| thiago_home | lcuk: actually, what I meant were the native (x11) and raster graphics engines in Qt | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| thiago_home | they still use X11 for WM | 00:00 |
| arjan | benp_: sure | 00:00 |
| rioch | thiago_home: is it likely that arm11 will ever be supported/provided? | 00:00 |
| thiago_home | rioch: not officially | 00:00 |
| benp_ | arjan: Great. | 00:00 |
| thiago_home | but if people do the work, sure | 00:00 |
| lcuk | why the regression tho - i thought qt was happy on n8x0 | 00:01 |
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| thiago_home | lcuk: Qt is | 00:01 |
| benp_ | One by one: Can I use the meego netbook thingy with multiple users/logins? | 00:01 |
| lcuk | isnt everything based on qt? | 00:01 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: but why says anything about the applications built with it? | 00:01 |
| lcuk | thats like saying my boat is waterproof, till i put it in the ocean | 00:01 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: not yet. Non-Qt apps will be used for some time, maybe forever. Who knows. | 00:01 |
| arjan | benp_: not currently. | 00:01 |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, sure, but qt apps are qt apps? | 00:02 |
| lcuk | and qt works on 8x0 | 00:02 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: they're also native apps | 00:02 |
| arjan | lcuk: there's more than "it uses qt" for apps to work well | 00:02 |
| benp_ | yum is configured "wrong", having two sources that have names that are already taken. Is this well-known? Something to report? | 00:02 |
| arjan | like which compiler options you use etc | 00:02 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: you can use any lib in the system, including OpenGL | 00:02 |
| lcuk | yeah sure arjan | 00:02 |
| thiago_home | besides, Qt has never officially supported Diablo and before | 00:02 |
| lcuk | but using random libraries is tough | 00:02 |
| arjan | benp_: hmmm that was supposed to be fixed | 00:02 |
| lcuk | and stops the qt crossplatformness? | 00:03 |
| lcuk | native qt application can run on windows | 00:03 |
| thiago_home | only if you recompile for Windows | 00:03 |
| thiago_home | that's also another issue | 00:03 |
| benp_ | arjan: Not yet mean "but planned, for sure"? I understand that it won't be that much of a deal for mobiles, but on a netbook my gf and me are using different accounts.. :) | 00:03 |
| thiago_home | and it doesn't work if you use libX11 stuff in your app | 00:03 |
| lcuk | sure - the walled garden | 00:03 |
| arjan | benp_: we're struggling with how to do it properly; we're looking at things like "guest mode" and "kid mode" | 00:04 |
| benp_ | arjan: It started that way on this image. Changed the repository source names manually | 00:04 |
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| benp_ | arjan: Ah, okay. That's a better/deeper solution that I thought of. I was expecting just a simple login manager or something.. | 00:04 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, something like sdl has the same sort of thing | 00:04 |
| arjan | benp_: we found the name thing pretty late, but I know we tried to fix it | 00:04 |
| lcuk | write an sdl game and it can run on the platforms sdl supports | 00:05 |
| lbt | arjan: when you say "we're looking at".... who is looking at it? And where are the discussions? | 00:05 |
| arjan | benp_: login manager... more a "switch user" but yeah | 00:05 |
| rioch | thiago_home: Is it always possible to install this on a device, or does it depend on the device being open in some way (i.e. not locked down)? | 00:05 |
| arjan | lbt: this is the user interaction design team | 00:05 |
| thiago_home | rioch: which device? | 00:05 |
| lbt | arjan: there's a lot of interest in that area | 00:05 |
| lcuk | arjan, are they interacting with anyone publicly? | 00:05 |
| lbt | and I wondered if they'd be a good team to help "out" :) | 00:05 |
| benp_ | arjan: Well.. There should be some password protection (otherwise I really won't use it for social network things and connect it to my accounts). | 00:06 |
| arjan | benp_: there is password protection | 00:06 |
| lbt | arjan: ie set Stskeeps on them | 00:06 |
| arjan | you can set it so that it asks for your password at boot | 00:06 |
| * arjan coded the "lower half" of that stuff | 00:06 | |
| benp_ | arjan: Failed to find that. | 00:06 |
| arjan | but it's done with the screensaver, not with a login manager | 00:06 |
| rioch | thiago_home: I'm speaking hypothically. Can a device prevent me from installing meego? | 00:06 |
| thiago_home | rioch: yes | 00:06 |
| arjan | there's a settings thing for it somewhere | 00:06 |
| thiago_home | rioch: talk to the people who made the device | 00:06 |
| thiago_home | rioch: think of TiVo | 00:06 |
| arjan | (but I didn't code that part of the solution, only the part that actually does the lock) | 00:06 |
| lcuk | benp_, on maemo the one thing i want to do is lock down the entire net aspects - phone sms internet - so my son can play without accidentally phoning finland | 00:07 |
| lcuk | which he has done more than once :| | 00:07 |
| benp_ | lcuk: Hehe | 00:07 |
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| benp_ | lcuk: Looking forward to N810 support, fbtw | 00:07 |
| rioch | thiago_home: ok, thanks for your help. | 00:07 |
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| lcuk | thiago_home, will meego be using the tivo model | 00:08 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: tivo model is a hardware thing | 00:08 |
| lcuk | ie actively prevent installation on alternative hardware | 00:08 |
| thiago_home | meego is softwar only | 00:08 |
| thiago_home | companies put meego on their devices, you have to talk to those companies | 00:08 |
| thiago_home | I *think* the Nokia devices will be flashable | 00:08 |
| thiago_home | they have been so far | 00:08 |
| benp_ | Another thing that struck me: What's this "Catalog" thing? Seems - uhm, I hope I offend no one in here - ugly and I fail to understand the difference between the other program to add/remove packages (looks like synaptic, but I understand this is rpm based) | 00:09 |
| lcuk | but can people make a new image with (for instance) different software and flash it on | 00:09 |
| lcuk | ie remove/change browser but still have full media player usage | 00:10 |
| arjan | benp_: please use the garage app | 00:10 |
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| arjan | the "low level" install/remove app is pretty crappy if you ask me | 00:10 |
| benp_ | lcuk: For me the main point is not cost, but privacy. I share a netbook with family and friends. Even in my family it's not ok to read/share mail or IM accounts etc. | 00:10 |
| lcuk | benp_, technically your entire family should have their own device but i see your point | 00:11 |
| lcuk | i have a floating n810 with games etc | 00:11 |
| lcuk | but i dont share my phone regularly | 00:11 |
| benp_ | arjan: Hmm.. Looked so much more familiar (see above, like synaptic). Garage looks like it was hand-drawn. Yesterday. And has no contents. Sorry - that's the ugliest part of the image I found so far. | 00:11 |
| benp_ | lcuk: Technically that's not correct. :) This is not a phone, this is a EeePc :) | 00:12 |
| arjan | it's more about "personal device" | 00:12 |
| arjan | and we need ways to share a "personal device" safely | 00:12 |
| arjan | it's not ... trivial | 00:12 |
| lcuk | benp_, sure, even more differenter then! | 00:12 |
| benp_ | Yep, I understand that. | 00:12 |
| arjan | share-with-kid is different to show-off-to-friends :0 | 00:13 |
| lcuk | arjan, technically with full user accounts it is | 00:13 |
| arjan | lcuk: full user accounts are not a good solution per se | 00:13 |
| pupnik | the different ux concept is ok. but how much space / market is there really for meeego on netbooks | 00:13 |
| lcuk | arjan, ? | 00:13 |
| arjan | they're a component to the solution, but they're not the whole part of it | 00:13 |
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| lcuk | thats intruiging | 00:13 |
| pupnik | when a netbook is essentially a laptop. | 00:13 |
| lcuk | yeah, what else do you need than user accounts? | 00:14 |
| arjan | lcuk: you have different levels of user. "owner" "kids that whine in the back of the car" | 00:14 |
| lcuk | /home/arjan | 00:14 |
| lcuk | /home/gary | 00:14 |
| benp_ | pupnik: I'd love to go for it on a netbook (but install more software for me) | 00:14 |
| arjan | you need well defined roles to match those accounts, since you the owner want not all users to have the same full access | 00:14 |
| lcuk | arjan, isnt this a solved problem for like eons? | 00:14 |
| benp_ | pupnik: For me a netbook is a device for online services mostly (and more, not part of meego by default) | 00:15 |
| lcuk | even windows has multiuser | 00:15 |
| arjan | lcuk: having multiple accounts isn't the hard part. how to manage those accounts, how to let them share, how to limit some of them in various ways, is there it gets "fun" | 00:15 |
| pupnik | benp_: what do you want netbook meego to do differently than linux or win7 | 00:15 |
| benp_ | But for now it's not ready for my (personal, irrelevant) usecase. Multiuser support with password protection, a PDF client that doesn't look out of place and access to more "standard" packages (word processor, monodevelop, stuff) | 00:16 |
| arjan | pupnik: on your earlier question. I think that "meego on netbook" alone does not make sense commercially | 00:16 |
| lcuk | arjan, how do you define the role of a single user machine? you let them install apps they want and set the experience to them | 00:16 |
| arjan | pupnik: but it is part of a bigger suite, with meego-on-phones, meego-on-tablets etc... and as part of a whole suite it has value | 00:16 |
| arjan | since it means different types of devices share concepts and have some degree of compatibility, and can complement and add value to eachother | 00:17 |
| benp_ | pupnik: Deep and good integration of online services (chat, social networks, mail..) | 00:18 |
| pupnik | ah good answers - ty | 00:18 |
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| hylix_ | hi all | 00:18 |
| benp_ | pupnik: With a simple (think non-technical friends) and beautiful UI/UX/whatever | 00:18 |
| hylix_ | do you know if its possible to build meego from sources by MIC to make my pc work with meego ? | 00:19 |
| arjan | hylix_: MIC does not build sources | 00:19 |
| arjan | but.. what do you actually want to do | 00:20 |
| hylix_ | ah nice :( | 00:20 |
| arjan | ? | 00:20 |
| hylix_ | arjan: i have a eeepc900 (not 901) and meego dont works on it | 00:20 |
| hylix_ | but i really want too have meego on my pc :) | 00:20 |
| hylix_ | to* | 00:20 |
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| s13ge | :P | 00:21 |
| s13ge | does meego work on 1101HA? | 00:21 |
| hylix_ | maybe | 00:21 |
| hylix_ | if its an atom | 00:21 |
| s13ge | yes it is | 00:21 |
| hylix_ | i think its ok | 00:21 |
| arjan | and has gma950 or so graphics | 00:22 |
| hylix_ | but for me :'( | 00:22 |
| arjan | and not gma500 | 00:22 |
| s13ge | GMA500 :) | 00:22 |
| s13ge | so its not working.. | 00:22 |
| arjan | nope | 00:22 |
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| s13ge | fucking intel | 00:22 |
| arjan | sadly that device has no linux support from the hardware vendor | 00:22 |
| hylix_ | is there a way to compile meego ? | 00:22 |
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| arjan | hylix_: yes you can compile it yourself. however it's not a small task.... | 00:22 |
| hylix_ | i mean simple | 00:23 |
| thiago_home | hylix_: have you ever built a linux distribution from scratch? | 00:23 |
| hylix_ | like make | 00:23 |
| s13ge | i have linux on my 1101HA, but videocard doesn't work very well... | 00:23 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 laughs | 00:23 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | make | 00:23 |
| hylix_ | thiago_home: i dont want to reinvant the wheel | 00:23 |
| lcuk | dont you need to type make all? | 00:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | hoo boy, that's a good one. | 00:23 |
| hylix_ | reinvent* | 00:23 |
| arjan | hylix_: it's a little more involved than that. | 00:23 |
| pupnik | yes there is a lot to dso to make linux as slick as OSX for e.g. | 00:23 |
| hylix_ | mmh | 00:24 |
| hylix_ | then what do i do ? | 00:24 |
| hylix_ | (and why not make a i686 standard distro ?) | 00:25 |
| lcuk | because the sky isn't green | 00:26 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:27 |
| hylix_ | lcuk: its relative | 00:27 |
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| lcuk | sure | 00:27 |
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| lcuk | theres plenty of lively discussion on this very topic anyway | 00:27 |
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| lcuk | general conclusion is yeah no real technical reason (especially since the bigger cpus will be generally faster) | 00:28 |
| arjan | hylix_: optimizing for atom gives performance. | 00:28 |
| arjan | it's that simple. | 00:28 |
| arjan | so if someone else wants to build the thing for pre-atom, they can do that | 00:28 |
| hylix_ | arjan: a lot or just a litle ? | 00:28 |
| arjan | but my estimate of doing that is $50k/year in cost | 00:28 |
| arjan | hylix_: around 10% to 15% | 00:29 |
| arjan | (and 10% in performance is also 10% in power generally) | 00:29 |
| hylix_ | hum ok | 00:29 |
| hylix_ | then i just have to kill myself :( | 00:30 |
| lcuk | hylix_, if its anything like moblin someone will put it ontop of ubuntu anyway | 00:30 |
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| arjan | it's the same ask asking the arm guys who compile for armv7 and not armv5 | 00:31 |
| hylix_ | arjan: maybe :) | 00:31 |
| arjan | lcuk: : define "it" | 00:31 |
| thiago_home | the big difference is fp | 00:31 |
| thiago_home | in both, actually | 00:31 |
| thiago_home | ABI-changing | 00:31 |
| hylix_ | arjan: but i dont ask i just looking for a way to do it alone | 00:31 |
| arjan | slaine, who's here on weekdays, I think has done it before | 00:32 |
| lcuk | arjan, not really, there are grave differences - if it is just cpu stuff, sure it will all be happy, but the soc includes the entire graphics card which doesnt exist | 00:32 |
| lcuk | same binary runs on 8x0 and 900 happily | 00:32 |
| hylix_ | lcuk: yes | 00:32 |
| arjan | yeah but the 900 stuff is compiled for the 900 cpu | 00:32 |
| arjan | for that extra 10% performance | 00:32 |
| lcuk | nahh | 00:32 |
| arjan | if not 15% | 00:32 |
| lcuk | i used to build binaries quite happily for my 810 | 00:32 |
| lcuk | and copy directly to 900 | 00:32 |
| arjan | I know it runs on 900 | 00:32 |
| arjan | I'm just pointing out that nokia doesnt' build the n900 OS and core stuff like that | 00:33 |
| thiago_home | arjan: not really. The Fremantle binaries are built for the armv6 arch with soft-fp ABI | 00:33 |
| hylix_ | i ma case there is just a cpu problem | 00:33 |
| thiago_home | but it does use the neon chip | 00:33 |
| lcuk | arjan, "it" http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-moblin-remix/releases/9.10/release/ | 00:35 |
| lcuk | runs on pretty much everything x86, including intels amds, and can even be used on the new macs | 00:36 |
| hylix_ | hum | 00:37 |
| lcuk | so why cant the same be available direct for meego netbook? | 00:37 |
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| arjan | it can. | 00:38 |
| arjan | please do the work ;) | 00:38 |
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| arjan | (and provide the build servers etc) | 00:38 |
| ml-mobile | I think MeeGo needs more competing interests | 00:39 |
| arjan | maybe your employer wants to fund the $50k/year | 00:39 |
| arjan | .... since mine sure doesn't want to spend the 50 grand on this | 00:39 |
| lcuk | im not capable, but if canonical did it before im sure they can again | 00:39 |
| * pupnik whispers "business case" | 00:39 | |
| lcuk | and arjan in open source, it does not take 50k | 00:40 |
| lcuk | it takes one determined individual | 00:40 |
| thiago_home | canonical is still doing something meego | 00:40 |
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| thiago_home | they're not very pleased, but they're doing it | 00:40 |
| arjan | lcuk: it takes about 50k in terms of build hardware and datacenter space | 00:40 |
| arjan | I did not count people time | 00:40 |
| lcuk | nope, it takes 1 person with 1 machine and some spare time | 00:40 |
| arjan | after the fact maybe. | 00:40 |
| lcuk | linux on toasters | 00:40 |
| lcuk | linux on xbox | 00:41 |
| lcuk | linux on XXXXXXX | 00:41 |
| lcuk | do not underestimate the community | 00:41 |
| arjan | but not during development of a distro; there you need a fast enough build result so that things aren't helt back | 00:41 |
| arjan | I do not underestimate the community | 00:41 |
| arjan | I see what kind of setup we need for what is produced right now | 00:41 |
| arjan | and how it scales in terms of adding arm and such | 00:41 |
| lcuk | sure, and theres people out there twiddling their thumbs | 00:41 |
| arjan | and how many machines we had to add | 00:41 |
| lcuk | jebba was in here recently offering to do it | 00:42 |
| arjan | and I'm more than halving that for this effort | 00:42 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | although | 00:42 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oops wrong window | 00:42 |
| arjan | lcuk: there's NOTHING stopping him. | 00:42 |
| lcuk | there was at the time - the code wasnt up :p | 00:42 |
| mindfaq | at least the sdk simulator needs a solution to run without intel gma chipsets imho | 00:42 |
| arjan | hehe | 00:42 |
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| lcuk | arjan, more difficult than recompiling would be something like Stskeeps attempted with mer - to actually rebuild maemo using sometimes altnerative apps | 00:45 |
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| tmzt | mindfaq: I wonder what adding 2d intel support to qemu would entail | 00:45 |
| tmzt | they've used the same emulated card (cirrus?) for years | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | because that cirrus card has documentation and is well known :) | 00:48 |
| mindfaq | yes, cirrus it was | 00:49 |
| ShadowJK | iirc someone was at some point writing opensource bios for that hw :) | 00:49 |
| mindfaq | are they planning to include other virtual graphics devices? | 00:49 |
| mindfaq | think i read something on fedora's wiki | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | I suspect it'd be easier to invent your own nonexistant graphics card, and then write drivers for it on every os | 00:50 |
| tmzt | qfx? | 00:50 |
| mindfaq | like innotek did with virtualbox? | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | than to figure out enough of how existing cards work in order to emulate them.. | 00:51 |
| mindfaq | as long as the drivers go into the kernel/xorg, that'd be fine | 00:51 |
| mindfaq | with virtualbox, from time to time they are lacking support for recent x-servers | 00:52 |
| mindfaq | would it be possible to run the meego sdk simulator on nvidia graphics hardware through xephyr if one would drop the nvidia GL libs into the meego chroot? | 00:58 |
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| pupnik | mindfaq: for sure if you dont use gl | 01:16 |
| pupnik | :) | 01:16 |
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| Monotoko | hiya guys...telepathy keeps crashing when im trying to IM...afterwards, it wont let me open any new IM windows | 01:47 |
| Monotoko | without a reset | 01:47 |
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| sivang | Monotoko: try to rebuild telepathy with debugging informaiton and run it through GDB | 02:16 |
| sivang | gdb | 02:16 |
| * sivang -< sleep | 02:17 | |
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| mamoul | hey budz | 03:14 |
| mamoul | I'm on my cute meego netbook now | 03:14 |
| mamoul | this is interesting | 03:15 |
| mamoul | for some reason the system update doesn't work | 03:15 |
| mamoul | it says something like invalid key | 03:15 |
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| neopsis | can we install meego on vmware? | 04:38 |
| pupnik | yes | 04:38 |
| neopsis | cool :D | 04:39 |
| neopsis | try it now :D | 04:39 |
| pupnik | later. interested in handheld ux | 04:49 |
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| arjan | no | 04:51 |
| arjan | meego/netbook does not work (well) on vmware or any current virtual machine | 04:51 |
| arjan | due to the need for fast 3D graphics | 04:52 |
| GAN900 | arjan, VMWare does Aero. | 04:52 |
| GAN900 | And Quartz, for that matter, now. | 04:52 |
| arjan | where's the (open source) linux 3d driver for it? | 04:53 |
| arjan | and does it need things like foul smelling kernel patches? | 04:53 |
| arjan | it'd be nice to have at least one virtual machine solution | 04:54 |
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| neopsis | you guys can give me any recommendation on where to start for development? | 04:59 |
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| arjan | neopsis: qtdesigner is a very nice start | 05:08 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | okay, i'm gonna wipe this damn joggler | 05:10 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the factory OS is uuuuuuuuuselessss :P | 05:10 |
| neopsis | arjan: is there any tutorial website for qt designer? | 05:12 |
| arjan | http://meego.com/developers/meego-developer-story-0 | 05:12 |
| arjan | I'm not involved in the sdk part of this much | 05:12 |
| arjan | mostly working on the OS itself | 05:12 |
| arjan | but there's a bunch of guys who're working on the SDK + documentation | 05:13 |
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| Arizona | is the Meego chnnel live? And s there anyone here? | 06:57 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yes. although most of the developers are t "awake" at the moment. | 06:58 |
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| * arjan is just hacking some Qt code ;) | 07:02 | |
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| Arizona | I've got a Asus 900 netbook, a cheap woot purchased one with a celeron instead of Atom processor, and no camera. I've been putting on quite a few small OSes on it and am currently downloading meego to see what you've got. Does Meego work on eee Netbooks? | 07:04 |
| Arizona | What works and what does not? | 07:04 |
| Arizona | The download still has another estimated hour to go. | 07:05 |
| Arizona | Is there any support for the wifi chipset in the EEE Pcs? | 07:06 |
| arjan | unfortunately, the meego build you download needs an Atom or Core2 or so processor | 07:06 |
| arjan | the 900 does not work | 07:06 |
| arjan | the 900A does work | 07:06 |
| arjan | but not the celeron one | 07:06 |
| Arizona | OK, I guess I'll stop the download. thanks for the info! | 07:08 |
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| * arjan runs valgrind on my Qt app | 07:35 | |
| arjan | oh my. | 07:35 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | hahahaha | 07:37 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ...one week later.... | 07:37 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh look, a pixel | 07:37 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :D | 07:37 |
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| * TSCHAKeee2 is making a dev chroot for his joggler orbiter work | 07:39 | |
| arjan | TSCHAK: more like.. tons of memory leaks | 07:48 |
| TSCHAK | heheh | 07:48 |
| TSCHAK | arjan, are the bits of code for the current meego netbook UX still sitting over in moblin's repository? | 07:49 |
| arjan | they're moving over tuesday | 07:49 |
| TSCHAK | ok. | 07:49 |
| arjan | we kinda missed them in the release plan | 07:49 |
| arjan | and when we realized that friday it was too late to do a proper move | 07:49 |
| TSCHAK | oops. | 07:49 |
| arjan | we want to move them while preserving branches and such | 07:49 |
| arjan | which means it's not a trivial "git push and be done with it" | 07:50 |
| TSCHAK | yeah, i'm aware.. | 07:50 |
| TSCHAK | :/ | 07:50 |
| TSCHAK | arjan, do you know what's being used as the window manager for the handset UX side of things? | 07:50 |
| arjan | the meego touch one | 07:51 |
| arjan | I think it's called mcompositor or something | 07:51 |
| TSCHAK | okay. | 07:51 |
| TSCHAK | interesting. | 07:51 |
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| vikithakar | Is there any way to use Meego on my desktop? | 08:56 |
| arjan | if you have intel graphics gpu.. then yes | 08:58 |
| * arjan does it all the time ;) | 08:58 | |
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| Corsac | I should try it, but I'm not sure celeron has the needed bits :) | 09:01 |
| arjan | check for ssse3 in /proc/cpuinfo | 09:01 |
| Corsac | hmhm though it's intel64 compatible, so... | 09:02 |
| Corsac | nop, sse, sse2 but no sse3 | 09:03 |
| Corsac | crappy cpu | 09:03 |
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| tmzt | 64bit celeron | 09:11 |
| tmzt | ? | 09:11 |
| Corsac | yeah | 09:11 |
| Corsac | model name: Intel(R) Celeron(R) D CPU 3.20GHz | 09:11 |
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| villemv | just got "meego platform bug jar in email" | 09:33 |
| villemv | it seems to have bugs for handheld ux as well | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | open development is great, isn't it? :) | 09:33 |
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| villemv | did I miss an announcement somewhere? :) | 09:34 |
| Stskeeps | nah, just that i think it's one of those areas that weren't closed off | 09:34 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 facepalms | 09:34 | |
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| Stskeeps | situation should hopefully change soon | 09:35 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 does a rain dance | 09:35 | |
| * TSCHAKeee2 sacrifices a goat | 09:35 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | hey, maybe it'll help | 09:35 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | nothing else has at this point | 09:35 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P :) | 09:35 |
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| villemv | at this point, if I was to look for information about MeeGo, it seems bugzilla is the place to go | 09:39 |
| villemv | you can "deduce" tons of stuff from the bugs | 09:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | *nod* | 09:39 |
| villemv | (if one was not inclined to wait, that is) | 09:39 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 wants to get his hands on mcompositor | 09:40 | |
| villemv | TSCHAKeee2: mcompositor is on gitorious, right? | 09:40 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | is it? | 09:40 |
| villemv | i think so | 09:40 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i couldn't find it | 09:40 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | hm ok | 09:40 |
| villemv | http://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework/duicompositor | 09:41 |
| tmzt | what is the dui? | 09:41 |
| villemv | old name for meegotough | 09:41 |
| villemv | touch | 09:41 |
| villemv | directui | 09:41 |
| tmzt | this is the component that requires 3d hardware? | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | well, not so much required but is optimized on top of | 09:42 |
| villemv | well, it does use opengl, yes | 09:42 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | hm it looks like it's over in..yeah. | 09:43 |
| tmzt | doesn't use TFP? | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | compositor might i guess | 09:43 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | is the plan for meego touch to still use x, i wonder... | 09:43 |
| villemv | yes | 09:43 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | guess i will just rifle through the code | 09:43 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | ok | 09:43 |
| tmzt | let's hope, everybody else is moving to android display system | 09:44 |
| villemv | meegotouch uses normal X11 qt | 09:44 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | android display system...heh. | 09:44 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | openmax on a framebuffer | 09:44 |
| tmzt | android display system isn't openmax | 09:45 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh ok | 09:46 |
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| fabo | Corsac: pykickstart accepted on Debian archive. | 09:58 |
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| kisse | is anyone awake? | 10:22 |
| Stskeeps | sortof | 10:23 |
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| kisse | is there ANY possible way to configure moblin-power-icon at all? | 10:24 |
| kisse | it's like, someone decided that it was ok to dictate that everyone should have their machine enter sleep mode when they shut their lid | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | mm, forum.meego.com might be of help | 10:27 |
| kisse | I posted there, no one even responded at all about it | 10:27 |
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| kisse | They like... ignore it, like it's some sort of horrible plague item | 10:28 |
| kisse | ... personally, I don't blame them... as it seems to be and impossible thing that I'm asking for | 10:28 |
| kisse | it's like asking someone to willingly bash their head against the world, because I'm tired of doing so myself | 10:28 |
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| Stskeeps | next step is meego-dev mailing list, indicating the problem, or submitting it asa bug | 10:29 |
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| kisse | Stskeeps: I think a bug is a good call | 10:36 |
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| kisse | v_v ... god... meego's link to create a bugzilla account returns "Access Denied" | 10:37 |
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| Stskeeps | shouldn't | 10:38 |
| kisse | This is seriously so frustrating, because I prefer Meego so much, that I'm willing to boot into Win7 to leave my IM on while my lid is closed while I sleep | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | try with your meego.com login on bugzilla | 10:39 |
| kisse | kk | 10:39 |
| kisse | yep, that worked :) | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | 'access denied' is such a horrid message :) | 10:39 |
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| kisse | I'm too worn out right now... my first instinct is to post a horrible hate and obscenity filled bug laden with arrogant and self-righteous indignity.... | 10:42 |
| kisse | which is ENTIRELY not lady-like | 10:44 |
| kisse | heh | 10:44 |
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| Stskeeps | well, you're sending bugs to people who are humans too, so be specific and straightforward, that makes your bug be responded to better :P | 10:45 |
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| Vortiago | kisse, try editing the file /etc/acpi/events/lid.conf | 10:48 |
| Corsac | fabo: cool | 10:48 |
| Vortiago | As I understand it that's the file being run when you close the lid | 10:49 |
| kisse | Vortiago: I emptied out the entire lid.sh file already. The problem is that moblin-power-icon is actually doing the lid event | 10:49 |
| Vortiago | oh | 10:49 |
| kisse | the lid.sh runs as well, but it pretty much doesn't do anything at all, because moblin-power-icon is running | 10:49 |
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| gour | morning | 11:08 |
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| gour | atm, meego does not work under vm (vbox) as moblin did, so the question is if it's on todo list or one has to buy new hardware to taste it? | 11:09 |
| thiago | the problem is opengl | 11:11 |
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| gour | thiago: so, no solution on the horizon? | 11:25 |
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| thiago | gour: not that I know of | 11:28 |
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| gour | too bad...we had high hopes about the prospect of meego development based on moblin :-/ | 11:29 |
| gour | it is really limiting that one needs intel graphic in order to be able to do pc development | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | gour: handset ux or netbook ux? | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | gour: i think it's actually more about that people should set up guides how to make .ks'es containing nvidia, virtualbox, etc | 11:30 |
| gour | Stskeeps: i tried to install meego-netbook | 11:31 |
| Tm_T | Stskeeps: the idea of copying the related files from host system sounds a reasonable solution to me if it works | 11:31 |
| gour | Stskeeps: i can only see twm in meego under vbox :-( | 11:31 |
| gour | with moblin it was dl & play | 11:32 |
| kisse | meego kind of had a bit of a radical rewrite... enough to lose some previous features :( | 11:32 |
| gour | true...but, imho, the current release hardly deserves 1.0 tag | 11:33 |
| Tm_T | how so? | 11:33 |
| * Tm_T thinks people stares too much those numbers | 11:34 | |
| gour | ..considering "this release provides developers with a stable core foundation for application development "... | 11:34 |
| gour | one needs special hardware in order to even see how meego looks | 11:34 |
| gour | Tm_T: check some of the comments in http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=202 | 11:35 |
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| pupnik | runs on a lenovo x61 and S10-2 as well | 11:41 |
| gour | people wants running in VM | 11:42 |
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| Stskeeps | gour: grab mic2 and see if you can drop virtual box extensions into the meego image | 11:42 |
| gour | Stskeeps: ok. will try | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | i believe meego can't include them by default since they're closed source | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | (to my best knowledge) | 11:44 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 11:45 |
| * timeless_mbp is pretty sure the guest additions are open source for linux | 11:45 | |
| timeless_mbp | for windows they're closed | 11:45 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc i installed guest additions into moblin w/o significant issue (one bug + patch @ virtualbox.org) | 11:45 |
| srs2k | hi there. where can i ask a question about meego setup? | 11:46 |
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| Stskeeps | define 'setup' | 11:46 |
| Jartza | yeah, without getting meego to run in virtualbox etc. it's quite useless & pointless at least for me | 11:47 |
| Jartza | I don't want to use my netbook for development :P | 11:47 |
| timeless_mbp | Jartza: meego development isn't quite selfhosted | 11:47 |
| timeless_mbp | it's generally done using OBS | 11:47 |
| Jartza | I know | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | which is not really the same thing... | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | if you mean testing, ... | 11:48 |
| Jartza | but for "real life testing" I'd like to run my apps in "real meego" | 11:48 |
| Jartza | and yes, I count testing as a part of development :) | 11:48 |
| srs2k | i've downloaded meego image and want to put it on flash drive where grub4dos installed. which lines i need to write in 'menu.lst'? | 11:49 |
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| mindThomas | any guys from UK in here? | 11:54 |
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| Stskeeps | mindThomas: phrasing it like you're not seeking out a date might be better :) | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | like adding why you are looking for UK people | 11:55 |
| sivang | Good Morning to all the soggy cats. | 11:58 |
| sivang | :) | 11:58 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: hehe | 11:58 |
| sivang | there are a couple | 11:58 |
| sivang | (UKpeople) | 11:58 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: don't feed the ignorant, let Stskeeps teach them to fish | 11:59 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: sure sure , sorry :) | 11:59 |
| sivang | on a related note, anybody to offer a place to crash in London between the 15th and 17th of September? O:-) | 11:59 |
| sivang | I'll bring in good mood beer and snacks :) | 12:00 |
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| spide | preferably a hot female. :) | 12:00 |
| sivang | spide: my sister (20 year old) will accompany me | 12:00 |
| Termana | If shes blonde, spide has a room | 12:01 |
| Termana | :P | 12:01 |
| sivang | haha | 12:01 |
| spide | sivang: adding a link to a pic of your sister might add to offers. | 12:01 |
| sivang | so shovenistic | 12:01 |
| spide | not from uk sorry :( | 12:01 |
| sivang | :) | 12:01 |
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| Myrtti | ... | 12:04 |
| Myrtti | you guys manage to disappoint me almost every day. Good Job. | 12:05 |
| kisse | sivang: chauvanistic* | 12:06 |
| sivang | kisse: right , I should know this came from French :-p | 12:06 |
| kisse | ah... chauvinist* | 12:06 |
| sivang | Myrtti: in what way? | 12:06 |
| kisse | Ami english drops so much vowel quality from unstressed syllables :( | 12:06 |
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| Myrtti | sivang: making women (or atleast me) feel like piece of meat | 12:14 |
| LinuxCode | you are pieces of meat, just as we men are pieces of meat | 12:15 |
| LinuxCode | dirty filthy human pieces of meat | 12:15 |
| Termana | Especially LinuxCode | 12:16 |
| Termana | :D | 12:16 |
| * gour thinks that "...we have piece of meat, but we are not that..." | 12:16 | |
| LinuxCode | Termana, we are all pieces of useless humanoid meat | 12:17 |
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| LinuxCode | probably be all dead in 200 years | 12:17 |
| LinuxCode | extinct as a race | 12:17 |
| sx0n | nerds as a race? | 12:17 |
| Termana | LinuxCode, your timing is a little off | 12:17 |
| LinuxCode | or species, rather | 12:17 |
| LinuxCode | hehe | 12:17 |
| Termana | 2012 is only 2 years away! | 12:17 |
| Termana | :P | 12:18 |
| LinuxCode | haha | 12:18 |
| sx0n | it's dangerous specie | 12:18 |
| LinuxCode | thats what they said in 2000 | 12:18 |
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| LinuxCode | and ehhh 1996 ? | 12:18 |
| sx0n | at epoch | 12:18 |
| pupnik | it is funny that "developers" have no idea why meego uxlaunch wont run in their non-gl VMs | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | uhm, uxlaunch just launches gl-dependant stuff.. | 12:19 |
| sx0n | is there easy way to deactivate uxlaunch? i tried to kill it. | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | if you don't want a UI | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:20 |
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| Termana | Stskeeps, isn't that exactly pupnik's point? People are wondering why gl-dependant things are unable to run in a non-gl enviroment | 12:20 |
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| Stskeeps | logic ought to be taught in first grade. | 12:20 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: Before birth. | 12:24 |
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| tmzt | Termana: it can confusing why a 2d ui needs a 3d api | 12:27 |
| leinir | tmzt: You seem to be misunderstanding something vital about opengl... :) | 12:28 |
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| tmzt | oh? | 12:30 |
| leinir | Well, opengl is a graphics acceleration framework more than it's a 3d framework :) | 12:30 |
| mindThomas | Stskeeps: You live in UK right? I talked to you yesterday | 12:31 |
| mindThomas | About the O2 Joggler | 12:31 |
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| pxchen | If meego will use QT to rewrite Netbook UX? | 12:48 |
| sx0n | pxchen, User Experience will be powered by Qt. | 12:52 |
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| sx0n | at least. | 12:52 |
| pxchen | Use Harmattan UI Framework? | 12:53 |
| Tm_T | prolly no | 12:53 |
| Tm_T | Harmattan is quite different beast | 12:53 |
| Termana | Thats not very nice | 12:55 |
| Termana | Calling Harmattan a beast | 12:55 |
| Termana | :P | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | go read about it on wikipedia | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:55 |
| * sx0n loads a rifle with a silver bullets | 12:55 | |
| Tm_T | Termana: better than calling it little kitty | 12:55 |
| pxchen | This means Meego Use a new UI Framework? | 12:56 |
| smoku | "User Experience will be powered by Qt" - pretty buzzwords straight from marketing flyer :D | 12:56 |
| sx0n | smoku, yes :) but that's because i don't know anything. | 12:57 |
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| smoku | sx0n: :) no offence. you just made me laugh ;-) | 12:58 |
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| Guest18947 | Is there any information about the handset UI? | 13:03 |
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| gour | havinr read that "he next Nokia mobile phone running the Harmatten “MeeGo Instance” will not be a pure MeeGo device, but will support MeeGo applications." makes me really wondering what will happen with meego | 13:09 |
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| Termana | gour, in what way? | 13:10 |
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| gour | it looks like mudded water | 13:10 |
| gour | nokia is not behind meego, meego is quite closed...strange | 13:11 |
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| Termana | gour, how is MeeGo closed? | 13:11 |
| Termana | That would defy one of the very reasons MeeGo exists | 13:11 |
| gour | Termana: it needs special hardware...have you read comments in http://meegoreview.com/2010/05/no-official-meego-release-for-nokia-n900/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MeeGoReview+%28MeeGo+Review%29 & http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=202 | 13:12 |
| Termana | gour, needing GL/GLES - a) does not require "special" hardware and b) does not make it closed | 13:13 |
| Termana | You can full well run MeeGo without GL/GLES hardware, you just won't be able to use the MeeGo UIs | 13:13 |
| gour | Termana: it requires one to have intel graphic in order to develop for it | 13:13 |
| gour | how can i test app without ui? building terminal apps? | 13:14 |
| Termana | gour, use something like Gnome, KDE, XFCE etc. | 13:14 |
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| gour | i use that, but i would like to develop mobile app as well | 13:15 |
| Termana | gour, also while I don't like the fact the x86 instances of MeeGo are very Intel specific - it doesn't make it closed | 13:15 |
| gour | i don't need meego for desktop replacement | 13:15 |
| gour | ok...let's stick to a) then | 13:15 |
| Termana | gour, you can run MeeGo with Gnome, KDE etc. instead of the MeeGo UI and develop apps with that | 13:16 |
| gour | as i said, i have my desktop DE...i want to develop app for netbook/smart-phone and do you expect to have gnome kde etc. there? | 13:16 |
| Termana | gour, no, but you can still develop an app that runs under the MeeGo UI without using it yourself | 13:17 |
| gour | how? by magic? | 13:17 |
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| smoku | gour: Nokia fully supports MeeGo. They just invested too much in Meego6/Harmattan, that they cannot afford scraping it. And even if they could, there's no way of getting MeeGo ready for the upcoming 2010 device. But I guess next NIT will be MeeGo based, not only MeeGo compatible. | 13:17 |
| Tm_T | smoku: you'll mean Maemo6/Harmattan there | 13:18 |
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| smoku | Tm_T: yup. typo :) | 13:18 |
| Termana | gour, obviously you don't understand the way Linux is architectured. Its the same thing with running KDE apps in Gnome | 13:18 |
| gour | Termana: you forget one thing...kde & gnome runs on whatever hardware | 13:19 |
| * gour uses lxde + xmonad | 13:19 | |
| * Tm_T is silly and has KDE in Windows too | 13:19 | |
| Termana | gour, EXACTLY - but you don't need to be USING KDE to compile and use a KDE app | 13:19 |
| gour | ..which is not the case for meego. | 13:19 |
| gour | sure, but i can install kdelibs and see how it works under gnome | 13:19 |
| gour | and i cannot even run meego installed under vm | 13:20 |
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| gour | btw, it's not me only who complains...you can try to defend as much as you like | 13:20 |
| Termana | gour, you'll find that you can still use the MeeGo libraries, just not the UI | 13:21 |
| Termana | UI itself* | 13:21 |
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| gour | which meego libs? | 13:21 |
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| gour | what's the point of them without ui? | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | gour: i think it's on organisational level, not technical level | 13:21 |
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| gour | Stskeeps: it's showstopper, no matter on which level | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | gour: i agree | 13:22 |
| gour | and that's what counts | 13:22 |
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| Tm_T | you cannot change past, so let's work on for the future | 13:22 |
| gour | it's better to agree (/me appreciates Stskeeps) than to defend effortlessly | 13:23 |
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| gour | Tm_T: yeah, but it's disappointeg move after quite nice experience with moblin | 13:23 |
| Tm_T | I have seen almost only negative complaining after the release, instead of building for whatever they are interested on | 13:23 |
| Tm_T | gour: and complaining wont change it, unfortunately | 13:23 |
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| Tm_T | all this critique is going well past the usefullness IMO | 13:25 |
| mindThomas | Any UK guys in here who would call their local O2 store for me and ask if they have any O2 Joggler's left? | 13:25 |
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| gour | maybe, 1.0 was rushed a bit | 13:26 |
| Tm_T | sure it was, I didn't expect anything more | 13:26 |
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| gour | then it should have 0.1 tag... | 13:27 |
| Tm_T | gour: hey, really, it is already done, there's no amount of complaining that will change it | 13:27 |
| Tm_T | I know it very well how easy it is just complain instead of do something myself so the next release would be better | 13:28 |
| gour | Tm_T: there was, imho, enough time after merge was announced to devise a better plan... | 13:28 |
| gour | now it just creates bitter taste and make people to turn to android... | 13:28 |
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| Tm_T | gour: and we are going circles, it's already done, you cannot change the past | 13:29 |
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| gour | Tm_T: right. but i see some people here are defending the present status which means that the lesson is not learnt ; (aka, we can expect similar blunders in the future) | 13:30 |
| Tm_T | gour: well, things aren't decided here, so better give propositions with positive examples towards release planning | 13:31 |
| sx0n | gour, which android version are you referring? i've heard that those are not compatible which each other. that's good reason to complain imo. | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | gour: i think the best direction is showing we can include virtualbox 3d drivers for instance | 13:32 |
| smoku | gour: but what's your point really? if you want to develop app for the upcoming meego, just start developing Qt app. then when the release is settled you need to make only minor adjustments. | 13:32 |
| pupnik | gour did you once work in molecular biology? | 13:32 |
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| gour | Tm_T: then it meens that we are coming to b) :-D | 13:32 |
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| gour | sx0n: i'm not at all familiar with android...didn't even take a look at it...only moblin & maemo were on the stake here | 13:33 |
| gour | Stskeeps: that would be cool | 13:33 |
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| Stskeeps | gour: the alternative is qemu gaining 3d ability | 13:33 |
| gour | it could be... | 13:34 |
| pupnik | btw i think vmware can pass opengl to host X session | 13:34 |
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| gour | smoku: i'm not sure how many adjustments would be required...e.g. handheld ui is not the same as desktop | 13:35 |
| Vortiago | Anyone tried running it with the help of VMGL? | 13:35 |
| sx0n | i've hoped for over 10 years that linux provide good hw integration but has not happened so far. | 13:35 |
| sx0n | hopefully meego will provide that. | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | Vortiago: feel free to be the first | 13:36 |
| smoku | gour: well.. I'm sure it's less work, than waiting and starting from scratch when meego settles | 13:36 |
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| gour | smoku: how do you think this graphic issue will be resolved? | 13:37 |
| gour | (than one can develop on desktop pc using VM) | 13:37 |
| gour | s/than/that | 13:39 |
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| jarkko^ | vmgl supports only < 2.0 opengl | 13:39 |
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| jarkko^ | atleast the last time i tried it | 13:39 |
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| jarkko^ | not very good long term solution | 13:42 |
| jarkko^ | shaders and such things are mandatory to do any real world gl stuff | 13:42 |
| gour | i also doubt about qemu & 3d | 13:42 |
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| jarkko^ | "OpenGL up to version 1.5 is supported (sorry, no 2.0 shading languages,)" | 13:45 |
| jarkko^ | from vmgl homepage | 13:45 |
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| smoku | gour: what do you need VM for? | 13:46 |
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| smoku | gour: Qt runs natively on most platforms | 13:46 |
| Tm_T | smoku: name one platform it doesn't run | 13:47 |
| Vortiago | My Wii | 13:47 |
| pupnik | Roughly speaking, OpenGL up to version 1.5 is supported (sorry, no 2.0 shading languages,) with the following exceptions: | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | nokia 770? | 13:47 |
| Tm_T | ...that is even closely relevant to this topic, that is (: | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | Vortiago: actually, not true | 13:47 |
| pupnik | http://vmgl.sourceforge.net/ | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | Vortiago: Mer had Qt which ran on wii | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:47 |
| Tm_T | Stskeeps: it doesn't run on it? | 13:47 |
| Vortiago | Stskeeps, seriously? Sweet | 13:47 |
| sx0n | http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=16 | 13:47 |
| pupnik | haha jarkko^ | 13:47 |
| smoku | Tm_T: MorphOS | 13:47 |
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| Stskeeps | Vortiago: we made a powerpc port ;) | 13:48 |
| gour | smoku: to run meego ui | 13:48 |
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| Tm_T | smoku: never heard of it | 13:48 |
| jarkko^ | pupnik: duplicate :) | 13:49 |
| smoku | Tm_T: congrats ;P | 13:49 |
| Tm_T | smoku: (:) | 13:49 |
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| pupnik | smoku: tried building anything yet? | 13:51 |
| smoku | pupnik: context? | 13:51 |
| pupnik | for meego | 13:51 |
| smoku | no. I hate Qt ;-) | 13:51 |
| pupnik | is sdl banned then? | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | no | 13:53 |
| smoku | well... but it's not really "for meego" then ;-) | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | just like maemo didn't ban qt when it was qt.. | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | when it was gtk based, that is | 13:53 |
| smoku | but I tried building my own image with mic2 | 13:56 |
| smoku | and failed so far ;-) | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | x86 or arm? | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | and under what os | 13:56 |
| smoku | arm | 13:56 |
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| smoku | to run it on meego qemu | 13:56 |
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| Stskeeps | well, come debug it in #meego-arm | 13:57 |
| smoku | i think it may be an issue of mic package for Arch Linux | 13:57 |
| Stskeeps | might be | 13:58 |
| smoku | I will once I get back to it :) | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | i use fedora chroot as a basis | 13:58 |
| smoku | I would rather fix the port rather than workaround with chroot | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 14:00 |
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| pupnik | some of those threads on forum are disheartening | 14:03 |
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| jozefk | can i install meego on nokia n95 8gb? | 15:49 |
| suihkulokki | no | 15:50 |
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| jozefk | it's only for netbooks? | 15:50 |
| spide | you can install the meego core to n900 but it is not much of an experience. | 15:51 |
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| jozefk | it's only good for netbooks I think | 15:52 |
| spide | for now. | 15:52 |
| spide | meego with UI for n900 will be released later. | 15:53 |
| jozefk | it's still new OS it seems | 15:53 |
| jozefk | n900 is coming with maemo by defualt I think. it is also some kind of linux | 15:54 |
| spide | you are correct. | 15:54 |
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| jozefk | but maemo is not listed on distrowatch.com | 15:55 |
| jozefk | meego and moblin are there. meego is based on moblin | 15:56 |
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| spide | meego is supposed to be moblin + maemo merged as one. | 15:57 |
| jozefk | sounds good | 15:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | sounds complicated :) | 15:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | fwiw, the n95 was capable of running an older version of maemo | 15:59 |
| timeless_mbp | but the reason you can't run <whatever> on your n95 is that to do it you need a signing certificate for the bootloader and friends | 15:59 |
| pupnik | can i get that timeless_mbp ? | 15:59 |
| timeless_mbp | and nokia doesn't distribute those | 15:59 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: no | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | well, get a job at nokia :) | 16:00 |
| jozefk | or buy n900 | 16:00 |
| timeless_mbp | he already has one of those | 16:00 |
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| jozefk | n900 don't need certificates? | 16:00 |
| spide | buying n900 doesnt get the maemo / meego on n95 :) | 16:00 |
| pupnik | it would be so cute on a n97 mini! | 16:00 |
| spide | well for n900 you get the "official" maemo / meego images. | 16:01 |
| jozefk | spide, but it gets them on n900 :) | 16:01 |
| sivang | pupnik: I actually want to run S60 on N900 :) | 16:02 |
| sivang | pupnik: see my ML thread :) | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | jozefk: kinda | 16:02 |
| pupnik | going back to tampere in august i think timeless_mbp | 16:02 |
| * CosmoHill has just seen the indy 500 crash :/ | 16:02 | |
| timeless_mbp | you can generally flash most parts of the system w/ whatever you like | 16:02 |
| timeless_mbp | that excludes the cellmo module | 16:03 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: ah, so no calls | 16:03 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: and that is the exact reason why I wanted it | 16:03 |
| timeless_mbp | which can only be upgraded to a newer signed software | 16:03 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: which? | 16:03 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: to have the lighter S60 on the N900 | 16:03 |
| * timeless_mbp is terribly confused | 16:03 | |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: although after reboot calls reciving and making is snappy | 16:03 |
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| jozefk | maemo is open source or not? | 16:05 |
| sivang | jozefk: it is, in its most part. | 16:06 |
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| sivang | timeless_mbp: I wanted to expriment with S60 on N900 and MeeGo on N8, since it has better CPU etc. | 16:06 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: as an example | 16:06 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: so the choice of device AND os. | 16:06 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: well | 16:07 |
| timeless_mbp | in theory open symbian could probably be ported to the n900 | 16:07 |
| timeless_mbp | i certainly wouldn't waste my time w/ it | 16:07 |
| sivang | but then I am alone | 16:07 |
| sivang | e.g. no Nokia help | 16:07 |
| sivang | since it's not their cut | 16:07 |
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| Termana | Look, I mean no offence to the Nokians that might be idling in the room that may work on Symbian at Nokia, but Symbian sucks and no one cares about it. | 16:08 |
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| Termana | No one WANTS that thing ported | 16:08 |
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| Stskeeps | but but it'll give us proper ovi maps ;p | 16:09 |
| jozefk | what's worng with symbian on n95? it works fine I think | 16:10 |
| jozefk | wrong* | 16:10 |
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| spide | i think most of the people have issues with s60 not symbian itself. | 16:11 |
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| * CosmoHill has S60 :/ | 16:11 | |
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| spide | S60 is the UI framework that runs on Symbian OS. | 16:13 |
| sivang | It is true that S60 is not perfect, but it is far from being useless and people do care for it. It just need some more polish and to adopt some more to the new hardware and utilize it | 16:14 |
| sivang | I acan't wait to see S^3 on N8 | 16:15 |
| sivang | I'm sure it improved and solved many of the issues with S^2/S60 | 16:15 |
| clipartcat | sivang, are you referring that maemo/meego is useless? | 16:15 |
| sivang | clipartcat: no, these aer differnt tools for differnt audiences and markets. | 16:16 |
| sivang | Are | 16:16 |
| sivang | *are | 16:16 |
| sivang | latency is bad today | 16:16 |
| clipartcat | we need local echo back! | 16:17 |
| sivang | clipartcat: so if I need to choose a phon for my 20 yo sister, I give her S60, if I choose a phone for my CTO friend , I give him MeeGo/Maemo | 16:17 |
| sivang | on N900 and future devices | 16:17 |
| Termana | I reiterate, I don't think anyone really cares about Symbian. If you seriously believe Symbian is the platform that has future and the platform Nokia needs to put out in the high-end smartphone market... | 16:17 |
| Termana | ...with the likes of the iPhone and the Android platform | 16:17 |
| Termana | then I am truely sorry for you | 16:17 |
| pupnik | sivang: i want an n8 just cause it is -gorgeous- hardware | 16:17 |
| clipartcat | Termana, nokia sure cares as consider how much it gives time to meego vs. s60 | 16:17 |
| sivang | pupnik: I want it to poke inside S3 and learn about it with relation to the Nokia ahrdware. | 16:18 |
| Termana | Even Nokia is clearing Symbian out of their high-end smartphones | 16:18 |
| Termana | They do actually have sense | 16:18 |
| pupnik | plus n8 will be a great portable media player | 16:18 |
| clipartcat | Termana, well not in two years. | 16:18 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: Symbian is in the mid-range market, for multimedia savy non tech users. | 16:18 |
| pupnik | bingo sivang | 16:19 |
| sivang | pupnik: exactly | 16:19 |
| sivang | if you need a mobiule compupter phone, you use maemo | 16:19 |
| sivang | or MeeGO | 16:19 |
| jozefk | meego is made by nokia? | 16:19 |
| sivang | err latency! | 16:19 |
| pupnik | alsol the screen is +so+ useful for taking good photos | 16:19 |
| sivang | jozefk: and intel | 16:19 |
| sivang | pupnik: indeed, and it has professional grade digicam | 16:19 |
| sivang | there's even diffrent use cases in my opinion | 16:20 |
| jozefk | intel and nokia are behind meego :) that must be something good then | 16:20 |
| sivang | when I go to a confeerence our abroad for a long time, I take the tablet (n900) | 16:20 |
| sivang | jozefk: it is. | 16:20 |
| * pupnik is excited for meego + amoled screen | 16:20 | |
| Stskeeps | sivang: i learnt that the hard way from dragging a laptop around all the time in hong kong, heh | 16:20 |
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| Termana | Symbian will never regain mindshare in the US | 16:20 |
| sivang | if I go to a cycle or to a party, I take my N97 Mini | 16:20 |
| Termana | and the US' biggest export is culture | 16:21 |
| sivang | Termana: US is an odd market in its own regard. People there tend to prefer lock down aolutions | 16:21 |
| pupnik | sivang: how do you feel about n97 mini keboard vs n900? | 16:21 |
| sivang | pupnik: even a bit better | 16:21 |
| sivang | pupnik: more resilient to miss press | 16:21 |
| pupnik | hmm i like n900 feel though | 16:21 |
| sivang | pupnik: and snappier in response int he softwware | 16:21 |
| Termana | Symbian has a lot of marketshare in Europe (AFAIK) but I still don't think it has mindshare and I don't think it will get it | 16:21 |
| sivang | right, it feels better for the kbd | 16:21 |
| sivang | but the N97 mini is a bit better in seperating the keys. | 16:22 |
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| sivang | (e.g. plastic hardware layout) | 16:22 |
| pupnik | yep. finally had a chance to grope all the nokias | 16:22 |
| sivang | Termana: in Asia as well | 16:22 |
| sivang | Termana: and middle east :) | 16:22 |
| jozefk | what about e90? can it be used with meego or it also only symbian? | 16:22 |
| Termana | sivang, either way NO MINDSHARE. | 16:22 |
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| Termana | Maemo doesn't exactly have too much of it either. But hopefully MeeGo will be able to bring that forward | 16:23 |
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| sivang | Termana: I don't think there has ever been such a brave attempt to do something like Nokia had done with Maemo. | 16:23 |
| Termana | sivang, expand on what you mean? | 16:24 |
| sivang | Termana: it is like Netscape and mozilla for me | 16:24 |
| Termana | Create an open phone? | 16:24 |
| sivang | Termana: in that direction, yes | 16:24 |
| sivang | Termana: AApple would have never done something like that and for me that says something about the company philosophy | 16:25 |
| Termana | Android is completely open, Maemo is 57% closed - how do you make that open phone comparison? | 16:25 |
| sivang | Termana: and conduct | 16:25 |
| Termana | Google have made sure 3 phones were able to be used in a completely open manner - ADP1, ADP2 and the Nexus One | 16:25 |
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| Termana | Maemo is 57% closed. You can't just rebuild all of Maemo. Thats not an open phone, and an open OS. | 16:26 |
| Termana | MeeGo changes the game a little bit. But Nokia still plans to use closed packages for differentiation in end products. | 16:27 |
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| smoku | Termana: "Android is completely open"???!! What a load of BS. http://www.visionmobile.com/blog/2010/04/is-android-evil/ | 16:27 |
| Termana | smoku, I've already seen that blog, so I anticipated someone saying that | 16:28 |
| Termana | smoku, That blog post is a load of bullshit :) | 16:28 |
| Termana | Look at the comments for starters | 16:28 |
| * saft agrees | 16:28 | |
| smoku | Android is no more open than Maemo. Google uses the same tricks as Nokia in Maemo. | 16:29 |
| Termana | smoku, WRONG. You can COMPLETELY recompile Android and still have everything you originally had | 16:29 |
| Termana | You absolutely CANNOT do this with Maemo | 16:29 |
| smoku | Termana: like GMail app? | 16:29 |
| smoku | or store app | 16:29 |
| Termana | smoku, we are talking the core OS here. But if you want to get into the apps - you CAN still use those apps | 16:29 |
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| smoku | Termana: keeping core OS, what exactly you cannot compile in Maemo? | 16:30 |
| sivang | Termana: the same in Maemo | 16:30 |
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| sivang | Termana: and Nokia opened that to community particiaption (apps and more) very very early. | 16:30 |
| sivang | released the platform while it is known it is still not perfect. | 16:31 |
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| sivang | that's brave. | 16:31 |
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| Termana | It isn't the same I'm afraid. You cannot even charge your battery without using closed source software. | 16:31 |
| smoku | that's not core OS | 16:32 |
| Termana | How is that not to do with the core OS, and retaining all the features | 16:32 |
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| Termana | Also, if you try and recompile Maemo, I think you'll have a hard time getting back any of the apps on top that are closed | 16:33 |
| Termana | Whereas with Android, the apps can just be reinstalled | 16:33 |
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| smoku | Mer project recompiled all open Maemo parts and have a functional system. Moebian project is integrating Maemo proprietary apps in plain Debian ARM system with success. | 16:34 |
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| Stskeeps | success? | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:35 |
| Termana | smoku, BUT neither are full recompiles of the Maemo core OS plus the proprietary bits placed back on | 16:35 |
| smoku | yup. It's not joe-user ready, but it works. | 16:35 |
| Termana | bits in Maemos case are apps and packages of the core OS | 16:35 |
| smoku | Termana: same for Android. | 16:35 |
| Termana | bits in the case of Android is just the apps | 16:35 |
| Termana | smoku, NO its not the same for Android - for Android it is just the apps. | 16:36 |
| smoku | for Maemo it's just the apps too | 16:36 |
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| PolarFox | Meego is pretty... pretty little thing... Mmmm... :) | 16:37 |
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| jadams | has anyone run into and fixed the "INIT: Id "x" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes" bug? I've seen it reported a few times after a cursory google search, but found no solutions | 16:37 |
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| sivang | smoku: is that a community project? (Moebian) | 16:37 |
| sivang | smoku: how do they get access to the prop. stuff? | 16:38 |
| smoku | sivang: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/moebian/ | 16:38 |
| Termana | Just browsing http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/ | 16:39 |
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| Termana | The telephony stack is completely closed in Maemo, but I guess you could argue that its replaceable with ofono, whatever. | 16:40 |
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| Termana | The browser UI is closed. Just as a reference, the Android browser IS open | 16:41 |
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| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 16:42 | |
| timeless_mbp | the browser ui was open at times | 16:42 |
| Termana | Looks like there is some of the multimedia framework closed off | 16:42 |
| timeless_mbp | we didn't really get patches from the community | 16:42 |
| timeless_mbp | even when i explained to people how to write them | 16:42 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: you did not explain that to me! :) | 16:43 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: or at least, I wasn't there when it was open | 16:43 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: the sources for some chinook or diablo version are still around somewhere | 16:43 |
| Termana | timeless_mbp, OH I see, so its ok to close off packages if your not receiving patches from the community? | 16:43 |
| timeless_mbp | Termana: oh, go to **** | 16:43 |
| clipartcat | timeless_mbp, well that's a good reason to close it. | 16:43 |
| timeless_mbp | being accusatory will not get you anywhere useful | 16:44 |
| timeless_mbp | if you want to be an *** then you shouldn't expect positive responses | 16:44 |
| timeless_mbp | in general, engineers want to be on your side | 16:44 |
| Termana | Now hold on a minute, I'm just asking you to clear up what you said | 16:44 |
| timeless_mbp | but if you piss *us* off | 16:44 |
| * sp3000 wants to be a star! | 16:44 | |
| timeless_mbp | forget about anyone supporting you against the managers | 16:44 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: i want food | 16:44 |
| Termana | I'm asking if thats the reason it was found acceptable to close the package off | 16:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i missed dinner yesterday | 16:44 |
| timeless_mbp | Termana: it wasn't the reason | 16:45 |
| sp3000 | it's early, or late | 16:45 |
| timeless_mbp | but it is a reason that i'm less interested or fighting | 16:45 |
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| timeless_mbp | the browser ui from fremantle is a dead end | 16:45 |
| timeless_mbp | it's also entirely uninteresting | 16:45 |
| timeless_mbp | please note that if we were to open source it today | 16:45 |
| timeless_mbp | and people then provided patches to it | 16:45 |
| timeless_mbp | and we ignored them | 16:45 |
| timeless_mbp | we'd be trashed for tossing junk code at the community | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | and asking them to maintain it | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | that's not a winning proposition | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | there is a general sense that one shouldn't open source code w/o accepting an obligation to maintain it | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | doing otherwise engenders very negative feelings | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | i'll take counter arguments on that point now | 16:46 |
| timeless_mbp | you have 5 minutes. | 16:47 |
| Termana | Fine, but shouldn't it have been open from the start? | 16:47 |
| clipartcat | timeless_mbp, god bless that there is no junk code @ nokia. | 16:47 |
| timeless_mbp | clipartcat: thankfully i'm not currently responsible for any such code | 16:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i got in trouble the last time management forced us to make a contribution | 16:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm really not interested in a repeat | 16:47 |
| clipartcat | i've heard horror stories of people parsing timestamps with regular expressions <3 | 16:47 |
| timeless_mbp | that sounds better than some of the code that extended the browser pre 1.2 | 16:48 |
| timeless_mbp | parsing xml files one character at a time | 16:48 |
| sivang | clipartcat: oh dear | 16:48 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: oh DEAR | 16:48 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: XUL content? | 16:48 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: no, this was an addon | 16:48 |
| sivang | ah | 16:48 |
| timeless_mbp | not written by the browser team | 16:48 |
| sivang | geez | 16:48 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm not saying the browser team code is great | 16:48 |
| timeless_mbp | but... | 16:48 |
| timeless_mbp | by comparison, our code was saintly and leak free! | 16:49 |
| pupnik | :) | 16:49 |
| timeless_mbp | (this is the same code which was among the reasons 1.2 was delayed | 16:49 |
| timeless_mbp | it was the code which caused people to complain that the browser was too stable and was hurting the system | 16:49 |
| timeless_mbp | because the code was slowly leaking | 16:49 |
| timeless_mbp | which isn't a problem if the browser crashes regularly) | 16:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyway, enough about that code | 16:50 |
| timeless_mbp | it's best left forgotten | 16:50 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 16:50 | |
| timeless_mbp | parsing sqlite3.c is painful | 16:50 |
| timeless_mbp | the file is >2mb | 16:51 |
| timeless_mbp | (111k lines) | 16:51 |
| sivang | In timeless_mbp true | 16:51 |
| sivang | hmm, | 16:52 |
| sivang | wrong language and console :) | 16:52 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 16:52 |
| timeless_mbp | sadly there are a couple of copies of that file in this repo | 16:52 |
| timeless_mbp | sp3000: anyway… i've gotten genxref to think about things in a merge-able manner :) | 16:52 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: we'll make it all better with MeeGo, there's chromium to maintain as well ;) | 16:52 |
| timeless_mbp | sivang: thankfully not in this iteration of the index | 16:53 |
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| Termana | My point still stands you cannot piece together anything that will be exactly the same as Maemo. It is completely possible to do so for Android. To go back to the original point, yes Maemo and Nokia have done some good things for the future of open phones. | 16:54 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 16:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | iirc you couldn't use the android store if you pieced together your own pone | 16:55 |
| timeless_mbp | s/pone/phone/ | 16:55 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: iirc you couldn't use the android store if you pieced together your own phone | 16:55 |
| sivang | Termana: you mean ground breaking things, that you'd see android and friend projects will use. | 16:55 |
| timeless_mbp | maybe google changed that | 16:55 |
| sivang | :) | 16:55 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: due to signing right? | 16:56 |
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| timeless_mbp | sivang: implementation detail | 16:56 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 16:56 | |
| timeless_mbp | eCouldntCareLess | 16:56 |
| * sivang likes the fact installing stuff on MeeGo/Maemo is amtter of download an rpm/deb and installing it just on a regular desktop system. | 16:56 | |
| sivang | no signing no nothing. | 16:56 |
| sivang | and there are a couple of apps that are from the OVI store (actually quite a few) that are shipped that way. | 16:57 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: heheh | 16:57 |
| Termana | You can use the store on your own phone | 16:57 |
| Termana | Theres no technical limitation, there is a licensing limitation however | 16:57 |
| timeless_mbp | there was certainly a time when dev phones in dev mode could not use the store | 16:58 |
| timeless_mbp | because google didn't want people to buy a product, copy it, "return it", and copy it back | 16:58 |
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| timeless_mbp | but i don't really care | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | yes google has made an interesting platform | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | but if you want to talk about #android, might i suggest #android or @twitter ? | 16:59 |
| sivang | does not use Java? | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | this is #meego | 16:59 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp++ | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | complaining about nokia's historical gaffs is as offtopic as complaining about google's | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | all that should matter here is what you're doing to help meego | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm currently building an xref for meego.com | 17:00 |
| timeless_mbp | what are you doing today? | 17:00 |
| clipartcat | coding with erlang and nothing for meego! | 17:01 |
| Termana | Thats they way you change the subject so you stop looking like a fool. Tell the room its off-topic and act like you never discuss anything "off-topic". | 17:01 |
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| sivang | Termana: may I offer some slides? | 17:02 |
| sivang | Termana: http://www.imaworld.org/?CategoryID=692 | 17:02 |
| timeless_mbp | Termana: complaining about nokia's open sourcing or lack of open sourcing a component for maemo is offtopic | 17:02 |
| sivang | Termana: maybe some questions will be answered or some nice info to consume | 17:02 |
| Myrtti | meh. Be productive folks. | 17:03 |
| timeless_mbp | management decided to be annoying and refused to let use continue to work on the browser ui in the open for fremantle | 17:03 |
| w00t_ | timeless_mbp: xref? | 17:03 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t_: cross reference | 17:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | like mxr.maemo.org | 17:03 |
| timeless_mbp | but in this case, mxr.moego.org | 17:03 |
| * w00t_ does not know of this, and goes to investigate | 17:03 | |
| timeless_mbp | w00t_: *sigh* | 17:03 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc mxr.maemo.org's being in the #maemo irc topic for years | 17:03 |
| w00t_ | I don't usually see topics unless someone updates them or I actively request them | 17:04 |
| w00t_ | I *am* in like over 80 channels, so | 17:04 |
| timeless_mbp | the meego one isn't topic'd yet because i haven't gotten my cname and i don't have a happy repo for meego | 17:04 |
| w00t_ | looks interesting though | 17:04 |
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| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: that reminds me, mxr.maemo wasn't PR1.2'd yet last I looked | 17:07 |
| sp3000 | and it's been out for like several minutes! | 17:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | sp3000: heh | 17:08 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, i need to do that | 17:08 |
| timeless_mbp | should we use swift or one of your boxes? :) | 17:08 |
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| LaSaRuX | hi | 17:08 |
| Myrtti | *yawn* | 17:08 |
| Myrtti | need moar coffee | 17:08 |
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| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: gaaah! :) | 17:09 |
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| Mansson | I am confused. The 0.9 ARM code was available as meego_qemu_nand.img. The 1.0 only as a ".raw" file to be flashed on N900. How do I do if I want to run 1.0 for ARM in qemu? | 17:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | you want to use system qemu? | 17:33 |
| Mansson | I just want to follow the instructions on http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Qemu but get to 1.0 instead of 0.9. | 17:35 |
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| sivang | timeless_mbp: so if I flash 1.0 onto my N900, I just have a console after boot? | 17:39 |
| * timeless_mbp shrugs | 17:40 | |
| * timeless_mbp wouldn't flash it | 17:40 | |
| * sivang wiki's | 17:40 | |
| timeless_mbp | you're welcome to do so | 17:40 |
| timeless_mbp | but i like having working phones | 17:40 |
| timeless_mbp | so i can choose to ignore phone calls and meetings... | 17:40 |
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| sivang | timeless_mbp: hehe | 17:41 |
| sivang | timeless_mbp: I wonder what happens now when you have it installed and there's a call, how do you answer? | 17:41 |
| sivang | "Press ENTER to answer the call from 972-??-?????" :) | 17:42 |
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| Myrtti | yeah, I thought 1.0 was the netbook version | 17:43 |
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| Mansson | 1.0 for ARM did not quite work on N900, but It should be useful in qemu nevertheless. The 0.9 for ARM did only have yum - not zypper so it's a dead end. | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | you can't install zypper w/ yum? | 17:49 |
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| sivang | zypper is how apt is called in MeeGo? | 17:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | sivang: roughly | 17:53 |
| timeless_mbp | they're functionally similar | 17:53 |
| timeless_mbp | but entirely unrelated | 17:53 |
| timeless_mbp | apt-get/apt-cache/whatever are layers on top of dpkg-whatever | 17:54 |
| timeless_mbp | yum is a layer on top of rpm | 17:54 |
| timeless_mbp | zypper is a more advanced thing that i believe just layers above rpm | 17:54 |
| sivang | ah, like Gustavo Nymer's package manager sort of thing? | 17:55 |
| sivang | like one interface, multiple backends? | 17:55 |
| timeless_mbp | google :) | 17:55 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 17:55 |
| * sivang googles :) | 17:55 | |
| sivang | SMART | 17:55 |
| sivang | finally I recalled the name | 17:55 |
| timeless_mbp | meego is using rpm as its package system instead of deb | 17:55 |
| sivang | I know | 17:55 |
| sivang | (that) | 17:55 |
| timeless_mbp | but the ideas behind how one does this stuff are roughly the same | 17:55 |
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| * sivang googles. | 17:55 | |
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| sivang | forums kill me | 17:58 |
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| sivang | why can't we just use MLs? | 17:58 |
| sivang | so much overhead using a browser to communicate through a forum software. | 17:58 |
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| sivang | and some forum software with tons of js bring some mobile browsers down... | 17:58 |
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| pinchartl | sivang: I've always preferred MLs over forums too | 18:00 |
| sivang | but I guess there's a group of users more comfortable with forums than with MLs. | 18:01 |
| sivang | a rather large group :) | 18:01 |
| lbt | forums are for users | 18:02 |
| gour | how many of those are devs...that is the question | 18:02 |
| pinchartl | lbt: why are users assumed not to be able to use e-mail ? :-) | 18:03 |
| sivang | lbt: I see, when you sent me to look over the forum the other day on the ML thread, I stood still and lost my way through the tangling forum threads :) | 18:03 |
| * sivang is too old | 18:03 | |
| sivang | I've been using mutt not until recently when gmail got big. | 18:04 |
| sivang | s/not/just/ | 18:04 |
| infobot | sivang meant: I've been using mutt just until recently when gmail got big. | 18:04 |
| gour | then it means that /me is too old using gmane to follow MLs | 18:05 |
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| sivang | gour: heh | 18:06 |
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| sivang | gmane is nice if you are tired of choosing the month of the thread | 18:07 |
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| * gour uses gmane for 99.9 MLs | 18:09 | |
| gour | (using claws as mailer) | 18:09 |
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| sivang | gour: you use a gmane plugin? | 18:16 |
| gour | sivang: no. claws can handle nntp | 18:17 |
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| * gour uses rss plugin | 18:17 | |
| Yoshi47 | anyone here running meego 1.0 on a dell mini 12? | 18:17 |
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| CosmoHill | Inspiron Mini 1012 ? | 18:20 |
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| CosmoHill | Yoshi47: Inspiron Mini 1012 ? | 18:23 |
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| Yoshi47 | CosmoHill, yes | 18:23 |
| CosmoHill | it's listed as a supported device | 18:24 |
| Yoshi47 | i know, but it can't seem to find my frame buffer | 18:24 |
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| arjan | Yoshi47: mini 12? | 18:36 |
| * arjan looks up | 18:36 | |
| Yoshi47 | arjan, yes | 18:36 |
| Yoshi47 | can't find any bugs | 18:37 |
| Yoshi47 | or others have this problem | 18:37 |
| arjan | 12.1 does for sure not work (chipset with no linux support) | 18:37 |
| arjan | if your atom cpu starts with a Z it's not supported | 18:37 |
| arjan | (since it then has the menlow chipset with gma500 graphics ) | 18:38 |
| Yoshi47 | i have had multiple linuxes on it | 18:39 |
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| Yoshi47 | xubunut | 18:39 |
| Yoshi47 | gentoo | 18:39 |
| Yoshi47 | ubuntu netbook remix | 18:40 |
| arjan | what graphics does it have? | 18:40 |
| Yoshi47 | poulsbo | 18:40 |
| arjan | menlow/gma500 ;( | 18:40 |
| arjan | yeah that's not supported by the hw vendor on linux ;-( | 18:40 |
| arjan | I wish I had a better answer | 18:40 |
| arjan | (especially as someone working for said hw vendor) | 18:40 |
| Yoshi47 | then why can i get other linux to work | 18:41 |
| arjan | vesa mode | 18:41 |
| LaSaRuX | uhm | 18:41 |
| arjan | but if you really need 3d.. | 18:41 |
| LaSaRuX | but there are drivers... | 18:41 |
| arjan | there was a driver at some piont for older linux as well | 18:41 |
| arjan | but it's unmaintained and not provided for newer kernel/X | 18:41 |
| Yoshi47 | arjan, why do they say mini 12 is supported then? | 18:41 |
| arjan | we do ? | 18:41 |
| Yoshi47 | you do | 18:41 |
| Yoshi47 | if your a dev | 18:41 |
| Yoshi47 | yes | 18:41 |
| Yoshi47 | its on the web page | 18:41 |
| LaSaRuX | http://www.happyassassin.net/2009/05/13/native-poulsbo-gma-500-graphics-driver-for-fedora-10/ | 18:42 |
| arjan | Yoshi47: have the url? | 18:42 |
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| arjan | (the website is big ;l-) | 18:42 |
| Yoshi47 | http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.0/meego-v1.0-netbooks | 18:42 |
| Yoshi47 | look at the supported hardware | 18:43 |
| Yoshi47 | never mind | 18:43 |
| arjan | Inspiron Mini 1012 | 18:43 |
| Yoshi47 | i have the 1210 | 18:43 |
| Yoshi47 | not the 012 | 18:43 |
| Yoshi47 | 1012* | 18:43 |
| arjan | that's a Mini 10 | 18:43 |
| Yoshi47 | well that sucks | 18:43 |
| arjan | I'm sorry I wish I could support said hardware ;( | 18:43 |
| arjan | (and trust me, we've fought about this internally) | 18:43 |
| sivang | I've had issues with it on Uubuntu as well | 18:44 |
| sivang | so I eventually got a GMA4500 based system | 18:44 |
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| Yoshi47 | yes inorder for hardware accel to go you need to get the sources from dell and make a image for it | 18:46 |
| Yoshi47 | it was a pain, but i did get it too work | 18:46 |
| Yoshi47 | but then my hard drive clunked out | 18:46 |
| Yoshi47 | and now i need a ssd for it | 18:46 |
| Yoshi47 | then i want to sell it | 18:46 |
| LaSaRuX | http://www.happyassassin.net/2009/05/13/native-poulsbo-gma-500-graphics-driver-for-fedora-10/#comment-817 | 18:47 |
| LaSaRuX | hey | 18:48 |
| LaSaRuX | guys | 18:48 |
| LaSaRuX | watch that | 18:48 |
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| gour | anyone tried qt port for android? | 18:52 |
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| koan | so I installed MeeGo 1.0 on my netbook, but I can't find the settings for 3G internet connections (I have a 3G USB dongle) | 18:56 |
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| renegaid | I just tried this yesterday. really buggy | 19:16 |
| arjan | renegaid: can you be bothered to fire off an email with the bugs you find? | 19:17 |
| arjan | or just say here which areas you consider buggy | 19:17 |
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| renegaid | the ui crashes and the software update does not work | 19:18 |
| renegaid | how come there is no open office | 19:19 |
| tyler_ | Can't you add the repository manually? | 19:19 |
| tyler_ | (I don't really know, I haven't tried the OS yet) | 19:19 |
| arjan | we don't have open office since openoffice is pretty bad for a small screen | 19:19 |
| arjan | many dialogs don't fit and such | 19:19 |
| tyler_ | It's also pretty resource intensive. | 19:20 |
| arjan | well that too yes | 19:20 |
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| renegaid | I use MS office on my eeepc no issues | 19:22 |
| CosmoHill | can you use youtube without issues? | 19:22 |
| renegaid | yea | 19:23 |
| CosmoHill | damn you -.- | 19:23 |
| tyler_ | arjan: Do you know if the MeeGo team plans to officially support proprietary drivers (Nvidia)? | 19:23 |
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| renegaid | CosmoHill: maybe you have an old eeepc | 19:23 |
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| spide | i was trying to get wvdial to work but run into troubles while compiling wvstreams. | 19:23 |
| CosmoHill | I have a high end laptop | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | it's just old :( | 19:24 |
| renegaid | do you problems with youtube | 19:24 |
| arjan | tyler_: we're not. | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | sometimes I can use 480p | 19:24 |
| spide | it is saying that openssl is missing even when it is installed. | 19:24 |
| renegaid | oh. I thought meego was only for atom | 19:24 |
| arjan | tyler_: but we may look at nouveau for 1.1 | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | yay | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | arjan: is it possible to install nvidia drivers from the command line if you boot meego into init 3? | 19:25 |
| arjan | I don't know. | 19:25 |
| tyler_ | arjan: I was just wondering because I have an Asus N10 (you can switch between discrete and int. graphics). | 19:25 |
| arjan | that switching isn't very well supported by X yet | 19:26 |
| arjan | read dave airlie's blog; he is making some progress, but only some | 19:26 |
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| CosmoHill | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Nzk1NQ | 19:27 |
| arjan | yeap that | 19:27 |
| arjan | it still involves an X restart | 19:27 |
| arjan | but it's better than nothing :) | 19:27 |
| arjan | and a good step forwar | 19:27 |
| arjan | d | 19:27 |
| CosmoHill | does it invole logging out? | 19:28 |
| tyler_ | Well, I wasn't planning on using the switch but it would be nice to have a netbook OS that can use the proprietary graphics. | 19:28 |
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| CosmoHill | ah yes it does | 19:28 |
| arjan | tyler_: why is it nice to use proprietary graphics?? | 19:29 |
| arjan | why not use Windows.. that's all proprietary ;) | 19:29 |
| CosmoHill | later in the week I might try and install meego onto my laptop and then install drivers | 19:29 |
| CosmoHill | (my laptop being nvidia) | 19:29 |
| tyler_ | Because the open source driver stack sucks and doesn't work? | 19:29 |
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| tyler_ | I would like to actually, play games, on my netbook. | 19:30 |
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| CosmoHill | tyler_: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau_gallium3d_first&num=2 | 19:31 |
| CosmoHill | i think it could be like with the google brower | 19:31 |
| CosmoHill | you have nouveau for the OSS meego version | 19:31 |
| CosmoHill | and the nvidia ones for the EULA like you have with chrome | 19:31 |
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| spide | how should a phone modem show up in meego or are they even supported / do I need some other sw as well? | 19:32 |
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| arjan | spide: it's supposed to show up as 3G in the network panel | 19:32 |
| arjan | if it does not that's a connman bug. | 19:32 |
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| spide | connected my 3150xm via usb and i see nothing. | 19:33 |
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| sx0n|home | gallium is quite interesting: http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2010/04/geometry-processing-love-story.html | 19:34 |
| spide | also tried if iwconfig or ifconfig would tell anything. | 19:34 |
| tyler_ | It's also five times slower then the proprietary drivers provided by Nvidia. | 19:35 |
| spide | maybe my trusty e90 would do better. | 19:35 |
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| CosmoHill | tyler_: hmm | 19:36 |
| CosmoHill | you need drivers to use meego | 19:37 |
| CosmoHill | if meego came with nouveau you could use meego | 19:37 |
| spide | forget it. don't have correct usb cable for that one. | 19:37 |
| tyler_ | I want to play games. | 19:37 |
| tyler_ | 3D games. | 19:37 |
| CosmoHill | if you wanted better performace you could then go onto nvidia.co.uk and get the propriotory drivers | 19:37 |
| tyler_ | My question was that if there was going to be official support for it though. | 19:38 |
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| arjan | tyler_: and the answer so far is no. | 19:38 |
| arjan | the tsg has said they do not want to support binary kernel drivers | 19:38 |
| tyler_ | Which is a bummer. | 19:39 |
| CosmoHill | as it's been pointed out to me it's too legally "iffy" to ship meego with propriety nvidia drivers | 19:39 |
| arjan | tyler_: the linux foundation has a very clear position on binary kernel drivers | 19:39 |
| arjan | I suggest you read it ;-) | 19:39 |
| arjan | the LF thinks they're very harmful to linux | 19:39 |
| CosmoHill | so my new point is that nouveau drivers are better than nothing | 19:39 |
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| hylix_ | again all | 19:40 |
| hylix_ | do you know if there is a way to have the same interface that meego ? | 19:40 |
| tyler_ | arjan: Thanks for the condescending and demeaning tone. I meant a support similar to how Ubuntu helps users download and install proprietary drivers. | 19:41 |
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| smoku | tyler_: it's not a job of meego to deliver proprietary software. it's a job of tha manufacturer. In windows world whan you buy a hardware, you get the drivers CD and noone complains... | 19:42 |
| CosmoHill | tyler_: you mean some kinda of script that gets the drivers from nvidia and install them for you | 19:42 |
| * gour did some research about the prospect of using qt port for android for possible development for android OS...but meego still looks as better option | 19:42 | |
| arjan | tyler_: are you volunteering to do the work for that? sounds like a good thing to start a wiki about, and once the wiki is mature, automated it somehow | 19:43 |
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| arjan | like slaine is doing for broadcom wifi | 19:43 |
| tyler_ | And it's not the job of Canonical to provide help for users to have a better experience if the own a nvidia card. They do it anyway. | 19:43 |
| tyler_ | CosmoHill: Yes, like that. | 19:44 |
| CosmoHill | ah yes about the wiki | 19:44 |
| CosmoHill | is it possible to change the default for the search bar from "go to" to "search" | 19:45 |
| smoku | tyler_: I'm sure once Nvidia joins Meego foundation, we'll have their drivers as integraded as Intel ones. :) | 19:45 |
| CosmoHill | that way it would search the wiki instead of telling you you don't have permission to edit it | 19:45 |
| tyler_ | arjan: I'm not on the MeeGo team. I was just asking if there was going to be an 'easy' way to install proprietary drivers. | 19:45 |
| CosmoHill | tyler_: I'll have a play and see if i can make a shell script for meego | 19:45 |
| CosmoHill | (but anyone else is free to do it instead) | 19:45 |
| gour | smoku: then it means that ati folks is doomed... | 19:45 |
| arjan | technically you asked if we were going to officially support the prop. drivers. | 19:46 |
| smoku | gour: they can join too :) AFAIK there's no restrictions | 19:46 |
| gour | smoku: well, all i'd like to have (for development) is to be able to run meego under vbox as i did with moblin | 19:47 |
| hylix_ | noone has an idea ? | 19:47 |
| tyler_ | CosmoHill: Thanks. | 19:48 |
| CosmoHill | I'm not making any promises tho | 19:48 |
| tyler_ | CosmoHill: Haha, I'm thanking you for the offer really. | 19:48 |
| CosmoHill | :) | 19:49 |
| tyler_ | I could probably install it manually... it would just be a pain. | 19:49 |
| CosmoHill | arjan: what did moblin come with? | 19:49 |
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| CosmoHill | was it just vesa? | 19:50 |
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| arjan | CosmoHill: moblin has intel graphics and vesa | 19:50 |
| arjan | same deal basically | 19:50 |
| arjan | all open graphics drivers that work with the UI | 19:50 |
| CosmoHill | cos I could get moblin to boot on my laptop | 19:51 |
| arjan | (the UI has pretty high demands for graphics driver features/quality... for the intel driver we found and fixed many many issues) | 19:51 |
| CosmoHill | I wouldn't mind a slow interface as long as it allowed me to get the drivers | 19:52 |
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| CosmoHill | i don't want it to be like installing the graphics drivers on a computer using a serial cable | 19:53 |
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| tyler_ | What I'm going to have to do is install Fedora on one partition for the games and MeeGo on the second partition for other stuff. | 19:54 |
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| CosmoHill | I wonder if I have enough free space on my hard drive | 19:55 |
| CosmoHill | I might have to replace RHEL6 but I don't want too cos that took me a day to boot | 19:55 |
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| CosmoHill | did anyone in here download the meego image from cross-lfs.org/~cosmo ? | 20:01 |
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| CosmoHill | If you did can you let me know if it worked? | 20:02 |
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| tyler_ | arjan: Is there going to better codec support for MeeGo then there was for Moblin? I.e, will there be a user friendly way to install codecs to play mp3 files and watch DVDs? | 20:13 |
| arjan | we're trying to see how to do this legally | 20:13 |
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| CosmoHill | i think slaine was doing something about VLC for meego | 20:14 |
| arjan | since someone needs to pay the per-unit fee, we need to figure out how this all works | 20:14 |
| RST38h | arjan: separate package that a user would download later | 20:14 |
| tyler_ | I don't know how feasible this is, but what about a dedicated optional repository that is added by the user? | 20:15 |
| tyler_ | And a how-to guide that pops up on install? | 20:15 |
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| CosmoHill | post-install would be better | 20:15 |
| CosmoHill | a webpage that opens first boot? | 20:15 |
| tyler_ | Not only better, but also legal. | 20:15 |
| tyler_ | Yeah, something like that. | 20:16 |
| arjan | tyler_: if we help it too much its' likely no longer legal | 20:16 |
| arjan | "assisting with a crime" is also a problem usually ;) | 20:16 |
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| arjan | rather just do it correctly | 20:16 |
| arjan | (since both LF and Intel are US companies this matters anyway) | 20:16 |
| CosmoHill | "It was nokia" | 20:16 |
| arjan | (oh and the assumption that software patents don't matter for europe is ... dubious at best ;-) | 20:17 |
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| tyler_ | I was just thinking that something similar to Medibuntu for Ubuntu would be helpful until legal issues were sorted out. | 20:19 |
| * CosmoHill is reading about libCSS | 20:19 | |
| CosmoHill | "Many GNU/Linux distributions do not contain libdvdcss due to fears of running afoul of DMCA-style laws, however they may provide the tools to let the user install it themselves." | 20:19 |
| CosmoHill | tyler_: we seem to be on the same track :p | 20:19 |
| * arjan tries to find how to go from a QImage to a QGraphicsLayoutItem | 20:20 | |
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| CosmoHill | I swear i read on wikipedia that VLC was illegal in France because of libdvdcss :/ | 20:21 |
| tyler_ | Does anyone know how the Linux Mint team gets away with packaging it with their distro? | 20:22 |
| w00t_ | arjan: not sure what QGLI is, but if you're trying to render a QImage in a QGraphicsView, you'd want QGraphicsItem (or, depending on your needs, QGraphicsWidget) | 20:22 |
| w00t_ | arjan: #qt is often a help, too | 20:22 |
| koupsaa | vlc illegal in france? i think not | 20:22 |
| thiago | QGLI is one of the two base-classes of QGraphicsWidget | 20:22 |
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| * arjan looks up QGrpahicsItem | 20:22 | |
| thiago | you want a widget that displays images | 20:22 |
| thiago | there's QGraphicsPixmapItem, but it's not a layout item | 20:22 |
| CosmoHill | hey thiago | 20:23 |
| thiago | hi cosmo | 20:23 |
| CosmoHill | not a bank hoilday for you then? | 20:23 |
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| thiago | no | 20:23 |
| thiago | finally a Monday that isn't a public holiday | 20:23 |
| arjan | ah via QGraphicsPixmapItem | 20:23 |
| * arjan already has a layout thing | 20:24 | |
| thiago | on the widget model, you use QLabel to display images | 20:24 |
| arjan | just need to plump pictures | 20:24 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it's memorial day here. | 20:24 |
| arjan | a label of pictures? ok ;) | 20:24 |
| thiago | QLabel displays images too :-) | 20:25 |
| w00t_ | QLabel has a setPixmap method | 20:25 |
| thiago | TSCHAKeee2: what are you memorising today? | 20:25 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 laughs | 20:25 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | good question :P | 20:25 |
| thiago | our next public holiday is Christmas | 20:25 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | arjan: what are you coding? | 20:26 |
| arjan | trying to make a simple touch app likea remote control | 20:27 |
| arjan | show a grid of pictures, and let the user click them | 20:27 |
| * thiago goes have a barbecue | 20:27 | |
| thiago | 7:30 pm, we've got another 2-3 hours of daylight | 20:28 |
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| CosmoHill | http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20100528/183038/ << cool, USB monitor | 20:28 |
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| tyler_ | I'm off. Thanks CosmoHill for feedback and thanks arjan for the useful information. | 20:31 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 20:31 |
| w00t_ | thiago: enjoy | 20:31 |
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| arjan | ah sod it | 20:35 |
| * arjan sticks with text labels | 20:35 | |
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| w00t_ | arjan: if you want, I can give you a small example | 20:39 |
| arjan | would be much appreciated | 20:39 |
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| w00t_ | k, I'll see what I can do tonight.. got a mail address, though? I need to run off to make dinner and stuff for now | 20:40 |
| w00t_ | (also, it's probably good if you tell me exactly what you want :-P) | 20:40 |
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| arjan | arjan@linux.intel.com | 20:41 |
| arjan | basically I have a grid layout in my Qgraphicsview | 20:42 |
| arjan | and want to stick QImage pictures in a set of grid items | 20:42 |
| w00t_ | okay | 20:42 |
| w00t_ | should be possible | 20:42 |
| arjan | which needs a QGraphicsLayoutItem compatible class | 20:42 |
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| arjan | don't kill yourself over it; I can always ask folks at work tomorrow | 20:43 |
| w00t_ | nah, it's np | 20:43 |
| arjan | but if it's easy it's very appreciated | 20:43 |
| w00t_ | I need things to entertain myself :-) | 20:43 |
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| arjan | worst case I need to subclass/etc | 20:45 |
| arjan | but one would think that that would not be needed for just showing an image | 20:45 |
| w00t_ | from thinking about it and digging around a bit (I'm a relative newcomer to QGV), you will need to subclass | 20:48 |
| w00t_ | easiest route is QGraphicsWidget, alternative is multiple inheritance: QGraphicsLayoutItem and QGraphicsItem | 20:49 |
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| w00t_ | QGV doesn't really offer a lot of advanced stuff, it's just the building blocks stuff gets built on | 20:49 |
| w00t_ | (somewhat unfortunately, since it seems a lot of reinventing the wheel gets done) | 20:49 |
| w00t_ | now, dinner.. i'll hack up an example when i get back | 20:49 |
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| CosmoHill | w00t_: enjoy | 20:50 |
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| Bughead | Hi all! | 21:28 |
| Bughead | Any sucess in runing MeeGo inside VirtualBox? | 21:28 |
| Bughead | It just stuck in the background ... after boot. | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | not yet, i think | 21:30 |
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| CosmoHill | meego requires 3D graphic acceleration that virtualbox is unable to support at this time | 21:31 |
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| Bughead | hmmm ... | 21:32 |
| Bughead | It will not boot in my MacBook I guess .. | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=202 | 21:33 |
| Bughead | Thank you Stskeeps. I will read the thread! | 21:34 |
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| maragato | what's the crash reporting tool being used by Meego? | 21:39 |
| maragato | bug buddy? | 21:39 |
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| arjan | abrt | 21:42 |
| maragato | arjan, thanks | 21:43 |
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| maragato | arjan, how is the crash information being stored? (I'm assuming the info is being send to a Meego database) | 21:48 |
| arjan | it goes to a simple database | 21:49 |
| arjan | primarily for getting statistics | 21:49 |
| arjan | so we know which bugs are hit the most | 21:49 |
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| arjan | (so that we then fix those first) | 21:49 |
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| maragato | arjan, where's this db hosted? better yet, is the data freely available to anyone? | 21:50 |
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| arjan | it's on a meego server | 21:51 |
| arjan | I don't think this data is freely available due to privacy issues | 21:51 |
| arjan | but maybe the overview data can be, would need to check | 21:51 |
| maragato | ok, just checking. I'm looking at how much we know about crashes happening in the wild. | 21:52 |
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| GeorgiusCz | Hello, I have a problem. I need to boot the rescue image, but according to http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd I should download the N900 kernel & rescue initrd, but I cannot find eiter. And I do not have flasher-3.5 so far. Can you help me, please, to obtain those ? | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | GeorgiusCz: ok, first off, what do you need the rescue image for n900 for? | 21:53 |
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| GeorgiusCz | N900 reported some database corruption in the contacts and I was stupid enough to reboot the device | 21:54 |
| GeorgiusCz | Since it is not able to boot, recpectively it boots up to "hands shaking" and then reboots again | 21:54 |
| GeorgiusCz | If there is a SIM present, it goes for "enter pin" screen, but it does not react and boots within a second or son | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | fair enough, hang on a second | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | will you help updating the documentation if i find you the right links? | 21:55 |
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| GeorgiusCz | If switched on with USB in, it mounts as a mass storage, but only /home/user/MyDocs | 21:55 |
| GeorgiusCz | yes, I would be happy to help | 21:56 |
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| Stskeeps | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/nokia-n900-rescue-initrd-0.1-1.3.armv7l.rpm , http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/core/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/kernel-n900-2.6.33.3-11.2.armv7l.rpm i believe | 21:57 |
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| Stskeeps | those should match | 21:58 |
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| GeorgiusCz | OK, I will firstr try them and then I will be updating the docs ... http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb as a flesher is OK ? | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | right | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | and remember you can just load the kernel+initrd, don't have to flash them | 22:00 |
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| GeorgiusCz | how do I do it ? I am just downloading flasher ... | 22:01 |
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| Stskeeps | ah, the wiki page says that pretty specifically | 22:03 |
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| GeorgiusCz | you mean sudo flasher-3.5 -k boot/<vmlinuz>-n900 -n boot/initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay=1 root=/dev/ram0" ? | 22:03 |
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| Stskeeps | right | 22:03 |
| GeorgiusCz | OK, just last question, is it safe to launch it with SDHC card inside ? | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 22:04 |
| GeorgiusCz | Thank you so far, I will be back after trying ... | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | unless you usb export and overwrite the sd obviously ;) | 22:05 |
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| GeorgiusCz | Stskeeps: I have not used RedHat for ages (last try RH 7.0) so I am not familiar with rpms. rpm2cpio nokia-n900-rescue-initrd-0.1-1.3.armv7l.rpm |cpio -vid vmlinuz-n900 does not do anythig | 22:13 |
| GeorgiusCz | it claims :3293 blocks | 22:13 |
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| GeorgiusCz | and does not create any file | 22:13 |
| GeorgiusCz | jimmac: greetings to western Bohemia from Prague ! | 22:14 |
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| Stskeeps | GeorgiusCz: hmm? should generate boot/ for instance i think | 22:17 |
| GeorgiusCz | it was my feeling as well | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | oh, wait, not cpio -vid vmlinuz-n900 | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | just cpio -vid | 22:18 |
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| GeorgiusCz | cpio: ./usr/share/doc/nokia-n900-rescue-initrd-0.1/COPYING: Cannot open: Permission denied, otherwise seems ok so fat | 22:20 |
| GeorgiusCz | far | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | you're not unpacking into your root filesystem, right? :P | 22:21 |
| GeorgiusCz | nope, I am using Linux for 10 years now ;-) | 22:21 |
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| GeorgiusCz | Suitable USB device not found, waiting. | 22:25 |
| GeorgiusCz | Then I connected the device, inserted the battery and ... | 22:26 |
| GeorgiusCz | guess what, It was just mounted as a storage and the flasher did not do anything :-( | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | turn off n900 completely | 22:26 |
| GeorgiusCz | it was | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | ok, battery out, start flasher, plug in usb cable in both ends, put in battery. | 22:26 |
| GeorgiusCz | exactly what I did | 22:27 |
| clipartcat | you need to press u | 22:27 |
| GeorgiusCz | OH YES , I was using the wiki and it is not there !! | 22:27 |
| GeorgiusCz | going to do second attempt | 22:27 |
| * Stskeeps has yet to need to use 'u', but hey :P | 22:27 | |
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| GeorgiusCz | did not help | 22:31 |
| GeorgiusCz | tried twice. First U, then the cable, then battery | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | that's odd. are you running flasher as root? | 22:32 |
| GeorgiusCz | obviously | 22:32 |
| * Stskeeps ponders | 22:32 | |
| GeorgiusCz | maybe mass storage driver has to be removed ? | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | or phonet | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | can i see your command line for flasher? | 22:33 |
| GeorgiusCz | sudo flasher-3.5 -k boot/vmlinuz-2.6.33.3-11.2-n900 -n boot/initrd.img-rescue-2.6.33.3-11.2-n900 -l -b"rootdelay=1 root=/dev/ram0" | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | looks right | 22:33 |
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| Stskeeps | what OS? | 22:33 |
| ZogG | GeorgiusCz no space needed after -b? | 22:33 |
| ZogG | -b"r | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | no | 22:33 |
| ZogG | i tried =) | 22:34 |
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| GeorgiusCz | maybe the battery not fully charged ? | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | not impossible, but it's odd flasher doesn't pick up your n900 | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | last idea is rebooting your machine | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:36 |
| GeorgiusCz | I am running Linux, you know ;-) | 22:37 |
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| GeorgiusCz | Ubuntu 9.10 32bit | 22:37 |
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| Stskeeps | i know, but that kernel has phonet and stuff kernel driver | 22:39 |
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| Stskeeps | sec.. | 22:40 |
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| Stskeeps | rmmod cdc-phonet, might have to temporary blacklist it | 22:41 |
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| GeorgiusCz | ERROR: Module cdc_phonet does not exist in /proc/modules | 22:42 |
| GeorgiusCz | lsmod|grep phonet is empty | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | could i see your lsmod? | 22:42 |
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| GeorgiusCz | \me is going to flood ;-) | 22:43 |
| GeorgiusCz | Module Size Used by nls_iso8859_1 3740 0 nls_cp437 5372 0 vfat 10716 0 fat 51452 1 vfat binfmt_misc 8356 1 vboxnetadp 7296 0 vboxnetflt 14344 0 vboxdrv 177320 2 vboxnetadp,vboxnetflt dm_crypt 12928 0 snd_hda_codec_idt 59876 1 snd_emu10k1_synth 6140 0 snd_em | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | is that a real machine, fwiw? | 22:43 |
| GeorgiusCz | yes | 22:43 |
| GeorgiusCz | http://pastebin.com/DxahjNUf | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | in a usb hub or straight port? | 22:46 |
| GeorgiusCz | usb hub | 22:48 |
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| GeorgiusCz | can make a difference ? | 22:48 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | try directly in port | 22:50 |
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| GeorgiusCz | great, I have a shell ! | 22:56 |
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| GeorgiusCz | but only for few seconds :-( then mass storage starts up | 22:56 |
| GeorgiusCz | :-( | 22:56 |
| GeorgiusCz | any idea ? | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | did it show a shell on the device? | 22:59 |
| GeorgiusCz | yes | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | and then it showed nokia logo? | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | .. did you hold down 'U' key by chance? | 22:59 |
| GeorgiusCz | yes, pressed and hold up to shell start | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | well, that's why | 23:00 |
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| Stskeeps | sec | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | Toggle USB storage mode on/off (U) | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | function of the shell ;) | 23:01 |
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| GeorgiusCz | even with U and report that mass storage is of, it swithes to that mode (with no console) | 23:13 |
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| GeorgiusCz | neither on nor off make any difference :-( | 23:15 |
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| GeorgiusCz | wiki updated with the info I know so far | 23:21 |
| GeorgiusCz | Stskeeps: any idea ? | 23:21 |
| CosmoHill | alt + F4 ? | 23:21 |
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| Stskeeps | GeorgiusCz: avoid pressing u | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 23:24 |
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| CosmoHill | hey thiago_home, how was the bbq? | 23:24 |
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| GeorgiusCz | storage 0, networking 0 .. storage0 networking 0 - Nokia logo - reboot | 23:31 |
| GeorgiusCz | :-( | 23:31 |
| GeorgiusCz | I did not touch anything | 23:31 |
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| GeorgiusCz | Stskeeps: strange, isn't it ? | 23:34 |
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| CosmoHill | Tumi_: http://pastebin.cross-lfs.org/6913 << if you're interested, it's my sound system | 23:59 |
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