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| pinchartl | is there a meego kernel developer here ? why does http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source store patches in a quilt series instead of using a normal kernel tree ? | 00:03 |
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| drizztbsd | pinchartl: ? | 00:06 |
| pinchartl | drizztbsd: http://wiki.meego.com/Kernel_Process points to the meego kernel repository on gitorious where "all the development happens". that's basically a quilt series with a bunch of scripts. I can't believe development really happens there | 00:08 |
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| drizztbsd | I noticed it too, maybe quilt tree is faster to manager | 00:09 |
| drizztbsd | or easyer | 00:09 |
| janneg | pinchartl: the goal for meego is it to use a vanilla upstream kernel | 00:09 |
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| drizztbsd | janneg: and the n900 binary blobs? | 00:10 |
| pinchartl | janneg: that's a goal we probably all agree with, but the truth is kernel development is still required. patches should be pushed to mainline, but they need to be developed somewhere | 00:11 |
| pinchartl | drizztbsd: are there n900 binary blobs in the kernel ? | 00:11 |
| pinchartl | drizztbsd: if so, do you know which ones ? | 00:11 |
| drizztbsd | the battery controller | 00:11 |
| tripzero | gps? | 00:11 |
| pinchartl | drizztbsd: do you know the module name ? | 00:11 |
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| drizztbsd | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_images_for_N900 | 00:13 |
| drizztbsd | BME, WLAN, BT | 00:13 |
| drizztbsd | the /lib/firware directory | 00:14 |
| drizztbsd | firmware* | 00:14 |
| pinchartl | ah, firmware is another issue, yes | 00:14 |
| pinchartl | but WLAN is open-source as far as I can tell | 00:15 |
| pinchartl | checking bluetooth and BME | 00:15 |
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| pinchartl | the BT driver seems to be open-source too | 00:16 |
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| pinchartl | so, if I understand things correctly, product vendors (Intel, Nokia and others) need to push their kernel patches to mainline before they get accepted into Meego ? | 00:20 |
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| pupnik | i will donate money to fixed alsa | 00:20 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:36 |
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| tripzero | pinchartl, yes, it has been intel's policy to push upstream first instead of forking upstream and dabbling in your own mess like other platforms do. | 00:36 |
| thiago_home | pupnik: that will be a lot of money... | 00:40 |
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| pinchartl | tripzero: does that work in practice ? there's the upstreaming delays on one side, and the time to market on the other side. I can't believe vendors won't release products with non-upstream code :-) | 00:44 |
| tripzero | pinchartl, i think it works very well. development cycles in meego are generally longer than the kernel dev cycle so any upstream patches intel pushes are usually stable by the time we need to release. | 00:45 |
| tripzero | getting them in the kernel mainline also helps get additional eyes and testers on the code that wouldn't have access to it normally | 00:46 |
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| pinchartl | tripzero: so your kernel has absolutely no hack ? | 00:47 |
| pinchartl | tripzero: not a single patch that hasn't been pushed upstream ? :-) | 00:47 |
| tripzero | finally, pushing enhancements to upstream benefits IA across most segments, not just moblin/meego | 00:47 |
| pinchartl | I fully agree that enhancements need to be pushed upstream | 00:48 |
| pinchartl | but what about security frameworks for instance ? | 00:48 |
| tripzero | pinchartl, honestly, i have no clue if we have any non-upstream patches or if it's pure vanilla atm | 00:48 |
| pinchartl | like the one developped for maemo 6 | 00:48 |
| pinchartl | I doubt it will ever get mainstreamed | 00:48 |
| tripzero | iirc, that hasn't landed in the open world at all | 00:48 |
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| thiago_home | pinchartl: it's not contradictory | 00:49 |
| thiago_home | patches should go upstream first | 00:49 |
| thiago_home | that's the rule | 00:49 |
| tripzero | pinchartl, it could very well be mainstremed. just a non-default option is all | 00:49 |
| tripzero | idk | 00:49 |
| thiago_home | branching and patching is the exception | 00:49 |
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| pinchartl | thiago_home: you think the maemo6 security framework has a change to get upstream ? | 00:52 |
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| thiago_home | I have no idea what the framework is or does | 00:53 |
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| thiago_home | the only thing I ever heard that might be remotely related was the attempt to make the D-Bus daemon block and ask the user for permissions when passing messages | 00:54 |
| thiago_home | and I told them specifically for that case that the chances were "no way in hell" | 00:54 |
| thiago_home | and I'm a D-Bus maintainer | 00:54 |
| pupnik | :) | 00:56 |
| pinchartl | :-) | 00:57 |
| pinchartl | the kernel security framework adds hooks to various core subsystems. google did the same with android, and the patches got rejected | 00:58 |
| pinchartl | but maybe they didn't do it right | 00:58 |
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| pinchartl | anyway, time for bed | 01:04 |
| pinchartl | g'night | 01:04 |
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| * CosmoHill got home at 11:20pm :o | 01:36 | |
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| slaine | CosmoHill: I feel your pain | 01:45 |
| slaine | I'm still working | 01:45 |
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| CosmoHill | I have a class diagram now :D | 01:47 |
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| CosmoHill | I can't get IRC at uni | 01:52 |
| CosmoHill | not without a ssh tunnel | 01:52 |
| CosmoHill | it's cool cos it was just me and simon | 01:54 |
| CosmoHill | so we got a far bit done | 01:54 |
| e-yes | Hello all. I've a little question about N900-Meego image. After flashing it, is it possible to charge battery? Is it possible somehow to check/display current battery status? | 01:55 |
| CosmoHill | hmm | 01:56 |
| CosmoHill | i think there are two n900 images | 01:56 |
| CosmoHill | and they handle the battery in different ways | 01:56 |
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| e-yes | yes. is it possible for open source image? or, at least, for closed img? | 02:00 |
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| CosmoHill | the open source image you should be able to get the src.rpm files from the repo | 02:02 |
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| e-yes | is there any open source 'replacement' for BME? and how much is it functional? | 02:03 |
| CosmoHill | i have no idea | 02:05 |
| CosmoHill | but I'm sure someone else | 02:05 |
| CosmoHill | does | 02:05 |
| CosmoHill | night night e-yes and slingr | 02:05 |
| CosmoHill | slaine* | 02:05 |
| slaine | yeah, time I hit the hay too | 02:06 |
| CosmoHill | you at home or work? | 02:06 |
| slaine | worked from home today | 02:06 |
| slaine | i'm right beside my bed | 02:06 |
| slaine | it's calling me | 02:06 |
| slaine | 3 more files to edit and then I'm done | 02:06 |
| e-yes | I work at home always. So I don't know where am I:) | 02:08 |
| CosmoHill | I'm staying late at uni | 02:08 |
| CosmoHill | i get more work done with simon :) | 02:08 |
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| slaine | night then | 02:12 |
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| TSCHAK | damn | 02:27 |
| TSCHAK | no Netbook UX code | 02:28 |
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| Termana | good morning | 03:33 |
| tripzero | hi | 03:35 |
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| * TSCHAK bummed that none of the UX code is checked in | 04:17 | |
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| sandsmark | I can only get a-z working when typing in the qemu image | 04:20 |
| sandsmark | (no uppercase, numbers, or -'s) | 04:20 |
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| Termana | TSCHAK, I think it will be checked in with the 1.0 release. Don't quote me on that though, cause I might be wrong. | 04:21 |
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| antonf | I meet belowing Error while build meego iso from trunk repo: | 09:20 |
| antonf | Error: failed to create image : Failed to build transaction : system-config-date-1.9.36-20.1.noarch requires gnome-python2-canvas | 09:21 |
| antonf | I checked repo.meego.com, there is no gnome-python2-canvas package. | 09:22 |
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| Stskeeps | morning slaine | 11:27 |
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| slaine | morning Stskeeps | 11:32 |
| slaine | refreshed I hope | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, a bit better | 11:34 |
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| slaine | Oh, wednesday already | 11:39 |
| slaine | TSG meeting tonight | 11:39 |
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| Stskeeps | WAHa_06x36: jkirdner is also looking at beagle/meego i think - you two should coordinate | 11:52 |
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| slaine | Did you get any further with your watchdog problem WAHa_06x36 | 12:02 |
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| lbt | o/ | 12:11 |
| lbt | slaine: pin | 12:11 |
| lbt | g | 12:11 |
| slaine | ack | 12:11 |
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| lbt | we're making progress on the RWG front as per emails | 12:12 |
| lbt | I'm building a system that will be a community OBS | 12:12 |
| slaine | awesome | 12:12 |
| lbt | :) | 12:12 |
| slaine | is this all happening on the community list ? | 12:12 |
| lbt | it will be on -dev AFAI | 12:13 |
| lbt | K | 12:13 |
| slaine | grand, that's the only one I'm signed up to at the moment | 12:13 |
| lbt | although quim seems to have re-defined -dev.... which was a surprise | 12:13 |
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| *** Votan|off is now known as Votan | 12:14 | |
| slaine | indeed, he seems to have turned into a moderator of late | 12:14 |
| lbt | remind me ... were we discussing rpm 'training' ? | 12:14 |
| pupnik | looks like my registration problem only occurred with yahoo mail | 12:14 |
| lbt | ages ago? | 12:14 |
| Stskeeps | redefined -dev? | 12:14 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: as "platform dev only" | 12:14 |
| lbt | he redirected app-dev to -sdk/forum | 12:14 |
| slaine | as in not a developers list, but platform dev list | 12:15 |
| lbt | which kinda blew me away | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | well, that might make sense to some degree | 12:15 |
| Termana | But isn't that the original intent of -dev? | 12:15 |
| slaine | I thought it was a list for developers | 12:15 |
| slaine | not just platform | 12:15 |
| lbt | yeah, except -sdk was about developing an sdk I thought | 12:15 |
| lbt | and what defines 'platform' | 12:15 |
| slaine | I've the same understanding | 12:15 |
| lbt | plus it ain't excatly bulging at the seams :) | 12:16 |
| slaine | lbt, re the rpm training, I think it was th0br0 that was mentioning getting some Fedora heads together to offer some training online | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | if things pick up more, -dev would be a horrid place to subscribe to | 12:16 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: yes. but that's the time to start splitting it | 12:16 |
| slaine | Wait 'til this time next month | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: old habits die hard :/ | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | ie, split is better to do early than late | 12:17 |
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| lbt | it's a ml, not a forum... we have tools you know ;) | 12:17 |
| slaine | we should all have meego 1.0 in our hands (or on our laps, depending on hardware) and the list will explode | 12:17 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: I disagree - a split increases the chances of missing something | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | well, each his own opinion :) | 12:17 |
| lbt | right now we need to maximise awareness of activity | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | i don't like the lack of Reply-to: for instance | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:18 |
| * lbt reply-alls | 12:18 | |
| Stskeeps | and i also like splits because it aids metrics | 12:18 |
| * lbt likes lkml | 12:18 | |
| lbt | if it works for them... | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | which will come back to us again as a valuable tool | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:18 |
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| TheBootroo | when will the garage be opened ? | 12:19 |
| * lbt pings th0br0 for rpm training support :) | 12:19 | |
| lbt | TheBootroo: I'm working on it | 12:20 |
| slaine | TheBootroo: you keep asking the same questions | 12:20 |
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| TheBootroo | lbt: you re charged of garage admin ? | 12:20 |
| TheBootroo | slaine: :-) | 12:20 |
| lbt | I'm not "in charge" of anything... but X-Fade and I are working on getting something up and running | 12:21 |
| TheBootroo | ok | 12:21 |
| slaine | lbt, who supplied the hardware in the end ? | 12:21 |
| pupnik | how is that possible without access to server | 12:21 |
| slaine | pupnik: snap, haha | 12:22 |
| lbt | we will be looking for people to alpha/beta-test the processes. They'll need a damned good justification to be part of the alpha-test group though | 12:22 |
| slaine | I rock | 12:22 |
| slaine | does that count ? | 12:22 |
| lbt | slaine: we have a small server from maemo.org | 12:22 |
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| lbt | slaine: submit and see... you only get one submission :) | 12:22 |
| slaine | hehehe | 12:23 |
| TheBootroo | i'm a roxxxin hard Qt dev, can I test ? ;-) | 12:23 |
| lbt | sigh. that was 2 potential testers down at the first hurdle.... "What do you do to make lbt's life easier?" | 12:23 |
| TheBootroo | coffee ? | 12:24 |
| TheBootroo | :D | 12:24 |
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| slaine | lol, So it's favors your after then lbt. I didn't know it was gonna be that kinda party | 12:24 |
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| TheBootroo | XD | 12:25 |
| Termana | I can't remember exactly who was involved but there was a thread on the mailing list where someone said they had an n900 to help, and someone replied "I think Nokia has enough n900s" (or something like that). I lol' | 12:25 |
| Termana | lol'ed* | 12:25 |
| TheBootroo | why ? | 12:26 |
| lbt | heh... I will put out an email. And yes, I'm looking for people who can bring something significant to the party: process knowledge, experience with relevant systems/tools etc etc | 12:26 |
| Termana | TheBootroo, can't you see the funny in that? :P | 12:26 |
| pupnik | because the poster apparently thought having a N900 was sufficient to assist with meego | 12:26 |
| slaine | lbt, I would actually be interested in repackaging my moblin repo's rpms for x86 meego, so if there's space and that's something you'd like to test, give me a shout when you're ready. | 12:26 |
| TheBootroo | not really .... that's true and false | 12:26 |
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| slaine | Termana: it was probably TheBootroo that sent that email | 12:27 |
| slaine | ;) | 12:27 |
| TheBootroo | no | 12:27 |
| Termana | :P meany | 12:27 |
| TheBootroo | i'm not on the mailing list | 12:27 |
| pupnik | probably TheBootroo's dad | 12:27 |
| lbt | slaine: OK. I'll forget - but hopefully we'll get a thread going and there'll be a point to jump in. | 12:27 |
| TheBootroo | i have an N900 and i'm keeping it | 12:27 |
| slaine | I'll keep an eye out so | 12:27 |
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| TheBootroo | pupnik: my father doesn't have a N900, even if he really wanted to | 12:28 |
| slaine | I'm somewhat familiar with .spec files too, so I may be able to offer some help there | 12:28 |
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| TheBootroo | do you think that there are some Nokia devs who have already a Meego 1.0 preview release running with preliminary Ui on their N900 ? | 12:30 |
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| slaine | TheBootroo: of course, it's already be discussed by our benevolent dictators | 12:30 |
| slaine | s/be /been / | 12:30 |
| infobot | slaine meant: TheBootroo: of course, it's already been discussed by our benevolent dictators | 12:30 |
| TheBootroo | so ? | 12:31 |
| TheBootroo | it may happen a big leak like iPhone 4G one ? | 12:31 |
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| Stskeeps | TheBootroo: no, everyone is running xterm with emacs inside ;) | 12:32 |
| TheBootroo | they're not testing the UX ? | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | emacs is a UX ;) | 12:32 |
| TheBootroo | or have they all just an Iphone ? | 12:32 |
| TheBootroo | :D | 12:32 |
| slaine | TheBootroo: http://carrypad.com/2010/04/13/meego-at-idf-netbook-and-handheld-eye-candy-chrome-fennec-and-lots-of-developer-details/ | 12:32 |
| TheBootroo | Stskeeps: Emacs is not the handheld UX | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | i would like to wager that emacs would be an excellent handheld u | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | x | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:33 |
| TheBootroo | slaine: i know these 3 screenshots but are they the only one on the whole web ? | 12:34 |
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| slaine | yes | 12:35 |
| TheBootroo | :-( | 12:35 |
| slaine | and they weren't properly "released" by the meego team, so it might not even be accurate | 12:35 |
| TheBootroo | i hate 'artistic blur' | 12:36 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: I'd rather use vim | 12:36 |
| TheBootroo | slaine: shame on you ^^^ | 12:36 |
| TheBootroo | i would rather use QtCreator 2.0 | 12:37 |
| TheBootroo | ;-) | 12:37 |
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| timeless | hrm, didn't kwork | 13:51 |
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| Jaffa | forum.meego.com down? | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, reggies upgrading them both | 15:11 |
| thiago | both? | 15:11 |
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| thiago | both of one? | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | meego.com and maemo.org one | 15:11 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 15:17 | |
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| thiago | ah | 15:18 |
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| wazd | heya people | 16:48 |
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| Stskeeps | moo | 16:51 |
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| TSCHAKeee | if the released browser is going to be the loosely integrated chromium | 17:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | like i am running here | 17:12 |
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| TSCHAKeee | i am going to throw up | 17:12 |
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| * TSCHAKeee wonders why the hell they got rid of the browser as a tab | 17:12 | |
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| lbt | jedix: ask in here jedix | 17:13 |
| jedix | does anyone know where the armv7 repo is? | 17:14 |
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| lbt | you can lie to it and use the armv5el rpms in the :armv7el though | 17:14 |
| lbt | then, create a project and build armv7el using armv5el to bootstrap | 17:15 |
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| jedix | okay | 17:15 |
| lbt | Stskeeps may know about armv7el | 17:15 |
| jedix | so I need to grab an entire copy of armv5 | 17:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | so um, where's the next version of Mer? | 17:16 |
| * TSCHAKeee chuckles and dodges the nerf darts | 17:16 | |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 17:16 |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee: OT, take it to #mer | 17:16 |
| lbt | <slap> | 17:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | AIIIEEE! *DODGE-BAZOOKA-FROM-stskeeps* just kidding! just kiddiinggg!! | 17:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | :) | 17:17 |
| * w00t_ hands lbt a bigger stick | 17:17 | |
| jedix | is there an rsync host or do I have to use wget? | 17:17 |
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| lbt | rsync? what centrury do you think this is? | 17:17 |
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| lbt | we're talking Intel here.... | 17:17 |
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| * lbt hands jedix some 10baseT | 17:18 | |
| jedix | well, what's the best way to grab the entire package set? | 17:18 |
| Fatal | what's wrong with rsync now? | 17:18 |
| lbt | wget --mirror --no-parent --some other crap | 17:18 |
| * w00t_ senses that someone's sarcasm detector is failing | 17:19 | |
| Fatal | oh.. god... | 17:19 |
| lbt | jedix: that link I gave you.... look in there | 17:19 |
| jedix | okay, it's going for armv5 | 17:21 |
| jedix | so I should follow that entire site? | 17:21 |
| jedix | lbt: you mentioned a static busybox? | 17:23 |
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| lbt | jedix: not the entire site... that's a complex mishmash for fremantle that's WIP at the moment | 17:24 |
| lbt | It uses the rpm cross build process which I think needs static busybox. | 17:25 |
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| lbt | NB if you get this working can you document what you do in intimate detail please? | 17:25 |
| jedix | I will try, for sure | 17:26 |
| jedix | but to get to this point was hell | 17:26 |
| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Installation | 17:26 |
| jedix | ie: vmware->qemu->vbox to just get the image going | 17:26 |
| jedix | then vbox wasn't working right for the obs | 17:27 |
| jedix | the web stuff was not reachable | 17:27 |
| lbt | mmm xen :) | 17:27 |
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| TSCHAKeee | man | 17:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | and i thought the linuxmce build system was insane | 17:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 17:27 |
| * jedix -> coffee | 17:27 | |
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| lbt | TSCHAKeee: OBS is wonderful | 17:33 |
| * lbt is serious :) | 17:33 | |
| * lbt goes for coffee too | 17:33 | |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 17:34 |
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| jedix | oh sweet coffee | 17:36 |
| jedix | OBS is wonderful? | 17:37 |
| slaine | jedix, you should be able to write a script to pull down all the packages | 17:37 |
| jedix | slaine: wget can do it.. | 17:37 |
| slaine | I did one last year to get all the moblin stuff | 17:37 |
| jedix | not sure what you mean | 17:37 |
| slaine | I probably just didn't know how to use wget to get the directory I wanted | 17:37 |
| jedix | I have the src.rpm's | 17:37 |
| slaine | grand | 17:37 |
| jedix | just grabbing the amrv5 stuff | 17:38 |
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| jedix | so I can bootstrap the puppy | 17:38 |
| slaine | I pulled down all the .src.rpm's to rebuild them | 17:38 |
| slaine | epic fail | 17:38 |
| slaine | hopefully they've sorted their packaging this time around | 17:38 |
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| jedix | oh god | 17:38 |
| jedix | don't tell me I'm setup for an epic fail | 17:38 |
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| slaine | jedix: here's an example | 17:41 |
| slaine | http://lists.moblin.org/pipermail/dev/2009-August/005889.html | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | jedix: i'd wait personally | 17:42 |
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| jedix | what I don't get is this maemo.org/OBS page says it's uisng a repositories | 17:44 |
| jedix | I can't use them | 17:45 |
| jedix | Stskeeps: it's either wait or try myself | 17:45 |
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| jedix | lbt: so are the repositories important in this setup? | 17:48 |
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| slaine | jedix: alot of it is probably still behind the iron curtain | 17:51 |
| jedix | slaine: yeah, that's why I'm wondering if it's necessary | 17:52 |
| slaine | i'd imagine it is as a lot of necessary stuff is still behind said curtain | 17:52 |
| jedix | looking at the howto, they're using debian/ubuntu to bootstrap.. which doesn't really make sense but maybe it doesn't matter, maybe it's just for the inital build | 17:52 |
| slaine | I see the Moorsetown chip is finally out, now called the Atom Z600 | 17:54 |
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| slaine | interesting stuff | 18:03 |
| slaine | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/05/05/intel-announces-atom-z600-series-phones-tablets/ | 18:03 |
| sheepbat | fascinating | 18:03 |
| TSCHAKeee | and what's that they show on the screen? | 18:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | android | 18:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | of course | 18:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | :( | 18:05 |
| TSCHAKeee | (#@(#@ | 18:05 |
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| slaine | Stock phone photo though | 18:06 |
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| thiago | it's an Aava Mobile phone | 18:11 |
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| thiago | how do I order one? | 18:13 |
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| lbt | jedix: that webpage was about building fremantle on obs, not meego. | 18:15 |
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| lbt | it's not a howto... it's a "oh, right. Maybe I could try something like that" guide | 18:15 |
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| jedix | lbt: yeah, just wondering if the repos are necessary | 18:16 |
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| jedix | becuase they seemed to be when I was playing with it | 18:16 |
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| lbt | what do you mean by repo. | 18:17 |
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| jedix | repository | 18:21 |
| slaine | what repository | 18:24 |
| slaine | meego arm repo's or maemo ones | 18:24 |
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| slaine | Oh god NO | 18:54 |
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| slaine | Intel GMA 600 Graphics – Integrated power-optimized 2-D/3-D graphics with up to 400MHz graphics core frequency, support for OpenGL ES2.0, Open GL 2.1, and OpenVG 1.1, and hardware-accelerated7 HD video7 decode (MPEG4 part 2, H.264, WMV & VC1) and encode | 18:55 |
| slaine | (MPEG4 part2, H.264). Supports internal display up to 1366 x 768 LVDS or 1024 x 600 MIPI. | 18:55 |
| slaine | That's what's on the Atom Z600 | 18:55 |
| slaine | Poulsbo++ | 18:55 |
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| Bostik | slaine: I was under the impression that the major problem with poulsbo/GMA500 was that Intel didn't acquire full rights to the system but only licensed the core; hence they never had specs to give out, and even the drivers were written by someone else | 19:00 |
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| slaine | Bostik: precisely. | 19:08 |
| slaine | lovely hardware, little support | 19:08 |
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| Bostik | one can hope they had learned the lesson | 19:09 |
| Bostik | but this is real life, so not much chance of that happening | 19:10 |
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| slaine | It's possible that the IEGD team have gotten upto speed with the driver code | 19:14 |
| slaine | it was a long time ago that Tungsten Graphics wrote the original driver for them. | 19:15 |
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| * CosmoHill offers people cheese toasties | 19:20 | |
| slaine | Awe dude, that's just wrong | 19:21 |
| CosmoHill | no, bottle guy is wrong | 19:21 |
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| slaine | CosmoHill: | 19:23 |
| slaine | Q: "Why don't doctors give cervical exams to women over 65 ? | 19:23 |
| slaine | A: "Have you ever tried to open a cheese toastie ?" | 19:23 |
| CosmoHill | ewww wtf | 19:23 |
| DawnFoster | ok, people | 19:23 |
| * slaine runs for cover | 19:23 | |
| DawnFoster | Just letting you know i'm paying attention :) | 19:23 |
| CosmoHill | i was talking about the food | 19:24 |
| DawnFoster | CosmoHill - you're in the clear, but Slaine is lucky he ran for cover :) | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | :) | 19:24 |
| slaine | almost are rumbled as this guy, http://www.herald.ie/multimedia/archive/00563/2804_crispad_PA_563283t.jpg | 19:24 |
| slaine | s/ are / as / | 19:24 |
| infobot | slaine meant: almost as rumbled as this guy, http://www.herald.ie/multimedia/archive/00563/2804_crispad_PA_563283t.jpg | 19:24 |
| CosmoHill | I feel pretty tired | 19:26 |
| tripzero | you look pretty tired | 19:26 |
| CosmoHill | :| | 19:27 |
| slaine | CosmoHill: yeah, me too. And I've another late night tonight | 19:27 |
| CosmoHill | what you working on? | 19:27 |
| slaine | customized linux distro | 19:29 |
| slaine | based on Fedora at the moment | 19:29 |
| CosmoHill | i have a small custom one for my server | 19:29 |
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| slaine | I need one for our hospital units and set top boxes | 19:29 |
| slaine | we've got a hand rolled one that's mostly ok, I'm working on the tools to create, package, distribute it | 19:30 |
| slaine | from scratch | 19:30 |
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| th0br0 | heya everyone | 19:34 |
| CosmoHill | hey th0br0 | 19:35 |
| th0br0 | let's see what tonight's meeting will bring | 19:35 |
| CosmoHill | I'm watching Ultimate Police Chases: Nowwhere to run | 19:35 |
| CosmoHill | it's horrible editing | 19:35 |
| th0br0 | ^^ | 19:35 |
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| CosmoHill | even tho they've redone it with an english narrator | 19:36 |
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| th0br0 | what is / was the original language? | 19:36 |
| CosmoHill | American | 19:36 |
| CosmoHill | it's just toned down a bit | 19:36 |
| CosmoHill | and less annoying | 19:36 |
| th0br0 | k | 19:38 |
| CosmoHill | still the editing is all over the place | 19:38 |
| CosmoHill | the story is linear but the video clips aren't | 19:38 |
| slaine | th0br0: looking forward to the "* Upcoming Release" agenda item :) | 19:40 |
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| CosmoHill | slaine: I have two assignments due in friday | 19:45 |
| slaine | stop watching car crash tv then | 19:46 |
| slaine | ;) | 19:46 |
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| CosmoHill | my biggest problem now is the report | 19:46 |
| slaine | the non-coding part ? | 19:46 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 19:46 |
| slaine | yeah, no motivation to those parts | 19:46 |
| CosmoHill | i think I'll watch a movie | 19:47 |
| slaine | haha | 19:47 |
| CosmoHill | then work on it after dinner | 19:47 |
| CosmoHill | my game is almost finished | 19:47 |
| CosmoHill | i have a strong urge to watch Roborts | 19:48 |
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| CosmoHill | what I'd like is a good computer monitor that can also handle 16:9 stuff from the DVD or sky box | 19:51 |
| CosmoHill | I do like that the first thing you see is "Do turn your mobile phones off and reframe from talking" | 19:52 |
| CosmoHill | the only DVD I've seen that has it | 19:52 |
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| jedix | slaine: that's what I'm saying | 20:04 |
| jedix | there are no meego repos | 20:04 |
| jedix | and there's no choice in obs to use maemo | 20:04 |
| jedix | so wth do I do? | 20:04 |
| slaine | you wait, like we said earlier | 20:05 |
| slaine | it's all still behind the iron curtain | 20:05 |
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| wolfalohalani | heh | 20:05 |
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| jedix | but the srpms are out | 20:06 |
| jedix | I can't wait | 20:06 |
| wolfalohalani | just for command line, jedix | 20:06 |
| wolfalohalani | no ui yet | 20:06 |
| slaine | there's lots of inconsistencies. there's kickstart files that are public that reference repo urls that are closed etc. | 20:07 |
| slaine | it's a bit of a mess atm. But should clear up over the coming weeks | 20:07 |
| jedix | so the equilivant n900 image x support? | 20:07 |
| wolfalohalani | yes, i think everyone's pretty busy knitting together the codebase | 20:08 |
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| slaine | time to commute | 20:16 |
| slaine | catch you all later | 20:16 |
| CosmoHill | bye | 20:17 |
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| wolfalohalani | so, am i correct in thinking that the meeting is in a little more than 30 minutes? | 20:20 |
| thiago_home | no, you're not | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | it's 99 minutes away | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | 19:00 UTC | 20:21 |
| CosmoHill | hey thiago_home | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | hey CosmoHill | 20:21 |
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| CosmoHill | I'm happy with the code for my assignment :) | 20:22 |
| thiago_home | good | 20:23 |
| thiago_home | but the important question is whether your professor is happy with it too :-P | 20:23 |
| thiago_home | (or the assistant) | 20:23 |
| CosmoHill | i think he's alright with it :0 | 20:24 |
| CosmoHill | it's due in friday | 20:24 |
| CosmoHill | i need to do a 1500 word report on it | 20:24 |
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| wolfalohalani | ah, okay - I'm an hour off | 20:24 |
| wolfalohalani | thanks | 20:24 |
| wolfalohalani | i'm not correcting for daylight savings | 20:25 |
| wolfalohalani | hey Cosmo, what are you writing? | 20:25 |
| CosmoHill | a text based rpg game | 20:25 |
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| wolfalohalani | that sounds like fun | 20:26 |
| CosmoHill | depends how my work is going | 20:26 |
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| wolfalohalani | like a mush? | 20:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | @ <-- the icon for a spiraling vortex of pop culture hell | 20:26 |
| CosmoHill | mush? | 20:26 |
| wolfalohalani | yeah, it was a text-based rpg | 20:27 |
| wolfalohalani | well more like a kind of software you could use to play a rpg | 20:27 |
| wolfalohalani | there were mush'es, moo's, one called tinyMush... | 20:27 |
| wolfalohalani | this was right before mosaic released | 20:28 |
| wolfalohalani | probably no one uses them at all now | 20:28 |
| * TSCHAKeee remembers | 20:28 | |
| TSCHAKeee | <-- old grey haired bastard | 20:29 |
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| CosmoHill | I'm not old or grey haired | 20:29 |
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| DawnFoster | Quick reminder that the TSG meeting starts in 55 minutes (19:00 UTC). | 21:04 |
| thebootroo | ok thx | 21:05 |
| DawnFoster | Agenda / logistics here: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 21:05 |
| th0br0 | Cheers, DawnFoster :) | 21:05 |
| DawnFoster | cheers th0br0 | 21:05 |
| th0br0 | oh, i meant it as "thanks", not bye ;) | 21:05 |
| th0br0 | btw, just *where* does the community come into play in that meego structure graph? | 21:06 |
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| DawnFoster | th0br0 - people can participate in almost any area. | 21:10 |
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| DawnFoster | right now, most of the people running those functions will be intel / nokia until people start contributing and rise up in the ranks based on merit | 21:11 |
| DawnFoster | For example, in the community office, we have people outside of Intel / Nokia in key positions - like Reggie who runs the forum | 21:12 |
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| DawnFoster | In the program office, localization has tons of contributions from people doing community translations. | 21:12 |
| DawnFoster | anyone can submit bugs, contribute patches, etc. | 21:13 |
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| th0br0 | what about community-run initiatives? | 21:15 |
| th0br0 | I don't really see any place for that in there. | 21:15 |
| th0br0 | .seen lbt | 21:15 |
| th0br0 | .any lbt | 21:16 |
| th0br0 | mh. | 21:16 |
| wolfalohalani | morning Dawn | 21:16 |
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| DawnFoster | Community run initiatives can happen anywhere | 21:18 |
| DawnFoster | wherever they make the most sense. | 21:18 |
| DawnFoster | some might fall under the community office, while others, like localization, fall into other areas | 21:19 |
| wolfalohalani | Dawn, I'm just getting ramped up - do the TSG's happen every week at the same time? | 21:19 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: your topic got cut off in the meeting room | 21:20 |
| DawnFoster | the TSGs happen every week at the same time. | 21:23 |
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| DawnFoster | if we cancel them, you'll see a note at the top of the TSG wiki page: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 21:23 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps - thanks - should be fixed now | 21:23 |
| wolfalohalani | okay, thanks | 21:23 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: when things step up something like ubuntu's 'fridge' meeting calendar could be nice | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | ie, show when the meeting room is booked | 21:28 |
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| VDVsx | Stskeeps, what about mfe ? </troll> :D | 21:31 |
| * VDVsx hides | 21:32 | |
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| DawnFoster | stskeeps: yeah, we'll need something like that | 21:34 |
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| mskarpneircfreen | /NICK mskarpne | 21:49 |
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| DawnFoster | oops :) | 21:50 |
| jedix | So.. I have a repo made, but I don't know how to setup a Cross compile for OBS | 21:50 |
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| demee_ | hi all | 21:50 |
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| jedix | hello | 21:51 |
| wolfalohalani | hello again jedix | 21:52 |
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| lbt | slaine: I propose we update the protocol to include a "raise hand for question" | 22:25 |
| slaine | I thought the whole point of putting QUESTION in front of a comment was that it was noted and addressed in due course | 22:25 |
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| DawnFoster | slaine the problem is that questions get lost. We've had times where we're like 10 questions behind - it's too hard to manage | 22:26 |
| slaine | So how do I ask a question then ? | 22:26 |
| DawnFoster | wait until this question is wrapping up | 22:26 |
| slaine | (it had gone quiet when I started typing it, so I thought everyone had said their piece) | 22:27 |
| DawnFoster | no worries - we'll wrap this one up | 22:27 |
| lbt | slaine: that's why we need a raise hands :) | 22:27 |
| DawnFoster | we're still working out the bugs in the process :) | 22:28 |
| lbt | slaine: I'll be looking for beta testers RSN for the meego-community OBS that we're building | 22:30 |
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| lbt | slaine: and make sure you cc -dev on the mail to Imad :) ... | 22:31 |
| tekojo | slaine the idea with extras is pretty much to host your type of thing | 22:31 |
| slaine | totally, but as arjan points out, that might not always be the case | 22:32 |
| tekojo | legal questions naturally need to be looked at sure, but at least the wlan drivers are clean? | 22:32 |
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| slaine | well, that depends on who to you talk to | 22:33 |
| slaine | GregKH took exception to me providing a binary rpm of the broadcom drivers as he sees any kernel drivers as derivative works and therefore covered by the GPL | 22:34 |
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| slaine | I respected his position and came up with a more complicated source rpm route | 22:35 |
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| tekojo | which works nicely, but is hard to distribute | 22:35 |
| slaine | yes, took a good bit work to make it as simple as possible | 22:36 |
| * lbt stomps all over lcuk | 22:37 | |
| th0br0 | thanks lbt for posing that question earlier ;) | 22:37 |
| slaine | yes, I was going to follow up, WHEN THE TIME WAS RIGHT, ;) | 22:37 |
| lcuk | its ok lbt i was OT - thought we were on other business and arjans point piqued interest | 22:37 |
| th0br0 | but I'm happy to see some constructive tsg meeting today | 22:39 |
| lcuk | meeto :) | 22:39 |
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| th0br0 | :) | 22:39 |
| lcuk | formatting and balance is very comfortable and people are managing to speak clearly | 22:40 |
| lcuk | even when misfires occur | 22:40 |
| lbt | arjan: I'm just prodding about mic2 vs kiwi... IMHO you should aim to move away from mic2 | 22:41 |
| lbt | but clearly not until something meets the needs | 22:41 |
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| Stskeeps | well, at least the project structure looks sane | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | even though some annotation would be good | 22:44 |
| arjan | lbt: I disagree. | 22:45 |
| arjan | lbt: kiwi is not there yet. and also, sometimes it's ok to be leading in some area rather than following. | 22:45 |
| lbt | OK but you did say "=0" | 22:45 |
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| ezjd__ | I wasn't there when meeting started. But I have an impression now is that MeeGo will be a distribution only and any "dev projects" will be treated similar like other upstream projects like x.org. Am I right? | 22:46 |
| arjan | ezjd__: more or less, but they're still under the meego name/project | 22:47 |
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| arjan | it's ok to take credit for the work we all do for meego | 22:47 |
| thiago_home | then there are the apps | 22:47 |
| arjan | we're not, say, ubuntu or some other integration-only distro | 22:47 |
| thiago_home | sample and real apps for each segment | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | ezjd__: that's probably good though | 22:47 |
| dhq | does meego have better maps than maemo5 | 22:47 |
| lbt | ezjd__: not quite... we think the Extras-ish will help | 22:47 |
| thiago_home | like the desktop/homescreen | 22:47 |
| thiago_home | dhq: not yet | 22:48 |
| dhq | oh | 22:48 |
| dhq | thankx for the info :) | 22:48 |
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| lbt | arjan: I know how important security is. I am not surprised it's being done right. I just want to see it explicitly :) | 22:48 |
| ezjd__ | That sounds OK to me. My next question is that for a dev project like UI framework I am interested, will it run pretty much independent to MeeGo? | 22:49 |
| thiago_home | hmm... not so much | 22:49 |
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| thiago_home | its main goal is to provide a UI framework for meego, so it can't be that independent | 22:50 |
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| lbt | thiago_home: but it would be nice to ensure it is not "designed to be unuseable" | 22:51 |
| lbt | ie it uses standard apis, is freedesktop compliant etc. | 22:51 |
| thiago_home | lol | 22:51 |
| ezjd__ | thiago_home: But I though it will be easy to use MeeGo framework on other distribution since the underlying infrastructure is very similar. | 22:51 |
| thiago_home | well, it might be designed to be used on meego only | 22:51 |
| thiago_home | making it work on other distros may not be easy | 22:52 |
| thiago_home | for example, current Maemo SDKs use Scratchbox. That's a PITA to get working outside of Debian 32-bit based distros. | 22:52 |
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| lbt | thiago_home: give me a week... | 22:53 |
| lbt | we have a community OBS running | 22:53 |
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| thiago_home | I don't want an OBS. I want to build on my own machine. | 22:53 |
| thiago_home | but fortunately, I've already built my own toolchain. It works just fine. | 22:54 |
| lbt | then you don't understand OBS :) | 22:54 |
| thiago_home | except Creator is hardcoded to think that "anything that isn't MADDE is Desktop" | 22:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | whose fault is that? | 22:54 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P | 22:54 |
| thiago_home | the berlin guys, of course, but I didn't insist on a fix because I know they have more important things to do. | 22:54 |
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| lbt | ooh, shiney....we're getting a gui... | 22:56 |
| lbt | and by the sound of it... xeyes too! | 22:56 |
| thiago_home | what? no more xterm only? | 22:56 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: dang, and I was hoping we'd keep the fancy terminal window as the UI :) | 22:56 |
| microlith | woohoo, xeyes! | 22:56 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: can I ask a question now ? Or should I keep waiting ? | 22:56 |
| thiago_home | xeyes for touch interface :-) | 22:56 |
| lbt | they're letting in the riff raff now :) | 22:56 |
| DawnFoster | We're about out of time | 22:56 |
| ezjd__ | Looks like to me that the UI is Moblin UI only :) | 22:57 |
| Stskeeps | i think some questions or #meego afterdiscussion might be worthwhile personally | 22:58 |
| vgrade | agreed | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | handset UX not being part is a bit of a shocker :) | 22:58 |
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| Stskeeps | (even though it does lessen the pain a bit that it's coming out soon after.) | 22:58 |
| lbt | sound like a scheduling issue? | 22:58 |
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| Stskeeps | probably a team that didn't deliver | 22:58 |
| slaine | lol | 22:59 |
| lbt | slackers! | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | (so it goes everywhere) | 22:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | wtf | 22:59 |
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| TSCHAKeee | no handset UX? | 22:59 |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee: +1 hr | 22:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | :( | 22:59 |
| slaine | they couldn't get back from Beijing in time ;) | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: nah, just delayed | 22:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | shit i missed it again? | 22:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | :( | 22:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | today has totally sucked | 22:59 |
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| lbt | really pleased to see the "structure" diagram... thanks DawnFoster :) | 23:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | girlfriend dumped me, another job offer told me no, broke, electrics about to be turned off, rent not paid. | 23:00 |
| lbt | ouch TSCHAKeee :( | 23:00 |
| lbt | heh... I hear MeeGo is hiring.... | 23:00 |
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| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: perfect time to apply for a job at meego devices | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:01 |
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| slaine | Oh really ? | 23:01 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: we're having some issues with the meetbot - none of the topics appeared in the minutes | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: hmm. | 23:01 |
| vgrade | No loss tere | 23:01 |
| lbt | yeah distmaster... go debug it | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: i'll take a look | 23:01 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, the first time I installed the xeyes widget on Fremantle I had my N900 sitting on my desk. Tapped all over the screen trying to get them to move before I realized it was accelerometer based. . . . | 23:01 |
| DawnFoster | TSCHAKeee: yikes - sorry about your day | 23:01 |
| slaine | I saw them earlier ( was 10 mins late and looked at the online log) | 23:01 |
| * lbt makes a note never to write a quick script to help someone out.... | 23:01 | |
| lcuk | lbt he would debug it, but the OBS wont build the debug tools :p | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: i think one of the issues might have been that it wasn't opped from start on | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | i'll quickly test that theory | 23:02 |
| thiago_home | GAN900: hehehe | 23:02 |
| th0br0 | DawnFoster: uh, as long as the logs are complete | 23:02 |
| th0br0 | you can always just replay them | 23:02 |
| th0br0 | I guess the <'s and >'s might have confused meetbot | 23:02 |
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| th0br0 | oh nvm he's already add that ,) | 23:02 |
| lcuk | GAN900, xeyes is the first time any of liqbase code was integrated into another app o_O | 23:02 |
| th0br0 | s/add that/at it/ | 23:03 |
| infobot | th0br0 meant: oh nvm he's already at it ,) | 23:03 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: yeah, i think it was that :/ | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: i'll see if there's some commands for log replay | 23:03 |
| th0br0 | btw, lbt, what's that about obs and you? | 23:03 |
| lbt | th0br0: rpm school! | 23:03 |
| th0br0 | Stskeeps: afair there are. | 23:03 |
| th0br0 | lbt: yes? | 23:03 |
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| lbt | th0br0: I'm setting up an OBS with X-Fade | 23:03 |
| th0br0 | for teacing packaging? | 23:04 |
| th0br0 | *teaching | 23:04 |
| lbt | it will be a prototype for the community OBS for Maemo and MeeGo | 23:04 |
| lbt | so, 2 topics th0br0 :) | 23:04 |
| th0br0 | :) ok, cool. | 23:04 |
| lbt | 1. Community OBS (as you asked about) | 23:04 |
| th0br0 | community OBS MeeGo -> repository wg? | 23:04 |
| lbt | 2. RPM training (I need help) | 23:04 |
| lbt | yes community OBS MeeGo -> repository wg | 23:05 |
| th0br0 | go ahead, I'll try to help you as best as i can. | 23:05 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: if you give me a bit i'll see if i can make a new log that fixes things :) | 23:05 |
| lbt | god it's hard when you interleave irc with yourself | 23:05 |
| th0br0 | that's great to hear. I've to admit i haven't been following the mailing lists recently; too much trolling. but everything seems to be taking on form now, I guess I'll start doing it again. | 23:05 |
| lbt | so, my internal team at nokia is doing some work to help the internal devs learn how to transition from deb to rpm | 23:06 |
| lbt | and we are getting permission to publish that to meego.com wiki | 23:06 |
| th0br0 | huh, you're from nokia? | 23:06 |
| lbt | with my other hat on, yes | 23:06 |
| th0br0 | oh, didn't know that :) | 23:06 |
| lbt | I'm a community bod ... they hired me | 23:07 |
| th0br0 | ok | 23:07 |
| lbt | :) | 23:07 |
| th0br0 | recently? | 23:07 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: thanks so much for looking into it! | 23:07 |
| lbt | so I advocate from the inside too ... gently | 23:07 |
| th0br0 | ^^ ok | 23:07 |
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| lbt | 6+ months | 23:07 |
| th0br0 | oh right | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | and seemingily i'm outed by now as working for meego too :P | 23:08 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: weird, I op'ed it about 15 minutes before the meeting | 23:08 |
| th0br0 | so what do you need my help on? | 23:08 |
| lbt | th0br0: basically the guys writing this stuff are learning as they go | 23:08 |
| th0br0 | I'll only be around for about 30-45 minutes more tonite as i'm writing a test tomorrow, but i'll be around from 16:00 CEST tomorrow I guess. | 23:08 |
| th0br0 | ok. | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: that is weird | 23:09 |
| lbt | so would take any advice if you get time to keep an eye on it | 23:09 |
| th0br0 | lbt: sure. | 23:09 |
| lbt | eg http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Deb_conversion_example | 23:09 |
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| lbt | on a general note, we really need to look at meego policy | 23:10 |
| lbt | it's a tad vague in places :) | 23:10 |
| th0br0 | there is no really complete official one yet is there? | 23:10 |
| th0br0 | k | 23:10 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Documentation_backlog | 23:10 |
| lbt | no. | 23:10 |
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| lcuk | lbt i thought make install was depreciated yet its squarly in the middle of the example? | 23:11 |
| lbt | it's a crucial part of making it work | 23:11 |
| lbt | lcuk: correct | 23:11 |
| Jaffa | Ev'ning | 23:11 |
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| lbt | lcuk: just like distributing src is deprecated... :) | 23:11 |
| lcuk | and wont the rm -rf be dangerous depending on buildroot location | 23:11 |
| th0br0 | lcuk: | 23:11 |
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| th0br0 | no | 23:11 |
| th0br0 | buildroot is a chroot | 23:11 |
| th0br0 | *must* be | 23:11 |
| lcuk | hopefully will be else ww3 occurs | 23:12 |
| lbt | lcuk: you can be a guinea pig too ... you'll learn lots and you can help debug it | 23:12 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Does the Nokia Qt SDK do anything with packaging? | 23:12 |
| lbt | I also took a look at changelogs this week | 23:12 |
| lcuk | th0br0, i come from a simpler time when you didnt need external services and chroots just to build some cdoe | 23:12 |
| lcuk | code | 23:12 |
| th0br0 | true | 23:12 |
| lbt | Jaffa: yes, it makes .debs :) | 23:12 |
| th0br0 | but you need that when creating packages ;) | 23:12 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Guidelines#Changelogs | 23:12 |
| lcuk | thats just scary tho! | 23:13 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Right, so targetted at Ovi and closed source stuff | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: new theory - qgil was chairing the meeting and hence it ignored all your #topic's | 23:13 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Bah, humbug. | 23:13 |
| lbt | Jaffa: I'm not up-to-date to be fair :) | 23:13 |
| th0br0 | https://fedorahosted.org/rpmdevtools/ << any plans on getting that into meego repo? | 23:13 |
| lbt | although I'd expect it to be aimed at VB-level coders :) | 23:13 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: oh, interesting | 23:13 |
| Jaffa | lbt: I'd be surprised if it spat out a .tar.gz with a debian/ and a .dsc (or a .tar.gz and a .spec) | 23:14 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: that's how I made my toolchain. A cross-compiler and a --sysroot= switch | 23:14 |
| lbt | Jaffa: I saw something on the ml to that effect | 23:14 |
| Jaffa | lbt: don't you know - it's the future! | 23:14 |
| lbt | I think | 23:14 |
| lbt | bah humbug | 23:14 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, i just said sod it and built directly on device | 23:14 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: I'm in a meeting now, but we should try to confirm that | 23:14 |
| lcuk | make install on the n900 is surprisingly effective | 23:14 |
| DawnFoster | and keep in mind that chair must set topics | 23:15 |
| lcuk | same as gcc | 23:15 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: my N900 has nowhere the processing power of the compile farm in the office | 23:15 |
| lcuk | sure but if you are modifying a single widget within your app its fine | 23:15 |
| lbt | th0br0: need more info... but arjan is probably the man to ask. I'd suggest putting it into extras though | 23:15 |
| lcuk | most people do not require to build all of qt | 23:15 |
| * Jaffa 's N900 seems to have the power of our build farm for the past few days :( | 23:15 | |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: i just confirmed it by editing the log file and replaying it after editing all DawnFoster> #topic to qgil> #topic | 23:15 |
| th0br0 | ok lbt | 23:15 |
| Jaffa | Damn VMware | 23:15 |
| lcuk | its same pricniple as just using python | 23:15 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: even libqt4-dev is maybe too big for the device | 23:15 |
| lcuk | sure - but pyqt works and includes all the same defines... | 23:16 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: thanks! that seems like a bug to me :) | 23:16 |
| DawnFoster | but one we can work around | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-05-05-18.58.html is fixed minutes, old ones left as http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-05-05-18.58-broken.html | 23:16 |
| lbt | lcuk: the problem is that make install is selfish :) | 23:16 |
| th0br0 | lbt: http://pastebin.com/urrKi4MK | 23:16 |
| lcuk | ergo - it SHOULD work | 23:16 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: that's different, that's python | 23:16 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, think about the principle tho | 23:16 |
| th0br0 | Source0 upstream or debian/copyright << doesn't make much sense | 23:17 |
| lcuk | you say libqt4-dev wont work | 23:17 |
| lcuk | that is just a list of function defines etc | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: next time quim or you can do #chair DawnFoster | 23:17 |
| lbt | th0br0: so we're looking at templating and accelerating package creation. So "hints and tips" like this that eventually become best practice | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: and it will accept you as chair as well | 23:17 |
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| th0br0 | *much sense | 23:17 |
| th0br0 | sure lbt | 23:17 |
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| DawnFoster | perfect! I'll add that to my notes & I'll let quim know about this | 23:17 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: one more thing: the libqt4 build is a cross compilation, so uic, moc, rcc and qmake are x86 binaries | 23:18 |
| th0br0 | IMHO it would be easier to semi-copy fedora's packaging guideline in the end tho... i doubt that packaging policy will differ that much | 23:18 |
| lbt | ImadSousou: are you around? | 23:18 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, well compile those for arm | 23:18 |
| lbt | th0br0: 100% agree! | 23:18 |
| th0br0 | but nvm. | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: have a good meeting, i'm afk for tonight :) (and remember to post the minutes to mailing list) | 23:18 |
| th0br0 | :) | 23:18 |
| lbt | th0br0: no. please do mind.... | 23:18 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: yeah, but we haven't done that yet | 23:18 |
| th0br0 | yeah right :) | 23:18 |
| Jaffa | lbt: did you see gcobb and I kicking around the idea of making mud target SRPM (on meego-dev)? | 23:18 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, whats gonna happen when theres arm chipset big enough to be usable as desktop | 23:19 |
| th0br0 | that deb_conversion_example is just a draft tho, right? | 23:19 |
| lbt | Jaffa: I want you + gcobb to help me proto my community OBS | 23:19 |
| lcuk | isnt it just a case of building full qt for arm | 23:19 |
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| thiago_home | lcuk: when that happens, desktops will be still 10x faster | 23:19 |
| lbt | th0br0: it's a "release early" and the best we can do so far :) | 23:19 |
| lcuk | are you sure? | 23:19 |
| lbt | (help) | 23:19 |
| th0br0 | i mean, transmission might be a bad example if you don't build subpackages / transmissiond... after all, you don't have to use %config etc otherwise | 23:19 |
| Jaffa | lbt: happy to :) | 23:19 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps - have a good night, and thanks for the corrected minutes - I'll post to the mailing list shortly :) | 23:19 |
| th0br0 | the best based upon the OBS status or your knowledge? | 23:19 |
| lbt | Jaffa: I think that will replace/supercede mud | 23:20 |
| lbt | kinda | 23:20 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: pretty much. ARM is not targetting server business. | 23:20 |
| th0br0 | besides, shouldn't Requires: meego-lsb be actually part of the default buildroot? | 23:20 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, all im saying is its technically feasible to do native compilation, it may be impractical in the qt sense | 23:20 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: it's targetting the low power market | 23:20 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Yeah, I think you're right. Probably. | 23:20 |
| th0br0 | You can split buildrequires to multiple lines to facilitate readability | 23:20 |
| lbt | th0br0: mmm | 23:20 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: sure, technically it is feasible. | 23:20 |
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| thiago_home | lcuk: my whole point was practicality. It's a lot more practical to cross-compile and deploy. | 23:20 |
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| th0br0 | you forgot to remove the group in %postun lbt | 23:20 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, ifa cluster of arm chips can fit 100x more chips in a cabinet because of their power profile then its feasible | 23:20 |
| lbt | th0br0: not me :) | 23:20 |
| Jaffa | lbt: But then we'll want the app SDK to spit out something which can be submitted to the community OBS | 23:21 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: the office next to mine is the S60 Test Lab | 23:21 |
| lbt | th0br0: actually I admit, I've barely read it | 23:21 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:21 |
| lbt | Jaffa: *nod* | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | so, who's up for making a emacs based handset UX since we won't have one for n900? ;) | 23:21 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: there are about 50 N97s, 5800, N86 and N95 in there | 23:21 |
| lbt | Jaffa: and we get osc build too | 23:21 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: woo hoo | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | (until it's out) | 23:21 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: they had to install an extra A/C | 23:21 |
| th0br0 | ok | 23:21 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: see org-mode! | 23:21 |
| thiago_home | it's noisy inside | 23:21 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: *nod* - but remembering app SDK runs on more than Linux :) | 23:22 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Eclipse UX ;) | 23:22 |
| thiago_home | though, truth be told, the noise and heat come from the base cradles and the routers | 23:22 |
| lbt | th0br0: please feel free to edit the page/discussion page | 23:22 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: yes, so does osc :) | 23:22 |
| lcuk | heh thiago_home | 23:22 |
| lbt | o/ InformatiQ | 23:22 |
| th0br0 | lbt: will you be around tomorrow? | 23:22 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Eclipse Clearly Leads In People Superceding Emacs | 23:23 |
| lbt | yes.. ping me to get my attention | 23:23 |
| th0br0 | ok. i'll try to give the page some love too | 23:23 |
| Jaffa | lbt: ah, cool. Last time I asked the response was less.... positive | 23:23 |
| lbt | Jaffa: Eclipse. emacs for the 23rd century... | 23:23 |
| Jaffa | lbt: zactly :) | 23:23 |
| lbt | ie you need to wait that long for CPUs to run it in real time! | 23:24 |
| thiago_home | does Eclipse still have a button to run the garbage collector? | 23:24 |
| Jaffa | thiago_home: No, that's always been a third-party plugin | 23:24 |
| * lbt is convinced java is a black-ops project by Kingston | 23:24 | |
| Jaffa | thiago_home: which I've never had need for, but some of my colleagues like it for its provision of a memory monitor | 23:25 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: like "humans were invented by water to transport it uphill" ? | 23:25 |
| RST38h | ! | 23:25 |
| RST38h | thiago: bsd fortune cookie db? | 23:25 |
| th0br0 | by kingston? huh? | 23:26 |
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| lbt | they make memory... | 23:26 |
| Jaffa | th0br0: Memory manufacturer | 23:26 |
| th0br0 | ah huh... :D | 23:26 |
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| * CosmoHill didn't fall asleep >.> | 23:26 | |
| Jaffa | Someone asked today if our product would run, in production, on a 1GHz Celeron with 18MB of RAM. "No" was the short answer. | 23:27 |
| Jaffa | Ha, er, s/18/128/ | 23:27 |
| th0br0 | just who still uses such old systems in production | 23:27 |
| lcuk | thats high spec! | 23:27 |
| vgrade | The relase has been branched and is being matured now (qgil, 19:50:30), anyone have a link? | 23:28 |
| Jaffa | th0br0: Noone, it was a new grad employee looking foolish :) | 23:28 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: written in java? =) | 23:28 |
| th0br0 | ah ok | 23:28 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Indeed | 23:28 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: well...you know... | 23:29 |
| th0br0 | Java rocks! | 23:29 |
| lbt | yeah, grads... | 23:29 |
| Jaffa | th0br0: Trying to impress with his knowledge of CPU types or something | 23:29 |
| th0br0 | Isn't that what you wanted to say, RST38h? ;) | 23:29 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Shush you. | 23:29 |
| * lbt hugs java | 23:29 | |
| lbt | tightly | 23:29 |
| lbt | very very tightly | 23:29 |
| RST38h | necrophile | 23:29 |
| * lcuk drinks java | 23:29 | |
| th0br0 | RST38h: not at all. | 23:29 |
| * Stskeeps glances at minutes | 23:30 | |
| lcuk | lbt - round the neck? | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | 'director of nokia meego' | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | is that meego devices or what does that mean? :P | 23:30 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: "owner" would sound cooler | 23:30 |
| lbt | I saw that Stskeeps... ain't irc conversation.... persistent | 23:30 |
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| lcuk | it means a guy called meego is now director of nokia | 23:30 |
| RST38h | (I know we cannot wish for "emperor") | 23:30 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Presumably th former. Otherwwise: game over. | 23:30 |
| Jaffa | lbt: could be worse, could be trying to be a cross-platform, web-based product ISV with C++ | 23:31 |
| lbt | yeah. that'd never work! | 23:31 |
| lcuk | what about those suckers that built kernels and things in .. c ? | 23:32 |
| lbt | not unless you had a mobile phone sugar daddy | 23:32 |
| lcuk | surely it wouldv been better in java :D | 23:32 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: perhaps different technologies are better suited to different tasks? | 23:32 |
| lbt | (there (is (only) (one) true) way) | 23:32 |
| lcuk | indeed | 23:32 |
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| lcuk | perl for web apps | 23:33 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: There'll probably be a port of DUI to JavaScript output. GWT for Qt <shudder/> | 23:33 |
| * suihkulokki remembers the days when sun was boldly claiming how every bulb will have a ip address and run on picojava... | 23:33 | |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Perl's the exception. It's perfect for everything. | 23:34 |
| suihkulokki | except reading? | 23:34 |
| Jaffa | suihkulokki: LightFactory? | 23:34 |
| th0br0 | Perl is outdated. | 23:34 |
| Jaffa | suihkulokki: Well, yes :) | 23:34 |
| Stskeeps | write once, cry everywhere | 23:34 |
| lbt | perl6 man!! | 23:34 |
| th0br0 | C++ for webapps! Wt++! | 23:34 |
| lcuk | and demonstrating your fact jaffa, i compiled your comment up and its a working xml processor! | 23:34 |
| th0br0 | (wihtout the ++ after Wt tho) | 23:34 |
| th0br0 | http://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt | 23:35 |
| th0br0 | ;) | 23:35 |
| lbt | Jaffa: so... mud on an OBS... | 23:35 |
| lbt | how does that work then? | 23:35 |
| lbt | is it just about declaring a repo that is "meegoplus" | 23:35 |
| Jaffa | lbt: On N900 so dodgy West Coast Main Line data | 23:35 |
| lbt | and bunging a load of libraries+apps in there | 23:36 |
| lbt | ah, commuting? | 23:36 |
| slaine | What's wrong with C you guys | 23:36 |
| Jaffa | lbt: can the repo have a pre-processor? "mud" would then munge whatever it got in with some heuristics | 23:36 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: yeah, late nights for next 3 months or so. | 23:37 |
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| lbt | I'm thinking that we should focus on a repo and some policy first | 23:37 |
| lbt | with a strong eye to automating it with mud l8r | 23:37 |
| lbt | I'm also writing an event system for nokia OBS/QA systems | 23:38 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: absolutely, you mentioned mus ;) | 23:38 |
| Jaffa | bah. sodding keyboard | 23:38 |
| lbt | well, just keeping you keen :) | 23:38 |
| bfree | Intel state the z6xx (Moorestown) will support Meego so does anyone know if that means they are going to produce a Free "driver" for the powerVR based gma600? | 23:39 |
| th0br0 | right, I'm really out now. bye. Jaffa I'd prefer to have a MeeGo MUD :) | 23:39 |
| Jaffa | lbt: there are loads of comments on meego-* about providing h/w for repos etc. Didn't Mer use OpenSuSE's? What's the story there? | 23:39 |
| lbt | we want our own IMHO | 23:39 |
| lbt | we'd integrate with SSO | 23:39 |
| th0br0 | (where MUD == "Multi User Dungeon") ;) /me signs off. | 23:40 |
| lbt | automate promotion like the autobuilder | 23:40 |
| Jaffa | th0br0: You have encountered a tmo troll waving a 770 at you. You have: no tea. | 23:40 |
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| lbt | plus the opensuse OBS is heavily used....ie slow | 23:40 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Thought: EC2 or similar for scalability | 23:40 |
| lbt | heh... I have an AWS account | 23:40 |
| lbt | I'm working on it :) | 23:41 |
| Jaffa | lbt: :) | 23:41 |
| lbt | worried about security though | 23:41 |
| lbt | we can't create a VM inside an EC2 VM | 23:41 |
| Jaffa | lbt: They're doing VPN stuff now, AFAIK | 23:41 |
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| InformatiQ | i hear the N word | 23:41 |
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| lbt | and chroot is escapable.... | 23:41 |
| InformatiQ | dragged in mud | 23:41 |
| lbt | hey InformatiQ... yes indeed | 23:41 |
| InformatiQ | have respect | 23:42 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Some h/w as core & master - then spawning EC2 instances when demand is high | 23:42 |
| InformatiQ | now EC2 | 23:42 |
| lbt | the problem is that the EC2 systems would run user-provided stuff as root | 23:42 |
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| InformatiQ | some one breif me in | 23:42 |
| Jaffa | lbt: Ah. | 23:42 |
| lbt | InformatiQ: possibly scaling the OBS using EC2 workers... | 23:42 |
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| lbt | I've been looking at it | 23:43 |
| lbt | Jaffa: yes... ah | 23:43 |
| InformatiQ | hmmm not bad | 23:43 |
| Jaffa | lbt: sbox uses chroot ultimately, we don't worry about escapage on Maemo autobuilder | 23:43 |
| Jaffa | (o we?) | 23:43 |
| InformatiQ | on demand workers in cases of high load | 23:43 |
| InformatiQ | pas as you go | 23:43 |
| lbt | Jaffa: stakes are higher | 23:43 |
| lbt | InformatiQ: *nod* | 23:43 |
| Jaffa | lbt: true | 23:43 |
| Jaffa | InformatiQ: exactly | 23:43 |
| Jaffa | Reduces capital expenditure for community repo too, especially at start | 23:44 |
| Jaffa | Easier sell to sponsors | 23:44 |
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| InformatiQ | and what is mud? | 23:45 |
| lbt | it would be an interesting thing to make work... | 23:45 |
| Jaffa | InformatiQ: http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org - makes it easier to create Debian packages for Maemo from upstreams (e.g. tarballs, svn etc.) without upstream having Debian packaging support | 23:47 |
| Jaffa | InformatiQ: And without maintaining a whole copy of upstream just to add that, especially when most of it is machine creatable. | 23:48 |
| InformatiQ | sounds interesting but depends on the implementation | 23:48 |
| lbt | Jaffa: this is one reason I'd like us to adopt a policy of "when in doubt, Suse/Fedora/... is upstream" | 23:49 |
| Jaffa | InformatiQ: I'd point you to my vim & vala packages in MUD if I wasn't on a slow, laggy link | 23:49 |
| Jaffa | lbt: problem with a similarly packaged upstream is if it's base policies (dependency names, package responsibilities) aren't compatible. | 23:50 |
| lbt | *exactly* | 23:50 |
| Jaffa | lbt: found that with the Debian upstream mode of mud early on | 23:50 |
| lbt | this is the reason I'm pissed that MeeGo didn't make that statement for the core | 23:50 |
| lbt | it wouldn't have hurt... | 23:51 |
| Jaffa | lbt: which is why mostly "upstream" for mud packages is real upstream | 23:51 |
| lbt | yeah, which means you still need to follow a package chain, find the upstream etc | 23:51 |
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| lbt | you can't just adopt the package chain and create a -maemo1 variant :) | 23:52 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: indeed | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | lbt: and it only gets worse over time :( | 23:53 |
| lbt | and it adds zero value | 23:53 |
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| * lbt grinds teeth :) | 23:54 | |
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| * lcuk shoots lbt, my teeth are sore again | 23:55 | |
| * lcuk needs a new mouth | 23:55 | |
| * lbt wonders just what would be possible on a community OBS... | 23:56 | |
| lbt | hmm | 23:56 |
| lcuk | lbt if i were developing at home | 23:56 |
| lcuk | how would i make a package to install/test myself | 23:57 |
| lcuk | does everything need to go through obs | 23:57 |
| CosmoHill | http://xkcd.com/ | 23:57 |
| CosmoHill | lol! | 23:57 |
| lbt | I think your dad did that lcuk | 23:57 |
| lcuk | groan | 23:57 |
| lbt | you mean for the OBS | 23:58 |
| lbt | you know you were talking chroots earlier | 23:58 |
| lcuk | i mean, if im developing appXYZ | 23:58 |
| lcuk | and i want to test it on my device | 23:58 |
| lbt | hmmm | 23:58 |
| lcuk | currently i dpkg_buildpackage and jobs done i copy .deb and install | 23:58 |
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| lbt | rpmbuild | 23:59 |
| lcuk | (assuming scratchbox style) | 23:59 |
| InformatiQ | lcuk: should be the same with osc build | 23:59 |
| lbt | write a tarball, specfile, run rpmbuild and you get an rpm | 23:59 |
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