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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| dl9pf_ | lbt: just read the kernel pastie ... what should i say - looks _really_ user-friendly | 00:06 |
| CosmoHill | cyas tr | 00:06 |
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| lbt | dl9pf_: it's.... actually quite sad :) | 00:19 |
| lbt | I set out to document the kernel packaging but got depressed | 00:20 |
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| lbt | I hate debugging code that uses deep inheritance as an interface | 00:32 |
| CosmoHill | i had a problem with my code and i had to work out if it was at level 1 or 3 | 00:32 |
| lbt | my personal stack pops at about 30 levels of function call depth | 00:32 |
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| dockside | do you ppl know of any cheap arm platforms? all i really "need" on it is some sort of decent cpu, some 128MBish RAM and usb host/otg | 00:36 |
| lbt | smartQ5/7 ? | 00:37 |
| lbt | N800 or N810 ? | 00:37 |
| dockside | looks a tad fancy, has screen and stuff :) | 00:38 |
| dockside | im thinking more in the lines of a beagleboard with less features :) | 00:39 |
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| dockside | think it will have to be beagleboard :) | 00:42 |
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| dockside | it's for my cleaning robot >_> | 00:42 |
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| DawnFoster | Wondering if Quim and others from the Linux Foundation CollabSummit are still trapped in San Francisco. | 00:50 |
| DawnFoster | As of around noon, Quim was in yet another line to try to get on a flight. | 00:50 |
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| zenvoid | dockside: SAKC maybe? http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/SAKC | 00:53 |
| lcuk | :( DawnFoster | 00:53 |
| lcuk | meego powered cleaning robot o_O | 00:53 |
| thiago_home | DawnFoster: our guy is still in SF | 00:53 |
| thiago_home | so I think Quim is too | 00:53 |
| Myrtti | he boarded the flight to Frankfurt some time ago | 00:54 |
| DawnFoster | yeah, huge bummer. granted there are worse places to be stuck than San Francisco, but people want to get home to their families. | 00:54 |
| thiago_home | German air space wasn't open until today | 00:54 |
| lcuk | Myrtti, ? hes coming back to euro? | 00:54 |
| Myrtti | 47 minutes ago, according to Facebook | 00:54 |
| lcuk | or rather, on his way | 00:54 |
| lcuk | :) great | 00:54 |
| DawnFoster | Myrtti: oh sweet! That was the line he was in when I talked to him earlier | 00:54 |
| thiago_home | he couldn't have boarded | 00:54 |
| DawnFoster | happy to hear it | 00:54 |
| Myrtti | "Quim Gil About to board for Frankfurt. I think I got the last Economy seat, in the last minute. Even if Ronan and I had done exactly the same steps he didn't get in, no matter how much we explained. That was not nice. :( Now I'll have to figure out the way to get from Frankfurt to Helsinki. You haver 10 hours to post here useful tips." | 00:55 |
| thiago_home | ok, then that's right | 00:55 |
| lcuk | jaffa is also en route - in a car in denmark atm | 00:55 |
| thiago_home | someone from the office spent 35 hours to get back to Oslo during the weekend | 00:55 |
| thiago_home | from Geneva | 00:55 |
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| thiago_home | train + ferry + rental car | 00:56 |
| lcuk | yeah lots of upsets | 00:56 |
| frals | frankfurt to hel shouldnt be that bad | 00:56 |
| lcuk | local economies and hotels out of the way and hire care componanies and ferries and stuff are making up for it a little | 00:56 |
| frals | worst case get to sweden, stockholm and then a boat over.. which would take a while thou :p | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | according to him, during the trip, people from all over the world were meeting up | 00:56 |
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| CosmoHill | thiago_home: i take it he doesn't have to take the hire car back | 00:56 |
| thiago_home | "so, where were you stuck?" | 00:56 |
| lcuk | yeah thiago_home its effected lots | 00:57 |
| lcuk | now if we would just pay the ransom to iceland all this would stop | 00:57 |
| thiago_home | :-) | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | you already did | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | You sent them your cash and they sent back ash | 00:57 |
| thiago_home | Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland are paying 444 mill. | 00:57 |
| thiago_home | (no, not kidding) | 00:57 |
| lcuk | TO ICELAND? | 00:58 |
| thiago_home | yes | 00:58 |
| lcuk | -caps | 00:58 |
| lcuk | what for? | 00:58 |
| ShadowJK | "plz to stop the ash kthx" | 00:58 |
| CosmoHill | UK airspace opened today | 00:58 |
| lcuk | "confirmed delivery of 10000 tonnes of sulphur | 00:58 |
| lcuk | bit of it did | 00:59 |
| thiago_home | http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bc6d67c4-4c81-11df-8fe1-00144feab49a.html | 00:59 |
| thiago_home | this website says 1.775 bn €: http://www.rttnews.com/Content/AllEconomicNews.aspx?Id=1274373 | 00:59 |
| lcuk | ok for the original unrelated to volcano reason | 01:00 |
| thiago_home | yes, unrelated :-) | 01:01 |
| ShadowJK | but surely it's not a coincidence with the timing! | 01:02 |
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| lcuk | gentle reminder | 01:04 |
| thiago_home | DawnFoster: but I wouldn't count on Quim being available for the TSG tomorrow | 01:05 |
| DawnFoster | thiago_home: oh good point, I hadn't even thought about the TSG. | 01:06 |
| thiago_home | Valtteri was supposed to be here (in Oslo) tomorrow, but we cancelled the f2f and switched to videoconf. So he should be at his usual spot. | 01:06 |
| DawnFoster | thiago_home: do you want to help with the TSG meeting if Quim isn't available? | 01:08 |
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| thiago_home | I'll be around and I'll help if you need me | 01:08 |
| DawnFoster | I can handle the meetbot / agenda, but not be able to handle questions on top of it. | 01:09 |
| DawnFoster | cool - I'll ping you on irc / email tomorrow. | 01:09 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 01:09 |
| DawnFoster | thanks | 01:09 |
| thiago_home | I'll be around one hour before the meeting and you walk me through what you need from me | 01:09 |
| thiago_home | no emails at that time -- /me avoids corporate email from home | 01:09 |
| DawnFoster | sounds good - I'll send you a msg about an hour before the meeting | 01:10 |
| thiago_home | ok | 01:10 |
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| CosmoHill | i went to a cloud computing seminar today | 01:29 |
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| chi-chi | hihi | 01:34 |
| CosmoHill | hoho | 01:34 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, anything interesting? | 01:36 |
| CosmoHill | a few interesting points but I don't agree with everything | 01:37 |
| lcuk | blah blah blah ash blah blah blah | 01:37 |
| lcuk | :D | 01:37 |
| CosmoHill | :o | 01:38 |
| lcuk | lol CosmoHill cloud still has its problems | 01:38 |
| CosmoHill | oh lol | 01:39 |
| CosmoHill | http://little-gamers.com/ | 01:39 |
| chi-chi | theres no GUI in meego still right? | 01:40 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 02:25 |
| DawnFoster | later CosmoHill | 02:26 |
| CosmoHill | i have project management in the morning | 02:26 |
| CosmoHill | >.< | 02:26 |
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| idra | http://www.google.com/governmentrequests/ | 03:35 |
| idra | oops sorry | 03:35 |
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| hugo_ | hi | 10:46 |
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| Stskeeps | hello | 10:48 |
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| Stskeeps | morning slaine | 11:51 |
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| slaine | Dear god its started already | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | what has? | 11:55 |
| slaine | I only sat down and I'm being told I've non scheduled work to do that's been promised to a customer | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 11:55 |
| slaine | who keeps making these promises is what I want to know | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | the things we do for money.. | 11:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:55 |
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| Tumi_ | slaine: happens almost every day to me but you get used to it =) | 12:06 |
| slaine | Tumi_: no you don't | 12:06 |
| Tumi_ | it's about planning the allocation.. | 12:07 |
| slaine | I could have my team working on scheduled roadmaps 20% of the time and still get screwed over by these guys | 12:07 |
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| Tumi_ | I'm used to plan time tables loose because I know there will be extra work, but if that was not expected, it sucks | 12:11 |
| Tumi_ | slaine: what are you working on anyway? | 12:12 |
| slaine | I work for a company that sells software into hospitals, "Patient Infotainment" for the marketoid term. Touchscreen LCD PC that's used for iptv, Vod, Aod, internet, patient medical records by hospital staff etc. | 12:14 |
| Tumi_ | nice! and you're now targetting meego as base platform? | 12:16 |
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| slaine | Tumi_: I'd like to, too many barriers to entry at the moment | 12:19 |
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| lcuk | slaine, principally patients cannot work the command line :D | 12:20 |
| slaine | lcuk, lol, yes, I can't get my touchscreen keyboard to show in 80x24 mode | 12:21 |
| Tumi_ | slaine: yep, could be that for a while, still.. | 12:22 |
| Tumi_ | but you're running own qt software? | 12:22 |
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| zc | hi | 12:32 |
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| zc | how to play meego? | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | you have to have some a bottle of vodka, a sauna and snow | 12:38 |
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| leinir | Stskeeps: i thougt that was Jocke? ;) | 12:39 |
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| deepa_ | i want to create a generic meego image for arm target | 13:38 |
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| deepa_ | do i require to use livecd or live usb option? | 13:38 |
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| deepa_ | i want to create the rootfs | 13:38 |
| slaine | deepa, I think there's a raw option too for a rootfs | 13:39 |
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| Stskeeps | deepa_: in newer mic2, there's a -f fs | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | which puts it a directory | 13:39 |
| slaine | perfect | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | that option was really needed :P | 13:39 |
| deepa_ | u mean to say --format=liveusb | 13:40 |
| deepa_ | ? | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | no, --format=fs | 13:41 |
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| deepa_ | ok | 13:41 |
| deepa_ | thanks | 13:41 |
| deepa_ | let me try | 13:41 |
| deepa_ | :) | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | you need to get git head of mic2 for that | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | am curious, what ARM version is the device you're trying to target? | 13:41 |
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| deepa_ | which config file I have to use to create image? | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | start with the arm-n900 one | 13:46 |
| deepa_ | am using this cmd sudo mic-image-creator --config=default.ks --format=fs --cache=mycache | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | remember -a armv5tel too | 13:48 |
| deepa_ | where can I get .ks file? | 13:48 |
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| Stskeeps | repo.meego.com | 13:48 |
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| deepa_ | any specific path in repo.meego | 13:58 |
| deepa_ | ? | 13:58 |
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| Stskeeps | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/n900/images/ | 13:59 |
| deepa_ | am looking for.ks file | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | it's there | 14:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:01 |
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| Termana | yello | 14:08 |
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| deepa_ | when am tryingto create image with this options | 14:18 |
| deepa_ | udo mic-image-creator --config=arm-n900.ks --format=fs --cache=mycache | 14:18 |
| deepa_ | it says image format fs not supported | 14:18 |
| lbt | try format=loop | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | deepa_: as i said, you need to grab the git release version | 14:19 |
| deepa_ | i didn't get you | 14:20 |
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| Stskeeps | you need to get the latest version from the development tree of image creator | 14:22 |
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| ber | I am trying to run qemu-system-arm -M n900 with meego_qemu_nand.img and get qemu: hardware error: onenand_reset: Loading the BootRAM failed. Any hints? Is there a place I should check or report this? | 15:51 |
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| slaine | hmmm, interesting | 16:08 |
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| slaine | will iPad be an IVI killer | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't want to use a ipad interface in the car | 16:08 |
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| slaine | for passengers | 16:09 |
| lcuk | a round device covering the centre of steering wheel would be neat | 16:09 |
| slaine | article on cars.com about it | 16:09 |
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| lcuk | IVI needs oil slick and rocket launcher deployment functionality | 16:10 |
| slaine | http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/chi-ipad-car-dvd-system-042010,0,7902449,print.story | 16:10 |
| lcuk | is there a qt interface for those components? | 16:10 |
| slaine | not quiet ivi | 16:10 |
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| X-Fade | lcuk: Round lcd: http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/hardware/circular-lcd-debuts | 16:11 |
| X-Fade | Could fit nicely ;) | 16:12 |
| lcuk | hahah X-Fade | 16:13 |
| lcuk | neato | 16:13 |
| lcuk | ive done some work on a circular ui :) | 16:13 |
| X-Fade | Could be quite cool for IVI though. | 16:14 |
| lcuk | and dynamic rotation works better with circles (tho a cluster of them in a rectangular window works nicer) | 16:14 |
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| lcuk | hi spyro \o | 16:16 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, that circular lcd ui - it has "tmo" in it :D | 16:17 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: tmd ;) | 16:18 |
| * lcuk gets eyes tested | 16:18 | |
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| jusliukk | there seem to be some community SIGs appearing in meego.com, should there be an index page for them on the site, perhaps? | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | SIGs? | 16:20 |
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| jusliukk | special interest groups | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | url? | 16:20 |
| jusliukk | http://wiki.meego.com/Security_interest_group | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | wiki.meego.com usually i guess | 16:21 |
| Terwiz | Okay, I can't install the qt-demos on chrooted meego on my N900. Just says packages not available. Should I configure some extra repository, or what? | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | yum search demos ? | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | ah, no | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | look at /etc/yum.repos.d | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | it says ia32 there instead of arm | 16:24 |
| Terwiz | Yes it does | 16:25 |
| Terwiz | I tried changing trunk/repo/ia32 to n900/repo/arm, but that didn't help | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | ah, no, change to trunk/repo/arm | 16:26 |
| Terwiz | Ok, I'll try that | 16:27 |
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| slaine | jusliukk: That's the Secuity group | 16:31 |
| slaine | not special interest group | 16:31 |
| slaine | though we should probably have something like that | 16:31 |
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| jusliukk | slaine, someone had put up the SIG wiki page so I added my name to the interested-parties list :) | 16:33 |
| jusliukk | didn't know how official it was | 16:33 |
| jusliukk | afaik there were no maemo6 security developers on that list | 16:33 |
| slaine | I guess they're not interested | 16:33 |
| slaine | :) | 16:33 |
| jusliukk | :) | 16:33 |
| jusliukk | good to see the community is, though | 16:34 |
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| Terwiz | Well, changing the repos to arm, didn't help either. | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | resolv.conf set right? | 16:42 |
| Terwiz | Yes, server names are found ok | 16:42 |
| Terwiz | Oh, my bad. I thought I had checked that. | 16:43 |
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| mesone | hello | 16:51 |
| ber | No one running meego_qemu_nand.img in qemu? | 16:52 |
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| Terwiz | Yeah, name resolving is not functioning in my meego. Have to take a deeper look tomorrow. Thanks for the help anyway! | 17:08 |
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| mwichmann | seems like at the moment everybody is rushing to declare ipad an "everything" killer | 18:09 |
| mwichmann | even with all the work people have put into appropriate medical devices, | 18:09 |
| Bostik | could we declare it a whale killer then? | 18:09 |
| mwichmann | now the press think ipad will sweep all that away | 18:10 |
| mwichmann | it probably kills baby seals, too, right :) | 18:10 |
| Bostik | I personally think that ipad is a nice opening for low-cost, simpler (and more open) ebook readers that can do something more than just connect to a single gateway and accept payment | 18:10 |
| Bostik | competition is a good thing | 18:11 |
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| lcuk | dead tree books have one strong positive side vs all other electronic readers | 18:13 |
| lcuk | you dont fry yourself if you drop book in bath | 18:13 |
| Bostik | convenience, relative weight, no need for batteries, ... | 18:14 |
| lcuk | yeah but needing a pickup truck for your entire library is the downside | 18:14 |
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| * lcuk does see some benefits of electronics ;) | 18:14 | |
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| Bostik | books and music are different beasts in that regard, really | 18:14 |
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| Bostik | with music, you *want* to have as much with you as possible | 18:15 |
| lcuk | really? | 18:15 |
| Bostik | with books, you really need only a couple at a time | 18:15 |
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| Bostik | well... how often do you jump from playlist to another? how often do you find yourself looking for something different? | 18:16 |
| lcuk | i rarely listen to music | 18:16 |
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| lcuk | i prefer to make my own tune | 18:16 |
| lcuk | :) | 18:16 |
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| Bostik | ah, a creative spirit with musical talents | 18:17 |
| lcuk | nope - creative spirit who finds music distracting | 18:17 |
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| slaine | I'd be more like Bostik | 18:33 |
| slaine | I have music on the majority of the day | 18:33 |
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| lcuk | slaine, theres a few times when i have music but mostly prefer to concentrate | 18:35 |
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| Khertan | it s also a matter of music style | 18:50 |
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| lcuk | what music should a meego advert have | 18:51 |
| Khertan | something like Amon Amarth - Guardians of Asgaard help a lot to concentrate at office | 18:51 |
| slaine | Khertan: I don't think so | 18:51 |
| slaine | It's about what YOU like | 18:51 |
| Khertan | as it s avoid other to stay in your desktop | 18:51 |
| Khertan | :) | 18:51 |
| slaine | lol | 18:51 |
| Khertan | and prevents people to talk you | 18:52 |
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| slaine | dneary: good evening sir | 18:52 |
| slaine | will you remember to be around tonight ? | 18:53 |
| dneary | hi | 18:53 |
| dneary | I just asked a few minutes ago (in limbo) | 18:53 |
| dneary | in how many hours is the meeting? | 18:53 |
| dneary | slaine, I'm stranded in SFO | 18:53 |
| slaine | dneary: oh no, disaster | 18:53 |
| slaine | ash cloud ? | 18:54 |
| lcuk | Meego music should be : Leftfield : Open up! | 18:54 |
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| slaine | lcuk, lmao | 18:54 |
| dneary | Yeah | 18:55 |
| lcuk | a suggestions thread would be good on forum | 18:55 |
| dneary | Catashtrophy | 18:55 |
| slaine | dneary, 19:00 UTC | 18:55 |
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| dneary | slaine, I don't know this time zone | 18:55 |
| dneary | How many hours from now? | 18:55 |
| dneary | 2? | 18:55 |
| dneary | or 1? | 18:55 |
| slaine | 3 | 18:55 |
| dneary | Ah | 18:55 |
| slaine | 5pm here | 18:55 |
| dneary | That doesn't sound right... | 18:55 |
| slaine | 19:00 UTC == 20:00 IST | 18:55 |
| DawnFoster | dneary - bummer to hear that your stranded | 18:56 |
| dneary | DawnFoster, Yeah | 18:56 |
| DawnFoster | the TSG is at noon San Francisco time (3 hours) | 18:56 |
| dneary | If I'd acted faster I could've come up to Portland to visit Intel for a few days | 18:56 |
| dneary | OK, thanks | 18:56 |
| DawnFoster | I heard that Quim got out but that Ronan was maybe still stuck there? | 18:56 |
| dneary | I plan to attend | 18:56 |
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| slaine | coolage | 18:56 |
| dneary | DawnFoster, I saw them on Sunday, but no news since | 18:57 |
| DawnFoster | cool. Hopefully, you can get a flight back home soon | 18:57 |
| dneary | Saturday | 18:57 |
| slaine | Nick is still trapped abroad too | 18:57 |
| slaine | as is one of my support guys | 18:57 |
| Jartza | hi | 18:57 |
| dneary | I don't have a big corporate account to wave at people, I just needed to rebook my flight | 18:57 |
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| lcuk | :( dneary | 18:59 |
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| lcuk | twitted about the musical score for the adverts http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/12584002685 | 19:05 |
| lcuk | retweet or suggest your own :P | 19:05 |
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| dneary | Thanks lcuk | 19:08 |
| lcuk | how long till you are back dneary | 19:09 |
| dneary | I get home on Sunday | 19:09 |
| lcuk | jeez as you say knowing that you couldv planned around it - its the same story for lots of folks | 19:10 |
| DawnFoster | lcuck: you don't want my suggestions - I have terrible taste in music :) | 19:10 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, everybody has a voice! | 19:10 |
| lcuk | :D isnt that one of the key things of meego, good bad indifferent - speak up and get involved | 19:11 |
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| lcuk | but having said that, if your music is that bad, perhaps you should stay quiet :p :D | 19:11 |
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| DawnFoster | lcuk: my music library is mostly a combination of foul mouthed heavy metal and 80's pop music - it's pretty embarrassing :) | 19:12 |
| lcuk | heh | 19:13 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, at least you have hair long enough to rock out with :D | 19:13 |
| lcuk | can you do the spinny round your head thing? (when very drunk obviously) | 19:14 |
| DawnFoster | I'm going to stop answering questions now to avoid incriminating myself :P | 19:14 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: if I wasn't married ...... | 19:14 |
| lcuk | haha | 19:14 |
| DawnFoster | you guys are funny | 19:14 |
| slaine | That's pretty much my musical collection too | 19:14 |
| * slaine is listening to Static-X atm and Talking Heads 10 mins ago | 19:15 | |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, pick anybody in the audience and the music collections will be similar | 19:15 |
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| DawnFoster | slaine: how funny, I have several static-x cds. I didn't think anyone else listened to them | 19:15 |
| lcuk | the bikers riding round on harleys might have cheesy pop on too | 19:15 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: saw them a few years ago supporting Korn. They blew korn away. So ended up getting most of their stuff since | 19:16 |
| lcuk | whenever i go to concerts its amusing to look around at the sheer range of people music touches | 19:17 |
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| lbt | any TSG news? | 19:17 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: the TSG should be in 2.75 hours | 19:17 |
| lbt | ta... | 19:17 |
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| * thiago_home confirms Valtteri is at home, not lost somewhere in the world | 19:18 | |
| DawnFoster | no big news - the agenda is posted | 19:18 |
| thiago_home | however, his DSL connection was quite bad this morning | 19:18 |
| lbt | thoughts on the "Repository Working Group - next steps" email anyone? | 19:18 |
| lbt | we need a new name for it ... | 19:18 |
| thiago_home | Packages Working Group | 19:18 |
| lbt | "Downloads Group" | 19:18 |
| * lbt favours calling it "Surrounds" | 19:19 | |
| lbt | since it covers garage, Extras and something like Universe | 19:19 |
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| slaine | lbt, was thinking about that earlier | 19:19 |
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| slaine | we're probably looking at something more akin to Fedora's SIG's and community driven spins | 19:20 |
| lbt | not spins, no | 19:20 |
| lbt | AFAIUI spins are almost distros in their own right? | 19:20 |
| lbt | with images ? | 19:20 |
| slaine | kind of. They're the same distro with different packages | 19:21 |
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| lbt | I don't think that's in the scope for this group. | 19:21 |
| slaine | Fedora ships with Gnome by default. But there's an Xfce spin of Fedora, a KDE spin of fedora etc. | 19:21 |
| slaine | I don't think the scope of what we're hoping is going to happen though | 19:22 |
| slaine | we'll find out later perhaps | 19:22 |
| lcuk | arent spins called remixes? | 19:22 |
| thiago_home | MeeGo will not ship any of those | 19:22 |
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| lbt | ah, now, the group *would* support Xfce packages in an area | 19:22 |
| lcuk | or has there been a new email ive missed | 19:22 |
| lbt | thiago_home: indeed - so the community needs somewhere to jointly manage them | 19:22 |
| slaine | No, this was just my thoughts on it | 19:22 |
| lbt | rather than fragmenting into non-meego repos | 19:23 |
| thiago_home | wait, that was my handset/touch mindset at play | 19:23 |
| slaine | exactly | 19:23 |
| thiago_home | I keep forgetting the netbooks | 19:23 |
| lbt | thiago_home: specifics don't matter | 19:23 |
| thiago_home | they do | 19:23 |
| slaine | it's how to manage the variations on the MeeGo theme's that's the problem | 19:23 |
| lbt | <sigh> | 19:23 |
| thiago_home | applications not suited for a particular form-factor shouldn't be included | 19:23 |
| lbt | no, they don't | 19:24 |
| lbt | the specifics of Xfce doesn't matter. It is an example application that the community may choose to support | 19:24 |
| lbt | it may be fvwm-touch | 19:24 |
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| thiago_home | right | 19:24 |
| lbt | the point is there *will* be packages not in MeeGo :) | 19:25 |
| slaine | thiago_home: agreed, but the point of an open project is that if someone wants open office on their mobile phone, and there's packages, then they should be allowed to run with it. If others of like minds all pitch in, they could have a pre-rolled spin that does what they want | 19:25 |
| thiago_home | right | 19:25 |
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| lbt | and we want to provide a professional place to manage them ... | 19:25 |
| lbt | Surrounds is that place | 19:25 |
| lbt | some packages are part of a greater suite | 19:25 |
| slaine | It doesn't mean that Nokia will be shipping open office on the n900 image though | 19:25 |
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| lbt | eg gtk-touch may eventually not be part of MeeGo.... but it could be community supported in Surrounds | 19:26 |
| slaine | lbt, so I don't think the idea of the spins and special interest groups is that far from the core of what the RWG was about | 19:26 |
| lbt | the maemo compatibility libraries may live in Surrounds | 19:26 |
| thiago_home | how about making this separation explicit | 19:27 |
| lbt | slaine: I think spins would be out of scope but would be projects managed by other groups according to the policy set for Surrounds | 19:27 |
| thiago_home | core packages, form-factor-specific packages, official Extras and "whatever else" ? | 19:27 |
| lbt | spins would be Surrounds compliant :) | 19:27 |
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| lbt | thiago_home: pretty much | 19:27 |
| slaine | lbt, yes, but at the last meeting the TSG didn't see the need for a RWG at all | 19:27 |
| lbt | thiago_home: essentialy !Core | 19:28 |
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| lbt | the last meeting? or the one where it was proposed | 19:28 |
| slaine | wasn't that the last one ? | 19:28 |
| lbt | no, last but 2 | 19:28 |
| slaine | Oh no, I missed the last one due to illness | 19:28 |
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| lbt | the comments asked for ml discussion | 19:29 |
| lbt | and I didn't initiate any :( | 19:29 |
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| slaine | yeah, but they had their own ideas on how to operate and manage the garage/extras repo and didn't seem to see the need for a RWG. Like I said, they where open to discussing further, but my impression was more that they'd be open to discussing how the community could participate in their idea of a garage/extras setup | 19:30 |
| slaine | icbw though, but that was what I read into it | 19:30 |
| lbt | slaine: I know. I think we need some community commentary on what community means. | 19:31 |
| DawnFoster | I think there is a miscommunication about what a "working group" should be. | 19:31 |
| lbt | as a redneck ski-instructor says "that ain't it" | 19:31 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: possibly | 19:31 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: not worried about the WG moniker | 19:31 |
| DawnFoster | for example, localization working group was turned down because it was a core part of the project. | 19:32 |
| slaine | One of the questions I'd like to ask tonight is, What in the TSG's understanding, is the scope of the meego communities involvement. | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | as you can see, still tons of community involvement | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | but it sits in the project infrastructure, not as a working group | 19:32 |
| lbt | yeah, but DawnFoster, a core part of a community project with no open or community involvment ? | 19:32 |
| slaine | There is open community involvement lbt | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | there is a ton of community involvement in localization | 19:32 |
| lbt | the point is that the group should exist... | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | all of the translations are being done by the community | 19:33 |
| slaine | it's just not holistic at the moment. | 19:33 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: but, should it be part of the core project, maybe? | 19:33 |
| DawnFoster | not something separate. | 19:33 |
| DawnFoster | look at how working groups have been defined: verticals and community. | 19:33 |
| lbt | well, I made the argument that it isn't part of BAU for publishing a distro | 19:33 |
| lbt | it is part of the surrounding ecosystem | 19:34 |
| DawnFoster | almost everything else sits in the project | 19:34 |
| lbt | OTOH it is essential for survival | 19:34 |
| lbt | and that is core :) | 19:34 |
| DawnFoster | the issue is that they are still defining the project structure | 19:34 |
| lbt | nail... head | 19:34 |
| lbt | "they" | 19:34 |
| lbt | "they are defining" | 19:34 |
| DawnFoster | the TSG | 19:34 |
| lbt | they | 19:34 |
| DawnFoster | exactly who should be defining it | 19:34 |
| lbt | on the mailing list? | 19:34 |
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| lbt | listening? | 19:34 |
| lbt | so, this proposal is food for their thought. | 19:35 |
| lbt | Sadly it is a one-way conversation at the moment | 19:35 |
| DawnFoster | I'm not going to argue timelines here. We've been clear that some things are happening between Intel / Nokia / LF and not everything is 100% transparent now. | 19:35 |
| DawnFoster | this is a process. | 19:35 |
| lbt | I know. I'm clearly being constructive though :) | 19:36 |
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| lbt | although perhaps a tad frustrated from time to time | 19:36 |
| DawnFoster | even the Linux kernel started with Linus pulling together a first chunk of code without any community involvement. | 19:36 |
| lbt | sorry | 19:36 |
| lbt | these passionate rants are for people (like you) to distil and propogate | 19:37 |
| DawnFoster | hammering on us for not being completely open yet, when all of our communications have explained our process for getting everything out in the open isn't constructive | 19:37 |
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| DawnFoster | Every time I talk to Imad, I remind him of the things the community is waiting on. | 19:37 |
| lbt | *nod* | 19:37 |
| lcuk | is anyone openly trying to get a graphical qt onto the meego base openly | 19:38 |
| DawnFoster | hammering on us constantly sucks up our time when we could be focused on getting things moving | 19:38 |
| lcuk | as in sat with base and qt and trying to gel them together? | 19:38 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: which is why it was 3 weeks from proposal to followup | 19:38 |
| lbt | 3 weeks | 19:38 |
| lbt | not constant hammering | 19:38 |
| lbt | be fair | 19:38 |
| DawnFoster | OK, but you won't get an answer until the project structure is defined | 19:39 |
| tripzero | lcuk, you mean take the base image and run something qt on top? | 19:39 |
| DawnFoster | unfortunately, I can't speed up that process. | 19:39 |
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| lbt | agreed. But this is key and we are worried that we'll get "you didn't follow up to the proposal so we decided" | 19:40 |
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| DawnFoster | trust me when I say that I am just as frustrated by this process as everyone else. | 19:40 |
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| lbt | given the lack of (much) feedback all we can do is keep asking. | 19:40 |
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| lbt | bear in mind that this proposal covers the majority of community development | 19:41 |
| DawnFoster | I can tell you that I keep bugging people inside to get these things moving, and I've been following up with Bob to see if we can get some feedback out to you. | 19:41 |
| lbt | it got several minutes of response 3 weeks ago from the TSG | 19:41 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, ahem, "Throw it over the wall" :D | 19:41 |
| lbt | and nothing (from them since) | 19:41 |
| lbt | I emailed Bob yesterday in the thread | 19:42 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: there are so many things that people are trying to sort out right now. We just can't get to everything immediately | 19:42 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: Why do you have to do it all though. We're here to help | 19:42 |
| DawnFoster | You guys have to be a little patient with us. | 19:42 |
| DawnFoster | I know it sucks | 19:42 |
| slaine | That's what a community project is for, leveraging a community | 19:43 |
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| DawnFoster | however, when you are taking 2 projects, merging them together and re-architecting an entire system - you need to focus | 19:43 |
| DawnFoster | I'm not going to argue about the timelines or the process. | 19:43 |
| slaine | We want to be leveraged, we're not being leveraged, we're being told we could be leveraged 'cause it's open. The only community leverage that's happening at all seems to the the localisation stuff | 19:44 |
| lcuk | slaine, you are just a sadist | 19:44 |
| DawnFoster | It was decided before I joined, it has been communication, and we need to work with what we have | 19:44 |
| slaine | :nod: | 19:44 |
| tripzero | hrm | 19:45 |
| DawnFoster | we have been clear that the next release will be in May - until then - things are going to be difficult | 19:45 |
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| slaine | I think we should probably save all this for the TSG to be honest | 19:45 |
| tripzero | probably | 19:45 |
| slaine | DawnFoster knows how we feel | 19:45 |
| lcuk | ok, is there an rpg or whatever kind of packaging weapon it needs for qt on the meego base? | 19:46 |
| lcuk | i want to play with x11+qt | 19:46 |
| lcuk | i dont care if its out of date | 19:46 |
| lcuk | i just want to run hello world thats not a terminal app | 19:46 |
| tripzero | yum install at4-devel? | 19:46 |
| thiago_home | if you have the Qt package, install its demos and examples | 19:47 |
| tripzero | err.. qt4-devel? | 19:47 |
| lcuk | ok, so thats available now on the meego base? | 19:47 |
| thiago_home | there's an app called qtdemo | 19:47 |
| lcuk | and will work on the n900 one? | 19:47 |
| * tripzero has no clue | 19:47 | |
| * lcuk is asking thiago_home | 19:47 | |
| thiago_home | I don't know the packages, sorry | 19:47 |
| thiago_home | I never use Qt from packages, from any distro | 19:47 |
| glinpus | you can search your yum repos... | 19:47 |
| thiago_home | not even on the N900 | 19:47 |
| lcuk | i nearly pasted dogfood | 19:48 |
| lcuk | 100 times | 19:48 |
| lcuk | why dont you try what your developers will be using? | 19:48 |
| tripzero | not everyone has a compile farm to compile qt on everything like thiago_home ;) | 19:48 |
| lbt | so, does anyone like "Surrounds" :) | 19:48 |
| slaine | I'd love some Surrounds speakers :) | 19:49 |
| slaine | right, commute time | 19:49 |
| lbt | <cynical>we may as well bikeshed</cynical> | 19:49 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: not my job to try that actually :-) | 19:49 |
| thiago_home | we have people who make packages | 19:49 |
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| slaine | I'll catch you all at the meeting later | 19:49 |
| thiago_home | my job is to make bugs | 19:49 |
| lcuk | thiago_home !!! | 19:49 |
| thiago_home | oops, I shouldn't have said that | 19:49 |
| thiago_home | :-P | 19:50 |
| tripzero | lol | 19:50 |
| lcuk | bug #1 - my downstream developers cant do F.A. | 19:50 |
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| * thiago_home made his first Qt 4.8 commit today | 19:50 | |
| tripzero | what a negative channel this morning... | 19:50 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: anyway, another reason is that any packages from anyone are, by definition, old for me | 19:51 |
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| thiago_home | aside from when we test the packages we're making, that is (and that's not my job, I haven't been in Black Team in a year) | 19:51 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, in a completely open environment i should be on the same version as you | 19:51 |
| lcuk | "old" would not exist | 19:51 |
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| thiago_home | unless you keep building from Git, you won't be as new | 19:51 |
| lcuk | of course | 19:52 |
| lcuk | but if you lose touch with what people on the ground are doing its bad | 19:52 |
| thiago_home | I know | 19:52 |
| thiago_home | long-standing problem | 19:52 |
| lcuk | and, i am totally aware of exactly the same problem with pr1.2 in fremantle.. | 19:52 |
| thiago_home | for example, none of the Qt developers actually run "make install" | 19:53 |
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| thiago_home | Qt 4.6.2 in PR 1.2 is old because we froze it in Week 6 | 19:53 |
| thiago_home | we're in Week 16 | 19:53 |
| lbt | thiago_home: isn't that partly because of the seperation of "developing" and "packaging" | 19:53 |
| lcuk | yeah i know | 19:53 |
| lcuk | maemo.org repository maintainers have actually come upwith a really novel system | 19:53 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: sorry, but what is "that" in that context? | 19:54 |
| lcuk | the autobuilder creates backwards compatible packages | 19:54 |
| lcuk | its amazing to see | 19:54 |
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| lcuk | "that" ? whih line | 19:54 |
| thiago_home | oops | 19:55 |
| lbt | ah | 19:55 |
| thiago_home | lbt: that was for you | 19:55 |
| thiago_home | 18:53 < lbt> thiago_home: isn't that partly because of the seperation of "developing" and "packaging" | 19:55 |
| lcuk | ahh | 19:55 |
| lbt | no-one runs make install | 19:55 |
| lcuk | i used to on my 810!" | 19:55 |
| lcuk | since i couldnt package :D | 19:55 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: that's a historic reason, actually | 19:55 |
| thiago_home | Qt 3 couldn't make install | 19:55 |
| lbt | the developers throw it over the wall to the packagers | 19:55 |
| thiago_home | Qt 4 can, but the culture is that you don't | 19:56 |
| lcuk | ok thiago_home but thats bikeshedding | 19:56 |
| thiago_home | building with -prefix $PWD is the norm | 19:56 |
| lcuk | most people dont build qt core | 19:56 |
| * lbt suggests it's not finished until it's in a pkg | 19:56 | |
| thiago_home | our packages are developers | 19:56 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, historical situation for any platform | 19:56 |
| thiago_home | well, the Symbian, Maemo, Mac and Windows packages at least | 19:57 |
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| thiago_home | the ones for Linux distributions not so, but each distro does it their own way | 19:57 |
| lbt | Qt is heavily multi-pkged though... so that's quite different I guess | 19:57 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 19:57 |
| thiago_home | you'd be surprised if you knew what the OpenSUSE people did | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | I was | 19:58 |
| lcuk | so, whilst it may be old | 19:58 |
| lcuk | are there working packages | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | yes | 19:58 |
| lcuk | why arent they part of the base then | 19:58 |
| lcuk | so people dont have to mess | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | meego? they should be there | 19:58 |
| lcuk | i thought it was just a console? | 19:58 |
| tripzero | lcuk, did you look? | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | they're probably not in the image you got | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | but the packages are in the repo | 19:58 |
| thiago_home | it was a 4.6.1 I think | 19:59 |
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| tripzero | 4.6.2 prolly | 19:59 |
| lcuk | ok, any reason why its not in the image | 19:59 |
| lcuk | whichever version | 19:59 |
| thiago_home | no, I think it was 4.6.1 | 19:59 |
| lcuk | 4.6.X | 19:59 |
| lcuk | 4.0.X | 19:59 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: I don't know | 19:59 |
| lcuk | it doesnt matter | 19:59 |
| thiago_home | I guess it's because it's not in use yet by any app | 19:59 |
| thiago_home | I mean, xterm ... | 19:59 |
| lcuk | :) | 20:00 |
| thiago_home | Qt 4.0 is coming up on its 5 year anniversary | 20:00 |
| thiago_home | this June | 20:00 |
| lcuk | i couldnt download from the repo because my wifi network wont connect | 20:00 |
| lcuk | and i dont know console stuff | 20:01 |
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| lcuk | hence me asking about it being in the default | 20:01 |
| lcuk | cool - so its finally properly feature complete! :D | 20:01 |
| thiago_home | I don't know | 20:01 |
| * lcuk worked on a 25 year old app! | 20:01 | |
| thiago_home | lcuk: we keep adding features... | 20:01 |
| thiago_home | I think we'll have a 4.10 even | 20:02 |
| lcuk | adding features is nice - i spent last year building liqbase to do the same | 20:02 |
| lcuk | but there has to be an ABI freeze sometime | 20:02 |
| lcuk | or API freeze or whatever it is | 20:03 |
| thiago_home | yes, it's "feature freeze" | 20:03 |
| lcuk | pr1.2 is in that state now :) | 20:03 |
| thiago_home | Qt goes through "feature freeze", "message freeze", "soft API freeze" and "API freeze" | 20:03 |
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| tripzero | it shouldn't be surprising that a develepment image is incomplete | 20:03 |
| lcuk | so which version of qt is rock solid reliable and best to use to develop future stable apps for? | 20:03 |
| thiago_home | we're in "soft API freeze" now, with the 4.7 beta to be released, as soon as we get it to compile on Symbian | 20:03 |
| tripzero | latest stable qt is 4.6.2 | 20:04 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: 4.6.2 | 20:04 |
| lcuk | tripzero, no, it is surprising that a development image for a qt based distro is incomplete from its primary component | 20:04 |
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| lcuk | so i should not build against the baseline 4.0 api? | 20:04 |
| lcuk | or have all the basic things changed drastically? | 20:04 |
| thiago_home | 4.0 API? no no | 20:04 |
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| thiago_home | 10 times no | 20:05 |
| tripzero | lcuk, you've got to start somewhere. It's not even considered alpha. | 20:05 |
| lcuk | why not? isnt there only realistically 1 way to create a button or textbox | 20:05 |
| thiago_home | for one thing, we consider that Qt4 was really born with 4.2 | 20:05 |
| lcuk | QPainter.* seems pretty complete | 20:05 |
| lcuk | i was using the 3.X docs to learn from | 20:05 |
| lcuk | i think | 20:05 |
| thiago_home | if you want to work with Qt, the current stable or the previous one are the only tolerated | 20:05 |
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| lcuk | nahhh every api has its roots somewhere | 20:06 |
| thiago_home | if you ask about 4.4 or earlier in a Qt IRC channel, you'll be told to upgrade | 20:06 |
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| lcuk | for 99% of things compatability is retained | 20:06 |
| tripzero | it's like pulling qt 4.8 from git and complaining that it doesn't have the feature you want in it | 20:06 |
| lcuk | its only if you go down a bad path | 20:06 |
| thiago_home | Qt roots lie in Håvard Nord's master thesis, published in 1993 | 20:06 |
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| thiago_home | his thesis had QObject, signals and slots, QWidget, QPainter | 20:06 |
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| lcuk | yeah | 20:07 |
| lcuk | so if i use those i cant go wrong | 20:07 |
| thiago_home | somewhat | 20:07 |
| thiago_home | if you want fancy graphics, you want QGraphicsView and its supporting classes, not Qwidget | 20:07 |
| lcuk | but if i start going for extreme dui stuff and specific methods on newly formed objects im screwed | 20:07 |
| lcuk | understoof | 20:07 |
| thiago_home | Qt has a strong API compatibility promise | 20:08 |
| thiago_home | if you use anything in 4.6, it should be good | 20:08 |
| lcuk | then theres no problem with me thinking against a simpler api | 20:08 |
| lcuk | less methods == less learning == less problems | 20:08 |
| thiago_home | no | 20:08 |
| lcuk | lego brick syndrome | 20:08 |
| lcuk | i can build anything with baseline square bricks | 20:09 |
| lcuk | but im screwed if everything i do requires a red spaceman | 20:09 |
| lcuk | those damn things are rare | 20:09 |
| * thiago_home is now lost in the lego analogy | 20:10 | |
| lcuk | :D | 20:10 |
| lcuk | (i wanted a red spaceman when i was a kid) | 20:10 |
| thiago_home | time for shower anyway | 20:10 |
| frals | no worries thiago_home we all get lost when lcuk starts with his analogies | 20:10 |
| lcuk | ;) | 20:11 |
| lcuk | now, how can i get meego base + qt without networking other than a flashable image | 20:11 |
| lcuk | which was my original thing | 20:11 |
| thiago_home | lcuk should have been in the meeting I was this morning, with Valtteri | 20:11 |
| thiago_home | my boss's boss came up with several analogies | 20:11 |
| lcuk | id rather he came up with some images including qt | 20:12 |
| thiago_home | from "charging phasers" to "chicken and the pig" | 20:12 |
| lbt | bbq ? | 20:12 |
| thiago_home | breakfast | 20:12 |
| lbt | phased chicken | 20:12 |
| thiago_home | no | 20:13 |
| thiago_home | it's the chicken's and the pig's contribution to breakfast | 20:13 |
| lbt | nb != fazed chicken.... altogether different | 20:13 |
| lbt | yeah :) | 20:13 |
| * lbt feels like a pig | 20:13 | |
| thiago_home | we were talking about how much we can contribute to MeeGo | 20:13 |
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| thiago_home | and talking about pig, I said I was going for a shower, so cya | 20:14 |
| lbt | l8r | 20:14 |
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| CosmoHill | hey | 20:27 |
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| mwichmann | DawnFoster: how bad is it? does it extend as far as John Cooper Clarke? | 20:42 |
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| * TSCHAKee loves John Cooper Clarke | 20:43 | |
| DawnFoster | mwichmann: not yet, but I'm going to have to check him out :) | 20:44 |
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| mwichmann | enjoy | 20:44 |
| DawnFoster | my music collection contains a whole category that the boyfriend has dubbed "only suitable for car chase movies" and not suitable for playing while we make dinner :) | 20:45 |
| CosmoHill | lol | 20:45 |
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| mwichmann | I've been known to make dinner with tuxedomoon playing (admittedly 20-some years ago) | 20:46 |
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| DawnFoster | static-x, motograter, godsmack and disturbed all fall into that category | 20:46 |
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| RST38h | ehlo, all | 20:50 |
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| CosmoHill | hi | 20:51 |
| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: oo static-x, I've not listen to them in a while | 20:51 |
| DawnFoster | hey CosmoHill | 20:52 |
| lcuk | which static-x track would a new listener tollerate? | 20:52 |
| lcuk | push it, dirthouse or something else? | 20:52 |
| CosmoHill | depends on their preference and music history | 20:52 |
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| CosmoHill | but then I've just shown a UK techno mix to a 50+ year old french guy | 20:53 |
| CosmoHill | and he liked it | 20:53 |
| lcuk | oh my, the lead guitarist appears to have something growing out from his head! | 20:53 |
| lcuk | :D | 20:53 |
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| * CosmoHill almost lent onto his camera :o | 20:53 | |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: Shadow Zone might be a good starter track? | 20:53 |
| CosmoHill | i think that was what I had | 20:54 |
| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: that was on need for speed IIRC | 20:54 |
| lcuk | youtube has a piano cover! | 20:54 |
| lcuk | and misheard lyrics | 20:54 |
| TSCHAKee | ew, all these atom based MIDs that I'm finding suuck | 20:54 |
| CosmoHill | i think the london orcaster did a cover of the klaxons | 20:54 |
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| lcuk | so on youtube i get silent videos - on dailymotion i audio but no video | 20:56 |
| CosmoHill | you need youmotion | 20:56 |
| CosmoHill | or dailytube | 20:57 |
| thiago_home | done anyone have news from qgil? | 20:57 |
| CosmoHill | has he been stranded cos of the ash? | 20:57 |
| CosmoHill | http://www.little-gamers.com/ | 20:57 |
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| * thiago_home sends an SMS | 20:58 | |
| CosmoHill | I'm not used to having my laptop plugged into my speakers | 20:58 |
| DawnFoster | thiago_home haven't heard anything from qgil. I'm assuming he still trying to get home | 20:58 |
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| lcuk | i heard (here?) he was on a flight to europe - so just in motion? | 20:59 |
| DawnFoster | rumor was that he made a flight from SFO -> Frankfurt yesterday | 20:59 |
| thiago_home | that was close to 24 hours ago | 20:59 |
| CosmoHill | if he is he'll get thiago_home's text when he gets off | 20:59 |
| DawnFoster | He should have made it to Frankfurt this morning. No updates since then | 21:01 |
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| CosmoHill | hi _Sky_ | 21:01 |
| _Sky_ | hi CosmoHill :) | 21:01 |
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| thiago_home | I hope he has my number in his address book | 21:02 |
| thiago_home | otherwise he'll have to guess that the +47 is me. I forgot to write my name. | 21:02 |
| CosmoHill | I confused a tech at uni cos he didn't know how I got his number | 21:02 |
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| thiago_home | I tend to ignore +358 calls outside of work hours | 21:05 |
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| CosmoHill | ? | 21:06 |
| thiago_home | Finland | 21:07 |
| CosmoHill | ah | 21:07 |
| CosmoHill | what is +47? | 21:07 |
| CosmoHill | / you | 21:07 |
| thiago_home | Norway | 21:07 |
| thiago_home | 44 = UK, 45 = Denmark, 46 = Sweden, 47 = Norway, 48 = no idea, 49 = Germany | 21:08 |
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| TSCHAKee | 48 = spain i think | 21:08 |
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| thiago_home | that's 34 | 21:08 |
| CosmoHill | if there is anything over than +44 I'll be suspicious | 21:09 |
| CosmoHill | other* | 21:09 |
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| haataja | hi V-PV! | 21:10 |
| V-PV | Hi, how is it going? | 21:11 |
| haataja | missed the TSG I think.. | 21:11 |
| V-PV | Ok, was it already? | 21:11 |
| CosmoHill | haataja: today's one? | 21:11 |
| Amfi | 48 Poland ;) | 21:11 |
| haataja | umm...or is it just in an hour? | 21:12 |
| V-PV | I expected it to be 22:00 (GTM+2) | 21:12 |
| haataja | got me there.. :) | 21:12 |
| thiago_home | V-PV: it's 20:00 at GMT+2 now | 21:12 |
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| thiago_home | and the meeting is 21:00 GMT+2 (19:00 UTC) | 21:12 |
| CosmoHill | so 22:00 UTC? | 21:12 |
| CosmoHill | no | 21:12 |
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| CosmoHill | 18:00 UTC? | 21:12 |
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| haataja | 19 UTC | 21:13 |
| CosmoHill | the meeting is in 2 hours? | 21:13 |
| thiago_home | no | 21:13 |
| thiago_home | 45 minutes | 21:13 |
| thiago_home | 47 | 21:13 |
| CosmoHill | damn time zones | 21:14 |
| CosmoHill | it's sometime in the future :) | 21:14 |
| V-PV | :-) | 21:14 |
| V-PV | So I did not miss a thing yet | 21:14 |
| thiago_home | no | 21:14 |
| haataja | V-PV, no - I think i did.. | 21:15 |
| haataja | or thought I did.. | 21:15 |
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| lcuk | \o/ win! | 21:23 |
| lcuk | tracy has ebayed me red legomen | 21:23 |
| frals | lol | 21:24 |
| CosmoHill | damn ebay | 21:24 |
| lcuk | and yellow ones and blue ones | 21:24 |
| * lcuk will glue em to top of monitor | 21:24 | |
| CosmoHill | to we mill about here drinking tea and chatting before we go into the meego and sit quietly? | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | meego igloo? | 21:25 |
| CosmoHill | like the seminar that made me an hour and a half late yesterday | 21:25 |
| CosmoHill | I read that as "I go loo" | 21:25 |
| lcuk | i forgot about meeting - has it started or is it cancelled or soon? | 21:26 |
| DawnFoster | 35 minutes | 21:26 |
| DawnFoster | I should say, the TSG starts in 35 minutes | 21:26 |
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| GAN900 | *meeting ;) | 21:28 |
| CosmoHill | 30 mins | 21:31 |
| * CosmoHill offers dough balls | 21:32 | |
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| thiago_home | Quim replied | 21:38 |
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| CosmoHill | yay | 21:38 |
| thiago_home | he's somewhere in Poland, on a bus from Frankfurt to Talinn | 21:38 |
| CosmoHill | but you texted someone else | 21:38 |
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| lcuk | "in... europe... need... technology... must... get.. back... to.. finlARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" | 21:39 |
| thiago_home | he should have just stayed in the SF area... we have half a dozen people stranded there, who are working out of the Redwood City office | 21:40 |
| thiago_home | there's another one in Mountain View too | 21:40 |
| lcuk | homing signal kicks in | 21:40 |
| frals | arent most airports open now anyway? | 21:42 |
| lcuk | yeah but once you are on the way and actually heading in the right direction | 21:42 |
| lcuk | do you want to stop and change plans again to delay in airport for however long? | 21:42 |
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| lbt | and airport open != getting a seat on a flight | 21:46 |
| lcuk | yeah | 21:47 |
| CosmoHill | Eurostar and P&O ferries are fully booked | 21:48 |
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| lcuk | CosmoHill, good job quim isnt coming to the uk then | 21:56 |
| lcuk | but likely tale everywhere | 21:56 |
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| CosmoHill | I'm sure europe to UK would have seats | 21:56 |
| lcuk | he doesnt need uk at all | 21:57 |
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| lbt | so is TSG in 3mins ? | 21:57 |
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| thiago_home | 5 | 21:57 |
| * thiago_home updates his clock | 21:58 | |
| thiago_home | 2 | 21:58 |
| thiago_home | wtf, why isn't plasma updating the clock | 21:58 |
| lbt | ntp is a wonderful thing | 21:58 |
| CosmoHill | wtf | 21:58 |
| CosmoHill | my server is 20 mins off | 21:59 |
| CosmoHill | Wed Apr 21 19:33:51 BST 2010 | 21:59 |
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| lbt | better than being off for 20 mins :) | 21:59 |
| slaine | better grab a cuppa | 21:59 |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 21:59 |
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| CosmoHill | I think i have a RPM NPT package somewhere | 22:00 |
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| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: good timing | 22:01 |
| * GeneralAntilles fires off an email about bugs.meego.com | 22:03 | |
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| lbt | there was a summit? | 22:04 |
| lbt | :D | 22:04 |
| CosmoHill | can we talk in #meego-meeting | 22:04 |
| lbt | yes | 22:05 |
| CosmoHill | :o | 22:05 |
| dneary | CosmoHill, no | 22:05 |
| lbt | On topic | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: yes, for once | 22:05 |
| lbt | dneary: yes | 22:05 |
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| dneary | lbt don't you need voice? | 22:05 |
| CosmoHill | [20:03] * DawnFoster sets mode -m #meego-meeting | 22:05 |
| dneary | oh | 22:05 |
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| DawnFoster | stay on topic, people :) | 22:05 |
| lbt | is there a summary from the collab ? | 22:05 |
| CosmoHill | will the video be available to download? | 22:06 |
| dneary | DawnFoster: do you think it'd be appropriate to ask the tsg about terminology? | 22:06 |
| DawnFoster | we need to stick to the agenda, so maybe not this time | 22:06 |
| dneary | I'm still confused about the various usages I've seen& heard of working group, project & team | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, not that I know of. | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary, I didn't manage to get an answer about that from anybody. | 22:07 |
| dneary | They seem to be 3 different things in people's minds, with different rules governing them | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary, in summary: I don't think anybody actually knows. | 22:07 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: has the agenda changed since this morning ? | 22:07 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: ta... makes it a bit hard | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, well, goodnews is that 90% of it was recorded. | 22:07 |
| thiago_home | dneary: what terminology are you confused about? | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | What the hell a Working Group actually is. | 22:08 |
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| thiago_home | we need a WGWG for that | 22:09 |
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| lbt | GeneralAntilles: I think qgil has given up on that - see recent RWG thread in -dev | 22:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, I maid the point to Quim that a large part of the negative reaction to the Repository Working Group discussion stems from the nebulous definition of the WGs. . . . | 22:09 |
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| * GeneralAntilles isn't caught up on the mailing lists. | 22:09 | |
| lbt | np | 22:09 |
| dneary | thiago_home, One person said "I'm not sure if there's going to be a documentation working group, it makes more sense to have a documentation project" | 22:11 |
| dneary | And I didn't understand | 22:11 |
| * lbt saw the keynotes on day 1 ... nice marketing but nothing new to people here. The rest wasn't broadcast | 22:11 | |
| lbt | makes it hard to give feedback or ask anything meaningful | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, Myrtti recorded the stuff from Thursday. | 22:11 |
| * CosmoHill wonders if the SSSE3 requirements will be dropped | 22:11 | |
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| dneary | lbt, Someone was recording talks in the meego sessions | 22:12 |
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| lbt | yeah, not published yet though | 22:12 |
| lbt | is it? | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, don't think so. | 22:12 |
| dneary | thiago_home, Re. your question on out-of-track stuff, there is always lots of conversation, over dinner tables & coffee | 22:13 |
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| * GeneralAntilles facepalms. | 22:13 | |
| slaine | CosmoHill: doubtful | 22:14 |
| slaine | I asked at the start and was slamed | 22:14 |
| thiago_home | dneary: of course | 22:14 |
| thiago_home | wondering if there were anything of relevance | 22:14 |
| thiago_home | or burning topic that popped up | 22:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | thiago_home, off the top of my head: social news, and MeeGo Community Council proposal were both discussed out-of-track. | 22:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which might be relevant | 22:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | although no conclusions were reached. | 22:14 |
| thiago_home | well, at least started, which is good | 22:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Also discussed bugs/bugzilla.meego.com | 22:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | But I just pushed that to -community. | 22:15 |
| * GeneralAntilles is off to go kayaking. | 22:16 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Later, all. | 22:16 |
| lcuk | have fun GeneralAntilles | 22:16 |
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| dneary | Only a kernel developer could call a mailing list with over 100 messages a month "low traffic" :) | 22:18 |
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| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: could you add a note about #meego-devel | 22:19 |
| CosmoHill | #info thingy | 22:19 |
| arjan | anything less than 25/day is low traffic ;) | 22:19 |
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| dneary | arjan, That's what I'm saying :) | 22:20 |
| dneary | arjan, And we're not far off the 25/day recently | 22:20 |
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| Stskeeps | fiferboy: congrats on the job offer! | 22:27 |
| lbt | fiferboy: ? | 22:27 |
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| lcuk | fiferboy? job? :D | 22:28 |
| thiago_home | what's a job? | 22:28 |
| fiferboy | Stskeeps: Thanks! | 22:29 |
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| fiferboy | lcuk: Never thought you would hear the two together? | 22:29 |
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| lcuk | just not heard from you in a couple of weeks :) tell all | 22:30 |
| VDVsx | fiferboy, are you coming to .fi ? :D | 22:30 |
| * lbt mutters.... so the feedback on the LF collab from those who were there is "there were various meetings and discussions" | 22:30 | |
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| fiferboy | I was on a self-imposed hiatus while focusing on family and finding a job | 22:34 |
| fiferboy | It is just a programmer/systems analyst job at a local company, but it is what I wanted to get into | 22:34 |
| lcuk | fiferboy, :) totally understand stance, and am chuffed you seem to found something | 22:35 |
| VDVsx | at least near to your home, thats good for your family ;) | 22:35 |
| lcuk | are you thinking of accepting this one? | 22:35 |
| fiferboy | VDVsx: Yeah, but I was looking in Finland too ;) | 22:35 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: Yes, if I don't get any other offers today... | 22:35 |
| * lcuk nods | 22:36 | |
| VDVsx | fiferboy, lol, don't "believe the lies", Finland is not a paradise :D | 22:37 |
| * VDVsx hides | 22:37 | |
| Zeikko | I'm happy to get out of Finland soon :) | 22:37 |
| * VDVsx suggests hawaii to Zeikko :D | 22:38 | |
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| lbt | we have Imad and Valherri here and we discuss a conference with them | 22:40 |
| lbt | WTF? | 22:40 |
| Zeikko | VDVsx: Why Hawaii? I'm going to Canada | 22:40 |
| lbt | after all the bitching and moaning about openness? | 22:40 |
| fiferboy | So, what has gone on in the last two months? Any new PRs? ;) | 22:41 |
| slaine | lbt, and I get blamed for conspiracy theories. The agenda mentioned openness earlier today, all trace gone now | 22:41 |
| VDVsx | Zeikko, because Hawaii seems a nice place :) relaxing, good weather, cheap beer?, ... | 22:42 |
| VDVsx | fiferboy, there's 1.1.1 :D | 22:42 |
| * VDVsx waits for pr 1.1.1.1.1.1 :D | 22:43 | |
| tekojo | slaine, with a wiki it's pretty easy to see who changed what and when | 22:43 |
| * lcuk slaps VDVsx | 22:43 | |
| fiferboy | Can't go wrong with Canada :) | 22:43 |
| slaine | hence my question | 22:43 |
| * VDVsx drops a piano at lcuk | 22:43 | |
| * thiago_home wonders what to make of his plans for PR 1.4 | 22:44 | |
| * lcuk plays a tune | 22:44 | |
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| thiago_home | dneary: topic has changed | 22:46 |
| thiago_home | dneary: Dawn said that the place and date would be finalised at the latest next week | 22:47 |
| CosmoHill | costs? | 22:47 |
| thiago_home | cost to what? | 22:47 |
| CosmoHill | the erm dammit what is it called | 22:48 |
| CosmoHill | it's not summit | 22:48 |
| thiago_home | conference | 22:48 |
| CosmoHill | thank you | 22:48 |
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| thiago_home | dneary: somewhere in Europe | 22:51 |
| dneary | thiago_home, Yeah, I know, but I just want it to be clear when someone is working on things behind closed doors, so that I don't start working on it | 22:51 |
| thiago_home | I thought it was clear that Dawn and Quim would take point in that | 22:52 |
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| slaine | damn, should have asked that one sooner | 23:00 |
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| DawnFoster | slaine - ask again on the mailing list & I'll help you poke people. | 23:02 |
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| DawnFoster | OK, what did everyone think? Was this better or worse as an unmoderated meeting vs. moderated? | 23:03 |
| lbt | better in some ways | 23:03 |
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| lcuk | it did understandable get busy, people asking very long detailed quesitons | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: maybe a semi-moderated meeting where people ask for turns to talk | 23:04 |
| lbt | it's hard to know when it's gone dead as people spend minutes composing long answers | 23:04 |
| slaine | I felt more involved than in the previous two I've attended | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | could be done with +'s | 23:04 |
| * CosmoHill really should pay more attention when in the meeting | 23:04 | |
| lcuk | yes lbt | 23:04 |
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| lcuk | the ? | 23:04 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: Imad and I were just talking about that. | 23:04 |
| lcuk | . | 23:04 |
| lcuk | method seemed to work | 23:04 |
| * lbt suggests that when people have long answers they type in fragments so people see activity | 23:04 | |
| DawnFoster | Maybe moderating while they communicate info and flipping to unmoderated at different points for questions. | 23:04 |
| DawnFoster | keeps the focus, but leaves much of the meeting open | 23:05 |
| lcuk | sounds reasonable | 23:05 |
| lbt | and then when they're done | 23:05 |
| lbt | . | 23:05 |
| DawnFoster | we'll probably have to decide on a per topic basis. | 23:05 |
| thiago_home | we need a "raise hand" feature | 23:05 |
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| lcuk | videochat! | 23:05 |
| dneary | lcuk, I think I would prefer somewhere intermediate - the meeting tonight seemed to be too chatty, not very focussed | 23:05 |
| lcuk | on your meego device | 23:05 |
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| DawnFoster | more communication focused topics can be moderated and then we can also have open discussions. | 23:05 |
| dneary | And in the end of the day, no great insighhts | 23:05 |
| lcuk | yes dneary | 23:05 |
| thiago_home | # APPEARS AS airplane | 23:05 |
| DawnFoster | Imad liked the format | 23:05 |
| lcuk | but this whole week has been chatty | 23:05 |
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| thiago_home | anyone remember MS Comic Chat? | 23:06 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, we all liked it better than unmoderated | 23:06 |
| koupsaa | yes better | 23:06 |
| lcuk | errr sorry | 23:06 |
| lcuk | locked | 23:06 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: you liked this one better than previous formats? | 23:06 |
| lcuk | yes | 23:06 |
| lcuk | immensely - communal | 23:06 |
| dneary | lcuk, I'd like it more moderated than tonight, less rigid than usual | 23:06 |
| DawnFoster | yeah, me too. It worked better than I thought even though it got a little chaotic at times | 23:07 |
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| slaine | And thanks for letting the Openess discussion happen, even if it was only for a few mins | 23:07 |
| * thiago_home didn't feel it was chaotic | 23:07 | |
| DawnFoster | dneary - I think we can experiment to find a happy medium | 23:07 |
| thiago_home | but I'm used to IRC, though | 23:07 |
| lbt | not too bad | 23:07 |
| DawnFoster | it was chaotic to manage :) | 23:07 |
| slaine | Yeah, I was about to say | 23:07 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: you may find a separate chan for the meetingbot | 23:08 |
| DawnFoster | if I'd just been a participant, it wouldn't have seemed as chaotic | 23:08 |
| thiago_home | or people should just use it with #info | 23:08 |
| lbt | the best meeting I've been in had a moderator who called on people to ask questions | 23:09 |
| lbt | so you raised your hand with an ! | 23:09 |
| thiago_home | that's fine as long as the question queue is short | 23:09 |
| lcuk | yes lbt - we tried that format a few weeks ago afaik | 23:09 |
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| lcuk | i liked it | 23:09 |
| lcuk | cog ? doesnt pollute and lets q&a work | 23:10 |
| lbt | maybe only allow first few questions ? | 23:10 |
| lcuk | cos ^ | 23:10 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: are you actively backing up the meeting logs/minutes btw? I back them up myself, but would be good to know if you people do too :) | 23:11 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps the plan is to start doing that, but I don't think that Mike has gotten around to it yet. | 23:11 |
| DawnFoster | We want to keep a copy on meego.com so that people can find them through search. | 23:11 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 23:11 |
| dneary | DawnFoster: mlstats gives you a mysql database of every message sent to the list, from a URL of private archives | 23:11 |
| DawnFoster | dneary: oh cool | 23:12 |
| dneary | You can re-run it every month (or every day) with cron, and get the info you're looking for with simple mysql queries | 23:12 |
| slaine | right guys, time to put the kids to bed | 23:13 |
| slaine | I'll catch you all tomorrow | 23:13 |
| DawnFoster | do you have a link to it? Assume it needs to run on the mailing list server? | 23:13 |
| DawnFoster | later slaine! | 23:13 |
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| dneary | DawnFoster: No, it downloads publoic archives | 23:13 |
| dneary | DawnFoster: Your mysql database can be anywhere | 23:13 |
| lbt | dneary: yes, just to have internal teams reporting that up to their management would make them think about it | 23:14 |
| DawnFoster | oh cool, so I can just run it locally on a mysql db | 23:14 |
| dneary | And then some simple php to query & mark up or graph | 23:14 |
| Stskeeps | right, time to get ready for a full day of hacking tomorrow :) | 23:14 |
| * Stskeeps heads to bed | 23:14 | |
| lbt | o/ | 23:15 |
| * thiago_home has a day full of meetings, again | 23:15 | |
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| dneary | Then getting the threads is as simple as (!): "select subject,monthname(first_date) as m,count(*) as c from messages group by subject, month(first_date) order by m, c;" | 23:16 |
| dneary | 95 posts in the "N900 questions" thread | 23:16 |
| dneary | in March | 23:16 |
| DawnFoster | do you have a link to the instructions for install / use? | 23:17 |
| dneary | DawnFoster: mlstats-0.4 on https://forge.morfeo-project.org/frs/?group_id=33 | 23:18 |
| dneary | After setting up the DB user, I "just" ran: "mlstats --db-user=mlstats --db-password=pwd --db-admin-user=root --db-admin-password=pwd http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/" | 23:20 |
| dneary | And every mail from the list gets parsed & inserted into the mlstats database | 23:20 |
| dneary | From there it's just a question of massaging things | 23:23 |
| dneary | and finding the right query to extract the data you want | 23:23 |
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| * CosmoHill is watching The ButterFly Effect | 23:29 | |
| thiago_home | good movie | 23:31 |
| DawnFoster | dneary: thanks so much! *goes off to install stuff and remember how to use mysql* :) | 23:31 |
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| jpwhiting | hey all, anyone know if there's a yum or zypper repo that has man in it? | 23:33 |
| jpwhiting | missing man is so annoying :) | 23:33 |
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| * lbt considers a patch for date to understand "day after tomorrow" | 23:40 | |
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| CosmoHill | DawnFoster: :) | 23:45 |
| CosmoHill | i might be able to help you with the mysql thingy | 23:45 |
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| CosmoHill | thiago_home: i've not seen it before but I am enjoying it in a weird way | 23:46 |
| DawnFoster | CosmoHill: I've used mysql for local wordpress sandboxes and reporting from dbs, but it's been a year or so, and I was never much of a db expert, so I might take you up on that :) | 23:46 |
| DawnFoster | I'm installing stuff now | 23:47 |
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