IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2010-06-01

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StskeepsGeorgiusCz: --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags=no-omap-wd,no-ext-wd , add that00:00
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rolsworthi just tried this OS on my Eeepc yesterday00:25
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rolsworthis it a beta? for a linux distro it does not seem to have anything00:26
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rolsworthno office software00:26
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w00t_early days for one, yes00:28
rolsworthbut where are the software00:28
rolsworthnot compatible ?00:28
w00t_go get packaging, and it'll be there00:28
rolsworthwhat?00:29
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w00t_point being, that it's early days, so everything under the sun isn't going to be available out of the box yet00:30
w00t_if you want it, you're probably going to have to make it work, or wait for someone else to do so00:30
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renatohi all, I need to mount my extenal drive "ext4" in my meego netbook. What is the best solution for this? recompile the kernel? Or there is the ext4 module compiled in some place?01:04
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CosmoHillisn't ext4 backward compatable with ext3 and 2?01:18
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renatoCosmoHill, I think no because I tried mount with -t ext3 and ext2 and does not work01:38
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* CosmoHill does a bit more revision for tomorrow's exam02:19
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CosmoHillnight night02:56
CosmoHillwish me luck in my exam :o02:56
TSCHAKeee2good luck02:57
TSCHAKeee2:)02:57
jannegext4 with extents is not backwards compatible02:57
CosmoHillI feel much more confident now after all my revision :)02:57
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TSCHAKeee2janneg: were you the one who wrote the hdpvr driver?02:58
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jannegTSCHAKeee2: yes03:11
* TSCHAKeee2 hugs janneg03:12
TSCHAKeee2janneg: thanks, man.03:12
TSCHAKeee2janneg: it took us a while, but finally got it folded into LinuxMCE, plug and play.. but it works very well.03:12
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jannegyour welcome. and feel kind of bad since the driver could be better. (un)fortunately I don't use it day to day since I have working digital capture devices03:17
jannegI feel03:17
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csdHi I'm looking at the n900 kickstart and it points to this URL http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/arm/os which doesn't exist - anyone know the right URL?04:10
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rolsworththe update feature on this os does not work05:56
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rainIDanybody here?06:49
Guest21074rainID: Sort of.06:51
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Purpdankdo you guys think meego will beat android ?07:55
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arjanthat question depends on how you see "beat"07:56
arjan;)07:56
arjanmarketshare... we're a bit behind in terms of time07:56
arjanin terms of features/coolness ? we'll try ;)07:57
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tyler_As of this moment, the two operating systems are designed for different purposes.07:57
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tyler_MeeGo goes on netbooks, Android goes on phones.07:57
Purpdanki mean beat as in popularity and revenues07:57
tyler_Unless I'm missing something...07:57
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Purpdankbut meego is planning on coming to mobile devices as well i thoguht07:58
Purpdankand android is coming to tablets and netbooks no ?07:58
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Stskeepsyeah, but is android really a netbook OS? :P07:59
Stskeepsit's more like a phone os moved to places it doesn't belong07:59
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petteriPurpdank: of course meego will beat android :)07:59
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Purpdankwell i was thinking more about mobile devices, since meego is going to mobile devices, do you think it will be able to compete with the android os on mobile devices07:59
tyler_It's probably too early to tell.08:00
Purpdanktrue08:00
tyler_Android has a huge market share.08:00
Purpdankwhats so special about meego though ? like sell me, why should i buy a meego phone over an android phone08:00
tyler_And it's already starting to be sold by different OEMs already.08:01
tyler_I like where MeeGo is headed though. It's UI layout is pretty well thought out.08:01
tyler_It's just that, functionality wise, It's just not usable.08:02
StskeepsPurpdank: it's a real computer in your pocket, not just a smartphone :)08:02
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StskeepsPurpdank: there's no such thing as a meego phone yet, so hard to argue08:02
Purpdanktrue08:02
Purpdanki think it will fail, i'd marry android if i could08:03
Stskeepswhy are we arguing then? you're a troll? :P08:03
Purpdank:(08:03
Purpdankno im not08:03
spideyou shouldn't just look at the sw. every phone is a individual. hw and sw combined.08:03
Purpdankof course spide08:03
Termanagood morning Stskeeps08:03
tyler_I didn't know it was an argument, I thought it was a debate.08:03
Purpdanki didnt know it was a argument or debate, i was just curious :(08:04
StskeepsPurpdank: best thing to do is try out both phone OS'es when they're productized. i like meego cos it's real open source, not just available to OEMs ahead of time08:04
spideand currently n900 is closest thing to a phone that I want.08:04
Stskeepsfor a consumer, meego will be the one empowering you, not taking away your abilities to do what you want with your device08:04
PurpdankStskeeps, you sound like some bs salesmen lol08:05
Stskeepsas well as one qt api over several devices08:05
tyler_How does Android take away your abilities to do what you want with your device?08:05
StskeepsPurpdank: nah, i just didn't have my coffee yet or meds ;p08:05
spideI can't describe how cool it was when I was visiting a friend who had lost his tv remote and was stuck at 4:3 ar.08:05
Termanatyler_, no root access on most Android phones for starters08:05
tyler_I don't see how the company or how the software is restrictive in any way?08:05
tyler_Yeah, but you can enable it.08:05
spidei took out my trusty n900, downloaded the remote to irreco and fixed the situation :)08:05
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Purpdankwhat does the average consumer need root access for anyways ? you can enable root on android devices though08:06
Termanatyler_, no you cannot just enable it on most Android phones08:06
tyler_The point is, you can download the Android source and make your own. The carriers rolling out Android phones are the ones who disable root access.08:06
tyler_Sorry, I'll rephrase. You can install a custom version of Android that has root enabled.08:06
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Purpdanki thought you could tyler_ , people make their own versions of the android os all the time and release them08:07
Purpdankam i wrong?08:07
TermanaExploits have been made available for the most popular Android phones that will allow you to have root access and ROM replacement abilities. Most of them this is not true for08:07
Stskeepsand how did that work out of cyanogen? ;)08:07
Stskeepsfor08:07
Stskeepseither way, this bends down to a simple thing, if you're a consumer looking at meego, go look at actual implementations of it08:07
tyler_Yeah, and it's the carriers and manufacturers that do that. Not the android devolopers.08:07
Stskeepsif you're a systems manufactorer, you look at meego system08:08
Purpdankbrb08:08
tyler_Yeah, this isn't some philosophical open source vs. closed source issue. Whether or not MeeGo offers more functionality then Android is what's going to matter.08:08
tyler_IMHO of course.08:08
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gourmorning09:09
gouris claws available for meego?09:09
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BThi, need some help to run meego on beagleboard09:40
BTall the files for rootfs are inside a dir meego-rootfs, why its so?09:41
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Stskeepsif it's the kernel and lib/modules, dump them on top of the n900 image09:49
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BTI have my linux kernel (uimahe) in FAT partition and rootfs in ext3 partition09:51
BTI saw all the files are inside meego-rootfs dir09:52
BTso I moved all to root dir09:52
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BTmount: mount point /sys/kernel/debug/ does not exist09:52
Stskeepsfollowing http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_the_Beagle ?09:52
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BTUnknown HZ value! (87) Assume 100.09:52
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BTand then stops09:52
tyler_Heh, Meego on the Beagle... cute name.09:53
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sivulo09:58
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BTtoday http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_the_Beagle  is website has been updated10:24
BTI have followed what was on yesterday10:24
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Stskeepsmight have been10:25
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* gour is thinking about dell's 1012 netbook to be used for meego...anyone using it here?10:45
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thiagoI've only heard of samsungs and lenovos10:47
thiagothe important thing is to have a good Intel graphics card (not GMA950)10:47
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gourdell 1012 is on the list of supported devices10:48
gourGMA 315010:48
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Stskeepsmorn slaine10:52
slainehey guys10:52
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timeless_mbphi slaine10:53
* timeless_mbp sighs10:54
timeless_mbpwtf10:55
slainethat was a one awesome weekend10:55
* slaine is soooo tired10:55
timeless_mbphttp://mxr.moego.org/repo2.meego.com/source/post-build-checks-1.0/10:55
timeless_mbpslaine: any idea why "patches" there is a symlink to '..' ?10:55
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* timeless_mbp grumbles10:55
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* timeless_mbp ponders10:56
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timeless_mbpthat was incredibly rude of it10:57
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timeless_mbpsure, let's include the entire world10:57
* timeless_mbp sighs10:59
timeless_mbpsp3000: so.. that's the reason that mxr normally doesn't try to split things up11:00
timeless_mbpit relies on find protecting itself from certain levels of stupidity11:00
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gouri know it may be too early considering that handheld ui is not released, but i wonder how much work is, in general, expected to have qt app working on desktop, netbook & handheld, i.e. having one common codebase?11:47
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giedzanyone /11:48
giedzwill meego run on marvel?11:49
Stskeepswhat type of processor is it?11:49
giedzarm11:49
Stskeepsgour: i'd say high, if you seperate model and views11:49
Stskeepsif ARMv5, possibly, but you'll need GLES2 for a good experience11:49
giedzthx11:50
gourStskeeps: you mean high level of common code?11:50
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sivangmorning all11:51
sivangStskeeps: high meaninig, too much work?11:52
Stskeepsgour: yes11:52
sivangStskeeps: but the SDK promoted code once, build on a bunch of places11:52
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sivang*is promoted with11:52
Stskeepssorry, didn't read your question completely11:52
sivangStskeeps: :)11:52
gourStskeeps: thanks. that is very encouraging to stay with meego11:52
Stskeepskeep in mind the UI you'll need is different on various platforms11:53
Stskeepsie, touch ui isnt good for netbook ;)11:53
sivangStskeeps: I wonder if that can be automated as well11:53
sivangStskeeps: in the SDK11:53
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sivangStskeeps: I mean, there's already automatic presentation suited for either screen size and device using the QT API, but didn't realize you need to write different UIs per input method.11:54
Stskeepswell, desktop and touch interfaces traditionally differ in usage..11:55
sivangStskeeps: as in, on Maemo it has the hildon look, on MeeGo the meego look on symbian, the symbian look at.11:55
Stskeepsbut i'm just talking out of my ass11:55
Stskeeps:P11:55
sivangStskeeps: but if you just use the touch screen as a mouse...11:55
sivangStskeeps: :)11:55
sivangStskeeps: right, you can make the experience easier by providing more obvious touch areas for functionality11:55
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sivangStskeeps: which you normally can slack off developing desktop ui11:55
gourStskeeps: sure...but most of the code could be hopefully shared11:55
sivanggour: it can, yes.11:56
sivanggour: we've seen a live deme of this last week.11:56
sivanggour: very cool.11:56
goursivang: really? this is awesome11:56
sivanggour: simulation and testing is also transparent to the user, including agains the device when plugged into the host where the SDK runs11:56
sivanggour: it is.11:56
goursivang: i hope it will be the same considering we plan to use qthaskell11:57
sivanggour: "we" hhe, I meant, "I" saw , when I was in the Developer workshop.11:57
sivanggour: more into func programming?11:57
pupnikwhy not build a UI that falls back to "no animations" when a GPU with compositing is not present11:57
goursivang: yep11:57
sivangpupnik++11:57
pupnikmaybe someone with 15 knowledge can comment on feasability of that11:58
pupnikQT knowledge11:58
sivangpupnik: I'd extend this to more capabilities. http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-May/002504.html11:59
sivangpupnik: "I have a dream."11:59
sivangpupnik: :)11:59
pupniksivang: that could also make it network capable11:59
pupnikok reading11:59
* pupnik joins sivang's army12:00
sivanghehe12:00
pupnikthe UI concept is doable imo12:01
sivangI think so as well.12:01
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pupnikevery animation either loops or has a start and end point.  The UI framework could allow the dev to specify start state and end state (for e.g. a zoom) and if no GPU is present, the library will just draw end state12:02
pupnikor something like that12:03
pupnikmaybe you can explain it better12:03
pupnikan example everyone should be familiar with is how WMs (like in windows 98) to disable animations when dragging windows12:04
pupniks/to/can12:04
pupnikmaybe i should go to that akademy and make a stink about it12:04
sivangyes, so easing curves could just be plain boring and appear at the start of the curve and then at the end.12:05
sivangpupnik: stink?12:05
sivangakademy is nice12:05
sivangnever been there though.12:05
pupnikwell you know, whine :)12:05
sivanghehe12:05
sivangok12:05
sivangpupnik: better provide a patch!12:05
pupnikthat is a good joke12:06
pupnikstill, it would be the only way to prove it12:06
pupnikprove as in 'test'12:06
sivangright12:07
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BThi, just now itried meego on beagleboard, getting error mount: mount point /sys/kernel/debug/ does not exist12:09
Stskeepsordinary error12:09
BThow do I start X? and whats the root password?12:09
sivanga feature? =)12:09
sivangme has to get thiz beagleboard12:10
BTroot password?12:10
gourBT meego?12:10
BTyes meego on beableboard12:12
BTmay be silly Q, how to extract meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-sda.raw in SD card rootfs?12:13
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timeless_mbpgour: in theory QML + whatever will save your world12:16
timeless_mbpthe reality is that no markup language works that way12:17
BTanyone tried meego on beagleboard?12:17
timeless_mbpcompare Firefox with Firefox for Mobile12:17
timeless_mbpthey're similar, but they aren't the same12:17
timeless_mbpit just doesn't make sense12:17
timeless_mbpsure you can use Chromium e.g. on the n90012:17
timeless_mbpbut it's annoying12:17
gourtimeless_mbp: yeah, qml looks promising, at least with quick-creator to help designers12:17
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timeless_mbpgour: i've been using XUL for a decade now12:18
timeless_mbpi think of QML as "yet another XML that came 15 years late"12:18
gourheh12:18
gourtimeless_mbp: how late is meego?12:18
timeless_mbpXML isn't wonderful,….12:18
* gour nods12:18
thiagotimeless_mbp: except it's not XML12:18
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timeless_mbpthiago: nor was VB's markup12:19
timeless_mbpnor was Delphi's12:19
timeless_mbpbut VB took over the world12:19
thiagobecause it was easy12:19
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* timeless_mbp shrugs12:20
sivangRetarted is the word :)12:20
timeless_mbpcoming 15 years late to a party is kinda bad12:20
sivangit is12:21
sivangyour dancing partners are all gone12:21
sivang:/12:21
timeless_mbpi'm mean, welcome, glad you could (try to) make it12:21
sivangheh12:21
sivangtimeless_mbp: are we going to trim down or cut/modify chromium or do they alrady have a mobile version?12:21
timeless_mbpwho is we?12:21
timeless_mbpi'm working on fennec12:21
sivangerr12:22
* gour prefers to use fennec12:22
sivangwe = meego community ?12:22
timeless_mbpthe n900 chromium is just desktop chromium12:22
timeless_mbpi'm going to ignore chromium12:22
BTpinging : any one tried meego on beagleboard?12:22
timeless_mbpi'm assuming that since the n900 port looks just like desktop chromium that they don't have a mobile one12:22
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sivangtimeless_mbp: but it uses webkit :=)12:23
timeless_mbpbecause if they did, surely the porter would have been smart enough to package that instead12:23
timeless_mbpsivang: which webkit12:23
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sivangtimeless_mbp: indeed12:23
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timeless_mbphttp://www.quirksmode.org/webkit.html12:23
sivangtimeless_mbp: well, at least I know (and I know nothing) that Chrome is using webkit no?12:23
timeless_mbp> And remember [kids]:12:23
timeless_mbp> There is no “WebKit on mobile!”12:23
timeless_mbpsivang: webkit makes unix forking look simple12:23
sivanghaha12:24
sivangwithout synchro?12:24
timeless_mbpand i mean that as a family of sexually dysfunctional operating systems12:24
sivang:)12:24
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sivangWell, I thought, with the unification and direction of QT on MeeGo, webkit sounded natural. Until you're forking example :)12:25
sivang*your12:25
sivangtimeless_mbp: I attribute this to childhood trauma the unices suffered.12:25
timeless_mbpactually, perhaps i should offer: http://www.smokeybear.com/vault/history_main.asp12:25
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timeless_mbpbut anyway12:26
sivangtimeless_mbp: but for netbook there's chromium there no?12:26
sivangthe netbook UE12:26
timeless_mbpchrome's out of process solution for webkit isn't the same as apple's12:26
timeless_mbpand i can't figure out which one is the official upstream solution12:26
timeless_mbpi'm 99% certain it isn't chrome's12:26
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timeless_mbpi'm unsure if it matches apple's12:26
MyrttiI think I need more coffee12:27
timeless_mbpactually, web browser ancestry is probably worse than unix ancestry12:27
sivangtimeless_mbp: so threading is the original approach ?12:27
BTafter starting the kernel, will there be any UI in the display? and whats the login username password?12:27
sivangMyrtti: we bore you again?12:27
timeless_mbpsivang: what i mean is that calling 'chrome' 'webkit'12:27
timeless_mbpis ignoring the fact that 'webkit' is doing 'something else' for a 'key feature'12:27
sivangtimeless_mbp: ah , okay noted.12:27
timeless_mbpeveryone's moving to multiple processes, even firefox12:27
timeless_mbp(4.0, fennec, whatever)12:28
BTsivang : can you help to run meego on beagleboard12:28
Myrttisivang: no, I bore myself12:29
sivangMyrtti: hehe12:29
sivangBT: I wish I had one, sorry I don't12:29
timeless_mbpoh wow, smokey the bear was in the public domain and was taken out of it12:29
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sivangtimeless_mbp: how's smokey related to browser history ?12:33
troozersHi Guru's... can anyone point me in the direction of the MeeGo N900 install instructions..? cant seem to find them on the wiki12:33
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sivangtroozers: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_native_install_on_N900 ?12:34
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troozersta muchly sivang12:35
troozers:)12:35
sivangtroozers: you're welcome12:35
timeless_mbpsivang: oh, smokey was famous for saying "Remember...."12:36
timeless_mbp"only you can prevent forest fires"12:36
sivangsure12:36
sivangI used to listen to it in Ithaca's College Radio12:36
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timeless_mbpi was pointing to the 'remember' from the quirksmode webkit comparison12:36
sivangheh12:36
sivangok12:36
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sivangtimeless_mbp: that comaprison is good12:37
sivangtimeless_mbp: I di prefer firefox(mozilla codebase) but chrom (or webkit?) is so fast with most of the stuff I do, at least on the desktop12:38
sivangtimeless_mbp: I have a desktop from 2004, chrome provides a quicker (not better! it drives me crazy with its caching when doing webdev so I switch to firefox/firebug)12:39
sivangtimeless_mbp: experience.12:39
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sivangtimeless_mbp: on a latest machine at work I just firefox solely.12:39
Bostikfirebug + webdeveloper are invaluable, that much I agree with12:40
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* timeless_mbp can *not* figure out how to play smoke jumper :(12:40
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sivangBostik: chrome sucks badly for web dev, at least for me it killed many hours when working with mod_rewrite and friends12:40
Bostiksivang: for me chrome sucks for general use too, because it A) does not honour fontconfig, and B) does not allow any kind of content-policy (adblock+ and friends)12:42
* timeless_mbp chuckles12:42
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* timeless_mbp got −1 fires12:42
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Bostiksome of my other gripes are minor and subject to improvements in relatively near future12:43
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Bostikbut completely separate font-rendering causes a visually unappealing experience, and the inability to blacklist stuff from ever even being loaded is a big problem12:45
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troozershi all, i am following the n900 install instructions but can't find the .zImage kernel image.. any ideas?12:52
macronI am trying to remember, does anybody know if there is a problem with ATI graphics cards?  I am trying to install Meego in a Lenovo T60p, it seems to think it installs, but I never get more than the blue Meego screen.12:54
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macronAlt-F1 does not provide a shell, so it must be something deeper than X.12:54
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pupnikfor development there should be a way to boot to console12:55
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thiagomacron: did you install the ATI opengl drivers before you tried to boot meego?12:56
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macronNo, how can I install the drivers when I do not even get a shell?12:57
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macronI am misunderstanding something.....12:57
sx0nmacron, maybe you could boot to single user mode?12:57
thiagomacron: you need to install them before you bring up the UI12:58
thiagomeego requires OpenGL12:58
macronOK, I have a DVD with the Meego Netbook image on it, when I start the installation procedure every goes well.12:58
macronI restart the device at the end of the procedure, and it asks me for a user name, timezone etc.  then it restarts and I do not get a commandline.12:59
macronSo I guess this means that the image I have does not have the ATI opengl drivers.12:59
thiagocorrect12:59
thiagoATI proprietary drivers are not shipped12:59
pupnikcan you pass "single" to boot cmdline?13:00
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macronpupnik: how is that usually done?13:00
macronI cannot seem to break into the boot procedure, (or I do not know the secret key combination).13:01
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macronthiago: are the ATI drivers available?13:02
thiagomacron: from ATI13:02
thiagogo talk to them13:02
macron(Do you have their address?) :)13:02
tyler_Relative to my interests since I want to install Nvidia drivers on MeeGo.13:02
pupniki thought there would be a boot command line13:02
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pupnikit still uses grub, no?13:03
thiagomacron: ati.com13:03
pupnik"Edit the boot command line to remove "quiet" and13:03
pupnikboot to single user mode.  Watch the boot progress for errors/hangs.  Check out13:03
pupnikthe dmesg log. If you get to single user mode, try startx.  if this fails13:03
pupnikreview the xorg log.13:03
tyler_MeeGo is a Linux distribution like any other, there has to be a way to install the driver through a root shell.13:04
thiagoyou can always use a rescue live-CD and install the thing13:05
macronThe issue is to get the root shell in the first place.  I never get a command prompt.13:05
troozersanyone know where the MeeGo linux kernel image (.zImage) resides for the N900.. .doesn't seem to be where the ubiimg sits13:06
gourhow one can try to start meego from the shell? startx gives twb :-/13:06
thiagogour: what did you download?13:07
gourthiago: netbook-chromium image which i just installed under vbox13:07
pupnikthat sucks macron.  there should be a boot prompt somewhere13:07
thiagothen I don't know13:07
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jarkko^i get atleats X11 + twm inside vbox13:07
pupnikor use a bootable cd/stick to edit the meego startup to go to console runlevel13:07
jarkko^but no luck with the netbook UX13:08
tyler_Yeah, try pupnik's advice.13:08
jarkko^sudo telinit 3 && sudo startx seems work13:08
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pupnikhow do you type that from a blue-screen-of-fail?13:10
jarkko^i pressed esc to get into grub menu13:10
jarkko^and then removed silent from the boot line13:10
pupnikexcellent..13:11
jarkko^after boot is complete i just press alt-f1 to get into console login13:11
jarkko^and then sudo telinit 313:11
tyler_Nice.13:11
sx0njarkko^, nice hacking ;)13:11
tyler_Yeah, good job.13:12
BTwhats the root password in meego in beagleboard?13:12
pupnikmacron: heads-up13:12
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tyler_macron: Let us know how it turns out :) Good luck to ye.13:13
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pupnikBT: tried meego, rootme, thoughtpolice ?13:14
macronThanks for the advice.13:14
gaveenMight've already seen: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/meego-moorestown-powered-tablet-hands-on/13:14
sx0ni want one... i am just surfing intel's motherboards from amazon.13:15
BTpassword as thoughtpolice and rootme? both tried13:15
sx0nmeego?13:16
sx0nah ok.13:16
tyler_I think MeeGo would work great on a tablet due to it's UI design and it's speed.13:16
sx0nmoorestown tablet looks like mirror.13:17
BTpassword meego works thanks sx0n13:17
BThow to start the UI?13:17
* slaine is eager to see meego on a tablet13:18
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pupnika tablet with niced bluetooth keyboard would look good on a coffeetable13:19
tyler_Wouldn't you have to lean over to view it? Or would it be propped up at an angle?13:20
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kaz2057hi13:21
pupnikneeds a stand13:21
tyler_What I would love to do with a tablet is to mount it on a wall and integrate it with a house wide media system.13:22
tyler_That's some fancy dreaming though.13:22
kaz2057anyone use gmail with evolution? i have problem with gmail and "mail preview" on myzone ...13:22
kaz2057myzone alert me hotmail news just ... gmail not working ...13:23
kaz2057anybody has my same problem?13:23
sx0ntyler, i would piss off few ipad fans. :)13:24
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pupnikwhy dont we have laser projectors?  product liability/legal?13:24
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pupnikonly rear-view are available13:25
tyler_If the Ipad had more features then I would buy it.13:25
tyler_Jobs firm stance on app store regulation and Flash makes me rage.13:26
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troozersok that didn't seem to work... NAND flashed my N900, but just get tux in the top left and then all goes dark13:26
troozerscan someone confirm i've got the right files?13:29
jarkko^http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_VirtualBox13:30
troozersgot the .ubiimg from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/0.9.80.1.20100330.1/n900/images/meego-codedrop-arm-n900/13:30
jarkko^i added my instructions there13:30
jarkko^or more like notes13:30
troozersand the linux kernel image from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/13:30
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macronpupnik: Thanks for the editing tip for the boot command line (hitting Esc got me to the grub menu, and tab let me do the editing).13:33
macronAny way to get the ATI opengl drivers using the commandline?13:33
sivangtimeless: you know limi ?13:33
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pupnikmacron: thank you also - i am learning from people's problems13:34
tyler_Can't you wget?13:35
pupnikis wget installed? ;)13:35
tyler_Good point - is it?13:35
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macronwget should be there.13:35
tyler_Emphasis on 'should.'13:36
tyler_But you should be able to wget the binary blob and install it from the shell... unless I'm mistaken.13:37
tyler_Lol, I'm going to have to deal with this problem when I install Nvidia drivers.13:38
kaz2057but repo is meebo just? or are there external once?13:38
macronwget is there, the destination is the next step13:38
tyler_Hop onto the ati website and find a download link.13:39
tyler_macron: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx13:40
pupnikhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=meego_10_perf&num=1   meego performance vs ubuntu, moblin, fedora13:41
vgradeslaine, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUiSnITKeRY, meego on a tablet!13:41
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slainevgrade: sweet, thanks13:42
pupniksame device with OMAP please13:42
slainejoggler, lolk13:42
slainethats not a tablet13:42
pupnikas the intel13:42
vgradeslaine, it is if you chop the stand off :)13:43
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slaineand carry around a car battery13:43
vgrade:)13:43
tyler_vgrade: A netbook can become a tablet if you cop the keyboard off :)13:44
tyler_ /s/cop/chop13:44
vgradetyler, only if you have as ts13:45
tyler_I believe there are some produced actually.13:45
tyler_I would have to look it up, but I could be wrong.13:45
macrontyler_: The support site points to the Lenovo support site that only lists Windows for the T60/T60p.13:46
vgradetyler, any supported by meego 1.0?13:46
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tyler_vgrade: I was lightly joking.13:47
tyler_vgrade: I'm sure whatever was in that link was interesting and informative.13:47
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kakashi_is anybody using meego for n900?13:47
tyler_macron: Is that the name of the card or of your laptop (I know nothing about ATI card models)13:48
kaz2057nobody explain me doubts about repo?13:49
Tumi_kakashi_: I tried briefly the pre-release13:49
Tumi_not much fun without UI though :/13:49
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kakashi_hmm...13:49
tyler_macron: http://vizzzion.org/?id=t60 <--- Maybe relevant to your interests?13:50
kakashi_so what are the plans of porting meego to n90013:51
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Stskeepskakashi_: it's supposed to be the ARM reference device,so13:52
kakashi_hmm... well, actually I am new to meego, but would sure like to contribute on the porting issues (ofcourse I am joining the mailing lists)13:53
Stskeepskakashi_: if you want to contribute to N900 stuff, start out at wiki.meego.com/ARM/N90013:54
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vgradeWill the new ivi driver patch in here support GMA500 it looks to have poulsbo code? http://meego.gitorious.org/~xinyunliu/meego-os-base/xylius-kernel-source/trees/master13:57
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viszhow can you turn on backlight on n900 arm meego?13:58
kakashi_Stskeeps, is there a specific thread for the meego - n900 fork?13:59
kakashi_I mean the mailing list13:59
Stskeepskakashi_: no, meego-dev mailing list, our prefix is N90013:59
Stskeepsie, most of our mails start with N90013:59
Stskeepsvgrade: i kinda hope it will14:00
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Stskeepskakashi_: but the page should list our collaboration spaces, mailing list, gitorious, irc, etc14:01
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vgradestskeeps, I'll have a go later, have stalled a bit on the IEGD version, opengl text just comes up as blocks14:05
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kakashi_Stskeeps, awesome, got it14:06
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gaveenEngadget article now had a video too. http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/meego-moorestown-powered-tablet-hands-on/14:13
gaveen*has14:13
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* Stskeeps ponders idly14:15
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* thiago thinks he needs to order some of those for the office14:21
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thiagotmikola: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/meego-moorestown-powered-tablet-hands-on/14:21
thiagotmikola: how do we order those? :-)14:21
BThi, now I am able to run meego on beagleboard14:22
tyler_Has anyone had any success with installing codecs in MeeGo?14:22
thiagoBT: take a look at the wiki page on beagleboard14:22
BTnerworking is working also, want to install some package14:22
BTwhich tool is used to install package, is it zipper?14:23
tmikolathiago: Buy one and make a travel expense claim :)14:23
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thiagotmikola: the larger-voltage battery worked14:24
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VortiagoBT, yum is used14:30
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TurboVomithi meego users14:44
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TurboVomitmeego don't work with me14:45
TurboVomitbug in initramfs /init detected. Dropping to a shell . Good luck !14:45
BTnow xterm is running in beagleboard, want to install some package, any help I can get?14:46
TurboVomitbash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): inapropriate ioctl for device14:46
TurboVomitbash: no job control in this shell14:46
TurboVomit :(14:47
TurboVomitwhat is ioctl ?14:47
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VortiagoBT, yum install 'package'14:49
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BTi tried zypper in xfce-utils but some problem14:51
StskeepsBT: edit /etc/yum.repos.d to point to the arm repos instead14:52
TurboVomithey, there is an error on the mabsite14:52
Stskeeps(check the urls out)14:52
TurboVomitwebsite14:52
TurboVomitdownload the netbook version give you a chromonium netbook14:52
TurboVomitis it normal?14:52
BTjust tried yum command, says not found14:53
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TurboVomit2 hours to download meego img ...14:57
TurboVomitboring14:57
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TurboVomiti live in the past14:58
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hircushello -- some of us have been having problems connecting to 802.1X WiFi networks -- http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=2640 . Is there any known fix?15:02
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fralslove how the intel meego tablet is showing year as 1970 in the engadget pictures15:05
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Stskeepsi don't understand the problem of adding a rtc sometimes15:06
Stskeeps:P15:06
vgradeturbovomit, have you tried the mirror at kernel.org, I got 5.4MB/sec yesterday15:07
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suneelhi guys suneel herre15:09
suneeli have some doubts re garding the latest release of netboox ux of meego..15:09
suneelcan any body help me out15:09
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leinirMost likely not... You've not told us what they are, and i don't know that anybody here's a mind reader ;)15:10
Myrttinot before you cough up your real question15:10
suneel:)15:11
suneelfirefox browser (fennec) does it support webgl15:11
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Myrttithat's not a question15:12
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suneeli  studies some where ---Firefox(Fennec Browser supports  WebGL) in Maemo 5.15:13
sx0nsuneel, you can try wegl demos with that, i kind of see one working.15:13
sx0nbut that's hardly a #meego issue :)15:14
suneeli didnt get you..15:14
suneelcan you please explain clearly....sxon...?15:15
Myrttisuneel: you didn't explain yourself too clearly15:16
suneelmay be..15:16
suneelbut you can help me out15:17
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pupnikGoogle to ban windows PCs from corporation :)15:18
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sivangpupnik: heh15:27
sivangwhat a foundation.15:27
sivangwebgl is originating from moz, how appropriate :)15:28
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TSCHAKeee2tyler_: http://www.linuxmce.org/15:35
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TSCHAKeee2tyler_: look at that, sometime. We've been doing it.15:35
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jarkko^i added also info on installing vbox guest additions to wiki15:41
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tyler_TSCHAKeee2: Wait, what was that in response to?15:43
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sx0nhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVIKYF7MOzU16:01
sx0nanother meego video16:02
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BTlooks some help for meego on BB, zypper search is ok   | xfce-utils | package | 4.6.1-9.1 | armv7l | MeeGo Extra - ARM16:22
BTbut cant install16:22
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* CosmoHill dances cos he's just finished his university year16:25
Stskeepsso what are you contributing to meego over the summer?16:26
Stskeeps;)16:26
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GAN900Ooh, I have an answer for that one! A dose of realist rationality. ;)16:28
GAN900i.e., trolling :P16:28
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Termana:P16:29
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CosmoHillhttp://machall.com/view.php?date=2002-12-23 I'm just posted his on the assignment forum for c++ programming16:29
CosmoHillsince it seems to describe our assignment16:29
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TSCHAKeee2tyler_: you were saying about using tablets with a whole house media system16:31
TSCHAKeee2tyler_: been there, done that.16:31
TSCHAKeee2tyler_: :)16:32
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CosmoHillspeaking of tablets, I saw two guys comparing ipads16:34
CosmoHillno idea why, they're identical and you can't use them in the exam16:34
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GAN900Nokia is gonna need to step up for the end of the year16:37
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GAN900What with A4s in the iPhone 4G and the dual-core 1.2GHz Snapdragon coming.16:38
smokuTSCHAKeee2: wanna share some insight, or are you just bragging out? :>16:38
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tyler_TSCHAKeee2, Oh, I knew it was possible. I was just sayin' that a tablet would probably be a cheap/cool way to implement a control panel for it.16:42
Termanasmoku, I believe TSCHAKeee2 is the developer for a home media integration program16:42
TermanaDetails are sketchy for me at the moment since its late at night, but I'm sure he can fill in the blanks16:42
Termana:P16:42
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gourwhat is the name of the meego's kernel source package?16:47
Stskeepskernel16:47
Stskeeps:P16:47
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CosmoHillI don't think the source is separated from the binary16:48
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TSCHAKeee2tyler_: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=201350953130077280616:48
TSCHAKeee2tyler_: that is part 2, showing the tablet running, part 1, shows the physical tablet.. in this case, I used a DT Research WebDT 36616:48
lucazadehi! gma500 support??  http://meego.gitorious.org/~xinyunliu/meego-os-base/xylius-kernel-source/commits/master16:49
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TSCHAKeee2tyler_: but our orbiter software runs on TONS of stuff, including phones, Nokia 770/N800/810/900, Cisco 7970, any windows or linux PC, symbian and j2me phones, etc.16:49
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TSCHAKeee2tyler_: work is starting to replace orbiter with something much better, but for now, this is what is used.16:50
CosmoHillTSCHAKeee2: doesn't want to play for me :(16:50
TSCHAKeee2tyler_: but as i said, been there, done that. ;)16:50
TSCHAKeee2*blink* wha?16:50
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TSCHAKeee2that's videos.google.com16:50
CosmoHillnow it is16:50
gourStskeeps: hmm...somehow i do not find kernel sources... /usr/src/kernels is empty16:50
Stskeepsgour: ah, it's in the srpm i guess, and headers are in kernel-whatever-devel16:51
CosmoHillTSCHAKeee2: that you speeking?16:51
TSCHAKeee2CosmoHill: yes.16:51
CosmoHillooo16:51
gourStskeeps: i'm not famliar with yum (using archlinux)..how to install kernel src?16:52
Stskeepsgour: yumdownloader --source kernel, maybe16:52
gourlet me try..16:52
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CosmoHilldid you just turn our house lights off and one?16:53
CosmoHillon?>16:53
TSCHAKeee2CosmoHill: yes.16:53
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CosmoHill:o16:54
* CosmoHill watches meego explode on this laptop16:56
TermanaDo you guys live together? :P16:57
TermanaYou know so when I come to slay you I know I can get 2-in-116:57
CosmoHillI think i have an issue with my sd card16:57
Termana:D16:57
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vgradelukazade, just building it now for my joggler16:58
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CosmoHillD-bus got up to error 10000 by the time I got my laptop to hard shutdown17:00
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CosmoHillaaah17:02
CosmoHillit's a human17:02
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* thiago is a human17:03
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CosmoHillif anyone has a reason not to burn meego to a DVD, you're to late17:04
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gourok. i dl-ed kernel src rpm...how to install it now?17:06
arjanwhat do you want with it17:06
arjanif all you want is to change a few config options and build it again17:06
arjanrpm -i it17:06
arjango to ~/rpmbuild/17:06
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arjanin SOURCES you'll find the config files to edit17:07
arjanin SPECS you find kernel.spec17:07
arjanwhich you can buid with17:07
arjanrpmbuild -ba kernel.spec17:07
arjanand it'll pick up the things from SOURCES17:07
gourarjan: i need kernel sources available17:07
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arjanfor?17:07
arjandon't say "for building modules" please17:07
arjansince then you're on the wrong track :)17:07
Stskeepsif for building modules, grab kernel-something-devel?17:08
arjanyup17:08
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CosmoHillhey arjan and Stskeeps17:08
gourahh...i'm playing with vbox stuff17:08
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arjanif all you want is to build modules, use kernel-netbook-devel17:09
CosmoHillyum search kernel ?17:09
gourok17:09
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arjanthe kernel sources are actually utterly useless for doing that17:09
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vgradearjan, http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/xylius-kernel-source, PowerVR gfx driver17:11
arjan?17:12
Stskeepsvgrade: chances are it's 'just' IEGD stuff17:12
Stskeepsthey were supposed to use meego 1.0 as a PoR according to a public site17:12
vgradedoes not look like, building now17:12
arjancould also be the mrst driver17:12
arjannote that this is just the modesetting and memory manager17:13
arjannone of the actual graphics stuff is in there17:13
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vgradeno the its not the same patch as the moorsetown one17:13
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Stskeepsvgrade: it looks quite similar to a traditional SGX driver.17:14
vgradestskeeps, will report back after its built17:15
dnearyIs there some MeeGo IRC meeting on today?17:15
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Stskeepshmm, not sure17:16
StskeepsJune 1, 19:00 UTC: Community Office Meeting17:16
bergieah17:16
bergieagain quite late for here :-/17:17
CosmoHillagenda?17:17
gourrunning 'startx' from meego terminal brings up twm. what should bring meego ui up?17:18
CosmoHilltry "init 5"17:18
CosmoHillit might crash your computer tho :/17:18
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gourdon't worry about itz17:18
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Termanahttp://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings still shows 18th of May so obviously thats not the current agenda :P17:19
gourhuh...only (old) respawning too fast message :-/17:19
CosmoHillshame there isn't a way for me to record my laptop screen17:20
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lucazadevgrade: is a new driver for poulsbo?17:24
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CosmoHillarjan: what's the dev package17:30
CosmoHillfor gcc binutils, make etc?17:30
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odin_why is it "MEEGO-IL10N" ?  L10N = Localization  I18N = Internationalization17:31
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gouris anyone playing with running meego under vbox? i managed to build guestadditions but have some problem with running services17:44
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bogie11gour: what kind of problems?17:51
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CosmoHillgour: I just saw a vmware graphics driver17:54
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CosmoHillif meego is i586, why is glibc i686?17:55
thiagooptimisations17:56
thiagoand meego is supposed to be ia32-on-ssse317:56
odin_Hmmm no not really, just Intel's spin17:58
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thiago_supposed_ to be17:58
odin_I just hope it is compatible with desktop ia32 linux, otherwise there might be a rift17:59
CosmoHillwhere is xorg.conf?17:59
odin_often /etc/X11/18:00
thiagoCosmoHill: X doesn't need a config file18:00
thiagoit can work without one18:00
CosmoHillhmm18:00
CosmoHillso how to I load the nvidia model?18:00
CosmoHillmodule*18:00
thiagocreate the xorg.conf file18:00
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CosmoHillhey DawnFoster18:01
CosmoHillturned out it was my SD card that was causing meego to fail to boot18:02
DawnFosterHey CosmoHill18:02
DawnFosteraha18:02
CosmoHillburnt it to DVD and it worked18:02
CosmoHillwell I say worked.....as good as you can get for a non-supported device18:02
Stskeepsmorn DawnFoster - any agenda on for CO meeting tonight?18:02
DawnFosterStskeeps - We're going to cancel it18:02
Stskeepsmakes sense18:03
DawnFosterthere wasn't anything proposed for the agenda18:03
Stskeepsno agenda - no reason for meeting :)18:03
DawnFosterand those of us in the us are still recovering from a 3 day holiday weekend :)18:03
DawnFosterexactly!18:03
Stskeepshehe18:03
odin_all too busy, playing with MeeGo v1.0 :)18:03
GAN900"Recovering", eh?18:03
DawnFosterstskeeps: btw, any chance I can get you to run those IRC stats for May (or send me a link if you already ran it) :)18:03
TermanaYou know, I don't think jet lag applies to 3 day weekends :P18:04
StskeepsDawnFoster: yes, but tomorrow morning - whats the deadline?18:04
DawnFosterGAN900: I'm afraid to tackle my email :)18:04
StskeepsDawnFoster: meego slate ui seems to be well received by media, at least18:04
GAN900Retail makes for sucky 3-day weekends.18:04
DawnFosterStskeeps: I'm still gathing other data, so sometime tomorrow if you have time?18:04
Stskeeps(pre alpha)18:04
StskeepsDawnFoster: yep18:05
* Stskeeps goes write a postit for his screen18:05
DawnFosterthanks18:06
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gourCosmoHill: but that won't help me with vbox, right?18:06
CosmoHillprobably not18:06
CosmoHillI'm trying to get twm under nvidia18:06
CosmoHillI've killed my keyboard and mouse :(18:07
gouri can use twm under vbox, but meego is not meant for such UI :-D18:07
CosmoHillwell I figure if I can get twm under nvidia and can get the ui under it18:08
gourhow would one call meego ui from within twm?18:08
CosmoHillnot got that far18:08
gouri'm not sure which command to invoke? init5 in the terminal just spits 'respawning too fast' error18:09
* CosmoHill looks at his beige 18:09
CosmoHillI swear it was white when i put it again..18:09
sx0n|homegour: you could start x with xinit and start other wm iirc18:10
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goursx0n|home: yeah, but what should start 'meego ui' ?18:11
goursx0n|home: btw, the error is mission 'daemon' command in vbox services...i've to go out. bbs to resume my attempts18:11
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sx0n|homegour: dunno. there should be some sort of binary, maybe configured in etc/X11 somewhere. maybe you need some extra packages installed using yum18:13
sx0n|homei have not yet tested.18:13
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sx0n|homeor build meegotouch from gitorious18:13
odin_ls18:13
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sx0n|homedd18:13
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arjangour: uxlaunch is what starts teh GUI session18:14
odin_opps have not got used to the Linux dual head :(18:14
CosmoHillhmm, I ran Xorg --config and X -config xorg.conf.new and it just dumped the frame buffer onto the screen and then hunh18:14
FunkyPenguinis the MeeGo obs publicly accessible yet?18:14
arjanCosmoHill: on meego we don't use a xorg.conf ;)18:14
sx0n|homegotta go, i've got ac/dc tickets for todays concert. ;)18:14
CosmoHillthat's why I made one18:14
CosmoHillI need to tell it to load the nvidia driver somehow18:15
odin_CosmoHill, are you trying to get MeeGo working on "non-standard hardware" ?18:15
CosmoHillyes18:15
odin_ah well then, you are doing the right thing, keep playing at it :)18:15
sx0n|homeCosmoHill i saw message that it(X) automatically tried to load nv18:16
Vortiagogour, the 'missing daemon command' thing can be fixed by editing the vbox startup-scripts (You have to add . /etc/init.d/functions so that it can locate the daemon function from there)18:16
CosmoHilli think i get that if I run "startx"18:16
CosmoHillI have the nvidia driver and any rpm's I use on my memory stick18:16
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odin_FunkyPenguin, I don't belive so, still waiting on h/w to be ready is the last I hear last week, there is a Wiki page somewhere with status18:17
StskeepsDawnFoster: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats.may.html18:17
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DawnFosterstskeeps: sweet, that was fast, thanks!18:18
FunkyPenguinodin_, ok thanks18:18
CosmoHillhmm I see. $HOME/.Xclients first, then /etc/X11/xinit/Xclients followed by the fallback of twm, xterm etc18:18
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StskeepsDawnFoster: postit blocked my view and i had 5 minutes free time ;)18:19
* odin_ hopes that the user with the longest IRC line lengths is not being recorded18:19
Stskeepsodin_: you'd win, for sure18:19
odin_ah we can see to talks the most, hehe18:19
odin_it DOES letters/line ha ha!18:20
CosmoHillif I'm right i've seen a mistake18:20
CosmoHillif (something) {do something}18:20
TermanaStskeeps, that was a great "prediction" ;)18:20
CosmoHillelse if (same thing) {do the same thing}18:20
CosmoHill/etc/X11/xinit/Xclients line 6118:21
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Stskeepsodin_: average 89 chars per mine, record ;p18:21
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TermanaStskeeps, lol your nickname is the 7th most used word18:22
TermanaMr. Popular :P18:22
Stskeepsor i chat too much and work too little18:22
Stskeeps:P18:22
odin_does the colour denote the time of day on the most....18:23
Tm_TStskeeps: glad you said it yourself (;18:23
w00t_i'm highly impressed i'm still at #1718:23
* Tm_T hides18:23
VortiagoGo make a patch CosmoHill :P But yea, the last part there isn't realy needed18:23
w00t_(then again, i need to talk more so I overtake GAN900)18:23
w00t_also, Stskeeps, I love my quote..18:24
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odin_shouldn't it be "Stskeeps!" everyone start using an exclamation mark after that word now :)18:25
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StskeepsDawnFoster: and a new stats, for meego-arm: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats.arm.may.html18:28
* odin_ hides18:28
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Stskeeps(which might be interesting as it's from when we start open development)18:29
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GAN900w00t_, sucker.18:30
DawnFosterthanks18:30
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CosmoHillbollocks >.<18:35
CosmoHillI copy the built-in xorg config and it hangs18:36
gourarjan: uxlaunch does not produce any effect...18:36
gourVortiago: thanks. let me try it18:36
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GAN900w00t_, isn't it depressing you're behind my N900 nick? :P18:39
w00t_not really18:39
GAN900Not sure who for, though. *g*18:39
w00t_i have more productive things to do than whinge a lot on IRC *evilgrin*18:39
GAN900Yeah, sure, so YOU claim.18:42
w00t_truth!18:42
sivangStskeeps: for someone who's witnessing for himself his talking of his ass most of the time, that doesn't look so good :)18:42
w00t_although admittedly today has been mostly a masochistic day18:42
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cor_rIs meego also installable on a laptop?18:43
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CosmoHillcat /dev/input/mouce is fun :)18:44
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CosmoHillyou do have to type "reset" afterwards18:44
sivangStskeeps: although if you apply for Pet Detective sequal, then that's applicative.18:44
* sivang finished his comic corner today18:45
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cor_r??18:48
Tm_Tcor_r: is18:48
odin_cor_r, yea and no, the current images targets newer Atom based laptops, which CPU do you have ?18:49
cor_rinte core duo 660018:49
odin_cor_r, but there is no reason why MeeGo for Intel can't in future support older kit (as per the Linux way), its just doing to take some more time for people to work on that18:49
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cor_rodin_, ok thank you for ur answer :)18:50
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Stskeepsodin_: primary argument is that most apps will be built towards the atom baseline.18:53
odin_its a "Core 2 Duo", do might do, but my hunch is not, I can't see explicitly  SSSE3 in the data sheet (I can see it doesn't have ANI which is pretty new)18:53
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cor_rok thank you guys, I will just have a try and hope that i t will work :)18:54
odin_well if the users are happy that is great, but the linux way is to support older h/w and there is no reason MeeGo can not18:54
pupniki still have systems without NX bit18:54
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odin_it should at least during bootup indicate to the user, "Kernel bootup aborted, SSSE3 support not found", when booting the pre-made images18:55
Stskeepsagreed18:55
CosmoHillhttp://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_4022.html18:55
CosmoHillhmm18:56
Stskeepsi think there used to be18:56
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odin_but I'm guessing they have broken the ABI, due to the fact people without the support can even run a binary, unless its just a simple case that no callback i386 versions of libraries have not been provided (space optimization of pre-made images)18:59
odin_maybe they should have /lib/ld-linux-meego-ssse3-madeup.so are their DL, then they can do what they want19:00
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CosmoHillmeego is xorg 1.8 correct?19:03
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csdHi I'm looking at the n900 kickstart and it points to this URL http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/arm/os which doesn't exist - anyone know the right URL?19:08
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odin_http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/  ???19:10
csdthe kickstart on that URL seems to be live. I'll take a look on that one. thanks19:11
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dnearyIs the MeeGo community software meeting in 1h?19:16
CosmoHilldneary: nope, it's been cancelled19:16
odin_it may have been cancelled due to no agenda, please check Wiki page19:16
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dnearyReally? That's like 5 meetings in a month cancelled or without critical mass of people to work on them19:17
dnearyIt's getting beyond ridiculous19:17
odin_Hmm do you have an issue to raise tho ?19:17
dnearyodin_, Not particularly - beyond being informed what's going on19:18
odin_since I don't think it made the agenda deadline, raise an item for 2 weeks time then, "What is going on?"  lol19:18
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GAN900Yo, dneary.19:18
CosmoHillarjan can I make a feature requestion for meego 1.1?19:19
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gouri can build vbox guestadditions, but attempt to run uxlaunch is killed and dmesg shows vboxclient segfaults in libx11 :-/19:19
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odin_are you asking for help debugging ?   are you asking if its a known issue ?   are you expecting us to debug it over IRC ?19:21
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gouri'm asking it it should be possible to run meego under vbox19:23
dnearyhi GAN90019:23
gourforum posts are not very encouraging19:24
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gourodin_: of course any help is welcome19:24
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GAN900dneary, good vacation?19:25
dnearyNot a vacation, a move19:26
odin_gour, ok, just wasn't clear how someone might help, vbox is x86 emulator ?  sorry I am MeeGo ARM user19:26
dnearyAnd unfortunately internet outage lasted longer than I expected19:26
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dnearyBut all sorted now19:26
dnearyStill catching up though :(19:26
gourodin_: yes...it was possible to try moblin with it, but no luck with meego :-/19:26
dnearyI just saw why I didn't get notified of the meeting cancellation, it was on the forums19:26
dnearyOh, no, it wasn't19:27
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dnearyIt wasn't anywhere19:27
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dnearyodin_, Are we talking about the same meeting?19:29
odin_now maybe a good time to trot out "meego-meeting@group.calendar.google.com"  but it is not very good at cancelling meetings19:29
dnearyCommunity office meeting is marked as cancelled in http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule19:29
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Termanadneary, the meeting was only just cancelled a little while ago19:29
odin_the MeeGo CWG Meeting, the 1st (7pm) and 3rd Tues (2pm) of every month?19:29
dnearybut there should still be a community software meeting with tero, lbt, et al19:29
dnearyTermana, Which one?19:29
TermanaCommunity office/working group one19:30
dnearyodin_, I'm talking about this one: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=22419:30
dnearyWhich is.... tomorrow!!!19:30
dneary:)19:30
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odin_http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Working_Group_Meeting  this is the one due today (but cancelled, says 15 June 2pm now)19:33
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DawnFosterwe cancelled the bi-weekly community office meeting, which was scheduled today.19:34
Termanaodin_, I think we've established dneary is talking about a different meeting than the CWG meeting :) He is talking about the on in his link (the Meow meeting)19:34
DawnFosterthe community applications meeting is still tomorrow19:34
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GAN900dneary, ah, right, confusing you and Jaffa19:34
TermanaFor those that don't get the joke - Meow, CAT, Community Applications Team :p19:35
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dnearyI thought we got rid of all the Community_Working_Group links in the wiki19:35
dnearyShouldn't that be Community Office/Meeting?19:35
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dnearyDawnFoster, Just wondering - why is "To karma or not to karma?" still up as an agenda item in Community Office/Meetings?19:36
TermanaWhy was the named even changed from Community Work Group to Community Office?19:36
Termananame*19:36
dnearyDawnFoster, I have moved on, consider the question closed19:36
DawnFosterdneary: I haven't had time to update that page19:36
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dnearyDawnFoster, Ah, OK19:36
DawnFosterit's still showing info from the last meeting.19:36
dnearyI updated the CO page19:36
dnearythe meeting date was changed in the page, though - so someone's updating it19:36
DawnFostertermana: to avoid confusion. We're using "working groups" to refer to platforms (netbook, handset, etc.)19:37
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CosmoHillhehe "working"19:37
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DawnFostermore details about working groups / governance here: http://meego.com/about/governance19:38
sivangahh nice to be here from the bus on n90019:39
GAN900Termana, it was?19:39
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TermanaGAN900, the fact you have to ask that after DawnFoster has just even provided an explanation about the name being changed makes me want to facepalm :P19:40
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sivangDawnFoster: so qa is not gonna need a working group for the meanwhile ?19:42
DawnFostersivang: there is a QA group in the project structure. We don't need a separate working group, since people can just participate in the project19:43
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GAN900Termana, sorry, at work.19:43
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CosmoHillsod it19:44
CosmoHillno nvidia for you19:44
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TermanaGAN900, hehe no problem :P19:44
GAN900DawnFoster, the whole arrangement is super confusing.19:44
DawnFosterhttp://meego.com/sites/all/files/MeeGoDevStructureTSG_May5.pdf19:44
sivangDawnFoster: where can i read or join this group ?19:44
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GAN900DawnFoster, a nice organization overview explanation page would work wonders.19:44
DawnFosterthe TSG is still in the process of defining the details behind the structure and adding names to it.19:44
odin_meck-it-uup-az-yer-goer-along19:45
DawnFosteras soon as they have more details behind the structure, it will get easier to participate, since we have names of people to contact to volunteer help19:45
GAN900DawnFoster, how about something not-PDF?19:45
odin_hmm maybe a Yorkshire accent doesn't translate that well on IRC19:45
DawnFosterGAN900: as soon as we have more details, we'll get something better posted19:45
DawnFosterI can't post what hasn't been defined :)19:46
sivangDawnFoster: so that i closed stuff so far ?19:46
odin_but people are ready to QA it (the stuff that is not defined :)19:46
DawnFostersivang: I don't understand your question.19:47
DawnFosterPeople can do QA right now and submit bugs to bugzilla19:47
odin_sorry I was being flippant with their eagerness19:48
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sivangDawnFoster: that is alwys true so what will the qa group do ?19:48
sivangDawnFoster: i mean cater for govenece ?19:49
sivangerr19:49
sivangDawnFoster: i will follow on the pdf19:49
DawnFostersivang: My point is that once we get the project structure defined with names, you can talk to the people responsible for QA and coordinate efforts under the project - we don't need a separate working group for things that can be done in the project.19:50
DawnFosterThe TSG is working hard to define the structure right now.19:50
sivangit is hard to irssi from the tablet :-)19:51
sivangDawnFoster: that is an open process the definitions ?19:52
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sivangDawnFoster: be back later19:53
DawnFostersivang: I recommend reading through the logs / minutes from the past few TSG meetings. The project structure falls under TGS19:53
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gourafter seeing so many posts in different (non meego) forums about attempt to run MeeGO UI under vbox, i think it would be nice if someone can add some FAQ to the wiki to save people's time, either saying "It's not possible!" or explaining how to do it...19:55
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gourmany are coming with the moblin experience and the present situation is, imho, quite bad PR for meego19:56
arjanI'm surprised moblin ran under vbox19:56
arjanwe never got that working ourselves19:56
mindfaqit never worked for me, too19:57
arjanand I don't see anything we changed to break that either19:57
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mindfaqubuntu's moblin remix may have worked though19:58
gourusing moblin under vbox was quite straightforward19:58
gourno magic, except booting as 'init 3' and manually launching startx19:59
* gour was using moblin 2.119:59
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DawnFostergour: I'm working on a FAQ20:01
DawnFosterhttp://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_FAQ20:01
DawnFosterit still needs a ton of work20:01
gourDawnFoster: thanks a lot...it will be very much appreciated20:01
DawnFosterI'm waiting to post it until I get the answers in better shape20:01
DawnFosterpeople are free to contribute to it :)20:01
* pupnik looks 20:02
arjangour: I'm surprised startx worked20:02
arjanwe've never used that20:02
arjanwe only use the uxlaunch-from-init method20:02
gourarjan: it was widely posted20:02
arjan(either moblin or meego)20:02
arjanI'm also baffled as to why rl5 wouldn't work, and this would work20:03
arjanother than this being run as root I suppose20:03
arjanwhile the X server by default is not setuid-root20:03
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gourarjan: this is 2nd google hit 'running moblin virtualbox' - http://blog.bobpeers.com/2009/05/04/running-moblin-in-virtualbox/20:04
mindfaqwhich is pretty nice that way20:04
arjanI suspect that on vbox, you need your X running as root20:05
arjanso a chmod +s /usr/bin/Xorg might be a hard requirement20:05
gour...and that's why meego-1.0 is bitter experience20:05
gourarjan: i can boot meego as init 3 and log as root...i also built guestadditions (opengl stuff etc.), but no further luck20:06
gourthe last message in the forum thread says: "I suspect the Moblin graphic drivers are incompatible with the OpenGL kernel module that is built by the Guest Additions" can any meego dev confirm it?20:07
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GAN900DawnFoster, hopefully that's RSN.20:09
DawnFosterRSN?20:09
GAN900DawnFoster, lot of enthusiasm floating right out the window because of that lack right now.20:09
GAN900Real Soon Now20:10
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DawnFosterGAN900: I don't have a lot of control over how soon it gets done. I can say that I have been a complete pain & have been pushing hard to get this done soon.20:11
DawnFosterI know that we needed this months ago & the TSG does too.20:11
DawnFosterit just takes time unfortunately20:11
GAN900OK then20:11
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arjangour: I don't think we have anything incompatible20:22
arjanwe use a pretty much unpatches X 1.8 and Mesa20:22
CosmoHillThe lastest nvidia drivers don't support X 1.8 :(20:23
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arjanX 1.8 got released like in March or before that20:23
arjanthey're .. late if they don't support that20:23
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gourarjan: well, the fact is that i still did not find a post how to do it20:25
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gourarjan: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=2702 thread is quite long wiht proper answers...20:26
gourif for some devs it is known fact that meego & vbox are 'no go', it would be nice to have it posted somewhere20:27
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mindfaqCosmoHill: nvidia does support x-server 1.820:29
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CosmoHillreally?20:29
mindfaqyep20:29
CosmoHillwhat about nvidia-xorg-config?20:29
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mindfaqwhat do you mean?20:30
* gour is going to stop wasting time trying to run meego under vbox20:30
mindfaqsupport for 1.8 x-server is offical since 195.36.2420:30
mindfaqit did work before though by adding "ignoreABI" to xorg.conf20:31
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* mindfaq hopes that nouveau can keep its high speed of progress20:36
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* CosmoHill hopes someone can get nvidia support on meego20:44
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mindfaqwith nouveau enhancing its 3d support that's very likely to happen20:45
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* gour would be happy with vbox support in order to be able to use meego under VM for development and real machine for usage21:01
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odin_gour, ah a thought... what CPUs can Vbox emulate... does it emulate the SSSE3 features ?21:30
gourodin_: if moblin was working...21:30
odin_gour, this is a new CPUID bit for a feature set found in only the newest CPUs21:31
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gourodin_: check last post in http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=270221:32
odin_unfortunately I do not know the history of Moblin, to know, but just because Moblin worked (and my have targetted i386) doesn't mean the current MeeGo Intel spin works on the same hardware, I can only advise you complain to your vendor if they have hung you out to dry support wise21:32
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arjan"newest"... ssse3 cpus were shipping in mid 2006 already21:33
arjanlike 4 years ago21:33
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arjanmoblin targeted the same set of cpus (core2/atom) btw21:33
* gour has i721:33
arjani7 is VROOOOOM :)21:34
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CosmoHillI read that as 1721:34
arjanmeego on my i7 is *fast*21:34
* gour has ati21:34
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mindfaqthere isn't any way to run meego on LGA1366 based i7 cpus, right?21:35
gourno meego under vbox is shame...people are speaking about geemo :-(21:35
odin_does core2 have it ? I did not think it did, I have i7(2.8)+ati too, got it a few weeks ago21:35
arjancore2 and all later cpus from intel have ssse321:35
CosmoHillyou can run it on a core 2 but only if you have intel graphics21:35
arjanmindfaq: if you have workig/supported graphics .. works fine ;)21:36
mindfaqthere is no way to get intel graphics with LGA1366 ;)21:36
arjanmy i7 has a lame matrox card that is slower in 3D than software rendering21:36
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arjanbut then I mostly use it in runlevel 3 for building stuff21:36
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odin_I am looking at my servers, HP DL360/380G5, less than 2 years old, they dont have ssse3 aka TNI/MNI, but have 64bit+ (but they do have sse3 aka PNI)21:37
arjanodin_: what cpu is in them?21:37
thiago_homearjan: what *isn't* fast on i7?21:37
CosmoHillthiago_home: vista?21:37
odin_E5440/E550521:37
mindfaqaes21:37
odin_opps E5440/E5405, AES (aka ANI)  is new as well21:38
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odin_dont confuse SSE3 (PNI) with SSSE3 (TNI/MNI), yes sure Core2 and cpus newer than 2006 or so, had SSE3 but not SSSE321:39
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arjancore2 has ssse321:40
mindfaqPNI was available in 2006 athlon 6421:40
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arjanplease don't spread that misinformation21:40
mindfaqso core 2 will have it21:40
arjanin fact we use -march=core2 as compiler flag ;)21:40
arjanbasically we anchored on the core2 instruction set21:40
odin_well yes, you'd expect to be able to use -march=core2 as a compiler flag on a core2 !21:40
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arjanand atom instruction set is the core2 one (plus to instructions we don't use anyway)21:41
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odin_what is your chip ID ?  I looked up a Core2 earlier and could not find info on SSSE3 (it did not have AES the one I looked at)21:41
arjanAES is a different beast21:41
arjanAES in SSE 4.221:41
arjannot ssse321:41
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mindfaqthe new aes instructions are only available in recent 32 nm cpus21:42
* CosmoHill hides his P4 in shame21:42
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CosmoHillI don't even have HT21:43
* mindfaq hopes that next-gen atom will incorporate AES NI21:44
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CosmoHillAES is encryption related right?21:45
mindfaqyes21:45
CosmoHillcool :)21:45
odin_which of the instructions are really useful for general purpose code ?  I am looking at SSE4 and SSSE3 and most are specialized (i.e. not worth breaking an ABI for, if that is indeed what has happened)21:45
ShadowJKI thought AES instructions were going away?21:45
CosmoHilli wish my server has AES, SFTP puts a huge load on it21:45
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thiago_homemovbe21:45
thiago_homearjan: using -mtune=atom too?21:46
thiago_homeodin_: SSE4 string functions would be useful21:46
mindfaqever wanted to have a via nano netbook because of their crypto abilities21:46
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mindfaqbut their graphics drivers...21:46
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odin_has 'dd' started reporting summary in GB instead of GiB, the counts always seem too high21:52
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daniel_122:05
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CosmoHill022:05
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CosmoHilldaniel_: no idea why but you've inspired me to make a text to binary converter22:13
daniel_@CosmoHill Should I feel 01100100?22:14
CosmoHillmaybe22:14
CosmoHilllet me finish my program and I'll tell you22:14
daniel_do you know if meego has a virtual keyboard?  Didn't find one when I tried it out...22:15
TSCHAKeee2daniel_: the mobile UX does not have a virtual keyboard22:15
daniel_K, Thanks22:16
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CosmoHillgot it :)22:30
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gourwhat do you say about this one - http://techrights.org/2010/05/28/meego-dot-net/ ?22:45
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arjanhyperbole22:48
arjanmono is not part of meego architecturally22:49
Stskeepsgour: anytime anyone touches mono topic, people appear and try to make people hate mono, it's sometimes like those people showing up with banners at funerals of soliders :P22:49
arjanit's just pulled in as a dependency for the netbook media player22:49
arjanbig fscking yawn.22:49
gourthis http://techrights.org/2010/05/29/shotwell-in-fedora/ is also interesting22:49
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gourarjan: quite some stuff in meego are using mono  - http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2010/May-27.html22:50
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gourStskeeps: i do not hate mono, but avoid putting it on my desktop since it pulls too many deps22:51
Stskeepsand it's reference apps, people/vendors are free to remove them22:51
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Stskeepsgour: http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page scares me a bit (i'm not pro or against mono) :P22:52
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gourStskeeps: huh22:53
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Stskeepsgour: referring to the main site of the urls refer to22:53
sivangDawnFoster: not currently in liberty to go over meeting minutes , but will try to do so during the upcoming weekend.22:53
arjangour: eh no. Only the media player is using mono.22:54
sivangarjan: the meego media player?22:54
arjanthe banshee player in the netbook build22:54
arjan(there'll be different media players for other devices)22:54
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sivangDawnFoster: liberty == time22:55
Stskeepsthe good thing about things like meego is that if you don't like the smell of the bakery, you can write something better :P most often people don't go ahead with that 'threat' though :)22:55
arjanyou can assume that new media players for other devices will be based on the meego touch framework btw22:55
arjan(which is a layer on top of Qt to add touch awareness etc)22:56
sivangarjan: and not mono as runtime, is the runtime performant enough on devices like N900 ?22:56
Stskeepsnot sure mono belongs on a n900 like device22:56
arjansivang: I doubt that mono will be deployed on a phone22:56
ShadowJKcodecs don't run inside the vm anyway22:56
arjanwe're pulling it in the the netbook media player only22:56
arjannot as a core building block22:56
sivangarjan: ah k, makes sense.22:56
TSCHAKeee2leave it to the reactionary idiots to shout off their mouths22:56
sivang(hence my question)22:56
TSCHAKeee2whee.22:56
suihkulokkithere was a mono port for n8x0 and run just fine (like python et all)22:57
TSCHAKeee2*shake-head*22:57
sivangsuihkulokki: ah , nice.22:57
ShadowJKand a half-arsedly written player in mono is probably lighter than N900's thing anyway :)22:57
Stskeepswhatever happened to doing things to change the world instead of moaning about the state of the world and doing nothing? :P22:57
arjanyou can make a big deal out of nothing easily on the internet22:57
arjandoesn't mean it's fact based22:57
Khertanhum ... it s seems i ve lost x22:57
sivangwho is doing big deal out of what? another vm, another language, that's all22:58
TSCHAKeee2Stskeeps: that went away when the users started outnumbering developers in the free software community...22:58
sivangthe more choice the better (sometimes!)22:58
TSCHAKeee2i do think mono is very shady...but if microsoft pulls the patent card22:58
TSCHAKeee2big deal, it's replaced22:58
TSCHAKeee2boo $()#@$#@ hoo22:58
Quumicrosoft deals hitler -card.22:58
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Stskeepsi still wonder about liability in terms of what goes into meego, or what's published from meego servers22:59
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microlithStskeeps: nothing probably, MS will go after those who ship it23:02
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sivangShadowJK: I guess so, a lot of stuff in N900 are so heavy.23:04
ShadowJKmost (all?) python players even respond quicker... :)23:05
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Khertan_MiGoI see that the garage is available in Meego ... and a few application in it ... Does this garage is "open" to third developpers ?23:06
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mindfaqi wonder if there will be a possibility to run the latest meego development state and get it updated through package management23:08
DawnFosterKhertan_MiGo: we're still working out the process to submit apps to the garage, but it will be open to any developers23:09
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mindfaqsimilar like fedora's doing with rawhide23:09
mindfaqand debian with sid/unstable23:09
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microlithmindfaq: I don't see why not.23:10
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Khertan_MiGoDawnFoster: ok ... the question was more a is it available yet ? so i got my answer thx23:11
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DawnFosterKhertan_MiGo: You might be interested in this meeting tomorrow where they will be talking more about this process. http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Application_Support23:15
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Khertan_MiGoDawnFoster: thx23:17
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q9c9phello23:36
q9c9pdid anybody tryied to install meego on eeepc 701?23:36
q9c9pbecuse I cannot :/ 3G of disk are not enough it seems...23:37
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arjanq9c9p: it also does not have an atom cpu so it's not going to work23:52
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q9c9parjan: ah, thanks, I missed that, anyway is booting live23:53
q9c9pand the atheros from the 701 model is working23:53
q9c9ponly chromium is not working23:53
q9c9pand the battery23:53
q9c9panyway, thanks, then I will look for something else to put on the eee 70123:53
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