| lbt | Hah: so that bit of the roadmap isn't discussed in the open then? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lbt | which seems odd | 00:00 |
| javispedro | so its just a naming issue? | 00:00 |
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| lbt | it would be nice to understand which parts of the arch are being focused on and when | 00:01 |
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| Hah | Well, it more about how different gategories are introduced | 00:01 |
| Hah | when they are | 00:02 |
| lbt | well, I didn't see much detail on the slides ... too quick | 00:02 |
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| lbt | so yes, it'd be good to see the discussions about what blocks are done when | 00:02 |
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| lbt | to help understand too which people are working on what | 00:02 |
| lbt | out here, for example, I have no clue who's working on ARM... so my Smart Q7 is languishing | 00:03 |
| lbt | and don't know what the ARM kernel guys are up to etc etc | 00:03 |
| Hah | blaim me if you will .. | 00:04 |
| lbt | heh... have they gagged the LF guy? | 00:04 |
| lbt | Hah: no, not at all | 00:04 |
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| Hah | I can then ask if others like to be blaimed as well ;) | 00:04 |
| lbt | you were just talking :) | 00:04 |
| lbt | we need to blame the team leaders who don't communicate on open lists | 00:05 |
| lbt | maybe they can't ... | 00:05 |
| lbt | but Ari says they can... | 00:05 |
| Hah | Our aim is get us much of N900 specifig stuff to upstream as we can now | 00:05 |
| lbt | BTW, what's your role if you don't mind? | 00:06 |
| Hah | I am currently N900 project lead.. | 00:06 |
| lbt | ah | 00:06 |
| lbt | :) | 00:06 |
| Hah | for MeeGo | 00:06 |
| lbt | heh, well, I'm talking with a community hat on atm :) | 00:06 |
| Hah | @ Nokia | 00:06 |
| lbt | right... so I should collar you from an internal PoV aswell | 00:06 |
| lbt | with a 'nokia' hat I'm working on the internal OBS deployment and process design | 00:07 |
| lbt | so, why aren't you lot talking on external mailing lists yet? | 00:07 |
| lbt | can you even talk about it? | 00:08 |
| Hah | I quess I should | 00:08 |
| w00t_ | should talk on an external ML, or should talk about it? | 00:08 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | Hah: you here? | 00:08 |
| lbt | it would be good to see a "lead by example" there | 00:08 |
| w00t_ | lbt: definitely | 00:09 |
| Hah | It has been bit hectic | 00:09 |
| lbt | *nod* | 00:09 |
| lbt | what are the barriers? | 00:09 |
| Hah | But now it seems that eg. on kernel side things are progressing very well | 00:10 |
| lbt | Is that happening on lkml? | 00:10 |
| lbt | (I don't track that like I used to!) | 00:11 |
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| Hah | We still have some probrietary components | 00:11 |
| Hah | that are hard to get rid of | 00:11 |
| lbt | *nod* | 00:11 |
| Hah | Sometimes reasons are legal | 00:11 |
| Hah | sometimes we just haven't had time | 00:12 |
| Hah | to fix obvious issues | 00:12 |
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| w00t_ | Hah: there's probably also a component of it being a transitional period, and some people not knowing 'best practice' probably.. no?# | 00:13 |
| * w00t_ removes the hash | 00:13 | |
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| Hah | This is now transitional period | 00:14 |
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| Hah | but I am happy that now it seems we are getting somewhere | 00:14 |
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| Hah | step by step | 00:14 |
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| * w00t_ nods | 00:15 | |
| lbt | Hah: a metric for measuring success and progress: how many development posts have been made on meego-dev | 00:15 |
| lbt | maye your team could post an update for the TSG meeting each week? | 00:15 |
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| lbt | "Our progress towards working in the open. Barriers and Successes" | 00:16 |
| Hah | I think we can start to make reports directly to the list soon | 00:16 |
| * lbt grins.... that'll teach you to put your head above the parapet :) | 00:16 | |
| lbt | I hope that's a constructive suggestion though | 00:17 |
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| Hah | It seems that I will miss Imad's presentation this time | 00:21 |
| lbt | hi DawnFoster, not watching the kernel driver chats then ;) | 00:21 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: I wanted to point you at this: http://djangopeople.net/ I'd love to see a similar meegopeople | 00:22 |
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| Hah | starts to be late here in Tampere ( actually in Pirkkala ;) | 00:22 |
| Hah | I mean early | 00:22 |
| lbt | Hah: indeed! fingers crossed the recordings will be out soon | 00:22 |
| Hah | bye | 00:23 |
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| lbt | o/ | 00:23 |
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| lbt | Hah: ... and thanks for coming on here | 00:24 |
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| DawnFoster | lbt: that is cool. Let's do it :) | 00:24 |
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| lbt | DawnFoster: :) my memory is so poor I need a personal CRM | 00:24 |
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| slaine | lbt, have I missed the meego talk ? | 00:28 |
| lbt | think so | 00:28 |
| lbt | I had a power cut | 00:28 |
| lbt | caught some of Ari's talk | 00:28 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | slaine: my transcoding is in the #maemo logs | 00:29 |
| X-Fade | Yes and no. | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | Video will probably be up sometime | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | Imad should be talking in a little bit | 00:29 |
| X-Fade | Imad will come after this panel? | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | Yeah | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | Think so | 00:29 |
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| slaine | I thought the meego talk was at 1:15 to 2:00 ? | 00:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles1 | slaine: it was | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | it's 2:31 now | 00:31 |
| slaine | Ah cock | 00:31 |
| slaine | was off by 1 hour in my calcs | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | slaine: video will be up at some point | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles1 | check the #maemo logs for my transcript | 00:32 |
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| X-Fade | Yeah, typical ;) | 00:34 |
| X-Fade | oops ;) | 00:35 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:39 |
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| lbt | slaine: Imad is on now | 00:49 |
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| lbt | "the process leading up to technology selection is open" | 00:57 |
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| lbt | "The infrastructure is visible" | 00:57 |
| X-Fade | Soon[tm] | 00:57 |
| GAN800 | lol | 00:58 |
| * lbt wonders which meego Imad is talking about :D | 00:58 | |
| lbt | GAN800: ask him when the build systems will be open | 00:58 |
| lbt | and by "open" you mean when can *you* build a package on them | 00:58 |
| maclaver | I suppose the plan is for the build system to be open, there is just so much stuff to release. | 00:58 |
| lcuk | oooh slates are there now - they were missing b4 werent they | 00:59 |
| lbt | maclaver: actually I hear things that say it isn't planned to be open | 00:59 |
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| lbt | lcuk: no. see openpeak website... | 00:59 |
| lcuk | roger | 00:59 |
| lcuk | unicycle UX | 01:00 |
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| maclaver | lbt: what do you hear? | 01:01 |
| javispedro | MeeGo applicaions run on all MeeGo platforms? O.o | 01:01 |
| lbt | comments made on here about opening the OBS "medium to long term, maybe" | 01:02 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: If they use Qt pure, sure. | 01:02 |
| maclaver | This was mentioned earlier, Meego compliance. | 01:02 |
| lbt | compliance? | 01:03 |
| X-Fade | Runs after recompile is also included in that of course. | 01:03 |
| javispedro | yeah, but it's more like "build on all platforms", i fanything | 01:03 |
| maclaver | It might be possible to build applications, not classed as Meego, but targeted to specific hardware. | 01:03 |
| lcuk | is the guy in the slide writing backwards o_O | 01:03 |
| maclaver | Ari's talk mentioned compliance framework run by the linux foundation. | 01:04 |
| lcuk | maclaver, it better had be | 01:04 |
| lcuk | with multitple frameworks around and arch compliance | 01:04 |
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| javispedro | there. 10.1 does no longer exist, back to 1.0 | 01:06 |
| maclaver | I am getting it too, the apparent difference between what is being said and what is actually happening. | 01:06 |
| GAN800 | maclaver: yeah. . . . | 01:07 |
| lbt | "pump it out there" ???? | 01:07 |
| GAN800 | I plan to bug people about that tomorrow | 01:07 |
| * lbt seeks a small dribble | 01:07 | |
| lcuk | "codedrop" | 01:07 |
| maclaver | Ari and Imad say they are open and openness is important, I can take this as a statement of intent. | 01:07 |
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| javispedro | http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages | 01:09 |
| lcuk | woooot stskeeps | 01:09 |
| maclaver | Imad and Valtteri must have had their hands full getting all the new companies on board. | 01:09 |
| lcuk | o_O | 01:09 |
| lcuk | "some things"? | 01:10 |
| slaine | Who is that guy asking the question ? | 01:11 |
| GAN800 | slaine: dunno | 01:11 |
| * lcuk doesnt care bout drivers, i understand the justifications and reasons | 01:11 | |
| slaine | where's mutter-moblin source then ??? | 01:12 |
| slaine | there's talking the talk, and there's walking the walk | 01:12 |
| GAN800 | lbt: I'll poke people about build systems at the workgroup tomorrow | 01:12 |
| lbt | thanks GAN800 | 01:12 |
| GAN800 | and the fscking branding confusion. . . . | 01:12 |
| lcuk | why was camera man following the blone lady then o_O | 01:12 |
| lcuk | blonde | 01:12 |
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| lcuk | which are we gonna be seeing | 01:13 |
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| lbt | mmmm bed | 01:13 |
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| slaine | ah well, good talk by imad | 01:15 |
| slaine | was ari's much different ? | 01:16 |
| lcuk | different angle | 01:16 |
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| slaine | gah, late | 01:30 |
| slaine | time for bed | 01:30 |
| slaine | catch you all tomorrow | 01:30 |
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| koupsa | I see nothing. I am too late for the streaming ? | 01:33 |
| koupsa | hello | 01:33 |
| lbt | koupsa: yes, you missed it | 01:33 |
| koupsa | arf grr :/ | 01:34 |
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| AllenG | hi, quick question, what's the format of the meego-preview-netbook-core-20100330-001.usbimg? it's an ISO file? | 01:39 |
| koupsa | yes | 01:40 |
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| AllenG | thanks for your prompt reply! | 01:45 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | saw the new screenies of Handset UX | 02:54 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but where's the code, man?! :D | 02:54 |
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| tripzero | TSCHAKeee2, sshots? | 02:59 |
| tripzero | link? | 02:59 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | you know, we don't see code for certain things in the source repository | 03:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and then whammo, Intel decides to debut a whole bunch of UX examples at IDF | 03:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | if they keep doing this | 03:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i'm going to start to think that we're being considered second class citizens. | 03:02 |
| CosmoHill | was there a meeting tonight? | 03:08 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | no, it was skipped | 03:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i'm really starting to think | 03:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | there are two different groups of people | 03:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | there is the commercial arm | 03:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and then the community arm | 03:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and the commercial arm gets all the toys first | 03:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and then when they have had their fun, they drop it to us. | 03:09 |
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| koupsa | CosmoHill http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/collaboration-summit/live-video-streaming | 03:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | every damn embedded systems community i've ever been a part of, seems to function this way | 03:10 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | except most of the time, the community doesn't get code. | 03:10 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | i mean, it would be nice if someone could answer this | 03:11 |
| koupsa | good night | 03:11 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | are we fated to just get code long after the fact? | 03:11 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | if so, damn it, just be fucking honest about it. | 03:11 |
| ShadowJK | I think the idea is/was that after codedrop dev takes place in publicly visible repositories | 03:12 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | that was what was supposed to happen, yhes. | 03:12 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | so far, i don't see much of a difference | 03:12 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | under moblin, you had the Netbook UX, and some of the UXes were... somewhere else. | 03:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh look, moblin running on a phone | 03:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | can I see the code? .. uh.. no... sorry... | 03:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | halfway open bullshit | 03:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :( | 03:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I am irritated because i love the promise of what meego brings. | 03:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | sorry. | 03:14 |
| CosmoHill | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/source/ | 03:15 |
| * ShadowJK thought meego on phone was just $+xterm now :-) | 03:16 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | CosmoHill: trust me, been following the code drop. | 03:16 |
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| tripzero | TSCHAKeee2, i think most companies have to go through some approval process as a CYA before any code goes open | 04:12 |
| tripzero | internal* approval process | 04:12 |
| tripzero | and i think the promise of meego is to actually be more open than moblin or maemo were before it | 04:13 |
| tripzero | but again, i doubt intel nor nokia will just throw out code without doing some diligence in making sure that code is legal | 04:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | tripzero: what I do _NOT_ want to happen, is to have two distinct classes of what could be construed by suits as "employees" | 04:14 |
| tripzero | i know how you feel. i've been on both sides of the fence myself | 04:16 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | *nod* me too. | 04:17 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and i've been in the free software world for almost two decades now | 04:17 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | meego has a huge potential here, but they should not alienate the community that gave them a base to build upon. | 04:18 |
| tripzero | heh, i'm just barely two decades old :P | 04:18 |
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| tripzero | TSCHAKeee2, i'm curious to know where you found screenies of the handset ui | 04:19 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | tripzero: all over, the maemo forums, the meego forums, and | 04:20 |
| * tripzero looks | 04:20 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | a few of the news sites covering the IDF | 04:20 |
| tripzero | meh | 04:22 |
| tripzero | i'd take any screenshots with a grain of salt | 04:22 |
| tripzero | they could very well be mockups | 04:22 |
| tripzero | could be real though... | 04:23 |
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| tmzt_ | are there requirements to use a certain framework/toolkit? | 04:37 |
| CosmoHill | Qt? | 04:37 |
| CosmoHill | i duno | 04:37 |
| CosmoHill | it's 2:40am, I don't have to know | 04:37 |
| b-man | 9:37pm here | 04:38 |
| tripzero | tmzt_, the toolkit for meego IIRC is Qt, with support for Gtk/Clutter as well | 04:39 |
| tripzero | but it depends on which meego platform you are targetting | 04:39 |
| CosmoHill | i thought clutter was being removed | 04:41 |
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| tmzt_ | tripzero: is clutter also supporting gjs? | 04:54 |
| Guest1809 | Is there any document about how to use obs to build the meego? tks | 05:09 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 05:23 |
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| microlith | woohoo, completely not going to SF | 07:48 |
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| Stskeeps | morning | 09:04 |
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| iksaif | just wrote a QPriorityQueue<T> container for Qt, do someone know where I should sent it as RFC ? | 09:09 |
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| Anss| | morning | 09:16 |
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| Anss| | iksaif, maybe they know better at #Qt channel. basically it should be happened with merging request trough qt.gitorious.org | 09:20 |
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| Anss| | *thourgh | 09:23 |
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| iksaif | Anss|: thanks, I didn't know that there was a #Qt chan :) but I don't know it merge request is really the way to go, because I really wan't some comments before starting writing documentation etc for a proper merge request, but I'll ask that in #Qt :) | 09:27 |
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| slaine | morning all | 11:33 |
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| Stskeeps | morning slaine | 11:34 |
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| Khertan_Home | Hi ! | 11:41 |
| lbt | hi Khertan_Home | 11:43 |
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| Khertan_Home | Hi lbt | 11:47 |
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| slaine | Imad's talk last night was pretty good | 11:51 |
| slaine | sorry I missed Arie's | 11:51 |
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| lbt | I'm not seeing much evidence of the talk content | 11:53 |
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| slaine | lbt, what do you mean ? | 11:55 |
| lbt | well, how much development discussion do you see on -dev? | 11:57 |
| lbt | how much discussion of "the process leading up to technology selection" | 11:57 |
| lbt | which, according to Imad is happening | 11:58 |
| lbt | I'm not whinging... just saying that there are statements being made which need to be backed up | 11:58 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: Imad claimed that technology selection and architecture discussions were happening in the open, on meego-dev? | 11:59 |
| lbt | his words " | 12:00 |
| lbt | The infrastructure is visible | 12:00 |
| lbt | the process leading up to technology selection is open | 12:00 |
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| lbt | who here can see the build systems? | 12:00 |
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| lbt | who knows of any discussion on any technology selection? | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | well, besides rpm vs deb, which happened after the fact | 12:01 |
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| * lbt should have put "pending" :) | 12:02 | |
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| Jaffa | lbt: vBulletin on meego-community is the only tech selection I've seen | 12:06 |
| lbt | heh | 12:07 |
| lbt | "Welcome to MeeGo"... | 12:08 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: root pw | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | meego? | 12:09 |
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| lbt | y | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | meego | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:10 |
| lbt | mmm case? | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | moblin if meego fails | 12:11 |
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| lbt | "sweetie, your roots are showing" | 12:12 |
| lbt | but probably only Jaffa will get that | 12:12 |
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| slaine | lbt, Yes, hence my comment last night, they're talking the talk, but not yet walking the walk | 12:13 |
| lbt | well, with a community hat on, our role is to prod them... hard :) | 12:14 |
| slaine | yeah | 12:14 |
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| slaine | I'm getting tired of coming across as "the bad guy" though. complaining is that rewarding | 12:14 |
| leinir | and repeatedly | 12:14 |
| Stskeeps | slaine, lbt, Jaffa: http://pastebin.com/P4N5epp7 | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | (work in progress) | 12:15 |
| slaine | Stskeeps:looks good | 12:17 |
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| slaine | The frustrating part of this is that, all the engineers in Intel and Nokia know all this | 12:18 |
| slaine | I'm sure Imad and Arie know all this | 12:18 |
| slaine | They certainly seem to when talking about MeeGo espouse these ideals. | 12:18 |
| slaine | The problem is they're not (yet) enacting them | 12:18 |
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| Stskeeps | one thing is how things are supposed to be, one thing is how they are implemented by people under them | 12:18 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: I'm re-doing the RWG stuff too... can we co-ordinate l8r? | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: maybe, but i don't think they're related | 12:19 |
| slaine | lbt, should we have a RWG get together ? | 12:19 |
| lbt | mmm, true, I will use that but you won't use mine | 12:20 |
| lbt | slaine: yes | 12:20 |
| * lbt has to pop out | 12:20 | |
| lbt | l8r | 12:20 |
| slaine | I can't do it tonight, but keep me posted | 12:20 |
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| lbt | 'k | 12:21 |
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| Anss| | http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/15/nokia-and-intel-give-meego-1-0-its-first-live-performance-video/ | 12:31 |
| slaine | See, this is the kind of stuff that really makes me grumpy | 12:35 |
| slaine | If this is an open project, we don't have access to the code, then how on earth are there Vendors at IDF showing off devices running a full blown MeeGo install | 12:35 |
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| * Stskeeps nods | 12:38 | |
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| slaine | Also, it's clear from what we've seen at IDF that the Netbook and Handheld UI's are what was available for Moblin and due for Moblin 2.2 release. We had full access to the code for these back in February and then all the projects mysteriously disappeared when servers we're being migrated etc. So saying that they're not ready isn't exactly a fair statement | 12:49 |
| slaine | here I go, belly aching again | 12:49 |
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| TigerTael | slaine, carry on. | 12:50 |
| slaine | Seems fruitless to be honest | 12:50 |
| slaine | Unfortuantely, things have turned out exactly as I predicted | 12:50 |
| lbt | can we condense it into some succinct and measurable tasks for the next TSG. | 12:51 |
| lbt | chatting to the nokia n900 meego team lead last night I mentioned metrics like # of emails posted to -dev by meego teams | 12:52 |
| slaine | lbt, chances are now that they've had their "big reveal" we'll see the different repo's open up either end of this week or early next week | 12:52 |
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| lbt | honestly, the code is mainly there | 12:52 |
| lbt | the issue is the communication | 12:53 |
| slaine | lbt, I'm not so sure | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_Best_Practices_for_working_in_a_MeeGo_team - feedback wanted, especially on categories | 12:53 |
| slaine | This is exactly how Intel behaved with Moblin for the last couple of years | 12:53 |
| slaine | This was clearly calculated and planned to pan out exactly as it has | 12:54 |
| slaine | They did it with Moblin 2.0 and to a lesser extent with Moblin 2.1 | 12:54 |
| lbt | BTW, who from the LF is on here? | 12:55 |
| lbt | or -dev | 12:55 |
| lbt | or -community | 12:55 |
| lbt | ? | 12:55 |
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| slaine | lbt, that's actually one of my pilled up questions for the TSG | 12:55 |
| lbt | or is LF a branding shield? | 12:55 |
| slaine | Surely someone from LF should surely be on the TSG | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | well, ScriptRipper and dl9pf, but that probably isn't what you asked for | 12:55 |
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| lbt | true | 12:56 |
| slaine | lbt, Don't forget, Moblin was LF as well | 12:56 |
| slaine | didn't change anything, nice PR, but that's it | 12:56 |
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| Anss| | maybe there should be some social/community agreement | 12:57 |
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| ScriptRipper | Stskeeps: what was the question for me? | 13:00 |
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| Stskeeps | ScriptRipper: no question, discussing what LF represenants were in here :) | 13:01 |
| lbt | and what role the LF plays in MeeGo | 13:01 |
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| lbt | lets just say "the community would like to help Nokia and Intel audit their openness claims" | 13:02 |
| TigerTael | lol | 13:02 |
| slaine | lbt: nice | 13:03 |
| timeless_mbp | Anss|: eh? | 13:04 |
| slaine | timeless_mbp: We've been talking about open this open project is | 13:05 |
| ScriptRipper | role of LF in MeeGo: trademark owner, provider of the MeeGo infrastructure | 13:06 |
| ScriptRipper | MeeGo certification instance | 13:07 |
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| Termana | Enabler of the closed sourcedness | 13:08 |
| ScriptRipper | what do you mean? | 13:09 |
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| Termana | I mean exactly what the room has been discussing. The open project doesn't seem very open | 13:09 |
| * Stskeeps submits his proposal to mailing lists | 13:09 | |
| ScriptRipper | its currently more a technical problem | 13:09 |
| ScriptRipper | the means to open up are not in place | 13:10 |
| lbt | ScriptRipper: smtp down? | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | ScriptRipper: except this issue is not only OBS :/ | 13:10 |
| ScriptRipper | nope | 13:10 |
| Termana | Ah yes, this is like when you are suppose to email someone something and you didn't, you put it down to "technical issues". "My computer just wouldn't work!" "Did you not get the email? Email must be down today" | 13:11 |
| TigerTael | haha | 13:11 |
| Termana | "Lots of viruses!!!1111!!!!one" | 13:11 |
| ScriptRipper | but you all know that many people were hit by surprise on the 17.2.2010 | 13:11 |
| ScriptRipper | infrastructure goes to OSU still | 13:12 |
| ScriptRipper | i think all this was discussed in the TSG meetings | 13:12 |
| ScriptRipper | also the roles were discussed there | 13:13 |
| lbt | ScriptRipper: to be fair, the focus of the discussion is on the nebulous (ie we don't know who they are) Meego teams (what teams?) are not talking in public. How is this open? How is it that LF is not talking openly about the plans to move the infrastructure? | 13:13 |
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| lbt | for an "open" project there are a lot of closed discussions happening between unknown parties | 13:14 |
| slaine | ScriptRipper Also, formally open projects for the UI are now gone behind closed doors | 13:15 |
| lbt | What I think we're doing is trying to highlight these (and Stskeeps has condensed a lot of that in his post) | 13:15 |
| stefan_e | just let things settle down first, there are pobably alot of pillars that has to be set before everyone can begin to chip in on the construction. | 13:15 |
| lbt | stefan_e: actually no. | 13:16 |
| lbt | That was day 0 | 13:16 |
| lbt | or maybe day 1 | 13:16 |
| lbt | we're now having "open" TSG meetings... | 13:16 |
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| slaine | The project clearly has a defined path that we're not being involved in deciding. | 13:16 |
| stefan_e | things will open up with time I'm sure | 13:16 |
| lbt | did you see any emails on the ml between imad and valheri discussing the meeting? Or was all that done in private? | 13:16 |
| slaine | Or how to get things working for the IDF demos | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | stefan_e: except that's what we've been saying for a little too long now | 13:17 |
| lbt | slaine: not only that (which I kinda understand) but we can't therefore see the reasoning | 13:17 |
| lbt | which is not open | 13:17 |
| slaine | nod | 13:17 |
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| slaine | Or technical discussion on driver support for Tv's, Netbooks, Vending machines that where on display at IDF | 13:18 |
| lbt | are there any more ICF presentations that we can get a Q into? | 13:18 |
| slaine | Or the actual code that was used | 13:18 |
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| lbt | mmmm gotta go.... back l8r | 13:18 |
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| ScriptRipper | i am not following the openes of the project | 13:21 |
| ScriptRipper | i see it with myself: fully under stress to hold the dates | 13:21 |
| slaine | That's not why we're seeing any code though | 13:22 |
| ScriptRipper | sure | 13:22 |
| slaine | that's just called work | 13:22 |
| slaine | we all have that | 13:22 |
| ScriptRipper | we want to hold the dates and and not talk about the world at the moment | 13:22 |
| slaine | well, all those of us fortunate enough to have a job | 13:22 |
| ScriptRipper | party is always better if there is a theme for the public | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | ScriptRipper: except this pattern is going to repeat itself | 13:23 |
| ScriptRipper | and not "there will be ..." | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | there's really never going to be a time when it will be less stressful :) | 13:23 |
| slaine | ScriptRipper: What you're describing there is the "Grand Reveal" | 13:23 |
| ScriptRipper | but if the infra is open und the source is released, there is a basis to talk about | 13:23 |
| slaine | "Look what we made" | 13:23 |
| ScriptRipper | nope | 13:24 |
| ScriptRipper | who follows knows already what will come | 13:24 |
| ScriptRipper | the problem is this is the 1.0 | 13:24 |
| slaine | No, it's not 1.0 | 13:24 |
| ScriptRipper | and not a delayed 7.5 | 13:24 |
| slaine | It's Moblin 2.2++ | 13:25 |
| ScriptRipper | nope | 13:25 |
| ScriptRipper | there are substantial differences | 13:25 |
| slaine | The majority if this was already available in moblin's trunk repo back in February | 13:25 |
| Termana | ScriptRipper: This just seems like an excuse - it doesn't matter what version it is, 1.0 or 7.5, that doesn't displace the things that are happening behind closed doors which should be open | 13:25 |
| amjad | so if it is Moblin where is Nokia involved then?? i mean is maemo only for app development?? | 13:26 |
| ScriptRipper | i dont want to discuss this, because i am not responsable for: | 13:26 |
| ScriptRipper | release policy | 13:26 |
| ScriptRipper | meego distro | 13:26 |
| timeless_mbp | s/majority if/majority of/ | 13:27 |
| slaine | True, it's not your doing. I guess we're just frustrated and venting and looking for some support from LF to try and make things open, not justify the continued closedness | 13:27 |
| ScriptRipper | and i am i a real hurry | 13:27 |
| slaine | And the only reason we're so frustrated is that we WANT to be involved and make something of MeeGo. To contribute | 13:28 |
| slaine | Isn't that the essence of a community effort ? | 13:28 |
| ScriptRipper | i have to do a OBS 1.8 release | 13:28 |
| ScriptRipper | the OBS 1.8 release is e.g. done in the publuc | 13:29 |
| ScriptRipper | its also reviewed there | 13:29 |
| ScriptRipper | the Git repo is open | 13:29 |
| ScriptRipper | ... | 13:29 |
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| ScriptRipper | just to give you an example | 13:29 |
| ScriptRipper | it might be that the "great big plan" is not published | 13:29 |
| ScriptRipper | that is something for the TSG | 13:30 |
| ScriptRipper | but look at Collab Summit and Intel IDF slides | 13:30 |
| ScriptRipper | they have published lots of stuff yesterday | 13:30 |
| slaine | yes, that's our complaint | 13:30 |
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| ScriptRipper | but you have to raise your complains for this to the bosses | 13:31 |
| slaine | yes | 13:31 |
| ScriptRipper | not to the worker bee | 13:31 |
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| TigerTael | Where can I watch the IDF? | 13:31 |
| X-Fade | I feel the real problem is that this is a very top down org. And the top is busy, so nothing really comes out. | 13:31 |
| X-Fade | Projects should help here, when they are eventually setup. | 13:32 |
| ScriptRipper | there are some screenshots of UI, 2 complete slide sets about technique etc. | 13:32 |
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| Khertan_Home | Question i ve just finished downloaded the usbimg of meego for netbook to try it on my netbook | 13:33 |
| ScriptRipper | and to be quite frank to you all: i have spent 7 years in FOSS projects | 13:34 |
| Khertan_Home | how to put usbimg to an usb key ? | 13:34 |
| Khertan_Home | dd ? | 13:34 |
| ScriptRipper | i know what open is and what it means | 13:34 |
| slaine | ScriptRipper: yes, we should be ganging up on you | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | that said, let us not shoot the messenger :P | 13:35 |
| * Stskeeps knows ScriptRipper's commitment to open development and admires it. | 13:36 | |
| slaine | I apologies if I came across like that. | 13:36 |
| slaine | Oh shit, I meant to say "should not" | 13:36 |
| slaine | lol | 13:36 |
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| ScriptRipper | as a developer of a open source project you always have to problem | 13:36 |
| * slaine facepalms | 13:36 | |
| ScriptRipper | of how to channel things into code | 13:36 |
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| ScriptRipper | and: the discussions in the IRC do often *not help you with coding* | 13:37 |
| Termana | I don't think this is about ganging up on anyone. Its just about trying to get to the bottom of how much is MeeGo currently and going forward, going to be open. | 13:37 |
| ScriptRipper | because most people you talk to *are users and not programmers* | 13:37 |
| ScriptRipper | but i have the problem as a FOSS developer *to find other developers* | 13:38 |
| ScriptRipper | this has nothing to do with MeeGo | 13:38 |
| ScriptRipper | I talk more about OBS project where I am in since 2005 | 13:38 |
| ScriptRipper | and a FOSS project always needs a basis for all people to jump on | 13:39 |
| koupsaa | Khertan_Home, yes with dd dd bs=4096 if=meego... of=/dev/sdX | 13:39 |
| ScriptRipper | and to improve it | 13:39 |
| Termana | ScriptRipper: Didn't you have some sort of release you had to work on that was important, rather than try to (for no needed reason) justify yourself to us? :P | 13:39 |
| ScriptRipper | i dont justify | 13:39 |
| Khertan_Home | koupsaa, thx ... | 13:39 |
| ScriptRipper | the disussion ongoing is repeatedly hold in every FOSS project | 13:40 |
| ScriptRipper | MeeGo needs to adapt to survive | 13:40 |
| koupsaa | Khertan_Home, http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation | 13:40 |
| ScriptRipper | to the surrounding | 13:40 |
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| Khertan_Home | koupsaa: hum ... never see the wiki :) thx | 13:41 |
| koupsaa | :) | 13:41 |
| ScriptRipper | Termana: I take at the moment just the freedom also to discuss :) | 13:42 |
| ScriptRipper | as you all | 13:42 |
| koupsaa | question: i don't now if is the good place to ask but i try. Is the .po file http://translate.moblin.org/projects/p/firstboot/c/master/ that will be used for meego too? | 13:44 |
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| ScriptRipper | look into the meego source code drop if it is | 13:44 |
| koupsaa | i ll try | 13:45 |
| koupsaa | thx | 13:45 |
| ScriptRipper | ahh, maybe this package is not in the MeeGo drop | 13:45 |
| ScriptRipper | is this a UI component? | 13:45 |
| koupsaa | it's for firt install (choose language keyboard date etc) | 13:46 |
| koupsaa | fisrt | 13:46 |
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| CosmoHill | UK air space closes in 13 minutes! :o | 13:47 |
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| ScriptRipper | I think the MeeGo UI is not yet published | 13:48 |
| ScriptRipper | its rewritten compared to Moblin with QT | 13:48 |
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| koupsaa | ok i note. just wait so | 13:49 |
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| slaine | ScriptRipper: I doubt that very much | 13:54 |
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| slaine | It was announced that the UI will remain as Clutter/Mx but that developers are to develop in Qt | 13:54 |
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| cos^ | ompa porukkaa | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | moi | 14:12 |
| Anss| | o | 14:15 |
| koupsaa | ok, meego .po files are on http://translate.moblin.org/collections/c/meego/ moblin.org is what disturbed me. | 14:16 |
| koupsaa | for info ... | 14:16 |
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| alden | whoa? : ill | 14:30 |
| alden | http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/15/nokia-and-intel-give-meego-1-0-its-first-live-performance-video/ | 14:30 |
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| koupsaa | alden, thx | 14:38 |
| alden | looks like moblin with a new theme | 14:39 |
| koupsaa | yes i am agrre. is very moblin | 14:44 |
| mrec | still trying to copy apple eh? ... something different should come up.. | 14:45 |
| mrec | looks like something iphone like with much less features than apple | 14:45 |
| koupsaa | and multitask | 14:45 |
| mrec | well apple has that too, just a matter of exposing it to the developers | 14:46 |
| mrec | from businessside apple and sony are doing it the best way they manage their content | 14:46 |
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| TigerTael | Just as long as I can get to the terminal... | 14:47 |
| slaine | anyone know if it's possible you use image-creator with non-meego repos ? | 14:48 |
| slaine | I'm gonna see if I can get it to build an image with my own rpms | 14:48 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: works fine | 14:48 |
| slaine | (all my own, kernel, base os etc.) | 14:48 |
| koupsaa | slaine you can edit kickstart file | 14:48 |
| koupsaa | .ks | 14:49 |
| slaine | yes, I have done | 14:49 |
| slaine | I've been using the livecd-creator and appliance-tools on Fedora12 | 14:49 |
| slaine | wondering if image-creator would offer better support for what I want | 14:49 |
| koupsaa | slaine, i m so bad in english. the better way for me is to copy/paste this link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Kickstart#Chapter_2._Kickstart_Options | 14:50 |
| slaine | thats fine koupsaa, I know about kickstart | 14:51 |
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| ScriptRipper | slaine: you might be right. looks like 1.0 has the old Netbook UI | 14:54 |
| ScriptRipper | with clutter and mutter | 14:54 |
| slaine | I know I'm right ;) | 14:55 |
| slaine | This was all confirmed at the first TSG anyways | 14:55 |
| ScriptRipper | i did not listen | 14:55 |
| ScriptRipper | to it completely | 14:55 |
| slaine | They weren't going to have time to make a whole new UI in a couple of weeks | 14:55 |
| ScriptRipper | but what happens after 1.0? | 14:55 |
| slaine | Exactly, I don't think they know/knew either | 14:56 |
| ScriptRipper | will all be moved to QT then? | 14:56 |
| CosmoHill | Meego 1.0 will have a new core with the moblin UI | 14:56 |
| slaine | At the moment, thirdparty developers are supposed to develop with Qt | 14:56 |
| CosmoHill | Meego 1.1 will have the Qt GUI | 14:56 |
| ScriptRipper | was there anything said about Phone UI | 14:56 |
| slaine | CosmoHill: I very much doubt that | 14:56 |
| X-Fade | Depends per UX. | 14:56 |
| slaine | More like MeeGo 1.2 when things are fully merged | 14:57 |
| CosmoHill | slaine: well it will have a new UI | 14:57 |
| slaine | MeeGo 1.1 will more likely be a more polished version of 1.0 | 14:57 |
| X-Fade | MeeGo 1.2 seems to be the real 1.0. | 14:57 |
| slaine | CosmoHill: got some reference for that info ? | 14:57 |
| CosmoHill | hmm, i was wrong | 14:59 |
| CosmoHill | it was meego 1.0 in may and 1.1 in october | 14:59 |
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| slaine | ScriptRipper: not directly | 15:09 |
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| slaine | Though, based on what we've seen from IDF, I think Handheld UX will cover Phones and MIDs | 15:10 |
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| ScriptRipper | which IDF? | 15:28 |
| ScriptRipper | the currently running one? | 15:28 |
| drizztbsd | hi | 15:28 |
| drizztbsd | how can I start X on meego for netbook? | 15:28 |
| koupsaa | type startx if it's installed | 15:29 |
| drizztbsd | it's not installed :) | 15:29 |
| drizztbsd | neither xinit or gdm | 15:30 |
| koupsaa | usb.img ? | 15:31 |
| drizztbsd | yes | 15:31 |
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| drizztbsd | meego-preview-netbook-core-20100330-001.usbimg | 15:31 |
| koupsaa | the only way i found to have an X with usb.img is to make an kickstart file | 15:32 |
| Khertan_Home | ah | 15:32 |
| Khertan_Home | so i'm not the only one too look :) | 15:32 |
| slaine | drizztbsd: Xorg doesn't work on the netbook one by default | 15:32 |
| Khertan_Home | just download it | 15:32 |
| Khertan_Home | found the login/pass | 15:32 |
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| drizztbsd | slaine: why not? | 15:32 |
| Khertan_Home | and looking for if the ui is available | 15:32 |
| Khertan_Home | :) | 15:32 |
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| slaine | drizztbsd: how the hell should I know why | 15:34 |
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| slaine | I have my conspiracy theories | 15:34 |
| slaine | but we'll see how that pans out | 15:34 |
| slaine | I've been right so far though | 15:34 |
| koupsaa | a .ks file with xorg-x11* and xterm betwen %packages to have an x with meego-dev | 15:35 |
| koupsaa | but it's just an X like other linux | 15:35 |
| koupsaa | no specific meego UI | 15:35 |
| drizztbsd | I know it | 15:35 |
| Khertan_Home | i think the meego ui was in preview due to the video of the idf :) | 15:35 |
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| Khertan_Home | i think the meego ui was in preview (for netbook only) due to the video of the idf :) | 15:36 |
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| koupsaa | you can get moblin if you want to have any idea about meego.... | 15:36 |
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| Khertan_Home | yep ... this is what i m currently downloading :) | 15:38 |
| slaine | Khertan_Home: what netbook do you have ? | 15:39 |
| Khertan_Home | i m too restless to made my first app for meego :) | 15:39 |
| Khertan_Home | slaine, an n130 | 15:39 |
| Khertan_Home | slaine, an samsung n130 | 15:39 |
| slaine | I don't know that model | 15:40 |
| slaine | let me google | 15:40 |
| Khertan_Home | see that some complain about no wifi driver for the last moblin release but for testing i ll connect an ethernet cable :) | 15:40 |
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| Khertan_Home | anyway it s in the moblin compatibility list :) | 15:40 |
| slaine | cool | 15:41 |
| koupsaa | some bug (deconexion re-connect de-connect..) with ath9k but i've installed new kernell and it's ok | 15:41 |
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| Khertan_Home | koupsaa: yep but for a test it ll be enought :) | 15:42 |
| koupsaa | yep | 15:42 |
| koupsaa | sure | 15:42 |
| Khertan_Home | ouch 754Mo ... hum ... 2 hours to wait :) | 15:43 |
| koupsaa | argh... and 2 minutes to test it | 15:44 |
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| Khertan_Home | koupsaa, a bit more :) | 15:45 |
| Khertan_Home | i hope :) | 15:45 |
| koupsaa | i have adopted it :) 3minutes | 15:45 |
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| koupsaa | you like the UI or not... after it his only a linux. with not a lot of packages but it's ok.. we always have the src... always.. often | 15:47 |
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| Khertan_Home | koupsaa, currently i use an ubuntu on my samsung, but i m not happy with it | 15:49 |
| Khertan_Home | it s well good for my desktop pc ... but the ui isn't really what i need on the netbook | 15:49 |
| koupsaa | as like you | 15:51 |
| Khertan_Home | and maemo on my phone :) | 15:51 |
| CosmoHill | slaine: did you see the new macbook pro? | 15:52 |
| koupsaa | :) netbook and spip is actually my phone ! | 15:52 |
| slaine | CosmoHill: drool, yes | 15:52 |
| slaine | thankfully, mines not so out of date that I feel the need to upgrade just yet | 15:52 |
| CosmoHill | mine is 5 years old | 15:52 |
| CosmoHill | well 4 and a half | 15:52 |
| CosmoHill | it's still pre-intel | 15:53 |
| slaine | nod | 15:53 |
| slaine | pricey though | 15:53 |
| CosmoHill | poor thing has eletrical tape on it | 15:53 |
| slaine | lol, a venerable laptop | 15:53 |
| CosmoHill | my friend thinks that the screw mount has snapped so there is nothing holding the left side of the screen together | 15:54 |
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| CosmoHill | so it puts a lot of pressure on the screen bezel which will bend and snap | 15:54 |
| drizztbsd | should I use moblin-image-creator or is there any meego-image-creator? | 15:55 |
| slaine | drizztbsd: the wiki has all the details on what versions to get for meego | 15:56 |
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| slaine | http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation | 15:56 |
| CosmoHill | slaine: http://cosmo1847.co.uk/?page=laptop :) | 15:56 |
| slaine | iirc | 15:56 |
| slaine | CosmoHill: awe, OS X 10.4, how quaint | 15:57 |
| CosmoHill | I've heard that performance in 10.5 is not so good on powerpc | 15:58 |
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| CosmoHill | we've gotten to the point where sometimes we bring in power strips to use with our laptops | 15:59 |
| slaine | My mbp's battery is dead | 15:59 |
| CosmoHill | I'm on my 3rd | 15:59 |
| CosmoHill | 1st was a fire hazard that apple replaced | 15:59 |
| CosmoHill | 2nd is about 20~40 mins | 16:00 |
| slaine | it's my old one, my wife uses it now and doesn't mind it being plugged in | 16:00 |
| CosmoHill | it gets to 50% battery then just powers off | 16:00 |
| slaine | dead cell | 16:00 |
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| CosmoHill | I spent £100 on my new one from belgium | 16:00 |
| CosmoHill | nearest computer shop that spoke english :/ | 16:00 |
| CosmoHill | and sold it | 16:01 |
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| slaine | lol | 16:02 |
| slaine | morning anaZ | 16:02 |
| CosmoHill | I've gotten used to the GUI and the programs I use | 16:04 |
| CosmoHill | and I don't want to change them | 16:04 |
| CosmoHill | and the only way to keep them on a new computer would be to buy a mac | 16:04 |
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| CosmoHill | is there a way to view a log so you can see it when it gets updated | 16:06 |
| CosmoHill | like cat or grep or something | 16:06 |
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| slaine | CosmoHill: what gets updated ? | 16:06 |
| CosmoHill | say auth.log | 16:07 |
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| CosmoHill | or an irc chat log | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | tail? | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:10 |
| CosmoHill | so whenever something was added to the log you could see it | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | tail -f | 16:10 |
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| CosmoHill | ooo | 16:11 |
| CosmoHill | maybe grep so I only get the last line of the log | 16:11 |
| TigerTael | ... | 16:12 |
| CosmoHill | at the moment everytime I say something the whole log gets refreshed | 16:12 |
| slaine | tail -f is what you want | 16:16 |
| CosmoHill | I use tail -f input but everytime something is added to the input file it seems to display the whole file again | 16:17 |
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| CosmoHill | ah i think i know why | 16:17 |
| CosmoHill | i think it's the way the program uses the input file | 16:18 |
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| CosmoHill | yes cos it's not just added to the end it's also removing a line further up | 16:18 |
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| TigerTael | Thought so. | 16:20 |
| CosmoHill | thanks for your help guys :) | 16:20 |
| CosmoHill | I was just being sneezy and wondering if I could read a bot's output logs | 16:20 |
| CosmoHill | it doesn't log the channel, only the last thing a person said | 16:21 |
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| * CosmoHill blinks cos someone has put windows 98 on a nokia 6220c | 17:07 | |
| CosmoHill | someone who doesn't know how to edit videos | 17:07 |
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| * CosmoHill wonders if the Nokia Booklet 3G will run meego | 17:16 | |
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| slaine | CosmoHill: No | 17:21 |
| * CosmoHill wonders why the 6220c isn't listed on nokia's support page | 17:21 | |
| slaine | as that poor poor netbook has the infamous GMA500/poulsbo chipset | 17:21 |
| CosmoHill | i meant future versions | 17:21 |
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| * CosmoHill is listening to "This is Dubstep Vol.2" and programming his assignment (C++) | 17:35 | |
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| * slaine is trying to stay awake after sleepless night with teething baby and trying to get Fedora13 running on his SetTopBox project | 17:36 | |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 17:53 | |
| * CosmoHill offers Stskeeps some tea | 17:53 | |
| Stskeeps | thanks | 17:53 |
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| CosmoHill | dammit | 17:54 |
| CosmoHill | I keep typing two 'i' in point | 17:54 |
| CosmoHill | but only when programming | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | i have some 'twitches' in some words as well, - i mean, i spell most words correct, but some i always fail at | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:55 |
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| rsalveti | hm, ducompositor just changed it's name as mcompositor | 17:56 |
| CosmoHill | I get or and of mixed up constantly | 17:56 |
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| * rsalveti is thinking if this is going to be default for meego or just for nokia version of meego | 17:57 | |
| CosmoHill | I think it's something todo with the shift since I spell it wrong when it's a capital P | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | rsalveti: dui's new name is meego touch, i think | 17:57 |
| CosmoHill | but when it's a lower case p and I spell point just fine | 17:57 |
| rsalveti | Stskeeps: yeah, but do you know if this is going to be the default for meego in mobile touch based devices? | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | rsalveti: no idea | 17:58 |
| rsalveti | I know it's going to be for "harmattan", but don't know if it's going to be the generic implementation | 17:58 |
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| w00t_ | rsalveti: wait and see I guess | 18:00 |
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| * TSCHAKeee2 imagines prefixing all the classes with MeegoTouch and screams | 18:20 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | haha | 18:20 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 18:20 |
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| Stskeeps | MeeGo Touch Grass | 18:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:22 |
| frals | lol TSCHAKeee2 | 18:22 |
| w00t_ | Stskeeps: that's more politically correct than what my mind came up with | 18:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | damn marketing people | 18:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i'm still waiting for the handset ux code to be dropped | 18:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | "Why would you want that? It's not like you can make your own handset! Only us big adult corporate manufacturers can do that!" | 18:24 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :( | 18:24 |
| * w00t_ didn't note anyone saying that | 18:24 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | w00t_: that's what it feels like | 18:25 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the embedded systems community is a good ol' boys club. | 18:25 |
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| w00t_ | I think that there's probably a lot of people trying to make a lot of changes to the way they work, so hopefully things will change for the better soon as the rewards of that start to be felt | 18:26 |
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| w00t_ | Stskeeps: I think your mail this morning is a bit relevant to this discussion.. | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee2: i think it all bends down to how team work is done, which i've tried to elaborate a bit in http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001612.html | 18:28 |
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| * TSCHAKeee2 hugs Stskeeps | 18:35 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | thank you for that. | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | heh :) | 18:35 |
| w00t_ | TSCHAKeee2: basically I think you should always assume good faith unless there is hard evidence otherwise | 18:35 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i'm both german and irish, that is.. i'm hardwired for pessimism :P | 18:36 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | I wonder | 18:49 |
| CosmoHill | I ponder | 18:49 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | are all the IDF demos etc, still using Clutter at this point? | 18:49 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it sure as hell looks like it | 18:49 |
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| slaine | TSCHAKeee2: yes they are | 18:59 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ok | 19:00 |
| slaine | It was confirmed at the First TSG that this would be the case | 19:00 |
| slaine | and I'm fully Irish ;) | 19:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i really like clutter | 19:00 |
| slaine | me too | 19:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but i also like Qt | 19:00 |
| slaine | I was happy it's still hanging around | 19:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i'm having to make some very | 19:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | tough decisions | 19:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | for my project | 19:00 |
| slaine | of course, GNOME 3.0 will be using clutter extensively in gnom-shell | 19:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and all of the other core devs are looking at me like I am fucking crazy | 19:01 |
| slaine | so clutter won't be going anywhere even if MeeGo move on UI wise to something Qt based | 19:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | why would I go off and move the entire stack to a system that might not be around long (referring to MeeGo) | 19:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | so of the few developers we have | 19:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i am basically alone in moving a 4 million line codebase | 19:02 |
| slaine | nice | 19:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | to something, that every time i look at it | 19:02 |
| slaine | I'm basing off Fedora until MeeGo can prove it's open | 19:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | is EXACTLY what LinuxMCE should be running on | 19:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i mean dear god, MeeGo is targeting exactly the same devices we are. | 19:02 |
| slaine | feck, better pack up or I'll miss the bus | 19:03 |
| slaine | Catch you all tomorrow | 19:03 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | (even the IVI stuff, there WAS at one point, an experimental version of Pluto that ran in an Audi car as a demonstration for Audi.) | 19:03 |
| tripzero | mmm... I... V.... I... | 19:03 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I'm going to get a Congatec kit soon | 19:04 |
| tripzero | for your car? | 19:04 |
| tripzero | or just for kicks? | 19:04 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | for my girlfriend's car eventually, but | 19:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it's all part of my research | 19:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | to get LinuxMCE into EVERYTHING | 19:04 |
| tripzero | TSCHAKeee2, i believe LinuxICE is probably better in the car than LinuxMCE ;) | 19:05 |
| tripzero | that's what i run | 19:05 |
| tripzero | in my car | 19:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | linuxMCE is much more than a media center | 19:06 |
| GAN900 | Lot of Asian interests in the room | 19:06 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it's a smart home platform | 19:06 |
| GAN900 | Samsung, Sony, LG, TI, Qualcomm | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | TI's hardly asian.. | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:06 |
| GAN900 | Arjan is introducing MeeGo | 19:06 |
| GAN900 | er, yeah | 19:06 |
| tripzero | room? | 19:06 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | is there a stream? | 19:06 |
| GAN900 | Lots of reps from various electronics companies | 19:06 |
| GAN900 | Don't see any cameras in the room | 19:07 |
| microlith | I suspect some of them see this as a means of escaping LiMo | 19:07 |
| Khertan_Home | koupsaa: have adopted moblin on my netbook :) | 19:07 |
| GAN900 | Myrtti's recording, though. | 19:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | gAN900: can you gauge the interest of the reps in the room? this is important. | 19:07 |
| GAN900 | tripzero, LF Summit, MeeGo room | 19:07 |
| Khertan_Home | oh wrong chan .. | 19:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | keep typing | 19:07 |
| tripzero | oh... /me is not there... | 19:07 |
| GAN900 | TSCHAKeee2, seems high | 19:07 |
| Khertan_Home | oh no ... | 19:07 |
| GAN900 | I know LG is very interested, anyway | 19:08 |
| GAN900 | Sony/Ericson, too. | 19:08 |
| microlith | I thought LG wanted to create their own OS | 19:08 |
| microlith | maybe they just want to fork MeeGo | 19:08 |
| Khertan_Home | Hey gan900 you make me think i post in the wrong chan by your presence :) | 19:08 |
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| GAN900 | microlith, you gonna make it for today? | 19:08 |
| * microlith tries not to wander down the cynical path | 19:08 | |
| GAN900 | microlith, yeah, we'll see. . . . | 19:09 |
| microlith | no, made a call on not going, then got told 3 hours later "you can go, if you want" | 19:09 |
| tripzero | TSCHAKeee2, linuxICE is pretty powerful. I use it for car automation... I'm sure it could integrate with MCE fairly easily | 19:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | tripzero: of course :) | 19:09 |
| microlith | so I'm a touch irate | 19:09 |
| GAN900 | microlith, lol | 19:09 |
| microlith | heh | 19:09 |
| GAN900 | Arjan is showing the platform arch diagram. | 19:10 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ah yes, the layer cake | 19:10 |
| lbt | no stream ? | 19:10 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | GAN900: thank you for doing this btw :) | 19:10 |
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| CosmoHill | LG joined the Linux Fondation this week | 19:11 |
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| GAN900 | TSCHAKeee2, check the #maemo logs if you want the summary of Ari's talk | 19:11 |
| GAN900 | and bergie has been summarizing all talks to his qaiku. | 19:11 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | where is his qaiku? | 19:12 |
| lcuk | having no streaming video at tech announce is like watching football o nthe radio | 19:12 |
| lcuk | GAN900 is once again being super! | 19:12 |
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| microlith | GAN900: bonus points if you can identify sharp/panasonic/toshiba/nec, or kddi/ntt/softbank | 19:13 |
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| microlith | that would tell a lot | 19:13 |
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| GAN900 | http://www.qaiku.com/go/6oj9/ | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | yay nomovok :) | 19:14 |
| GAN900 | microlith, not that I've noticed so far. | 19:15 |
| * GAN900 tried to use Maps on the Nexus One this morning to complete fail. | 19:16 | |
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| GAN900 | Mid-talk QA I don't feel like transcribing. :P | 19:19 |
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| Stskeeps | any RPM vs deb questions yet? | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:20 |
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| GAN900 | Nerp | 19:20 |
| GAN900 | Ronan called my bugs/bugzilla.meego.com thread stupid, though. :( | 19:20 |
| microlith | Stskeeps: not when you're within beating distance :) | 19:20 |
| lbt | how about "can I have an account on the build system please?" | 19:21 |
| GAN900 | lbt, they're talking arch | 19:21 |
| mitsutaka | I'll attend MeeGo Workring Group from irc and from Japan :) | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: could you ask where the mailing list for the architects are? | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:21 |
| GAN900 | lol | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | (honest question) | 19:21 |
| lbt | yes... Imad said this was discussed in the open.... where? | 19:22 |
| microlith | mitsutaka: is there a WG scheduled for Japan? | 19:22 |
| lbt | GAN900: if you ask one question... make it around that point :) | 19:22 |
| * GAN900 thinks there's a cloistered discussion somewhere. | 19:22 | |
| lbt | that's the point... | 19:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yeah | 19:23 |
| GAN900 | Mostly here, in the building | 19:23 |
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| mitsutaka | microlith: 21th of Apr, MeeGo Seminar Spling will hold in Japan :) | 19:23 |
| GAN900 | Imad, Ari and others are missing from the room. . . . | 19:23 |
| microlith | aww, too soon | 19:23 |
| lbt | GAN900: yesterday I said "the community would like to help Nokia and Intel audit their openness claims" | 19:23 |
| mitsutaka | Spling -> Spring | 19:23 |
| microlith | if it were later this year I'd try to make it :) | 19:24 |
| microlith | for now I'll settle for getting japanese input on my N900 working | 19:24 |
| mitsutaka | microlith: Do you use the maemocjk package? | 19:25 |
| * GAN900 saw somebody using an N900 with Japanese. | 19:25 | |
| microlith | I tried previously, one used unfamiliar romaji and the other only worked with the soft keyboard (which I could never get to come up.) | 19:25 |
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| mitsutaka | GAN900: sounds good | 19:26 |
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| mitsutaka | microlith: I know, It has been problem yet that input Japanese only soft keyboard. | 19:27 |
| mitsutaka | It couldn't launch scim when I take ctrl + shift or space. | 19:28 |
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| mitsutaka | II wanted to participate in local... want to go to SF! | 19:29 |
| CosmoHill | my program is going well :) | 19:30 |
| GAN900 | Here's the deb vs rpm question | 19:32 |
| tripzero | lol | 19:32 |
| leinir | GAN900: Please tell me the guy on stage went *facepalm* ;) | 19:32 |
| CosmoHill | here's my sword | 19:32 |
| GAN900 | Talking about OBS | 19:33 |
| tripzero | =||====> | 19:33 |
| GAN900 | They seem to be saying that RPM is required for MeeGo compatibility | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | oh dear | 19:33 |
| GAN900 | Which puts Harmattan in violation of that. :rolleyes: | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | here we go again | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | the real argument isn't that, it's much more sane :/ | 19:34 |
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| CosmoHill | GAN900: is his talk / video thing now? | 19:35 |
| mitsutaka | hmm.. My hope is keeping use rpm, bcoz I continue to use from the time of moblin. | 19:35 |
| CosmoHill | as far as i know very few distros have swapped package managers from deb to rpm or visa versa | 19:36 |
| CosmoHill | once you've picked one of them it's best to stick with it | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | after working a while with rpm, i'm fairly happy with it | 19:37 |
| GAN900 | repo.meego.com vs bugzilla.meego.com | 19:37 |
| GAN900 | Ugh | 19:37 |
| javispedro | well there's some heck of a distro who swapped deb to rpm right around here :) | 19:37 |
| GAN900 | CosmoHill, not streamed | 19:37 |
| GAN900 | being recored, though. | 19:37 |
| CosmoHill | ah okay cool | 19:37 |
| mitsutaka | GAN900: cool | 19:37 |
| CosmoHill | I hope it's not in flash :o | 19:37 |
| GAN900 | Be sure to thank Myrtti! | 19:38 |
| * CosmoHill sticks his laptop on reduces performance to cool it down a bit | 19:38 | |
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| * lbt proposes the smart package manager... | 19:39 | |
| CosmoHill | it's because of people like me text editors have find and replace all :/ | 19:39 |
| mitsutaka | BTW Chrome OS was adopted portage by Gentoo | 19:40 |
| CosmoHill | I can't spell success or edge and I keep spelling point with two Is | 19:40 |
| GAN900 | lol: http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4523768010/ | 19:40 |
| CosmoHill | mitsutaka: that sounds...painful | 19:40 |
| CosmoHill | isn't Chrome OS targeted at netbooks / nettops? | 19:41 |
| CosmoHill | devices known for they outstanding performance, especially when compiling packages | 19:41 |
| CosmoHill | GAN900: you at the meeting? | 19:41 |
| GAN900 | CosmoHill, MeeGo track at the LF Summit. | 19:42 |
| CosmoHill | sweet | 19:42 |
| * Robot101 should probably go :) | 19:42 | |
| CosmoHill | I couldn't go even if I wanted too | 19:42 |
| Robot101 | was just putting our press release up on the website | 19:42 |
| Robot101 | http://www.collabora.co.uk/press/2010/04/join-linux-foundation.html | 19:42 |
| Robot101 | wooo yay etc | 19:42 |
| CosmoHill | UK airspace is closed atm | 19:43 |
| CosmoHill | yay | 19:43 |
| maclaver | What is happening over there? (Wants to go home on Friday) | 19:44 |
| Robot101 | volcano in iceland | 19:44 |
| Robot101 | flying planes through ash turns out to work badly | 19:44 |
| CosmoHill | Iceland volcano erupted and has thrown up a load of ash | 19:44 |
| CosmoHill | last time it happened BA had the world's biggest glider | 19:44 |
| maclaver | Poor icellanders, first the economy goes up in smoke and then this... | 19:44 |
| CosmoHill | 747 - engines = bad | 19:45 |
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| CosmoHill | Robot101: oo, Collabora is only 50 miles away | 19:45 |
| mitsutaka | hmm.. sleepy.. It's 1:46am JST | 19:46 |
| CosmoHill | JST? | 19:46 |
| CosmoHill | Japanese summer Time? | 19:46 |
| maclaver | GAN900: anything new to you in this meeting so far? | 19:46 |
| Myrtti | i love that little hd camcorder | 19:46 |
| mitsutaka | Japan is no summer time. | 19:46 |
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| mitsutaka | JST -> Japan Standard Time | 19:47 |
| lbt | Robot101: so why isn't Meego using the smart pkg manager? | 19:47 |
| CosmoHill | Robot101: hmm, Collabora might be a company that could help me with my assignment since I need to find out how much it would cost to outsourse something | 19:47 |
| GAN900 | maclaver, nope. | 19:49 |
| CosmoHill | I like http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4374755051/in/photostream/ :) | 19:49 |
| maclaver | Pity :-( | 19:49 |
| maclaver | It would be so much easier if we had the software. | 19:50 |
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| GAN900 | CosmoHill, lol | 19:51 |
| Robot101 | CosmoHill: ...? assignment? | 19:52 |
| CosmoHill | I have a project managment assignment todo for university | 19:52 |
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| lcuk | Robot101, extended stay if ash cloud doesnt clear? | 19:53 |
| CosmoHill | problem is it's very verge :/ | 19:53 |
| GAN900 | app build service separate from platform | 19:53 |
| GAN900 | tbd, mostly, though | 19:53 |
| maclaver | CosmoHill, it looks like they justs leaked the automotive UX... | 19:54 |
| CosmoHill | ooo | 19:54 |
| CosmoHill | I hope texting isn't enabled on that | 19:54 |
| lcuk | why not, its so fiddly using stylus and osk in car, i want big touchable buttons | 19:55 |
| GAN900 | multiple appstores | 19:55 |
| CosmoHill | it's fine if you're parked up or stuck in traffic | 19:55 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, biggest problem with sms in the car is having to turn the haridryer off - it inteferes with cell reception | 19:56 |
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| lcuk | hairdryer | 19:56 |
| Myrtti | I'd pay good moneey for a spoonful of honey | 19:57 |
| Myrtti | mmmmeh | 19:57 |
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| mitsutaka | Netbook UX hasn't been released yet right. | 19:58 |
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| GAN900 | It's Moblin | 19:59 |
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| GAN900 | Break time. | 20:00 |
| mitsutaka | zzz.. | 20:01 |
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| CosmoHill | for now | 20:04 |
| fale | hi | 20:04 |
| CosmoHill | hello | 20:05 |
| amjad | hi | 20:05 |
| mitsutaka | hi | 20:05 |
| fale | I've seen that in extra there is gnome... I haven't seen kde in any repo... am I blind or kde have not been packaged yet? | 20:05 |
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| CosmoHill | I think it's the latter | 20:06 |
| * fale would prefer the first xD | 20:06 | |
| CosmoHill | would meego even have gnome or kde? | 20:06 |
| glinpus | not a full gnome either, iirc | 20:06 |
| fale | CosmoHill: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/extra/repo/ia32/os/i586/ <-- here you can find gnome (or, at least, pieces of) | 20:07 |
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| OldChap | was it so that Ux is vendor specific | 20:07 |
| OldChap | only basic stuff comes with meego distro | 20:08 |
| fale | OldChap: I think that if something is in the repo this doesn't scritly means that you have to install it | 20:09 |
| OldChap | i didn't mean that | 20:10 |
| leinir | fale: KDE is working on modularising kdelibs and friends, preparing for use on various handhelds (to enable packagers to only pull in certain features as required by applications) | 20:11 |
| fale | leinir: then we will not see kde in meego at least until 4.5 is released? | 20:11 |
| lcuk | has anyone got a multitouch computer (not a handheld) | 20:12 |
| OldChap | bamboo pen&touch supports multitouch | 20:13 |
| leinir | fale: No - but at that time there's also going to be plasma-mobile, of course :) | 20:13 |
| * CosmoHill is experiencing internet problems | 20:13 | |
| OldChap | that's not a computer of course | 20:13 |
| fale | leinir: I see | 20:13 |
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| notmart | fale: well, the modularizing of kde will definitely take a while, but would really be nice to have the full one already there in some unofficil whatever repository :) | 20:14 |
| leinir | fale: see also notmart's post on the mailing list ;) | 20:14 |
| fale | notmart: yes, I agree | 20:14 |
| CosmoHill | temp = temp->next(); << the amount of times I've missed this and gone into an infinite loop -.- | 20:14 |
| fale | notmart: when did you posted it? | 20:15 |
| notmart | fale: yesterday | 20:16 |
| fale | notmart: cool, thankyou :) | 20:16 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | fale: I really think you're being sily | 20:27 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | fale: MeeGo is not a desktop | 20:27 |
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| OldChap | its not only that, yes | 20:30 |
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| GAN900 | Restarting in 10 | 20:34 |
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| fale | TSCHAKeee2: I don't see anything bad on a KDE on a D510 ;) | 20:35 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | *facepalm* | 20:36 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | way to think like a geek | 20:36 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 walks away | 20:36 | |
| fale | (D510 is more powerfull than the actual PC I'm working on...) | 20:37 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | fale: there isn't anything i can say to convince you that KDE is not a good fit for MeeGo, so...whatever. | 20:37 |
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| notmart | TSCHAKeee2: yes, you don't want something like kdevelop on a 4" display, however, kde is not only the kde -apps- (so qwidget based, requiring a mouse etc) | 20:40 |
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| CosmoHill | is it weird that slipknot calms me down? | 20:45 |
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| tripzero | CosmoHill, not really. for some people caffeine calms them down | 20:45 |
| CosmoHill | it probably helps that my assignment is going well | 20:46 |
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| GAN900 | Talk about the netbook UX from Novell. | 20:47 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | so novell has their own? | 20:48 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | eh | 20:48 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | heh | 20:48 |
| Myrtti | awwww, dawn has tea :-< | 20:48 |
| GAN900 | downstairs at the coffee table. :P | 20:48 |
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| * TSCHAKeee2 sets up a script to retweet GAN900 | 20:54 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | hehehehe | 20:54 |
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| GAN900 | Not a lot of interest in the netbook UX. ;) | 20:58 |
| leinir | Hehe, that's not really that surprising :) | 21:00 |
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| Guest43663 | hello | 21:01 |
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| CosmoHill | this is why I have a bot that reponds to "hello" | 21:18 |
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| drizztbsd | hi | 21:25 |
| drizztbsd | mic-create-bootstrap does not works | 21:25 |
| slonopotamus | that's ok | 21:26 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | now that i think about it | 21:29 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | MeeGo may be one step closer, to the dream environment i envisioned in the late 1980s, when I first saw the TRON microkernel | 21:29 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | (no, not the movie, there is an OS called TRON..japanese users in here will know what i am referring to) | 21:29 |
| microlith | I've seen the NHK documentary on it :D | 21:30 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i've used it | 21:30 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | developed on it | 21:30 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | amazing OS, but it is definitely waaay long in the tooth | 21:30 |
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| microlith | it still gets mileage due to its support for extremely obscure kanji, iirc | 21:31 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i walked through the TRON demo house in 1991. | 21:31 |
| microlith | stuff that's not even part of Unicode | 21:31 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | 380 individual computer systems running some form of TRON | 21:31 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | managing every single aspect of home control | 21:31 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and even with that amazing OS, they were not able to completely debug the thing, over a 5 year run. | 21:31 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | we can thank Microsoft for completely killing TRON's planned world domination | 21:32 |
| microlith | yup | 21:32 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | (they were directly responsible for the threat they imposed to Fujitsu for releasing what would have been the first TRON PC) | 21:32 |
| lcuk | i think it was the name first | 21:33 |
| lcuk | everyone envisioned riding light cycles | 21:33 |
| microlith | I'd probably be better with my japanese computer terminology if they hadn't :/ | 21:33 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | from a systems architecture standpoint it was amazing, it just didn't take into account what actually did happen in the intervening years with regards to advances in network infrastructure and CPU speeds. | 21:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | part of it does live on though, in iTRON. | 21:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and some people have overlaid iTRON on top of Linux. | 21:34 |
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| CosmoHill | lol | 21:53 |
| CosmoHill | ash cloud completely misses Ireland but covers GB | 21:53 |
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| slaine | hey guys | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | wb slaine | 21:55 |
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| slaine | I'm thinking of writing an email to the -dev list, suming up our discussions earlier | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | which one(s)? | 21:56 |
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| slaine | I think we need some honesty from the powers that be as to how open meego is supposed to be | 21:56 |
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| Stskeeps | tail it in my thread? | 21:56 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | slaine: hear hear! | 21:57 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and at least if it's not gonna be open all the way | 21:58 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | THEY SHOULD BUY US OFF WITH LOTS AND LOTS OF GEAR! | 21:58 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :D | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | are we speaking open development or open source.. | 21:58 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | both | 21:58 |
| slaine | I'm talking community here | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:58 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but yes, emphasis on the community | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: you saw my post right? | 21:59 |
| CosmoHill | slaine: #meego-dev | 21:59 |
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| slaine | and imad's discussion emphasis on things being discussed out in the open | 21:59 |
| slaine | CosmoHill: that must be new | 21:59 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | are there snapshot builds of the netbook ux being done? | 22:00 |
| slaine | Not publicly | 22:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and the builder isn't open yet.. | 22:00 |
| slaine | we where given a bare minimum of code in the day 1 drop | 22:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ok | 22:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yup i went through it | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | bare is right | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yeek | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :) | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | there's qt | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:01 |
| lcuk | we were given plenty of code on day 1 | 22:01 |
| slaine | and in my opinion, that was done on purpose so that they could get PR for Meego at IDF and Collab summit | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | heheheheh | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i'm running a meego snapshot | 22:01 |
| lcuk | int main() { printf("hello world\n"); return 0; } | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | from sometime in feb 2010 | 22:01 |
| lcuk | see, more code ^ | 22:01 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and boy howdy is it flakier than a french pastry | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | my girlfriend is jealous of it though | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ;) | 22:02 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i had to do something newer than moblin 2.1, because my Asus 1005HA has an ath9k, which, had constant epileptic fits under Moblin. | 22:03 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 imitates spastic seizure boy impressions | 22:03 | |
| Stskeeps | slaine: i think instead of pointing out the issues, indicating support for my proposal might be another way to get things on track | 22:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | (yes, it is OKAY for me to do so, I have complex partial seizures) :P | 22:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I support the proposal | 22:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | so how do we show support? by..buying you a beer, or..? ;) | 22:04 |
| slaine | I'm conflicted as to what to do | 22:05 |
| slaine | I want to voice my concerns | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | well, that too, but helping shape it and commenting, or mentioning cases where your contributions were difficult to make because of Don'ts, etc | 22:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | slaine: buying people beers is always a good thing to do :D | 22:05 |
| slaine | I want to find out if I've got the wrong end of the stick as regards how open this is supposed to be | 22:05 |
| slaine | TSCHAKeee2: if anyone was around here I would | 22:05 |
| slaine | I'm off for a few pints in about 10 mins, hmmmm, Guiness | 22:06 |
| slaine | Guinness even. | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: as far as i can tell, TSG wants to push things in the right direction, but they also have to fight a lot of company habit | 22:06 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | mmmm | 22:06 |
| lcuk | slaine, there are a lot of people currently huddled together in america - since they might be staying a bit longer | 22:06 |
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| lcuk | i would imagine that wait and see might be in order | 22:06 |
| slaine | lcuk: the won't be getting back to the uk any time soon :) | 22:06 |
| lcuk | and if you want to feel proactive | 22:06 |
| lcuk | help Stskeeps | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: i'm not 100% sure TSG is actually running the full show, and a lot of rogue teams showing off their stuff | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | / marketing pushing things out | 22:06 |
| lcuk | rogue teams? | 22:07 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: good point | 22:07 |
| lcuk | the device i saw appeared to be one by company for a while | 22:07 |
| slaine | But there's clearly too much happening internally | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lcuk: you know, the guys doing the Handset UX, and the TV UX... ;) | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | vendors like OpenPeak | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | which, btw guys, it is very doubtful that OpenPeak will EVER sell directly to end users | 22:07 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | they make products for others to sell | 22:08 |
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| slaine | Partly my upset comes from the fact that I predicted exactly what's happened over the last few weeks and I was hoping I was wrong | 22:08 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and really wouldn't give a flying fuck about individuals | 22:08 |
| lcuk | yeah its also doubtful that a tyre company could become the largest mobile phone company on earth | 22:08 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | OpenPeak isn't a tyre company | 22:08 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | they're an industrial design firm | 22:09 |
| lcuk | nokia was :) companies change and reinvent themselves | 22:09 |
| lcuk | you should never say never | 22:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh that's right | 22:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | duh | 22:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ;) | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: i feel like a fool too, but i keep telling myself we should fight for openness | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | and point out where there's flaws and how we -should- be doing things | 22:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | Stskeeps: you are doing the right thing. | 22:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | Stskeeps: there is no question of that. | 22:09 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: but they know all this, they've chosen not to do it | 22:09 |
| w00t_ | slaine: "we should be doing this but nobody else is" is hardly an incentive to do it | 22:10 |
| w00t_ | I'd have thought that one was obvious | 22:10 |
| w00t_ | it will always be easier to keep with the status quo rather than make waves | 22:10 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the embedded systems market has traditionally been VERY VERY HUSH HUSH handshake | 22:10 |
| slaine | w00t_: if you listened to the talks yesterday, you'd think everything was perfect | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: there's a lot of powers to be fought and i can only imagine that TSG has had a lot on their hands even taming their own teams | 22:11 |
| w00t_ | slaine: but I've been doing more than just listening to the marketing bullshit :P | 22:11 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | they've been working like this for 30 years | 22:11 |
| w00t_ | it's one thing to say you do things and pay lip service - it's another to actually do it | 22:11 |
| slaine | Yeah | 22:11 |
| w00t_ | and the two are totally disconnected | 22:11 |
| slaine | I know | 22:11 |
| slaine | thanks guys | 22:11 |
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| slaine | I've calmed down a little now | 22:11 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i keep holding out hope | 22:12 |
| w00t_ | patience | 22:12 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | that a truly open embedded systems platform will emerge | 22:12 |
| lcuk | TSCHAKeee2, whatever the case: | 22:12 |
| slaine | I don't want to go off the handle and become a pariah | 22:12 |
| w00t_ | I think that raising it on the ML was the right thing to do, now let's see what comes | 22:12 |
| lcuk | ux can be rewritten by anyone | 22:12 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | that is inexpensive for any fab to make one-offs. | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: if you don't get pissed off once in a while, you aren't fighting hard enough :) | 22:12 |
| slaine | lol, truee | 22:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | my problem is, i get pissed off too often | 22:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 22:13 |
| slaine | TSCHAKeee2: that's the irish man in you | 22:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ;) | 22:13 |
| slaine | lets get pissed and have a fight | 22:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | heheheh | 22:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I do not want another TiVO | 22:13 |
| slaine | be gah and be gahrah | 22:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i do not want a whole INDUSTRY of TiVOs | 22:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh yes, look at us, we use free software | 22:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | "can we change it?" | 22:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | "no" | 22:14 |
| lcuk | TSCHAKeee2, then start on the road to it yourself | 22:14 |
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| lcuk | scratch that itch | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee2: i don't doubt that the core system will be fully open source, hardware adaptations may have some closed source and hardware vendors might add in differentiation apps to the mix. | 22:14 |
| slaine | right, I'm off for those beers | 22:15 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lcuk: I am trying. trust me, the work i am doing on LinuxMCE is a handful unto itself. | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee2: even that is a huge step forward | 22:15 |
| slaine | I'll catch you tomorrow | 22:15 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yes. | 22:15 |
| slaine | be gentle with me, I might have too many ;) | 22:15 |
| w00t_ | I have wanted beers for the past week | 22:15 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | when you see black | 22:15 |
| w00t_ | I'm going nuts :P | 22:15 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | you've drank too much, | 22:15 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ;) | 22:15 |
| slaine | laters | 22:15 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | From: Slaine's Liver, To: Slaine: Subject: Dear John Letter. I know we're irish, but.. I quit.. seriously.. later. -Your Liver | 22:16 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 22:16 |
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| * TSCHAKeee2 continues looking for a job... is nervous :( | 22:17 | |
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| * CosmoHill hugs TSCHAKeee2 | 22:17 | |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | thanks | 22:17 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | been out since March..and I'm getting really really nervous | 22:18 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | sooo do not want a repeat of LAST YEAR | 22:18 |
| CosmoHill | last job i had was 2007 | 22:18 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | i was down to lint pancakes there at the end of 2009 | 22:18 |
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| microlith | wow, novell managed to push mono into meego | 22:22 |
| lbt | ugh | 22:22 |
| CosmoHill | why does meego need mono? | 22:23 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | oh dear god | 22:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | *bang-head-against-wall* | 22:23 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | sigh | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | it's a runtime like any other | 22:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yeah... | 22:24 |
| microlith | Stskeeps: go tell MS to stop making patent noise and I'll care less | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | well, at least we're not discussing rpm vs deb | 22:24 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | hahahahaha | 22:24 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | i'm concerned more with UI concerns between apps in the gtk and qt camps... | 22:25 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: it's not quite "like any other" | 22:25 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | but still, it is nice novell joined on, the more the better | 22:26 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | i just hope we can kill any snakes in the garden | 22:26 |
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| Stskeeps | doesn't ubuntu have mono now too? | 22:27 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yup | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | also, mono is an most excellent disease to have. think i lost a summer of hacking to that as a teen. | 22:27 |
| * lbt stands by his "ugh" :) | 22:28 | |
| thiago_home | lol @ Stskeeps | 22:28 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | you know, with the embedded form of qt, egl support, and the mali200 driver, i think a full meego UX could be made for the smartQ V7... ;) | 22:30 |
| thiago_home | there are many devices done with QWS | 22:30 |
| thiago_home | including a phone | 22:30 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | (the mali200 driver does work on the smartQ v7 beautifully, but it is EGL only) | 22:30 |
| thiago_home | remember the Greenphone? | 22:31 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh yes | 22:31 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | this smartq V7 is a wonderful device, but it needs a better environment | 22:31 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and the android on it is half baked at best | 22:31 |
| thiago_home | and that was woefully underpowered | 22:32 |
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| thiago_home | I think that's comparable to an S40 of today, not even Symbian, much less MeeGo, Android and iPhone | 22:32 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yup that would make sense | 22:32 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | thiago_home: are there any interesting gotchas to watch out for when using pure openGL ES as the painter for everything? | 22:33 |
| thiago_home | not that I know of | 22:37 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | ok | 22:39 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | wait, is the source for uxlaunch in the code drop? | 22:39 |
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| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee2: there's a mali200 driver that works on v7? | 22:43 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh yes | 22:43 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | borischka got it working | 22:43 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but no X | 22:43 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | it's just a straight OpenGL ES to framebuffer | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 22:44 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | did i just see your heart sink? | 22:44 |
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| * CosmoHill noms rhubarb and custard | 22:48 | |
| * TSCHAKeee2 eats evil food | 22:51 | |
| CosmoHill | big mac? | 22:51 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | CosmoHill: beer battered bacon double quarter pounder | 22:54 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | no, just kidding | 22:54 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i had some eggs benedict earlier. ;) | 22:54 |
| CosmoHill | benedict? | 22:54 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | english muffin, grilled, split in halves.. on each slice, a slice of ham, and a poached egg, covered in hollendaise sauce | 22:55 |
| CosmoHill | I'd drool if I wasn't full | 22:55 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the perfect breakfast, both sober, and with a hangover | 22:56 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ;) | 22:56 |
| CosmoHill | I've only had 3 or 4 hang overs in my life :) | 22:56 |
| CosmoHill | damn you vodka | 22:56 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | on vodka? | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | wow | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | um.. i've lost count | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but my primary alcohol preference is 18+ year old scotch | 22:57 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | (Lagavulin 16 being the exception) | 22:57 |
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| CosmoHill | last time I had vodka I was already drunk | 22:59 |
| CosmoHill | (I\m a light weight) | 22:59 |
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| GAN900 | Quim's doing a "Normal day in the MeeGo project" | 23:03 |
| Myrtti | ohai. yes, I've got an HD camera | 23:03 |
| Myrtti | _o/ | 23:03 |
| thiago_home | wake up, have breakfast | 23:04 |
| thiago_home | read email, then go to work, read more email | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: please make notes, curious how it -is supposed- to be like :P | 23:04 |
| GAN900 | IRC! | 23:04 |
| * CosmoHill is watching the three party leaders discuess / aruge | 23:04 | |
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| GAN900 | Two main driving forces: oss projects (upstream) and MeeGo working groups | 23:07 |
| lbt | working groups plural? | 23:08 |
| GAN900 | lbt, yeah, yeah. :P | 23:08 |
| * GAN900 keeps seeing different device segments diagramed as working groups | 23:08 | |
| GAN900 | Who knows what the fsck a working group actually is, though. | 23:09 |
| GAN900 | Nobody here, really, so far as I can tell. | 23:09 |
| GAN900 | TSG is really high-level . . . blah blah blah | 23:10 |
| Myrtti | if someone needs to go to TSG, something is really really badly wrong. | 23:10 |
| lcuk | lbt what are youworking on at the moment | 23:10 |
| Myrtti | or something | 23:10 |
| GAN900 | Diagraming handset/netbook/ivi WGs next to the TSG | 23:10 |
| lbt | RWG notes and image building on OBS | 23:10 |
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| lcuk | lbt, based on the obs thing - when the official obs system comes online for meego will it be practical for companies to easily drag build system to their own servers | 23:14 |
| lcuk | if they wanted to continue working on integrating their components | 23:14 |
| lbt | sure, they'll just need a little consultancy... | 23:14 |
| * lbt grins and holds up a sign | 23:15 | |
| lbt | "get your OBS consultancy here, 5 for a pound (or so)" | 23:15 |
| lcuk | :) | 23:15 |
| lcuk | can you sync between obs instances (since its all git under the hood | 23:16 |
| lbt | not sync | 23:16 |
| lcuk | companyA makes their own private build system so they can work on mega application AA | 23:16 |
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| lbt | yes | 23:16 |
| lcuk | but every now and then they want to pull the latest components in | 23:17 |
| lbt | there are a lot of techniques depending on what you want to do | 23:17 |
| lcuk | for meego base stuff | 23:17 |
| lbt | Meego appears to be doing weekly snapshots | 23:17 |
| lbt | those make sense | 23:17 |
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| lcuk | well a weekly snapshot might not be right | 23:18 |
| lcuk | unless you can append to an image | 23:18 |
| lcuk | with secret company software AA | 23:18 |
| lcuk | and instlal on all company machines | 23:18 |
| lbt | snapshot of the repos including src | 23:18 |
| lbt | and yes, there's a *lot* you can do | 23:18 |
| lcuk | im just wondering how interested parties will be working | 23:18 |
| lbt | what you're talking about is establishing a QA process and managing the baseline OS | 23:19 |
| lcuk | assuming some companies like cathederal model | 23:19 |
| lbt | you want to track it to avoid disruption | 23:19 |
| lbt | but you don't want changes in the baseline to screw with your internal scheduling | 23:19 |
| lcuk | no, so the OBS machine inside big company A and the mechanics servicing it | 23:20 |
| lcuk | need to know how to bring it up to latest | 23:20 |
| lcuk | all hypothetical of course | 23:21 |
| lbt | :) | 23:21 |
| lbt | the OBS is a build system... what you need is to setup some workflows around it | 23:22 |
| lbt | it/you can easily manage the sync with upstream | 23:22 |
| lbt | and if you want a live connection - that works too | 23:23 |
| lcuk | cool | 23:23 |
| lbt | so you build your code on your private instance using up-to-the-second changes on the public OBS | 23:23 |
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| GAN900 | Talking code, trunk, git, upstream, patches | 23:37 |
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| GAN900 | /snooze | 23:37 |
| lbt | heh | 23:38 |
| GAN900 | lbt, gonna have to wait for Myrtti's video. :P | 23:38 |
| Myrtti | yeah, my brain turned off a good while ago | 23:38 |
| Myrtti | fortunately the camera works | 23:38 |
| lbt | keep it level Myrtti | 23:38 |
| Myrtti | it's on a gorillapod on the back of a chair | 23:38 |
| GAN900 | Except arjan keeps smacking the chair while gestulating. :P | 23:39 |
| Myrtti | yup | 23:39 |
| Myrtti | ok, now the camera is running on fumes | 23:39 |
| Myrtti | GAN900: watch out, I migth do a lunge for it soon | 23:40 |
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| Robot101 | lcuk: yeah will probably go over to montreal with burger | 23:45 |
| lcuk | Robot101, yeah its a bit smoggy over here | 23:45 |
| Myrtti | that was fun | 23:46 |
| Myrtti | almost snapped a fingernail ;___; | 23:46 |
| lbt | :O | 23:46 |
| Robot101 | lcuk: :/ | 23:46 |
| Myrtti | lbt: sorry, I had to change the batteries. | 23:47 |
| lbt | close call then ;) | 23:47 |
| lcuk | Robot101, do they still do atlantic cruises? | 23:47 |
| CosmoHill | where was this meeting again? | 23:47 |
| Robot101 | lcuk: lol | 23:47 |
| Myrtti | I wonder what kind of bribery I need to do to get BF to edit these videos before uploading | 23:47 |
| lbt | hmm, meego summit on a cruise liner in the fjords... | 23:47 |
| Myrtti | atleast stich the two pieces of this session in one | 23:48 |
| javispedro | lbt++ | 23:48 |
| javispedro | ;P | 23:48 |
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| lcuk | i think the volcano was a worldwide conspiracy to give nokians and other meego participants a longer holiday | 23:49 |
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| maclaver | lcuk: say that to my wife :-) | 23:49 |
| lcuk | maclaver, i cant now, shes in the shower | 23:49 |
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| Myrtti | I wish I could use that as an excuse | 23:49 |
| maclaver | I don't think that a small volcano is a good enough excuse for her. | 23:49 |
| lcuk | lol maclaver | 23:50 |
| lcuk | my missus would be the same | 23:50 |
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| lcuk | they say 48h before the stuff falls out of the sky or spreads out enough | 23:50 |
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| Myrtti | aw. I wish Quim would draw bunnies and flowers | 23:50 |
| lcuk | Myrtti, hes whiteboarding? | 23:50 |
| maclaver | He's not good at bunnies. | 23:50 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: indeed | 23:51 |
| * lcuk mutters something about interactive internet enabled ones | 23:51 | |
| maclaver | Tufte would be proud, no powerpoint, go Quim go. | 23:51 |
| lcuk | someone make rolf harris wobble board noises or shout "can you tell what it is yet?" | 23:52 |
| Myrtti | lcuk: X-D | 23:53 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 23:58 |
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