IRC log of #meego for Saturday, 2010-07-03

Junnuto make some apps for the meego i have to install linux with the meego sdk? not possible with the qt creator?00:00
Sagew00t_: I think there is more than 1.0 + handset ux eventhough that was the original plan.00:00
w00t_Junnu: the two are different things.. as I understand it, for platform development, you'll want the meego SDK.. for apps development - you'll want the Creator SDK00:01
SageBecause if that would have been just 1.0+handset they would have not released more than the handset repo, right?00:01
* w00t_ has no idea what actually got released, he just built images of it. :-P00:02
SageI don't mind if there has been other development as well in the addition to the handset.00:02
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Junnu"MeeGo applications are written in C++ using the MeeGo SDK, which includes Qt 4.6.2. "00:04
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Sagewell, that latest "release" includes qt 4.7 prerelease.00:05
Kaadlajkhandheld image has Qt 4.7 and it has no proper SDK00:05
Kaadlajkhandset :-000:06
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Junnuhmm...sdk should be on the way if there is going to be meego phone release soon00:07
Kaadlajkyou can build your own chroot
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lbtanyone around here know about partx and device-mapper00:28
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zoddohow can I set the cpu frequence? my netbook uses 800 khz and it's quite unuseful00:34
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CosmoHillin the BIOS?00:36
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zoddoi will try, thanks!00:39
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Aardoh well. was just going to tell him that cpu frequency probably will increase an load, as most likely on-demand cpufreq governor is loaded00:40
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Kaadlajkstill 800khz :-000:41
jausmusMHz ;)00:42
jausmusyour CPU speed should auto-increase based on CPU load00:42
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CosmoHillmine goes from 1.6Ghz to 2Ghz00:44
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CosmoHillI remember some idiot saying about how their computer wasn't running at full speed00:45
CosmoHillso the disabled the slow down feature00:45
lcukCosmoHill, like your new pooters00:45
lcukare those installing in uni?00:45
lcuki remember doing that over summer at my college00:45
CosmoHillI got told to move it today00:48
CosmoHillso I was walking up and down the corridor with computers on it00:49
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lcuklol CosmoHill you need a cart00:50
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CosmoHillit was fine until i found out that 3 NECs are heavy00:51
CosmoHillso the feet stuck to the desk00:51
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tremnite all, sweet dreams01:42
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w00t_quiet night.. :)02:02
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ScottishDuckeveryone is quietly weeping over their broken n90002:04
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lcukmy n900 works better than ever :)02:06
lcukwhy doesnt yours?02:06
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skynetsstupid n90002:08
skynetsand meego is fail02:08
skynetscant wait to the the iphone02:09
skynetsjailbreak it02:09
skynetsand be a better phone in every aspect02:09
lcukskynets, the n900 has maemo and meego and open source around it - every day it exists it grows stronger and more capable.02:10
skynetsits open source02:10
skynetsprove why open source is better (in this case)02:11
skynetsits not actually02:11
skynetsthe iOS has proven that open source cant catch up to a closed comercial os like the iphone os02:11
skynetsthe more open source software tries to EMULATE the iphone02:11
skynetsthe more the fail02:11
lcukbecause i get to write amazing things like this:
lcukand i do not look at what something is today, i look at what it can become02:12
lcukyou do not judge how the flowers in your garden will look  based on the seeds02:12
skynetspretty smooth vid02:12
lcukbut anyway :) im off02:13
skynetsthats good02:13
skynetsbut the OS itself sucks02:13
skynetsfor mainstream02:13
lcukthe os is mostly by the community - you just complained at the whole world02:13
lcukbe a part of making it better02:13
skynetsno no02:13
skynetsim against nokia for selling me a device that wasnt what i thought it was02:14
skynetsi trusted them02:14
skynetsand they ditched it02:14
lcukwaht did you think it was?02:14
lcukditched what?02:14
skynetswtf did 1.2 bring? im still getting major bugs02:14
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lcukskynets, sure, but we squashed over 300 bugs to bring it02:15
lcukbut you may use a tiny fraction of the operating system so wouldnt notice every one02:15
lcukwe have extended your battery life and stabilised things and made space for your apps and got a whole new version of qt there02:16
skynetswhy did they ditch official meego support on the n90002:16
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lcukand set the ground for ovi interaction and new games and all sorts of stuff02:16
skynetswhy is ovi maps outdated02:16
Robot101skynets: nothing was ditched, do you get angry at dell for not porting windows 7 to a PC you bought last year?02:16
skynetswhy is the ovi store so empty02:16
lcukskynets, different concern - meego is not a direct nokia thing, its combined wit hlots of things02:16
diveany clues on how to resize the qemu nand image? I followed every howto I could find on the net and nothing works. I need space to install software and libs.02:16
lcukand from what i see - theres no meego products anywhere02:16
Robot101akoma1s: there's no requirement for every new software to come to every new device...02:16
Robot101hrm, how did I screw that up02:17
Robot101skynets: ^^02:17
lcukheh Robot101 \o evening02:17
Robot101lcuk: evening, hows it going?02:17
Robot101the pub we were at closed their garden at 11 so they closed the doors02:17
Robot101everyone moved inside and it started getting reeeeeeeealy hot02:17
lcukarggg not good02:17
Robot101glad to be back at home with a fan on :)02:18
GAN900No AC? :P02:18
Robot101GAN900: it's not very common in the UK02:18
GAN900Yeah, so I understand02:18
Robot101I guess more in offices, but pubs, restaurants, etc... its not hot enough usually02:18
skynetsits too bad that the n900 isnt in the competitive market... its more in a developper haven which focuses on producing stuff like remote controllig toy helicopters and making ps3 controllers instead of focusing on software that are any useful for mainstream... all 56 of them.02:18
lcukian was talkign about coming down next week Robot101 which nights are best for beer afterwards02:18
Robot101or if it is, only for 4-6 weeks02:18
GAN900A building without AC here is 1 in 100002:18
lcukskynets, i really want remote controlled helicopters02:19
lcukREALLY :D02:19
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lcukGAN900, old fashioned pubs dont even cool the beer!02:19
Robot101skynets: the N900 was, unfortunately, positioned as kinda technology demo - for whatever reason, commercial, strategic, etc, they decided not to promote it as a full Nxx or Nx device, and to do more work on the platform before putting a lot of marketing behind it :(02:20
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Robot101skynets: so, the ovi store (and lack of developer buy-in) is all a follow-on from that02:20
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lcukRobot101, talk to you later about next week02:20
GAN900Because Nokia management is silly02:20
Robot101they've not missold or mislead IMO, it's a phone where there's an Xterm out of the box and a platform with its own open source community, and it's a pretty solid product for what it's sold to do02:21
Robot101but you can't expect the iphone appstore to appear on it if they cancelled the platform when they released the device02:21
skynetsthe result of all this is what? those who payed 500-800 bucks for their phone end up with an outdated brick with people jumping ship before the phone is a worthless unsupported failure02:21
skynetsthose jumping ship include the very few developpers02:21
Robot101people can flash unsupported meego builds on their N900 and develop for that platform02:21
skynetswhy cant they fix the freakin slow app manager?02:21
skynetswhy is it so slowwwwwwwwwwwww02:22
Robot101the phone doesn't turn into a brick because there aren't loads of apps, or magical constant updates02:22
Robot101very few phone vendors have *any* updates or apps02:22
Robot101the entire industry is falling over themselves to try and be more like apple02:22
Robot101but nobody actually, er, did it yet02:22
Robot101and nokia is unfortunately no exception here02:22
Robot101and yeah, I think they totally should've done it for the N900, but their failure to do so doesn't render it useless or worthless02:22
Robot101it's an awesome device, I use mine all day every day and love it and wouldn't switch it for anything else in a hurry atm02:23
skynetswhen its worthless to mainstream, its value declines... i bet its still gold for developpers but in the real world this phone tends to be useless for everyday tasks considering the price ppl are still paying02:23
Robot101it's a reference platform for meego still02:23
skynetsthe best thing about this phone is the FM transmitter02:24
Robot101it will get unofficial meego builds, but they are for developers02:24
Robot101and yes, I love that :)02:24
Robot101I don't find it useless for any of the tasks I do02:24
Robot101and I'm not a developer, I'm a manager now :P02:24
skynetsRobot101, its so unreliable.. the os feels flimsy02:24
skynetstheres something about it that makes it feel cheap and unfinished02:24
Robot101support has not ended for it, file bugs02:25
skynetsno fucking equalizer02:25
skynetscome on02:25
Robot101what the fuck phone has an equalizer? come on.02:25
skynetsopen source? so why the delay in an equalizer02:25
skynetsi listen to music02:25
skynetswith earphones02:25
ScottishDuckno gapless playback02:25
Robot101open source is not about choice here, it's a means to an end for a corporation.02:25
Robot101if you want an equalizer or gapless playback, you actually /can/ do something about it on the N90002:26
Robot101unlike a lot of other stuff02:26
skynetsbut why go through all this trouble02:26
Robot101but to call the device unusable because it doesn't have an equalizer, you're just being a weenie02:26
skynetsother phones already have that feature02:26
ScottishDuckit is unstable02:26
skynetsno wasting 5 hours installing someting so that it MIGHT work02:26
ScottishDuckmine crashes when the battery goes too low02:26
skynetsno no its not because of that specific feature02:26
ScottishDuckand it has huge slowdowns02:26
Robot101for me it has e-mail, irc, IM, maps (google maps!), syncml, twitter, facebook, I can check train times, etc02:26
skynetsbut its among so many shits that annoy me02:27
Robot101and I listen to music on it all the time02:27
* w00t_ is in a similar boat to Robot10102:27
skynetsyeah me too but the quality sucks when you cant adjust the frequencies02:27
w00t_although I don't really listen to music02:27
Robot101if you just don't like it as a product, just return it - that's not because it doesn't run meego, because I can guarantee you - meego won't improve these things if nokia or intel don't also start to consider them a priority02:28
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Robot101nobody sold it to you as a meego device, if you don't like maemo 5 or the n900 then fine, at least consider it on its own merits02:28
Robot101but complaining to the people here is kind of nonsense02:28
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w00t_I actually wrote something on this topic earlier tonight02:29
* w00t_ fishes02:29
Robot101like, none of the Mac OS 9 machines could run Mac OS 10 when it came out, and nobody expected them to either02:29
Robot101and afaict, the mobile phone industry is lagging the computer industry by 5-10 years02:29
diveso any clues on how to resize the qemu nand image?02:29
w00t_first half of
Robot101don't get me started on TVs :P02:29
aloisiojranybody knows where can i find spec file of qt used in meego?02:29
Robot101they're like 20 years behind02:29
w00t_Robot101: in that evolution is a hell of a lot faster (and thus less stable) you mean?02:30
w00t_aloisiojr: hrrm, you know, that's an interesting question02:30
* w00t_ goes for a dig02:30
skynetscheck this out02:30
GAN900Robot101, I'd disagree with the misleading02:30
skynetslook how smooth it feels02:30
GAN900There was a lot of advertising02:31
skynetsit looks like a MULTIMEDIA phone02:31
Robot101skynets: I don't have any flash atm, sorry02:31
skynetsbut it wasnt02:31
Robot101blame adobe02:31
Robot101hrm, I wonder if HTML5 will work02:31
skynetsand because it wasent02:31
skynetsmost ppl had hopes for MeeGo02:31
skynetsincluding me02:31
skynetshopes that it would fix that crap02:31
DocScrutinizeranyway eq typically is a feature to be integrated into the mp3/whatever decoder, as it's a brainfsck to convert from freq to time domain in mp3 playback, just to do another time to freq domain conversion for EQ, and then back to time domain on a third step02:32
GAN900Robot101, and ALL of the current Mac OS 9 machines could run OS X.02:32
Robot101GAN900: ... current :P02:32
GAN900Robot101, from 2000. :P02:32
Robot101maybe when Maemo 6 ^W^W^WMeeGo-Harmattan comes out and then MeeGo does, then real MeeGo will run on it02:32
GAN900But I ran 10.3 on my iMac Rev.D02:32
aloisiojrw00t_: it would be very nice if the meego obs was open02:32
Robot101but Harmattan was already in the oven when MeeGo turned up02:33
GAN900I just wish Nokia didn't insist on shooting themselves in the foot.02:33
w00t_aloisiojr: hold on, downloading a few hundred mb to find out if my guess is right02:33
Robot101GAN900: me too02:33
skynetslook... android is a perfect example of a successful open source OS with a bright future02:33
GAN900Because I'm burnt out on it02:33
aloisiojrw00t_: do you think the src.rpm has this file?02:33
DocScrutinizerand afaiui there's an analog EQ inside the audio codec / mixer chip, that simply needs to be set up by the corresponfing ALSA sliders in amixer02:33
w00t_aloisiojr: right, I am02:33
Robot101skynets: hahahahahahahahaha02:33
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w00t_aloisiojr: the srpms include specs02:33
GAN900and wishing for an alternative that didn't require dealing with their BS02:33
ScottishDuckNokia seems to be a company struggling with the way the phone industry is going02:33
aloisiojrtks god02:34
GAN900The MyNokia response was just surreal.02:34
aloisiojrand tks w00t_02:34
ScottishDuckDesign, OS, Marketing02:34
Robot101GAN900: I wish they hadn't shot themselves in the foot too02:34
ScottishDucktheir just not getting it right02:34
GAN900But that's what you get when dinosaurs are in charge.02:34
skynetsRobot101, so you're saying that Android < Maemo????02:34
Robot101skynets: no, I'm saying android is not open source, in any way shape or form other than the license - no community or visibility or even /pretense/ of trying02:35
skynetswhat about nitdroid02:35
skynetshes working on what then02:35
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Robot101nitdroit is not actually android, no device manufacturers ship it and support it... like mer or meego on an n900 or android for that matter02:35
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ScottishDuckAndroid does actually work though02:35
Robot101you can do it but it proves nothing02:35
GAN900Android is a joke02:35
GAN900and evil02:35
Robot101maemo does actually work too, I really can do all the things I said I could02:36
GAN900Google is an advertising company02:36
skynetssuccess = evil02:36
Robot101I don't just have a wooden block in my phone02:36
GAN900At least Nokia is mostly interested in selling you a device02:36
ScottishDuckOnly they broke the phone app with pr 1.202:36
Robot101no, it's not about evil, it's about misselling. android was sold as open source but there's a distinction between the license and the governance, accountability and transparancy02:36
w00t_GAN900: though MyNokia makes you wonder02:36
Robot101the license is open, yes02:36
Robot101the rest is totally not02:36
GAN900Google sells a platform to operators and vendors and pushes their advertising02:36
GAN900w00t_, yeah. . . .02:37
Robot101google *said* this at the linux foundation collab summit02:37
Robot101chris di bona had a keynote02:37
Robot101he said, you guys give us crap about android02:37
Robot101but basically, the community isn't you02:37
skynetswait... maemo isnt open source either.. thats why you need to file bug reports to nokia02:37
DocScrutinizerScottishDuck: broke phone app? how?02:37
Robot101it's our OEMs and people02:37
GAN900Big companies are filled with people incapable of doing reasonable things02:37
Robot101OEMs and manufacturers etc02:37
w00t_skynets: all of it isn't, no, and that's part of the reason MeeGo is a step forward02:37
Robot101skynets: nokia never said the closed bits of maemo were open though02:37
ScottishDuckDocScrutinizer: Screen turns on and off when the phone is ringing02:37
ScottishDuckknown bug02:38
ScottishDuckannoying as hell02:38
GAN900Robot101, then he tried to throw a tshirt at my head. :(02:38
Robot101skynets: they have people actually sitting on the forums and at conferences and on IRC explaining and apologising for the closed bits02:38
Robot101and trying to change it internally02:38
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skynetsand if it was such a special phone.. why cant maemo be updated in parts... small files... like linux oses02:38
Robot101google just turned up and said, ha, no its not open source for you guys and you can't see the roadmap02:38
GAN900If only Nokia weren't the company. . . .02:38
Robot101skynets: ehh... it can!02:38
Robot101skynets: it uses .deb, its just like debian02:39
Robot101thats how the app manager works02:39
skynetsRobot101, can i do it now with the graphical interface02:39
GAN900Managers are just stupid02:39
ScottishDuckLuckily Meego appears to have Intel in the driving seat02:39
GAN900and release processes take forever to change.02:39
DocScrutinizerRobot101: the efforts to change internally are rather fruitless though02:39
GAN900ScottishDuck, Intel is LESS open in a lot of ways.02:39
w00t_ScottishDuck: I'm perplexed why you think that's a good thing02:39
Robot101ScottishDuck: intel's proven track record of producing successful open source platforms...?02:39
w00t_I'd rather *no* single company be in the "driving seat"02:39
GAN900ScottishDuck, I find the Intel side of things to be much more difficult to work with than Nokia02:40
Robot101ScottishDuck: nokia have been doing maemo (or osso before it) for 5-6 years. intel have been, er, cocking it up for 2-3.02:40
GAN900That could be established raport, though.02:40
Robot101intel have a lot to learn from nokia, but they might not realise it atm02:40
w00t_Robot101: I suspect it does go two ways, though02:40
Robot101w00t_: sure02:40
w00t_Robot101: (as in they both could learn things)02:40
GAN900A lot of things02:40
Robot101DocScrutinizer: not really - the entire existence of maemo is the result of 4 or 5 guys who had a little R&D project and decided to go in a new direction02:40
GAN900But they wont, or it'll be far too slowly.02:41
Robot101DocScrutinizer: it's not impossible to /do/ or change anything in a large organisation, it's the timing which is awkward02:41
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Robot101IME, working with nokia as a subcontractor for almost 5 years, they usually make the right technical decisions eventually02:41
w00t_GAN900: naah.. steps in the right direction02:41
Robot101but, they do it at the wrong time02:41
DocScrutinizerRobot101: obviously02:41
Robot101between 6-12 months late on average02:41
GAN900w00t_, always with the waiting, though02:41
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ScottishDuckOh woops, I was under the impression that Intel provides the second most patches to the linux kernel, creates open source drivers and funds open source projects02:41
Robot101their product / marketing focus is whack though02:41
ScottishDucksilly me02:41
GAN900w00t_, you haven't been waiting since 2005. :P02:41
DocScrutinizersee how long it takes to give me an easy start on bme02:41
Robot101ScottishDuck: yes, hardware manufacturers in making drivers SHOCKER02:42
Robot101ScottishDuck: for, er, desktop and server stuff02:42
GAN900ScottishDuck, Intel sells to OEMs02:42
ScottishDuckKernel, Xorg development02:42
Robot101ScottishDuck: platforms these are not02:42
GAN900Nokia sells to consumers.02:42
w00t_ScottishDuck: so you haven't seen who has been funding things like oFono, ubifs, Qt, gtk+, ...02:42
Robot101and mobile, they are not...02:42
GAN900Different customers, different ways of doing business.02:42
skynetsnokia ditched the n900... why is it more complicated that that?02:42
Robot101they did kill the platform when they released the device02:43
Robot101at least, kill it for any developers, pretty much02:43
Robot101that's right, but it doesn't make the N900 into something other than what it was claimed to me, IMO02:43
Robot101and nor does it mean nokia have done anything untoward by not supporting meego02:43
DocScrutinizerskynets: Nokia ditched N900?02:44
w00t_Robot101: I think they've actually been more supportive than I'd expect of a dead device02:44
w00t_Robot101: there's an awful lot of people working on ARM adaptation for it02:44
Robot101it does a hell of a lot less than meego does atm and will for the rest of the year and next year to come tbh02:44
w00t_Robot101: (meego, that is)02:44
Robot101er, more :P02:44
skynetswhat can yo udo on the n90002:44
skynetsthat you cant on an android phone02:45
skynetsor a jailbroken iuphone02:45
ScottishDuckYou can do a lot of things on the n900, a lot of badly implemented things, buggy things, unsupported things, battery draining things02:45
skynetsforget about hte fm tuner02:45
ScottishDuckit's a dream02:45
Robot101press ctrl+shift+x and get an xterm? become root by installing a manufacturer supported debian package? run gtk apps?02:45
lcukskynets, i quite like the idea of porting maemomeego fully to iphone hardware02:46
w00t_Robot101: don't forget replacing the actual OS (with relative ease) - e.g. nitdroid02:46
Robot101come on IRC and bitch at people who actually care about it and explaining it to you for no apparent reason?02:46
ScottishDuckI didn't realize xterm was a killer app that you spend £500 to get02:46
Robot101install extra backends and sign on to AIM, MSN, Yahoo...02:46
skynetsRobot101, dont take it personally02:46
Robot101and skype and SIP and XMPP out of the box02:46
skynetsdoesnt android have that02:46
skynetsand sip aswell02:46
Robot101not in the android address book it doesn't02:47
Robot101built in to the device02:47
DocScrutinizerskype... eeeew02:47
Robot101run background processes? :P02:47
skynetswhats the difference02:47
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skynetsinstall an app and voila02:47
Robot101I press the phone, choose a contact, and choose how to call them02:47
skynetsu cant do the same for the equalizer on the n90002:47
Robot101not, choose skype then run it and see if they're online02:47
* kaus slaps sevla around a bit with a large trout02:47
Robot101it's called integration02:47
w00t_skynets: you were saying that you shouldn't have to "spend 5 hours finding and installing an app" a short while ago, which is it?02:47
Robot101run background processes? :P02:47
DocScrutinizerskynets: I mentioned above there's probably a hw EQ on N900 and you just need to *use* it02:48
Robot101look, the bottom line is, a) this is a meego channel, not to do with the N900, and b) if you'd rather have an android phone than an N900, why did you get an N900? nobody said it would support meego, and you could've gone to #maemo before buying it and asking. :P02:48
ScottishDuckw00t_: are you seriously trying to claim maemo app manager is the equivalent to android market?02:48
w00t_ScottishDuck: I think you need to re-read what I said02:49
Robot101and if nitdroit makes you so happy, install that, and watch how much support google gives you02:49
w00t_ScottishDuck: and look at the context of the conversation02:49
skynetsw00t_, the n900 app manager is extremely slow and the way you install software from it is so stupid. wait 2 minutes for hte repos to load, then click on the file, ACCEPT the terms everytime.. wait for the download, then the install... then when its done, all the repos reload again.. then you get the the desktop and have to manually add the fucking icons02:49
w00t_you know, this isn't going anywhere02:49
skynetsand go back and start over again for another app02:49
w00t_I think I'm going back to doing productive things02:49
skynetslike download another app02:49
skynetsgood 5 minutes02:50
skynets(1 minute download)02:50
DocScrutinizerScottishDuck: (HAM != andridiot market) thank god it's not02:50
Robot101skynets: ok cool take it back have a nice life BYEEEEE02:50
w00t_(someone actually wrote a replacement application manager, btw, look into fapman)02:51
Robot101meego /might/ work on it. android /might/ work. but neither nokia nor google nor intel have any obligation to support any of those.02:51
lcukand danielwilms has download-assistant - a nice qt based frontend to maemo downloads02:51
skynetsbut why cant nokia do it :P theyre making the whole community do the dirty work while that time/energy could be used on original but more useful things02:51
lcukskynets, danielwilms works for nokia02:52
skynetsok ill look into that too02:52
DocScrutinizerskynets: why *should* Nokia do *all* this?02:52
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Robot101they didn't port freedos? motherfuckers!!!02:52
lcukskynets, the thing is: nokia arent waiting for the community - but however big nokia are, the community is bigger02:52
skynetsare your phones overclocked02:53
lcukive looked at some of the various overclocks but my main device is stock02:53
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DocScrutinizerohnoes, OC topic now02:56
skynetsnot sure what that menas02:57
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ChrisRolandHas anyone been able to install virtualbox on meego?  I can find a ton about installing meego on virtualbox but not the other way around03:24
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ChrisRolandIs there a vnc viewer for MeeGo?04:45
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Jef91howdy, I see the image download link of meego for the n900 - anyone know if you can dual boot it with maemo?04:54
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tripzeromtf needs lots of optimization05:54
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tina_how can i access my home folder (megoo) from gentoo13:00
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* dm8tbr is doing something wrong apparently:
dm8tbrany ideas why it says - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/cache/meego-bootstrap/tmp/SampleMedia.tar'13:10
mikhasprobably because there is no file or directory at '/var/cache/meego-bootstrap/tmp/SampleMedia.tar' =p13:11
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tina_no idea about the permission thingie?13:12
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tina_is the user folder encrypted?13:12
mikhasI'd scan for that SampleMedia tarball, perhaps the path is just wrong13:12
dm8tbrmikhas: yeah, I guess I should try that first.13:14
tina_i cant even ls /mnt/meego/home/tina  as root from gentoo-linux13:14
tina_well i could chroot to meego and mount -o bind a gentoo folder ands cp the files but that is bit crazy, i just want to be able to play my media that is on my meego /home/tina disk13:16
tina_no one else using dual-boot?13:17
dm8tbrtina_: is the home folder empty when you look at it from gentoo?13:18
tina_eeepc tina # ls13:19
tina_Access-Your-Private-Data.desktop  README.txt13:19
tina_but they are red files cant cat them13:19
tina_cat Access-Your-Private-Data.desktop13:19
tina_cat: Access-Your-Private-Data.desktop: No such file or directory13:19
tina_that is as root , as user i get permission denied13:20
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Saziustina_: it seems that you have encrypted home directory in meego?13:39
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tina_Sazius, uh huh , tho i cant remember it setted up that13:41
Saziusok, but at least in Debian when I use an encrypted directory with ecryptfs it shows those two files when the directory is in its encrypted state13:42
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tina_Sazius, and do you know how i can give my gentoo user access to it13:44
Saziustina_: sorry, I don't, but you might google for ecryptfs in Gentoo... in Debian there is an ecryptfs-utils package, maybe something similar in Gentoo13:47
SaziusI have to go now though...13:49
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tina_Sazius, ty13:55
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ChriuxI have a question, can i install or its possible meego running on the openmoko freerunner?14:08
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tripzeroChriux, with a lot of work, anything is possible14:28
mariobCan someone tell my if there is a public OBS were one can help out with packaging?14:28
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tripzeromariob, i thought there was public obs?14:31
* tripzero doesn't know if it's public or not though...14:32
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erkan^have meego a office suite "openOffice" too?14:36
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mariobtripzero: Ahh, thx.14:37
mariobtripzero: Hmm, seems like you need an account14:37
tripzeromariob, does your account work?14:38
mariobtripzero: I don't have one, I'll try registering and check if it works14:39
lcukerkan^,  yes apparantly you can get openoffice working on your machine14:39
lcuktho its not optimal14:39
lcukwhich is a shame, editing docs on the go with your netbook is something people often use OOo for14:39
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erkan^ok, but i have installed "meego with Google Chrome" on my netbook, lcuk14:40
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erkan^meego is very beautiful interface, lcuk14:44
erkan^that is first time for me , since yesterday14:44
lcukerkan^, :D14:44
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erkan^is Abiword good software too?14:50
mariobtripzero: Doesn't work14:50
erkan^Abiword is light than openOffice, I think14:50
mariobtripzero: Seems that you need a special account for obs14:50
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* tina_ uses her gentoo build openoffice via a chroot and shared dir in meego , she not likes abiword14:58
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erkan^is meego basic for debian or fedora?15:28
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dm8tbrI'm still clueless as to this
dm8tbrif I create the directory it disappears and mic fails again15:34
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pupnikTexrat's presentation at Akademy 2010: "User feedback framework"  ty cybette for the video16:31
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Surfai've been wondering, what am I supposed to do with "Zones"18:02
Surfai haven't figured out any useful usage for them..18:02
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pupnikthey are for optimizing the UX for different work environments or tasks18:03
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Surfathat's what I read, but cant figure out how they should help in that :)18:05
pupnikfor me that would be a set of links to contacts, bookmarks, apps and documents18:08
pupnikfor e.g. i might switch to a demo zone when i hand device to people to try-out - lots of media and games to click on, but not my private data18:09
pupnikwe should ensure ability to define a zone with access to youtube disabled ;)18:10
Surfaif there were some video examples of zone usage, it would be great18:10
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pupnikit doesn't seem like a far-fetched concept to me18:17
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ScottishDuckQuick question: Why did the dev team choose glibc over uclibc? :)19:33
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odin_huh, why would you want to use uclibc in a base system that is has over 8 times the capacity of the respectable first linux systems that exists in the 1990s19:39
odin_8 times as in 8 times the CPU power, 8 times the memory, 8 times the storage, yes using libc then was never considered an issue19:40
ShadowJKglibc today is somewhat more bloated than libc in 90s :)19:41
odin_a modern mobile phone is less of an embedded device and more a mobile computer19:41
JaffaAf'noon all19:42
Jaffaodin_: You been reading Nokia's marketing material? ;-)19:42
odin_sure it has (glibc) grown but I'd guess the performances loss is less than double19:42
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ScottishDuckodin_: When meego produces a 315MB rootfs that doesn't fit on the n900, you start to wonder about trimming fat19:42
odin_this means there is still a net gain, even if it is bloated, so you have some kind of device with less than 4Mb of memory you still wish to port MeeGo to ?19:43
odin_no you reject the notion of a OneNAND rootfs and put it back in eMMC where it should have been in the first place19:43
odin_OneNAND is just a nice kind of storage that suits mobile devices, so it should not be all used up by rootfs, it should be swap/buffer-cache/rootfs-journal/with-dynamic-tuning19:44
odin_I certainly reject Nokia's notion of OneNAND is your rootfs, no thanks, give me a full Unix host on eMMC anyday19:44
ShadowJKis netbook meego using uclibc too?19:45
w00t_ShadowJK: the original point was that neither of them are19:45
odin_I could not say but I the build is unified, so I guess it doesn't19:45
Jaffaodin_: swap on OneNAND, rootfs on eMMC and we can avoid /opt hackery19:45
ShadowJKswap on onenand needs kernel work19:45
odin_agree yes begone /opt-doodad-ification19:45
w00t_I think the MMC is the better solution19:46
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ShadowJKWhich, if done properly, could make filesystems on emmc fast not slow, too :P19:46
odin_what kernel work ?  its a block device. I want rootfs journal on OneNAND19:46
ShadowJKonenand is not a block device.19:46
odin_so all write hits are taken by OneNAND first, which is one of its good metrics, high write cycles, meaning it lowers to write hits to eMMC19:47
lcukdoes the n97 have a 3d accelerator?  can you run meego on it?19:47
odin_still I would not want a mobile device restricted to uclib19:48
odin_but I am l for looking at why so many processes exist and ways to reduce idle footprint19:48
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odin_i.e. more integrated single component processes but of high quality (i.e. that dont crash, are responsible, use threading correctly for all I/O work)19:49
infobotodin_ meant: i.e. more integrated single component processes but of high quality (i.e. that dont crash, are responsive, use threading correctly for all I/O work)19:50
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odin_so the issue of a 315Mb rootfs that doesn't fit into your brainwashed thinking of a OneNAND rootfs, is something that needs to be addresses, it would be nice to have a really cut down rootfs with basic/essential phone functions and thats it19:52
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odin_does anyone know the status of the "Community OBS Platform" ?19:53
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w00t_odin_: I'm probably wrong, but I think its waiting on hardware19:53
odin_hmm it was 4 weeks ago when I was last around, ah well... maybe it is time to take action into ones own hands19:54
odin_we can wait on hardware until October when MeeGo 1.1 is out I guess, maybe this is better for Nokia/Intel so they can get their feet under the table more politically19:55
w00t_odin_: no point ascribing it to malice, when firstly, I might be totally wrong, and secondly, there just isn't a need for it :P19:55
w00t_lbt: ^^ I guess you might know what's going on?19:55
odin_alternately someone could just release a superset of MeeGo and Maemo application that almost work on N900, and let Nokia manage that19:56
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odin_I have not attributed it to malice, just raised the point for cross examination19:57
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odin_yes the point with the MeeGo+Maemo what if the community effort gets the existing Maemo applications working and retains the GUI style, a sort of Maemo converted to OBS and RPM20:01
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RST38hwhat for?20:04
odin_it is not a given that MeeGo 1.1 will be a step up from Maemo 520:07
tripzeroScottishDuck, why use uclibc? that's for embedded systems20:07
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odin_what really needs fixing is the packaging and SDK problems of Maemo5, not the UI20:10
RST38hrealistically, you will not be able to successfully support fully featured software solution for the N90020:11
odin_i.e. do away with mandatory scratchbox to development anything, but keep device emulation from it, have all the packages that make up the system closer to the upstream versions, make it easier to maintain them ongoing20:11
RST38hIt will always be half-baked, like Mer has been20:11
RST38hSo, unless Nokia takes steps to maintain some version of Meego on N900, however unofficially, you are stuck with Maemo5.20:12
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odin_yes sure that is a likely potential pitfall, but then maybe look at what kept Mer from being half baked20:12
odin_sorry which elements continue to be missing ?20:13
RST38hMer has been kept back by the lack of proprietary drivers and (later) by the overal indifference from the users, who quickly found out that Mer is unusable on day-to-day basis20:13
odin_and now there is no driver problem20:13
RST38hOh, there is always some problem or another20:14
odin_there are still a few userspace binaries, but they are not prohibited from use as-is20:14
RST38hThe main being that a few people, working nights, for free, are generally unable to accomplish the required task20:14
odin_ok understood, but also the Mer concept may have been too-early and too-diehard (with "free" and "open" requirements), also the Mer concept started in the era of "Nokia Tablet Computers"20:17
odin_something for which I have never had any interest in myself and never looked at Maemo4 or older because Nokia just didn't get what I as customer was looking for, it is still less than 9 months since the first mobile phone release20:19
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lbtodin_: I'm working on the OBS now20:38
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odin_lbt, obviously good news to hear, even if the same news from a number of weeks ago now, I hope there is a change in news soon20:59
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reenignEesreveRI have a lilliput touchscreen connected to my x86 PC desktop. Can I run meego on it to have a nice touch based interface?21:21
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CosmoHillif it has intel graphics and SSSE3 support you can21:26
CosmoHilland if the touch screen drivers are in meego21:27
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lbtodin_: me too...21:44
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lbthey dl9pf_21:47
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reenignEesreveRCosmoHill, which version of meego sohud i download for trying out?21:53
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lbtCould someone volunteer to prepare a web page on the wiki? I need some MeeGo and some Maemo volunteer devs who can help verify the OBS setup.21:54
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lbtI just want to get a list of who wants to help and what they can offer...21:55
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GAN900lbt, I can cheerlead. :P21:58
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lbtanyone can help ... there'll be doc roles...21:59
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lbtI'm just so busy I forget who's offered to help do what22:00
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