IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2010-06-01

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Stskeeps	GeorgiusCz: --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags=no-omap-wd,no-ext-wd , add that	00:00
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rolsworth	i just tried this OS on my Eeepc yesterday	00:25
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rolsworth	is it a beta? for a linux distro it does not seem to have anything	00:26
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rolsworth	no office software	00:26
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w00t_	early days for one, yes	00:28
rolsworth	but where are the software	00:28
rolsworth	not compatible ?	00:28
w00t_	go get packaging, and it'll be there	00:28
rolsworth	what?	00:29
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w00t_	point being, that it's early days, so everything under the sun isn't going to be available out of the box yet	00:30
w00t_	if you want it, you're probably going to have to make it work, or wait for someone else to do so	00:30
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renato	hi all, I need to mount my extenal drive "ext4" in my meego netbook. What is the best solution for this? recompile the kernel? Or there is the ext4 module compiled in some place?	01:04
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CosmoHill	isn't ext4 backward compatable with ext3 and 2?	01:18
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renato	CosmoHill, I think no because I tried mount with -t ext3 and ext2 and does not work	01:38
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* CosmoHill does a bit more revision for tomorrow's exam		02:19
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CosmoHill	night night	02:56
CosmoHill	wish me luck in my exam :o	02:56
TSCHAKeee2	good luck	02:57
TSCHAKeee2	:)	02:57
janneg	ext4 with extents is not backwards compatible	02:57
CosmoHill	I feel much more confident now after all my revision :)	02:57
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TSCHAKeee2	janneg: were you the one who wrote the hdpvr driver?	02:58
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janneg	TSCHAKeee2: yes	03:11
* TSCHAKeee2 hugs janneg		03:12
TSCHAKeee2	janneg: thanks, man.	03:12
TSCHAKeee2	janneg: it took us a while, but finally got it folded into LinuxMCE, plug and play.. but it works very well.	03:12
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janneg	your welcome. and feel kind of bad since the driver could be better. (un)fortunately I don't use it day to day since I have working digital capture devices	03:17
janneg	I feel	03:17
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csd	Hi I'm looking at the n900 kickstart and it points to this URL http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/arm/os which doesn't exist - anyone know the right URL?	04:10
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rolsworth	the update feature on this os does not work	05:56
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rainID	anybody here?	06:49
Guest21074	rainID: Sort of.	06:51
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Purpdank	do you guys think meego will beat android ?	07:55
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arjan	that question depends on how you see "beat"	07:56
arjan	;)	07:56
arjan	marketshare... we're a bit behind in terms of time	07:56
arjan	in terms of features/coolness ? we'll try ;)	07:57
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tyler_	As of this moment, the two operating systems are designed for different purposes.	07:57
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tyler_	MeeGo goes on netbooks, Android goes on phones.	07:57
Purpdank	i mean beat as in popularity and revenues	07:57
tyler_	Unless I'm missing something...	07:57
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Purpdank	but meego is planning on coming to mobile devices as well i thoguht	07:58
Purpdank	and android is coming to tablets and netbooks no ?	07:58
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Stskeeps	yeah, but is android really a netbook OS? :P	07:59
Stskeeps	it's more like a phone os moved to places it doesn't belong	07:59
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petteri	Purpdank: of course meego will beat android :)	07:59
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Purpdank	well i was thinking more about mobile devices, since meego is going to mobile devices, do you think it will be able to compete with the android os on mobile devices	07:59
tyler_	It's probably too early to tell.	08:00
Purpdank	true	08:00
tyler_	Android has a huge market share.	08:00
Purpdank	whats so special about meego though ? like sell me, why should i buy a meego phone over an android phone	08:00
tyler_	And it's already starting to be sold by different OEMs already.	08:01
tyler_	I like where MeeGo is headed though. It's UI layout is pretty well thought out.	08:01
tyler_	It's just that, functionality wise, It's just not usable.	08:02
Stskeeps	Purpdank: it's a real computer in your pocket, not just a smartphone :)	08:02
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Stskeeps	Purpdank: there's no such thing as a meego phone yet, so hard to argue	08:02
Purpdank	true	08:02
Purpdank	i think it will fail, i'd marry android if i could	08:03
Stskeeps	why are we arguing then? you're a troll? :P	08:03
Purpdank	:(	08:03
Purpdank	no im not	08:03
spide	you shouldn't just look at the sw. every phone is a individual. hw and sw combined.	08:03
Purpdank	of course spide	08:03
Termana	good morning Stskeeps	08:03
tyler_	I didn't know it was an argument, I thought it was a debate.	08:03
Purpdank	i didnt know it was a argument or debate, i was just curious :(	08:04
Stskeeps	Purpdank: best thing to do is try out both phone OS'es when they're productized. i like meego cos it's real open source, not just available to OEMs ahead of time	08:04
spide	and currently n900 is closest thing to a phone that I want.	08:04
Stskeeps	for a consumer, meego will be the one empowering you, not taking away your abilities to do what you want with your device	08:04
Purpdank	Stskeeps, you sound like some bs salesmen lol	08:05
Stskeeps	as well as one qt api over several devices	08:05
tyler_	How does Android take away your abilities to do what you want with your device?	08:05
Stskeeps	Purpdank: nah, i just didn't have my coffee yet or meds ;p	08:05
spide	I can't describe how cool it was when I was visiting a friend who had lost his tv remote and was stuck at 4:3 ar.	08:05
Termana	tyler_, no root access on most Android phones for starters	08:05
tyler_	I don't see how the company or how the software is restrictive in any way?	08:05
tyler_	Yeah, but you can enable it.	08:05
spide	i took out my trusty n900, downloaded the remote to irreco and fixed the situation :)	08:05
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Purpdank	what does the average consumer need root access for anyways ? you can enable root on android devices though	08:06
Termana	tyler_, no you cannot just enable it on most Android phones	08:06
tyler_	The point is, you can download the Android source and make your own. The carriers rolling out Android phones are the ones who disable root access.	08:06
tyler_	Sorry, I'll rephrase. You can install a custom version of Android that has root enabled.	08:06
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Purpdank	i thought you could tyler_ , people make their own versions of the android os all the time and release them	08:07
Purpdank	am i wrong?	08:07
Termana	Exploits have been made available for the most popular Android phones that will allow you to have root access and ROM replacement abilities. Most of them this is not true for	08:07
Stskeeps	and how did that work out of cyanogen? ;)	08:07
Stskeeps	for	08:07
Stskeeps	either way, this bends down to a simple thing, if you're a consumer looking at meego, go look at actual implementations of it	08:07
tyler_	Yeah, and it's the carriers and manufacturers that do that. Not the android devolopers.	08:07
Stskeeps	if you're a systems manufactorer, you look at meego system	08:08
Purpdank	brb	08:08
tyler_	Yeah, this isn't some philosophical open source vs. closed source issue. Whether or not MeeGo offers more functionality then Android is what's going to matter.	08:08
tyler_	IMHO of course.	08:08
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gour	morning	09:09
gour	is claws available for meego?	09:09
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BT	hi, need some help to run meego on beagleboard	09:40
BT	all the files for rootfs are inside a dir meego-rootfs, why its so?	09:41
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Stskeeps	if it's the kernel and lib/modules, dump them on top of the n900 image	09:49
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BT	I have my linux kernel (uimahe) in FAT partition and rootfs in ext3 partition	09:51
BT	I saw all the files are inside meego-rootfs dir	09:52
BT	so I moved all to root dir	09:52
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BT	mount: mount point /sys/kernel/debug/ does not exist	09:52
Stskeeps	following http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_the_Beagle ?	09:52
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BT	Unknown HZ value! (87) Assume 100.	09:52
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BT	and then stops	09:52
tyler_	Heh, Meego on the Beagle... cute name.	09:53
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sivu	lo	09:58
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BT	today http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_the_Beagle is website has been updated	10:24
BT	I have followed what was on yesterday	10:24
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Stskeeps	might have been	10:25
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* gour is thinking about dell's 1012 netbook to be used for meego...anyone using it here?		10:45
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thiago	I've only heard of samsungs and lenovos	10:47
thiago	the important thing is to have a good Intel graphics card (not GMA950)	10:47
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gour	dell 1012 is on the list of supported devices	10:48
gour	GMA 3150	10:48
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Stskeeps	morn slaine	10:52
slaine	hey guys	10:52
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timeless_mbp	hi slaine	10:53
* timeless_mbp sighs		10:54
timeless_mbp	wtf	10:55
slaine	that was a one awesome weekend	10:55
* slaine is soooo tired		10:55
timeless_mbp	http://mxr.moego.org/repo2.meego.com/source/post-build-checks-1.0/	10:55
timeless_mbp	slaine: any idea why "patches" there is a symlink to '..' ?	10:55
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* timeless_mbp grumbles		10:55
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* timeless_mbp ponders		10:56
* timeless_mbp kicks post-build-checks		10:57
timeless_mbp	that was incredibly rude of it	10:57
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timeless_mbp	sure, let's include the entire world	10:57
* timeless_mbp sighs		10:59
timeless_mbp	sp3000: so.. that's the reason that mxr normally doesn't try to split things up	11:00
timeless_mbp	it relies on find protecting itself from certain levels of stupidity	11:00
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gour	i know it may be too early considering that handheld ui is not released, but i wonder how much work is, in general, expected to have qt app working on desktop, netbook & handheld, i.e. having one common codebase?	11:47
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giedz	anyone /	11:48
giedz	will meego run on marvel?	11:49
Stskeeps	what type of processor is it?	11:49
giedz	arm	11:49
Stskeeps	gour: i'd say high, if you seperate model and views	11:49
Stskeeps	if ARMv5, possibly, but you'll need GLES2 for a good experience	11:49
giedz	thx	11:50
gour	Stskeeps: you mean high level of common code?	11:50
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sivang	morning all	11:51
sivang	Stskeeps: high meaninig, too much work?	11:52
Stskeeps	gour: yes	11:52
sivang	Stskeeps: but the SDK promoted code once, build on a bunch of places	11:52
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sivang	*is promoted with	11:52
Stskeeps	sorry, didn't read your question completely	11:52
sivang	Stskeeps: :)	11:52
gour	Stskeeps: thanks. that is very encouraging to stay with meego	11:52
Stskeeps	keep in mind the UI you'll need is different on various platforms	11:53
Stskeeps	ie, touch ui isnt good for netbook ;)	11:53
sivang	Stskeeps: I wonder if that can be automated as well	11:53
sivang	Stskeeps: in the SDK	11:53
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sivang	Stskeeps: I mean, there's already automatic presentation suited for either screen size and device using the QT API, but didn't realize you need to write different UIs per input method.	11:54
Stskeeps	well, desktop and touch interfaces traditionally differ in usage..	11:55
sivang	Stskeeps: as in, on Maemo it has the hildon look, on MeeGo the meego look on symbian, the symbian look at.	11:55
Stskeeps	but i'm just talking out of my ass	11:55
Stskeeps	:P	11:55
sivang	Stskeeps: but if you just use the touch screen as a mouse...	11:55
sivang	Stskeeps: :)	11:55
sivang	Stskeeps: right, you can make the experience easier by providing more obvious touch areas for functionality	11:55
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sivang	Stskeeps: which you normally can slack off developing desktop ui	11:55
gour	Stskeeps: sure...but most of the code could be hopefully shared	11:55
sivang	gour: it can, yes.	11:56
sivang	gour: we've seen a live deme of this last week.	11:56
sivang	gour: very cool.	11:56
gour	sivang: really? this is awesome	11:56
sivang	gour: simulation and testing is also transparent to the user, including agains the device when plugged into the host where the SDK runs	11:56
sivang	gour: it is.	11:56
gour	sivang: i hope it will be the same considering we plan to use qthaskell	11:57
sivang	gour: "we" hhe, I meant, "I" saw , when I was in the Developer workshop.	11:57
sivang	gour: more into func programming?	11:57
pupnik	why not build a UI that falls back to "no animations" when a GPU with compositing is not present	11:57
gour	sivang: yep	11:57
sivang	pupnik++	11:57
pupnik	maybe someone with 15 knowledge can comment on feasability of that	11:58
pupnik	QT knowledge	11:58
sivang	pupnik: I'd extend this to more capabilities. http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-May/002504.html	11:59
sivang	pupnik: "I have a dream."	11:59
sivang	pupnik: :)	11:59
pupnik	sivang: that could also make it network capable	11:59
pupnik	ok reading	11:59
* pupnik joins sivang's army		12:00
sivang	hehe	12:00
pupnik	the UI concept is doable imo	12:01
sivang	I think so as well.	12:01
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pupnik	every animation either loops or has a start and end point. The UI framework could allow the dev to specify start state and end state (for e.g. a zoom) and if no GPU is present, the library will just draw end state	12:02
pupnik	or something like that	12:03
pupnik	maybe you can explain it better	12:03
pupnik	an example everyone should be familiar with is how WMs (like in windows 98) to disable animations when dragging windows	12:04
pupnik	s/to/can	12:04
pupnik	maybe i should go to that akademy and make a stink about it	12:04
sivang	yes, so easing curves could just be plain boring and appear at the start of the curve and then at the end.	12:05
sivang	pupnik: stink?	12:05
sivang	akademy is nice	12:05
sivang	never been there though.	12:05
pupnik	well you know, whine :)	12:05
sivang	hehe	12:05
sivang	ok	12:05
sivang	pupnik: better provide a patch!	12:05
pupnik	that is a good joke	12:06
pupnik	still, it would be the only way to prove it	12:06
pupnik	prove as in 'test'	12:06
sivang	right	12:07
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BT	hi, just now itried meego on beagleboard, getting error mount: mount point /sys/kernel/debug/ does not exist	12:09
Stskeeps	ordinary error	12:09
BT	how do I start X? and whats the root password?	12:09
sivang	a feature? =)	12:09
sivang	me has to get thiz beagleboard	12:10
BT	root password?	12:10
gour	BT meego?	12:10
BT	yes meego on beableboard	12:12
BT	may be silly Q, how to extract meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-sda.raw in SD card rootfs?	12:13
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timeless_mbp	gour: in theory QML + whatever will save your world	12:16
timeless_mbp	the reality is that no markup language works that way	12:17
BT	anyone tried meego on beagleboard?	12:17
timeless_mbp	compare Firefox with Firefox for Mobile	12:17
timeless_mbp	they're similar, but they aren't the same	12:17
timeless_mbp	it just doesn't make sense	12:17
timeless_mbp	sure you can use Chromium e.g. on the n900	12:17
timeless_mbp	but it's annoying	12:17
gour	timeless_mbp: yeah, qml looks promising, at least with quick-creator to help designers	12:17
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timeless_mbp	gour: i've been using XUL for a decade now	12:18
timeless_mbp	i think of QML as "yet another XML that came 15 years late"	12:18
gour	heh	12:18
gour	timeless_mbp: how late is meego?	12:18
timeless_mbp	XML isn't wonderful,….	12:18
* gour nods		12:18
thiago	timeless_mbp: except it's not XML	12:18
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timeless_mbp	thiago: nor was VB's markup	12:19
timeless_mbp	nor was Delphi's	12:19
timeless_mbp	but VB took over the world	12:19
thiago	because it was easy	12:19
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* timeless_mbp shrugs		12:20
sivang	Retarted is the word :)	12:20
timeless_mbp	coming 15 years late to a party is kinda bad	12:20
sivang	it is	12:21
sivang	your dancing partners are all gone	12:21
sivang	:/	12:21
timeless_mbp	i'm mean, welcome, glad you could (try to) make it	12:21
sivang	heh	12:21
sivang	timeless_mbp: are we going to trim down or cut/modify chromium or do they alrady have a mobile version?	12:21
timeless_mbp	who is we?	12:21
timeless_mbp	i'm working on fennec	12:21
sivang	err	12:22
* gour prefers to use fennec		12:22
sivang	we = meego community ?	12:22
timeless_mbp	the n900 chromium is just desktop chromium	12:22
timeless_mbp	i'm going to ignore chromium	12:22
BT	pinging : any one tried meego on beagleboard?	12:22
timeless_mbp	i'm assuming that since the n900 port looks just like desktop chromium that they don't have a mobile one	12:22
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sivang	timeless_mbp: but it uses webkit :=)	12:23
timeless_mbp	because if they did, surely the porter would have been smart enough to package that instead	12:23
timeless_mbp	sivang: which webkit	12:23
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sivang	timeless_mbp: indeed	12:23
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timeless_mbp	http://www.quirksmode.org/webkit.html	12:23
sivang	timeless_mbp: well, at least I know (and I know nothing) that Chrome is using webkit no?	12:23
timeless_mbp	> And remember [kids]:	12:23
timeless_mbp	> There is no “WebKit on mobile!”	12:23
timeless_mbp	sivang: webkit makes unix forking look simple	12:23
sivang	haha	12:24
sivang	without synchro?	12:24
timeless_mbp	and i mean that as a family of sexually dysfunctional operating systems	12:24
sivang	:)	12:24
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sivang	Well, I thought, with the unification and direction of QT on MeeGo, webkit sounded natural. Until you're forking example :)	12:25
sivang	*your	12:25
sivang	timeless_mbp: I attribute this to childhood trauma the unices suffered.	12:25
timeless_mbp	actually, perhaps i should offer: http://www.smokeybear.com/vault/history_main.asp	12:25
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timeless_mbp	but anyway	12:26
sivang	timeless_mbp: but for netbook there's chromium there no?	12:26
sivang	the netbook UE	12:26
timeless_mbp	chrome's out of process solution for webkit isn't the same as apple's	12:26
timeless_mbp	and i can't figure out which one is the official upstream solution	12:26
timeless_mbp	i'm 99% certain it isn't chrome's	12:26
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timeless_mbp	i'm unsure if it matches apple's	12:26
Myrtti	I think I need more coffee	12:27
timeless_mbp	actually, web browser ancestry is probably worse than unix ancestry	12:27
sivang	timeless_mbp: so threading is the original approach ?	12:27
BT	after starting the kernel, will there be any UI in the display? and whats the login username password?	12:27
sivang	Myrtti: we bore you again?	12:27
timeless_mbp	sivang: what i mean is that calling 'chrome' 'webkit'	12:27
timeless_mbp	is ignoring the fact that 'webkit' is doing 'something else' for a 'key feature'	12:27
sivang	timeless_mbp: ah , okay noted.	12:27
timeless_mbp	everyone's moving to multiple processes, even firefox	12:27
timeless_mbp	(4.0, fennec, whatever)	12:28
BT	sivang : can you help to run meego on beagleboard	12:28
Myrtti	sivang: no, I bore myself	12:29
sivang	Myrtti: hehe	12:29
sivang	BT: I wish I had one, sorry I don't	12:29
timeless_mbp	oh wow, smokey the bear was in the public domain and was taken out of it	12:29
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sivang	timeless_mbp: how's smokey related to browser history ?	12:33
troozers	Hi Guru's... can anyone point me in the direction of the MeeGo N900 install instructions..? cant seem to find them on the wiki	12:33
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sivang	troozers: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_native_install_on_N900 ?	12:34
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troozers	ta muchly sivang	12:35
troozers	:)	12:35
sivang	troozers: you're welcome	12:35
timeless_mbp	sivang: oh, smokey was famous for saying "Remember...."	12:36
timeless_mbp	"only you can prevent forest fires"	12:36
sivang	sure	12:36
sivang	I used to listen to it in Ithaca's College Radio	12:36
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timeless_mbp	i was pointing to the 'remember' from the quirksmode webkit comparison	12:36
sivang	heh	12:36
sivang	ok	12:36
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sivang	timeless_mbp: that comaprison is good	12:37
sivang	timeless_mbp: I di prefer firefox(mozilla codebase) but chrom (or webkit?) is so fast with most of the stuff I do, at least on the desktop	12:38
sivang	timeless_mbp: I have a desktop from 2004, chrome provides a quicker (not better! it drives me crazy with its caching when doing webdev so I switch to firefox/firebug)	12:39
sivang	timeless_mbp: experience.	12:39
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sivang	timeless_mbp: on a latest machine at work I just firefox solely.	12:39
Bostik	firebug + webdeveloper are invaluable, that much I agree with	12:40
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* timeless_mbp can not figure out how to play smoke jumper :(		12:40
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sivang	Bostik: chrome sucks badly for web dev, at least for me it killed many hours when working with mod_rewrite and friends	12:40
Bostik	sivang: for me chrome sucks for general use too, because it A) does not honour fontconfig, and B) does not allow any kind of content-policy (adblock+ and friends)	12:42
* timeless_mbp chuckles		12:42
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* timeless_mbp got −1 fires		12:42
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Bostik	some of my other gripes are minor and subject to improvements in relatively near future	12:43
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Bostik	but completely separate font-rendering causes a visually unappealing experience, and the inability to blacklist stuff from ever even being loaded is a big problem	12:45
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troozers	hi all, i am following the n900 install instructions but can't find the .zImage kernel image.. any ideas?	12:52
macron	I am trying to remember, does anybody know if there is a problem with ATI graphics cards? I am trying to install Meego in a Lenovo T60p, it seems to think it installs, but I never get more than the blue Meego screen.	12:54
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macron	Alt-F1 does not provide a shell, so it must be something deeper than X.	12:54
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pupnik	for development there should be a way to boot to console	12:55
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thiago	macron: did you install the ATI opengl drivers before you tried to boot meego?	12:56
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macron	No, how can I install the drivers when I do not even get a shell?	12:57
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macron	I am misunderstanding something.....	12:57
sx0n	macron, maybe you could boot to single user mode?	12:57
thiago	macron: you need to install them before you bring up the UI	12:58
thiago	meego requires OpenGL	12:58
macron	OK, I have a DVD with the Meego Netbook image on it, when I start the installation procedure every goes well.	12:58
macron	I restart the device at the end of the procedure, and it asks me for a user name, timezone etc. then it restarts and I do not get a commandline.	12:59
macron	So I guess this means that the image I have does not have the ATI opengl drivers.	12:59
thiago	correct	12:59
thiago	ATI proprietary drivers are not shipped	12:59
pupnik	can you pass "single" to boot cmdline?	13:00
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macron	pupnik: how is that usually done?	13:00
macron	I cannot seem to break into the boot procedure, (or I do not know the secret key combination).	13:01
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macron	thiago: are the ATI drivers available?	13:02
thiago	macron: from ATI	13:02
thiago	go talk to them	13:02
macron	(Do you have their address?) :)	13:02
tyler_	Relative to my interests since I want to install Nvidia drivers on MeeGo.	13:02
pupnik	i thought there would be a boot command line	13:02
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pupnik	it still uses grub, no?	13:03
thiago	macron: ati.com	13:03
pupnik	"Edit the boot command line to remove "quiet" and	13:03
pupnik	boot to single user mode. Watch the boot progress for errors/hangs. Check out	13:03
pupnik	the dmesg log. If you get to single user mode, try startx. if this fails	13:03
pupnik	review the xorg log.	13:03
tyler_	MeeGo is a Linux distribution like any other, there has to be a way to install the driver through a root shell.	13:04
thiago	you can always use a rescue live-CD and install the thing	13:05
macron	The issue is to get the root shell in the first place. I never get a command prompt.	13:05
troozers	anyone know where the MeeGo linux kernel image (.zImage) resides for the N900.. .doesn't seem to be where the ubiimg sits	13:06
gour	how one can try to start meego from the shell? startx gives twb :-/	13:06
thiago	gour: what did you download?	13:07
gour	thiago: netbook-chromium image which i just installed under vbox	13:07
pupnik	that sucks macron. there should be a boot prompt somewhere	13:07
thiago	then I don't know	13:07
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jarkko^	i get atleats X11 + twm inside vbox	13:07
pupnik	or use a bootable cd/stick to edit the meego startup to go to console runlevel	13:07
jarkko^	but no luck with the netbook UX	13:08
tyler_	Yeah, try pupnik's advice.	13:08
jarkko^	sudo telinit 3 && sudo startx seems work	13:08
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pupnik	how do you type that from a blue-screen-of-fail?	13:10
jarkko^	i pressed esc to get into grub menu	13:10
jarkko^	and then removed silent from the boot line	13:10
pupnik	excellent..	13:11
jarkko^	after boot is complete i just press alt-f1 to get into console login	13:11
jarkko^	and then sudo telinit 3	13:11
tyler_	Nice.	13:11
sx0n	jarkko^, nice hacking ;)	13:11
tyler_	Yeah, good job.	13:12
BT	whats the root password in meego in beagleboard?	13:12
pupnik	macron: heads-up	13:12
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tyler_	macron: Let us know how it turns out :) Good luck to ye.	13:13
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pupnik	BT: tried meego, rootme, thoughtpolice ?	13:14
macron	Thanks for the advice.	13:14
gaveen	Might've already seen: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/meego-moorestown-powered-tablet-hands-on/	13:14
sx0n	i want one... i am just surfing intel's motherboards from amazon.	13:15
BT	password as thoughtpolice and rootme? both tried	13:15
sx0n	meego?	13:16
sx0n	ah ok.	13:16
tyler_	I think MeeGo would work great on a tablet due to it's UI design and it's speed.	13:16
sx0n	moorestown tablet looks like mirror.	13:17
BT	password meego works thanks sx0n	13:17
BT	how to start the UI?	13:17
* slaine is eager to see meego on a tablet		13:18
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pupnik	a tablet with niced bluetooth keyboard would look good on a coffeetable	13:19
tyler_	Wouldn't you have to lean over to view it? Or would it be propped up at an angle?	13:20
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kaz2057	hi	13:21
pupnik	needs a stand	13:21
tyler_	What I would love to do with a tablet is to mount it on a wall and integrate it with a house wide media system.	13:22
tyler_	That's some fancy dreaming though.	13:22
kaz2057	anyone use gmail with evolution? i have problem with gmail and "mail preview" on myzone ...	13:22
kaz2057	myzone alert me hotmail news just ... gmail not working ...	13:23
kaz2057	anybody has my same problem?	13:23
sx0n	tyler, i would piss off few ipad fans. :)	13:24
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pupnik	why dont we have laser projectors? product liability/legal?	13:24
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pupnik	only rear-view are available	13:25
tyler_	If the Ipad had more features then I would buy it.	13:25
tyler_	Jobs firm stance on app store regulation and Flash makes me rage.	13:26
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troozers	ok that didn't seem to work... NAND flashed my N900, but just get tux in the top left and then all goes dark	13:26
troozers	can someone confirm i've got the right files?	13:29
jarkko^	http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_VirtualBox	13:30
troozers	got the .ubiimg from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/0.9.80.1.20100330.1/n900/images/meego-codedrop-arm-n900/	13:30
jarkko^	i added my instructions there	13:30
jarkko^	or more like notes	13:30
troozers	and the linux kernel image from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/	13:30
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macron	pupnik: Thanks for the editing tip for the boot command line (hitting Esc got me to the grub menu, and tab let me do the editing).	13:33
macron	Any way to get the ATI opengl drivers using the commandline?	13:33
sivang	timeless: you know limi ?	13:33
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pupnik	macron: thank you also - i am learning from people's problems	13:34
tyler_	Can't you wget?	13:35
pupnik	is wget installed? ;)	13:35
tyler_	Good point - is it?	13:35
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macron	wget should be there.	13:35
tyler_	Emphasis on 'should.'	13:36
tyler_	But you should be able to wget the binary blob and install it from the shell... unless I'm mistaken.	13:37
tyler_	Lol, I'm going to have to deal with this problem when I install Nvidia drivers.	13:38
kaz2057	but repo is meebo just? or are there external once?	13:38
macron	wget is there, the destination is the next step	13:38
tyler_	Hop onto the ati website and find a download link.	13:39
tyler_	macron: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx	13:40
pupnik	http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=meego_10_perf&num=1 meego performance vs ubuntu, moblin, fedora	13:41
vgrade	slaine, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUiSnITKeRY, meego on a tablet!	13:41
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slaine	vgrade: sweet, thanks	13:42
pupnik	same device with OMAP please	13:42
slaine	joggler, lolk	13:42
slaine	thats not a tablet	13:42
pupnik	as the intel	13:42
vgrade	slaine, it is if you chop the stand off :)	13:43
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slaine	and carry around a car battery	13:43
vgrade	:)	13:43
tyler_	vgrade: A netbook can become a tablet if you cop the keyboard off :)	13:44
tyler_	/s/cop/chop	13:44
vgrade	tyler, only if you have as ts	13:45
tyler_	I believe there are some produced actually.	13:45
tyler_	I would have to look it up, but I could be wrong.	13:45
macron	tyler_: The support site points to the Lenovo support site that only lists Windows for the T60/T60p.	13:46
vgrade	tyler, any supported by meego 1.0?	13:46
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tyler_	vgrade: I was lightly joking.	13:47
tyler_	vgrade: I'm sure whatever was in that link was interesting and informative.	13:47
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kakashi_	is anybody using meego for n900?	13:47
tyler_	macron: Is that the name of the card or of your laptop (I know nothing about ATI card models)	13:48
kaz2057	nobody explain me doubts about repo?	13:49
Tumi_	kakashi_: I tried briefly the pre-release	13:49
Tumi_	not much fun without UI though :/	13:49
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kakashi_	hmm...	13:49
tyler_	macron: http://vizzzion.org/?id=t60 <--- Maybe relevant to your interests?	13:50
kakashi_	so what are the plans of porting meego to n900	13:51
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Stskeeps	kakashi_: it's supposed to be the ARM reference device,so	13:52
kakashi_	hmm... well, actually I am new to meego, but would sure like to contribute on the porting issues (ofcourse I am joining the mailing lists)	13:53
Stskeeps	kakashi_: if you want to contribute to N900 stuff, start out at wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900	13:54
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vgrade	Will the new ivi driver patch in here support GMA500 it looks to have poulsbo code? http://meego.gitorious.org/~xinyunliu/meego-os-base/xylius-kernel-source/trees/master	13:57
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visz	how can you turn on backlight on n900 arm meego?	13:58
kakashi_	Stskeeps, is there a specific thread for the meego - n900 fork?	13:59
kakashi_	I mean the mailing list	13:59
Stskeeps	kakashi_: no, meego-dev mailing list, our prefix is N900	13:59
Stskeeps	ie, most of our mails start with N900	13:59
Stskeeps	vgrade: i kinda hope it will	14:00
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Stskeeps	kakashi_: but the page should list our collaboration spaces, mailing list, gitorious, irc, etc	14:01
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vgrade	stskeeps, I'll have a go later, have stalled a bit on the IEGD version, opengl text just comes up as blocks	14:05
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kakashi_	Stskeeps, awesome, got it	14:06
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gaveen	Engadget article now had a video too. http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/meego-moorestown-powered-tablet-hands-on/	14:13
gaveen	*has	14:13
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* Stskeeps ponders idly		14:15
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* thiago thinks he needs to order some of those for the office		14:21
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thiago	tmikola: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/01/meego-moorestown-powered-tablet-hands-on/	14:21
thiago	tmikola: how do we order those? :-)	14:21
BT	hi, now I am able to run meego on beagleboard	14:22
tyler_	Has anyone had any success with installing codecs in MeeGo?	14:22
thiago	BT: take a look at the wiki page on beagleboard	14:22
BT	nerworking is working also, want to install some package	14:22
BT	which tool is used to install package, is it zipper?	14:23
tmikola	thiago: Buy one and make a travel expense claim :)	14:23
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thiago	tmikola: the larger-voltage battery worked	14:24
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Vortiago	BT, yum is used	14:30
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TurboVomit	hi meego users	14:44
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TurboVomit	meego don't work with me	14:45
TurboVomit	bug in initramfs /init detected. Dropping to a shell . Good luck !	14:45
BT	now xterm is running in beagleboard, want to install some package, any help I can get?	14:46
TurboVomit	bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1): inapropriate ioctl for device	14:46
TurboVomit	bash: no job control in this shell	14:46
TurboVomit	:(	14:47
TurboVomit	what is ioctl ?	14:47
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Vortiago	BT, yum install 'package'	14:49
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BT	i tried zypper in xfce-utils but some problem	14:51
Stskeeps	BT: edit /etc/yum.repos.d to point to the arm repos instead	14:52
TurboVomit	hey, there is an error on the mabsite	14:52
Stskeeps	(check the urls out)	14:52
TurboVomit	website	14:52
TurboVomit	download the netbook version give you a chromonium netbook	14:52
TurboVomit	is it normal?	14:52
BT	just tried yum command, says not found	14:53
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TurboVomit	2 hours to download meego img ...	14:57
TurboVomit	boring	14:57
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TurboVomit	i live in the past	14:58
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hircus	hello -- some of us have been having problems connecting to 802.1X WiFi networks -- http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=2640 . Is there any known fix?	15:02
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frals	love how the intel meego tablet is showing year as 1970 in the engadget pictures	15:05
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Stskeeps	i don't understand the problem of adding a rtc sometimes	15:06
Stskeeps	:P	15:06
vgrade	turbovomit, have you tried the mirror at kernel.org, I got 5.4MB/sec yesterday	15:07
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suneel	hi guys suneel herre	15:09
suneel	i have some doubts re garding the latest release of netboox ux of meego..	15:09
suneel	can any body help me out	15:09
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leinir	Most likely not... You've not told us what they are, and i don't know that anybody here's a mind reader ;)	15:10
Myrtti	not before you cough up your real question	15:10
suneel	:)	15:11
suneel	firefox browser (fennec) does it support webgl	15:11
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Myrtti	that's not a question	15:12
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suneel	i studies some where ---Firefox(Fennec Browser supports WebGL) in Maemo 5.	15:13
sx0n	suneel, you can try wegl demos with that, i kind of see one working.	15:13
sx0n	but that's hardly a #meego issue :)	15:14
suneel	i didnt get you..	15:14
suneel	can you please explain clearly....sxon...?	15:15
Myrtti	suneel: you didn't explain yourself too clearly	15:16
suneel	may be..	15:16
suneel	but you can help me out	15:17
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pupnik	Google to ban windows PCs from corporation :)	15:18
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sivang	pupnik: heh	15:27
sivang	what a foundation.	15:27
sivang	webgl is originating from moz, how appropriate :)	15:28
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TSCHAKeee2	tyler_: http://www.linuxmce.org/	15:35
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TSCHAKeee2	tyler_: look at that, sometime. We've been doing it.	15:35
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jarkko^	i added also info on installing vbox guest additions to wiki	15:41
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tyler_	TSCHAKeee2: Wait, what was that in response to?	15:43
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sx0n	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVIKYF7MOzU	16:01
sx0n	another meego video	16:02
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BT	looks some help for meego on BB, zypper search is ok \| xfce-utils \| package \| 4.6.1-9.1 \| armv7l \| MeeGo Extra - ARM	16:22
BT	but cant install	16:22
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* CosmoHill dances cos he's just finished his university year		16:25
Stskeeps	so what are you contributing to meego over the summer?	16:26
Stskeeps	;)	16:26
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GAN900	Ooh, I have an answer for that one! A dose of realist rationality. ;)	16:28
GAN900	i.e., trolling :P	16:28
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Termana	:P	16:29
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CosmoHill	http://machall.com/view.php?date=2002-12-23 I'm just posted his on the assignment forum for c++ programming	16:29
CosmoHill	since it seems to describe our assignment	16:29
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TSCHAKeee2	tyler_: you were saying about using tablets with a whole house media system	16:31
TSCHAKeee2	tyler_: been there, done that.	16:31
TSCHAKeee2	tyler_: :)	16:32
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CosmoHill	speaking of tablets, I saw two guys comparing ipads	16:34
CosmoHill	no idea why, they're identical and you can't use them in the exam	16:34
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GAN900	Nokia is gonna need to step up for the end of the year	16:37
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GAN900	What with A4s in the iPhone 4G and the dual-core 1.2GHz Snapdragon coming.	16:38
smoku	TSCHAKeee2: wanna share some insight, or are you just bragging out? :>	16:38
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tyler_	TSCHAKeee2, Oh, I knew it was possible. I was just sayin' that a tablet would probably be a cheap/cool way to implement a control panel for it.	16:42
Termana	smoku, I believe TSCHAKeee2 is the developer for a home media integration program	16:42
Termana	Details are sketchy for me at the moment since its late at night, but I'm sure he can fill in the blanks	16:42
Termana	:P	16:42
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gour	what is the name of the meego's kernel source package?	16:47
Stskeeps	kernel	16:47
Stskeeps	:P	16:47
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CosmoHill	I don't think the source is separated from the binary	16:48
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TSCHAKeee2	tyler_: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2013509531300772806	16:48
TSCHAKeee2	tyler_: that is part 2, showing the tablet running, part 1, shows the physical tablet.. in this case, I used a DT Research WebDT 366	16:48
lucazade	hi! gma500 support?? http://meego.gitorious.org/~xinyunliu/meego-os-base/xylius-kernel-source/commits/master	16:49
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TSCHAKeee2	tyler_: but our orbiter software runs on TONS of stuff, including phones, Nokia 770/N800/810/900, Cisco 7970, any windows or linux PC, symbian and j2me phones, etc.	16:49
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TSCHAKeee2	tyler_: work is starting to replace orbiter with something much better, but for now, this is what is used.	16:50
CosmoHill	TSCHAKeee2: doesn't want to play for me :(	16:50
TSCHAKeee2	tyler_: but as i said, been there, done that. ;)	16:50
TSCHAKeee2	blink wha?	16:50
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TSCHAKeee2	that's videos.google.com	16:50
CosmoHill	now it is	16:50
gour	Stskeeps: hmm...somehow i do not find kernel sources... /usr/src/kernels is empty	16:50
Stskeeps	gour: ah, it's in the srpm i guess, and headers are in kernel-whatever-devel	16:51
CosmoHill	TSCHAKeee2: that you speeking?	16:51
TSCHAKeee2	CosmoHill: yes.	16:51
CosmoHill	ooo	16:51
gour	Stskeeps: i'm not famliar with yum (using archlinux)..how to install kernel src?	16:52
Stskeeps	gour: yumdownloader --source kernel, maybe	16:52
gour	let me try..	16:52
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CosmoHill	did you just turn our house lights off and one?	16:53
CosmoHill	on?>	16:53
TSCHAKeee2	CosmoHill: yes.	16:53
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CosmoHill	:o	16:54
* CosmoHill watches meego explode on this laptop		16:56
Termana	Do you guys live together? :P	16:57
Termana	You know so when I come to slay you I know I can get 2-in-1	16:57
CosmoHill	I think i have an issue with my sd card	16:57
Termana	:D	16:57
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vgrade	lukazade, just building it now for my joggler	16:58
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CosmoHill	D-bus got up to error 10000 by the time I got my laptop to hard shutdown	17:00
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CosmoHill	aaah	17:02
CosmoHill	it's a human	17:02
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* thiago is a human		17:03
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CosmoHill	if anyone has a reason not to burn meego to a DVD, you're to late	17:04
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gour	ok. i dl-ed kernel src rpm...how to install it now?	17:06
arjan	what do you want with it	17:06
arjan	if all you want is to change a few config options and build it again	17:06
arjan	rpm -i it	17:06
arjan	go to ~/rpmbuild/	17:06
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arjan	in SOURCES you'll find the config files to edit	17:07
arjan	in SPECS you find kernel.spec	17:07
arjan	which you can buid with	17:07
arjan	rpmbuild -ba kernel.spec	17:07
arjan	and it'll pick up the things from SOURCES	17:07
gour	arjan: i need kernel sources available	17:07
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arjan	for?	17:07
arjan	don't say "for building modules" please	17:07
arjan	since then you're on the wrong track :)	17:07
Stskeeps	if for building modules, grab kernel-something-devel?	17:08
arjan	yup	17:08
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CosmoHill	hey arjan and Stskeeps	17:08
gour	ahh...i'm playing with vbox stuff	17:08
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arjan	if all you want is to build modules, use kernel-netbook-devel	17:09
CosmoHill	yum search kernel ?	17:09
gour	ok	17:09
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arjan	the kernel sources are actually utterly useless for doing that	17:09
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vgrade	arjan, http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/xylius-kernel-source, PowerVR gfx driver	17:11
arjan	?	17:12
Stskeeps	vgrade: chances are it's 'just' IEGD stuff	17:12
Stskeeps	they were supposed to use meego 1.0 as a PoR according to a public site	17:12
vgrade	does not look like, building now	17:12
arjan	could also be the mrst driver	17:12
arjan	note that this is just the modesetting and memory manager	17:13
arjan	none of the actual graphics stuff is in there	17:13
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vgrade	no the its not the same patch as the moorsetown one	17:13
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Stskeeps	vgrade: it looks quite similar to a traditional SGX driver.	17:14
vgrade	stskeeps, will report back after its built	17:15
dneary	Is there some MeeGo IRC meeting on today?	17:15
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Stskeeps	hmm, not sure	17:16
Stskeeps	June 1, 19:00 UTC: Community Office Meeting	17:16
bergie	ah	17:16
bergie	again quite late for here :-/	17:17
CosmoHill	agenda?	17:17
gour	running 'startx' from meego terminal brings up twm. what should bring meego ui up?	17:18
CosmoHill	try "init 5"	17:18
CosmoHill	it might crash your computer tho :/	17:18
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gour	don't worry about itz	17:18
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Termana	http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings still shows 18th of May so obviously thats not the current agenda :P	17:19
gour	huh...only (old) respawning too fast message :-/	17:19
CosmoHill	shame there isn't a way for me to record my laptop screen	17:20
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lucazade	vgrade: is a new driver for poulsbo?	17:24
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CosmoHill	arjan: what's the dev package	17:30
CosmoHill	for gcc binutils, make etc?	17:30
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odin_	why is it "MEEGO-IL10N" ? L10N = Localization I18N = Internationalization	17:31
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gour	is anyone playing with running meego under vbox? i managed to build guestadditions but have some problem with running services	17:44
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bogie11	gour: what kind of problems?	17:51
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CosmoHill	gour: I just saw a vmware graphics driver	17:54
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CosmoHill	if meego is i586, why is glibc i686?	17:55
thiago	optimisations	17:56
thiago	and meego is supposed to be ia32-on-ssse3	17:56
odin_	Hmmm no not really, just Intel's spin	17:58
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thiago	_supposed_ to be	17:58
odin_	I just hope it is compatible with desktop ia32 linux, otherwise there might be a rift	17:59
CosmoHill	where is xorg.conf?	17:59
odin_	often /etc/X11/	18:00
thiago	CosmoHill: X doesn't need a config file	18:00
thiago	it can work without one	18:00
CosmoHill	hmm	18:00
CosmoHill	so how to I load the nvidia model?	18:00
CosmoHill	module*	18:00
thiago	create the xorg.conf file	18:00
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CosmoHill	hey DawnFoster	18:01
CosmoHill	turned out it was my SD card that was causing meego to fail to boot	18:02
DawnFoster	Hey CosmoHill	18:02
DawnFoster	aha	18:02
CosmoHill	burnt it to DVD and it worked	18:02
CosmoHill	well I say worked.....as good as you can get for a non-supported device	18:02
Stskeeps	morn DawnFoster - any agenda on for CO meeting tonight?	18:02
DawnFoster	Stskeeps - We're going to cancel it	18:02
Stskeeps	makes sense	18:03
DawnFoster	there wasn't anything proposed for the agenda	18:03
Stskeeps	no agenda - no reason for meeting :)	18:03
DawnFoster	and those of us in the us are still recovering from a 3 day holiday weekend :)	18:03
DawnFoster	exactly!	18:03
Stskeeps	hehe	18:03
odin_	all too busy, playing with MeeGo v1.0 :)	18:03
GAN900	"Recovering", eh?	18:03
DawnFoster	stskeeps: btw, any chance I can get you to run those IRC stats for May (or send me a link if you already ran it) :)	18:03
Termana	You know, I don't think jet lag applies to 3 day weekends :P	18:04
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: yes, but tomorrow morning - whats the deadline?	18:04
DawnFoster	GAN900: I'm afraid to tackle my email :)	18:04
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: meego slate ui seems to be well received by media, at least	18:04
GAN900	Retail makes for sucky 3-day weekends.	18:04
DawnFoster	Stskeeps: I'm still gathing other data, so sometime tomorrow if you have time?	18:04
Stskeeps	(pre alpha)	18:04
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: yep	18:05
* Stskeeps goes write a postit for his screen		18:05
DawnFoster	thanks	18:06
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gour	CosmoHill: but that won't help me with vbox, right?	18:06
CosmoHill	probably not	18:06
CosmoHill	I'm trying to get twm under nvidia	18:06
CosmoHill	I've killed my keyboard and mouse :(	18:07
gour	i can use twm under vbox, but meego is not meant for such UI :-D	18:07
CosmoHill	well I figure if I can get twm under nvidia and can get the ui under it	18:08
gour	how would one call meego ui from within twm?	18:08
CosmoHill	not got that far	18:08
gour	i'm not sure which command to invoke? init5 in the terminal just spits 'respawning too fast' error	18:09
* CosmoHill looks at his beige		18:09
CosmoHill	I swear it was white when i put it again..	18:09
sx0n\|home	gour: you could start x with xinit and start other wm iirc	18:10
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gour	sx0n\|home: yeah, but what should start 'meego ui' ?	18:11
gour	sx0n\|home: btw, the error is mission 'daemon' command in vbox services...i've to go out. bbs to resume my attempts	18:11
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sx0n\|home	gour: dunno. there should be some sort of binary, maybe configured in etc/X11 somewhere. maybe you need some extra packages installed using yum	18:13
sx0n\|home	i have not yet tested.	18:13
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sx0n\|home	or build meegotouch from gitorious	18:13
odin_	ls	18:13
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sx0n\|home	dd	18:13
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arjan	gour: uxlaunch is what starts teh GUI session	18:14
odin_	opps have not got used to the Linux dual head :(	18:14
CosmoHill	hmm, I ran Xorg --config and X -config xorg.conf.new and it just dumped the frame buffer onto the screen and then hunh	18:14
FunkyPenguin	is the MeeGo obs publicly accessible yet?	18:14
arjan	CosmoHill: on meego we don't use a xorg.conf ;)	18:14
sx0n\|home	gotta go, i've got ac/dc tickets for todays concert. ;)	18:14
CosmoHill	that's why I made one	18:14
CosmoHill	I need to tell it to load the nvidia driver somehow	18:15
odin_	CosmoHill, are you trying to get MeeGo working on "non-standard hardware" ?	18:15
CosmoHill	yes	18:15
odin_	ah well then, you are doing the right thing, keep playing at it :)	18:15
sx0n\|home	CosmoHill i saw message that it(X) automatically tried to load nv	18:16
Vortiago	gour, the 'missing daemon command' thing can be fixed by editing the vbox startup-scripts (You have to add . /etc/init.d/functions so that it can locate the daemon function from there)	18:16
CosmoHill	i think i get that if I run "startx"	18:16
CosmoHill	I have the nvidia driver and any rpm's I use on my memory stick	18:16
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odin_	FunkyPenguin, I don't belive so, still waiting on h/w to be ready is the last I hear last week, there is a Wiki page somewhere with status	18:17
Stskeeps	DawnFoster: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats.may.html	18:17
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DawnFoster	stskeeps: sweet, that was fast, thanks!	18:18
FunkyPenguin	odin_, ok thanks	18:18
CosmoHill	hmm I see. $HOME/.Xclients first, then /etc/X11/xinit/Xclients followed by the fallback of twm, xterm etc	18:18
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Stskeeps	DawnFoster: postit blocked my view and i had 5 minutes free time ;)	18:19
* odin_ hopes that the user with the longest IRC line lengths is not being recorded		18:19
Stskeeps	odin_: you'd win, for sure	18:19
odin_	ah we can see to talks the most, hehe	18:19
odin_	it DOES letters/line ha ha!	18:20
CosmoHill	if I'm right i've seen a mistake	18:20
CosmoHill	if (something) {do something}	18:20
Termana	Stskeeps, that was a great "prediction" ;)	18:20
CosmoHill	else if (same thing) {do the same thing}	18:20
CosmoHill	/etc/X11/xinit/Xclients line 61	18:21
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Stskeeps	odin_: average 89 chars per mine, record ;p	18:21
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Termana	Stskeeps, lol your nickname is the 7th most used word	18:22
Termana	Mr. Popular :P	18:22
Stskeeps	or i chat too much and work too little	18:22
Stskeeps	:P	18:22
odin_	does the colour denote the time of day on the most....	18:23
Tm_T	Stskeeps: glad you said it yourself (;	18:23
w00t_	i'm highly impressed i'm still at #17	18:23
* Tm_T hides		18:23
Vortiago	Go make a patch CosmoHill :P But yea, the last part there isn't realy needed	18:23
w00t_	(then again, i need to talk more so I overtake GAN900)	18:23
w00t_	also, Stskeeps, I love my quote..	18:24
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odin_	shouldn't it be "Stskeeps!" everyone start using an exclamation mark after that word now :)	18:25
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Stskeeps	DawnFoster: and a new stats, for meego-arm: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats.arm.may.html	18:28
* odin_ hides		18:28
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Stskeeps	(which might be interesting as it's from when we start open development)	18:29
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GAN900	w00t_, sucker.	18:30
DawnFoster	thanks	18:30
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CosmoHill	bollocks >.<	18:35
CosmoHill	I copy the built-in xorg config and it hangs	18:36
gour	arjan: uxlaunch does not produce any effect...	18:36
gour	Vortiago: thanks. let me try it	18:36
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GAN900	w00t_, isn't it depressing you're behind my N900 nick? :P	18:39
w00t_	not really	18:39
GAN900	Not sure who for, though. g	18:39
w00t_	i have more productive things to do than whinge a lot on IRC evilgrin	18:39
GAN900	Yeah, sure, so YOU claim.	18:42
w00t_	truth!	18:42
sivang	Stskeeps: for someone who's witnessing for himself his talking of his ass most of the time, that doesn't look so good :)	18:42
w00t_	although admittedly today has been mostly a masochistic day	18:42
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cor_r	Is meego also installable on a laptop?	18:43
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CosmoHill	cat /dev/input/mouce is fun :)	18:44
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CosmoHill	you do have to type "reset" afterwards	18:44
sivang	Stskeeps: although if you apply for Pet Detective sequal, then that's applicative.	18:44
* sivang finished his comic corner today		18:45
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cor_r	??	18:48
Tm_T	cor_r: is	18:48
odin_	cor_r, yea and no, the current images targets newer Atom based laptops, which CPU do you have ?	18:49
cor_r	inte core duo 6600	18:49
odin_	cor_r, but there is no reason why MeeGo for Intel can't in future support older kit (as per the Linux way), its just doing to take some more time for people to work on that	18:49
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cor_r	odin_, ok thank you for ur answer :)	18:50
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Stskeeps	odin_: primary argument is that most apps will be built towards the atom baseline.	18:53
odin_	its a "Core 2 Duo", do might do, but my hunch is not, I can't see explicitly SSSE3 in the data sheet (I can see it doesn't have ANI which is pretty new)	18:53
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cor_r	ok thank you guys, I will just have a try and hope that i t will work :)	18:54
odin_	well if the users are happy that is great, but the linux way is to support older h/w and there is no reason MeeGo can not	18:54
pupnik	i still have systems without NX bit	18:54
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odin_	it should at least during bootup indicate to the user, "Kernel bootup aborted, SSSE3 support not found", when booting the pre-made images	18:55
Stskeeps	agreed	18:55
CosmoHill	http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_4022.html	18:55
CosmoHill	hmm	18:56
Stskeeps	i think there used to be	18:56
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odin_	but I'm guessing they have broken the ABI, due to the fact people without the support can even run a binary, unless its just a simple case that no callback i386 versions of libraries have not been provided (space optimization of pre-made images)	18:59
odin_	maybe they should have /lib/ld-linux-meego-ssse3-madeup.so are their DL, then they can do what they want	19:00
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CosmoHill	meego is xorg 1.8 correct?	19:03
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csd	Hi I'm looking at the n900 kickstart and it points to this URL http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/arm/os which doesn't exist - anyone know the right URL?	19:08
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odin_	http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/images/meego-n900-open-armv7l/ ???	19:10
csd	the kickstart on that URL seems to be live. I'll take a look on that one. thanks	19:11
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dneary	Is the MeeGo community software meeting in 1h?	19:16
CosmoHill	dneary: nope, it's been cancelled	19:16
odin_	it may have been cancelled due to no agenda, please check Wiki page	19:16
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dneary	Really? That's like 5 meetings in a month cancelled or without critical mass of people to work on them	19:17
dneary	It's getting beyond ridiculous	19:17
odin_	Hmm do you have an issue to raise tho ?	19:17
dneary	odin_, Not particularly - beyond being informed what's going on	19:18
odin_	since I don't think it made the agenda deadline, raise an item for 2 weeks time then, "What is going on?" lol	19:18
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GAN900	Yo, dneary.	19:18
CosmoHill	arjan can I make a feature requestion for meego 1.1?	19:19
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gour	i can build vbox guestadditions, but attempt to run uxlaunch is killed and dmesg shows vboxclient segfaults in libx11 :-/	19:19
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odin_	are you asking for help debugging ? are you asking if its a known issue ? are you expecting us to debug it over IRC ?	19:21
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gour	i'm asking it it should be possible to run meego under vbox	19:23
dneary	hi GAN900	19:23
gour	forum posts are not very encouraging	19:24
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gour	odin_: of course any help is welcome	19:24
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GAN900	dneary, good vacation?	19:25
dneary	Not a vacation, a move	19:26
odin_	gour, ok, just wasn't clear how someone might help, vbox is x86 emulator ? sorry I am MeeGo ARM user	19:26
dneary	And unfortunately internet outage lasted longer than I expected	19:26
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dneary	But all sorted now	19:26
dneary	Still catching up though :(	19:26
gour	odin_: yes...it was possible to try moblin with it, but no luck with meego :-/	19:26
dneary	I just saw why I didn't get notified of the meeting cancellation, it was on the forums	19:26
dneary	Oh, no, it wasn't	19:27
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dneary	It wasn't anywhere	19:27
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dneary	odin_, Are we talking about the same meeting?	19:29
odin_	now maybe a good time to trot out "meego-meeting@group.calendar.google.com" but it is not very good at cancelling meetings	19:29
dneary	Community office meeting is marked as cancelled in http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule	19:29
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Termana	dneary, the meeting was only just cancelled a little while ago	19:29
odin_	the MeeGo CWG Meeting, the 1st (7pm) and 3rd Tues (2pm) of every month?	19:29
dneary	but there should still be a community software meeting with tero, lbt, et al	19:29
dneary	Termana, Which one?	19:29
Termana	Community office/working group one	19:30
dneary	odin_, I'm talking about this one: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=224	19:30
dneary	Which is.... tomorrow!!!	19:30
dneary	:)	19:30
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odin_	http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Working_Group_Meeting this is the one due today (but cancelled, says 15 June 2pm now)	19:33
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DawnFoster	we cancelled the bi-weekly community office meeting, which was scheduled today.	19:34
Termana	odin_, I think we've established dneary is talking about a different meeting than the CWG meeting :) He is talking about the on in his link (the Meow meeting)	19:34
DawnFoster	the community applications meeting is still tomorrow	19:34
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GAN900	dneary, ah, right, confusing you and Jaffa	19:34
Termana	For those that don't get the joke - Meow, CAT, Community Applications Team :p	19:35
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dneary	I thought we got rid of all the Community_Working_Group links in the wiki	19:35
dneary	Shouldn't that be Community Office/Meeting?	19:35
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dneary	DawnFoster, Just wondering - why is "To karma or not to karma?" still up as an agenda item in Community Office/Meetings?	19:36
Termana	Why was the named even changed from Community Work Group to Community Office?	19:36
Termana	name*	19:36
dneary	DawnFoster, I have moved on, consider the question closed	19:36
DawnFoster	dneary: I haven't had time to update that page	19:36
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dneary	DawnFoster, Ah, OK	19:36
DawnFoster	it's still showing info from the last meeting.	19:36
dneary	I updated the CO page	19:36
dneary	the meeting date was changed in the page, though - so someone's updating it	19:36
DawnFoster	termana: to avoid confusion. We're using "working groups" to refer to platforms (netbook, handset, etc.)	19:37
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CosmoHill	hehe "working"	19:37
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DawnFoster	more details about working groups / governance here: http://meego.com/about/governance	19:38
sivang	ahh nice to be here from the bus on n900	19:39
GAN900	Termana, it was?	19:39
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Termana	GAN900, the fact you have to ask that after DawnFoster has just even provided an explanation about the name being changed makes me want to facepalm :P	19:40
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sivang	DawnFoster: so qa is not gonna need a working group for the meanwhile ?	19:42
DawnFoster	sivang: there is a QA group in the project structure. We don't need a separate working group, since people can just participate in the project	19:43
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GAN900	Termana, sorry, at work.	19:43
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CosmoHill	sod it	19:44
CosmoHill	no nvidia for you	19:44
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Termana	GAN900, hehe no problem :P	19:44
GAN900	DawnFoster, the whole arrangement is super confusing.	19:44
DawnFoster	http://meego.com/sites/all/files/MeeGoDevStructureTSG_May5.pdf	19:44
sivang	DawnFoster: where can i read or join this group ?	19:44
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GAN900	DawnFoster, a nice organization overview explanation page would work wonders.	19:44
DawnFoster	the TSG is still in the process of defining the details behind the structure and adding names to it.	19:44
odin_	meck-it-uup-az-yer-goer-along	19:45
DawnFoster	as soon as they have more details behind the structure, it will get easier to participate, since we have names of people to contact to volunteer help	19:45
GAN900	DawnFoster, how about something not-PDF?	19:45
odin_	hmm maybe a Yorkshire accent doesn't translate that well on IRC	19:45
DawnFoster	GAN900: as soon as we have more details, we'll get something better posted	19:45
DawnFoster	I can't post what hasn't been defined :)	19:46
sivang	DawnFoster: so that i closed stuff so far ?	19:46
odin_	but people are ready to QA it (the stuff that is not defined :)	19:46
DawnFoster	sivang: I don't understand your question.	19:47
DawnFoster	People can do QA right now and submit bugs to bugzilla	19:47
odin_	sorry I was being flippant with their eagerness	19:48
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sivang	DawnFoster: that is alwys true so what will the qa group do ?	19:48
sivang	DawnFoster: i mean cater for govenece ?	19:49
sivang	err	19:49
sivang	DawnFoster: i will follow on the pdf	19:49
DawnFoster	sivang: My point is that once we get the project structure defined with names, you can talk to the people responsible for QA and coordinate efforts under the project - we don't need a separate working group for things that can be done in the project.	19:50
DawnFoster	The TSG is working hard to define the structure right now.	19:50
sivang	it is hard to irssi from the tablet :-)	19:51
sivang	DawnFoster: that is an open process the definitions ?	19:52
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sivang	DawnFoster: be back later	19:53
DawnFoster	sivang: I recommend reading through the logs / minutes from the past few TSG meetings. The project structure falls under TGS	19:53
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gour	after seeing so many posts in different (non meego) forums about attempt to run MeeGO UI under vbox, i think it would be nice if someone can add some FAQ to the wiki to save people's time, either saying "It's not possible!" or explaining how to do it...	19:55
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gour	many are coming with the moblin experience and the present situation is, imho, quite bad PR for meego	19:56
arjan	I'm surprised moblin ran under vbox	19:56
arjan	we never got that working ourselves	19:56
mindfaq	it never worked for me, too	19:57
arjan	and I don't see anything we changed to break that either	19:57
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mindfaq	ubuntu's moblin remix may have worked though	19:58
gour	using moblin under vbox was quite straightforward	19:58
gour	no magic, except booting as 'init 3' and manually launching startx	19:59
* gour was using moblin 2.1		19:59
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DawnFoster	gour: I'm working on a FAQ	20:01
DawnFoster	http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_FAQ	20:01
DawnFoster	it still needs a ton of work	20:01
gour	DawnFoster: thanks a lot...it will be very much appreciated	20:01
DawnFoster	I'm waiting to post it until I get the answers in better shape	20:01
DawnFoster	people are free to contribute to it :)	20:01
* pupnik looks		20:02
arjan	gour: I'm surprised startx worked	20:02
arjan	we've never used that	20:02
arjan	we only use the uxlaunch-from-init method	20:02
gour	arjan: it was widely posted	20:02
arjan	(either moblin or meego)	20:02
arjan	I'm also baffled as to why rl5 wouldn't work, and this would work	20:03
arjan	other than this being run as root I suppose	20:03
arjan	while the X server by default is not setuid-root	20:03
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gour	arjan: this is 2nd google hit 'running moblin virtualbox' - http://blog.bobpeers.com/2009/05/04/running-moblin-in-virtualbox/	20:04
mindfaq	which is pretty nice that way	20:04
arjan	I suspect that on vbox, you need your X running as root	20:05
arjan	so a chmod +s /usr/bin/Xorg might be a hard requirement	20:05
gour	...and that's why meego-1.0 is bitter experience	20:05
gour	arjan: i can boot meego as init 3 and log as root...i also built guestadditions (opengl stuff etc.), but no further luck	20:06
gour	the last message in the forum thread says: "I suspect the Moblin graphic drivers are incompatible with the OpenGL kernel module that is built by the Guest Additions" can any meego dev confirm it?	20:07
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GAN900	DawnFoster, hopefully that's RSN.	20:09
DawnFoster	RSN?	20:09
GAN900	DawnFoster, lot of enthusiasm floating right out the window because of that lack right now.	20:09
GAN900	Real Soon Now	20:10
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DawnFoster	GAN900: I don't have a lot of control over how soon it gets done. I can say that I have been a complete pain & have been pushing hard to get this done soon.	20:11
DawnFoster	I know that we needed this months ago & the TSG does too.	20:11
DawnFoster	it just takes time unfortunately	20:11
GAN900	OK then	20:11
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arjan	gour: I don't think we have anything incompatible	20:22
arjan	we use a pretty much unpatches X 1.8 and Mesa	20:22
CosmoHill	The lastest nvidia drivers don't support X 1.8 :(	20:23
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arjan	X 1.8 got released like in March or before that	20:23
arjan	they're .. late if they don't support that	20:23
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gour	arjan: well, the fact is that i still did not find a post how to do it	20:25
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gour	arjan: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=2702 thread is quite long wiht proper answers...	20:26
gour	if for some devs it is known fact that meego & vbox are 'no go', it would be nice to have it posted somewhere	20:27
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mindfaq	CosmoHill: nvidia does support x-server 1.8	20:29
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CosmoHill	really?	20:29
mindfaq	yep	20:29
CosmoHill	what about nvidia-xorg-config?	20:29
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mindfaq	what do you mean?	20:30
* gour is going to stop wasting time trying to run meego under vbox		20:30
mindfaq	support for 1.8 x-server is offical since 195.36.24	20:30
mindfaq	it did work before though by adding "ignoreABI" to xorg.conf	20:31
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* mindfaq hopes that nouveau can keep its high speed of progress		20:36
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* CosmoHill hopes someone can get nvidia support on meego		20:44
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mindfaq	with nouveau enhancing its 3d support that's very likely to happen	20:45
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* gour would be happy with vbox support in order to be able to use meego under VM for development and real machine for usage		21:01
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odin_	gour, ah a thought... what CPUs can Vbox emulate... does it emulate the SSSE3 features ?	21:30
gour	odin_: if moblin was working...	21:30
odin_	gour, this is a new CPUID bit for a feature set found in only the newest CPUs	21:31
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gour	odin_: check last post in http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=2702	21:32
odin_	unfortunately I do not know the history of Moblin, to know, but just because Moblin worked (and my have targetted i386) doesn't mean the current MeeGo Intel spin works on the same hardware, I can only advise you complain to your vendor if they have hung you out to dry support wise	21:32
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arjan	"newest"... ssse3 cpus were shipping in mid 2006 already	21:33
arjan	like 4 years ago	21:33
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arjan	moblin targeted the same set of cpus (core2/atom) btw	21:33
* gour has i7		21:33
arjan	i7 is VROOOOOM :)	21:34
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CosmoHill	I read that as 17	21:34
arjan	meego on my i7 is fast	21:34
* gour has ati		21:34
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mindfaq	there isn't any way to run meego on LGA1366 based i7 cpus, right?	21:35
gour	no meego under vbox is shame...people are speaking about geemo :-(	21:35
odin_	does core2 have it ? I did not think it did, I have i7(2.8)+ati too, got it a few weeks ago	21:35
arjan	core2 and all later cpus from intel have ssse3	21:35
CosmoHill	you can run it on a core 2 but only if you have intel graphics	21:35
arjan	mindfaq: if you have workig/supported graphics .. works fine ;)	21:36
mindfaq	there is no way to get intel graphics with LGA1366 ;)	21:36
arjan	my i7 has a lame matrox card that is slower in 3D than software rendering	21:36
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arjan	but then I mostly use it in runlevel 3 for building stuff	21:36
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odin_	I am looking at my servers, HP DL360/380G5, less than 2 years old, they dont have ssse3 aka TNI/MNI, but have 64bit+ (but they do have sse3 aka PNI)	21:37
arjan	odin_: what cpu is in them?	21:37
thiago_home	arjan: what isn't fast on i7?	21:37
CosmoHill	thiago_home: vista?	21:37
odin_	E5440/E5505	21:37
mindfaq	aes	21:37
odin_	opps E5440/E5405, AES (aka ANI) is new as well	21:38
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odin_	dont confuse SSE3 (PNI) with SSSE3 (TNI/MNI), yes sure Core2 and cpus newer than 2006 or so, had SSE3 but not SSSE3	21:39
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arjan	core2 has ssse3	21:40
mindfaq	PNI was available in 2006 athlon 64	21:40
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arjan	please don't spread that misinformation	21:40
mindfaq	so core 2 will have it	21:40
arjan	in fact we use -march=core2 as compiler flag ;)	21:40
arjan	basically we anchored on the core2 instruction set	21:40
odin_	well yes, you'd expect to be able to use -march=core2 as a compiler flag on a core2 !	21:40
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arjan	and atom instruction set is the core2 one (plus to instructions we don't use anyway)	21:41
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odin_	what is your chip ID ? I looked up a Core2 earlier and could not find info on SSSE3 (it did not have AES the one I looked at)	21:41
arjan	AES is a different beast	21:41
arjan	AES in SSE 4.2	21:41
arjan	not ssse3	21:41
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mindfaq	the new aes instructions are only available in recent 32 nm cpus	21:42
* CosmoHill hides his P4 in shame		21:42
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CosmoHill	I don't even have HT	21:43
* mindfaq hopes that next-gen atom will incorporate AES NI		21:44
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CosmoHill	AES is encryption related right?	21:45
mindfaq	yes	21:45
CosmoHill	cool :)	21:45
odin_	which of the instructions are really useful for general purpose code ? I am looking at SSE4 and SSSE3 and most are specialized (i.e. not worth breaking an ABI for, if that is indeed what has happened)	21:45
ShadowJK	I thought AES instructions were going away?	21:45
CosmoHill	i wish my server has AES, SFTP puts a huge load on it	21:45
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thiago_home	movbe	21:45
thiago_home	arjan: using -mtune=atom too?	21:46
thiago_home	odin_: SSE4 string functions would be useful	21:46
mindfaq	ever wanted to have a via nano netbook because of their crypto abilities	21:46
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mindfaq	but their graphics drivers...	21:46
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odin_	has 'dd' started reporting summary in GB instead of GiB, the counts always seem too high	21:52
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daniel_	1	22:05
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CosmoHill	0	22:05
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CosmoHill	daniel_: no idea why but you've inspired me to make a text to binary converter	22:13
daniel_	@CosmoHill Should I feel 01100100?	22:14
CosmoHill	maybe	22:14
CosmoHill	let me finish my program and I'll tell you	22:14
daniel_	do you know if meego has a virtual keyboard? Didn't find one when I tried it out...	22:15
TSCHAKeee2	daniel_: the mobile UX does not have a virtual keyboard	22:15
daniel_	K, Thanks	22:16
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CosmoHill	got it :)	22:30
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gour	what do you say about this one - http://techrights.org/2010/05/28/meego-dot-net/ ?	22:45
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arjan	hyperbole	22:48
arjan	mono is not part of meego architecturally	22:49
Stskeeps	gour: anytime anyone touches mono topic, people appear and try to make people hate mono, it's sometimes like those people showing up with banners at funerals of soliders :P	22:49
arjan	it's just pulled in as a dependency for the netbook media player	22:49
arjan	big fscking yawn.	22:49
gour	this http://techrights.org/2010/05/29/shotwell-in-fedora/ is also interesting	22:49
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gour	arjan: quite some stuff in meego are using mono - http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2010/May-27.html	22:50
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gour	Stskeeps: i do not hate mono, but avoid putting it on my desktop since it pulls too many deps	22:51
Stskeeps	and it's reference apps, people/vendors are free to remove them	22:51
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Stskeeps	gour: http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page scares me a bit (i'm not pro or against mono) :P	22:52
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gour	Stskeeps: huh	22:53
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Stskeeps	gour: referring to the main site of the urls refer to	22:53
sivang	DawnFoster: not currently in liberty to go over meeting minutes , but will try to do so during the upcoming weekend.	22:53
arjan	gour: eh no. Only the media player is using mono.	22:54
sivang	arjan: the meego media player?	22:54
arjan	the banshee player in the netbook build	22:54
arjan	(there'll be different media players for other devices)	22:54
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sivang	DawnFoster: liberty == time	22:55
Stskeeps	the good thing about things like meego is that if you don't like the smell of the bakery, you can write something better :P most often people don't go ahead with that 'threat' though :)	22:55
arjan	you can assume that new media players for other devices will be based on the meego touch framework btw	22:55
arjan	(which is a layer on top of Qt to add touch awareness etc)	22:56
sivang	arjan: and not mono as runtime, is the runtime performant enough on devices like N900 ?	22:56
Stskeeps	not sure mono belongs on a n900 like device	22:56
arjan	sivang: I doubt that mono will be deployed on a phone	22:56
ShadowJK	codecs don't run inside the vm anyway	22:56
arjan	we're pulling it in the the netbook media player only	22:56
arjan	not as a core building block	22:56
sivang	arjan: ah k, makes sense.	22:56
TSCHAKeee2	leave it to the reactionary idiots to shout off their mouths	22:56
sivang	(hence my question)	22:56
TSCHAKeee2	whee.	22:56
suihkulokki	there was a mono port for n8x0 and run just fine (like python et all)	22:57
TSCHAKeee2	shake-head	22:57
sivang	suihkulokki: ah , nice.	22:57
ShadowJK	and a half-arsedly written player in mono is probably lighter than N900's thing anyway :)	22:57
Stskeeps	whatever happened to doing things to change the world instead of moaning about the state of the world and doing nothing? :P	22:57
arjan	you can make a big deal out of nothing easily on the internet	22:57
arjan	doesn't mean it's fact based	22:57
Khertan	hum ... it s seems i ve lost x	22:57
sivang	who is doing big deal out of what? another vm, another language, that's all	22:58
TSCHAKeee2	Stskeeps: that went away when the users started outnumbering developers in the free software community...	22:58
sivang	the more choice the better (sometimes!)	22:58
TSCHAKeee2	i do think mono is very shady...but if microsoft pulls the patent card	22:58
TSCHAKeee2	big deal, it's replaced	22:58
TSCHAKeee2	boo $()#@$#@ hoo	22:58
Quu	microsoft deals hitler -card.	22:58
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Stskeeps	i still wonder about liability in terms of what goes into meego, or what's published from meego servers	22:59
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microlith	Stskeeps: nothing probably, MS will go after those who ship it	23:02
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sivang	ShadowJK: I guess so, a lot of stuff in N900 are so heavy.	23:04
ShadowJK	most (all?) python players even respond quicker... :)	23:05
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Khertan_MiGo	I see that the garage is available in Meego ... and a few application in it ... Does this garage is "open" to third developpers ?	23:06
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mindfaq	i wonder if there will be a possibility to run the latest meego development state and get it updated through package management	23:08
DawnFoster	Khertan_MiGo: we're still working out the process to submit apps to the garage, but it will be open to any developers	23:09
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mindfaq	similar like fedora's doing with rawhide	23:09
mindfaq	and debian with sid/unstable	23:09
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microlith	mindfaq: I don't see why not.	23:10
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Khertan_MiGo	DawnFoster: ok ... the question was more a is it available yet ? so i got my answer thx	23:11
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DawnFoster	Khertan_MiGo: You might be interested in this meeting tomorrow where they will be talking more about this process. http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Application_Support	23:15
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Khertan_MiGo	DawnFoster: thx	23:17
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q9c9p	hello	23:36
q9c9p	did anybody tryied to install meego on eeepc 701?	23:36
q9c9p	becuse I cannot :/ 3G of disk are not enough it seems...	23:37
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arjan	q9c9p: it also does not have an atom cpu so it's not going to work	23:52
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q9c9p	arjan: ah, thanks, I missed that, anyway is booting live	23:53
q9c9p	and the atheros from the 701 model is working	23:53
q9c9p	only chromium is not working	23:53
q9c9p	and the battery	23:53
q9c9p	anyway, thanks, then I will look for something else to put on the eee 701	23:53
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