IRC log of #meego for Monday, 2010-05-17

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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:57
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* CosmoHill drools over an Alfa Romeo GT01:45
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* timeless_mbp sighs02:19
timeless_mbpis there any easy way to calculate the list of .m4 files which would be installed by a package given only an srpm?02:19
timeless_mbpnote that i don't want to actually compile the package02:20
timeless_mbpand i'd rather avoid downloading all .rpm's and unpacking them just to see which .m4's they ship02:20
CosmoHillcyas02:21
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Termanagood morning02:26
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* timeless_mbp cries02:38
LinuxCodetimeless_mbp, here, have a hammer and beat up some machines running Plesk02:38
LinuxCodeyou will feel better02:38
* timeless_mbp wants to beat up repo.meego.com02:40
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timeless_mbpok02:50
timeless_mbpwhere the heck is gconf in repo.meego.com?02:50
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Termanatimeless_mbp, is this what your looking for: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/ia32/os/i586/GConf-dbus-2.29.0-9.1.i586.rpm ?02:53
timeless_mbpno02:54
timeless_mbpwell02:54
timeless_mbpthe problem is that it doesn't have the m4 file i'm looking for02:55
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timeless_mbpoh cute03:00
timeless_mbpit has a .m4.in03:00
timeless_mbphow nice03:00
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* timeless_mbp wonders why the heck it's a .in03:00
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* timeless_mbp grumbles03:11
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timeless_mbpso, of all the packages in repo.meego.com03:13
timeless_mbponly one of them is really annoying03:13
timeless_mbpsgml-common03:14
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timeless_mbpso… how does one determine rpm ancestry?03:15
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timeless_mbpeww03:17
timeless_mbpsgml-common requires a strange version of automake too03:17
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* timeless_mbp grumbles03:34
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timeless_mbphow the heck is someone supposed to find the meego rootstraps from www.meego.com or wiki.meego.com?03:34
TSCHAKeeei have not been able to build a more complete meego with ux, yet.03:35
tmztsource is out? that's just netbook or handset already?03:36
tmzthah, keeps told me I remeber03:36
timeless_mbpStskeeps gave me a private image build03:36
timeless_mbpand someone pointed me to a public one03:36
timeless_mbpbut there should be an *easy* way to get one from the main sites03:36
* TSCHAKeee would love one of the private builds03:38
timeless_mbpthe build he gave me is linked from a channel log, the log is public03:38
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Sivahi..09:00
SivaThis is siva...09:00
Termanahello Siva09:00
Sivai have a few doubts about the meego wrt and webkit..09:00
TermanaThis is Termana.... if you hadn't noticed.09:00
Sivahi termana...09:01
Sivahow are you...09:01
Erkan_Yilmaz_what did you do so far to clear the doubts Siva?09:01
Sivai searched on the internet...:)09:01
Sivai didnt get any proper answer.....in any of the forums..09:02
Erkan_Yilmaz_oh :-(09:02
Sivaso i thought this is the best place for asking...09:02
Sivaany body have idea....of whether  meego wrt supports....jil bondi standards...?09:03
Sivahello any body there....termana...? erkan...?09:05
jyskyor nobody doesn't know09:06
* Erkan_Yilmaz_ prepares for work09:06
TermanaSiva, sorry, I haven't looked into Nokia's Web Runtime at all, so I don't have an answer.09:06
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Sivaok let me search then...if i know the answer i will tell you guys..09:09
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: so, i've gotten sources for 963 or so things from meego :)09:55
Stskeepscool09:55
timeless_mbpi'm building the xref now09:56
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* timeless_mbp is still trying to figure out what's up w/ "%{fontname}-ukai-fonts-0.2.20080216.1/"09:59
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timeless_mbpcute10:01
timeless_mbpcjkuni-fonts.spec is just stupid :)10:02
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Stskeepsi kinda like the outcome of my big reveal thread, because it helps people understand why things are the way they are and all the responses i hear sounds like we're all on the same page10:16
timeless_mbpurl?10:16
Myrttiyeah, url or it didn't happen10:17
Stskeepshttp://mwkn.net/2010/20/front.html and it refers the threa10:17
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Stskeepsd10:17
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timeless_mbphttp://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/mxr-test/source/.hg/patches/test-percent-readme?force=110:21
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ValiHi Stskeeps10:29
Stskeepshello there10:29
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Stskeepsmorn slaine10:33
slainemorning10:34
ValiHi slaine10:34
ValiI have gone through OBS. it is a very good building service .. i didn't see building system  like this before so i just confused at starting ..but now it,s  fine i was able to build the some test packages using this OBS .10:34
Stskeepscool :)10:35
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Vali:)10:35
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Valiactually i was build the test package for Maemo . and i tried to build the same test package for MeeGo but ididn't seen any project repository for MeeGo to add as a build repositories ( i searched in the projects in the openSUSE projects i have seen different Maemo prjects but MeeGo is not there)10:44
Valiam i missing something..?10:44
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Valiin proj meta data we have to add the repository information right to get dependencies..but for MeeGo which project repository i have to add to get the dependencies. .10:46
Vali?10:46
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Stskeepswell, that's the part that's not really out there yet :P10:47
Valiok..when it will be.?10:48
Valii think MeeGo1.0 is going to release in this month right..?10:49
Stskeepsnot sure10:49
Stskeepsyes, i sure hope so :P10:49
timeless_mbpbut do you know what 1.0 is? :)10:49
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Validon,t know actually i have seen in some blogs relate to this info...10:50
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Valifirst release i think..10:50
timeless_mbpof what? :)10:51
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ValiMeeGo10:51
timeless_mbpwhat's that?10:51
ValiMeeGo OS10:51
timeless_mbpsorry, your answers aren't really sufficient. "what's that, really?"10:52
Valinetbook OS10:52
timeless_mbpah, that's slightly more specific10:52
timeless_mbpis it supposed to run on all netbooks? I have an eeePC (501 iirc), will it work there? :)10:52
timeless_mbpwill it be supported in 2020?10:52
Valiit is well optimized efficient Embedded OS for NetBooks and10:52
timeless_mbpthe point of my questions is to make you understand what the actual scope of the release is10:52
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timeless_mbpi have a reasonable understanding of what meego is or might be10:53
timeless_mbpbut i'm not going to claim to know what 1.0 is10:53
timeless_mbpi certainly don't know how long it will be supported, where, or by whom10:53
timeless_mbpall of which are fairly important10:53
timeless_mbpi don't know if it is supposed to include a build toolchain, or an sdk, or an sdk real people would want to use10:54
timeless_mbpi don't know if people are supposed to use 1.0 to build packages, or if they're supposed to use a release branch and just set proper dependencies such that users get update packages as needed10:54
* thiago_home doesn't get why we'd make an sdk for fictional people10:54
timeless_mbpCTCP thiago_home TIME10:54
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timeless_mbphrm, 9am10:55
thiago_homehere's a slash: /10:55
timeless_mbpthiago_home: thanks, it was intentional10:55
Valiok10:57
timeless_mbpfwiw, http://mxr.moego.org/maemo6/source/qt/tools/qml/qmlruntime.cpp10:57
timeless_mbphrm10:57
timeless_mbp(random file, just showing off that it's indexed)10:59
thiago_homecool11:01
timeless_mbpi've gotten repo.meego.com pulled mostly, and filed a few bugs about crappy spec files11:02
timeless_mbpi'm building an index of that now11:02
timeless_mbpi can offer a sneak peak of that, it's currently 'repo2.meego.com' on the xref (repo.meego.com is still an alias for repo.moblin.org, until the xref finishes)11:02
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slainetimeless_mbp: that mxr url you posted is painfully slow, are there still problems ?12:17
kulveI'm trying to use the ready made and self made usb images but I get ext3 errors really easily (especially if I install more stuff in there) and the rootfs gets mounted as read-only. Any hints what's going on..?12:17
timeless_mbpslaine: each #include <NoSuchFile>12:17
timeless_mbpis painful for mxr12:18
timeless_mbpthere's actually a patch to make mxr generally much faster, i was supposed to push that this weekend12:18
slaineright, once it got past all the includes it picked up speed12:18
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timeless_mbpyeah, i added some caching for the includes a while ago12:18
timeless_mbpbut i'm not sure how well it deals w/ NoSuchFile12:18
timeless_mbpand i can't remember how the caching works12:18
timeless_mbpslaine: oo12:20
timeless_mbpit looks like i'm using glimpse instead of my caching12:20
timeless_mbplemme see if caching is better12:20
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timeless_mbpslaine: try shift-reloading and tell me if it's better or worse12:22
timeless_mbpi think it's worse now12:22
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timeless_mbpbut i'm using Safari instead of Gecko, so i'm not certain12:22
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slainetimeless_mbp: it's worse12:26
timeless_mbpok12:26
timeless_mbpreverted12:26
timeless_mbpso, each #include <> triggers a glimpse search12:26
slaineconfirmed12:27
* timeless_mbp ponders12:29
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timeless_mbpnote that the top level directory is expensive because it tries to get directory descriptions for each directory — well, for the repo.* top levels, it's slow, for /maemo6 it isn't12:31
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* timeless_mbp sighs12:54
timeless_mbpslaine: ok, i've pulled in a wire optimization12:55
timeless_mbpbut it of course doesn't help w/ the #include problem12:55
timeless_mbpthe code would really benefit from parallelizing the include lookups :(12:55
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Termanahello dneary12:56
dnearyhi12:56
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timeless_mbp17612 timeless  25   0  131m 125m  572 R  5.0  7.4   8:38.30 glimpseindex13:37
timeless_mbp17621 timeless  25   0  159m 156m 2016 R  4.5  9.2  15:33.10 genxref13:37
* timeless_mbp sighs13:37
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timeless_mbpfile 22745 of 304234 ...13:38
timeless_mbpoh brother13:38
timeless_mbp---------- 1 timeless timeless 0 May 17 01:52 /data/meego.com/BUILD//multipath-tools/cciss_id/Makefile.cciss_id13:38
timeless_mbpwhich brilliant guy decided it was ok to have files w/ no read bits?13:38
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sp3000but its size is zero, how would the bits fit?!1114:13
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slaineDoes anyone know of a qt theme that looks like the moblin gtk2 theme ?17:49
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thiago_homethe QGtkStyle17:52
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w00t_slaine: did you see thiago_home's answer before sending to the ML?18:01
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slaineno, I sent the email first, then thought to ask here18:01
w00t_aha18:01
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* TSCHAKeee puts on the Spiral Scratch EP and cranks it18:09
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rangea/act18:19
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Nadleyhi everybody19:12
Nadleywhat's new here19:12
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pupnik_see topic19:13
Nadleyok19:14
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twoboxenIs there any sort of schedule for when prebuilt images are updated?  For example, the n900 images are a month and a half old19:19
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X-Fadetwoboxen: There will be an 1.0 release this month.19:20
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twoboxenis there a planned featureset for 1.0 on the wiki?19:20
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Stskeepsevening21:11
CosmoHillhi21:12
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Stskeepsquiet day on #meego today21:50
thiago_homeyeah21:50
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heffercan't be the weather though21:55
jyskyreally?21:56
jyskyit's been over 20,5°c for days now21:56
Stskeepshorrid weather here21:56
jyskyit's been over 25°c for days now21:56
hefferrain, rain and some rain21:56
jysky:D21:56
thiago_homeit's a day off21:57
jyskyi miss winter21:57
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Stskeepswarm weather in finland isn't very good for meego progress, hackers should stay inside cos it's bad weather ;)21:57
jysky.D21:58
hefferisn't there some perky bot in this channel that announces the current weather? so we could all join in and present each other our local weather? :P21:58
jyskywhaat. nice weather forecast. over 20mm rain in an hour21:58
lcukStskeeps, meego handheld project should target developers who are sat on a beach :p21:59
Stskeepswhat, meego hobos?21:59
lcukcool ass WRT XML javascript devs are too hip to be basement dwellers ;)22:00
thiago_homemeego slate UX22:00
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lcukmore likely seen at apple events22:00
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jysky:)22:00
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* Stskeeps wonders if uiemo works on n81022:01
thiago_homeno reason why not22:01
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TSCHAKeeeStskeeps, what's the last version of mer that was built on diablo?22:03
lcukthiago_home, in the case of thumbnailing large image files, does qt manage its own with a low priority filesystem scanner, or does it use he thumbnailer store thats on the target machine?22:03
StskeepsTSCHAKeee: never, besides 0.2 and it was already kinda fremantle-ish there22:03
thiago_homelcuk: no answer, there's no thumbnailer.22:04
TSCHAKeeemeh22:04
TSCHAKeeeokay22:04
Stskeeps0.16 is what you're probably asking about22:04
TSCHAKeeei'd like a maemo like system22:04
TSCHAKeeeon my geode tablet22:04
TSCHAKeee(yes, laugh)22:04
TSCHAKeee(go ahead)22:04
lcukahhh thiago_home so if i wanted to make a list of all images and show them in qt ive got to read / parse the full size images?22:04
lcukall 4gb of them22:05
lcukor however many are on other peoples devices22:05
thiago_homelcuk: or load them in a smaller resolution22:05
thiago_homeyou don't need to load the entire image at full res22:05
lcuksure, but loading in a 5mp image as a thumbnail still takes much longer than just reading the cache thumb22:06
lcukor larger22:06
* javispedro tries rain machine over finland22:06
lcukwhat resolution camera does the new N8 phone have?22:06
lcuk12mp?22:06
javispedrohttp://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n8/features22:06
javispedro-- yes.22:06
lcukthat runs qt doesnt it?22:07
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RST38hRuns Symbian22:07
thiago_home12 MP yes22:07
lcukqt sits ontop tho?22:07
RST38hQt is a toolkit22:07
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RST38hHow much Qt it runs I am not sure but probably not much - most of the UI still looks Avkon22:07
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thiago_homethe same features page lists "Qt 4.6.2", see http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n8/specifications22:08
lcukok, sidetracking slightly22:08
thiago_homeRST38h: all of Qt is on it22:08
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lcukbut pointing out loading a large list of images22:08
thiago_homeexcept Qt3support22:08
lcukis a required thing and wondering how best to do it22:08
Stskeepsthiago_home: what's your opinion on what to use for touch devices? raw qt with 'mobile' styles?22:08
RST38hthiago: Do builtin apps use it>22:08
thiago_homeStskeeps: QML22:08
thiago_homeRST38h: no, that's a Symbian^3 device22:09
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thiago_homeSymbian^4 apps are built with Qt22:09
RST38hthiago: Then it runs Avkon.22:09
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lcukthiago_home, how do i tell qt to load me a thumbnail instead of a full resolution image?22:11
thiago_homelcuk: load the image at a lower resolution22:11
thiago_homethe API, I don't know22:11
thiago_homeask me about non-graphical stuff22:11
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lcukheh that was non graphical ;)22:12
thiago_homeimages are graphical to me22:12
lcukill go look22:12
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lcukthanks22:12
RST38hthiago: non-graphical stuff is handled by libc and pthreads :)22:13
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RST38hit is graphical stuff that matters in qt22:13
thiago_homenot really22:13
thiago_homenon-graphical stuff is hanlded by QtCore, QtNetwork22:13
thiago_homeQtDBus22:13
thiago_homeall of which I can help you with22:13
RST38hQtDBus I can understand, there lis libsocket and libnsl for the network22:14
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thiago_homeno, not really22:14
RST38hthiago: But, getting back to the graphical stuff, why can't I make my main window fautomatically fill the screen (and change dimensions when it rotates)?22:15
lcukRST38h, i like the positive idea of a qt application being completely encapsulated by the api - if you have to step outside it to do any work you lose the encapsulation and potential to cross platform easily22:15
thiago_homeyou're also missing event loops, tool classes, etc.22:15
RST38hthiago: Using much advertised Nokia Qt SDK for N900 target22:15
thiago_homeRST38h: I said "ask me non-graphical stuff"22:15
w00t_lcuk: QImage/QPixmap both have scaling methods, or you can do it on the fly (depending on codec) using QImageReader22:15
thiago_homeI can't help you with the graphical stuff. It's not my area.22:15
RST38hlcuk: It also means you have to carry qt wherever you go22:15
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thiago_homeyeah, that's the intention22:16
lcuksure w00t_ but in the time any of the processes have loaded the fullsize image i could have loaded a screenfull of thumbs22:16
RST38hlcuk: Which is a non-starter for me, as I often go to weird places and hate carrying huge lumps of foreign code with me22:16
thiago_homeQt Everywhere.22:16
RST38hlcuk: I mean, Qt everywhere is definitely thiago's intention, but I have other intentions.22:16
lcuksure RST38h22:16
w00t_lcuk: erm, if you don't have a thumbnail of it already, you need to create one, you can't really avoid that :p22:16
w00t_obviously if you're saving thumbs in some form, you can reuse that and not bother with the full version22:17
RST38hlcuk: Which usually end me up with as few dependencies as possible, and as common dependencies as they come (i.e. libc etc)22:17
lcukw00t_, i was asking about the qt normal way to do it22:17
lcukon maemo fremantle we have tracker22:17
timeless_mbpRST38h: why would someone who works on Qt professionally want Qt everywhere?!22:17
lcukbut on maemo diablo for instance it doesnt afaik22:17
lcukand theres potentially not one around22:17
w00t_lcuk: ah, so you're more asking about a place to cache them?22:17
timeless_mbpthat's almost like someone working on a browser wanting browsers everywhere!22:17
lcukw00t_, im asking whether theres  qt api to that functionality which will return thumbnail correct for the system its sat ontop of22:18
thiago_homelcuk: there's no facility in Qt for tapping onto the system's thumbnail cache22:18
lcukwhether its using tracker or windows thumbnailer or doing it itself22:18
thiago_homehowever, you can make the thumbnail yourself.22:18
w00t_lcuk: ok, then no, that doesn't exist22:18
w00t_it would perhaps be a nice addition, though22:18
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lcuk(asked mainly because of the talk of n81022:19
lcukand i know that doesnt have thumbs ;)22:19
lcukand loading them on the fly is hard work for each app to do22:20
w00t_it wouldn't be hard to provide a generic backend for it22:20
jyskyhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/17/zte-packs-3g-maemo-into-its-v7-mid/ what's this22:20
w00t_it's actually not that difficult to do codewise, it's not as efficient to ask them all to do it though22:20
lcukof course - it would do whats right based on the OS its compiled against22:20
RST38hjysky: looks like diablo22:21
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jyskystrange, that's ancient22:22
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lcukjysky, thats nice looking hw22:22
jyskyyeah22:22
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javispedroha, Nokia is doomed!22:22
lcuk:) very n810 locked keybpoard outish22:22
jysky:)22:22
RST38hjavis: add more o's in there22:22
RST38hdooOO00OOoomed!22:22
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* javispedro wonders who at zte is so crazy to actually like maemo22:23
jysky:)22:25
lcukbecause maemo is cool and worth liking22:25
jyskyi was about to say "i thought there were many nerds who like it"22:25
jyskyspecially those debianish people22:25
javispedroand they even made a fremantleish theme for the diablo hildon-desktop!22:26
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lcukthey arent the first afaik22:27
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javispedroyeah I kinda remember that "other" one22:28
jyskythat other one? :D22:28
RST38hjysky: everyone knows maemo sucks, it is slow, lacks apps, and has bugs22:29
javispedroeven more crazy, so there are at least TWO device manufacturers that even like maemo!22:29
jyskyRST38h, talk.maemo.org and you find those faith boys there22:29
RST38hjavispedro: As both are from .cn, the correct wording is not "like" but "see an opportunity in" =)22:29
lcukRST38h, which handheld device runs your emulators best?22:30
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TSCHAKeeehow the hell are they getting the source for diablo?22:31
Stskeepsit's open source, some of it22:31
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jyskywell... it's linux, with nokia's gui, so it shouldn't be too hard to imitate22:32
lcukdid the pandora ever come out?22:32
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jyskyshe is still in the box? :)22:33
lcuki dunno22:33
CosmoHillshe's still in the closest?22:33
RST38hlcuk: An x86 tablet running MSDOS =)22:33
CosmoHill*cupboard22:33
* RST38h laughs satanically22:33
lcukRST38h, not quite the same ballpark22:33
lcukwhich of the recent handheld phone thingies22:34
RST38hI guess, N900 then22:34
jyskydon't know that any other system has as many emulator softwares22:34
* RST38h has not done any porting to WinMo (do not have a device), shunned iPhone (don't like anal sex), and the S60e5 version is unfinished22:35
RST38hSo, I guess the Maemo versions are most up to date22:35
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hefferStskeeps, now you got the noise you wanted?22:40
Stskeepsyes ;)22:40
hefferstill waiting for the first one to announce that the meego site is actually down22:40
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TSCHAKeeeStskeeps, what's the closest debian version that mer 0.16 tracks?22:52
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TSCHAKeee(no more questions after this, promise) ;)22:52
hefferokay nokia guys. we all had our fun. now please turn on the mysql server again22:52
StskeepsTSCHAKeee: it's ubuntu 9.0422:53
TSCHAKeeeStskeeps, gotcha. thanks22:53
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bitkillermeego wiki down?22:56
hefferbitkiller, you won the prize22:56
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bitkillerthanks22:56
bitkiller:)22:56
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hefferi think it was the cleaning lady. she accidentially hit the switch on the mysql server22:58
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alecrimmeego site offline23:06
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DawnFosterwe're working on the website issues right now23:21
Stskeepsnext up is someone claiming meego.com is down because something big is getting announced23:21
Stskeeps:P23:21
CosmoHillhey DawnFoster23:22
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DawnFosterI can definitely say that it has nothing to do with any kind of release :)23:23
DawnFosterunless they forgot to tell me about some super secret release :)23:23
thiago_homeit's so secret that no one knows about it23:24
thiago_homecan't leak23:24
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hefferDawnFoster, admit it. you spilled your coffee over the MySQL server.23:26
DawnFosterI only drink tea, so I couldn't have spilled my coffee on it :)23:26
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* thiago_home wonders if the mythbusters have ever tested what does more damage to your laptop23:27
thiago_homecoffee, tea, beer, water or soft drink23:27
hefferDawnFoster, nice. i prefer tea as well :)23:28
hefferdoes that get me a job at intel? :P23:28
DawnFosternice try :)23:30
CosmoHillthiago_home: that''s an interesting cocktail you have there23:30
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hefferyay. thanks for fixing the webpage23:53
DawnFosterthings seem to be back up and running now.23:55
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