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| Jartza | Whoa | 01:22 |
|---|---|---|
| Jartza | I remember configuring irssi for freenode and #meego, but forgot it and didn't notice until now :D | 01:23 |
| Jartza | Well. Hi everyone. | 01:24 |
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| Jartza | seems to be quite quiet also at this time | 01:29 |
| GAN900 | Jartza, lot of people recoving from the LF Summit. ;) | 01:30 |
| GAN900 | or stuck in airports. | 01:30 |
| Jartza | yeah :) | 01:31 |
| Jartza | no use going into airport here, all closed | 01:31 |
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| CosmoHill | anyone uses a non-qwerty keymap? | 01:32 |
| GAN900 | Dvorak | 01:32 |
| Jartza | french people are, at least :) | 01:33 |
| CosmoHill | why'd you change to that? | 01:33 |
| Jartza | and german :) | 01:33 |
| CosmoHill | you pedantic SOB :p | 01:33 |
| GAN900 | CosmoHill, easier on the hands | 01:33 |
| GAN900 | Less movement | 01:33 |
| Jartza | CosmoHill: hey, I'm an instructor and a coder, what would you expect :) | 01:34 |
| CosmoHill | hehe | 01:34 |
| CosmoHill | I had my lecturer correcting spellings and grammar in my comments | 01:34 |
| Jartza | well done | 01:35 |
| Jartza | :D | 01:35 |
| Jartza | I'm not going to correct anyone's spellings or grammar here, at least | 01:36 |
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| CosmoHill | GAN900: what keymap did you use before? | 01:38 |
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| Jartza | I actually tried dvorak sometime around 98-99 but didn't like it, at least not the finnish mapping | 01:39 |
| Jartza | it was ok for english typing though | 01:39 |
| CosmoHill | i was thinking of programming | 01:39 |
| CosmoHill | I'm on qwerty now and I can touch type pretty fast | 01:39 |
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| CosmoHill | I still have to think about how to spell qwerty tho :/; | 01:40 |
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| Jartza | :) | 01:40 |
| GAN900 | CosmoHill, QWERTY | 01:41 |
| GAN900 | I got about 80-140 on QWERTY | 01:41 |
| GAN900 | about 90-140 on Dvorak. | 01:42 |
| GAN900 | Hand and wrist strain is really the reason to do it, though. | 01:42 |
| CosmoHill | i think my main wrist strain is mainly from the mouce | 01:43 |
| GAN900 | Mmm | 01:43 |
| CosmoHill | i think if I want to give dvorak a go I should do it in summer | 01:45 |
| GAN900 | CosmoHill, two things | 01:45 |
| GAN900 | make sure you move your caps around | 01:45 |
| GAN900 | and make sure you keep typing QWERTY while learning. | 01:46 |
| CosmoHill | caps? | 01:46 |
| GAN900 | CosmoHill, that way you can type whatever's on the caps | 01:46 |
| GAN900 | Key caps | 01:46 |
| GAN900 | Tops of the keys | 01:46 |
| GAN900 | If you don't have a keyboard you can move keys around then buy one | 01:46 |
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| CosmoHill | I made a dvorak keyboard once but the keys were uneven | 01:47 |
| CosmoHill | I could touch type qwerty on it | 01:47 |
| GAN900 | Because if you learn to type on a QWERTY labelled board with Dvorak in software then you wont be able to type QWERTY anymore. | 01:47 |
| CosmoHill | it was fine unless I looked down | 01:47 |
| GAN900 | Yeah, get one with moveable keys | 01:47 |
| CosmoHill | ooo good point | 01:47 |
| timeless_mbp | Jartza: i'm glad to hear there's a finnish lecturer who's concerned about spelling | 01:48 |
| GAN900 | CosmoHill, I can type both layouts fine | 01:48 |
| GAN900 | CosmoHill, but I can only type whatever's on the caps. | 01:48 |
| GAN900 | Even though I touch type | 01:48 |
| GAN900 | It's kinda weird | 01:48 |
| CosmoHill | i know what you need | 01:49 |
| CosmoHill | Das Keyboard Ultimate | 01:49 |
| GAN900 | I have to calibrate myself whenever I change layouts. | 01:49 |
| GAN900 | Pfft | 01:49 |
| GAN900 | Piece of shit | 01:49 |
| GAN900 | pckeyboard.com | 01:49 |
| GAN900 | IBM Model M. | 01:49 |
| CosmoHill | http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_3083.html | 01:50 |
| GAN900 | One True Keyboard :P | 01:50 |
| CosmoHill | that looks awesome but i think they might have gone a little to far | 01:50 |
| CosmoHill | for example, print screen | 01:50 |
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| javispedro | GAN900++ | 02:00 |
| javispedro | I remember that keyboard from my childhood. It's like a dream. | 02:01 |
| javispedro | Maybe I'm idealizing it a bit too much :) | 02:01 |
| Jartza | timeless_mbp: well, not that much of the english spelling, although I usually try my best, even that it's not my native language :) | 02:03 |
| CosmoHill | why is a Dvorak keyboard so hard to buy >.< | 02:04 |
| CosmoHill | aaaaahhhhhhhhh | 02:10 |
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| CosmoHill | bollocks | 02:11 |
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| CosmoHill | GAN900: http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_3055.html ooo | 02:29 |
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| CosmoHill | looks like it should be easy to convent it to dvorak | 02:32 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 04:40 |
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| orospakr | Have the upstream developers at (I assume) Intel, Nokia, and LF done anything publicly? I don't see too much activity in this channel... | 04:56 |
| GAN900 | orospakr, how do you mean "publicly"? | 04:57 |
| GAN900 | Several of the engineers are on here frequently, they have tsg meetings here, code is available | 04:58 |
| GAN900 | many discussions take place on the mailing lists | 04:58 |
| GAN900 | They also just had a full day for MeeGo at the LF Summit in SF. | 04:58 |
| orospakr | excellent; I really should have looked at the lists. | 05:00 |
| orospakr | alas, I was only able to make it to ELC/Collab Summit last year. | 05:02 |
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| Termana | hey hey | 07:54 |
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| th0br0 | heya | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | morning th0br0 | 11:57 |
| th0br0 | :) | 11:57 |
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| * lbt tries another "osc build mic2-image.kiwi" | 13:45 | |
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| th0br0 | :) lbt | 14:08 |
| * Stskeeps continues hacking his joggler with meego | 14:08 | |
| dgegne | is the netbook UI ready? | 14:09 |
| Stskeeps | no idea | 14:10 |
| dgegne | i'd like to give it a try | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | i'd like to try out handset UX personally | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | on my joggler | 14:11 |
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| thiago_home | if it's not been released, it's not ready | 14:17 |
| thiago_home | that is not to say that it will be ready when it is released | 14:17 |
| lbt | thiago_home: ah. "Available when ready".... that's the kind of habit we need to break | 14:18 |
| thiago_home | that's exactly what I said | 14:18 |
| thiago_home | out is a necessary condition for being ready | 14:19 |
| thiago_home | it's not a sufficient condition | 14:19 |
| lbt | ready is a sufficient condition for being out. It's not a required condition. | 14:20 |
| lbt | the problem is that Meego is treating "ready" as being required for "out" | 14:20 |
| lbt | which != open enough | 14:20 |
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| thiago_home | yes, ready is a sufficient condition for being out | 14:22 |
| thiago_home | but it can be out before it's ready | 14:22 |
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| thiago_home | and well it should | 14:22 |
| Termana | I think you guys are playing on words here, I'm pretty sure dgegne was implying ready as in available to use, not ready as in good usability | 14:22 |
| thiago_home | yes | 14:23 |
| thiago_home | and I pointed out that, if it's not even out yet, it's not ready | 14:23 |
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| Termana | I didn't say you weren't making a valid point :P I just meant that I think that you may confuse someone that doesn't know what your talking about if you expand their question into another one, without giving them a clear answer first. | 14:25 |
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| ShadowJK | I guess his beef is that if MeeGo is supposed to be open development, but things still mostly get created inside hidden repositories or on harddrives somewhere, and only appear in big chunks to MeeGo when "ready", as if each commit into MeeGo was a release of the software in question, that such a model doesn't meet his expetations of what open dev means :) | 14:26 |
| Termana | ShadowJK: :P again, I'm not saying he didn't have a valid point, I'm just saying that someones question was expanded past the scope of the question, and someone could get confused if you don't offer them a clear answer to their question before doing that. | 14:28 |
| * thiago_home agrees | 14:28 | |
| ShadowJK | There certainly are projects where developers work on a feature entirely on a local repo on his PC until it's functional, and then commit it as a huge blob. Sometimes with the dev history, sometimes not | 14:28 |
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| dgegne | thiago_home they showed netbook UI at IDF | 14:31 |
| dgegne | so there's something ready | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | demos != ready | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:32 |
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| thiago_home | dgegne: I didn't know that | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah, it's a bit of a bad situation when a project's supposed to be open, except now hardware vendors is showing it off, instead of everyone having the ability.. | 14:33 |
| thiago_home | you know what the problem is, right? | 14:33 |
| thiago_home | if you start releasing code that is not good enough, the press will kill us | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | that too | 14:33 |
| CosmoHill | thiago_home: you know about sparc computers right? | 14:33 |
| thiago_home | CosmoHill: somewhat, yes | 14:33 |
| thiago_home | CosmoHill: I have access to one 16-CPU UltraSparc and one with 24 | 14:34 |
| CosmoHill | I'm looking at getting a SunFire V240 for about $192 USB | 14:34 |
| CosmoHill | *USD | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: except in a open project, these risks have to be taken - nokia will base on a stable meego release anyway most likely | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | not the intermediate | 14:34 |
| ShadowJK | thiago_home, I think you need to readjust the standards by habitually comtting uncompilable code on friday afternoons, fixing it next thursday evening but breaking the build system, fixing build system again shortly after comitting uncompilable code again on friday. | 14:35 |
| lbt | ShadowJK: BAU | 14:35 |
| CosmoHill | thiago_home: does that sound like a good price? | 14:36 |
| lbt | CosmoHill: that's shipping. How much is it to upgrade your house elecy supply? | 14:36 |
| ShadowJK | You can have my Sparcstation5 and Netra for free if you pay shipping ;p | 14:37 |
| CosmoHill | lbt: it uses kettle leads | 14:37 |
| CosmoHill | and that price includes shipping | 14:37 |
| thiago_home | ShadowJK: sounds like Qt development | 14:38 |
| thiago_home | ShadowJK: all 8 staging branches were broken on Friday afternoon | 14:38 |
| thiago_home | CosmoHill: I have no idea about prices, sorry | 14:38 |
| CosmoHill | that's okay | 14:39 |
| CosmoHill | I'm just thinking, my 500Mhz Sublade 100 was £50 | 14:39 |
| CosmoHill | for a little over double the price I'm getting two 1.2Ghz processors and a load of RAM + HDD space | 14:39 |
| CosmoHill | (yes I realise I'm basically talking myself into a buy) | 14:40 |
| thiago_home | I have to ask: why? | 14:42 |
| * ShadowJK switched from buying sparc crap to buying arm crap | 14:42 | |
| ShadowJK | takes up less space | 14:42 |
| ShadowJK | thiago_home, sssshhh, the guy's in love | 14:42 |
| CosmoHill | cos my subblade 100 takes a week to do a CLFS build | 14:43 |
| thiago_home | 32 general-purpose registers, 24 of which rotate | 14:43 |
| thiago_home | but they rotate in 16 increments | 14:43 |
| CosmoHill | I've just seen a military helicopter fly over :o | 14:44 |
| thiago_home | flights allowed? | 14:45 |
| thiago_home | airspace is still closed here | 14:45 |
| * thiago_home is somewhat glad he didn't go to LCS | 14:45 | |
| lcuk | thiago_home, i think i commented on a qt bug from 2004 | 14:45 |
| lcuk | accidentally | 14:45 |
| lcuk | :D | 14:45 |
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| CosmoHill | thiago_home: nope, still closed | 14:46 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: I thought we had closed all of those :-) | 14:46 |
| lcuk | you did, but i commented anyway | 14:46 |
| lcuk | with a big block of info | 14:46 |
| CosmoHill | it took my a moment to go "wait,uk airspace is closed so what are you doing in the sky?" | 14:46 |
| lcuk | i wanted a qt native method of doing something | 14:46 |
| lcuk | and the only way i could do it was to make OS specific callouts | 14:46 |
| thiago_home | doing what? | 14:46 |
| lcuk | multicast networking | 14:46 |
| thiago_home | ah, right | 14:47 |
| thiago_home | QTBUG-9 or 11 | 14:47 |
| thiago_home | you have me to thank for it being imported in the first place into JIRA | 14:47 |
| lcuk | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-7 | 14:47 |
| lcuk | of course | 14:47 |
| thiago_home | it's not very hard to do it | 14:47 |
| thiago_home | just a couple of extra functions in QUdpSocket | 14:47 |
| lcuk | and some of the google results i found led to there | 14:47 |
| lcuk | and thats a dead end \@/ | 14:47 |
| lcuk | of course its not hard | 14:47 |
| lcuk | i posted a load of places where people have answered it for various OSes | 14:48 |
| lcuk | some even from qt faq and stuff | 14:48 |
| thiago_home | like I said, not hard | 14:48 |
| thiago_home | it's basically adding the methods to add and remove group memberships | 14:48 |
| lcuk | but as it stands i cannot use pyqt or pyside to do native qt cross platform multicast | 14:48 |
| thiago_home | plus setting a couple of options | 14:48 |
| thiago_home | the issue is that UDP behaves differently on each OS | 14:49 |
| lcuk | i could easy step outside the walled garden | 14:49 |
| lcuk | but then it will break elsewhere | 14:49 |
| thiago_home | we have an open issue on Solaris that the "reuse socket" flag works the opposite of what it's supposed to | 14:49 |
| * lcuk nods | 14:49 | |
| thiago_home | you can get the socketDescriptor from the QUdpSocket and add your membership | 14:49 |
| lcuk | and then when i run that code on windows or something it will fail | 14:50 |
| thiago_home | then you continue using the sendDatagram and receiveDatagram functions | 14:50 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 14:50 |
| lcuk | unless i put heavy defines in (can you use ifdef in python?) | 14:50 |
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| CosmoHill | thiago_home: http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/album.php?albumid=8&pictureid=114 :) | 15:30 |
| thiago_home | :) | 15:31 |
| thiago_home | our Sparc are running Solaris though | 15:31 |
| CosmoHill | solaris doesn't like my sunblade | 15:32 |
| th0br0 | "your kernel"? | 15:32 |
| CosmoHill | for a start the sunblade gives an error about the IPROM checksum being weird and I have to boot it via keyboard / serial | 15:33 |
| CosmoHill | I built a custom linux kernel | 15:33 |
| CosmoHill | the rest of the system is ubuntu | 15:33 |
| th0br0 | kk | 15:33 |
| th0br0 | "audio assignment" _> ? | 15:33 |
| CosmoHill | "Introduction to sound" is a module I had to do in my first year | 15:34 |
| th0br0 | ah ok | 15:34 |
| th0br0 | what are you studying? | 15:34 |
| CosmoHill | I basically chose the wrong story todo and got a C | 15:34 |
| CosmoHill | Computer Science / Computing | 15:34 |
| th0br0 | :) that subject sucks here in germany kinda, mostly theoretical if studying at some university. | 15:35 |
| th0br0 | if you graduate, you'll rather have some administrative role, no real programming, but are well paid... | 15:36 |
| CosmoHill | as it turns out I'm actually doing computing | 15:36 |
| th0br0 | :) | 15:36 |
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| CosmoHill | which involes a lot more pratical things | 15:41 |
| CosmoHill | tbh i got out of bed 2 hours ago with the intention of working on my C++ assignment | 15:41 |
| Zeikko_ | CosmoHill: thanks for reminding about those :S | 15:43 |
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| CosmoHill | I have 4 and will be panicing soon | 15:43 |
| Zeikko | When is the deadline? Tomorrow? | 15:43 |
| CosmoHill | 3 and a bit weeks | 15:44 |
| Zeikko | Huh, they must be large assignments then | 15:44 |
| CosmoHill | they were set in late feb / early march | 15:44 |
| CosmoHill | plus I have todo the right up for them all | 15:45 |
| CosmoHill | GAN900: http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/album.php?albumid=8&pictureid=220 | 15:45 |
| thiago_home | "What is a protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor ?" | 15:45 |
| * CosmoHill explodes | 15:45 | |
| RST38h | That is someone using Bjarne Stroustrup's book for smoking rather than reading | 15:46 |
| CosmoHill | protected means that you can't access it directly but it can be inherited | 15:46 |
| CosmoHill | virtual means that you need to implement it later in the child class | 15:46 |
| thiago_home | there are two "virtual" in the sentence | 15:46 |
| thiago_home | both of them are qualified | 15:46 |
| RST38h | Cosmo: Actually, no. | 15:46 |
| RST38h | Cosmo: That would be "pure" | 15:47 |
| RST38h | But, to simplify things, any time you see something like that, RUN. | 15:47 |
| thiago_home | pure virtual, which is one of the two qualifications | 15:47 |
| CosmoHill | a destructor is something that is ran when the object goes out of scope | 15:47 |
| thiago_home | ok, so destructor | 15:47 |
| thiago_home | what's a private destructor? | 15:47 |
| RST38h | A destructor that is private? | 15:47 |
| thiago_home | what's a pure virtual private destructor? | 15:48 |
| CosmoHill | something you do away from the pubic? | 15:48 |
| CosmoHill | bad programming? | 15:48 |
| CosmoHill | if it's private can't inherit it | 15:48 |
| CosmoHill | but it's also pure virtual which means you must implement it in the inherited class | 15:48 |
| thiago_home | you forgot "C++, where your friends can see your privates" | 15:48 |
| CosmoHill | I have never heard that before but I am glad I have my legs crossed | 15:49 |
| thiago_home | anyway, yeah | 15:49 |
| thiago_home | now what's a virtual base? | 15:49 |
| CosmoHill | a base datatype? | 15:49 |
| thiago_home | yes, it's a base. What's a virtual base? | 15:50 |
| CosmoHill | is it a custom datatype that you will implement later | 15:50 |
| CosmoHill | like a class | 15:50 |
| thiago_home | no | 15:50 |
| RST38h | thiago: May I ask about the reason for your inquiry? =) | 15:51 |
| thiago_home | just making fun | 15:51 |
| * CosmoHill thinks he's doing well | 15:51 | |
| thiago_home | that question about "protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor" is well-known | 15:51 |
| th0br0 | virtual base -> template ? | 15:51 |
| thiago_home | class B: virtual public A {}; | 15:51 |
| RST38h | (I mean, are you really unfortunate enough to deal with the fallout from some "C++ hacker" employment or is it somethign you are going to introduce yourself?] | 15:51 |
| thiago_home | A is a virtual base of B | 15:51 |
| CosmoHill | I think I've missed placed one of my keyboards | 15:52 |
| CosmoHill | oh no i found it | 15:52 |
| th0br0 | yeah, i saw the solution.. .crazy... | 15:53 |
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| CosmoHill | I have to load data from a file into my program | 15:54 |
| CosmoHill | I'd like to use XML but i duno where to start | 15:54 |
| th0br0 | tinyxml is your friend | 15:54 |
| CosmoHill | is there a standard c++ library that i could use or would I be looking at something l iike boost | 15:54 |
| th0br0 | you need a base node ofc. to facilitate stuff. | 15:54 |
| th0br0 | tinyxml++ likely. | 15:54 |
| thiago_home | there's the Standard Template Library | 15:55 |
| th0br0 | not for xml tho | 15:55 |
| thiago_home | that's the only thing they'll allow you to use in classes, though | 15:55 |
| CosmoHill | I have other things todo before I get there so I'll ask | 15:55 |
| th0br0 | write an xml parser yourself... | 15:56 |
| CosmoHill | that sounds kinda big | 15:56 |
| th0br0 | well... | 15:56 |
| th0br0 | 2 classes? | 15:56 |
| CosmoHill | i meant in terms of work | 15:56 |
| th0br0 | mmh... it's mostly recrusively parsing everything... | 15:56 |
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| th0br0 | a map for every node's parameters and a list for all the subnodes | 15:58 |
| th0br0 | ofc, reading stuff out of that might be difficult ;) | 15:58 |
| th0br0 | depends on how deep you recurse / xml structure. | 15:58 |
| th0br0 | imho | 15:58 |
| RST38h | CosmoHill: We ended up writing a tiny xml parser | 15:59 |
| thiago_home | that's loading the entire XML into memory | 15:59 |
| RST38h | Only handles a subset of XML, but that is sufficient for reading config | 15:59 |
| th0br0 | thiago_home: well, yeah, in case that he wants to save the xml later on. | 15:59 |
| CosmoHill | on mo | 15:59 |
| thiago_home | that's not the point... | 16:00 |
| thiago_home | the point is that the XML file could be big | 16:00 |
| CosmoHill | excluding main, I have 8 classes | 16:00 |
| th0br0 | thiago_home: unlikely for a config file though, but you're right | 16:01 |
| th0br0 | what are you writing, CosmoHill? | 16:01 |
| thiago_home | I'd stream-parse the file and store the data in my own config structure | 16:01 |
| thiago_home | if you need to save, re-generate the XML from the config | 16:02 |
| CosmoHill | a text based RPG game with linked lists | 16:02 |
| th0br0 | what do you need the linked lists for? | 16:02 |
| Zeikko | linked lists for the win :D | 16:02 |
| CosmoHill | mapClass has a linked list of locationClass | 16:03 |
| th0br0 | i think maps would be easier but ;) | 16:03 |
| th0br0 | nvm that, maps aren't that different actually... | 16:03 |
| CosmoHill | locationClass has a linked list of items and people | 16:03 |
| th0br0 | are you using polymorphism? | 16:03 |
| CosmoHill | plus it's a requirment | 16:03 |
| th0br0 | you are required to separate between items and people? | 16:03 |
| CosmoHill | I'm probably not but remind me what that word means again | 16:04 |
| th0br0 | inheritance... | 16:04 |
| th0br0 | you have a basic class Actor which both, Items and People, share. | 16:04 |
| RST38h | May I suggest using dynamic arrays rather than linked lists? | 16:04 |
| CosmoHill | we have a characterclass that is inherited into player and nonplayer | 16:04 |
| th0br0 | do you have a basic actor class? :) | 16:04 |
| CosmoHill | RST38h: probably not, it is a requirement that I used a linked list | 16:05 |
| lcuk | dynamic arrays need reallocating and copying for extending dont they? | 16:05 |
| CosmoHill | th0br0: that is character class | 16:05 |
| lcuk | linked lists win | 16:05 |
| RST38h | Whose requirement? =) | 16:05 |
| th0br0 | CosmoHill: do the items use that too? | 16:05 |
| CosmoHill | my lecturer's | 16:05 |
| CosmoHill | hold on a mo, I'll draw a diagram | 16:05 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Cause all kinds of malloc bottlenecks and give you a plenty of opportunity to leak memory, if you are careless | 16:05 |
| CosmoHill | can everyone see blue? | 16:06 |
| RST38h | lcuk: A secret weapon against them is a dynamic array that never shrinks its storage, just grows | 16:06 |
| lcuk | RST38h, same with anything | 16:06 |
| lcuk | if malloc fails you are pretty much screwed | 16:06 |
| RST38h | lcuk: malloc does not "fail" | 16:06 |
| lcuk | sure it does | 16:06 |
| th0br0 | RST38h: you'd normally iterate through the vector though (for drawing, collision checks, etc.) so why would a vector be more useful here? | 16:06 |
| RST38h | lcuk: it is just way to slow for fast repeated allocation | 16:07 |
| th0br0 | to be expected, CosmoHill | 16:07 |
| thiago_home | cache hits | 16:07 |
| RST38h | th0br0: query-wise, array and linked lists are pretty much the same, except that arrays give you better data locality | 16:07 |
| th0br0 | mh, so a small speed-boost | 16:08 |
| RST38h | th0br0: deletion-wise, arrays are bitches of course, but in a lot of cases you never delete or do it rarely | 16:08 |
| th0br0 | true. | 16:08 |
| RST38h | th0br0: *or* can express your list as a stack or a queue (deletion from these is easy) | 16:08 |
| lcuk | do you hold the array contents byval or byref | 16:08 |
| th0br0 | but if he's writing a rpg, he might have to remove entries when, e.g. an item is picked up or an actor dies | 16:08 |
| RST38h | th0br0: Now, addition to the end of the list or array is the same, except that for a list you always have to malloc | 16:08 |
| lcuk | linked lists allow self walking and knowing neighbour relations from the object itself | 16:09 |
| lcuk | you cannot make that assumption with an array | 16:09 |
| RST38h | th0br0: Yes, but he wont be deleting hundreds of items from the lists of thousands every second | 16:09 |
| th0br0 | lcuk: wouldn't byref be faster? | 16:09 |
| th0br0 | true RST38h :) | 16:09 |
| lcuk | byref linked lists still have fragmentation | 16:09 |
| lcuk | and the objects know nothing about their neighbours | 16:09 |
| RST38h | th0br0: Important thing array gives you is control over memory allocation. You allocate at one spot, in a very controlled way | 16:10 |
| lcuk | removing an item from the middle of an array is a ballache | 16:10 |
| lcuk | malloc works on similar slabs already RST38h | 16:10 |
| RST38h | th0br0: So, if you can get away with defficiencies (and in many cases you can), then arrays are a way to go | 16:11 |
| th0br0 | mh | 16:11 |
| RST38h | For other cases, there are lists (in which case you should allocate in Add() and free in Delete() and nowhere else) | 16:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The problem is, you do not know how malloc() works | 16:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I suggest you try figuring out how Windows malloc() works, for an eyeopening experience | 16:12 |
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| lcuk | wheres the code? | 16:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Starting with AllocMem() and below | 16:12 |
| * CosmoHill glares at the 2" gap between his laptop and cable | 16:12 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: Why? In Windows of course! NTDLL | 16:12 |
| th0br0 | What's so bad about window's malloc? | 16:12 |
| th0br0 | lcuk: start up ollydbg or ida and start reading ntdll ;) | 16:13 |
| RST38h | th0br0: Takes enormous, uncontrollable amounts of time | 16:13 |
| th0br0 | and linux's doesn't? | 16:13 |
| lcuk | does c++ object creation directly use malloc then? | 16:13 |
| RST38h | th0br0: Unix malloc is not perfect either of course, but it is quick by comparison | 16:13 |
| th0br0 | ok | 16:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: new does | 16:13 |
| lcuk | or does it have its own intermediate slab allocator | 16:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Depends on implementation | 16:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But there is no "ideal" malloc implementation, slab or no slab | 16:14 |
| thiago_home | in our benchmarks, the linux malloc is much better than mac or windows | 16:14 |
| lcuk | as there is no ideal dynamic array method | 16:14 |
| RST38h | thiago: Of course it is | 16:14 |
| RST38h | thiago: But still a pig, when you rely on dynamic allocation everywhere in your code | 16:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: For modest use, there is | 16:15 |
| * lcuk has dynamic arrays in some liqbase components - there is still the point where in new you have to do the same thing malloc would do | 16:15 | |
| CosmoHill | almost htere | 16:15 |
| lcuk | "if usedelements+1 > availableelements realloc(arraY) | 16:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The limiting factor for slab allocators is knowing the selection of object sizes you will be allocating. For arrays, the limitign factor is knowing the average array size. This one is way easier to predict. | 16:16 |
| CosmoHill | http://black-flag.co.uk/files/class-map.png | 16:16 |
| lcuk | realloc causes god to kill kittens | 16:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: that is why I am not using it. | 16:16 |
| lcuk | because if your array is 4000 items byval, you have to coy the entire thing | 16:16 |
| CosmoHill | my friend almost hit a fessent the other day | 16:16 |
| lcuk | and then make sure all the pointers your functions might have held are changed over | 16:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But my array is never 4000 items and it is rarely byval (or it contains ints) | 16:17 |
| lcuk | and any references are updated | 16:17 |
| RST38h | And no, I am not giving anyone references directly to array elements | 16:17 |
| lcuk | RST38h, so your array is not an object collection | 16:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: It is an array. | 16:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I do not know what "object collection" is. | 16:17 |
| lcuk | of course its an array | 16:18 |
| lcuk | but its not a collection of actors in a game | 16:18 |
| RST38h | It may be | 16:18 |
| CosmoHill | kudos to anyone who understands my class map | 16:18 |
| Zeikko | I can't even see the picture | 16:20 |
| CosmoHill | oh | 16:20 |
| lcuk | i can | 16:20 |
| Zeikko | Firefox says there are errors in the file :o | 16:20 |
| Zeikko | Now it started rendering slowly | 16:21 |
| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/class-map.png | 16:21 |
| Zeikko | So nvm, works now | 16:21 |
| CosmoHill | hmm, it's 2MB | 16:21 |
| RST38h | looks kinda messy | 16:22 |
| RST38h | maybe draw class relations and data relations in separate graphs? | 16:22 |
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| Zeikko | Grah, studying for an UML exam is dead boring :S | 16:26 |
| * CosmoHill pets Zeikko | 16:27 | |
| CosmoHill | lecturer B goes "lecturer A has taught you about this in UML" and we all go "ermm, no" | 16:27 |
| Zeikko | That happens every now and then when teachers don't know what each other are teaching :P | 16:28 |
| Stskeeps | and assuming students actually learnt something | 16:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:28 |
| CosmoHill | I got an A for UML but i have no idea how | 16:30 |
| Zeikko | Our UML lecturer gave us an assignment to create multiple UML graphs of a coding project we're doing on another course. Too bad he didn't know we are coding robots in the course nowadays. So here we are making use case graphs of a robot | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | sex bot UML? | 16:31 |
| CosmoHill | that would explain the hour and hours of out of school studying | 16:32 |
| lcuk | and blindness/hairy palms etc | 16:32 |
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| thiago_home | I have been working with C++ for over 4 years now | 16:42 |
| thiago_home | the last time I used UML was in the University | 16:42 |
| lcuk | lol thiago_home im sure you mean, "we use best design practices every day and i happily construct and modify UML diagrams during my coffee break" :D | 16:43 |
| Zeikko | Way to go :) | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | thiago_home: you have people who do UML for you instead? ;) | 16:43 |
| Zeikko | I use UML at work sometimes though. | 16:44 |
| thiago_home | Stskeeps: no | 16:45 |
| thiago_home | Stskeeps: there is no UML | 16:45 |
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| CosmoHill | thiago_home: I've been working with C++ since febuary | 16:46 |
| thiago_home | UML is for consultants to show that they are doing some work | 16:47 |
| Zeikko | Well, i'm a consultant :D | 16:47 |
| * thiago_home was a consultant too | 16:49 | |
| thiago_home | but I only did powerpoints and shareholder valuation analyses | 16:49 |
| * CosmoHill goes out shopping | 16:51 | |
| Terje_ | "French is for chefs to show that they are doing some work" | 16:51 |
| Terje_ | UML can be used to convey something, just as any other language that both speaker and listener understand. | 16:52 |
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| thiago_home | true | 16:52 |
| thiago_home | but in my work experience, I've never seen it used to convey any message | 16:53 |
| Terje_ | I have seen plenty of messages in UML. | 16:54 |
| Terje_ | But I guess that's not something you can argue about. :-) | 16:54 |
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| Votan | Still no MeeGo image for Netbooks with enabled GUI available ? | 17:57 |
| thiago_home | I haven't seen any announcements | 17:59 |
| thiago_home | have you? | 17:59 |
| timeless_mbp | I hereby announce that: | 18:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i have nothing to announce! | 18:00 |
| leinir | Yay, nonannouncements! :D | 18:01 |
| thiago_home | a paradox! | 18:01 |
| timeless_mbp | hey, that was an announcement | 18:01 |
| leinir | They're almost as good as announcements that you'll be making an announcement ;) | 18:01 |
| thiago_home | doesn't compute! doesn't compute! | 18:01 |
| javispedro | roger roger | 18:01 |
| Votan | Ok, so no announcmment, no img :( I hoped there might be an onofficial dogfood link :> | 18:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | s/onofficial/unofficial/ | 18:23 |
| timeless_mbp | well, meego uses rpm | 18:23 |
| timeless_mbp | so you can squat on the repo and watch it for updates | 18:23 |
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| CosmoHill | are serial / console ports RJ11 or RJ54? | 18:26 |
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| phil2211 | Hello, does anybody know if meego is looking the same as moblin or is a new concept in plan? | 19:08 |
| GAN900 | phil2211, define "MeeGo" | 19:10 |
| GAN900 | and "looking" | 19:11 |
| phil2211 | Sorry i mean MeeGo for Atom based Netbooks | 19:11 |
| GAN900 | Mostly, yes, apparently. | 19:11 |
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| GAN900 | The current builds are marked for internal use only, however, so only NDA people can really say. | 19:12 |
| phil2211 | I ask because i'm currently in love with moblin | 19:12 |
| GAN900 | Open . . . open . . . open. Not--not--not. | 19:13 |
| phil2211 | OK, thanks for this answer. | 19:13 |
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| TSCHAKeee | GAN900: so overall, what was your feeling about the show? | 19:15 |
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| TSCHAKeee | just a bunch of suits stroking each other? | 19:15 |
| GAN900 | TSCHAKeee, mixed | 19:16 |
| GAN900 | Very few suits | 19:16 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok | 19:16 |
| CosmoHill | I may not have done any work today | 19:17 |
| CosmoHill | but I got new shoes :) | 19:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | the whole vibe is just | 19:17 |
| GAN900 | Mostly engineers and community types. | 19:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | weird | 19:17 |
| GAN900 | Yeah | 19:17 |
| GAN900 | Lot of talk about open that's backed up by very little substantive. | 19:17 |
| TSCHAKeee | yup | 19:18 |
| GAN900 | Even in areas where it should be easy. Like the website. | 19:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah | 19:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | did anyone notice | 19:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | they made the forum hard to get to? | 19:18 |
| GAN900 | Imad said arch discussions are open during his talk on Wednesday | 19:18 |
| Votan | there's a forum ? | 19:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | case...and....point.... | 19:18 |
| GAN900 | The technical panel on Thursday says that's not the case | 19:19 |
| GAN900 | and probably wont be until November | 19:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | *facepalm* | 19:19 |
| GAN900 | Votan, http://forum.meego.com | 19:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | try getting to the forum from the main site | 19:19 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's buried on a page under community, in a link in the middle of the page. | 19:20 |
| TSCHAKeee | they gave it a forum page, yup | 19:20 |
| TSCHAKeee | with a useless blurb | 19:20 |
| TSCHAKeee | and a link to the actual forum | 19:20 |
| TSCHAKeee | *scratch-head* | 19:20 |
| TSCHAKeee | ohhhkay | 19:20 |
| GAN900 | TSCHAKeee, I heard a lot of the same things I've been hearing in Maemo for the past 5 years | 19:21 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok so the same things i've been hearing too | 19:21 |
| TSCHAKeee | ok | 19:21 |
| * TSCHAKeee takes a deep breath | 19:21 | |
| GAN900 | "It'll be better soon", "Just wait a bit", "That'll change RSN". . . . | 19:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | i have a very distinct feeling that the community people are being stopped by corporate flypaper | 19:22 |
| GAN900 | TSCHAKeee, yeah. . . . | 19:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | put in a permanent holding pattern because quite frankly, they don't know what the fuck to do | 19:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | (They being the execs) | 19:23 |
| TSCHAKeee | but yet, they continue with this banner | 19:23 |
| GAN900 | Very few people seem to know what the answers are | 19:23 |
| TSCHAKeee | let's ask Ari | 19:23 |
| GAN900 | Well, technical details are moving forward | 19:23 |
| TSCHAKeee | :P | 19:23 |
| GAN900 | pfft | 19:23 |
| GAN900 | Ari | 19:23 |
| GAN900 | Living in another dimension. | 19:23 |
| lcuk | it would be cool to do something like that | 19:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | I mean, I even feel a little orphaned | 19:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | with my N900 | 19:24 |
| thiago_home | Ari is not the problem | 19:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | quite possibly, the best portable computing device i've ever used | 19:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | and it's being..relegated..as a developer brick. | 19:24 |
| GAN900 | Lot of enthusiasm going out the airlock | 19:24 |
| lcuk | TSCHAKeee, "simply awesome" | 19:24 |
| thiago_home | TSCHAKeee: what did you want it to be? | 19:25 |
| thiago_home | it is a developer brick | 19:25 |
| * TSCHAKeee ignores the spoiled little brats who thought it was a souped up N97 | 19:25 | |
| thiago_home | it's got a horrible form-factor | 19:25 |
| lcuk | TSCHAKeee, maemo n900 owners map, http://pininthemap.com/maemo add yourself :) | 19:25 |
| thiago_home | I can't use it in portrait mode | 19:25 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, blah blah blah | 19:25 |
| GAN900 | Best mobile device I've used in my life | 19:25 |
| Votan | i might get crucified now, but I love my Android Handset :> | 19:26 |
| thiago_home | I've had better | 19:26 |
| thiago_home | it's a good device | 19:26 |
| thiago_home | but I can't use it with one hand only | 19:26 |
| lcuk | could the others run qt? | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, just because YOU don't like it, does't justify Nokia dropping support like a ton of bricks. | 19:26 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, the n900 is software related | 19:26 |
| thiago_home | GAN900: it wasn't meant to be supported | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, clearly not a use-case requirement for everybody. :) | 19:26 |
| thiago_home | GAN900: it was made to be like that | 19:26 |
| lcuk | make a decent portrait browser | 19:26 |
| lcuk | its not like its impossible | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | which is why Nokia is a stupid company | 19:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | thiago_home: well then...somebody forgot to tell the marketing dept | 19:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | who ran full tilt with it | 19:27 |
| thiago_home | TSCHAKeee: marketing knows very well | 19:27 |
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| thiago_home | they did NOT run full tilt with it | 19:27 |
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| TSCHAKeee | everywhere BUT the US | 19:27 |
| * GAN900 is bored with excuses from Nokia and Intel people. | 19:27 | |
| thiago_home | you'll see what full tilt means when there is a device that is that | 19:27 |
| GAN900 | Funny like, I felt turbocharged after BCN. | 19:27 |
| thiago_home | GAN900: and I'm fed up with your whining. | 19:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | ultimately, I love the device | 19:27 |
| GAN900 | I just feel drained after this. | 19:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | I really do | 19:27 |
| thiago_home | you have a point in many places, but you whine too much. | 19:27 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, meh. | 19:28 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, look at it from my perspective. | 19:28 |
| thiago_home | I do | 19:28 |
| thiago_home | but you don't look from ours | 19:28 |
| GAN900 | Ha | 19:28 |
| thiago_home | believe me, I hate the slowness | 19:28 |
| GAN900 | You don't know me, then. :) | 19:28 |
| lcuk | thiago_home, this device is anything but slow | 19:28 |
| thiago_home | but this slow is as fast as it can move | 19:29 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: not the device | 19:29 |
| thiago_home | the companies, the corporate structures | 19:29 |
| TSCHAKeee | he's talking about the red tape | 19:29 |
| TSCHAKeee | yeah | 19:29 |
| lcuk | dont you remember | 19:29 |
| lcuk | throw it over the wall | 19:29 |
| lcuk | :) | 19:29 |
| thiago_home | I had an idea about something open source, three weeks ago | 19:29 |
| thiago_home | now everyone wants to align | 19:29 |
| thiago_home | come up with a good story | 19:29 |
| thiago_home | then legal wants to give some input | 19:29 |
| thiago_home | then we go back to square one | 19:29 |
| thiago_home | and then we have to run everything past Corporate Comms before announcing | 19:30 |
| slavik | thiago_home: "legal" is the problem :P | 19:30 |
| thiago_home | what the open source people had agreed would take a week, will take at least 5 | 19:30 |
| slavik | hahaha | 19:30 |
| lcuk | and whilst all this is going on, in maemo we have developers involved in open projects and interacting with the community | 19:30 |
| lcuk | apps which in their fields are advancing qt code | 19:30 |
| thiago_home | oh, now they want a face-to-face workshop too | 19:30 |
| lcuk | running well on the n900 | 19:31 |
| thiago_home | which given the current travel... chaos... may not happen | 19:31 |
| slavik | any idea if Nokia will a phone that is better than n900 with meego ... as in: no crappy 3 row keyboard? | 19:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | nokia will make better devices, yes | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | i like the keyboard quite a bit though | 19:31 |
| thiago_home | slavik: there will be MeeGo-based devices | 19:31 |
| GAN900 | slavik, may very well have no keyboard at all. | 19:31 |
| slavik | GAN900: even better | 19:31 |
| thiago_home | I can't say anything about the number of rows in a keyboard | 19:31 |
| slavik | best keyboard evar: e90 ;) | 19:31 |
| thiago_home | that's a 5-row keyboard | 19:32 |
| thiago_home | but the E90 is a brick | 19:32 |
| slavik | yes | 19:32 |
| thiago_home | especially if you get it in red colour (brick colour) | 19:32 |
| slavik | thiago_home: I got mine in the dark coffee color | 19:32 |
| slavik | thiago_home: I am 6'2, so for me, e90 is just about right size ;) | 19:32 |
| slavik | Sharp's sidekick for tmobile is the best screen/keyboard design IMO | 19:33 |
| slavik | Nokia should rip that off ... hint hint wink wink | 19:33 |
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| thiago_home | hardware designed today will see the light of day in 2011/2012 | 19:34 |
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| GAN900 | Five tshirts and an N1 has made my luggage too damn full. | 19:34 |
| slavik | throw in snapdragon, accelerometers, touchscreen ... DONE! | 19:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | why is everybody so big on the snapdragon? | 19:34 |
| thiago_home | I've received an email already for the device that will replace the device that will replace the N900 | 19:34 |
| slavik | TSCHAKeee: it's a 1GHz ARM | 19:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | the OMAP4 kicks its ass. | 19:34 |
| slavik | TSCHAKeee: haven't read about that one ... | 19:35 |
| Zeikko | Gah, enough of fiddling with C++ for tonight, gotta go to jog. | 19:35 |
| TSCHAKeee | slavik: dude, do some systems design sometime. not everything is about clock speed. | 19:35 |
| GAN900 | thiago_home, just, fyi, half the reason I pushed the community council idea was because people didn't see the issues from Nokia's side and I wanted to help with that. :) | 19:35 |
| slavik | TSCHAKeee: omap4 ... dualcore? | 19:35 |
| thiago_home | slavik: OMAP4 is dualcore, yes | 19:36 |
| * ShadowJK hasn't seen any meaningful benchmarks comparing omap3, snapdragon and omap4 either :) | 19:36 | |
| TSCHAKeee | slavik: yes. | 19:36 |
| slavik | I am sold ^^ | 19:36 |
| GAN900 | slavik, 1GHz doesn't tell the full story. | 19:36 |
| GAN900 | slavik, it's slower in other areas than the OMAP3. | 19:36 |
| thiago_home | GAN900: and I thank you for that | 19:36 |
| * ShadowJK is guessing the device that replaces the device that replaces N900 might possibly perhaps have omap4 | 19:36 | |
| TSCHAKeee | and do keep in mind slavik, that vendors often do not wind the clock all the way up | 19:36 |
| slavik | ipc is lower? | 19:36 |
| thiago_home | problem is battery life / power consumption | 19:36 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, let's hope. . . . | 19:36 |
| slavik | or longer pipeline? | 19:37 |
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| GAN900 | ShadowJK, otherwise Apple is going to leave Nokia in the dust. | 19:37 |
| GAN900 | slavik, more cache | 19:37 |
| slavik | ahh | 19:37 |
| GAN900 | slavik, better/faster parts in the rest of the SoC. | 19:37 |
| slavik | I see | 19:37 |
| ShadowJK | omap4 is definitely more ipc | 19:38 |
| slavik | this reminds me of the old p4 vs athlon performance war | 19:38 |
| ShadowJK | but memory bandwidth has even bigger impact I think | 19:38 |
| TSCHAKeee | slavik: embedded systems design is more about balance | 19:38 |
| slavik | TSCHAKeee: right ... since there is a battery involved | 19:38 |
| slavik | TSCHAKeee: but isn't embedded systems desgined somewhat simpler due to the simplicity of the components? and you're not chasing raw horsepower like desktops/servers | 19:39 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's something more akin to the old Amiga systems design | 19:40 |
| TSCHAKeee | balance the load out to coprocessors | 19:40 |
| slavik | TSCHAKeee: I think that's before I was born ... | 19:40 |
| TSCHAKeee | although memory speeds are very different now | 19:40 |
| slavik | wow ... hardware aes/sha1 ... sounds fun | 19:41 |
| slavik | TSCHAKeee: I am looking at http://focus.ti.com//general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12843&contentId=53243#chipDiagram | 19:42 |
| slavik | is that gray block in the center all the omap4 soc? | 19:42 |
| GAN900 | yes | 19:43 |
| GAN900 | Red area is the cores | 19:43 |
| GAN900 | outside that, the interfaces. | 19:43 |
| slavik | GAN900: the video processor is part of SoC? | 19:44 |
| GAN900 | Yes | 19:44 |
| GAN900 | Thus, "SoC". :P | 19:44 |
| slavik | GAN900: I know ... to me, SoC was just a concept/idea before ... nothing I could actually see. | 19:44 |
| ShadowJK | also 3d gpu, display subsystem is in there | 19:44 |
| slavik | what about the controllers for video/input ... those are part of SoC, too, right? | 19:45 |
| GAN900 | CPU, GPU, DSP, camera processing, etc. | 19:45 |
| ShadowJK | IVA3 is the video encode/decode accel | 19:45 |
| GAN900 | Depends on the SoC | 19:45 |
| GAN900 | TWL4030 is involved with some stuff for OMAP3 | 19:45 |
| ShadowJK | it does voltage regulation mostly | 19:46 |
| ShadowJK | also has some GPIOs and i2c | 19:46 |
| ShadowJK | slavik, this thing seems to have HDMI on the SoC :P | 19:47 |
| GAN900 | weeee | 19:47 |
| slavik | ShadowJK: I am already drooling | 19:47 |
| ShadowJK | as well as interface for normal displays | 19:47 |
| GAN900 | Hope the plans have changed from the Summit | 19:47 |
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| GAN900 | N900+1 using OMAP3 would be unfortunate | 19:47 |
| slavik | this is why I wish I could stop time ... to play with things like this. | 19:47 |
| GAN900 | What with Apple likely to be pushing Cortex A9 stuff for the iPhone 4G | 19:48 |
| javispedro | GAN900: consider battery life... | 19:48 |
| slavik | I wonder if the E90 could handle meego | 19:48 |
| GAN900 | javispedro, potentially better with OMAP4 | 19:48 |
| GAN900 | depending on the job, anyway. | 19:48 |
| javispedro | yes yes, I remember that too from OMAP3 =) | 19:48 |
| ShadowJK | slavik, some older SoCs might be a bit funny and droolworthy too, like Samsung s3c64xx, it can do emboss and sepia effects in hardware (for cameras) :-) | 19:48 |
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| slavik | ShadowJK: I think my hp ipa has that ... | 19:49 |
| slavik | ipaq* | 19:49 |
| slavik | it's a piece of junk though | 19:49 |
| slavik | mostly due to the fact that windows is on it | 19:49 |
| ShadowJK | s3c64xx has roughy the same hardware video decode capabilities as N900 :-) | 19:49 |
| ShadowJK | which is kinda amusing considering the samsung soc is a much older design | 19:50 |
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| ShadowJK | still ages before an omap4 beagleboard though I guess :-( | 19:50 |
| slavik | omap4 at 1GHz ... | 19:52 |
| TSCHAKeee | keep in mind that cell phone manufacturers will not clock it up that high | 19:52 |
| slavik | which is why they suck :( | 19:52 |
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| slavik | I wonder how difficult it is to build my own phone ... | 19:52 |
| RST38h | slavik: Two plastic cups and a piece of string. | 19:53 |
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| ShadowJK | Sometimes it's worth it to clock it high... race to idle | 19:53 |
| RST38h | That easy | 19:53 |
| slavik | RST38h: I should do that ... | 19:53 |
| ShadowJK | sometimes it isn't. like if you have adobe flash installed. it grabs everything it can get anyway | 19:53 |
| ShadowJK | ;) | 19:54 |
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| slavik | flash is teh deveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel | 19:54 |
| javispedro | omg o/c my omap4 to 30Ghz | 19:54 |
| GAN900 | Power management is too complicated | 19:54 |
| GAN900 | We need better batteries so we can all stop hurting our brains thinking about it. | 19:54 |
| slavik | just pack a bike with a generator | 19:55 |
| RST38h | Yea, we need nuclear batteries Popular Mechanics promised us in the 50s | 19:55 |
| ShadowJK | even with nearly double size battery the N900 can burn it in about 3 hours :) | 19:55 |
| RST38h | Puncture or short that one, and a whole lot of bunny people will descend on you from black helicopters | 19:55 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, if we don't nuclear power something, how is Fallout 3 going to come true? :) | 19:56 |
| lcuk | RST38h, a vodka power cell would suit me | 19:56 |
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| lcuk | tested in russia for centrues | 19:56 |
| lcuk | centuries | 19:56 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Dunno what you are doing, but 5h is the shortest run time I have got | 19:56 |
| slavik | lcuk: I'd drink the battery ;) | 19:56 |
| RST38h | GAN: Well, North Korea to the rescue... | 19:56 |
| lcuk | slavik, you could just buy it a round whilst at the pub | 19:56 |
| lcuk | to top it up | 19:56 |
| slavik | sounds good | 19:57 |
| lcuk | it would be cool to get working | 19:57 |
| RST38h | GAN: Although I kinda suspect they will serve Japanese anime fans first. | 19:57 |
| slavik | it'll be the most successful phone in russia and estern europe | 19:57 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, damn! | 19:57 |
| RST38h | Actually, ethanol power cells are no science fiction | 19:57 |
| lcuk | i know RST38h i want a real one | 19:57 |
| lcuk | not in lab | 19:57 |
| lcuk | find out just what the problem is | 19:58 |
| lcuk | keep its resv under 100mls | 19:58 |
| lcuk | and you can even take it on a plane | 19:58 |
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| ShadowJK | rst38h: Gps on (location-test-gui or something, ovi maps turns it off after loss of focus), cpu at full load with some number crunching at low priority, watch video, screen full brightness. Download the next video on hsdpa. | 19:58 |
| ShadowJK | This is over 1A draw | 19:58 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: The number crunching part is probably the key | 19:58 |
| slavik | ShadowJK: in that case, McGuyver can make it detonate and take out baddies. | 19:59 |
| RST38h | Because the video alone seems to drain it in 5h or so | 19:59 |
| ShadowJK | nah, cpu isn't that much | 19:59 |
| slavik | it's the wireless | 19:59 |
| ShadowJK | hspa alone is about 500 | 19:59 |
| RST38h | ah hspa | 19:59 |
| * RST38h isn't connected 100% of time | 19:59 | |
| slavik | my understanding is that in mobile devices, the screen and the wireless connections are biggest in power consumption | 19:59 |
| RST38h | No need really | 20:00 |
| RST38h | slavik: not exactly | 20:00 |
| ShadowJK | in "normal" use the screen is probably a large part, where normal is staring at the screen doing nothing | 20:00 |
| RST38h | slavik: You *can* max out the cpu in such a way that it will exceed screen consumption | 20:00 |
| RST38h | slavik: especially in LED-lit screens | 20:01 |
| RST38h | slavik: And by "wireless" we may mean different things in different modes | 20:01 |
| RST38h | slavik: above-mentioned 3G cell service is a hog | 20:01 |
| ShadowJK | Right now, screen at second brightest setting is <=160mA | 20:01 |
| RST38h | But WiFi, especially with power saving, is pretty harmless | 20:01 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: We have got LED-lit screen, right? | 20:02 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 20:02 |
| RST38h | Surprisingly, Bluetooth is harmless too | 20:02 |
| ShadowJK | When idle, sure | 20:02 |
| RST38h | GPRS does suck power though | 20:02 |
| RST38h | less than 3g but still | 20:02 |
| wazd | GSM FTW | 20:02 |
| ShadowJK | if you push a megabit over bluetooth it'll eat power | 20:02 |
| RST38h | wazd: ironically, yes :) | 20:02 |
| wazd | RST38h: I knew the answer :) | 20:03 |
| ShadowJK | iirc streaming 128kbit music on edge eats about 240mA (and that includes cpu for playback) | 20:03 |
| wazd | and 2G/3G switching too btw | 20:03 |
| ShadowJK | about double or more on 3g | 20:03 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: urgh | 20:03 |
| RST38h | We can safely discard that scenario here | 20:03 |
| wazd | RST38h: 1 trip in moscow metro - half of e63's battery's dead | 20:03 |
| RST38h | wazd: What the hell are you doing there? | 20:04 |
| wazd | RST38h: it just switching between 3G and 2G networks constantly | 20:04 |
| RST38h | wazd: Oh shit | 20:05 |
| ShadowJK | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption <- some data collected by speedevil.. I don't remember if these values are adjusted... if they aren't then multiplying by 1.5x gets closer to truth. you can see relative magnitude anyway | 20:05 |
| RST38h | wazd: something must be wrong. | 20:05 |
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| wazd | RST38h: dunno, but I've turned 3G mode off | 20:06 |
| wazd | RST38h: don't use it anyway | 20:06 |
| thiago_home | that's one of the reasons why building the UI on OpenGL is a powersaver | 20:06 |
| RST38h | wazd: evil | 20:07 |
| ShadowJK | I get significantly higher power consumption on 3g than SpeedEvil does, but 3g power drain is very operator dependant too :) | 20:07 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Depends on ground towers | 20:08 |
| lcuk | its location based, if you are mobile of course the radio is going to work harder than if you are static | 20:08 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, also network configuration | 20:08 |
| ShadowJK | 3g timers :/ | 20:08 |
| slavik | is there such a thing as an omap4 dev board? | 20:15 |
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| RST38h | slavik: Yes. | 20:16 |
| ShadowJK | Can you as a private person buy one? | 20:17 |
| slavik | ShadowJK: that's my question :) | 20:17 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Probably yes, but probably you do not have enough money | 20:17 |
| RST38h | A moment | 20:18 |
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| user__ | test from xchat | 20:19 |
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| GAN900 | slavik, TI just demoed a kit | 20:20 |
| GAN900 | I bet $2k, though. | 20:20 |
| slavik | :( | 20:20 |
| GAN900 | slavik, give it 6-8 months. | 20:20 |
| slavik | I guess I wait for a real phone then | 20:20 |
| javispedro | lol smp already | 20:20 |
| * javispedro waits for the omap6 with 14 unused cores out of 16. | 20:21 | |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: YOu want OMAP Blaze MDP: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12013&contentId=4578 | 20:21 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: You mean you can make use of two cores? | 20:21 |
| javispedro | one will be misused for drm, of course. | 20:22 |
| RST38h | GAN: $2k is on the low side | 20:22 |
| RST38h | GAN: Bet $4k-$8k, depending on how uch stuff is there and how rare these kits are | 20:22 |
| slavik | all I want is an awesome phone with a Perl interpreter :) | 20:23 |
| RST38h | Themanufacturer requests your contact information, meaning the board is still fresh | 20:23 |
| javispedro | aka über expensive. | 20:23 |
| RST38h | slavik: Won't n900 be enough? | 20:23 |
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| slavik | RST38h: it has a crappy keyboard imo | 20:23 |
| slavik | e90 = best phone nokia made | 20:24 |
| * RST38h sighs | 20:24 | |
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| ShadowJK | yes well, n900 cpu is like twice as fast as e90's cpu | 20:30 |
| slavik | true | 20:31 |
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| Ash | build wise e90 was spectacular. just need more power under the hood than s60 could provide. | 20:40 |
| ShadowJK | buildwise early e90 keyboard keys damaged the display. | 20:41 |
| Ash | yep. forgot about that. its did that to mine. | 20:45 |
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| slavik | ShadowJK: I have the "later" version where it didn't :) | 21:02 |
| slavik | I really like the sidekick hardware design | 21:02 |
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| slavik | so, how "open" will meego be to consumers? | 23:21 |
| CosmoHill | this open |o| | 23:21 |
| slavik | :( | 23:21 |
| CosmoHill | It thought it would be this \o/ open | 23:21 |
| slavik | nah, I want something \ o / | 23:21 |
| slavik | that open | 23:21 |
| CosmoHill | better than some companys | 23:22 |
| slavik | but will there be a possibility of root shell and having console apps, like iwconfig and such run? | 23:22 |
| CosmoHill | some companies are this open: 8==> suck it | 23:22 |
| slavik | or nmap ... | 23:22 |
| slavik | CosmoHill: like verizon? | 23:22 |
| CosmoHill | maybe | 23:22 |
| CosmoHill | i know it's an american company | 23:23 |
| slavik | CosmoHill: more importantly, they're a phone company | 23:23 |
| slavik | CosmoHill: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/955486/ | 23:23 |
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| thiago_home | I don't think anything has been announced about forcing ODMs to give root shells | 23:24 |
| thiago_home | Nokia will probably do it for its devices | 23:25 |
| thiago_home | netbooks probably will have root shells too | 23:25 |
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| thiago_home | the rest, your guess is as good as mine | 23:25 |
| CosmoHill | lol | 23:25 |
| slavik | thiago_home: I am not interested in netbooks, until they get 12hrs battery life :P | 23:25 |
| thiago_home | they already do | 23:25 |
| slavik | when turned on | 23:25 |
| thiago_home | yes | 23:26 |
| slavik | err? | 23:26 |
| slavik | care to point me to a model? | 23:26 |
| slavik | that new asus eee tablet looks awesome | 23:26 |
| thiago_home | the Nokia Booklet 3G is reported to have 12 hours of battery | 23:26 |
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| slavik | only with AT&T? no possiblity of standalone? | 23:27 |
| slavik | and I want to install Linux on it | 23:27 |
| thiago_home | don't install Linux on those | 23:27 |
| slavik | how come? | 23:27 |
| thiago_home | there are some missing drivers | 23:27 |
| thiago_home | it won't work | 23:27 |
| CosmoHill | in the UK i think we have a law meaning you can't have more than 25% of a market | 23:27 |
| slavik | for the 3g modem? | 23:27 |
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| slavik | CosmoHill: british chicks are hot ... | 23:28 |
| thiago_home | I'm repeating what I heard | 23:28 |
| slavik | or at least sounds hot ... | 23:28 |
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| CosmoHill | if you say so | 23:28 |
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| slavik | thiago_home: I see | 23:28 |
| slavik | CosmoHill: or at least the ones who work at C&W | 23:28 |
| CosmoHill | the ones that work a C&W all have indian accents :/ | 23:28 |
| slavik | CosmoHill: not any that have called my company | 23:29 |
| CosmoHill | at some point i will just go "SEND ME A FUCKING ENGINEER" | 23:29 |
| slavik | sounds like you've been calling BSNL | 23:29 |
| CosmoHill | We have Demon Internet which is owned by C&W | 23:29 |
| slavik | I see | 23:30 |
| slavik | BSNL is worse ;) | 23:30 |
| CosmoHill | i think what went wrong with our internet was that the cable came unplugged at the exchange | 23:31 |
| slavik | I wonder who done it ... | 23:31 |
| slavik | ;) | 23:31 |
| CosmoHill | I've been told to upgrade my router from v3 to v5, that's hardware, not software | 23:31 |
| CosmoHill | I've been told to go online and download the latest updates.... | 23:31 |
| CosmoHill | I've been told that my router doesn't support ADSL2+ despite out connection being that for over 3 months without problems | 23:32 |
| slavik | rofl | 23:33 |
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