IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2010-05-18

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chris____Hi all00:15
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CosmoHillhi chris____ with long tail00:16
chris____Dont know how come this tail came in thoug I have ponny00:17
chris____Hey we just found meego is available for N900, we were wondering if meego is put on N900 then will there be any UI?00:18
thiago_homeyes00:19
thiago_homeyou'll have twm and xterm00:19
thiago_home:-)00:19
Stskeepstwm does not come with install00:19
Stskeeps;)00:19
thiago_homeit's not twm? what is it?00:19
chris____:) thats it ??? will there be x11 sort of thing?00:19
thiago_homeno wm?00:19
thiago_homechris____: yes, it will be x1100:19
Stskeepsthiago_home: xterm :P00:19
thiago_homeStskeeps: xterm is not a wm.00:20
thiago_homethe question is whether any wm was running00:20
Stskeepsno, but it just gets placed somewhere :P00:20
Stskeepsand no, no wm running00:20
thiago_homeI see00:20
chris____we are reading blogs and it seems that Nokias QT (dont knwo what does this stands for) can be used as development framwork so to write some sexy app for N900 Where will we get all necessary tool ??00:22
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thiago_homeyes00:23
thiago_homeQt is just Qt, it doesn't expand to anything00:23
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chris____thiago: wondering what is so special about QT as QT nothing else, it neither sounds that catch to me. But any way wheather QT or TQ where can we find all related tools for development for N90000:25
thiago_homethe trademark is Qt, with a lowercase t00:26
thiago_homeall the tools are available for the N90000:27
thiago_homethere's also the Nokia Qt SDK, which is the same interface for the N900 and for Symbian-based devices00:27
thiago_homethere's no MeeGo SDK yet, but there will be soon now00:27
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chris____Yes one of my coll. downloaded that and installed but the tutorial is not talking about Meego and it only talks about Maemo thats where we were looking for some help how to do it on Meego00:28
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chris____Ok you mean more  helpfull stuff will be coming latter, ok any idea when?00:29
thiago_homesoon00:30
chris____Okay Thanx00:31
chris____hope will have it in couple of month00:31
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:50
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Shapeshifter".....techno mage..." that rang a bell01:07
Shapeshifteroh. just realised they were talking about that some hours ago01:07
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hoverbearSO how's meego?01:10
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nizoxaa/g 2201:18
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nizoxoops sry01:20
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slainemorning all10:20
thiago_homemorning slaine10:20
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sx0nmorning10:21
slainenow for some coffee to make it official10:21
* Stskeeps passes slaine the pot of coffee10:22
slainehmmmm, black and smooth. Just the way I like my.....erm.....coffee10:22
slaine;)10:23
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slaineStskeeps: pity none of the TSG answered your query about the big reveals10:26
thiago_homedirk did10:26
Stskeepsdirk isn't in TSG10:26
Stskeeps:P10:26
thiago_homeright, but he's imad's right hand10:27
slaineand pity not a one meego team lead responded to mine10:27
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slainethiago_home: ah, didn't know that10:27
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Stskeepswell, would be good to hear it from them directly as well - i'll be asking on the TSG meeting at least. dirk's opinion was good, but it's difficult to interact with strawmen (bad term, i know) of TSG without knowing they are :)10:28
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Tujuhttp://meego.com/developers/getting-started how one installs a 'meego toolchain' into fedora? or is that just a bundle term for already existing tools?11:56
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Tujuif that requires this http://repo.meego.com/tools/repos/fedora/12/ , it should read on that page.11:57
Tujualso, that repo config could be in rpm so that would install automatically.11:58
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slaineTuju: those tools are for making meego images11:59
slainenothing to do with getting started developing applications11:59
Tujuack11:59
slaineOn the getting started page, they tell you what to install11:59
slainenamely Qt Creator and a compiler tools chain11:59
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Tujuit would be more obvious if it would have a list of software packages for example.12:00
slaineThere's no MeeGo-SDK at present, so a basic Qt application is the way to go for now12:00
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slainewell, each system has it's own packages12:01
slainethere's a certain level of assumption there I guess that you as a developer whould know how to install the developer tools on your host system12:01
Tujuslaine: for example, # yum install 'Qt Creator' --> No package Qt Creator available.12:01
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Tujuslaine: i maintain packages in fedora so i do know something about the topic.12:01
Tujuknowing something doesn't mean that instructions could be clear. :)12:02
slaineTuju: so you're being pedantic to make a point ?12:02
Tujutrying to make a point.12:02
slaineWell, the pages are setup on a wiki for just this reason. Contributions are welcomed to make things easier12:03
Tujufor example, some developing enviroments require some specific versions etc. I started thinking, does this have some kind of chrooted toolchain or are we just using the regular system tools?12:03
Tujui just logged in, so i guess i'm not in the stage of modifying things/telling others, being wiki or not.12:04
stefan99email the mailinglist about your consern and maybe some people will notice it12:06
Tujui think 369 people already did.12:06
stefan99well maybe its not so high on the priority list then12:07
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Tujuso where do i get that 'virtual machine' ?12:13
stefan99well for example here12:14
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stefan99http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/0.9/0.9.80.2.20100512.1/ivi/images/meego-preview-ivi-noemgd-ia32/12:14
stefan99use the iso to install in virtual box12:14
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Tujuack12:15
Tujuthanks12:15
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stefan99its "MeeGo 1.0 In-Vehicle" but pretty much standard desktop with xfce12:16
Ionakka<Tuju> slaine: for example, # yum install 'Qt Creator' --> No package Qt Creator available.   <--- which page says that you can install rpm package named 'Qt Creator'? o.O12:16
Tujuivi stands for something 'in vehicle' ?12:17
stefan99probably12:17
jusliukkivi = in-vehicle information12:17
TujuIonakka: you missed my point but it's okay, nevermind.12:17
stefan99http://www.vimeo.com/1177973012:17
stefan99there is a video of which someone made12:17
stefan99one of my best sentences.. ;)12:18
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slainesorry, was away from keyboard, packing up some gear for a courier12:19
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slaineTuju: well, as suggested, contributions are welcome. Most of us here are like yourself12:20
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Tujuhow is this meego in license point of view, is there a some kind of diagram of components somewhere and list of their licenses?12:21
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Stskeepscore system and UX'es are fully open source, hardware adaptations may occasionally be more usable with closed source drivers12:23
Tujuhttp://meego.com/about/licensing-policy12:23
CorsacStskeeps: nice way to say it :)12:23
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slaineIs there still the issue with copyright waiver on patches  ?12:26
smokuespecially with you're chosing between closed drivers and no drivers :>12:26
Stskeepsslaine: as far as i can tell, it wouldn't be a waiver, but it would be an assertion that you own the code/can push legally and do not push illegal stuff etc..12:27
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slaineStskeeps: ok, thats different to what I'm referring to12:29
Stskeepsslaine: (which fwiw is a fair thing to do :P)12:29
slainebasically, on Moblin, if you submit a patch, you've to give up all rights to it, iirc12:29
Stskeepscopyright waiver is worse12:29
slaineyeah, that's what I'm talking about12:30
slaineMoblin has that12:30
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Stskeepsworth starting a thread about?12:30
Stskeepsah12:31
Stskeepsno12:31
StskeepsMeeGo project will neither require nor accept copyright assignment for code contributions. The principle behind this is on the one hand to avoid extra bureaucracy or other obstacles discouraging contributions. On the other hand the idea is to emphasize that contributors themselves carry the rights and responsibilities associated with their code. MeeGo is a common concern of its project community and all participants should represent ...12:31
Stskeeps... themselves and continuously influence the result through their own contribution.12:31
Tujuwhat i read, the UX will be under proprietary license then.12:32
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Stskeepswhat makes you say that?12:32
Tuju'framework tech must allow linking of proprietary components' sounds like it.12:33
Stskeepsno, that just means that there's room for differentiation12:33
* Stskeeps personally doesn't mind closed plugins if the framework's sole purpose isn't to provide for closed plugins12:34
Tujuwhich is quite blurry concept.12:34
Stskeepsthat's what might come on a vendor device.12:34
tmztwhat legal framework is that supposed to fall into?12:34
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stefan99closed source etc has a place in linux, better get used to it12:36
stefan99look at ubuntu one12:36
stefan99it will grow more and more12:36
Stskeeps:nod:12:37
Stskeepsyou're only as good as your drivers, properitary or otherwise12:37
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Siva_hi guys..14:58
Siva_can any body provide a link to source code of the meego webruntime....14:58
Siva_any ideas...?14:59
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zaheermit is not released yet i believe15:02
Tumi_is there any idea about release date?15:02
zaheermTumi_, meego 1.0 with netbook ux is due in may15:03
fraggelnzaheerm: and meego for n900? :D15:03
Siva_oh is it15:03
Siva_but does nokia n900 which is a meego phone doesnt support webruntime...?15:03
zaheermfraggeln, meego 1.0 with handset ux is due shortly after the nertbook ux one15:03
zaheermSiva_, the n900 runs maemo 5 and does not have web runtime on it yet15:04
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fraggelnzaheerm: cool.15:04
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Siva_oh thanks zaheer......the memo current release does have wrt...? or still they are implementing...it..?15:05
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Siva_i mean meego15:05
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slaineNothing tangible has been released yet. you might be able to install it from the repo's, not sure15:06
slaineI'd give the handset ux release at least a month after the netbook release15:06
zaheermSiva_, no Web runtime is not available yet15:07
Siva_thanks zaheer..15:07
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zaheermSiva_, however http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-netbook-ux/google-gadgets-meego is available, this tries to make google gadgets (the ones on igoogle) run on meego15:11
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Siva_oh..15:12
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stskeepsiemorning DawnFoster16:12
DawnFostermorning stskeepsie16:13
DawnFosterstskeeps: the meego meetbot seems to be missing from meego-meeting?16:14
stskeepsieyes, hence my special nick. I think it's just a temporary network outage at where i host that and my IRC client16:15
stskeepsieas all the other servers are offline as well16:15
stskeepsiea meeting scheduled for today?16:15
DawnFosterhmmm, we have a meeting in 45 min16:15
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DawnFostercommunity office meeting16:15
stskeepsiei'll set up an emergency one then. hang o16:16
stskeepsieb16:16
stskeepsien16:16
DawnFosterthanks16:16
X-FadeLast resort is to post the irc log itself though.16:16
stskeepsieyeah, i can always replay it if need be16:17
DawnFosterX-Fade: exactly16:17
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DawnFosterstskeeps: in other words, we'd issue the meetbot commands, and you'd run meetbot on the logs later (like we did to fix last week?)16:18
stskeepsieyes, but i'm working on getting a bot up anyway :)16:18
DawnFostercoolio16:18
timeless_mbphi DawnFoster16:21
DawnFosterhi timeless_mbp16:21
timeless_mbp17621 timeless  25   0  521m 513m 2016 R  5.4 30.2 109:24.90 genxref16:22
* timeless_mbp sighs16:22
timeless_mbp19 97734 of 304234... 209 defs16:22
javispedromxr?16:22
timeless_mbpyeah16:22
javispedroi'm seeing that the parser seems less accurate as of lately16:23
timeless_mbpit's um.. "not done" with repo.meego.com16:23
javispedrospecially the search results page tends to confuse declarations, definitions and uses16:23
timeless_mbpyeah, those bits were never perfect16:23
timeless_mbpheck, its C handling tended to double things :)16:23
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* timeless_mbp should try to fix that16:23
javispedroit's a hard problem either way16:24
javispedroand at least it's usable, so not really a problem16:24
timeless_mbpMem:   1740944k total,  1726788k used,    14156k free,   101024k buffers16:25
timeless_mbphrm, i suppose the fact that mxr is using 500mb of ram and there's only 14mb of ram left when it's only 1/3rd through the parsing could be a problem :(16:25
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slainethiago: got Qt using the GTK+ style, thanks for the type (ran qtconfig-qt4 and changed from Default to GTK+)16:32
slaineWhere does that setting get saved though ?16:32
slaineI want to include the setting in an /etc/skel16:32
thiago~/.config/Trolltech.conf16:33
thiagobut there's a default file that is read16:33
thiagolet me read qsettings sources16:33
* timeless_mbp chuckles16:33
CosmoHillhey slaine16:33
slaineHey16:33
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luistcan anyone here help me with some moblin graphic problem? :)16:35
slaineask and we'll try16:35
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thiagoslaine: it also reads /etc/xdg/Trolltech.conf, if I'm reading this right16:36
CosmoHillluist: does it invole nvidia?16:36
thiagoand /Trolltech.conf, which makes no sense16:36
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luistCosmoHill, hm... i rebuilt a moblin application to run in suse 11.1, but im getting error: ClutterGLX-CRITICAL **: Unable to find suitable GL visual.   and it wont load the graphic interface because of that... in an specific computer i installed a video driver and it worked... but i cant make it work on intel video cards... (it works in suse 11.2 in all computers) what am i missing?16:37
slainethiago: I assume the /etc/xdg/Trolltech.conf is the same format as the one I just created in ~/.config ?16:37
* CosmoHill should have stayed quiet16:37
thiagoslaine: yes16:37
luistCosmoHill, true :D16:38
CosmoHillif I'm honest, I have no idea16:38
CosmoHillI just came online to find one person who isn't there16:38
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thiagoslaine: standard .desktop-style cascading configuration file16:38
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slainethiago: cheers16:39
sankarHi16:39
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thiagobut it's not a .desktop file, it's a QSettings INI-style file16:39
sankarI would like to know whether the ofono telephony stack provide any apis for the applications?16:39
thiagoQSettings can read .desktop files, but it can save things that aren't .desktop16:39
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thiagosankar: it does16:40
slaineluist: FunkyPenguin might be able to help out there ???16:40
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sankaris it like a direct c api or how is it defined, can you please elaborate more on this16:40
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sankarfrom the code reading it looks like, the ofono stack exposes certain dbus methods to the applications and applications need to call these methods16:41
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luistFunkyPenguin, wake up :D16:42
* CosmoHill hates his assignment16:43
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CosmoHillonly in project management could you get a difference of £1.2 million between two options16:43
FunkyPenguinluist, sorry, i missed your issue :)16:44
luistFunkyPenguin, hm... i rebuilt a moblin application to run in suse 11.1, but im getting error: ClutterGLX-CRITICAL **: Unable to find suitable GL visual.   and it wont load the graphic interface because of that... in an specific computer i installed a video driver and it worked... but i cant make it work on intel video cards... (it works in suse 11.2 in all computers) what am i missing?16:44
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FunkyPenguinluist, what graphics chipset?16:45
FunkyPenguinI didnt have any issues with 2.0 or 2.1 on 11.116:45
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luistFunkyPenguin, i tried with sis671, but i installed the driver and it worked.. but i cant make it work with intel16:48
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luistFunkyPenguin, it works on suse 11.2 so i think im missing something that is not the driver16:51
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sankarHow does the ofono stack communicate with the vendor specific cellular stacks16:58
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lcuksankar, shouldnt most people not care?  ie most will treat ofono as black box to do its job?  or are you tihnking from a specific vendor pov?17:00
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sankarmy question is it uses the gstreamer to exchange the at commands, for standard at based modem, same is the case with the vendor specif ones?17:01
luistFunkyPenguin, this is how its running on suse 11.2: http://imagebin.org/9732717:02
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timeless_mbpsankar: that seems unlikely17:07
timeless_mbppresumably ofono is pluggable17:08
FunkyPenguinluist, i think it might be a case of some funky patches needed to get things running smooth on 11.1 - I forget tbh17:08
timeless_mbpand i don't think that 'at' commands are part of an audio stack...17:08
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timeless_mbpso i suspect you're at least confusing your stacks17:08
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speculatrixI have a US15W/GMA500-based netbook (fujitsu u820), and I am trying out meego IVI. It boots up fine, but if I choose the install option and try for custom partitioning, it can't start the partitioner and then wants to reboot.17:09
FunkyPenguinluist, im currently trying to make sure the last of the packages are in for Factory/11.3 and things seem to be going well17:09
speculatrixI downloaded the ISO from here and copied it to a flash drive... http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/0.9/0.9.80.2.20100512.1/ivi/images/meego-preview-ivi-noemgd-ia32/17:09
sankarI agree at commands are not part of audio stack but they are part of cellular stack.17:09
sankarmy question is, whether new plugins can be added, which will interact with the cellular stacks17:10
speculatrixmeego runs fine "live" booted off usb flash drive17:10
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speculatrixis this a known problem? should I report it as a bug?17:11
luistFunkyPenguin, well maybe i can make it uses less (or none) graphic resources ?17:11
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luistFunkyPenguin, i just need this application to work asap...17:11
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luistFunkyPenguin, this is the configure.ac http://pastie.org/96560317:15
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slainespeculatrix: I've not tried it, but that sounds like a bug17:21
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speculatrixnever mind, I have created bug report: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=226117:31
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* stskeepsie can only hope the karma discussion dies down after a decision has been made and argued17:41
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* slaine thinks karma is a waste of time17:46
stskeepsiei think metrics are more flexible and fits into more real-life situations17:47
slainenod17:47
stskeepsielike, if we have a meetup for up-and-coming team members, we can measure/establish that with metrics, if we want a certain focus on a conference, we can choose from a wide data set17:47
stskeepsie:P17:47
bergiemetrics are definitely needed17:49
bergiethat is what a karma system would build on anyway :-)17:50
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stskeepsiegoing full circle, it bends down to a bit of e-penis length competition since all the other uses are possible to measure with metrics :)17:51
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GAN900Hey, those comparisons help drive activity.17:51
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slaineGAN900: not healthy activity though :17:52
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javispedrohealthy computing? where17:53
javispedro?17:53
slaineWhat's OSU ???17:54
stskeepsieslaine: osuosl17:54
stskeepsie(google it)17:54
slaineAh, thanks17:55
stskeepsiegreat place for hosting17:55
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yaledioma.17:56
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TermanaThat was assuredly exciting I'm sure17:58
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GAN900slaine, depends18:05
GAN900slaine, personally, competing with timeless for top slot on bugs filed keeps me filing.18:06
GAN900Seems healthy enough to me.18:06
slaineI was kidding in reference to stskeepsie comment18:06
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GAN900slaine, ah.18:07
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timeless_mbpand i don't even try!18:07
* GAN900 is only vaguely paying attention to things GAN900 isn't saying. :P18:07
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timeless_mbpeep18:07
timeless_mbpalthough i did just crash excel18:07
CosmoHill:o18:07
timeless_mbp.mac18:07
CosmoHillI've crashed word 2010 a few times18:07
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GAN900Too bad that's not a Maemo product. :P18:07
timeless_mbpthis is 200818:07
CosmoHillwell 2010 comes out next month so...18:08
CosmoHill^.^18:08
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* CosmoHill stabs MS project19:18
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robtaylorCosmoHill: i feel for you..19:19
CosmoHillthanks19:20
CosmoHillfor each resource it gives me two team group error messages19:21
CosmoHillit might as well go going "something bad has happened but I can't tell you"19:21
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Unmenschhi, will meego be officially supported by nokia on the n900 or just be ported?19:31
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StskeepsDawnFoster: meeting bot back up, log put up at http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-05-18-14.00.html20:16
DawnFosterstskeeps: great, thanks. I'm also happy to hear that your servers are back up :)20:17
TSCHAKeee:D20:17
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Stskeepsso am i :P20:18
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Stskeepsit's an lbt abroad!20:59
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* an_lbt_abroad reclines on his deck chair20:59
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Stskeepshow's the weather up there?21:01
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an_lbt_abroadreally sunny21:04
an_lbt_abroadI bought shades 8)21:04
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Stskeepshehe21:04
Stskeepsfloods and rain here - was supposed to go hiking in slovakian mountains this weekend, which seems unlikely, even though we're going with people who think it's a perfectly fine vacation to "go help secure the area with sandbags"21:05
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Stskeeps(not my words)21:05
* an_lbt_abroad gapes21:05
an_lbt_abroaderr, no thanks21:06
an_lbt_abroadalthough hiking appeals... it's been a while21:06
DawnFosterStskeeps: I can think of better things to do on vacation :)21:06
an_lbt_abroadI'm just drafting up a 'policy' proposal for tomorrow night21:06
lcukStskeeps, take bucket and spade and play ontop of the new artificial beach21:06
Stskeepsonly time i'm doing that is when at a music festival, rain has been pouring for ages, and we need to protect the tents and beer from water.21:07
CosmoHillbefore I had a laptop I spent a lot of time reading on hoildays21:07
pupnik_:)21:07
an_lbt_abroadparaphrased: the wiki is authoritative; it's OK to report a bugs if a package != wiki21:07
CosmoHillthen i got a laptop and worked out how to teather my phone to it21:07
an_lbt_abroad(wrt packaging)21:08
an_lbt_abroadtether21:08
Stskeepsan_lbt_abroad: i still wonder how packaging/guidelines can sanely exist in a wiki21:08
Stskeepsie, without being locked somehow21:08
an_lbt_abroadah, that's part deux21:08
an_lbt_abroadall changes to the wiki should go via the mailing list and be approved by the packaging team21:09
an_lbt_abroadwe may have to lock it but I hope not21:09
an_lbt_abroadright now I can (and do) just go in and change packaging policy21:09
lcukwhy lock?  its a wiki it has full history if something isnt liked it can be reverted21:10
an_lbt_abroadindeed lcuk... and typos and stuff21:10
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DawnFosterhaving wiki changes go through a mailing list is probably counterintuitive for most people21:10
pupnik_agree with lcuk21:11
lcukdiscussing whether to keep the changes is where the ML/discussion helps21:11
an_lbt_abroadhttp://pastie.org/96610321:11
an_lbt_abroadDawnFoster: I agree - but it isn't a normal wiki page21:11
DawnFosterright, but people assume that it's on a wiki, so editing is ok21:12
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an_lbt_abroadYep... we'll need to fix that. Maybe pages tagged 'policy' should have a header?21:12
DawnFosternot that you can't do it, but I expect that people will forget that certain pages are "special" and can't be edited21:12
an_lbt_abroadEither that or we set up another website to host the content21:12
an_lbt_abroadwhich sucks21:13
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an_lbt_abroador lock it ... which also sucks21:13
DawnFosteror just deal with people forgetting and be prepared for a few reverts :)21:13
lcukand if it grows to be a problem reexamine process21:14
an_lbt_abroadyup ... minimal suckage.... and a chance to recruit the writer21:14
DawnFosteragree with lcuk21:14
an_lbt_abroadso I put the draft email in the pastie... thoughts anyone?21:15
an_lbt_abroadI'd like to run it up to the TSG tomorrow21:15
DawnFosterwe're already finalizing the TSG agenda & the agenda already might be too long21:16
DawnFosterYou might need to wait for the next one.21:16
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DawnFosterIn general, we start working on finalizing the agenda around 48 hours before the meeting - best shot to get into the TSG is to have your items prepped on the Friday before the TSG.21:17
DawnFosterwe might be able to squeeze it in, but just letting you know it may not make it this week21:18
an_lbt_abroadDawnFoster: mmm... OK. This is coming from our product management at nokia. We'd appreciate it21:18
DawnFosterultimately, Imad and Valtteri make the call on what gets on the agenda, but I think they might have finalized the agenda already21:19
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an_lbt_abroadOK. I'll drop it into the wiki anyway. If we have to wait another couple of weeks I'm *sure* they'll understand ;)21:20
DawnFostercool, thanks21:21
DawnFosterbtw, where are you vacationing abroad?21:21
an_lbt_abroadHelsinki21:21
an_lbt_abroadnot quite a vacation....21:22
an_lbt_abroadmore a long commute21:22
DawnFosterI was picturing something more exotic - like palm trees :)21:22
an_lbt_abroadI picture that too...21:22
an_lbt_abroadand they think I'm just asleep in the meetings...21:22
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StskeepsDawnFoster: actually helsinki weather isn't half bad :)21:23
DawnFosterstskeeps: unless there are palm trees, it doesn't count (just kidding)21:24
Stskeepshehe21:24
DawnFosterApparently, I must be ready for another beach vacation21:24
Stskeepsi can imagine21:24
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Stskeepsmy vacation this summer will probably be a week worth of good music, beer and living in a tent at a music festival. usually recharges me with positive energy for the rest of the year :)21:26
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lcukDawnFoster, i concurr with these guys, helsinki is a lovely city21:33
Stskeepswhen it's not snowing and you slip at each step due to ice21:33
lcuklol yeah21:33
* Stskeeps had his honeymoon in helsinki and still isn't sure that was a good choice21:34
lcukit wasnt helsinki that was the problem, it was that nokia were your best man21:34
DawnFosterI'll have to find an excuse to visit (during the summer) :)21:34
lcukDawnFoster, indeed21:35
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arjandon't go to helsinki in summer21:38
arjanit never gets dark21:38
* arjan votes for mid may ;)21:38
bzhbHi, I tried to execute the "widgetsgallery" demo from MeeGo Touch UI framework core, but I get that error:21:38
bzhbMRemoteThemeDaemon: Failed to connect to theme daemon (IPC)21:38
bzhbMThemeDaemon - base theme directory not found: /usr/local/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libmeegotouchcore/style. Please (re)install meegotouchtheme package.21:38
inzarjan, sure it does21:38
arjaninz: it gets darkER, but not really dark :)21:38
lcukarjan, better than visiting in winter21:38
lcukat least you can see the city21:38
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bzhbI tried to reinstall duitheme, ut it doesn't solve the problem21:40
bzhbany idea ?21:40
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an_lbt_abroadDawnFoster: I've added it here: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings#Backlog_of_Proposed_Topics   I really think this is a 'rubber stamp'21:41
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an_lbt_abroadarjan: hey :)  take a look at this for me?  :  http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Policy21:42
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an_lbt_abroadabout to send a mail to -dev.... just soliciting comments before I hit send (and putting it on the wiki so DawnFoster can add it to the TSG for tomorrow)21:43
DawnFosterI wonder if that really needs to go to the TSG?21:43
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DawnFostercould it be resolved at a lower level in the project?21:44
DawnFosternot everything needs to go to the TSG.21:44
VDVsxan_lbt_abroad, coming to HELL soon ? :D21:44
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VDVsxits true almost 22h and still a lot of light :D21:45
DawnFosterlet's start with meego-dev and only take it to the TSG if we need some kind of resolution21:45
an_lbt_abroadDawnFoster: I think this does. We want to be clear to packagers that this is our official policy and it's a bug not to comply21:45
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an_lbt_abroadwe bounced this around this afternoon and agreed that this would be the best approach21:45
DawnFosterbut the packaging team can determine their policies?21:45
DawnFosterdefine "we"21:46
an_lbt_abroadthe nokia team doing the internal build policy work21:46
an_lbt_abroadand understanding how product owners could manage/track bugs back into MeeGo21:47
an_lbt_abroadwe (same team) are likely to spawn work spitting out bugs to MeeGo packagers21:47
an_lbt_abroadsaying "your changelogs are wrong"21:47
an_lbt_abroadand they'll say "so"21:47
DawnFosterlike I said, it's up to Imad and Valtteri to determine the agenda, but I think it might have already been finalized21:48
an_lbt_abroad*nod*21:48
luisthey... i rebuilt a moblin application to run in suse 11.1, but im getting error: ClutterGLX-CRITICAL **: Unable to find suitable GL visual.   and it wont load the graphic interface because of that... in an specific computer i installed a video driver and it worked... but i cant make it work on intel video cards... (it works in suse 11.2 in all computers) what am i missing?21:48
an_lbt_abroadit is supposed to be open until 24 hrs before21:48
an_lbt_abroadDawnFoster: this is why you have a policy...21:48
an_lbt_abroadit used to be 48....21:48
an_lbt_abroadthen it got revised....21:49
DawnFosterno, it's supposed to be finalized 24 hrs before. Dropping something onto the proposed list 15 minutes before the deadline is unlikely to make it21:49
DawnFosterat some point, Imad and Valtteri need to time to talk about what they want on the agenda with enough lead time to get it finalized21:49
an_lbt_abroadOK21:50
DawnFosterthere is no specific deadline for proposals. Maybe there should be.21:50
Stskeepspersonally i wouldn't mind a week in discussion for any given proposal and then based on that it is tabled for tsg with a summary21:50
DawnFosterkeep in mind that Imad and Valtteri are both very busy. Getting a finalized agenda is difficult21:51
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DawnFosterstskeeps: that's about what I was thinking, too21:51
an_lbt_abroadStskeeps: but now they meet only every 2 weeks21:51
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Stskeepswell, a cyclus of tsg meeting - agenda prep meeting - tsg meeting could be interesting too21:52
Stskeepsor something21:52
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Stskeepseither way, this is just another example of the fact we don't have project structure with names out, leading proposals to be at too high levels (ie, TSG)21:53
Stskeepsso i hope there's news in that area :)21:53
bzhbIs there an other irc channel where I can find help for MeeGo Touch (aka DirectUI, aka Harmattan UI Framework) ?21:53
an_lbt_abroadwell, I proposed a repository working group a while back.... but I'm sure someone said "that's a core function" about the packaging policy partd21:54
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* Stskeeps wonders where packaging policy sorts under, at http://meego.com/sites/all/files/MeeGoDevStructureTSG_May5.pdf21:54
Stskeepsi guess RE enforcing, QA suggesting?21:55
Stskeepsor something21:55
an_lbt_abroadQA probably... depends on their scope21:57
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an_lbt_abroador DD21:57
lcukbzhb, you might find more luck atm trying in #qt-maemo21:58
an_lbt_abroadif they are self-documenting21:58
an_lbt_abroadie if the DD pkg maintainers manage their own policy21:58
* an_lbt_abroad realises this is the first time he's been on irc as part of his job :)21:59
bzhblcuk: thanks21:59
StskeepsDawnFoster: btw, frozen and published 24 hours before is normally the goal?21:59
DawnFosterstskeeps: that's what we've said. Getting it finalized is always more difficult that it sounds :)22:00
Stskeepshehe22:00
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DawnFosterImad is probably getting tired of me bugging him :)22:00
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Stskeepsand thank you for doing that for all of us :)22:08
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CosmoHillan_lbt_abroad: lol22:10
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lcukwhich of the meego UX thingies need to be rotatable?22:19
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lcukis it only the phones22:19
lcukor are there other larger devices needing it22:20
Stskeepsi could mention a netbook scenario where rotation would be useful22:20
lcukyeah my x41 is a convertable 12" slate22:20
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lcukpractically netbook before they were fashionable ;)22:20
arjanfor intel graphics... XRANDR works22:20
arjanone of the R's is for "Rotate" :022:21
lcukeven better running it at 600mhz :D22:21
lcukarjan, that wasnt why i was asking22:21
lcuki know technically it would work22:21
arjanoh you mean apps dealing with resizing ?22:21
lcuki was wondering what use cases and stuff were being considered22:21
lcuknahhh thats technical22:22
lcukbut will be pushed by the use cases22:22
arjanI suspect that the rule of thumb (no pun) is: Anything touch based also rotates22:22
lcukits like maemo and the portrait thing, getting too far in with a project that wont wotate that needs to22:22
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lcukarjan, but it doesnt open the discussion with a blanket :P22:23
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lcukwhich UXes are going to be touchable?22:23
arjanat least handset and slate22:23
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lcukin car?  boat? wall? slate?  kitchen?   bedroom?   alarm clock?22:23
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lcukdifferent manufacturers of cars will have different screen availability if new cars are like older ones22:24
Stskeepsi guess slate is all the stuff that isn't a handset but uses touch exclusively and optionally a keyboad?22:24
Stskeeps:P22:24
lcuksome will have columns with touch22:24
lcukothers will have rows22:24
Stskeepslike, those n8x0 thingies everyone forgot about ;)22:24
lcukthe things i have 4 of on my desk you mean22:25
lcukthat i make notes on everyday22:25
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* Stskeeps ponders idly about all the intel commercials he seems to be getting on comedy central22:28
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lcukhow many practical front ends for a media player would be needed/available?  the one you use on your lap may be laid out completely different to the one you have on your photoframe22:29
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Stskeepsideally there'd be multiple views and one model? ;)22:30
lcukindeed22:30
lcukbut thats down under the netbook ux at the moment22:30
lcukif im reading stuff right22:30
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lcukbut holding arm up to reach photoframe requires different agility to having it rest ing on knee22:31
Stskeepspersonally i hope for a huge bunch of meego devices in all shapes and sizes. ideally, hackable too22:31
lcukis it possible for an open project to not allow hacking?22:32
Stskeepssure, just watch security framework :P22:32
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Stskeepsi wonder if TPM's are standard issue in atom developer boards though22:33
lcukStskeeps, so wheres the repo for the security framework stuff?22:36
lcukand is it being woven through qt yet?22:36
Stskeepsdoes it need to be?22:36
lcukwould assume so?22:37
Stskeepsif done right, no good reason for that22:37
lcukif i need to create an instance of call history or something?22:37
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w00t_if it's at the framework level then it's broken by design22:37
lcuk"security framework"22:37
w00t_not what I meant and I suspect you know that :p22:37
* lcuk was grinning as i pasted it22:37
w00t_evil, evil lcuk22:38
lcukok so its at the app level?22:38
lcuki thought its logical place was inside the qobject constructor22:38
arjanStskeeps: most netbooks don't have tpm... just too much $$22:38
lcukthat way everything can be traced22:38
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lcukor rejected as per whatever22:39
arjanthose things are cost cut all the way22:39
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lcuktpm is on practically everything isnt it?22:39
arjannope22:39
lcukjust not activated after the outlash last time22:39
arjanit's a separate chip22:39
arjanand that means it's an OEM choice to add or not22:39
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lcukwill it be required for meego22:41
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arjanno22:41
arjanbut you need "somethign" if you want to do a locked down syste22:42
arjanm22:42
arjanbut many folks don't care22:42
arjanand don't want to spend the $$ on hardware BOM for it22:42
Stskeepsarjan: regarding menlow, the problem with that is graphics right? and not instruction set etc i guess22:42
lcukespecially if it prevents them from doing stuff in future22:42
arjancorrect22:42
Stskeepsah, so it's the powervr fun22:43
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lcukStskeeps, do you know where the security framework is being developed?22:45
lcukand is it open22:45
X-FadeCheck gitorious22:45
Stskeepslcuk: physical location or web? ;p22:45
Stskeepshttp://meego.gitorious.org/meego-platform-security22:45
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lcukStskeeps, so the framework is a hasher, credential checker tool(library?), and apt-get replacement ?22:50
lcukive added the link to repo on the wiki22:50
lcukhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_security22:50
Stskeepsi don't know anything about their openness22:51
lcuksecurity should be the most open of all because it is what everyone must place trust in?22:52
ml-somethingnot if it's security to be used against you :)22:52
X-FadeThe framework etc should be as open as possible now.22:52
X-FadeIt is the policies you must fear ;)22:53
X-FadeThe framework itself looks sane.22:53
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lcukthen if its sane, it can be used by others.22:54
X-FadeSure, it is supposed to be that way.22:54
X-FadeFrom the early documentation I have read.22:54
lcukyeah ive sat in on 2 presentations now22:55
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lcukanyway, vanishing \o bbl enjoyed convo folks as usual22:57
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an_lbt_abroadmeego-dev is a moderated list?23:40
thiago_homeno23:41
an_lbt_abroadoh23:41
an_lbt_abroadyes it is :)23:41
an_lbt_abroadYour mail to 'MeeGo-dev' with the subject...23:41
an_lbt_abroadIs being held until the list moderator can review it for approval....23:41
an_lbt_abroadI posted from my @nokia account23:42
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an_lbt_abroadI only subscribe with my @dgreaves account...23:42
poutsimoderated is not really the same as only-members-may-post23:43
an_lbt_abroaddepends if the moderator address is ~ dev/null ....23:44
poutsiheh, yes :) thankfully i've no such duties... i don't envy the ones who do23:45
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slavikthe omap4 dev kit ... can that be used as an actual cellphone? or does it lack the cell connectivity parts?23:50
thiago_homedoes it have a GSM radio?23:51
thiago_homeoh, right, that's what you were asking23:51
thiago_homeI doubt that the GSM radio is in...23:51
slavikthiago_home: I would think so, but I don't have one :(23:51
slavikthiago_home: but that can be bolted on though, right?23:51
thiago_homeyeah23:52
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thiago_homeI mean, the N900 is an OMAP323:52
thiago_homeso it must be possible23:53
slavikat some point in my life, I want to learn ARM assembly (or how to write proper C for arm)23:53
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