generating bot	21:47
w00t_	lpotter_: ++	21:47
thiago_home	and I cringe every time I realise how early lpotter_ wakes up :-P	21:47
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w00t_	also true	21:47
TSCHAKeee2	crazy $)@# morning people	21:48
w00t_	(WTF, lpotter_ :P)	21:48
TSCHAKeee2	:P	21:48
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w00t_	it must be what, nearly 5am?	21:48
lpotter_	no, I wake up late. its still night time, not morning	21:48
thiago_home	4:48 am in Brisbane	21:48
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TSCHAKeee2	geez, by that point, i stopped having sex around 2-3am.. i'd need more than a couple hours sleep :P :)	21:49
lpotter_	nice, quiet, no kids, no neighbors...	21:49
lpotter_	can get work done	21:49
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* CosmoHill blinks		21:50
CosmoHill	I seem to have missing something	21:50
CosmoHill	one of my class mates brought his son into uni today	21:51
CosmoHill	I had to be careful I didn't hit him with a trolly full of computers	21:51
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CosmoHill	typically the lift nearest the end of the building we're in wasn't working	21:52
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lcuk	CosmoHill, O_O	21:56
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lcuk	when did i say that!	21:56
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CosmoHill	no idea	22:01
CosmoHill	more importantly, who did you say it to? :/	22:01
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lcuk	ill find out CosmoHill google isnt finding any hits so it looks like public irc bot didnt see it potentially	22:02
CosmoHill	maybe	22:02
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CosmoHill	iirc those stats are made from private logs	22:03
* CosmoHill pokes trem		22:03
lcuk	ahh i thought they came from public ones	22:03
CosmoHill	it's not in my logs	22:03
CosmoHill	if those stats have taught us anything, it's that I talk to much :/	22:04
lcuk	ahh	22:05
lcuk	Jun 23 10:02:40 <LinuxCode>lcuk, Ive been up all night	22:05
lcuk	Jun 23 10:02:47 <LinuxCode>ohh lcuk I have a new toy	22:05
lcuk	Jun 23 10:03:06 <lcuk>yeah, your vibrator collection is growing!	22:05
lcuk	Jun 23 10:04:14 <LinuxCode>lcuk, cat cam	22:05
LinuxCode	lcuk, oi	22:05
CosmoHill	if you remove the word "cat" it becomes creepy	22:05
lcuk	:D	22:05
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lcuk	how are you doin lc	22:06
LinuxCode	if you remove lcuk permanently from the face of the Earth, it becomes less creepy	22:06
LinuxCode	lcuk, you live in Northumberland ?	22:06
lcuk	thats easy to do	22:06
LinuxCode	rofl	22:06
lcuk	nope	22:06
lcuk	how much is trip to ISS nowadays?	22:07
* LinuxCode redirects that nutter who shot 3 people your way		22:07
LinuxCode	lol	22:07
LinuxCode	lcuk, haha	22:07
LinuxCode	lcuk, Im good mate	22:07
LinuxCode	what about you ?	22:07
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w00t_	CosmoHill: you should be quiet then :-D	22:07
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CosmoHill	there are many things I should be and do, just add it to the list	22:08
lcuk	im k, i keep looking at a spec document and not liking wording for it so rewriting it	22:08
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LinuxCode	lcuk, sounds like being back at Uni	22:08
LinuxCode	lol	22:08
lcuk	hah	22:08
* CosmoHill is in uni :/		22:08
* LinuxCode feels for CosmoHill		22:09
CosmoHill	lcuk: I've made a simple distro using RPM5	22:09
lcuk	hows cat cam coming on?	22:09
LinuxCode	lcuk, I had some teething problems	22:09
CosmoHill	from the cat or the cam?	22:09
LinuxCode	still testing, to see if its hardware or flash related	22:09
LinuxCode	CosmoHill, cam	22:09
LinuxCode	cat is fine	22:09
CosmoHill	I was thinking of making a hamster cam	22:10
lcuk	well LinuxCode you did choose the worst place on the cat to store batteries	22:10
LinuxCode	well, apart from going through the cat flap	22:10
LinuxCode	lcuk, its in a sealed plastic box	22:10
LinuxCode	thats not the issue ;-}	22:10
lcuk	schrodingers cat?	22:10
CosmoHill	wait, the camera is mounted on the cat?	22:10
LinuxCode	CosmoHill, collar	22:10
CosmoHill	ooooo	22:10
CosmoHill	I thought it was a static camera in the location the cat is most of the time	22:10
LinuxCode	no	22:11
lcuk	how the hell is a hamster going to clug around an outside broadcast unit?	22:11
LinuxCode	lcuk, haha	22:11
LinuxCode	give it ..... 5-10 years	22:11
LinuxCode	it will be possible	22:11
lcuk	beefcake hamster training course?	22:11
* trem ping CosmoHill		22:12
CosmoHill	he lives!	22:14
trem	yes ;)	22:14
CosmoHill	lcuk: the hamster cam would be mounted above his cage	22:14
trem	and he deams of meego on his n900 ;)	22:14
CosmoHill	trem: I see you say "good night, sweet dreams" but never anything else	22:14
CosmoHill	so you got me curious	22:14
trem	CosmoHill: I'm not a dev of meego, just curious about it	22:15
lcuk	CosmoHill, i believe tram also says "good morning"	22:15
CosmoHill	me too :)	22:15
trem	I hope I could use it on my N900	22:15
lcuk	trem	22:15
CosmoHill	lcuk: there's a morning?	22:15
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lcuk	somewhere	22:16
trem	and an os with everything free, so I could look/play with the kernel	22:16
lcuk	trem, what do you do in daytime then when idling here	22:16
Stskeeps	trem: play with meego then - feel free to track our hardware adaptation's work, wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900	22:16
Stskeeps	trem: we can't guarantee full 'free' (as in open) due to BME, SGX (3d) and some firmwares, but it's bloody close.	22:17
trem	lcuk: other stuff, like watching tv, or contribute to mandriva ;)	22:17
trem	Stskeeps: why ? because it's impossible to use this hardware with free software ?	22:20
Stskeeps	trem: SGX is imgtec which is a problem on most ARM hardware. wifi firmwares are also traditionally a bit troublesome	22:20
Stskeeps	but if there's 6 blobs and rest is OSS..	22:20
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Stskeeps	and only related to hardware adaptation, then i'm (personally) fine	22:21
lcuk	Stskeeps, technically cant people use the xfce desktop and run on things not needing gl?	22:21
Stskeeps	lcuk: we do that on n810	22:21
lcuk	so why cant that be done on 900 for one less closed component	22:21
lcuk	for those that want it of course	22:21
Stskeeps	lcuk: not impossible, just write a .ks	22:22
Stskeeps	but it wouldn't be handset UX	22:22
trem	Stskeeps: a blob is a very bad thing when you want to debug, or change a kernel release	22:22
lcuk	but it would run the handset apps?	22:22
Stskeeps	lcuk: there's a problem with libmeegotouch, you need to run it in software rendering, which is awesomely slow.	22:23
Stskeeps	normal qt should work	22:23
Stskeeps	trem: kernel release no, we're actively following 2.6.35-rc3, now rc4	22:23
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Stskeeps	trem: debug - well, libEGL/libGLESv2 - i think debug symbols may exist, but i can't be sure.	22:24
Stskeeps	it's comparable to a stripped lib you're using, i guess	22:24
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CosmoHill	trem: what do you do on mandriva?	22:24
trem	Stskeeps: meego use the very lastest kernel release ?	22:24
trem	CosmoHill: I'm a contributor, I do some package	22:25
Stskeeps	trem: yes, it actively tracks kernel releases to my knowledge	22:25
CosmoHill	ooo	22:25
Stskeeps	trem: (this might be synced with the 'invasive changes' period in release process)	22:25
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trem	Stskeeps: nice, who manage kernel for meego ?	22:27
Stskeeps	trem: the meego kernel committers, taking upstream - there's a page on it regarding hardware enablement on meego.com i believe	22:27
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CosmoHill	I think I should build CLFS with X11 and nouveau	22:28
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CosmoHill	that should help me understand meego a bit better	22:28
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* CosmoHill fixs the NTP bootscript for CLFS		22:41
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* CosmoHill gives up		22:45
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CosmoHill	so did everyone enjoy the meeting?	23:07
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trip0	no	23:10
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