IRC log of #meego for Friday, 2010-07-02

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GAN900	villev, that guy is an expect at closing down websites in fits of rage.	00:09
GAN900	villev, that'll be the fourth time I've seen him "quit".	00:09
villev	quit the same site?	00:09
w00t_	GAN900: yeah, I thought the same thing	00:10
CosmoHill	lbt: Mock the week :)	00:10
w00t_	tbh I think someone is sore they bet on the wrong side of the fence, again	00:10
villev	well, I guess becoming a fervent symbian advocate requires a manic-depressive personality	00:10
w00t_	"maemo got renamed? OMG I'M SHUTTING DOWN MAEMO-GURU"	00:10
w00t_	"symbian to be pushed to middle end, no more N series devices"	00:10
w00t_	.. oops	00:10
lbt	CosmoHill: mmm?	00:10
villev	ah, he had the maemo-guru as well	00:11
villev	and some squatter has meego-guru	00:11
w00t_	villev: pretty sure maemo-guru got closed down more than once, but not positive	00:11
villev	http://www.symbian-guru.com/2010/02/with-meego-i-go/	00:12
villev	the page is deleted though	00:12
villev	oh well, never read those sites	00:12
DawnFoster	w00t_: Just wanted to confirm that you can make it to the community office meeting on July 6 19:00 UTC to talk about developer engagement proposal? http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Working_Group_Meeting	00:13
villev	w00t_: btw, tried qtdone already? did it fit the bill? :-)	00:13
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DawnFoster	btw, everyone is welcome at the meeting - we talk about community tasks that need to be done. It's a good way to learn about other ways to contribute to MeeGo	00:14
w00t_	DawnFoster: I've nothing planned + set an alarm for it :-)	00:15
w00t_	DawnFoster: if I for some reason am not active, just hilight me - I will have gotten scatterbrained as I tend to do	00:15
DawnFoster	w00t_: great! I'll move you up as confirmed on the agenda.	00:15
DawnFoster	w00t_: will do!	00:15
w00t_	villev: I haven't had a chance to look closely yet	00:15
villev	can I troll already for a need for moderation system on meego.com?	00:15
villev	to prevent it from becoming another tmo	00:16
DawnFoster	villev: do you see similar issues?	00:16
DawnFoster	right now, people are reporting posts, and they're getting pulled down pretty quickly	00:16
villev	not really, but people are not using meego.com yet	00:16
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villev	since there are no phones out	00:16
villev	in the same quantity as tmo	00:16
DawnFoster	keep in mind that meego also works on netbooks	00:17
DawnFoster	which is where we've had most of the activity recently	00:17
DawnFoster	Right now, we have at least 4 or 5 moderators	00:17
DawnFoster	the plan is to add more moderators as needed	00:17
ScottishDuck	Don't mean to be an ass, but is there any preliminary idea of when we mights	00:17
villev	I don't mean that kind of moderation system	00:17
ScottishDuck	see a GSM modem driver for meego?	00:17
villev	I mean like e.g. slashdot	00:18
villev	where you can mod down people who may not be technically abusive, but still contribute mostly negative value	00:18
villev	on TMO there is only the possibility to mod people up	00:18
DawnFoster	villev: right now, we have a way to thank people who add positive value	00:18
villev	yeah. but that doesn't keep the noise down :-)	00:19
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villev	though on meego.com it might not be a problem yet	00:19
w00t_	there has already been a little bit of noise around the handset release, though not too bad thankfully	00:19
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DawnFoster	villev: so far things haven't been too bad, but it's something we could look at for the future.	00:20
villev	and giving thanks doesn't help if all messages will be visible in the same way.	00:21
villev	yeah DawnFoster, I could see this coming relevant when the phones are coming out	00:21
villev	for netbooks... I guess people get less trollish about them because changing the os is cheaper	00:22
DawnFoster	villev: why don't you talk to Reggie (our forum admin) and look at the available options for vBulletin	00:22
villev	what's reggies irc nick?	00:22
DawnFoster	villev: once we have some research, discussion on the meego-community mailing list & some kind of proposal, we can start looking at it as a task	00:22
villev	ok, I'll send something over to meego-community ml perhaps	00:23
robtaylor	ScottishDuck: I thought that the driver for the n900 hardware was already available.	00:23
DawnFoster	I think it's rsuplido	00:23
robtaylor	ScottishDuck: i'm sure someone told be you can make calls with dbus-send	00:23
DawnFoster	I don't see him on how, but you can ping him on the forums.	00:23
villev	tomorrow. It's 12:24am in finland :)	00:23
villev	ya, I'll ping him	00:23
DawnFoster	thanks!	00:23
ScottishDuck	robtaylor: I don't think so	00:23
w00t_	robtaylor: pretty sure that isn't the case, there is no cellular modem driver (yet)	00:25
w00t_	see also: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-July/003543.html	00:25
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w00t_	ScottishDuck: I don't think anyone will have a firm idea of how long it will take, yet, but I suppose some of the arm people would be the best to ask (when they're around/working, I doubt there's anyone hanging around atm)	00:26
ScottishDuck	oh well w/e	00:26
ScottishDuck	Don't really intend on using meego until beta	00:27
robtaylor	w00t_: ScottishDuck: ah, that must have been with closed drivers then, my bad :)	00:27
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robtaylor	at least telepathy-ring is open now :)	00:29
robtaylor	ScottishDuck: this is probably what you want to hear - http://lists.ofono.org/pipermail/ofono/2010-June/002669.html	00:30
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ScottishDuck	cool	00:31
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nigth_amir	hi all )	00:36
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trem	nite all, sweet dreams	00:43
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GAN900	w00t_, don't forget the first Maemo quit.	00:53
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w00t_	GAN900: yeah, thought there was more than one.. what caused hte first? :)	00:54
TSCHAKeee2	"The first maemo quit" ?	00:55
w00t_	TSCHAKeee2: mister guru	00:55
TSCHAKeee2	okay	00:56
GAN900	w00t_, dunno	00:59
GAN900	He's a frat boy idiot, quite frankly	01:00
w00t_	:)	01:00
GAN900	So who knows what his motivations are. :P	01:00
w00t_	as I said to someone else	01:00
w00t_	"it means more traffic for quality content" :)	01:00
GAN900	Yeah	01:00
GAN900	Good riddance to bad rubbish.	01:00
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GordonS	Hey all... I was wondering what sane minimum requirements for Meego would be, assuming that one were starting from source. That is - I know that the image requires a Core 2 or recent Atom - but pretend for a moment I'm bootstrapping a platform.	01:27
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microlith	GordonS: what kind of platform, x86? ARM?	01:35
GordonS	x86, in my case...	01:35
GordonS	though I can ultimately deal with comparing equivalent processing power :)	01:36
microlith	the big catch at this point is SSSE3 support, since many AMD units don't have it	01:36
GordonS	is that actually needed for the source code?	01:36
ScottishDuck	no support for amd in an intel os	01:36
GordonS	or just the already-build image	01:36
ScottishDuck	color me surprised	01:36
GordonS	?	01:37
microlith	the existing image requires it	01:37
* GordonS clearly cannot type today...		01:37
microlith	I don't see why it couldn't be rebuilt without it, but I haven't tried	01:37
microlith	the immediate rebuttal is "performance loss"	01:37
GordonS	Basically... I am wondering how suitable Meego would be for low-end hardware, if it was rebuilt from source	01:37
microlith	well, 3d acceleration is required at minimum	01:38
GordonS	anything even vaguely recent can do that though	01:39
microlith	currently the image doesn't function properly on non-intel graphics accelerators	01:39
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GordonS	hehe... as it happens, the device I'm interested in testing on does have an Intel, albeit an old one	01:39
microlith	I'm not sure how old a chip they'll support	01:39
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GordonS	Basically... I like Qt of course, but KDE is pretty heavy-weight...	01:40
GordonS	so I'm trying to see if I can get a Qt-friendly environment on low-end HW	01:41
microlith	understandable	01:41
GordonS	(...without going quite so minimal as I did at my last job - I had a pure-Qt environment running in Qt/E)	01:41
microlith	my guess is that you could probably pare it down	01:41
GordonS	Meego, you mean?	01:41
microlith	yes	01:41
microlith	but I haven't worked with the core much just yet	01:42
GordonS	I also have to wonder if it actually requires X :)	01:42
GordonS	given how much stuff I got running under Qt/E :)	01:42
microlith	meego does require X	01:42
GordonS	well, thank you for help - I may try it on this thing; if it works I will certainly let y'all know...	01:43
microlith	best of luck	01:43
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mc-scrat	hello everyone. need some help, please. I got an N900 device. I've changed one system file (/sbin/mce) and now the device continues to reboot. I was able to make "flasher-3.5 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset", so my phone now tries to boot, but freezes on 5 points. So i have found a way to boot Meego kernel and initrd via flasher-3.5. But there's an issue - I have not time to do anything - it just reboots itself in about a minute or less. How can I mak	01:57
mc-scrat	e it work longer? Pls, it's really important for me, because today I have very interesting information earned and written it into calendar. No sync was since then. Pls-plz	01:57
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kallam	mc-scrat: you can also try set no-omap-wd and no-ext-wd rd-flags	02:05
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meegodotby	Hi all	02:10
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kaus	sup	02:12
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meegodotby	eat&	02:19
meegodotby	?	02:19
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w00t_	intriguing	02:24
w00t_	who has a meego SDK setup on a non-intel GFX card?	02:24
* w00t_ found out something interesting		02:27
w00t_	if I run Xephyr outside of the chroot, independently of startmeego, I get a display when I subsequently run startmeego	02:27
w00t_	(on an NVidia card)	02:27
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tmzt_	a display?	02:27
tmzt_	you mean you get two :1's?	02:28
w00t_	no, I mean I get MeeGo displaying itself in my Xephyr session	02:28
w00t_	not at omfg-fast speed, but at usable speed at least	02:29
w00t_	think maemo scratchbox	02:29
DawnFoster	w00t_ that's cool	02:29
w00t_	smile for the camera	02:30
lcuk_afk	:)	02:31
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lcuk	DawnFoster, you said something yesterday about downloading the whole meego image onto primary n900.	02:32
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w00t_	http://w00t.dereferenced.net/meego-gui.png	02:32
DawnFoster	lcuk: I think I said that would be crazy	02:32
lcuk	yeah DawnFoster	02:32
lcuk	but devs want to help and make the apps better	02:33
* w00t_ goes to mail meego-dev with his findings		02:33
DawnFoster	lcuk: right now, even devs shouldn't install it on their primary device	02:33
lcuk	i thought that since the apps are qt, if we on the maemo side supplied .deb patches for a debian folder whether they would be integrated in the main repository	02:33
DawnFoster	it's a very early image and things like the phone and wifi don't quite work :)	02:33
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lcuk	we know DawnFoster and appreciate that! but devs are happy testing applications on their current OS	02:34
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lcuk	so if we made a /debian folder the developers could help you whilst keeping on a stable os	02:34
lcuk	they are just qt applications ?	02:35
lcuk	a lot less disruptive to kick things off :D	02:36
DawnFoster	lcuk: honestly, I'm not familiar enough with the N900 / .deb environment to know how well that would work.	02:37
DawnFoster	I've been using MeeGo on the netbook / rpm environment mostly	02:37
DawnFoster	the N900 isn't even my primary device and I'm waiting for a more stable build before I install it :)	02:38
lcuk	thats ok, we aren't asking for any resources - this is community - we will supply clean patches and will try and manage the packages just as we seem to do in maemo	02:38
w00t_	see also: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-July/003593.html	02:39
DawnFoster	I was more concerned about the deb approach with the MeeGo project moving to standardize on rpm	02:40
lcuk	thats fine	02:40
lcuk	but qt applications have to be written	02:40
DawnFoster	I was assuming you'd find your own resources	02:40
DawnFoster	absolutely	02:40
lcuk	perhaps this initiative could bring a nice simple qt based automatic packager to simplify the process for deployment on all os's	02:41
chriadam	now _that_ would be fantastic	02:41
DawnFoster	people can start writing qt apps now	02:41
DawnFoster	lcuk: that would be sweet	02:41
lcuk	yes and they do on maemo too - they are deployed	02:41
lcuk	but LOTS of people from debian to rpm to windows install shield have installer nightmares	02:42
DawnFoster	I think bspencer might be thinking about that, too (possibly starting to work on it) I could be wrong	02:42
ljp	could also write qml apps too	02:42
lcuk	yeah	02:42
DawnFoster	bspencer was looking at rpm spec files and templates, maybe	02:43
lcuk	the same occurs for maemo and for same program in windows	02:43
DawnFoster	I have it on my to do list to learn how to package a new app as an rpm (low priority)	02:43
DawnFoster	it would be useful to know	02:43
lcuk	its a difficult task, ive got a template for debs	02:43
lcuk	i will need to learn how to do rpms myself	02:44
lcuk	lbt mentioned something about a training doofer	02:44
DawnFoster	yeah, it looked pretty complicated, which is part of why I haven't started it yet	02:44
lcuk	perhaps ill see you at davids thing :p	02:44
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ScottishDuck	reliable service	03:01
kaus	haha	03:01
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vbektasss	hi	03:02
vbektasss	guys	03:02
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dive	Hi all, I just found out today about meego and downloaded some images for qemu + also the qemu from meego git but I just can't seem to get anything to work	04:18
dive	I tried the netbook image and various n900 images (which is what I'm eally interested in)	04:19
dive	I don't have an n900 but would like to see what I can do dev-wise	04:19
dive	so I can't get the closed source nand image	04:19
dive	I have followed guides on the wiki and been googling for hours - errors seem to be unable to boot from image, or trying to access memory outside ram/rom	04:20
dive	If anyone can link me up with a working guide + links to which images should work that would be great	04:21
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w00t_	what sort of problems are you encountering	04:26
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dive	I'll pastebin some examples	04:28
dive	one sec	04:28
dive	http://pastebin.slackadelic.com/p/ow4Yux85.html	04:30
dive	The first error occurs when using image as -cdrom -hda too	04:30
w00t_	hmm - heh, qemu is a bit outside my expertise alas	04:30
w00t_	considered trying a chroot install? seems to be quite easy to get working	04:31
dive	I'm not installing it on a n900	04:31
w00t_	I wasn't talking about that	04:31
w00t_	I was talking about a chroot on a regular desktop/whatever else	04:32
dive	oh right	04:32
w00t_	afaik some people have the handset stuff working on regular netbook/etc now	04:32
w00t_	so you don't gain anything except less hassle I'd think	04:32
dive	not sure if it's possible - does it mean my PC needs to be arm?	04:32
w00t_	no, you'd use x86 of course	04:32
dive	I need to read up on it then	04:33
w00t_	since the software compiles for both though.. you're still able to run it	04:33
w00t_	:)	04:33
w00t_	sec	04:33
dive	I thought that chrooted install was to install onto the actual phone	04:33
dive	I have a desktop pc (athlon XP 2800) and a T42 laptop	04:33
w00t_	http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux	04:34
w00t_	should be helpful	04:34
w00t_	+ possibly http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=767	04:34
dive	thanks - I will have a read	04:35
w00t_	np	04:36
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jadams	anyone successfully installed handset ux in virtualbox?	07:02
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fjrivash	good morning!	10:43
Myrtti	$time_of_day	10:43
fjrivash	ok good day! :D	10:43
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slaine	thank crunchy its friday	12:39
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zaheerm	slaine, now you made me crave a crunchie!	12:41
slaine	hmmm, crunchie	12:41
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fqh	meego v1.0 can be install in vmware. It maybe is the video driver problem. Anyone concerns it?	13:11
fqh	can -> can't	13:11
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Lemoni_	Hi	13:42
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ArtVandalae	Hi all, I'm a bit confused with the Meego SDK vs. Nokia Qt SDK. I thought the Nokia SDK would be the primary environment for writing Meego apps, but it appears that there is a Meego SDK too. Or is the Meego SDK strictly for developing the platform, as opposed to developing user applications?	13:59
ArtVandalae	Any insight would be appreciated	13:59
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w00t_	ArtVandalae: two seperate things there really.. the meego SDK is probably going to end up being more useful for platform developers, the Qt SDK for application developers	14:09
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ArtVandalae	w00t_, thanks, that's what I needed to know	14:09
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Tili	just read about symbian-guru. makes me scared	14:16
Tili	i did my first symbian app in 2004 for Newlc opensummer competition	14:16
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ArtVandalae	Tili, why scared?	14:20
Tili	scared that Nokia is dying and iPhone is so much saturated	14:21
Tili	so less for app developers	14:21
Tili	windows mobile has betrayed me	14:22
Tili	10 years of learning and now whole OS will be changed and no more C/C++ API	14:22
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sandst1	the transformation from C++ => C# shouldn't be a painful one :) the other side though is whether you prefer language changes	14:26
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pinchartl	Tili: I'm not sure to agree that Nokia is dying	14:32
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pinchartl	they're late on the smartphone market compared to apple, that's true	14:33
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Tili	sandst1: the api looks very small for C#/.NET for windows phone 7	14:33
pinchartl	but their approach is much better	14:33
Tili	it feels like windows phone 7 is going back	14:33
Tili	pinchartl: I surely love how they are going for open source and Qt. I just love the idea of having Qt there	14:34
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pinchartl	Tili: I wouldn't bet on windows phone 7. microsoft will pay developers big bucks to have a barely living applications ecosystem, but the product will likely be a failure	14:34
Tili	what else you are referring to that you like in their approach	14:34
pinchartl	how open they are, compared to apple	14:34
pinchartl	you own your device, you can do pretty much what you want with it	14:34
pinchartl	and they open lots of source code	14:34
Tili	pinchartl: I agree. windows phone 7 might fail badly for developers. C# was always available for windows mobile developmebt but hardly anyone used it for commercial apps.	14:34
Tili	symbian API itself was most extensive and yes I love tinkering	14:35
Tili	Nokia needs to fix the ecosystem for apps and have to really make proper phones	14:35
Tili	nothign after N95-8GB came out to be a star	14:35
pinchartl	I've never used symbian, but from what I saw it really felt like the API had a lot of history. it wasn't consistent at all	14:36
pinchartl	the N900 is much better than the N95 ;-)	14:36
sandst1	Tili: good point. Well, at least they've got over the path of "hey let's take the desktop code and shove it into a mobile device" ^^	14:36
Tili	sandst1: yeah that is true. but they could have kept the core API same and just had to redo the User interface	14:37
Tili	somehow they thought that forcing Silverlight and C# to everyone would make it better	14:37
Tili	N900 is indeed good device. forgot about it as it is not symbian	14:38
Tili	so what do you guys see as future in Mobile dev specially for app developers?	14:38
pinchartl	we'll have a very fragmented market for a long time	14:39
ShadowJK	E71 was good	14:39
pinchartl	iphone, android, meego	14:39
pinchartl	(windows 7 phone as well maybe)	14:39
pinchartl	and symbian of course	14:39
pinchartl	meego and symbian will share some API, thanks to Qt	14:39
pinchartl	that might help them being successful	14:40
ShadowJK	I wouldn't really worry about fragmentation in the sense of having several operating systems	14:40
ShadowJK	I'd worry about single operating systems having such fragmented devices that you end up forced to write code for every one of them, or just focusing on one device	14:40
ShadowJK	Or single operating systems being so "customized"/"enhanced" by operators or device vendors that they become fragmented from the main os	14:41
pinchartl	that adds to the OS fragmentation, yes	14:41
pinchartl	it's not a problem for apple	14:41
Tili	well symbian might die as N8 is the last device going to be with Symbian	14:41
Tili	Samsung is already pushing for Bada	14:41
zaheerm	last n series device you mean	14:41
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Tili	i thought last ever device?	14:42
zaheerm	no	14:42
Tili	or is it only last N series	14:42
Tili	oh ok	14:42
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Tili	so symbian stays but not on N series anymore	14:42
zaheerm	symbian will exist in the other series	14:42
pinchartl	Tili: symbian will live for a long time on the non-N devices	14:42
Tili	that is even worse	14:42
Tili	nokia will have to compete internally between OS	14:42
pinchartl	Tili: symbian will stay in the other series, and I'm not sure about the N series. I've heard rumours, but got no official information	14:42
pinchartl	it's not a competition, it's different markets	14:43
pinchartl	you can't expect a low-end, $25 cellphone to run Linux at the moment	14:43
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pinchartl	in the near future I see Linux on high-end devices, and Symbian on low-end and middle ground	14:44
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Khertan	Hi all !	14:44
sandst1	This one states S^4 is not totally ruled out from N-series http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/02/the-fightback-starts-now/	14:45
pinchartl	Linux will probably slowly invade the midrange	14:45
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Tili	well nokia better stop fragmenting OS and devices	14:48
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ShadowJK	Tili, my favourite example is how when they wrote an app for symbian they had 6 different versions of it and it still only worked on about 8 devices out of 40+ ;-)	14:49
Tili	yeah	14:50
Tili	that sucks. the vast differences in hardware hurt badly	14:50
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Tili	you can't say that your app can run on all phones with same OS.	14:50
achipa	Tili: there is no OS that can span from the lowest range to the top, there just isn't. You either drop the whole range or you use an appropriate OS	14:50
Tili	no keep the range	14:51
Tili	i dont minde S40 and S60 differences	14:51
Tili	but I hate how one phone of S60 would have vfps and other running S60 won't	14:51
Tili	i mean why not just divide into 3 categories and stop with weird naming convention	14:51
achipa	Tili: but what's that got to do with the number of OSes ?	14:52
Tili	why not just say something like Nokia (low end), Nokia Pro (for high end)	14:52
Tili	not talking about number of OS right now.	14:53
Tili	was taking earlier chat forward about how not just number of OS make it difficult but having same OS on different hardware can make it even more fragmented	14:53
achipa	well, difference fragments, no doubts about that :)	14:53
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Tili	so i am sort of complaining about 3 things. Number of OS within Nokia, different hardware within same OS and vast variety of phones and naming conventions	14:54
achipa	first two are shaky at best. HTC has/uses more OSes than Nokia, and different hardware is a must in mobile space... as for naming, that one I agree with	14:55
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Tili	yeah HTC does that too and is not really good	14:56
Surfa	achipa, how many osses htc has?	14:57
achipa	Tili: Okay, then Sammy ? They use a boatload of OSes, too	14:57
Tili	Android, Windows Phone 7 are the 2 HTC uses	14:57
zaheerm	htc has android, various interations of windows mobile/phone/ce	14:57
Tili	yeah Sammy can't make up mind it seems	14:57
achipa	and brew	14:57
Tili	HTC has brew too? never knew that	14:57
Tili	samsung has brew, android, symbian, their own prop OS and now BADA	14:58
achipa	Tili: http://www.mydigitallife.info/2010/01/09/htc-smart-with-htc-sense-running-on-qualcomm-brew-mp-mobile-platform/	14:58
zaheerm	htc smart runs brew	14:58
Tili	ok so 3 OS	14:59
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Surfa	if you regard windows mobile versions as different should we consider symbian versions to be different too?	15:03
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achipa	still, at best it's 'as much os-es'	15:03
Surfa	nokia has however symbian x y z a b c d etc, s30, s40, maemo, meego	15:04
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Tili	yeah same OS iterations is not what i am complaining about	15:04
Tili	iphone and android has had plenty of new firmware	15:04
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achipa	except WinPho7, that one does kind of stray...	15:04
Tili	i just want less fragmentation	15:04
Tili	so when i develop an app for OS XYZ, then all phones running XYZ and + would have it working fine	15:05
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achipa	that's another story. Qt is supposed to solve that problem.	15:05
Tili	yeah winpho7 is totally new story but it also kills old ones	15:05
Tili	so it is a replacement	15:05
Tili	if MS says that windows 6.5 will be used in some phones and others will use winpho7 then that is what I don't want	15:06
Tili	ahicpa: not really	15:06
Tili	same OS or API ends up behaving differently on different phones	15:06
Surfa	Tili, well, there aren't just "basic phone" people and "high end" people	15:06
Tili	because of differences in memory/processor	15:06
Tili	i wish that was the case	15:06
Tili	just call it Nokia Basic and Nokia Pro	15:07
Tili	and then iterate Nokia Basic 1 and Nokia Pro 1 and so on	15:07
achipa	Tili: ? how's that any different from desktops ?	15:07
Tili	it is very different	15:07
Surfa	it's not very straightforward for a company like nokia who tries to have influence in asia, africa, europe, us, within old and young people, different cultures, character sets and so on	15:07
Tili	a software coded for Windows XP would run on all PCs	15:07
Tili	surfa: yeah that is the trouble with Nokia	15:08
Tili	but this makes life of developers difficult	15:08
achipa	and ? Qt can't do that ?	15:08
Surfa	Tili, it is, but that's partly why s30 and s40 for example have totally different scope than symbian and meego	15:08
Tili	well ideall Symbian itself can do that	15:08
Tili	Qt is just additional layer on top	15:08
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Surfa	Tili, you even shouldn't care about s40 if you're dealing in western countries	15:09
achipa	Tili: no it isn't	15:09
Surfa	roughly..	15:09
Tili	yeah i agree. dont care about s40	15:09
ShadowJK	That aspect of symbian is fantastic, if you don't buy the phone in china you can't have chinese chars, so all the dictionary apps become useless because the translation is a series of identical boxes :-)	15:09
achipa	Tili: it is for Windows, Linux as they have their own GUIs, but Symbian and MeeGo WILL be Qt	15:09
Tili	and i dont mind if it exists. i call it Nokia Basic in my above example	15:09
Surfa	Tili, so basically from now on you should only be concerned of Qt	15:09
Surfa	Tili, it shouldn't be that complicated anymore	15:09
Tili	but I dont want N8 and N97 and N97 mini and 5800 ...... as so different phones that it becomes pain to test on all	15:10
Surfa	do you really have to target on all of them	15:10
Tili	yeah i did my last software in Qt. it was a lot easier	15:10
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Tili	have to mostly	15:10
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Surfa	Tili, ovi store allows you to select target countries and phones i think?	15:10
Tili	else market share is small	15:10
Surfa	oh ok, i see	15:11
Surfa	that's kind of a problem agreed	15:11
Surfa	what kind of qa distribution in ovi store e.g. requires.. i'm not really familiar	15:11
Surfa	could you just occupy community to do qa to some point	15:12
Tili	could be	15:12
Tili	but i am talking about removing root cause	15:12
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Tili	if nokia says that they are going to be more consistent with hardware and make it clear	15:13
Tili	then it should be easier for us	15:13
Tili	i just want simplicity and someone please tell them to start using proper human names for phones	15:13
Tili	it is easier to relate to names than weird numbers like 6120, 6600 N900	15:13
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achipa	Tili: how is it going to be better ? sure, while they have 5 phones, ok, but after 3 years, that's 50 names...	15:16
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Surfa	Tili, if the qt works as it's supposed to, you shouldn't have to make qa for every phone	15:16
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Tili	Surfa: isn't qt sitting on top of Symbian API itself	15:17
Tili	won't we have screen size differences in phones?	15:17
Tili	and memory differences	15:17
Tili	and that would mean that we always need Qa	15:17
Tili	it is not Qt's fault if my app crashes on one phone because of low mem	15:17
achipa	Tili: in theory you can see all sizes in the qt simulator and RDA	15:18
achipa	as for memory, you need to figure out how much you need and solidify that as a requirement	15:18
Surfa	qt equipped phones should have somewhat similar capabilities in terms of memory actually.. and screensize shouldn't be a problem really, use simulator	15:18
Surfa	i hope that you're not developing for highest end nokia phone in a way that you're planning to use all memory and if it's not available.. just crash :)	15:19
Tili	achipa: yes and this is applicable to core Symbian API too. but i have had enough experiences with different devices doing weird things	15:19
achipa	well at least there are no private apis and similar magic here...	15:20
Tili	achipa: indeed. that is why I really hope Nokia shines	15:20
Tili	they did better things for developers in terms of API and how open their phones are to programming	15:20
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Surfa	we'll see as more qt equipped phones arrive	15:23
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Tili	yeah	15:23
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thenewone	Hello	15:26
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damian_-_	will meego boot in virtualbox	15:32
damian_-_	im not having much luck	15:32
slaine	You won't get the fill meego UI as VirtualBox doesn't have appropriate gfx drivers	15:36
slaine	you can get X up though with a basic X desktop for use a development box	15:36
damian_-_	what about guest additions.	15:39
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damian_-_	shouldn't that include a video driver?	15:39
slaine	I said appropriate driver, not no driver	15:39
slaine	it doesn't have a DRI2 compatible driver.	15:39
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querty	sup	15:39
slaine	check out the meego virtualbox wiki entry	15:40
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slaine	I typically have Xfce running in my meego/moblin vbox	15:41
damian_-_	well i wanted to test meego itself. thats ok i give up :P	15:41
damian_-_	thanks	15:41
damian_-_	will this ever be fixed. im assuming this is the same reason why i cant get an image on my ULV laptop. and everyone knows they are taking over netbooks. seems silly not to support them	15:44
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damian_-_	would i have more luck with ubuntu moblin remix.	15:45
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May_	Can Meego Tablet run on N900? I hate the Meego Handset Edition :(	16:00
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May_	<ding>	16:01
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Haruka	Ey ey ey	16:02
Haruka	who is make the UI for Meego Handset?	16:02
Haruka	Hope he may bring Internet Tablet UI into N900	16:02
damian_-_	so i installed this "moblin user experience", moblin, from my ubuntu repos. it loads into a background but nothing else. i CAN press alt+tab and it shows an application menu. whats wrong here	16:03
damian_-_	same driver problems?	16:03
damian_-_	or..?	16:03
Haruka	ah, that is just a UI	16:04
Haruka	Program can't run yet	16:04
Haruka	and nothing works find	16:04
Haruka	Drivers are not enough	16:04
damian_-_	ok	16:05
damian_-_	that sucks	16:05
Haruka	yup	16:05
damian_-_	so whats its point then?	16:05
Haruka	the UI is horrible	16:05
Haruka	just to show off how cool the Meego is	16:05
Haruka	I think!	16:05
damian_-_	ok lol	16:05
Haruka	but it look suck	16:06
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Haruka	or maybe, they want to have some user idea	16:06
damian_-_	ok, yeah it seems to be running on top of gnome. meego isnt gnome is it?	16:06
Haruka	it is DEB Base	16:06
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Haruka	just like the maemo	16:07
damian_-_	ok	16:07
Haruka	Meego on Netbook is horrible too	16:07
Haruka	no Wifi Driver	16:07
Haruka	Meego on Handset, even more horrible	16:08
damian_-_	ahh :P yeah EVERYONE seems to be having problem after problem with it	16:08
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Aard	Haruka: depends on your card	16:08
Haruka	only Meego on Tablet is cool	16:08
Haruka	see the DEMO	16:08
damian_-_	demo?	16:08
Haruka	The INternet Tablet Meego	16:08
Haruka	How cool it is	16:08
Haruka	Look professional	16:08
damian_-_	have a link?	16:09
Haruka	on Youtube	16:09
damian_-_	ok	16:09
Haruka	type Meego Tablet	16:09
Haruka	or something relate	16:09
damian_-_	so anyone know when meego will support ULV laptops and NON intel graphics?	16:09
Haruka	@Aard: I think they should have a repo to download Driver	16:09
damian_-_	we all know netbooks are dying	16:10
damian_-_	seems pointless writing an os for them	16:10
Haruka	replace by Internet Tablet	16:10
Haruka	Netbook should have, because Intel is also a co-op in this Meego Project	16:11
Haruka	so the lead developer can't kick the Netbook Meego out of their Project :))	16:11
damian_-_	ahh of course :)	16:12
Aard	Haruka: atheros-cards are supported, intel ones probably as well	16:12
Haruka	Oh...I just so in love with the Internet Tablet Meego, so cool, so much ideas, so pro...	16:12
Termana	Shit just got real	16:12
Haruka	The Meego Netbook and Handset so amateur	16:13
damian_-_	it loooks nice. but we have android for that	16:13
damian_-_	android is already well extablished	16:13
Haruka	Android, oh...........	16:13
damian_-_	es*	16:14
Haruka	I try to put Android Froyo on N900	16:14
amjad	android is now what 2.2 version,	16:14
damian_-_	yeah 2.2	16:14
Haruka	but when it boot up, it say failed to load, select 2 or 9 for boot from Memory Card or Mass Storage :\|	16:14
damian_-_	and it will always win cos we can boot it on ANYTHING	16:15
amjad	damian_ does android support powerpc ??	16:15
damian_-_	yes	16:15
Haruka	hope Meego can run on iPhone 2G like Android Froyo	16:15
damian_-_	since 2007	16:15
amjad	i saw a project for porting android to playstation 3	16:16
Haruka	Ah...can anyone get Wine run on N900 yet?	16:16
amjad	that is cell b.e architecture	16:16
damian_-_	ahh wow nice. wonder if it runs on my 360 or wii	16:16
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Haruka	Ofcourse Android may run on PS3, but just for fun, It can't use it's power on PS3	16:17
Termana	damian_-_, I think your wrong. Android does NOT support PowerPC. ARM and x86 only	16:17
Termana	Haruka, yes, Wine is running on the n900 under Maemo, with user-mode qemu	16:17
Haruka	ARM and INtel x86	16:17
Haruka	but how to install it?	16:17
Termana	Haruka, no, Android supports AMD fine AFAIK	16:17
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Haruka	where to get the wine.deb?	16:17
Haruka	in maemo.org, their repos don't have wine	16:18
Termana	Haruka, take a gander on t.m.o, I'm sure theres instructions there or something	16:18
Haruka	i love to run some popcap game of windows on N900 :X	16:18
amjad	damian_ to be true, sony in its firmware update on june 1 2010, has taken out otheros, so now ps3 can only run Gameos	16:18
bfree	besides which the "Other OS" on the PS3 is now only for those who don't want to play new games, or blu-ray or use the ps network	16:18
Haruka	Oh! That dump PS3	16:19
Haruka	they do the same thing like xbox360	16:19
damian_-_	termana google it. it DOES run on powerpc	16:19
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bfree	amjad: it was worse, the relevant firmware update was released on APRIL 1st	16:19
amjad	oh ya, it was the final nail in coffin of yellowdog linux	16:19
Haruka	IN HERE, do anyone know the one who make the UI for Meego N900?	16:19
Haruka	does, not do, sorry :P	16:20
amjad	Haruka, you can go to #meego-dev and search there , that may be a better option	16:20
Termana	Haruka, a team at Nokia I assume, since its also the UX for Harmattan	16:21
damian_-_	wow and android works on my wii	16:21
Haruka	Oh, I think they have schedule to online	16:21
damian_-_	sweet	16:21
amjad	great	16:21
damian_-_	but anyway im getting offtopic	16:21
Haruka	Hope, Meego 1.1 Handset will be the Internet Tablet Meego	16:22
Haruka	Xbox360 really need Meego, since it doesn't have a Web Browser	16:23
Haruka	And hope Intel will Deal with Microsoft about this	16:23
amjad	the biggest problem i see in meego as a developer so far is that it is not open, build.meego.com is only for intel/nokia employees	16:24
damian_-_	meego is not opensource?	16:24
Haruka	Ahhh....4 months more, the Meego 1.1 will come out	16:25
Haruka	which means, when the iOS, Android have already taken over the world, Meego will come	16:25
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damian_-_	i wish they would realise people other than netbook users want a simplified UI	16:25
damian_-_	im still trying to hack it to run on my nvidia graphics	16:26
Haruka	you gonna need a Virtual Machine	16:26
Haruka	@damian: You need a VM Box	16:26
damian_-_	it wont run in virtualbox either	16:27
damian_-_	as i found out earlier	16:27
Haruka	@damian: or at least, you can take the Nvidia Driver for Ubuntu, and inject it into Meego Netbook Image	16:27
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damian_-_	i just tried that too. not working.	16:28
Haruka	@damian: I also use Nvidia Card, but I can run Meego using VM Box	16:29
Haruka	maybe, you should look the tutorial again	16:29
damian_-_	well i read u can only use xfce or DWM or something similar	16:30
damian_-_	useless for me wanting to try meego's UI	16:30
Haruka	Try to find Virtual Machine that can emulate CPU Support SSSE3 or SSE3S, and Nvidia turn into VGA card	16:30
Haruka	I tried it, it kinda friendly, but not profesional	16:31
Haruka	only the UI of Internet Tablet Meego is profresional	16:31
Lemoni_	I wonder why Meego is all hus hus all the time..	16:31
Lemoni_	they should start hyping it like its a trend now	16:32
Myrtti	Lemoni_: what would they hype?	16:32
Lemoni_	Everything its based on	16:32
Haruka	@Lemoni: meego is just a new project, a new born baby	16:32
Lemoni_	Yeah but building the hype will increase the intrest of people..	16:33
dockside	MeeGo - "We got a quite active community and code that compiles"	16:33
Haruka	I just hope someone gonna teach me how to get wine run smoothly on N900 Maemo	16:33
damian_-_	haruka what tutorial did you use. and what VM are you using	16:33
Myrtti	Lemoni_: how can you build hype on basically a beta phase software?	16:33
Myrtti	or sorry, not software, a OS platform	16:33
Haruka	@damian: I look for the tutorial on wiki.meego.com/ And I use Virtual Box	16:34
Lemoni_	Easily, hyping all the features that Meego is gonna have	16:34
damian_-_	ok yes same tutorial. you cant use meego's UI	16:34
Lemoni_	Telling people its easy to use, graphically beutiful etc.	16:35
Myrtti	Lemoni_: and show them what, youtube videos? people want the device right now, and if they try it and it's shit, then it's a burst bubble	16:35
Haruka	@damian: Then try to use Virtual Machine	16:35
Lemoni_	Like in Windows i dont like the fact that my desktop is full of various files and stuff.	16:35
Myrtti	one glitch and they hate it and are vocal about it	16:35
Lemoni_	Myrtti maybe people like us.. but its sold to masses, not inviduals.	16:35
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Haruka	go to torrentz, find Virtual Machine, and use Torrent to download	16:36
Lemoni_	im telling you that Seppo 35 years old CEO from company X isnt gonna dl it until its finished and someone else has tryed it first	16:36
Myrtti	Lemoni_: that's exactly the same message I'm telling you. If someone else tries it now because of the hype and it's shit, they'll tell Seppo and Seppo will keep away from it	16:37
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Haruka	Tried it, and it sucked	16:37
Lemoni_	Advertising can be started at beta phase, its not a problem.	16:38
Haruka	the first hit go to the wrong target, then you will get backfire till ya die	16:38
Lemoni_	But Myrtti is see what your saying but still, more information and lil hype wouldnt kill the project	16:39
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Lemoni_	and slowly increase the intrest of people.	16:39
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Haruka	althought it is a BETA, but look back, see the way people want to get a hand on Meego Handset	16:39
Lemoni_	People hyped Android long before it was released	16:39
Lemoni_	and that worked well	16:39
Lemoni_	same as Apple, they hype even their concepts.	16:39
Haruka	but the Beta release, and it dissappoting people	16:39
Myrtti	Lemoni_: and apple starts selling it the day it's announced.	16:40
Haruka	yup	16:40
Myrtti	Lemoni_: they take preorders and in four weeks the people get their devices	16:40
Haruka	that is the way to make Meego Handset gets hot day by day	16:40
Myrtti	the fact is, there is no device to be sold	16:40
Lemoni_	Im a bit dissapointed to n900 and Maemo	16:40
Haruka	yup	16:40
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Lemoni_	since all i see is qt4 demos in the app installer..	16:41
Haruka	Maemo is even better than Meego	16:41
Haruka	the BETA is suck	16:41
Lemoni_	why they demo everything, why they dont just make full apps?	16:41
Myrtti	so what the hype will end up being is waiting for whatever will come out the factory	16:41
Myrtti	and people get frustrated	16:41
ml-mobile	waaaaah it's not perfect!	16:41
Myrtti	it's very difficult to keep the hype up	16:41
Lemoni_	Good pr always is	16:41
Lemoni_	and its not something that people like us do..	16:42
Lemoni_	Good marketing requires a good working team	16:42
Lemoni_	and i dont think Meego has the cash for that atm	16:42
Haruka	Oh! But look! The Meego Tablet is so cool	16:42
ml-mobile	that's not MeeGo's job	16:42
Myrtti	Lemoni_: Meego isn't a product to be hyped	16:42
Myrtti	Lemoni_: it's the devices that ship with it	16:42
Haruka	only Meego Handset does sucking people	16:42
Myrtti	and for that the job for hype building is for the manufacturers	16:43
ml-mobile	meego handset isn't done, obviously	16:43
Lemoni_	Does Meego port on n900 have portrait mode?	16:43
Haruka	Meego is late, Nokia is late, Intel can't bring up the speed for the Meego project	16:43
Lemoni_	one thing im missing in my n900 is that	16:43
ml-mobile	waaaah	16:43
Lemoni_	Im not trusting Intel on that	16:44
Haruka	@Lemoni: Yup, it has portrait mode	16:44
Lemoni_	since i tryed Moblin and it was complete shit	16:44
ml-mobile	apparently Intel and Nokia should have kept it all closed until it was done	16:44
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Lemoni_	compared to Jolicloud which stated "Alpha pre release when i dl:d it	16:44
Haruka	@mobile: yup	16:44
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ml-mobile	Haruka: which defeats the point of being open	16:45
damian_-_	ok so apparently a simple boot into runlevel 3 and "sudo startx" will run meego in virtualbox. or am i wasting my time	16:45
Lemoni_	i think they announced the meego cos people were asking questions about maemo 6	16:45
Myrtti	ml-mobile: but THAT would keep the HYPE!	16:45
* Myrtti facepalms		16:45
ml-mobile	if you like that model go work on Android	16:45
Myrtti	speculation is apparently what makes the world go round	16:45
Myrtti	speculation and complaining	16:45
Haruka	@all: THE MEEGO HANDSET IS A FIRST HIT THAT TAKE THE MOST DAMAGE TO ANDROID AND iOS, BUT IT LOST IT FIRST POINT!!!	16:46
Termana	Haruka, please lay off the caps	16:46
ml-mobile	haruka: obviously open source development is too much for you to handle	16:46
Lemoni_	u guys developing anything for Maemo or Meego?	16:47
Haruka	@mobile: I just want to have my N900 Meego look like Tablet Meego	16:47
Myrtti	good luck in that	16:47
ml-mobile	haruka: and when the tablet UX is released, it could be ported.	16:47
Haruka	I, and almost everyone does	16:48
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Haruka	hope someone teachs me how to get wine run on N900?	16:48
ml-mobile	why?	16:48
Haruka	want to run popcap games on N900 :P	16:49
ml-mobile	that would be horridly slow	16:49
Haruka	OMG :(	16:49
Haruka	or teach me how to install Froyo on N900	16:49
Haruka	I Boot it up	16:50
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Haruka	It run the code	16:50
Haruka	and it stuck	16:50
ml-mobile	are the games Flash?	16:50
Haruka	not flash	16:50
Haruka	Plants vs Zombies	16:50
Haruka	:P	16:50
Haruka	think you know tha t game	16:50
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ml-mobile	didn't realize they wrote that	16:50
biertie	anyone already tried meego on his n900?	16:50
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ml-mobile	is it x86 or ARM?	16:51
Haruka	Meego on N900 is suck!!!	16:51
Myrtti	biertie: s/his/their/	16:51
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Haruka	who is his?	16:51
Haruka	"his"?	16:51
biertie	well, the one with a n900	16:51
biertie	^^	16:51
biertie	who tried meego on it	16:51
Haruka	I''m a girl :(	16:51
biertie	*with an	16:51
biertie	oh, srry Haruka :(	16:51
Haruka	OMG :\|	16:52
microlith	haruka you really, really need to chill out	16:52
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biertie	but english is not my native language, so... :-)	16:52
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Haruka	english is also not my native language	16:52
Haruka	:P	16:52
microlith	ranting about MeeGo on the N900 now is way too early	16:52
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Haruka	I get Meego run on N900	16:53
Haruka	but I mostly can't run a thing	16:53
microlith	right	16:53
Haruka	just the UI	16:53
microlith	it's at best an early alpha	16:53
Lemoni_	(+i)] [5:!serveri(+lnst 123)] [Act: 6,10,11]	16:53
Lemoni_	[!serveri] 62.881289, 27.701939C	16:53
Haruka	Have to wait till October	16:53
microlith	it's not done, but they decided to not hold it back	16:53
Lemoni_	soz for that	16:53
Lemoni_	lol :d	16:53
biertie	k, so I should wait some more months :-)	16:53
Lemoni_	Coordinates to our grill party today :D	16:53
Haruka	They release the Alpha, because they really want we give them idea to build Meego	16:54
microlith	if you want to write software or do system development, you can	16:54
microlith	and that's really who it is targeted at	16:54
microlith	not end users	16:54
Haruka	yup, it is for developers	16:54
amjad	ya thats what they are looking, play and burn your hands with meego :)	16:55
Haruka	easier to write software to run on Meego Handset	16:55
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Haruka	but, hope someone will port the UI from Meego Tablet to Meego Handset	16:55
damian_-_	ok good. i got meego to boot in virtualbox	16:56
damian_-_	looks nice	16:56
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Haruka	@damian: Yup, it's friendly	16:56
Haruka	look kinda cute :P	16:56
Haruka	still, the repo and programs to run on Meego Netbook are not much :P	16:57
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damian_-_	most of them are gtk apps anyway? cheese webcam comes with it. i know thats a gtk app	16:57
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amjad	yes	16:57
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damian_-_	slaine, i got it to boot in vbox if your interested	16:58
slaine	damian_-_: cool, well done	16:58
damian_-_	:)	16:59
slaine	You should probably document what you did for others	16:59
amjad	yes damina	17:00
damian_-_	i will do. there is quite a few people wondering how	17:00
damian_-_	where would be the best place	17:00
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amjad	damian_:http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_VirtualBox, not sure if this is what your are looking at	17:03
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damian_-_	thats not publically editable but i was thinking of updating those instructions. i do have the UI working	17:05
damian_-_	i will email them	17:05
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slaine	has anyone managed to use the Chome version of meego ?	17:15
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slaine	meego netbook that is	17:15
slaine	I tried to boot the usb key image and it hard hangs	17:15
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damian_-_	damn, so i dont know what happened	17:24
damian_-_	now i cant get past the text login screen	17:24
damian_-_	boot into runlevel 3	17:25
damian_-_	but no matter what it wont recognize my password	17:25
amjad	so problems with gdm ??	17:25
damian_-_	not even.	17:26
damian_-_	the equivelent screen to pressing ctrl alt f1	17:26
damian_-_	afaik meego doesnt include gdm	17:27
damian_-_	if someone wants to try you can install meego. boot into runlevel 3 from grub. then install graphics drivers. then a simple sudo startx will run the ui	17:28
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damian_-_	but using my instructions i cant seem to get past the text login screen	17:31
damian_-_	i reinstalled 3 times now	17:31
damian_-_	it did work the first time	17:31
damian_-_	until my pc froze and i had to kill vbox	17:31
damian_-_	ever since it doesnt accept my username/password	17:31
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damian_-_	is there some default password i can try?	17:34
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damian_-_	i tried meego, meego	17:35
damian_-_	i tried root, damian (what i setup during install)	17:35
damian_-_	and damian, damian	17:35
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damian_-_	also what i nsetup in install	17:35
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damian_-_	ok so i am getting somewhere	17:40
damian_-_	whats the command for gdm or equiv in meego?	17:41
amjad	damian_ did you try root,meego??	17:42
amjad	just for fun :)	17:42
rektide	when is the next irc meeting ?	17:46
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damian_-_	yeah	17:46
damian_-_	oh well i give up.	17:47
damian_-_	i tried the same thing using the livecd	17:47
damian_-_	well so to speak "live usb"	17:47
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damian_-_	but the same commands simply load failsafe x server	17:47
damian_-_	not the meego gui	17:48
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damian_-_	what is the command to start the meego gui?	17:48
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amjad	uxlaunch	17:49
damian_-_	ok awesome	17:52
damian_-_	got it to work	17:52
damian_-_	be back. needa reboot	17:53
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dive	I'm using the howto on the wiki for running a n900 in qemu using the git qemu and the nokia nand image. It starts up, shows a logo, but then the defaul xorg starts and uxlaunch does nothing. Not only that but xorg is unusable - ie it doesn't greba mouse/keyboard doesn't work. Any ideas what to try next?	18:34
dive	er grab mouse*	18:35
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CosmoHill	lcuk2: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/cosmo_cluster/desk1.jpg	19:46
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kerio	is there a build of meego for n900 yet?	19:58
kerio	and is it usable?	19:58
CosmoHill	define usable	19:59
CosmoHill	do you want to make actual calls with it?	19:59
kerio	well... sorta, i guess	20:00
kerio	it's a phone	20:00
kerio	:)	20:00
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CosmoHill	then no	20:03
kerio	aw	20:03
kerio	:(	20:03
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kerio	oh well i guess i could try dualbooting it	20:03
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pwnguin	i read it meego doesn't charge n900s yet?	20:06
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alterego	pwnguin: correct, it's very far from usable at the moment. :)	20:07
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CosmoHill	pre-alpha i think	20:07
pwnguin	is it that the code didn't get ported over, or that nokia never published it?	20:07
CosmoHill	things are being moved over from closed to open source	20:08
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alterego	pwnguin: last minute bugs have forced them to not make it available right now. Can expect it in a week or so	20:08
pwnguin	hmm. my understanding is that batteries have encryption and whatnot	20:08
pwnguin	but ive never tried a 3rd party replacement on maemo let alone meego	20:09
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dive	are there any good repos for dev tools for meego on n900 yet?	20:44
dive	things like make, autoconf etc?	20:44
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andyross	dive: All those are in the repos, yes. Check http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/source/ for the current list, but basically meego looks like a desktop linux distro for most thigns.	20:47
ScottishDuck	It certainly is like a desktop linux distro, the size of the rootfs made that clear	20:48
dive	andyross, thanks	20:50
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ScottishDuck	I just found part of the meego n900 bloat :\|	21:27
ScottishDuck	sample-media	21:27
ScottishDuck	cool 140MB file	21:27
ScottishDuck	really... what is that doing there	21:29
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slaine	flash is really getting me down man	21:33
slaine	it's like, totally slow and stuff	21:34
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* CosmoHill hugs slaine		21:34
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ScottishDuck	anyone know how to blacklist packages using the .ks file?	21:34
slaine	put a - in front of the name	21:35
ScottishDuck	doh	21:35
ScottishDuck	should have tried that first	21:35
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ScottishDuck	here goes... might finally get an image that will fit on the n900	21:36
ScottishDuck	also using btrfs instead of ext3...	21:37
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Sage	http://www.itviikko.fi/ratkaisut/2010/07/02/meegon-alustasta-ilmestyi-11--versio/20109266/7?rss=8	23:54
Sage	The handset day 1 has been mis interpret as MeeGo 1.1 :/	23:55
w00t_	yes, because of a lot of idiots managing to write the wrong thing	23:55
w00t_	plus it was kind of a confusing idea	23:55
w00t_	but then I don't think anyone from tech media relishes getting facts right so much as getting a headline	23:56
Sage	btw, how many of people here are coming to the akademy 2010 tomorrow?	23:57
Kaadlajk	\o	23:57
Kaadlajk	atleast to the party :PP	23:57
Sage	o/	23:57
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* w00t_ mutters		23:57
w00t_	I really should have gone	23:57
Sage	But that 1.1 release is something that should have been advertised as 1.1 alpha or something. But I guess that does not matter so much?	23:59
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w00t_	Sage: was that even 1.1? I thought it was 1.0+handset UX	23:59

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