IRC log of #meego for Sunday, 2010-07-04

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divecan anyone give me an example command line for starting qemu with the open source n900 files?01:02
CosmoHilldive: look on the wiki, it's on there01:02
diveqemu-system-arm -hda meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-sda.raw -boot c -kernel meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-vmlinuz-2.6.33.3-11.2-n900 -M n90001:02
divethis doesn't work - says no boot device01:02
diveI thought I'd read the wiki but I'll have a another look01:03
CosmoHillhave you checked the md5sum?01:03
diveyep01:03
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diveCosmoHill, as far as I can see the wiki only shows instructions for the closed source nokia image01:05
diveI've tried that and it works but I can't any way of resizing the image, or adding new drives, so I can get enough space to install gcc etc01:06
CosmoHillah I think i see what you are trying to do01:07
CosmoHillif you want to compile things for the nokia i think you need to install the meego SDK on fedora01:07
divedoesn't that need an intel cpu though (at least for chroot)?01:07
CosmoHilli believe it does01:08
divethere must be a way of getting meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-sda.raw running in qemu, or why supply it?01:08
CosmoHillit has the same processor requirements as a running OS01:08
CosmoHillit might be best to ask tomorrow01:09
diveok01:09
CosmoHillit's currently midnight in europe01:09
diveI'll ask on the forum too - just signed up01:09
diveCosmoHill, yes I know01:11
dive<-- late bird ;-)01:11
CosmoHillany worms today?01:11
divehaha01:11
diveactually it's 11pm in UK01:12
divewill be nice to make some apps for n90001:12
CosmoHillyou're from the UK?01:13
CosmoHilloh and I'm timing out :(01:13
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:18
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smharany expectations on when the first meego/maemo device to be released, I am about to buy an N900 and want to be sure it will be the only thing available for some while :-)01:45
thiago_akademyno one will tell you when unannounced devices will ship01:46
thiago_akademyhowever, there are no announced devices, so it should be at least a couple of months01:46
Jaffasmhar: Nokia have said they are planning to bring out a MeeGo device this year (towards the second half/end). It'll be OMAP3; capacitive screen and similar screen res to the N900.01:47
_Pete_smhar: is n900/meamo so bad you eager to wait this new one ?01:48
smhar_Pete_, not that bad, it is just that expensive :-)01:48
thiago_akademywell, when new devices come out, the N900 will get cheaper01:49
_Pete_do you thing meego anyhow is going to help that?01:49
JaffaMeeGo'll set up a pre-destination paradox timeloop which'll result in the N900 getting cheaper *before* it's released.01:49
JaffaWibbly wobbly timey wimey.01:49
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smhar_Pete_, actually, I do not want to be in the same situation I had been many times with nokia, and last when I got my N97, where I am holding the latest Nokia 'best of the best' only to discover they will release a much better one next month :-)01:50
thiago_akademyuh... isn't that a "duh" ?01:50
thiago_akademyof course there will be better devices01:50
thiago_akademyif not next month, then the one after01:51
thiago_akademyif you wanted an N900 that wouldn't be replaced for months, you should've bought it in January :-)01:51
JaffaIf you wait for the next best thing in computers, you'll always be waiting.01:51
_Pete_smhar: thats something I have not experieneced it many years so better veto01:51
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smharthiago_akademy, as a true linux device, -at an extent, the first dreambox is not only usable to me, it can even do anything the new models can do than does not depend on new hardware requirements01:52
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* _Pete_ has too dreambox01:53
smharI can not say the same with any mobile I had/have01:53
_Pete_longest uptime since powercutdown01:53
thiago_akademywell, maybe replaced wasn't the best word01:54
thiago_akademysuperseded, maybe01:54
ShadowJKI'm a pessimist, I'd be surprised if there was a handheld meego device before christmas01:54
thiago_akademynote to self: release device on December 2301:54
ShadowJKThat's fine, that still means nobody will actually be able to get one before february ;-)01:55
_Pete_ShadowJK: what would surpise yuo then ?01:56
Jaffathiago_akademy: Nokia ship dates are always a little woolly.01:56
Jaffas/thiago_akademy/ShadowJK/01:56
infobotJaffa meant: ShadowJK: Nokia ship dates are always a little woolly.01:56
ShadowJKya01:56
JaffaShadowJK: 2H10 means Dec 31st01:56
ShadowJK_Pete_, well I'd maybe at best expect a paper release before christmas, and actual devices reaching people who want them in late January - early february :P01:57
DocScrutinizerhmm, more like 19. Apr 201101:57
* Jaffa wonders when Nokia's financial year runs ;-)01:57
_Pete_ShadowJK: but you know, that will never happen with Nokia ?01:58
ShadowJKWhat will never happen?01:58
_Pete_paper release01:58
JaffaTechnically it was done with the N900 and N810.01:58
JaffaIt was launched a few weeks/months before most people actually could get it apart from the press.01:59
JaffaSame as Apple do01:59
* thiago_akademy had an N900 in July last year01:59
ShadowJKYeah :-)01:59
smharI can justify shelling money for a new mobile then, not April but maybe july 'again' :-)01:59
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thiago_akademybut then it was still labelled "N00"01:59
Jaffathiago_akademy: I had one in August; but we're not most people :-p01:59
* Jaffa 's was unlabelled, which was quite stylish.02:00
thiago_akademyfake mechanics?02:00
ShadowJKand you :P02:00
JaffaBut it got the shitty "audio quality dropping" bug and went back earlier this year02:00
DocScrutinizerthiago_akademy: so this has been a preproduction device then02:00
thiago_akademyyeah, prototypes02:00
Jaffathiago_akademy: No, dunno why it was unlabelled. Must have been some very narrow window between prototype and production02:00
thiago_akademyyou know, we need them to write the software02:01
* _Pete_ has been doing softwr for that 2years02:01
smharI am planning to use 'my' N900 which I will probably but tomorrow, to do many things including to finally learn python02:02
_Pete_and for now on trying to do same for meego02:02
DocScrutinizerI *paid* my N900 ~july 2009. But that meant I wasn't able to put my greedy fingers on it before it was postponed the 4th time and it got November02:02
thiago_akademyyou couldn't have paid for it in July02:02
thiago_akademythe device was announced in September02:03
thiago_akademyI did order it in October on my own, but then I had to cancel the order02:03
DocScrutinizerthiago_akademy: hmm maybe I put aside the money for it in July, and had to wait 1 or two postponed announcement dates until webshop Germany woke the cashier02:05
rangeDocScrutinizer: I ordered on 2nd of September. That should have been one of the first possible dates.02:06
thiago_akademysounds about right02:07
DocScrutinizerif they'd sent me one of the *early* prototypes in maybe january (yes!), I might have fixed a bunch of hardware flaws that bite us now02:07
thiago_akademyit was announced on Nokia World last year02:07
_Pete_DocScrutinizer: what are those?02:07
DocScrutinizermessed up kbd matrix, for example02:07
thiago_akademyearly proto HW is very broken02:08
_Pete_DocScrutinizer: and that causes what?02:08
ShadowJK(emacs doesn't work)02:09
thiago_akademyand the device dies easily, so it's not very useful for outsiders02:09
DocScrutinizerthat causes failure on telling apart several N-key rollovers - like shift+FnJ/K02:09
DocScrutinizeror similar02:09
DocScrutinizer_Pete_: BOM: +/- 0.00$02:09
_Pete_what ever that is, never occured with own device02:10
smharDocScrutinizer, does the same big exists now?02:10
smharhow can I check it02:11
DocScrutinizer_Pete_: other example: electrocution path from LP5523 INT to SoC GPIO, which clearly is a massive BUG02:11
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_Pete_DocScrutinizer: ok, I am just poor coder, dont know anything about hose02:12
ShadowJKI think he means he found a way for software to fry N900 components ;)02:12
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DocScrutinizer_Pete_: you never noticed it, just because nobody is using the non-working 3-key combinations for anything, for quite obvious reasons02:12
smhars/big/bug02:12
_Pete_yeah :)02:13
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yes02:13
DocScrutinizerusing a documented (in the "NDA'd" datasheet) function of LP5523 indicator light controller will possibly fry the whole SoC02:14
_Pete_DocScrutinizer: mmh, what are you using for this? ui spec?02:15
DocScrutinizer_Pete_: sorry, I use for what?02:15
_Pete_for what you said above02:16
smharthre N900 is sold locally here @ $544 at the cheapest place02:16
ShadowJKI don't think the UI spec has been leaked yet (and I'm unsure anyone wants to read it?)02:16
DocScrutinizer_Pete_: I use the datasheet of the chip. As it's about hardware, I use hardware documentation02:17
smharand they are selling it -as an option- in twelve installments of $45.4/month,02:17
smharby the time the meego phone is release, I will have paid full for N900, hopefully02:18
_Pete_DocScrutinizer: then you have n900 ?02:18
DocScrutinizersure02:18
DocScrutinizer:-D02:18
smharso I hope they Nokia will take their sweet time this time :-)02:18
_Pete_;)02:19
DocScrutinizer[2010-07-04 01:02:38] <DocScrutinizer> I *paid* my N900 ~july 2009. But that meant I wasn't able to put my greedy fingers on it before it was postponed the 4th time and it got November02:19
_Pete_yeah02:19
_Pete_missed that too02:19
DocScrutinizerjust *maybe* I even could have implemented usb hostmode ootb - as I'm aware of problems you may occasionally encounter with certain cert authorities, and also of delays caused by BSP/driver/OS development, and how theese02:22
DocScrutinizerthese two often interact02:22
DocScrutinizerfor sure at least BME would have been a completely different piece of software02:23
_Pete_then maybe I have dev parts of n900 conversations02:24
_Pete_but dont be quite sure which much02:24
thiago_akademyDocScrutinizer: have you got any of the N900++ protos?02:26
DocScrutinizerlol, no02:26
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DocScrutinizerthiago_akademy: tbh I'm not even aware there are any N900++ protos. Though I guess Nokia EE is supposed to have them by now. Probably it's even almost to late to the design second checking I usually perform best on02:33
DocScrutinizerAs - regarding the interval Nokia releaste new Nxxx, and the sparse rumours about 'meego' devices - they need to start PV phase right now02:35
smharwhat is PV?02:36
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DocScrutinizerProduction Validation02:45
DocScrutinizerrunning a first small sample of maybe 100 or 2000 devices thru the fab, and check for yield etc02:46
DocScrutinizerthen do extensive tests on these prototypes02:46
smharDocScrutinizer, how long does it normally take?02:48
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salman_is/will meego have the same problem syncing with linux as maemo?02:53
_Pete_what is that?02:54
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salman__Pete_, easy and direct method of synchronizing address book/contact, calender, notes etc with linux02:56
_Pete_hopefully not02:56
_Pete_would be much easier to implement than vuzzuzuz sound in bg02:58
salman_never suffered that :-)02:59
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ShadowJKyawn03:06
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ShadowJKas long as gainroot still works and I can hit the right ui elements of standard gtk, it'll be worth it03:07
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LoboDeGubbiahi / hola03:10
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LoboDeGubbiau know ow can I mount a NTFS partition ?03:11
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CosmoHillcuas03:29
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Brazzaanyone got meego preview working in a working dualboot  config?04:18
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sivangMorning all08:39
sivangIs http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation the right way to go about setting up meego for development inside a virtual machine ?08:40
_Pete_morning08:47
_Pete_I think it's more to build image for real devic08:47
_Pete_http://meego.com/developers/getting-started08:48
_Pete_this is how to setup dev-env08:48
_Pete_for apps?08:48
* dm8tbr had quite some problems yesterday to get a working mic2 setup :(08:52
sivang_Pete_: for apps and possbily more08:52
sivang_Pete_: so using the sdk is better than trying with VirtualBox? At least I see that there's the Netbook UX with it08:55
sivang_Pete_: Is there a way to get the Handheld UX as well?08:55
sivang_Pete_: I'm actually looking for desktop layout and some panel modifications, so I thought I'd better havea VM or so08:55
* sivang wonders if MeeGo will run on non Core 2 platform / non atom08:58
_Pete_I guess the getting... link above will results kind of vm08:59
_Pete_which have complete desktop inside that09:00
_Pete_.. in case you have intel gfx09:00
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dm8tbrsivang: works on arm09:06
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sivang_Pete_: ah, but the text there says it is just the window manager and a terminal, I guess it is not clear.09:22
* sivang wonders also how to get the latest meego netbook besides getting the sources and build yourself.09:24
sivangthis image is dated 24 may, seems a bit old09:25
sivangdm8tbr: I see, but for easy development a proper vm would be instrumental09:29
sivang_Pete_: oh I misread. I see, let me check if I have intel gfx, since I think I have an nvidia chipset :)09:31
sivang_Pete_: err, nvidia geforce 960009:32
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dm8tbrsivang: if there is no ready image you can use mic2 - but be warned, cryptic and not well documented process09:42
sivangdm8tbr: I see, maybe we can change that, and add docs.09:44
sivangdm8tbr: where is the doc you worked with?09:44
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MyrttiMoin09:48
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dm8tbrguten morgen09:48
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dm8tbrsivang: http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation09:50
dm8tbrsivang: since I'm using debian testing I ended up using the git checkout and running the test to pull in all dependencies09:50
sivangdm8tbr: I use Ubuntu. Were you able to use the image inside a virutal machine application?09:52
dm8tbrsivang: I'm creating an image for an actual device09:52
dm8tbrand no I haven't tested it yet. it still needs some manual changes09:52
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sivangdm8tbr: I see. I'll go check if the CPU my lg t380 support that instruction09:56
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reenignEesreveRwhy are all downlaods in .img format? isn't ISO more useful? is there any easy+free way to convert?10:19
sivangreenignEesreveR: this is an ISO :-) just rename it, as the instructions say10:20
reenignEesreveRhmmm...10:21
reenignEesreveRoh well, lemme try then10:21
sivangreenignEesreveR: I deduced that from here http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_VirtualBox10:23
sivangreenignEesreveR: don't hold me accountable :)10:23
reenignEesreveR:(10:23
amjadok is there any plan to have oo in netbook version of meego say in 1.1 ??10:24
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dm8tbrbesides mic2 is supposed to convert images between all sorts of formats10:26
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MasterMatanhello, where i can find meego sdk for linux (ubuntu)10:35
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sivangMasterMatan: http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux10:37
MasterMatanthank you so much :)10:38
sivangMasterMatan: you are welcome10:39
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meegodotbyhi all11:00
amjadhi meego11:00
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meegodotbyi install 1.0 in virtualbox 3.1.2 on HP mini 510111:05
meegodotbyand11:05
meegodotbyhave a problems11:06
meegodotbywhere there can be a manual from developers?11:06
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meegodotbyand where bug page?11:08
meegodotbywho speaks on russian?11:11
thiago_akademythere's a bugzilla on the website11:13
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meegodotbyok11:15
meegodotbythe question about bug page taken off11:16
sivangmeegodotby: how did you install it?11:16
meegodotbystep by step?11:17
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sivangmeegodotby: more to ask - what doc did you use?11:21
meegodotbyafter loading installed the system and last answers all hangs with dark screen11:23
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meegodotbyi wish to prepare manual for installation in Russian for meego.by11:26
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meegodotbyalso i wish to find a starting point on a theme with documentation11:28
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meegodotbyi am already familiar with http://bugs.meego.com/query.cgi11:30
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meegodotbyexcuse, something has found11:54
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reenignEesreveRwhen i boot meego natively on my laptop, it works well. but when i run it in virtualbox, it shows a black screen ... any idea if i can run it in emulator on my machine? (intel core i3)12:12
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meegodotbyreenignEesreveR: too most, what a videocard12:38
meegodotbyhost OS?12:38
reenignEesreveRwindows 7 is the host OS12:38
reenignEesreveR64 bit12:38
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reenignEesreveRand i've got builtin intel media graphics accelerator HD12:39
meegodotby945?12:39
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meegodotbyintel chipset?12:43
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reenignEesreveRummm.... isnt 945 oldie?13:02
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niqthi13:02
reenignEesreveRhi13:03
reenignEesreveRmy X server won't start :(13:04
niqtI want to start using the SDK for handsets, but I can not find information on how to set it up. The emulator is for version neetbook (I would also start to see the touch famework)13:05
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Surfaniqt, how about qt sdk simply, or what are you trying to do?13:07
niqti should simulator for handset, and try touch framework13:08
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Surfaniqt, someone summarized the need this way "for application devlopers nokia qt sdk should be enough, and meego sdk more for platform developers" i don't know really, but sounds reasonable, which one are you? :)13:12
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niqti can sue nokia sdk how for maemo, but i want install handset version on N900 to try it13:13
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niqthow i can install touch framework on sdk (this is my question)?13:16
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sivanghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRUvOWRK-N0&feature=channel14:35
sivangthis is what happens when you go too far with (a)iPhones :-)14:36
sivanga nice laugh for a sunday14:36
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zhasha_so, meego devs, I take it you dropped Gtk+ and related libraries completely?15:18
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TSCHAKeee2.15:39
Jaffazhasha_: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-July/003650.html15:41
zhasha_Jaffa: do you know if there are any plans to write a theme engine for Gtk+ so it doesn't look like something straight out of 1995?15:42
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Jaffazhasha: Well, I believe the plan will go: get gtk+ working; get hildon working; get them looking integrated15:56
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LantiziaHey why use brtfs when it's not ready yet18:22
sevlayo no se18:22
Lantizia? ? ?18:23
lcukLantizia, perhaps because meego isnt thinking about now, but the future18:24
Lantiziagiven 1.0 is out now... that is not the future18:24
lcukoh cool, where can i buy a meego handset?18:25
Lantizianot far in to the future :)18:25
Lantiziaand certainly not before btrfs is declared to be stable18:25
Lantizia-not18:25
Lantiziayou know what I meant :)18:26
lcukof course18:26
lcukso what does it need to have done to be declared stable18:26
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Lantizianeeds the day where I can walk in to #btrfs and say "is this for production use?" and not get laughed at18:27
Lantiziagot a 2TB disk and I was wondering ext4 vs btrfs... which is why I'm wondering why meego uses it18:27
lcukthats easy, we can just mute everyone in hte channel18:28
lcukbut i mean a real test18:28
lcukit would be awesome to get space rating for stuff like this "our software is used on the ISS" :D18:29
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Lantizialcuk, http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/btrfs-tools18:35
LantiziaWARNING: Btrfs is under heavy development, and is not suitable for any uses other than benchmarking and review.18:35
LantiziaI consider Debian to be the masters of what is and is not stable :)18:35
lcukas do many people :)18:35
CosmoHillhey lcuk18:35
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lcukhey CosmoHill mikhas18:36
LantiziaWell Btrfs is claimed to be another 2 years until it's totally ready18:36
LantiziaSo I'll find MeeGo handsets in the shops 2 years from now?18:36
CosmoHilllcuk: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/source.tar.bz218:37
CosmoHillmy university C++ assignment code :)18:37
lcukLantizia, that sounds reasonable ;) its how far before the 2 years it can be done in lol18:37
Lantizialcuk, and there was me thinking we'd see a MeeGo handset before the year was done18:38
lcukCosmoHill, why have you named it "source"18:38
CosmoHillit's only temp18:38
mikhashi lcuk18:38
lcukhey mikhas how is #miniature going for you18:38
lcuk(i saw you bob in this morning after i got up)18:38
LantiziaI take it theres no urgency for MeeGo?  i.e. no handset manufacturers have set a date of when they need it for?18:39
lcukCosmoHill, put your source on a git repository :p18:39
CosmoHillit's in svn18:39
mikhaslcuk, currently albanc is very active there, to get this p2p stuff working. myself, I havent done much at all for it lately =(18:39
CosmoHill(svn over ssh)18:39
lcukheh mikhas have you been checking out testing the branched? albanc managed to have online games i heard18:40
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* lcuk is diving back into liqbase branches anyway, ive got a headsplitting portrait patch to sort out18:41
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LantiziaI take it theres no answer to that then?18:41
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CosmoHillLantizia: as far as I know there isn't anyone18:43
LantiziaLG claim to be launching the GW990 2nd half 2010 with meego18:44
Lantiziathats... now18:44
Lantizia:)18:44
w00t_the GW990 was cancelled18:44
Lantiziaok so there is no rush for meego then as there are no handsets expecting to use it?18:44
Lantiziai.e. were not going to see an N910 at xmas with MeeGo 1.2 and it's half finished with a shit load of bugs18:45
* w00t_ shrugs18:45
w00t_http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/1510 is worth a read18:45
Lantiziaalready read it18:45
CosmoHilloh that's it18:45
CosmoHillI'm installing NTP on my server18:46
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* CosmoHill compiles a NTP package for his server19:02
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CosmoHillon the 16th of May the Laser was 50 years old :)19:08
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lcukCosmoHill, i do hope you said "laser" in dr evils voice19:11
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TSCHAKeee2and in celebration, the US Government installed two bases on the moon, Moon Unit Alpha, and Moon Unit Zappa...19:19
TSCHAKeee2:P19:19
CosmoHillhttp://black-flag.co.uk/files/ntp.spec19:20
CosmoHillhow does this look to people?19:20
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meegodotbywhat a root filesystem of meego default?20:48
CosmoHillbtfs20:49
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meegodotbywhat a kernel module20:50
meegodotby?20:50
meegodotbyfor btfs20:51
CosmoHillnot sure20:52
CosmoHillmight be build in20:52
CosmoHillhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODIzOA20:52
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meegodotbythanks  for the link20:58
meegodotbyBtrfs has been in the mainline Linux kernel since the Linux 2.6.2920:59
amjadlsmod will list all modules build in meego21:07
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thiago_akademyno, it will list the modules loaded21:12
thiago_akademymodules available are in modprobe -l21:13
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amjadsorry , messed up my commands21:16
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CosmoHilltop gear :)22:03
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kniuI just installed this OS,23:08
kniuand though I'm impressed by its slickness, there's some major issues.23:08
kniuhow come the internet craps out randomly every few minutes or so?23:09
kniuand where's the package manager?23:09
kniuand how do I access my existing ntfs partition?23:09
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CosmoHillkniu: check on the forums for the ntfs thing23:27
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