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| jeremiah_ | lbt: You around? | 01:07 |
|---|---|---|
| jeremiah_ | I looked a little at the OBS and kinda started some documentation. | 01:07 |
| jeremiah_ | Amazing how little OBS documentation there is out there. | 01:08 |
| lbt | I am | 01:08 |
| lbt | true | 01:09 |
| jeremiah_ | Do you have some magic docs of your own? | 01:09 |
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| lbt | what level? | 01:10 |
| lbt | installation? | 01:10 |
| jeremiah_ | And can you tell me if I can run the OBS without the web front end, which looks like a slow, heavy RoR app | 01:10 |
| lbt | or use | 01:10 |
| jeremiah_ | I pulled from git already | 01:10 |
| jeremiah_ | So I guess installation might be good | 01:10 |
| jeremiah_ | But I might try a custom install | 01:10 |
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| lbt | I suggest a plain install first - get a VM with everything running and configured. | 01:11 |
| lbt | then move on from there | 01:11 |
| lbt | There are a lot of components | 01:11 |
| jeremiah_ | So, it goes, Debian OS -> VirtualBox -> OBS ? | 01:11 |
| lbt | schedulers, dispatchers, workers, api, webui | 01:11 |
| lbt | etc | 01:11 |
| lbt | yes | 01:11 |
| jeremiah_ | I know I'm supposed to use SuSE but, I dunno | 01:11 |
| jeremiah_ | Linux is Linux | 01:11 |
| lbt | yep... | 01:12 |
| jeremiah_ | cool | 01:12 |
| jeremiah_ | okay | 01:12 |
| lbt | ie : use suse | 01:12 |
| lbt | once that works use something else :) | 01:12 |
| jeremiah_ | Well, I'm gonna try on debian first | 01:12 |
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| jeremiah_ | I don't have SuSE at hand. | 01:12 |
| jeremiah_ | Plus, Linode doesn't offer a SuSE VPS | 01:13 |
| jeremiah_ | Which is kinda weird | 01:13 |
| lbt | use the Net install | 01:13 |
| lbt | iso | 01:13 |
| lbt | and install a minimal server - no gui | 01:13 |
| jeremiah_ | Well to install on debian they said start with the git repo ? | 01:14 |
| jeremiah_ | in #opensuse-buildserver | 01:14 |
| lbt | yeah - but that's like starting with hand-writing ELF headers when you want to write a Qt app... | 01:15 |
| jeremiah_ | http://www.novell.com/prblogs/?p=2153 <--- W00t | 01:15 |
| lbt | sure... you're hardcore... but .... | 01:15 |
| jeremiah_ | You mean I'm just setting myself up for more work than necessary? | 01:15 |
| lbt | yup | 01:15 |
| lbt | it's not trivial to setup on suse | 01:16 |
| jeremiah_ | So just get an idle local box, throw suse on it, install the OBS ISO | 01:16 |
| lbt | once you get the hang of it... port it | 01:16 |
| thiago_home | \177ELF | 01:16 |
| lbt | use vbox | 01:16 |
| jeremiah_ | I love vbox, but why use vbox? | 01:16 |
| jeremiah_ | I mean I know why I use it, but why do you use it? | 01:16 |
| lbt | err, so you can trash it, snapshot it, etc etc | 01:16 |
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| jeremiah_ | Oh, but then any VM would work | 01:17 |
| lbt | yeah | 01:17 |
| jeremiah_ | won't kvm give me better performance in this case? | 01:17 |
| lbt | yes, but at this point you want ease of use .... and I thought you said vbox? | 01:17 |
| lbt | you did | 01:17 |
| lbt | [23:11] <jeremiah_> So, it goes, Debian OS -> VirtualBox -> OBS ? | 01:18 |
| jeremiah_ | Yep, I did. =] | 01:18 |
| lbt | so shurrup and do as you're told ;) | 01:18 |
| jeremiah_ | So SuSE -> vbox -> OBS ISO ? | 01:18 |
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| lbt | no, you use Debian on your desktop don't you? | 01:18 |
| jeremiah_ | well yeah | 01:18 |
| jeremiah_ | But I'm not gonna run this on my desktop | 01:19 |
| lbt | OK.... | 01:19 |
| jeremiah_ | The goal is to evalute this for production | 01:19 |
| jeremiah_ | So I'd like to run some real builds | 01:19 |
| lbt | ah, OK | 01:19 |
| lbt | is this for maemo? | 01:20 |
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| jeremiah_ | lbt: This is for GENIVI | 01:20 |
| jeremiah_ | GENIVI is an automobile consortium | 01:20 |
| jeremiah_ | They are developing an OS for IVI (In Vehicle Infotainment) | 01:20 |
| lbt | OK - so you want a reasonably proper setup | 01:21 |
| jeremiah_ | Yep | 01:21 |
| lbt | so for sure you don't mess about with Debian :) | 01:21 |
| lbt | not for production yet | 01:21 |
| jeremiah_ | Hold it right there. | 01:21 |
| lbt | heh | 01:21 |
| jeremiah_ | Debian is actually the only Free OS that complies with CGL | 01:21 |
| lbt | sure... not what I mean | 01:22 |
| jeremiah_ | You mean OBS production? | 01:22 |
| lbt | if you want a production stable OBS you don't use Debian to host it | 01:22 |
| lbt | yet | 01:22 |
| jeremiah_ | ah | 01:22 |
| jeremiah_ | okay | 01:22 |
| lbt | How much HW do you have? | 01:23 |
| lbt | 1 multi-core machine? | 01:23 |
| jeremiah_ | I don't know yet, I may have a Dual Core machine | 01:23 |
| jeremiah_ | Fairly recent Core 2 Duo | 01:23 |
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| lbt | ok, so you have enough for an eval but not a 'proper' setup | 01:24 |
| jeremiah_ | What do I need? | 01:24 |
| jeremiah_ | I mean, we have a build farm with ssh tons of memory and such | 01:24 |
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| jeremiah_ | Do I need something like that? | 01:24 |
| jeremiah_ | If so, why? | 01:24 |
| lbt | not to evaluate | 01:24 |
| jeremiah_ | This is just a bunch of perl scripts with a ruby frontend | 01:24 |
| lbt | but to use as a build-farm | 01:25 |
| jeremiah_ | ah | 01:25 |
| jeremiah_ | hmm | 01:25 |
| lbt | have you got an account on the suse OBS yet? | 01:25 |
| jeremiah_ | Yeah | 01:25 |
| lbt | and you've seen https://build.opensuse.org/monitor+ | 01:25 |
| lbt | sorry https://build.opensuse.org/monitor | 01:25 |
| jeremiah_ | No, I'll go read that | 01:26 |
| lbt | each line (mainly 'idle' right now) is a server... | 01:26 |
| lbt | yes it's a bunch of perl scripts... but it's pretty sophisticated :) | 01:26 |
| jeremiah_ | aha | 01:26 |
| jeremiah_ | Well, yeah. Perl is sophisticated. :) | 01:27 |
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| jeremiah_ | So the web frontend monitors a build farm | 01:27 |
| lbt | when you throw 10,000+ packages at it... they build | 01:27 |
| lbt | yes | 01:27 |
| jeremiah_ | oooookaay | 01:27 |
| jeremiah_ | Impressive | 01:27 |
| lbt | http://wiki.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Backend_Key_Components | 01:28 |
| jeremiah_ | Yeah, those are all the perl modules | 01:29 |
| jeremiah_ | I looked through some of that source code | 01:29 |
| lbt | OK | 01:29 |
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| lbt | http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service | 01:29 |
| lbt | so, anyway | 01:29 |
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| lbt | if I had a single multi-cpu machine to setup | 01:30 |
| lbt | I'd setup opensuse11.2 on it | 01:30 |
| lbt | and create some vms | 01:30 |
| jeremiah_ | Okay, so SLED or SLES? | 01:30 |
| thiago_home | why desktop? | 01:31 |
| jeremiah_ | I dunno | 01:31 |
| jeremiah_ | just askin' | 01:31 |
| lbt | one VM would be the webui/scheduler | 01:31 |
| jeremiah_ | okay | 01:31 |
| lbt | the main host would actually be a worker but would be firewalled | 01:32 |
| lbt | the worker needs to create more VMs on the fly | 01:32 |
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| jeremiah_ | Is there a UML diagram or similar? | 01:33 |
| lbt | the reason the host is a worker is that I'm not au-fait with nesting VMs | 01:33 |
| lbt | Xen certainly can't | 01:33 |
| lbt | and kvm is new-ish in the code | 01:33 |
| lbt | (no UML) the worker should spawn VM-based chroots for each job | 01:34 |
| jeremiah_ | VM _and_ chroot? | 01:34 |
| lbt | to ensure maximum security (given that each user has root and a compiler and breaking a chroot isn't that hard) | 01:34 |
| jeremiah_ | okay | 01:34 |
| lbt | so the VM has no NW interface | 01:35 |
| lbt | no pulling in source or acting as an illicit pr0n-server | 01:35 |
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| jeremiah_ | When you say nesting VMs, you mean spin up a virtual machine which then spins up another VM? | 01:37 |
| jeremiah_ | Or do you mean side-by-side? | 01:37 |
| lbt | yeah | 01:37 |
| jeremiah_ | Do you guys run this internally in Nokia? | 01:38 |
| jeremiah_ | Or are you evaluating this? | 01:38 |
| lbt | yes | 01:38 |
| jeremiah_ | Which? Run or eval? | 01:38 |
| lbt | run | 01:38 |
| lbt | OBS is a done deal | 01:38 |
| jeremiah_ | What sort of resource level in terms of Man-months do you use? | 01:39 |
| jeremiah_ | I mean how many people are on the OBS team? | 01:39 |
| lbt | I know Nokia don't want that kind of thing discussed too much | 01:39 |
| jeremiah_ | ah okay, enough said | 01:39 |
| jeremiah_ | It is more than just you right? =) | 01:40 |
| lbt | :) I am allowed to publish how we install | 01:40 |
| lbt | but not details of the hardware | 01:40 |
| jeremiah_ | H,,, | 01:40 |
| jeremiah_ | Or rather hmmm. | 01:40 |
| jeremiah_ | So _if_ MeeGo uses OBS . . . | 01:41 |
| lbt | Meego does | 01:41 |
| lbt | we know that | 01:41 |
| jeremiah_ | How do we know that? | 01:41 |
| jeremiah_ | Is it official? | 01:41 |
| lbt | oh yes | 01:41 |
| jeremiah_ | okay | 01:41 |
| jeremiah_ | Cool | 01:41 |
| jeremiah_ | So who maintains OBS for MeeGo? | 01:41 |
| jeremiah_ | Community? | 01:41 |
| lbt | this is a big issue atm - and part of the RWG proposal | 01:42 |
| jeremiah_ | Because maintainance / access / control of the build farm is going to be pretty damn strategic | 01:42 |
| lbt | maybe | 01:43 |
| jeremiah_ | Sure its open source, but _we'll_ build _your_ source | 01:43 |
| jeremiah_ | Hmmm | 01:43 |
| lbt | have you done my tutorial yet? | 01:44 |
| jeremiah_ | No, where is it again. :) | 01:44 |
| lbt | I can tell from the questions you ask :) | 01:45 |
| jeremiah_ | :p | 01:45 |
| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build Getting Started | 01:45 |
| lbt | then, eventually, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build/Application_Building#Local_Builds | 01:46 |
| jeremiah_ | Excellent, thanks. | 01:46 |
| jeremiah_ | I'll make sure to read those before we chat again. :) | 01:46 |
| lbt | http://gitorious.org/opensuse/build-service/blobs/raw/master/dist/README.SETUP | 01:46 |
| jeremiah_ | Ta as they say in old blighty | 01:47 |
| lbt | <grin> anytime | 01:47 |
| jeremiah_ | Now I've got to get my ass to bed. | 01:47 |
| jeremiah_ | Thanks again lbt! | 01:47 |
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| user_ | hiho | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | hepho | 12:03 |
| user_ | any news on the meego repos? | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | not end of month yet | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:03 |
| user_ | hehe | 12:04 |
| user_ | then lets keep on waiting wanna see what my n900 can do with it | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | developer or user? | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:05 |
| user_ | user | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | wouldn't put my hopes up | 12:05 |
| user_ | ok | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | release today is developers | 12:05 |
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| user_ | thx for the info | 12:05 |
| * ShadowJK would be surprised if it displays anything on the screen | 12:06 | |
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| user_ | the n900 screams for a new OS | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | not really, i'm pretty happy with maemo5 :P | 12:08 |
| MiXu- | me too | 12:08 |
| * ShadowJK too | 12:08 | |
| * w00t_ too | 12:08 | |
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| user_ | okok i got it | 12:08 |
| user_ | :) | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: how about booting into emacs? | 12:09 |
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| ShadowJK | still need working X and working keyboard, and especially working onscreen for esc/alt :P | 12:09 |
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| user_ | how do you like the skype feature? i have massive laggs now i am trying fring | 12:12 |
| user_ | i mean when calling | 12:12 |
| ShadowJK | I don't use it | 12:12 |
| ShadowJK | I'd imagine latency mostly depends on the latency of the internet connection used | 12:13 |
| user_ | i try it here with wlan and i only got like 125kbit upload | 12:14 |
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| user_ | wonder if it will ever work with 3 g | 12:14 |
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| ShadowJK | I get about 170ms latency on hspa, but if connection is idle for a few seconds, the next packet has a 3000ms latency with my operator | 12:20 |
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| cyberkonsult | Will the kickstart files be at repo.meego.com (says so in wiki.meego.com) ? | 12:22 |
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| Stskeeps | think they were written long ago, so don't count on it | 12:23 |
| cyberkonsult | Ok, would be good if the Image_Creation_For_Beginners was up to date as soon as everything is released. | 12:26 |
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| Stskeeps | obviously | 12:26 |
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| cyberkonsult | A friend of mine has to install an acer aspire one (N450) today, so I was hoping to be able to test it (before giving him a stable install).. | 12:29 |
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| drizztbsd | where is the dual boot today release? :) | 12:44 |
| Stskeeps | engadget probably knows more | 12:44 |
| RST38h | So where is the promised day 1? =) | 12:46 |
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| ian_ | ? | 12:46 |
| dneary_ | RST38h, today | 12:47 |
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| iksaif | RST38h: all we will get will probably be on http://gitorious.org/meego | 12:48 |
| iksaif | hum http://meego.gitorious.com/ | 12:49 |
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| dneary_ | RST38h, patience - there are another 26 hours left in the day yet | 12:49 |
| drizztbsd | dneary_: it depends about the time zone :P | 12:51 |
| dneary_ | Even 28! | 12:51 |
| dneary_ | http://www.worldtimezone.com/utc/utc+1400.html | 12:51 |
| * drizztbsd is at GMT+2 / CEST :) | 12:51 | |
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| dneary_ | No - sorry, thet's the easternmost timezone | 12:52 |
| dneary_ | http://www.worldtimezone.com/utc/utc-1200.html is westernmost | 12:52 |
| dneary_ | So only 26 hours | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | the LHC didn't cause the expected end of the world, so now it has to be published :P | 12:53 |
| drizztbsd | Stskeeps: LHC is not at the maximum power yes | 12:54 |
| drizztbsd | :) | 12:54 |
| drizztbsd | yet* | 12:54 |
| iksaif | it would have been easier to say that the release would be on April 1 | 12:54 |
| drizztbsd | april fish :) | 12:54 |
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| dneary_ | Stskeeps, Did they create a mini black hole all the same? | 12:57 |
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| sun | . | 12:58 |
| sun | hi | 12:58 |
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| Stskeeps | dneary_: maybe we're in a time loop. day one repeating over and over. | 12:59 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:59 |
| dneary_ | Stskeeps, Does that mean I get to sleep with Andie McDowell later? | 12:59 |
| X-Fade | Groundhog day? | 12:59 |
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| ian_ | who | 13:00 |
| sun | hh | 13:00 |
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| RST38h | BTW what is meego spectacle? | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | spectacle is a tool to make rpms easier, quite nice | 13:01 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Ah, there is a Spectrum emulator with the same name AFAIK | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | and it's also the word for a theatre play in poland | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:03 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: yea, but that goes without saying (same word in Russian) | 13:04 |
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| bergie | launched a proof-of-concept for MeeGo Planet and Social News: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-March/000591.html | 13:04 |
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| sun | what | 13:11 |
| Stskeeps | whatwhat :P | 13:11 |
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| Tm_T | bergie: looks great to me | 13:16 |
| bergie | Tm_T: yep, I hope the rest of the MeeGo community likes that | 13:16 |
| bergie | would be great to have the system in place soon, as "Day One" is almost here | 13:17 |
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| slaine | Stskeeps: so where's the code :) | 13:23 |
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| Stskeeps | 23:59 gmt-14.. | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:25 |
| slaine | heheh | 13:25 |
| stonda | plenty of time left ;) | 13:25 |
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| thiago | there's no -14 | 13:44 |
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| thiago | -12 yes, +13, +13:30 and +13:45 too | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | well, +13:45 then | 13:45 |
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| * lcuk keeps hearing the 24 beep beep noises whenever he looks in this chan | 13:46 | |
| VDVsx | lcuk, waiting for meego release ? :D | 13:47 |
| * lcuk sees picture in picture between the actors | 13:48 | |
| Anss| | where is the download button? :) | 13:48 |
| lcuk | tho i still dont know which one is chloe o'brian | 13:49 |
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| maclaver | I am looking at the download page (http://meego.com/downloads), it says check back there to get the full source code. | 13:50 |
| maclaver | No source code yet...... | 13:50 |
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| slaine | I keep refreshing this | 13:51 |
| Anss| | i am refreshing it (in 20 s intervals) too.. :) | 13:51 |
| slaine | http://repo.meego.com/ | 13:51 |
| Anss| | thnx | 13:51 |
| slaine | what a bunch of nerds ;) | 13:51 |
| kad | just to mention, it's not a release today. just source code would be opened | 13:52 |
| Anss| | and proud of it | 13:52 |
| maclaver | repo.meego.com could win a prize for minimalist web design :-) | 13:52 |
| Anss| | mobile enhanced user experience | 13:52 |
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| slaine | kad, with code we can builds our own images | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | kad: source code or built code? | 13:54 |
| maclaver | meego.gitorious.org has a lot more links (still pretty thin on code). | 13:54 |
| kad | Stskeeps: src.rpm+i586/arm.rpms I think | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | fair enough, that's enough | 13:55 |
| kad | slaine: yeah, just don't expect too much :) | 13:55 |
| Anss| | maclaver, thanks for the tip. Seems pretty good starting point. | 13:55 |
| slaine | I expect code | 13:55 |
| slaine | I can handle the rest | 13:55 |
| maclaver | Anss|, you're welcome. | 13:56 |
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| slaine | Is it there yet ? | 14:20 |
| * slaine sniggers | 14:21 | |
| maclaver | Not on gitorious, repo, or /downloads yet. | 14:22 |
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| Stskeeps | 'are we there yet' | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:23 |
| slaine | What about now | 14:23 |
| maclaver | They said 31 March, which gives them ~9 hours in the Finnish timezone, but ~20 hours if we go to the furthest time zone ;-) | 14:23 |
| * CosmoHill goes looking for motivation | 14:23 | |
| slaine | Thankfully I've tonnes to do | 14:24 |
| CosmoHill | so do I | 14:24 |
| CosmoHill | but I require motivation | 14:24 |
| slaine | shall I tickle your tummy ? | 14:24 |
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| thiago | it's only 04:29 am in the US West Coast | 14:29 |
| CosmoHill | lunchtime here | 14:29 |
| w00t_ | what news! the world isn't on the one timezone | 14:29 |
| w00t_ | :-D | 14:29 |
| CosmoHill | i thought meego was using UTC | 14:30 |
| Anss| | UGT works everywhere :) | 14:31 |
| Anss| | http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html | 14:32 |
| CosmoHill | awesome | 14:33 |
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| Stskeeps | anyone with knowledge about wiki.meego.com around? | 14:47 |
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| Stskeeps | did any of you experience the issue where they couldn't edit the wiki? | 14:50 |
| X-Fade | Yes. | 14:50 |
| Stskeeps | what was the issue? | 14:50 |
| X-Fade | Go to the account settings in the wiki and set your email. | 14:50 |
| slaine | We've been locked out. It's a conspiracy | 14:50 |
| slaine | lol | 14:50 |
| X-Fade | Account sync is a bit broken-ish. | 14:51 |
| w00t_ | I love how SSO creates as many issues as it solves | 14:51 |
| X-Fade | w00t_: It was probably a hack job to get something in place quickly. Now this can be developed properly. | 14:52 |
| w00t_ | that's a bit long for a hack to have existed, but I suppose improvement is always a possibility, maybe, one day | 14:53 |
| X-Fade | w00t_: Works nicely for us at maemo.org at least. | 14:53 |
| w00t_ | what works nicely? certainly not SSO | 14:56 |
| X-Fade | w00t_: main site and wiki is not a problem. | 14:56 |
| * w00t_ had to help a very confused significant other get all her *.maemo.org accounts sorted out yesterday | 14:56 | |
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| Ian_ | ^^ | 15:18 |
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| CosmoHill | hey I've just thought | 15:24 |
| CosmoHill | I'm legally old enough to drink in the states :D | 15:24 |
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| kebax | does meego netbook flavour feel touch? | 15:29 |
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| lcuk | kebax, it will even shed real tears if you touch it inappropriately | 15:34 |
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| kebax | I was just wondering how it will work in, say, T91 | 15:35 |
| slaine | kebax: I don't think netbook flavor will have touch support by default | 15:36 |
| kebax | okay | 15:36 |
| slaine | I know the Moblin guys where working on a MID version that would, keyboard support etc. | 15:36 |
| kebax | chrome seems to do that | 15:36 |
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| slaine | That was due to come out in Moblin 2.2, so there may be a MeeGo 1.0 MID release sometime soon that does | 15:37 |
| CosmoHill | lbt: you about? | 15:37 |
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| lbt | no | 15:37 |
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| CosmoHill | lbt: http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showpost.php?p=470558&postcount=8 | 15:37 |
| kebax | ummm, netbook with touchscreen... is that netbook at all? | 15:38 |
| CosmoHill | you mean tablets? | 15:38 |
| Surfa | why not? | 15:38 |
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| kebax | like eeepc t91 | 15:38 |
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| TheBootroo | hello | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | wello | 16:20 |
| TheBootroo | how are you guys ? | 16:20 |
| TheBootroo | do you have some news about MeeGo's release time ? | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | today, 23:59 GMT-13.45 latest | 16:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:21 |
| TheBootroo | it have been announed for today normally... | 16:21 |
| TheBootroo | but | 16:21 |
| thiago | 12:44 < thiago> -12 yes, +13, +13:30 and +13:45 too | 16:21 |
| thiago | not -13:45 | 16:21 |
| w00t_ | lol | 16:21 |
| * Stskeeps fails | 16:21 | |
| w00t_ | Stskeeps: so much fail. | 16:22 |
| TheBootroo | sure for today ? | 16:22 |
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| w00t_ | TheBootroo: nothing that would make people believe otherwise, so. | 16:24 |
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| Stskeeps | don't mind the headless chicken | 16:25 |
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| karkare | Is there API for framebuffer accessing ...anyone?? | 16:37 |
| TheBootroo | will gmail exchange be supported in meego ? | 16:37 |
| TheBootroo | do we have any sort of pre-release changelog for meego TP ? | 16:39 |
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| slaine | We know nothing yet | 16:40 |
| thiago | nor I | 16:40 |
| Stskeeps | it'll probably be a release and then everyone involved goes on vacation ;) | 16:41 |
| TheBootroo | but do we know who is working actively (i hope) on the project ? | 16:41 |
| Stskeeps | only some people are publically known | 16:41 |
| TheBootroo | but meego developpement process is open it isn't ? | 16:42 |
| w00t_ | it -will- be, yes | 16:42 |
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| TheBootroo | ok | 16:42 |
| slaine | TheBootroo: It's opening up to the publin today, at some point | 16:42 |
| TheBootroo | so i will continue to wait today for release | 16:42 |
| slaine | hopefully before 20:00 UTC | 16:42 |
| TheBootroo | it would be good :) | 16:42 |
| TheBootroo | ok | 16:42 |
| TheBootroo | so | 16:42 |
| TheBootroo | bb | 16:42 |
| slaine | TheBootroo: Theres no release of Meego 1.0 today, that's May. Today the source/repo's for the project are open | 16:43 |
| slaine | but there's probably going to be OS images that developers can use to test | 16:43 |
| TheBootroo | see you later on this channel after the 'release' | 16:43 |
| TheBootroo | i'm a dev :-) | 16:43 |
| TheBootroo | ;-) | 16:43 |
| TheBootroo | b++; | 16:44 |
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| karkare | hey..Is there any API for accessing framebuffer.... | 16:45 |
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| slaine | karkare: there's nothing for anything as of yet | 16:46 |
| Stskeeps | karkare: look at what linux has | 16:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:46 |
| karkare | ok | 16:46 |
| karkare | ok | 16:46 |
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| karkare | thanks | 16:47 |
| qwertyuiop | oh they havent released any meego source yet? | 16:47 |
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| karkare | but I found this API...EZFB...but my question is that whether we can use API or what linux have we have to use it...? | 16:48 |
| ZhuYanhai | why you can't access frame buffer as in normal linux distro like fedora? | 16:48 |
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| karkare | ok..but I am new to this concept to is there any tutorial..i found non on the internet | 16:49 |
| ZhuYanhai | I'm new too :) | 16:49 |
| karkare | ok | 16:49 |
| karkare | where to read about it... | 16:50 |
| hjsm | slaine, will Meego SDK be released today? Without it, it's not very useful for developers. | 16:51 |
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| Stskeeps | define sdk | 16:51 |
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| X-Fade | define developers :) | 16:52 |
| hjsm | developer can use it to develope Meego application. Something like Moblin SDK, Maemo SDK, etc | 16:52 |
| ZhuYanhai | sdk = libc + glib + xxxlib + gcc + vim/emacs + gdb | 16:52 |
| CosmoHill | X-Fade: single people who fear sunlight and fresh air :p | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | emacs might be putting the stakes too high | 16:52 |
| X-Fade | CosmoHill: Hehe | 16:53 |
| ZhuYanhai | you can run emacs on meego, if you want | 16:53 |
| CosmoHill | I'm glad I don't park at uni | 16:53 |
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| Stskeeps | ZhuYanhai: if you want, yes :P | 16:53 |
| CosmoHill | they're putting prices up for parking so it would cost an extra £5 a week to mark | 16:53 |
| CosmoHill | park* | 16:53 |
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| ZhuYanhai | meego is pure native linux. so basically you can use anything you like to develop applications. | 16:54 |
| slaine | hjsm: nothings been said. Today is Day 1 of the project, so I very much doubt the SDK pack will be available today | 16:54 |
| slaine | It took a long time for the Moblin SDK to come out after Moblin2 was released | 16:55 |
| X-Fade | There is supposed to be a code dump. | 16:55 |
| slaine | And that's fine for most of us | 16:55 |
| X-Fade | A kernel tarball would already be just that ;) | 16:55 |
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| hjsm | Then, how do you expect developer to play with it? Using old Moblin/Maemo stuff? | 16:55 |
| X-Fade | hjsm: It is not a release. | 16:56 |
| X-Fade | hjsm: Wait for the first release for that. | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | 'sdk' is a wide term | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | if you mean a chroot, maybe | 16:57 |
| ZhuYanhai | and qt-creator, maybe | 16:57 |
| leinir | hjsm: So, are you interested in... developing end-user apps? system hacking? ...? | 16:57 |
| hjsm | I don't like the chroot. And not sure how it works for ARM compiling. | 16:57 |
| netizen | come on merging two separate codebases can't be an easy task | 16:57 |
| leinir | hjsm: In case of the first of those, just grab the Qt SDK and start coding :) | 16:57 |
| hjsm | I believe all developers are interesting to change the existing package, adding new package, etc | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | hjsm: sign up or meego-sdk :) | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | for | 16:58 |
| hjsm | I already signed up Meego-sdk. :) | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | but yes, providing a good developer experience will be key | 17:00 |
| hjsm | another question, Moblin release including gcc/binutils inside the image. Will Meego image contain them too? So we can boot Meego image and develop. | 17:00 |
| hjsm | boot Meego image or chroot to Meego image for development | 17:00 |
| slaine | hjsm: come back tomorrow, we'll know more then | 17:00 |
| slaine | all we're able to do is guess | 17:00 |
| ZhuYanhai | gcc/binutils won't be installed by default | 17:01 |
| hjsm | Sure, thanks. | 17:01 |
| slaine | ZhuYanhai: there might be developer images though | 17:01 |
| slaine | which is what hjsm is asking | 17:01 |
| slaine | There was for Moblin | 17:01 |
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| slaine | hjsm: even if there's not, it'll be just a case of doing, yum groupinstall "Development Tools" | 17:02 |
| ZhuYanhai | developer image = normal image + yum groupinstall "development tools", for moblin at least | 17:02 |
| slaine | nod | 17:02 |
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| slaine | and "Moblin Desktop Devel" | 17:02 |
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| ZhuYanhai | there's few packages in that desktop devel IFIRC | 17:02 |
| hjsm | Will QtCreator be included from yum groupinstall "development tools" | 17:03 |
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| slaine | we don't know | 17:03 |
| ZhuYanhai | not sure. | 17:03 |
| slaine | like I said, we're just guessing | 17:03 |
| slaine | you don't seem to have grasped the "there's no information available yet" part :) | 17:04 |
| hjsm | Sorry, for my un-patient. I am realy eager to get these "SDK" things. Thanks again guys. | 17:04 |
| Stskeeps | hjsm: check your messages | 17:04 |
| CosmoHill | hmm, why are some cables so hard to find :( | 17:04 |
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| lauri | hello guys | 17:08 |
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| lauri | Can anybody tell me the exact date when Meego was announced? | 17:09 |
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| slaine | lauri: http://meego.com/community/blogs/imad/2010/welcome-meego | 17:09 |
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| CosmoHill | 1st march IIRC | 17:09 |
| slaine | 15th February | 17:09 |
| CosmoHill | it was still a monday | 17:10 |
| ZhuYanhai | 15th February | 17:10 |
| slaine | You didn't say anything about a Monday CosmoHill | 17:10 |
| CosmoHill | shh | 17:10 |
| lauri | so 15th? | 17:10 |
| slaine | yes | 17:10 |
| slaine | see the link | 17:10 |
| lauri | my bad | 17:11 |
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| ezjd | To check the MeeGo code was the first thing after I woke up but got an incomplete gitorious repo only. Can we have time to look at the code before meeting today? | 17:34 |
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| Stskeeps | patienc | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | e | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:34 |
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| karkare | Is meeGo code available on site?? | 17:35 |
| CosmoHill | sometime today i think | 17:36 |
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| karkare | ok | 17:36 |
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| VDVsx | what time is the meeting today ? 20h UTC again ? | 17:37 |
| CosmoHill | yep | 17:37 |
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| VDVsx | oh 23h here. a bit late :( | 17:39 |
| slaine | Hmm | 17:40 |
| Ian_ | 2240 | 17:40 |
| slaine | I'm on IST now, so that probably means 21:00 IST | 17:40 |
| slaine | as UTC doesn't follow the summer hour change | 17:40 |
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| X-Fade | It is a point on the agenda :) | 17:41 |
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| CosmoHill | :) | 17:41 |
| VDVsx | current utc time is 2:40pm | 17:41 |
| * CosmoHill is BST | 17:41 | |
| slaine | yup, will defo be 21:00 for us CosmoHill then | 17:41 |
| CosmoHill | you're british? | 17:42 |
| slaine | Irish | 17:43 |
| CosmoHill | close enough | 17:43 |
| * slaine gets his guns | 17:43 | |
| slaine | Ah, gave them up | 17:43 |
| slaine | damn amnesties | 17:43 |
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| ezjd | In all my previous projects wherever I was working, releasing something on a certain day always means release on last minute of that day in PST if not delayed :-) | 17:46 |
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| Surfa | typical | 17:49 |
| Surfa | if we have a deadline at XX hours, why not work until then to make everything as smooth as possible.. even that everything was ready earlier :) | 17:49 |
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| bfree | lots to be found now on repo.meego.com | 18:09 |
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| th0br0 | cheers bfree :D | 18:12 |
| Stskeeps | there goes the bandwidth.. | 18:12 |
| th0br0 | banshee-1-backend-platform-meego-1.5.99-1.3.i586.rpm huhu | 18:13 |
| th0br0 | what are you dling, Stskeeps? | 18:13 |
| th0br0 | the n900 image? | 18:13 |
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| th0br0 | nvm that question | 18:13 |
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| Stskeeps | morning DawnFoster | 18:13 |
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| DawnFoster | afternoon stskeeps | 18:14 |
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| th0br0 | hello DawnFoster | 18:14 |
| DawnFoster | hi th0br0 | 18:14 |
| DawnFoster | quiet day - not much going on :) | 18:15 |
| th0br0 | true :) | 18:15 |
| mitsutaka_ | hello there, | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: a couple of minutes ago people found the repos.. | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:15 |
| w00t_ | and are now probably trying to browse around before they grow old and die | 18:16 |
| DawnFoster | yeah, things are starting to trickle out, and it's not even midnight yet :) | 18:16 |
| th0br0 | there is nothing interesting on them anyway imho | 18:16 |
| th0br0 | http://bugzilla.meego.com/ ;) but yeah | 18:17 |
| Myrtti | morning | 18:17 |
| th0br0 | there even are a couple of bugs o.O | 18:18 |
| th0br0 | [Dell 5540] huhu | 18:18 |
| th0br0 | Calpella Notebook ;) | 18:18 |
| th0br0 | MeeGo 1.0 preview << now where is that preview... | 18:19 |
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| DawnFoster | we have to give you guys *something* to write patches for :) | 18:19 |
| th0br0 | :) too bad that download.meego.com points to repo.meego.com (or the other way round) | 18:20 |
| th0br0 | and garage.mg.c only points to the main page either | 18:20 |
| th0br0 | http://wiki.meego.com/Bugzilla/how-report-bugs ;) | 18:22 |
| DawnFoster | we're still updating the web site, so not everything is done there. | 18:22 |
| th0br0 | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Creating_ARM_image_using_MIC2 go go go! | 18:22 |
| th0br0 | DawnFoster: does that mean that we'll be able to run meego in qemU? | 18:23 |
| th0br0 | apparently. | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | wait, what? :P | 18:23 |
| th0br0 | Or just what is mic2? | 18:24 |
| DawnFoster | the official download page is actually http://meego.com/downloads | 18:24 |
| DawnFoster | which hasn't been updated yet | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | th0br0: mic2 is the image creator | 18:24 |
| th0br0 | ah ok | 18:24 |
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| th0br0 | well, i'll wait for tonite. there isn't much interesting up on the wiki yet | 18:26 |
| th0br0 | s/tonite/tonight/ | 18:26 |
| infobot | th0br0 meant: well, i'll wait for tonight. there isn't much interesting up on the wiki yet | 18:26 |
| th0br0 | oh what does CDK stand for? (in context: "Hardware tested on: CDK and Aava") | 18:29 |
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| mitsutaka_ | kernel-shcdk seems to be optimized for Moorestown platform for CDK. | 18:31 |
| th0br0 | it's funny to see however how pretty much all intel employees seem to be chinese (or indian) | 18:32 |
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| DawnFoster | th0b0r: we're (intel) a pretty diverse bunch of people. Lots of us from US, Europe, etc. on the team too :) | 18:34 |
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| th0br0 | :) Yeah, I noticed that further down the page, the amount of english / us names was increasing | 18:35 |
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| petteri | looking at: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_native_install_on_N900 there might be some images available later. at least I am hoping for those :) | 18:37 |
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| th0br0 | well, it's just that the weekly image page on repo.meego.com isn't there yet... | 18:38 |
| th0br0 | however, there exists some 0319 and some 0316-002 (likely also a 0316-001) image ... | 18:38 |
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| th0br0 | http://mashable.com/2010/02/24/open-source-threatens-capitalism/ o.O | 19:00 |
| CosmoHill | matrix + green terminal = productivity++ | 19:00 |
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| bfree | the first non-free Nokia image is up on tablets-dev.nokia.com meego-codedrop-arm-n900-closed-201003311635.ubiimg (74,997,760 bytes) | 19:01 |
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| CosmoHill | thopiekar: rofl, that's an iMac G3 in the corner of the commy poster | 19:01 |
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| petteri | so here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php | 19:10 |
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| Stskeeps | that needs a kernel too | 19:11 |
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| thiago_home | hint: you can get your IMEI by typing *#06# in the phone app | 19:12 |
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| petteri | i would be nice if the download page would state that | 19:15 |
| petteri | it | 19:15 |
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| thiago_home | this works on every GSM phone | 19:15 |
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| leinir | thiago_home: Yes, but as we all know, the n900 is not a phone... *sunglasses* ;) | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_native_install_on_N900 | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ECHAN | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | changes welcome | 19:16 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 19:17 | |
| CosmoHill | ooo | 19:18 |
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| *** Stskeeps changes topic to "MeeGo - http://meego.com - FAQ: http://meego.com/about/faq | This channel is logged, see them at http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Whos_who - add yourself | Blog post, Towards Day One: http://tinyurl.com/ylmt7fu | 2nd TSG meeting 31/3/2010 20:00 UTC, http://tinyurl.com/ygsxrr4 in #meego-meeting, questions in #meego-meeting-questions" | 19:18 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o Stskeeps | 19:18 | |
| th0br0 | 19:18 | |
| th0br0 | Error creating thumbnail: | 19:18 |
| th0br0 | libgomp: Thread creation failed: Resource temporarily unavailable << someone should fix that | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | what's that? :P | 19:18 |
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| th0br0 | http://wiki.meego.com/File:Bug-life-cycle.PNG | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | bugzilla.meego.com | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:19 |
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| th0br0 | good idea | 19:19 |
| th0br0 | done. | 19:20 |
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| CosmoHill | is that Mr Shaver or Mrs Haver? | 19:21 |
| thiago_home | if you put your N900 in R&D mode, tell me if the keyboard blinks after the screen has turned off | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | that's fairly normal | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | it illustrates cpu usage | 19:22 |
| bfree | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/n900/repo/arm/os/armv5tel/kernel-n900-2.6.28-2.1.armv5tel.rpm should probably give the correct kernel zImage (vmlinuz-2.6.28-2.1-n900 1776088 bytes) for these first meego images ... I need a second N900 to play with | 19:22 |
| th0br0 | Stskeeps: shouldn't be there nonetheless | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | hmm? :P | 19:22 |
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| * thiago_home has only one N900 | 19:23 | |
| CosmoHill | gah, my balloon almost flew out the window | 19:23 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders if the "you may cause damage to your battery" warnings aren't a bit exaggerated. I mean there's a quite smart bq24150 chip taking care about battery, which isn't supposed to do any harm to the cell, when just operated in power-on default mode | 19:23 | |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: the problem is more that it can discharge your battery to a level where n900 refuses both to charge and startup | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: shouldn't happen. AIUI bq24150 is 'selfcontained bootable' | 19:24 |
| thiago_home | can't the battery discharge like that on its own, by leaving the device off? | 19:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | means charging should start even on a completely drained cell, without any interaction of SoC needed | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: either way, it's there for good measure, jebba trashed his fs'es that way, so it's worth noting :P | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe only 100mA, but nevertheless | 19:26 |
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| thiago_home | btw, you can start the N900 without the battery | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | with a jig | 19:27 |
| Manuk | are you installing meego? | 19:27 |
| thiago_home | with a USB cable | 19:27 |
| thiago_home | if you're worried about damaging it, don't put it in | 19:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: crashing fs on a unadvertised hard powerdown is a common issue to (virtually) all OS, and not related to "doing harm to the device", at least fs corruption isn't ewxactly what I feel scared of when I read that warning | 19:29 |
| thiago_home | just reflash it :-) | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | eactly | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly even | 19:30 |
| ShadowJK | thiagoL and it actually runs on power from usb [charger]? | 19:30 |
| thiago_home | ShadowJK: I think so | 19:31 |
| drizztbsd | DocScrutinizer: and the dual boot? | 19:31 |
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| thiago_home | if it can charge the battery from USB, that means the USB can supply more power than the device consumes | 19:31 |
| thiago_home | otherwise, the battery would continue draining instead of charge :-P | 19:31 |
| thiago_home | that would be silly | 19:32 |
| lcuk | actually thiago whilst actively using the device you can have negative equity | 19:32 |
| lcuk | from usb | 19:32 |
| ShadowJK | thiago_home, anecdotally it doesn't work, and the specs for the charging chip suggests it "does nothing" if battery is missing | 19:32 |
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| thiago_home | ok, I stand corrected then | 19:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep, and e.g. GPRS activity is creating surges that may exceed 2A just for modem. Battery is mandatory to buffer those | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | drizztbsd: (dual boot) sorry I don't get your question | 19:34 |
| lcuk | best method to charge any device is to reduce the current draw, so turning off screens and radios and stop running heavy processing apps can more than double charging speed | 19:35 |
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| drizztbsd | DocScrutinizer: is there any procedure to have the dual boot? (meego + moblin) | 19:35 |
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| drizztbsd | ops maemo* | 19:36 |
| ShadowJK | thiago_home, from the "leaked" schematics of disputed accuracy, Gaia is indeed connected to vbus (usb), but I don't know if it can take 5V from there and supply power to the omap side.. vbat would still be dead, and a number of things take power straight from there, including entire cellmo half.. | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | drizztbsd: sorry I'm a total noob on both meego and moblin, as well as for any bootloader related questions | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | there's kexec instructions, go explore :) | 19:37 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 19:39 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: (disputed accuracy) my recent enterprise revealed no apparent diffs between the schematics and my device. (VBUS of GAIA for powering PMU) interesting question | 19:40 |
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| slaine | what have I missed Stskeeps | 19:41 |
| meegomesseng | hi anyone interested in the messenger for meego then ping me | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: wiki.meego.com steaming with info | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:42 |
| bfree | the maemo kernel won't kexec though (either load another kernel or be loaded by another kernel)? so if I understand right for dual boot either maemo pr1.2 needs to fix that or use the same kernel as meego? | 19:42 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, since there's a sysfs node called vbus in one of the gaia subdirs, I'm guessing it's just a sensor thing though | 19:42 |
| DawnFoster | I just looked at the recent changes for the wiki and it scared me away - lots of changes | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I agree | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | bfree: you need to patch your maemo kernel, getting loaded is fine | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: are there any sysfs nodes regarding bq24150? | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/regarding/related to | 19:44 |
| * DocScrutinizer thinks getting loaded is absolutely fine, late in the night at your favoirite pub ;-) | 19:45 | |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, none | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: :-( | 19:48 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, however, noth bq24150 and 27200 are on i2c-2, and bme has opened /dev/i2c-2 twice | 19:48 |
| ShadowJK | So if I had to guess, bme is talking to both. | 19:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm sure. I was more interested in switching bq24150 to hostmode | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | i.e supplying 5.05V@200mA to VBUS | 19:50 |
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| ShadowJK | btw, bq24150 mentions/warns that the chip can have difficulties detecting end of charge when charge current sense is before both battery and sysload (as on n900) if system load is significant | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's incredible how maemo managed to eliminate all hooks to a working USB hostmode | 19:51 |
| ShadowJK | bme might be using bq27200, which sees total current in/out to terminate and (re)start charge from software | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: same as on OM freerunner | 19:51 |
| * RST38h yawns and swallows a live hampster | 19:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: bq24150 also mentions some timer to stop charging unconditionally AIUI (complete study of datasheet still pending) | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: see | 19:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~batteryfaq | 19:54 |
| infobot | from memory, batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | for reasoning behind stopping CV-charging | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | err | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | 1. Make sure your device is turned off and the battery is fully charged. | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | 2. Remove the battery from the device. | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | contradictions, shall I edit the wiki? | 19:54 |
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| MohammadAG | (the N900 doesn't boot without the battery afaik) | 19:54 |
| thiago_home | MohammadAG: no | 19:54 |
| ShadowJK | as I understand it, if iwc lines are dead it charges if usb phy tells it to charge via otg pin | 19:55 |
| ShadowJK | i2c* | 19:55 |
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| thiago_home | MohammadAG: charge battery, remove battery, plug USB, run flasher, put battery back on | 19:55 |
| trumee | meego code dump happened yet? | 19:55 |
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| ShadowJK | if i2c is alive, it requires periodic prodding from host to not stop charging | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not really relevant if you 'charge'the cell to 4.20V until I(thres) is tripped, or you simply stop charging after a few hours. | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | trumee: slowly happening | 19:55 |
| trumee | Stskeeps: great. | 19:56 |
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| anotnac | anyone flashed meego on n900 | 19:57 |
| ShadowJK | Closer stufy of datasheet is needed, it talks about Vreg (iirc).. I got the impression it only charges unattended to bare minimum energy requirements to energize the host | 19:57 |
| losinggeneration | exciting, there are now what looks to be only some of the git repos up now. (this is only in the last day or so right?) | 19:57 |
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| losinggeneration | as in, they haven't been public for more than a day or so | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: (OTG) exactly. 1707 detects D+/- short (the USB specs compliant signal it's a charger) and enables bq24150 "fast charge" via CHRG_DET -> OTG | 19:58 |
| Ian_ | how flasher meego | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | by following the instructions | 19:59 |
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| drizztbsd | is "apt-get source kernel" still the correct way to recompile the kernel for kexec? | 20:00 |
| drizztbsd | ? | 20:00 |
| drizztbsd | or should I use the rpm? | 20:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: Stskeeps: anyway there's no apparent situation where you encounter charge deadlock due to drained battery | 20:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: Stskeeps: bq24150 even enables the yellow charging notification LED(s) completely autonomously | 20:02 |
| ShadowJK | The stat pin is connected to make yellow on the Led, nut can be turned off by software, which bme probably does, since it pulses/glows instead of shining steadily if driven by bq24150 | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: exactly | 20:02 |
| * ShadowJK is making so many typos on n900 today, ircing from work | 20:02 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, bq24150 will POR to sane values, starting charging of battery. So *without BME* (or any other sw) interfering there is no chance for neither running into flat-bat-don't-charge deadlock, nor will it overcharge the battery. The whole FUD about N900 kills battery without BME is eactly that - FUD | 20:06 |
| anotnac | omg the image link for meego as been posted on forums, i predict a rush of noobs at care centre in the morning | 20:07 |
| drizztbsd | is the zImage-arm-n900 patched for kexec? | 20:08 |
| MohammadAG_ | thiago_home, flashed my device, but again, the N900 won't go into flashing mode without the battery | 20:09 |
| * DocScrutinizer starts to offer a "recover fro meego" support. Just 50 bucks / device ;-) | 20:09 | |
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| anotnac | lol | 20:09 |
| Sage | drizztbsd: unfortunately it is not, as far as I know. | 20:10 |
| drizztbsd | DocScrutinizer: useless, n900 does not bricks | 20:10 |
| drizztbsd | brick* | 20:10 |
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| MohammadAG_ | is the MeeGo build just a bash shell? | 20:11 |
| spoussa | MohammadAG_: yes | 20:12 |
| qgil | everybody, please wait for the announcement at meego.com before flashing anything | 20:12 |
| auke | lol | 20:13 |
| Sage | drizztbsd: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_kexec_install_on_N900 | 20:13 |
| thiago_home | qgil: too late :-P | 20:13 |
| auke | yeah, don't go about flashing :) | 20:13 |
| auke | you might end up "naked" | 20:13 |
| * auke giggles | 20:13 | |
| thiago_home | since when do hackers wait for instructions? | 20:13 |
| drizztbsd | so no GUI? also on closed release? | 20:13 |
| thiago_home | drizztbsd: xterm is GUI | 20:14 |
| qgil | thiago_home: is a logged sentence I can quote if anybody comes with mismatched expectations :) | 20:14 |
| drizztbsd | thiago_home: only xterm? xeyes or xclock? :P | 20:14 |
| auke | twm | 20:14 |
| auke | love it | 20:14 |
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| thiago_home | be glad the N900 has a keyboard | 20:15 |
| * thiago_home wonders if the xkb map is correct | 20:15 | |
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| CosmoHill | rawr | 20:16 |
| CosmoHill | damn linked lists of doom!! | 20:16 |
| thiago_home | would be interesting to have an xterm as UI in a touch-only device, without vkb | 20:16 |
| lcuk | would be good to have morse code entry as input method | 20:17 |
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| * microlith spies the meego image | 20:18 | |
| microlith | can it be loaded on an SD card and booted? | 20:18 |
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| microlith | mmm | 20:19 |
| * losinggeneration thinks this room is going to be very crazy over the next few days | 20:19 | |
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| thiago_home | give kids a toy... | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 20:20 |
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| losinggeneration | thiago_home: at this point it's like saying, here's what you've been anxiously awaiting, but don't touch it. Don't play with it. Probably best if you just turn your back to it and not even look at it, but it's there :) | 20:21 |
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| lcuk | is there a log of last weeks meeting | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | so it's still Christmas evening | 20:21 |
| losinggeneration | basically | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | s/evening/eve/ | 20:21 |
| infobot | thiago_home meant: so it's still Christmas eve | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | soon it will turn to Christmas morning | 20:21 |
| thiago_home | I just had a double take watching TV | 20:22 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: minutes from last TSG meeting http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/ | 20:22 |
| thiago_home | watching Fifth Gear and the narrator said "I had a few tricks up my sleeve to make me go quicker" | 20:22 |
| thiago_home | "me go" (quicker) | 20:22 |
| dirkhh_ | nice, thiago | 20:23 |
| dirkhh_ | that's what we want for branding... your brain fills in the reat | 20:23 |
| dirkhh_ | s/reat/rest/ | 20:23 |
| infobot | dirkhh_ meant: that's what we want for branding... your brain fills in the rest | 20:23 |
| thiago_home | heh | 20:23 |
| thiago_home | but I wondered for half a second why Fifth Gear was talking about MeeGo | 20:23 |
| qgil | http://meego.com/community/blogs/imad/2010/day-1-here-opening-meego-development | 20:24 |
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| thiago_home | qgil: can we flash now? :-P | 20:26 |
| gaveen | qgil, So it's official. Can I go and shout in Twitter? :) | 20:26 |
| mlfoster | also on home page: meego.com | 20:26 |
| lcuk | so the widget gallery valhalla_ mentioned is not in this release? | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | FOSS meego, with closed Nokia BME - lol. Exactly what we were asking for, no? | 20:28 |
| microlith | BME? | 20:28 |
| thiago_home | DocScrutinizer: you can install without it | 20:29 |
| gaveen | lcuk, I'm guessing there's still time for that... "in the next few days, we will post the next steps leading to the first release of MeeGo in May." | 20:29 |
| spoussa | yes, you have an option: BME or not. Happy ? | 20:30 |
| Sage | microlith: Battery Management Entity | 20:30 |
| microlith | ahh | 20:30 |
| qgil | lcuk: as for today MeeGo integrates from Kernel to Qt | 20:30 |
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| microlith | I'd prefer everything be open, but a step's a step | 20:30 |
| * microlith doesn't buy the explodanbatteries argument | 20:30 | |
| * lcuk nods | 20:30 | |
| microlith | so, cool | 20:31 |
| trumee | what does BME do? | 20:31 |
| microlith | and to ask again, I'm assuming the N900 image uploaded is ubifs, can that image be placed on an SD card and booted? | 20:32 |
| microlith | trumee: handles battery charging | 20:32 |
| Jaffa | From the announcement, it's not clear what the N900 will boot into... | 20:33 |
| microlith | the page with the images says clearly it boots to a terminal | 20:33 |
| losinggeneration | microlith: what's in the tar.gz? Can it boot from a filesystem directly on a partition (assuming it's just a filesystem tar)? | 20:33 |
| slaine | hmm, still getting a 404 on the repo | 20:33 |
| slaine | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/test/trunk/ | 20:33 |
| microlith | losinggeneration: haven't had a chance to look yet | 20:33 |
| microlith | slaine: the domain doesn't resolve for me, but the gitorious link is quite active | 20:33 |
| * thiago_home starts cloning stuff before people eat up the bandwidth | 20:34 | |
| qgil | Jaffa: as for today MeeGo integrates from Kernel to Qt, and you get an Xterm command line prompt - all the images show the same content | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | microlith: (explodanbatteries) see backscroll. ShadowJK and me elaborathed on this | 20:34 |
| dirkhh_ | repo: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo should work | 20:34 |
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| slaine | dirkhh_: you can't drill down though | 20:34 |
| trumee | microlith: all nokia phones use proprietary charging technology? | 20:34 |
| slaine | the logo isn't much use ;) | 20:34 |
| Jaffa | microlith: That's what I was checking, since I'm not aware of there of anything for the N900 to anything other than a serial console or a GUI toolkit. | 20:34 |
| rsalveti | you can also get the tar.gz version and create a dual boot system, to test it without erasing anything from the n900 | 20:35 |
| qgil | Jaffa: in fact all the images are as close to full content as you can get, the differences are only in the lower level for specific hardware adaptation | 20:35 |
| Jaffa | qgil: is that a Qt x terminal? | 20:35 |
| Stskeeps | anyone got n900 image booting yet? | 20:35 |
| slaine | dirkhh_: Ah, weekly test is where everything is at present | 20:35 |
| qgil | slaine: which logo? | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | trumee: there's nothing proprietary in bq24150 USB battery charger chip | 20:35 |
| microlith | DocScrutinizer: so if BME isn't charging or protecting the battery... what's it doing? | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd dare to state it works just fine | 20:36 |
| BluesLee | qgil: what is the difference to the nokia image? | 20:36 |
| slaine | Hmmm, Xorg 1.8 and Intel 2.11 drivers | 20:37 |
| slaine | nice | 20:37 |
| microlith | rsalveti: thanks for that info, I'm assuming you can load it on an ext2/ext3 formatted sdcard and boot it? | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | nokia image has charging, bt and wlan firmware | 20:37 |
| qgil | I guess Stskeeps knows better than me | 20:37 |
| rsalveti | microlith: probably, like we have with mer | 20:37 |
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| BluesLee | Stskeeps: thanx | 20:37 |
| microlith | cool, I'll probably grab a 4GB card later today | 20:37 |
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| Stskeeps | (ie, the open image plus closed bits to make it usable on n900 hw) | 20:37 |
| trumee | has the qt based gui development already started at Nokia/Intel? | 20:38 |
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| thiago_home | repo.meego.com - 32.7 kB/s | 20:40 |
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| thiago_home | are people slashdotting it already? | 20:40 |
| lcuk | yes trumee - last weeks meeting valhalla_ said he was running maemo 6 ui framework (qt on x and it was fast and quite stable) | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it isn't the fastest | 20:40 |
| qgil | trumee: sure, the code is in its way... still some weeks to go | 20:40 |
| BluesLee | thiago_home: 19kn here | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: anybody bothered to actually test what's going to happen on a meego N900 without BME, when constantly hooked up to wallchager? | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: feel free to test, there is image without bme | 20:40 |
| ShadowJK | I imagine it'll run to 2.7V and shut down? | 20:40 |
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| qgil | DocScrutinizer: I would do that test with a Nokia battery :) | 20:41 |
| * michael_ wonders if Anas[z] is around, lurking under some pseudonym | 20:41 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: I'm not paid by Nokia or Intel to give testing guinea pig for them | 20:42 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: i personally only have my personal n900 but will try next time i have a spare one | 20:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw I elaborated on what I expect to happen. To verify this by own tests will help nothing, as it needs an 'official' statement of Nokia to push on this issue | 20:43 |
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| Stskeeps | you could ask those people who tested n900 for scratchability | 20:44 |
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| robsta | michael_: pinged him but he went offline shortly after, will keep eyes open for him | 20:45 |
| trumee | bt, wlan, wlan are the only proprietary parts of N900? what about camera, gps and video drivers? | 20:46 |
| rsalveti | probably they are not there | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | camera firmware is open, gps is nokia sw, 3d is imgtec | 20:46 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders if maybe Nokia is quite happy with this 'BME is all that separates you from doomsland' urban legend | 20:46 | |
| rsalveti | they just added the proprietary pieces that is necessary for the user to at least connect into a network | 20:46 |
| michael_ | robsta: thanks :-) | 20:47 |
| MrCoder | How's MeeGo? Anybody got it on there N900 yet? | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | i'm of the attitude that we have a good solution if people can gen their own images with the right bits with ease | 20:47 |
| microlith | MrCoder: it's a console, thus far | 20:47 |
| rsalveti | don't expect the video drivers to be open so soon :-) | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | even if they are closed | 20:47 |
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| rsalveti | microlith: so, no X? | 20:48 |
| bfree | anyone know what aava, netbook and shcdk are? http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/ | 20:48 |
| MrCoder | microlith: Is it ment to be? | 20:48 |
| rsalveti | yeah, forgot that the accelerated fbdev x11 video driver needs the sgx binaries | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | rsalveti: n900 has x | 20:48 |
| microlith | rsalveti: not as I understand it, the image download page explicitly says it boots into a terminal | 20:48 |
| rsalveti | Stskeeps: yeah, but I mean the meego image | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | rsalveti: fbdev works without if not modified to sgx | 20:49 |
| rsalveti | you can use the vanilla fbdev | 20:49 |
| rsalveti | yeah | 20:49 |
| trumee | is there porting of core N900 applications like Conversations, sofia-sip and skype happening at Nokia as well? | 20:49 |
| microlith | oh the links for the atom-based images just went up | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | trumee: bit too early to know | 20:49 |
| rsalveti | trumee: the good thing now is that we have another company creating products basing on the same core | 20:50 |
| MrCoder | I assumed it would have a GUI from day one, silly me lol | 20:50 |
| rsalveti | so it's now much easier to see open source components | 20:50 |
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| apoirier | Any with a kexec-enabled maemo kernel (build from http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_kexec_install_on_N900) ? | 20:50 |
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| DawnFoster | for anyone having a hard time navigating to trunk in the repo, it's here: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/test/trunk-test/ | 20:51 |
| DawnFoster | we have a broken link issue | 20:51 |
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| Stskeeps | someone needs to buy that thing more bandwidth | 20:52 |
| lcuk | are the images for intel devices and n900 using the same source components, or are they still distinct | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | same shared system | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | with some patches for arch diffs here and there | 20:53 |
| MrCoder | So still a long way off an all singing all dancing replacement to Maemo? | 20:53 |
| slaine | that poor server is getting hammered | 20:54 |
| lcuk | thats good news then :) i tohught the base systems of each side would take longer to combine | 20:54 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, is it the maemo base or the moblin base | 20:54 |
| lcuk | where most came from | 20:54 |
| qgil | MrCoder: MeeGo as a replacement for Maemo 5? You will see it coming thanks to MeeGo open development | 20:54 |
| dirkhh_ | it's a combination of the two | 20:54 |
| * drizztbsd has compiled and flashed the patched kernel :D | 20:55 | |
| Jaffa | dirkhh_: really? cool. the impression from day 0 was that it was going to be "just" the moblin packages ported to ARM | 20:55 |
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| lcuk | dirkhh_, it always was anyway theres always shared components, but which side is considered upstream to which - since patches are made on one side or the other | 20:55 |
| drizztbsd | Jaffa: meego uses qt, moblin uses clutter | 20:55 |
| qgil | Jaffa: and you wouldn't believe me when telling otherwise :) | 20:55 |
| dirkhh_ | Jaffa: the teams have worked together like crazy for the last two months | 20:56 |
| slaine | 17K/s, :( | 20:56 |
| ali1234 | honestly, it's still console right? there's only so many ways to put together a linux system that boots to console | 20:56 |
| rsalveti | yeah, veeeery slow | 20:56 |
| slaine | no meego fun 'til tomorrow at this rate | 20:56 |
| Jaffa | qgil: *I* always believe you, honest :) | 20:57 |
| dirkhh_ | ali1234: you'd be surprised | 20:57 |
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| dirkhh_ | and what we opened contains much more than just console | 20:57 |
| rsalveti | slaine: but the fun will be until you get at the console :-) | 20:57 |
| dirkhh_ | much of the infrastructure above is there | 20:57 |
| MrCoder | qgil: Yep, I think I had the wrong end of the stick, I assumed it would come with a gui and being able to use the phone as a phone as part of the image. | 20:57 |
| dirkhh_ | just none of the actual UI code (that still needs work) | 20:57 |
| Jaffa | dirkhh_: the cooperation is the be thing and being able to talk about it :) | 20:57 |
| qgil | ali1234: sure, but under that console you have the foundation for a unique Linux system, a winning stack :) | 20:57 |
| rsalveti | dirkhh_: but that comes basically from moblin, doesn't it? | 20:57 |
| Myrtti | meeehhh, the internet connection here at the hotel is so bad I almost feel like crying | 20:57 |
| slaine | MrCoder: in May perhaps :) | 20:57 |
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| slaine | congrats ImadSousou | 20:58 |
| ezjd | While downloading (seems takes forever :-( ), I am wondering how to build, OSB (where is it) or chroot to install necessry pksg? | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | dirkhh_: i really don't think i would be surprised | 20:58 |
| dirkhh_ | rsalveti: we're using OBS so we started from Moblin | 20:58 |
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| CosmoHill | http://pastebin.cross-lfs.org/6847 :( | 20:58 |
| dirkhh_ | but lots of shared work | 20:58 |
| MrCoder | slaine: At least the N900 has not been forgotten, thats made me happy :) | 20:58 |
| * thebootroo too | 20:58 | |
| slaine | nod | 20:59 |
| ImadSousou | hey slaine - thanks | 20:59 |
| ezjd | sorry I mean OBS | 20:59 |
| CosmoHill | one hour until the meeting starts | 20:59 |
| * Myrtti wants to go kick the router | 20:59 | |
| slaine | CosmoHill: 2 hours | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | ezjd: give it a bit on developer stuff, things still happening | 20:59 |
| rsalveti | MrCoder: can't be, because it's the best device if you want to test meego for arm | 20:59 |
| slaine | you forgot about BST | 20:59 |
| CosmoHill | dammit | 20:59 |
| rsalveti | they need it to be supported by n900 | 20:59 |
| Jaffa | drizztbsd: there's a lot of system under Qt to manage | 20:59 |
| qgil | CosmoHill: 2 hours until the TSG meeting starts | 20:59 |
| MrCoder | I cant wait to see how Meego turns out :) | 20:59 |
| thebootroo | how can i dual boot Meego on my N900 OR test X86 version on virtual machine ? | 20:59 |
| rsalveti | otherwise the community is not going to help that much :-) | 20:59 |
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| slaine | thebootroo: you can't | 21:00 |
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| thebootroo | why ? | 21:00 |
| slaine | different CPU arch's | 21:00 |
| apoirier | drizztbsd: "patched kernel" = maemo kernel with kexec ? | 21:00 |
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| Stskeeps | ezjd: technically you can install a devel env on your n900 :) | 21:00 |
| bfree | who can explain how xorg-x11-drv-mga snuck in to the repo ;-) | 21:00 |
| rsalveti | you can do a dual boot inside n900 | 21:00 |
| thebootroo | but it must run on ARM and X86 ? | 21:00 |
| thebootroo | no ? | 21:00 |
| dirkhh_ | bfree: beats me :-) | 21:00 |
| * slaine wipes the tears from his eyes | 21:01 | |
| Jaffa | qgil: What's the format for this evening's meeting? | 21:01 |
| dirkhh_ | thebootroo - two different images | 21:01 |
| ShadowJK | oh, bsi (battery third pin) is connected to both cellmo, and over a voltage divider to an adc pin on gaia.. cellmo side also has a current sense resistor for some reason.. | 21:01 |
| thebootroo | yes i know | 21:01 |
| qgil | Jaffa: like last week but better? :) | 21:01 |
| ezjd | Stskeep: I don't have a N900 :( I will try x86 build firstly | 21:01 |
| thebootroo | i'm downloadind two images | 21:01 |
| thebootroo | ;-) | 21:01 |
| ShadowJK | those cellmo bits are potentialy the only things bme would communicate with, for which we have no protocol documentation | 21:01 |
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| * thiago_home is downloading the qt4-4.6.1 src rpm to find out what patches were applied | 21:01 | |
| drizztbsd | apoirier: yes | 21:01 |
| trumee | can i burn atom image onto a usb stick and boot my core2duo with it for a testdrive? | 21:01 |
| ali1234 | trumee: yes | 21:02 |
| thebootroo | same question for me | 21:02 |
| ShadowJK | (and bme - hald-addon-bme protocol is also unknown for n900) | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | trumee: but only if you have intel graphics :) | 21:02 |
| thebootroo | shit | 21:02 |
| apoirier | drizztbsd: is it working fine ? Can you upload it somewhere ? | 21:02 |
| thebootroo | sry | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | or some other supported video card | 21:02 |
| Jaffa | qgil: not hard ;)qgil: exxcellent :) | 21:02 |
| trumee | ali1234: only nvidia here | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | nvidia is right out :/ | 21:02 |
| thebootroo | i have a nvidia so it will not work ? | 21:02 |
| slaine | ali1234: hopefully not for long | 21:02 |
| drizztbsd | apoirier: yes, but you should made the symlink by yourself | 21:02 |
| thebootroo | and with a virtual box ? | 21:03 |
| ali1234 | haha, until nouveau gets good, yes | 21:03 |
| thiago_home | every time I look, it will take more time to finish downloading | 21:03 |
| thebootroo | 10h for me :( | 21:03 |
| slaine | ali1234: or we package up the nvidia drivers | 21:03 |
| ezjd | According to the announcement, no UI except xserver and some toolkit (gtk, qt) are available so today's code drop is really for developer :) | 21:03 |
| BluesLee | stopping download now, dropped to 5kb/s | 21:03 |
| ShadowJK | "We" basically have enough information to reimplement bme from scratch.. though then we might also have to reimplement dsme, mce and hald-addon-bme... | 21:04 |
| thebootroo | for me 10,1 kb/s | 21:04 |
| trumee | ezjd: are there instructions on how to setup the development environment, scratchbox or MADDE? | 21:04 |
| thebootroo | what does bme mean ? | 21:04 |
| Jaffa | ShadowJK: Wasn't dsme supposed to be opened after Berlin Maemo summit? | 21:05 |
| ali1234 | bme is the program that controls battery charging on n900 | 21:05 |
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| thebootroo | ok | 21:05 |
| ezjd | trumee: I just asked, and I don't know | 21:05 |
| qgil | trumee: what you can do is http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment | 21:05 |
| koupsa | a child from intel and nokia (who is the father, who is the mother?) is born, weight 392M | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: dsme is | 21:05 |
| * CosmoHill wonders if slaine is any good with linked lists | 21:05 | |
| ali1234 | it is closed source so if you want a fully open source OS on n900 you have to stay plugged in to AC all the time | 21:05 |
| thebootroo | koupsa: ;lol | 21:05 |
| qgil | still not the Qt Creator MADDE etc pieces integrated, working on it trumee | 21:05 |
| ShadowJK | ali1234, I suspect it would actually drain battery empty | 21:05 |
| ali1234 | ShadowJK: yes and then you would never be able to charge it again without flashing back to the original firmware | 21:06 |
| Manuk | did you see this? instructions for n900 install http://maemoarena.com/2010/03/meego-now-available-for-download-for-nokia-n900/ | 21:06 |
| ezjd | qgil: that link is good enough to me :) | 21:06 |
| thebootroo | for my part, i don't really care about proprietary drivers while they are maintened, but i want free framework so qt is a good option ;-) | 21:06 |
| prpplague | what hardware platform are most meego devrs using to develop on? | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | ezjd, images are stilll making it to servers but if you need any help, poke me | 21:06 |
| slaine | CosmoHill: what's the problem ? | 21:07 |
| ezjd | Stskeeps: Thx! | 21:07 |
| CosmoHill | mind if i PM you to keep the channel clean? | 21:07 |
| slaine | sure | 21:07 |
| ShadowJK | ali1234, I think it would partially charge it when device is "off" | 21:07 |
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| ezjd | koupsa: Interesting thins is that N900/ARM rootfs is only ~110MB | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | ezjd: and feedback, feedback, feedback :) developers have a tendancy to be blind to issues when working too much with areas, so feedback wanted | 21:08 |
| lcuk | ezjd, good things come in small packages | 21:09 |
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| lcuk | the smaller the better | 21:09 |
| thebootroo | but can't i put this image on my MMC instead of rootfs cause i dont want to drop maemo for the moment ? | 21:09 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: i'm tempted to quote you on that | 21:09 |
| lcuk | w00t_, its a common quote | 21:09 |
| ali1234 | 110MB is a lot for an image that has no UI yet, in my opinion | 21:09 |
| ezjd | lcuk: much better than I expected as moblin is so big | 21:09 |
| qgil | ali1234: there is a lot of polishing needed in the OBS | 21:09 |
| lcuk | but if you want 10000000 apps on your device you need to keep each of them small and light - even with however many Tb will be available | 21:09 |
| DawnFoster | BTW, we | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: I really think meego is broken at birth if there are no sane sysfs nodes to interface a well documented chip like bq27200 and bq24150, and rather Nokia insists on handling the whole story like they'd be inventors of CC/CV LiIon charging | 21:09 |
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| ali1234 | speaking of OBS, is meego OBS open for business yet? | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: meego n900 hw adaptation, let's focus | 21:10 |
| koupsa | ezjd, euh maybe i don't now i actually ownload imageusb for atom notebook 392M | 21:10 |
| lcuk | ezjd, well moblin could afford to be more bloated, maemo has a history of fitting inside miniature devices | 21:10 |
| DawnFoster | We're trying to get some additional mirrors to handle the server load. | 21:10 |
| w00t_ | DawnFoster: mind if I message you privately a minute? | 21:11 |
| w00t_ | -> for a minute | 21:11 |
| spoussa | ali1234: OBS is not open, the repos are the end results of the OBS builds. | 21:11 |
| DawnFoster | w00t_: sure | 21:11 |
| ezjd | koupsa: I won't try this imageusb soon, but maybe moblin has some instruction? | 21:11 |
| * lcuk is always reminded of the scene from appollo 13 where the techs were trying to startup the motors with very limited current available | 21:11 | |
| qgil | ali1234: OBS is open to see but not for everybody to build yet, being the reason that we're not sure how much can the infrastructure take - working on it as well | 21:12 |
| ali1234 | "open to see" means i can clone the project and compile locally? | 21:12 |
| auke | DocScrutinizer: explain why an open source distro is broken ... because of bad hardware? | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | qgil, sadly no login for outsiders yet to see things yet afaik | 21:12 |
| qgil | ali1234 there are guys like Stskeeps who know better what can you exactly do today | 21:12 |
| ezjd | Stskeeps: I guess I will be busy this long weekend | 21:13 |
| spoussa | ali1234: Not yet open (OBS). | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: but i expect things to clear up | 21:13 |
| qgil | Stskeeps: ok, sorry for misinformation but the idea is to have it open ali1234 | 21:13 |
| qgil | ali1234: there are several services being setup and too many simultaneous tasks atm | 21:14 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: today at work we were discussing the scrubber scene with a box of bits on the table. But that's a story for when there's a couple of pints on the table :) | 21:14 |
| ali1234 | what about native compiling then? were the srpms fixed so that they actually compile? | 21:14 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: best way is to voice your concerns on meego-sdk or meego-community so we can discuss how to implement | 21:14 |
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| lcuk | lol Jaffa :D | 21:15 |
| lcuk | speaking of which | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: builds in qemu user emulation and natively on arm | 21:15 |
| lcuk | have oyu decided on the london meet yet | 21:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | auke: where is there any broken hw??? it's the kernel that doesn't support the very decent hw in a way we would epect to see in a FOSS OS | 21:15 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: i'm talking about for x86 | 21:15 |
| koupsa | difficult delivery for the mother of meego 10kb/s | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: ah | 21:16 |
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| ali1234 | Stskeeps: moblin srpms do not build, about 10% of them just fail unless you are using OBS | 21:16 |
| auke | DocScrutinizer: ok, so you're complaining about a missing driver? | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: please raise issue then | 21:16 |
| auke | or, a broken one? | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: it has been raised on the ML already | 21:16 |
| w00t_ | ali1234: on the MeeGo SDK list? | 21:17 |
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| MrCoder | Im confussed, is meego a replacement to the planned Maemo 6? | 21:17 |
| * w00t_ doesn't recall having seen it, but might have missed it | 21:17 | |
| ali1234 | no, on the moblin list, before meego was even announced | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | well, for a non-release-critical obs for people to work/build against | 21:17 |
| qgil | by the way, for specific bugs/requests now there is http://bugzilla.meego.com/ | 21:17 |
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| w00t_ | MrCoder: it's parallel to Maemo 6, the two are seperate. but applications should work on both with *relative* ease. | 21:17 |
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| ali1234 | for eg http://lists.moblin.org/pipermail/dev/2009-February/003665.html | 21:18 |
| w00t_ | ali1234: might help to re-raise it then, in case new people would be dealing with it | 21:18 |
| koupsa | 10kb/s like in last century! | 21:18 |
| MrCoder | w00t_: So why have 2? Am I missing something? | 21:18 |
| w00t_ | (or just to remind people) | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: mind if i ping you with some things over time to get some input re developer experience? | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | auke: I'm complaining about a missing/broken driver that eports a standard sysfs node to access the batterycharger and the batterymeter chip | 21:19 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: i'm not really a developer, at least not on moblin | 21:19 |
| w00t_ | MrCoder: long story short: MeeGo is aimed to be a lot more open in code and processes than Maemo was. Maemo was also tied to Nokia, where MeeGo is not | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | or does NOT | 21:19 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: s/moblin/meego/ | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234: k | 21:19 |
| qgil | MrCoder: Harmattan development goes in parallel to MeeGo development. There are differences in the platform but we are working to make the official APIs match | 21:19 |
| koupsa | can anybody send me meego-netbook-usb by horse and ship may it willl be more faster :) | 21:19 |
| thebootroo | lol | 21:20 |
| w00t_ | qgil: do we have an FAQ item about this? if not, it might be nice to write one targetted at e.g. users/application developers (since the OS people will likely already know the difference) | 21:20 |
| ali1234 | Stskeeps: feel free to ask me any questions though, i do love to share my opinion :) | 21:20 |
| alden | will it run in virtualbox? | 21:20 |
| thebootroo | ? | 21:21 |
| alden | hardware has to be atom based? | 21:21 |
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| alden | the intel atom image | 21:21 |
| qgil | w00t_: there is http://wiki.maemo.org/What_can_we_realistically_expect#I_am_confused.__What_is_Harmattan_and_what_is_MeeGo_.3F__What_is_the_difference_between_both_.3F__Do_they_share_common_features_.3F | 21:21 |
| koupsa | atom and proton | 21:21 |
| microlith | alden: the netbook image should if you have a processor tha tsupports ssse3 | 21:21 |
| MrCoder | Thanks w00t_ and qgil, that clears a lot up! Where does QT fit in to all this? Is it going to be used for pretty much everything UI related? | 21:21 |
| w00t_ | alden: no, the hardware does not have to be atom based | 21:21 |
| alden | ok, sweet | 21:21 |
| thebootroo | ok cool | 21:21 |
| w00t_ | MrCoder: Qt (QT is QuickTime) is the 'preferred' API, but by no means is it the only option for application development | 21:21 |
| MrCoder | w00t_: Thanks again! | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | auke: instead Nokia *starts* meego by spoiling it with their own proprietary closedsource driver called BME, that goes behind the back of standard sysfs node way to manage those things | 21:22 |
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| w00t_ | MrCoder: I imagine that (with things like Qt Creator and other toolkit work) it will end up being easier to work with, purely due to having the work put in that direction too | 21:22 |
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| qgil | DocScrutinizer: if we would have been OSS purists then there would have not been a feasible way to have an image for the N900 and someone would be telling us that we are ditching etc etc - this is why we decided to go for this approach | 21:23 |
| w00t_ | DocScrutinizer: while I don't mean to detract from the message you're conveying.. and would love to see it open.. it is one component that was reasonably convincingly kept closed IIRC (from Stskeeps' processing of the request) | 21:23 |
| trumee | qgil: will it be possible to use a bluetooth mouse with N900 running meego? | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | should we take this discussion in #maemo as it has nothing to deal with anything released by meego? | 21:24 |
| MrCoder | w00t_: Sorry for all the noobie questions, only had the phone for less then a week and trying to figure out what I should be learning to program with / in :) | 21:24 |
| qgil | trumee: "possible", I guess so but no idea :) | 21:24 |
| w00t_ | MrCoder: sure, no problem.. I'd suggest Qt myself, but I'm a bit biased :) | 21:25 |
| th0br0 | lbt: will you be around for the meeting? | 21:25 |
| lbt | yes | 21:25 |
| th0br0 | I might be a bit delayed, as I'm not sure when we're having dinner here | 21:25 |
| lbt | np | 21:25 |
| qgil | MrCoder: Qt plays a big role in the MeeGo developer offering | 21:25 |
| th0br0 | (Unfortunately, it's not within my power to decide that right now.) | 21:25 |
| w00t_ | MrCoder: #qt and #qt-maemo are good places to hang around in, if you run across a problem you can't get answered, try giving me a hilight and I'll do my best :) | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | w00t_: recent work (me ripping apart my N900 to read 'intel bq24150a' on USB abttery charger chip) revealed though, the whole very secret cruft in BME is largely a legend | 21:25 |
| trumee | i would really like a bluetooth mouse and keyboard to make it a perfect latptop replacement on th go. | 21:25 |
| lcuk | qgil, using an external sontroller (like a mouse) would make using video out nicer | 21:25 |
| lcuk | controller | 21:26 |
| slaine | catch you all tomorrow | 21:26 |
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| w00t_ | DocScrutinizer: if it is a legend, then surely there would have been no reason to keep it closed | 21:26 |
| slaine | hopefully my image will have downloaded by then :) | 21:26 |
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| koupsa | by slaine | 21:26 |
| w00t_ | DocScrutinizer: I'm sure it wasn't closed (and kept that way) purely for fun | 21:26 |
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| ali1234 | if it's just a usb chip, hello libusb :) | 21:26 |
| qgil | lcuk: check if it works and if not file an enhancement request? I'm definitely not the guy sitting on top of these decisions | 21:26 |
| lcuk | qgil, for virtual test set top box ui stuff :) | 21:26 |
| MrCoder | w00t_: I really like the look of Qt and I will do just that :) | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | qgil: If you would document *why EACTLY* we need BME, I'd say 'oh well, let's live with it until eventually it might get better'. But all I see is cargo cult coding | 21:27 |
| lcuk | of course, im just showing theres a realistic use case | 21:27 |
| kauppi | docsrutinizer: so, the kernel is open and you know the chip and if it is well documented, why aren't you already coding an open source driver for it instead of just whining? | 21:27 |
| thebootroo | +1000 | 21:27 |
| * Stskeeps sighs | 21:27 | |
| ali1234 | cos he is documentation scrutinizer, not driver coder :) | 21:27 |
| rsalveti | Welcome to Moblin ? :-) | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | with that useful info (chip id) someone else can now write a driver | 21:28 |
| lcuk | actually DocScrutinizer appears to be digging quite deep into the hardware | 21:28 |
| qgil | DocScrutinizer: this is MeeGo Day 1 and nobody has said why we need BME to build images for the N900, or whether the MeeGo stack will have a good alternative for it at some point | 21:28 |
| lcuk | its been good to watch | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | w00t_: ther's *always* a reason. The question is: which one, and is it a valid reason | 21:28 |
| rsalveti | someone still forgot to change the welcome message :P | 21:28 |
| w00t_ | DocScrutinizer: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9314 | 21:28 |
| povbot | Bug 9314: relicense BME | 21:28 |
| spoussa | rsalveti: yes, please file a bug ! | 21:28 |
| rsalveti | spoussa: sure :-) | 21:28 |
| spoussa | with a patch ! | 21:28 |
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| rsalveti | spoussa: ;-) | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | qgil: the point is I don't see we need _any_ alternative. To all my understanding the bq24150 chip should perform just fine without any BME cruft | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | hmm if it is usb... the n900 doesn't support usb host... supposedly because of "battery charging" | 21:30 |
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| qgil | DocScrutinizer: then what is the problm with plain MeeGo? (note: I'm not an expert in this area at all, I just want to help improving the MeeGo stack) | 21:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kauppi: because I'm EE, not kernel hacker | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | can these two things be related i wonder? | 21:30 |
| spoussa | Lack of USB host and battery charging are not related. | 21:31 |
| arauho | anybody can download latest meego usb image? | 21:31 |
| thebootroo | guys : images DL are almost down but gitorious works fine | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | spoussa: exactly | 21:31 |
| arauho | for osme reason, it gets stuck here | 21:31 |
| ali1234 | ah i see, it isn;t controlled on usb, it draws power from usb | 21:31 |
| koupsa | arauho yes but very very slox | 21:32 |
| thiago_home | 9 kB/s | 21:32 |
| arauho | koupsa: i see :( | 21:32 |
| auke | everyone take turns downloading :) | 21:32 |
| thebootroo | :) | 21:32 |
| auke | (me first) | 21:32 |
| alden | 17hours 59mins remaining | 21:32 |
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| arauho | it doesn't even download here, it gets stuck ... | 21:32 |
| arauho | alden: hehe | 21:32 |
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| thebootroo | 10 hours remaining for me | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | so, what's the joke with the meego servers then, on maemo.org it was our aging 770's hosting the servers, at meego it's 8088's? ;) | 21:33 |
| Myrtti | sounds like someone needs authenticating torrent tracker or something | 21:33 |
| koupsa | dosnload 12hours! i go watch champions league.... barsa-arsenal | 21:33 |
| lcuk | lolol Stskeeps | 21:33 |
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| thebootroo | time for me to spend with my darling while downloading ;-) | 21:33 |
| alden | yeah, anyone up seeding? | 21:33 |
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| alden | up for seeding* | 21:33 |
| lcuk | thebootroo, can you type one handed? | 21:34 |
| rsalveti | spoussa: do you know the default root passwd? | 21:34 |
| thebootroo | yes | 21:34 |
| rsalveti | it's not rootme, like maemo | 21:34 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:34 |
| thebootroo | lol | 21:34 |
| Stskeeps | MeeGo? | 21:34 |
| spoussa | meego | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | qgil: the problem I see is BME negating the need to have decent sysfs nodes in meego, to controll these chips in a sane FOSS way | 21:34 |
| spoussa | meego is the default root pw | 21:34 |
| w00t_ | DocScrutinizer: by that justification, then in some ways Maemo negated the need to have a sane FOSS base OS - yet here we are | 21:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | qgil: and you know interim solutions are here to stay a long time ;-) | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: would you be capable of writing a BME replacement? | 21:35 |
| thiago_home | ssh enabled? | 21:35 |
| qgil | DocScrutinizer: as Stskeeps says, this is a Maemo discussion isn't it | 21:35 |
| w00t_ | ..heading towards one | 21:35 |
| w00t_ | Stskeeps: that's a sensible suggestion | 21:36 |
| rsalveti | spoussa: nice, thanks, I tried this one but I guess I got a typo :-) | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | qgil: exactly not. I'm asking for a clean meego from beginning, not for a better maemo | 21:36 |
| bfree | I actually don't think how the Nokia crap is handled is too bad but why isn't the Intel WiMAX Supplicant handled the same way (i.e. in a non-free repo not MeeGo main)? | 21:36 |
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| Stskeeps | bfree: ah, good one | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: I guess I'd be able to do that, yes | 21:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: though it' | 21:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s impossible to write replacement without original specs | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: let's start a frank discussion on maemo-developers on if it's possible to make one, even at less battery efficiency | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | it's probably better to approach things that way instead. | 21:37 |
| thebootroo | +120000 | 21:38 |
| lcuk | +1000 | 21:38 |
| lcuk | lol | 21:38 |
| w00t_ | +over 9000 | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | cos atm it's just blinding asking for open sourcing, while what you actually want, is information on how to make it tick | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | (no lipo fire reference there..) | 21:38 |
| * rsalveti misses dpkg and apt | 21:38 | |
| lcuk | and ive seen docS give more info on the battery than anyone to date | 21:38 |
| alden | they should've put up a torrent | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: (original specs) that's what I was refering to when I asked for detailend eplanation what BME actually adds to meego which we can't have without | 21:38 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: right. make a good introductionary mail, i'll gladly read it through, and let's see where this leads. | 21:39 |
| spoussa | Stskeeps: I think this is entirely possible to create open BME. | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | well, we have a start then :) | 21:39 |
| lcuk | spoussa, then get involved in the proper discussion thats about to start :p | 21:39 |
| w00t_ | sounds like there's a start of the process :) | 21:39 |
| w00t_ | and with that I'm off for dinner | 21:39 |
| w00t_ | bbl | 21:39 |
| rsalveti | nice :-) | 21:40 |
| spoussa | but why now? Why not already when N900 was launced? | 21:40 |
| w00t_ | (lcuk: why are you always around when I discuss food?) | 21:40 |
| spoussa | Or N810, N800 ? | 21:40 |
| lcuk | spoussa, open source is evolutionary | 21:40 |
| lcuk | and different people have different skills | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | and different times of coming to the community | 21:41 |
| th0br0 | lbt: as we'll be starting the meeting in 1:20h, I'll be around. | 21:41 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer has an obvious point about this component and might just have the skills to do something about it | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | spufor N8xx situation might be completely different. That's why I meentioned cargo cult coding | 21:41 |
| thebootroo | could it be possible to launch the N900 image in Qemu on ubuntu pc and then tweak it and put it in dual boot on mmc in my n900 for safe testing ? | 21:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | spoussa: ^^^ | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | at least with n900 we don't have retu and tahvo and there seems to be more standard components | 21:42 |
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| Stskeeps | so most likely a different situation now | 21:42 |
| spoussa | Stskeeps: true.. | 21:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | spoussa: iirc N810 actully needed support from software to charge battery and not kill it. For N900 it's a better situation. That's why I think we don't need *any* BME alike thing for meego | 21:43 |
| rsalveti | oh yeah, we got vim inside :-) | 21:43 |
| koupsa | i don't see any md5sum for meego-usb-notebok ... | 21:43 |
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| * rsalveti happier now | 21:44 | |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: so, agree with me that we'll start this discussion on maemo-developers? if we can make a implementation that is safe and sane, maybe even legally non-liable, it would be good for everyone | 21:44 |
| spoussa | DocScrutinizer: it's true that N900 is easier so I take back by N8xx comment. | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: ack | 21:44 |
| Stskeeps | k | 21:44 |
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| spoussa | DocScrutinizer & Stskeeps: you can quote on me on the open BME thing but keep in mind that I am not the kernel hacker or expert on this area. My comment is based on some discussion at Nokia in the early N900 days. | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | k | 21:47 |
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| alden | so why are they not opening BME again? | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's battery with litium and fire and booooh scary stuff | 21:49 |
| * qgil reminds that this is the #meego channel and BME is not part of the MeeGo release | 21:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer | actually it is | 21:50 |
| spoussa | qgil: ack. | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: nop, it's not | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | tablets-dev.nokia.com is well, obviously nokia | 21:50 |
| qgil | DocScrutinizer: http://repo.meego.com/ | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | The image with the closed Nokia proprietary binaries will add following functionalities: | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | Battery management (BME), without this you may cause damage to your battery. | 21:50 |
| qgil | DocScrutinizer: is this a big problem? either you are concerned about the MeeGo stack or you are concerned about the N900 as a hardware platform to ease MeeGo development | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I accept any bets against this. The batery damage warning is moot | 21:52 |
| qgil | DocScrutinizer: I guess that's easier to say when you are not a liable company | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know ;-) Been there, done that, feel with you | 21:53 |
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| qgil | DocScrutinizer: so... can we move forward? ;) | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | happily | 21:53 |
| * auke moves forward | 21:53 | |
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| * alden wonders which way is forward | 21:53 | |
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| auke | a few kilobytes more on my download is forward ;) | 21:54 |
| * qgil moves to laundry room and comes back soon | 21:54 | |
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| thiago_home | alden: that way ----> | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | it is a bit fun to see people taking pictures of their n900's running a .. xterm | 21:56 |
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| thebootroo | Stskeeps: where can i find these pictures ? | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | thebootroo: talk.maemo.org | 21:57 |
| iksaif | =D | 21:57 |
| thebootroo | ok | 21:57 |
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| anotnac | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=590170&postcount=16 | 21:58 |
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| Shapeshifter | and it's also funny (but expected) how people are whining that there's no full fledged everything-done public release of meego | 21:59 |
| iksaif | 2.6.28, it's old :/ | 21:59 |
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| frals | .28 :o | 21:59 |
| Shapeshifter | users really don't get it. | 21:59 |
| anaZ | good morning | 21:59 |
| dotblank | wait is that really all there is/ | 21:59 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: does it count if the xterm is running irssi within? | 21:59 |
| dotblank | just a terminal? | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | morning anaZ | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | frals, iksaif: we have a 2.6.33 with working LCD screen but we slipped a bit on repository sync | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | it runs linus tree plus tsc2005 and updated lcd driver patches. | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | (on n900) | 22:00 |
| frals | ah, thats cool | 22:00 |
| iksaif | great :) | 22:01 |
| CosmoHill | hey arjan | 22:01 |
| Shapeshifter | btw, what scheduler does the meego kernel use? | 22:01 |
| iksaif | there is only one (cpu) scheduler | 22:01 |
| iksaif | on 2.6.28 it use O(1) scheduler | 22:01 |
| iksaif | on 2.6.33, the new scheduler | 22:02 |
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| iksaif | maybe you mean i/o scheduler ? | 22:02 |
| iksaif | (check sysfs) | 22:02 |
| thiago_home | iksaif: is it better than O(1) ? ;-) | 22:02 |
| iksaif | yep | 22:02 |
| iksaif | O(1) doesn't mean fast | 22:02 |
| Shapeshifter | iksaif: no, I mean process scheduler. Because maybe BFS would be nice | 22:02 |
| iksaif | just mean O(1) | 22:02 |
| Shapeshifter | brain fuck scheduler. | 22:03 |
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| iksaif | didn't try BFS, don't know if it would work well on a mobile device | 22:03 |
| CosmoHill | BFS is meant to have a SSD mode | 22:03 |
| Shapeshifter | iksaif: it's in androids cyanogen mod for example. | 22:03 |
| Shapeshifter | it's quite speedy ^^ | 22:04 |
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| iksaif | well, may be speedy and kill your battery :p | 22:05 |
| thebootroo | since meego already have xserver working, why could we develop a basic qt app to see how it works ? but is there qt on this version ? | 22:05 |
| Shapeshifter | iksaif: I think to remember that it has very little overhead. it's basically just round-robin anyway. | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | thebootroo: might be qt there | 22:05 |
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| qgil | thebootroo: yes, there is | 22:06 |
| thebootroo | cooooooooooool | 22:06 |
| thebootroo | best news of the day | 22:06 |
| thebootroo | :) | 22:06 |
| thiago_home | thebootroo: try running /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4 | 22:06 |
| thebootroo | i cant | 22:06 |
| thebootroo | still DL | 22:06 |
| thebootroo | :( | 22:06 |
| iksaif | Shapeshifter: I don't know, but I think it's better to use a fine tuned CFS :) | 22:06 |
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| thebootroo | so when i 'll have it, i'm goign to hack all night ;-) | 22:06 |
| arjan | Shapeshifter: BFS does not do anything anymore since 2.6.33 | 22:07 |
| thiago_home | if you feel adventurous, upgrade to 4.7 TP and make a QML app | 22:07 |
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| arjan | BFS exposed a kernel bug in the scheduler that we fixed in 2.6.33 | 22:07 |
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| arjan | (I don't want to pretend I fixed it, but I did find the bug and proved it to the scheduler guys ;-) | 22:07 |
| jrayhawk | EasyStreet looks like it's being a bit inadequate; if a mirror is needed for repo.meego.com, I can probably arrange for one at PSU pretty quick. Feel free to email me at jrayhawk@omgwallhack.org. | 22:08 |
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| Shapeshifter | arjan: mhh, got a link on that or something? what bug? and why doesn't it "do anything anymore"? | 22:09 |
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| arjan | BFS does not give you any advantage | 22:10 |
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| arjan | if you look at the latest BFS announcement mails they' | 22:10 |
| arjan | re now absent of actual data.. ;) | 22:10 |
| iksaif | like SD, BFS was a good thing | 22:10 |
| iksaif | even if it's not actually merged | 22:11 |
| arjan | yep it proved there was a bug | 22:11 |
| Shapeshifter | ah | 22:11 |
| arjan | well timechart helped prove the details of the bug | 22:11 |
| arjan | but it was a good "there is room for improvement" thing | 22:11 |
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| arjan | fwiw we do track scheduler performance *very* carefully | 22:12 |
| arjan | and we have various tools to show how things are going | 22:12 |
| * qgil smiles seeing that http://bugzilla.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1 was filed against Tracker | 22:12 | |
| iksaif | arjan: do you know what the status of runtime power management in linux-omap ? | 22:13 |
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| arjan | iksaif: not sure; I do know that the mainline kernel did get runtime PM in 2.6.33 | 22:14 |
| arjan | if the omap guys didn't try to get their stuff into mainline.. shame on them ;-) | 22:14 |
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| qgil | apparently there are 361 MeeGo bugs filed already - sounds like good bugzilla testing | 22:15 |
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| iksaif | 361 duplicate of "I only see a term !!" ? :p | 22:16 |
| thebootroo | lol | 22:16 |
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| thebootroo | i hope not | 22:17 |
| arjan | RTFRL | 22:18 |
| arjan | read the release notes ;) | 22:18 |
| qgil | iksaif: real bugs e.g. http://bugzilla.meego.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=WAITING%20FOR%20UPSTREAM&bug_status=REOPENED&chfieldfrom=2010-03-31&chfieldto=Now&query_format=advanced&order=bug_id&query_based_on= | 22:18 |
| CosmoHill | lol | 22:18 |
| spoussa | arjan: the omap is currently adapting to the ML runtime PM | 22:18 |
| CosmoHill | oh did you hear about the MIPS support going "RTFM" to it's customers? | 22:18 |
| arjan | was that mips? I thought it was acer | 22:18 |
| spoussa | NishanthMenon: hello! | 22:18 |
| NishanthMenon | spoussa, hi | 22:18 |
| CosmoHill | nope it was Mips | 22:19 |
| qgil | Anybody volunteers starting http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo.gitorious.org , linked from http://meego.gitorious.org/ ? | 22:19 |
| CosmoHill | Acer would charge you to fix their crap | 22:19 |
| spoussa | NishanthMenon: You know more about OMAP runtime PM. What is that status of that in mainline ? | 22:19 |
| prpplague | NishanthMenon: hey bud | 22:20 |
| NishanthMenon | spoussa, not mainlined yet i think | 22:20 |
| NishanthMenon | prpplague, hi | 22:20 |
| spoussa | There was a question about that here | 22:20 |
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| thebootroo | shiiiiiiiiiiiiit : my meego image dl failed after one hour of 10kbps :( :( :( :( 4 | 22:20 |
| * NishanthMenon needs to catchup, he "just found" the irc channel today | 22:20 | |
| prpplague | spoussa: it is slowly working its way into mainline, but it has a ways to go | 22:20 |
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| thebootroo | dl is stopped but i have only 48mb downloaded .... | 22:21 |
| thebootroo | too bad | 22:21 |
| NishanthMenon | spoussa, runtime pm needs hwmod as per last i heard from khilman | 22:21 |
| prpplague | spoussa: http://www.elinux.org/OMAP_Power_Management#PM_code_in_Mainline | 22:21 |
| NishanthMenon | hwmod for o4 is there in one of the links i saw somewhere.. | 22:21 |
| prpplague | spoussa: khilman generally keeps that page uptodate | 22:21 |
| spoussa | thx | 22:22 |
| * NishanthMenon tries to recollect | 22:22 | |
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| prpplague | i'm curious what hardware platform meego devrs are using for the test platform, any feedback/info would be appreciated | 22:24 |
| CosmoHill | oo good question | 22:24 |
| arjan | prpplague: pretty much the ones we released for | 22:24 |
| thebootroo | n900s ? | 22:24 |
| arjan | netbooks, n900s and some intel moorsetowns | 22:24 |
| thebootroo | surely | 22:24 |
| CosmoHill | moorsetowns? | 22:25 |
| prpplague | might be nice for that info to be posted on the developer section of the meego pages | 22:25 |
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| arjan | CosmoHill: moorsetown is the mobile atom cpu/chip intel is working on (google for it, you'll find demos and stuff with it0 | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | CosmoHill, I thought it was MSI | 22:26 |
| CosmoHill | ah it is MSI | 22:27 |
| ShadowJK | MIPS doesn't make anything tangible ;p | 22:27 |
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| iksaif | hum maybe I'll try to work on pm if my gsoc on musb is accepted :) | 22:28 |
| thiago_home | download stopped, cannot resume | 22:28 |
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| NishanthMenon | spoussa, i found a wip branch if you are interested http://dev.omapzoom.org/?p=santosh/kernel-omap4-base.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/omap4_next-wip | 22:29 |
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| spoussa | thx, it is also more about info when do we have the stuff in ML so we can pull it in for MeeGo. | 22:30 |
| heffer | lbt, i'm proud to announce that i just ordered myself a N900 today :) | 22:31 |
| NishanthMenon | spoussa, ouch.. that is a planning question. can you drop me an email i can followup internally and get an answer | 22:31 |
| lbt | heffer: :) | 22:31 |
| lbt | X-Fade: just checking you're around :) | 22:31 |
| spoussa | sure. Nothing urgent, Arjan was just asking that.... | 22:31 |
| X-Fade | lbt: here | 22:31 |
| NishanthMenon | spoussa, thx | 22:32 |
| arjan | spoussa: it'd be nice to only have ONE runtime pm framework in the kernel | 22:32 |
| lbt | x-fade no tekojo yet | 22:32 |
| arjan | unfunny to have two at the same time ;) | 22:32 |
| X-Fade | lbt: No, but it is still early :) | 22:32 |
| NishanthMenon | arjan, i just know of one runtime pm framework | 22:32 |
| trumee | heffer, good one there. i am going to wait until i see qt glory on meego ;) | 22:32 |
| spoussa | arjan: I think the omap PM is based on the same FW. | 22:32 |
| NishanthMenon | backend could use soc specific implementation to handle the runtime framework hooks | 22:33 |
| heffer | i got mine for 399€ off ebay | 22:33 |
| heffer | it's new, not a used one, too :) | 22:33 |
| NishanthMenon | btw, there is a presentation in ELC2010 (san fransisco) on runtime framework from khilman | 22:33 |
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| trumee | heffer: is it covered under Nokia's warranty? | 22:33 |
| spoussa | NishanthMenon: yes, I'll be there. | 22:33 |
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| NishanthMenon | spoussa, cool.. we can hit a beer then ;) | 22:34 |
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| spoussa | or two... | 22:34 |
| NishanthMenon | :) | 22:34 |
| heffer | trumee, should be. it is a device that was sold by a german provider alongside with a contract. so basically someone is selling their subsidized phone | 22:34 |
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| heffer | and as germany is very strict what warranty laws is concerned i'm pretty sure it is covered | 22:35 |
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| kth | does anyone already thought about meego on plug computers? - maybe there are some usecases based on plugcomputer using usb displays - just an idea ... maybe just senseless but maybe not .. | 22:40 |
| th0br0 | ohai heffer. | 22:41 |
| th0br0 | heffer: 400€ for a n900? | 22:41 |
| heffer | th0br0, right | 22:41 |
| th0br0 | heffer: i envy you. unfortunately, my next 400€ will be spent on some netbook. | 22:41 |
| th0br0 | but then, i'll be able to run meego on it too | 22:41 |
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| heffer | :) won't meego run on you freerunner? | 22:41 |
| lbt | CosmoHill: yes | 22:42 |
| th0br0 | no idea. i won't even try it tbh. | 22:42 |
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| lbt | o/ anaZ | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | heffer: armv5 vs armv4 :/ | 22:43 |
| CosmoHill | lbt: huh? | 22:43 |
| heffer | oh okay :) | 22:43 |
| arjan | anaZ: I'm not coming downstairs.. I don't feel all that well | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | heffer: maybe if you bootstrap it but it is a bit problematic | 22:43 |
| arjan | probably just too tired | 22:43 |
| lbt | CosmoHill: the RCA question | 22:43 |
| CosmoHill | so my sub need a splitteR? | 22:44 |
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| lbt | nah, for systems with only stereo the sub mixes both channels | 22:44 |
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| lbt | looking at it it can also do speaker-level pass-thru mixing | 22:45 |
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| qgil | thank you mrshaver for making SSO happen meego.com ---> bugzilla.meego.com | 22:47 |
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| mrshaver | qgil: it works for now, but may not be the long term SSO solution! | 22:49 |
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| qgil | mrshaver: it's more than I have even seen in any bugzilla ;) | 22:49 |
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| qgil | ever | 22:49 |
| slaine | mrshaver: any idea how many hits the download servers getting ? | 22:49 |
| arjan | people make it sound like this is a release | 22:49 |
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| slaine | I left a download running at work, it was crawling :) | 22:50 |
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| arjan | it's just starting to push (bi)weekly snapshots | 22:50 |
| slaine | arjan: There's been a lot of confusion alright | 22:50 |
| X-Fade | long downloads are basically a slow ddos on the servers :) | 22:50 |
| slaine | X-Fade: lol | 22:50 |
| mrshaver | slaine: anas is working on getting the mirrors working, this should help | 22:50 |
| slaine | No worries, i was just curious about the numbers | 22:50 |
| slaine | it'll be there when I get in | 22:51 |
| slaine | I might have some time for the meeting tonight too, we'll see | 22:51 |
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| Stskeeps | TSG meeting at 20:00 UTC, in #meego-meeting , questions go in #meego-meeting-questions | 22:56 |
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| slaine | CosmoHill: you're lists still ok ? | 22:57 |
| CosmoHill | yeah think so | 22:57 |
| CosmoHill | I saved it afterwards | 22:57 |
| slaine | so you did, svn right ? | 22:58 |
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| CosmoHill | yep | 22:58 |
| slaine | was doing 3 things at once and watching the time, sorry, if I wasn't responding quickly | 22:58 |
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| lbt | svn?? | 22:59 |
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| slaine | DawnFoster: where's the agenda ? | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | topic has it | 23:01 |
| slaine | Ah, found it | 23:01 |
| slaine | ta | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | http://meego.com/community/events/2010/meego-technical-steering-group-meeting-0 | 23:01 |
| lbt | X-Fade: did you add that text? | 23:01 |
| X-Fade | No, did you? | 23:01 |
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| lbt | no, and the log is on a different PC so I can't see it | 23:02 |
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| Jaffa | Questions channel is #meego-questions again? | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | right | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | trumee: logs is published live, sec | 23:05 |
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| Stskeeps | trumee: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-31-19.58.log.txt | 23:05 |
| jusliukk | jaffa, #meego-meeting-questions | 23:05 |
| trumee | Stskeeps, thanks | 23:06 |
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| Jaffa | jusliukk: Ta | 23:06 |
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| lool | I personally can't open the architecture diagram on http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture | 23:07 |
| vilvo | it's there now | 23:07 |
| lool | Yeah thanks | 23:07 |
| lbt | lool: chat in here | 23:07 |
| arjan | told you the update was in progress ;) | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | woo @ geoclue | 23:08 |
| * lbt has no clue about geoclie | 23:08 | |
| Stskeeps | it's open, which is what matters | 23:08 |
| lbt | ah http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/GeoClue | 23:09 |
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| * thiago_home preferes geoglue | 23:10 | |
| * arjan glues thiago to his geo | 23:10 | |
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| thiago_home | DawnFoster: spoussa misspelt GeoClue. It's not GeoGlue... | 23:11 |
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| X-Fade | We're so not going to make the hour meeting ;) | 23:13 |
| th0br0 | lbt: i don't think we'll get to the proposals tonite | 23:13 |
| th0br0 | X-Fade: ohhh yes. | 23:13 |
| X-Fade | th0br0: Well, I hope we do. RWG is important. | 23:14 |
| th0br0 | me too. | 23:14 |
| th0br0 | but given that there are only 45 minutes left, | 23:14 |
| th0br0 | we're already focusing on questions | 23:15 |
| th0br0 | but haven't really talked much about architecture at all, idk | 23:15 |
| arjan | please look at the diagram and do most questions on the mailing list | 23:15 |
| th0br0 | yep. | 23:15 |
| jusliukk | i do hope the security question gets answered - it looks like the maemo 6 security infra was pushed into git | 23:15 |
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| lbt | jusliukk: not much of it... but it's a start | 23:16 |
| arjan | or ask here | 23:16 |
| arjan | but mailing list is nicer since then others can read the answers later as well | 23:16 |
| jusliukk | has anyone analyzed the threat model maemo 6 security covers? | 23:16 |
| lbt | jusliukk: http://wiki.maemo.org/MaemoSecurity | 23:16 |
| lbt | seen that? | 23:16 |
| NishanthMenon | folks are there any mirrors for http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/n900/images/ ? looks like the server is getting stomped on | 23:16 |
| X-Fade | jusliukk: Check the presentations. | 23:16 |
| slaine | was just looking for some sort of over view, that's fine for now | 23:17 |
| NishanthMenon | bittorrent anyone? | 23:17 |
| jusliukk | lbt, x-fade, i know all that stuff, that's why i'm worried ;) | 23:17 |
| lbt | NishanthMenon: post when you've set it up | 23:17 |
| th0br0 | NishanthMenon: i'll try to mirror it | 23:17 |
| lbt | jusliukk: happy to discuss - but now isn't a great time :) | 23:17 |
| NishanthMenon | lbt, th0br0, thx | 23:17 |
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| jusliukk | lbt, ack | 23:18 |
| lbt | not that I'm anything more than a user | 23:18 |
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| th0br0 | NishanthMenon: unfortunately, my dedi box isn't getting high speeds now either | 23:18 |
| bef0rd | I'd love a mirror for x86 netbook image :D or a torrent | 23:18 |
| lbt | Jaffa: maybe that should be "now the code is out will all dev discussion go public? | 23:18 |
| Jaffa | trumee: No offence, but your questions don't seem directly relevant to the agenda ;-) | 23:18 |
| Jaffa | lbt: well, indeed :-/ | 23:19 |
| NishanthMenon | th0br0, i wish i could set something up, btw, Stskeeps might be good to have something like a .md5 to verify downloads ;) | 23:19 |
| arjan | NishanthMenon: good suggestion | 23:19 |
| trumee | Jaffa: just worried about N900's future :) | 23:19 |
| arjan | NishanthMenon: wonder if we should do gpg sigs instead though | 23:20 |
| arjan | NishanthMenon: (even more security) | 23:20 |
| th0br0 | gpg sig the sha1 sums? :D | 23:20 |
| NishanthMenon | arjan, md5/sha/gpg anything to verify.. dont really care as long as i know i have the right download.. | 23:20 |
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| slaine | Stskeeps: good question | 23:21 |
| th0br0 | NishanthMenon: i'm just getting the images, give me ~15 min hopefully | 23:21 |
| NishanthMenon | th0br0, no hurry.. 1 hr download for me.. just got a connection :) | 23:22 |
| th0br0 | :) | 23:22 |
| Jaffa | trumee: But you're not going to get an answer. I can probably say from the info already been unveiled that MeeGo will have open source applications which allow it to do things. Nokia will either ship those or write closed source "value add" apps for their MeeGo devices. Whether or not those OSS apps, or the following MeeGo releases, will be consumer grade on your N900 is a question to which there is no answer currently. | 23:22 |
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| th0br0 | NishanthMenon: you want the tgz or the ubiimg? | 23:24 |
| alden | where can i find the agenda? | 23:24 |
| DaGoodBoy | agenda: http://meego.com/community/events/2010/meego-technical-steering-group-meeting-0 | 23:24 |
| NishanthMenon | th0br0, i am good now that i have a connection :) | 23:24 |
| th0br0 | alden: http://meego.com/community/events/2010/meego-technical-steering-group-meeting-0 | 23:24 |
| NishanthMenon | thanks though.. | 23:24 |
| alden | thanks | 23:24 |
| th0br0 | NishanthMenon: still, 1h is > than max speed :P | 23:24 |
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| * NishanthMenon wonders if he'd get anything better on his network :D and being a patient man decides to twiddle thumbs ;) | 23:25 | |
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| th0br0 | NishanthMenon: :D well, i'll have that mirror up in 8 min anyway. | 23:28 |
| NishanthMenon | th0br0, thx.. good to have a backup ;) | 23:28 |
| th0br0 | :) | 23:28 |
| Jaffa | arjan: That's either very honest or a very political answer ;-) | 23:28 |
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| arjan | Jaffa: it's both :) | 23:29 |
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| Jaffa | arjan: The best kind ;-) | 23:29 |
| arjan | at intel we have an internal bugzilla-like thing where we track ahrdware issues and stuff | 23:29 |
| thiago_home | and in Nokia we have internal things for products not announced too | 23:30 |
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| thiago_home | you can expect any company to have that | 23:30 |
| NishanthMenon | yep | 23:30 |
| Jaffa | arjan: TBH, I wasn't expecting a straight yes; hardware being the most obvious example, but Nokia having consumer grade hardware is an even bigger issue. | 23:30 |
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| lbt | jaffa - RWG ... pay attention | 23:30 |
| Jaffa | thiago_home: Indeed. I suppose it follows on from the question I asked which wasn't passed on... | 23:30 |
| * Jaffa does as he's told | 23:31 | |
| arjan | Jaffa: also for some things like binary applications we have some internal stuff too.. but that's not really meego.com software in my view | 23:31 |
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| th0br0 | now we're not really following the plan strictly, ait? | 23:31 |
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| * thiago_home agrees | 23:31 | |
| slaine | lbt, here we go | 23:31 |
| th0br0 | go lbt go lbt go go go! ;)( | 23:31 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: odd question, what is wimax binary supplicant doing in trunk? | 23:31 |
| thiago_home | MeeGo, in its core, is an Open Source project and it should be all in the open | 23:31 |
| thiago_home | what a company may productise it for, that's its business | 23:32 |
| arjan | Stskeeps: eh woops | 23:32 |
| arjan | Stskeeps: that's a bug | 23:32 |
| arjan | please file it in bugzila | 23:32 |
| Jaffa | thiago_home: OK, cool; so I'll point to my unasked question on #meego-meeting-questions whether architectural discussions about oFono/Telepathy stuff will be on public mailing lists now :) | 23:32 |
| w00t_ | aren't both already open projects? | 23:33 |
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| Jaffa | w00t_: arjan said (on the integration): "21:16 <+arjan> #info Yes. We're still figuring out how that is going to work exactly". So where is that "working out" happening? | 23:34 |
| w00t_ | oh bloody hell | 23:34 |
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| * w00t_ hasn't been following/forgot there was a meeting | 23:35 | |
| Stskeeps | log url above | 23:35 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: Maemo Garage has been much smaller in scope than Extras, and the RWG has to encompass all manner of surrounding-software, whether libraries or whizzy end-user apps. Maemo's Garage isn't an equivalent structure. | 23:36 |
| w00t_ | Stskeeps: ? | 23:36 |
| Stskeeps | live log url :P | 23:37 |
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| javispedro | OBS will change how garage operates? O.o | 23:38 |
| w00t_ | Stskeeps: ..where? | 23:38 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: i.e. autobuilder | 23:38 |
| Jaffa | w00t_: topic, I guess? | 23:38 |
| Stskeeps | w00t_: trac.tspre.org/meetbot somewhere | 23:38 |
| * w00t_ sees no link anywhere, gives up, and continues reading scrollback | 23:39 | |
| tekojo | javispedro, the garage term is misleading, garage in maemo and in moblin was something comepletely different | 23:39 |
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| tekojo | OBS will make a revolution in what the 'garage' will be | 23:39 |
| javispedro | http://garage.moblin.org/ | 23:39 |
| javispedro | I see... | 23:39 |
| lbt | tekojo: say it in meego-questions... :) | 23:40 |
| tekojo | but I think they are getting there :) | 23:40 |
| arjan | Jaffa: there is a difference between the minimal core and the not-required-but-nice components that can be in core | 23:41 |
| w00t_ | Stskeeps: did your question wrt 'why weekly thingies' get answered? | 23:42 |
| * w00t_ didn't really see it addressed | 23:42 | |
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| X-Fade | arjan: And that is what we want the RWG for. | 23:42 |
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| Jaffa | arjan: OK, but there's a line somewhere and then how do we manage the stuff outside that? | 23:42 |
| Jaffa | w00t_: Answer was "make it easier for people to report bugs against discrete versions" | 23:42 |
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| Jaffa | w00t_: IIRC | 23:42 |
| arjan | for me the line is "generally used by enough official apps" | 23:42 |
| w00t_ | Jaffa: ah, must have missed that | 23:42 |
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| * w00t_ is now caught up | 23:42 | |
| lbt | communit contrbuted binary drivers? | 23:42 |
| arjan | versus stuff outside that has a different "SLA/support" kind of thing | 23:42 |
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| w00t_ | (bad reason IMO really) | 23:43 |
| w00t_ | lbt: yeah, that had me puzzled too | 23:43 |
| w00t_ | slaine: huh? :P | 23:43 |
| arjan | if something is common and useful enough to support it, versus something that isn't | 23:43 |
| jusliukk | lbt, what would be the trust level of the community repos (if any)? | 23:43 |
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| Jaffa | arjan: Right. And so, for example, Hermes has used python-facebook, python-twitter and python-evolution. None of which are in "core" Maemo and there's no reason to assume there'd be in "core" MeeGo (or, if they are, some other J. Random Library is easily determinable) | 23:43 |
| lbt | jusliukk: the same as extras now... see my recent ml post | 23:43 |
| arjan | for these specific I'd like them to use libsocialweb instead | 23:44 |
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| arjan | we already have a core component to talk to social websites | 23:44 |
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| tekojo | arjan we didn't have that :) | 23:44 |
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| arjan | now we do ;-) | 23:44 |
| X-Fade | arjan: see the proposal, this more than just a garage project. | 23:44 |
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| Jaffa | arjan: But, again, there's a process for moving stuff from "used once" to "used twice" to "oh, shit, it's common, let's support it centrally". | 23:44 |
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| Jaffa | arjan: Until stuff gets to that final point, how is QA managed? How is stuff coordinated so that that end point gets reached? etc. | 23:45 |
| arjan | all good questions | 23:45 |
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| Jaffa | Hence the RWG (AIUI) ;-) | 23:45 |
| arjan | for me btw, security fixes/support is more critical than QA even | 23:45 |
| thiago_home | sounds like the KDE's "two apps" rule. | 23:46 |
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| arjan | Jaffa: I think for sure we need some kind of structure | 23:47 |
| Jaffa | lbt: I think, before kicking off more ML discussion, you should have some background on the proposal. In particular, about what Maemo Extras is; what -testing/-devel is; what Moblin Garage is; what Maemo Garage is. There seemed to be a lot of confusion when discussing the proposal about terms like "garage" | 23:47 |
| th0br0 | yay! let's give deb a good bashing ;) SCNR | 23:47 |
| arjan | WG or not is a good question | 23:47 |
| X-Fade | arjan: Also think public OBS. | 23:47 |
| lbt | Jaffa: yes, I didn't expect that | 23:47 |
| arjan | I think the TSG just said "the proposal needs more filling in, but we see it is important" | 23:48 |
| th0br0 | Jaffa: yep... there isn't much we can really discuss yet without being further informed about the current plans | 23:48 |
| slaine | what is the point of the .deb proposal ? | 23:48 |
| th0br0 | slaine: to be bashed. | 23:48 |
| slaine | am I missing something ? | 23:48 |
| javispedro | heh. | 23:48 |
| th0br0 | ;) | 23:48 |
| slaine | th0br0: lol | 23:48 |
| jusliukk | lbt, (I read the recent ml post) - you are aware that maemosec grants priviledges based on the repo where an app was installed from? if untrusted repo (eg extras) -> app gets no priviledges on device? | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | slaine: Ask a QUESTION:? (I guess to allow MeeGo user space to run on deb-based OSes like Ubuntu Netbook Remix etc) | 23:48 |
| th0br0 | Call it the beginning of the inofficial MeeGo Trolls Working Group. | 23:49 |
| Myrtti | woot leslie is jumping ship from google | 23:49 |
| slaine | Jaffa: thats what I thought it was about | 23:49 |
| thiago_home | you can't do that | 23:49 |
| arjan | people seem to not understand that there is a HUGE difference between .deb format and being able to interact packaging wise with debian distros | 23:49 |
| milliams | Jaffa: If they need that they can just build MeeGo UX for in the Ubuntu repos | 23:49 |
| thiago_home | the name Trolls is reserved | 23:49 |
| Jaffa | jusliukk: We're aware of the theory; and there's been no comment as to what repos would have what privileges granted to them | 23:49 |
| thiago_home | :-P | 23:49 |
| th0br0 | thiago_home: :P | 23:49 |
| jusliukk | jaffa, good to know :) | 23:49 |
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| slaine | but it seems to be aboubt having a .deb rebuild of meego proper | 23:49 |
| * lbt wonders about the "stigma" of being seen to support the Debian WG... | 23:49 | |
| Jaffa | lbt: ::) | 23:49 |
| lbt | I think it is nuts... | 23:50 |
| Jaffa | milliams: And what if there wants to be coordination with upstream releases? | 23:50 |
| lbt | but they should be allowed to do it | 23:50 |
| th0br0 | ;) lbt | 23:50 |
| Clay | having .deb does make it an easier upgrade path for existing maemo devices.. however beyond that i dont see much point | 23:50 |
| arjan | Clay: that is mostly fiction | 23:50 |
| w00t_ | lbt: of course they are *allowed* | 23:50 |
| javispedro | uh.. | 23:50 |
| microlith | heh | 23:50 |
| milliams | Clay: IT's going to have to be a clean wipe for installs anyway. | 23:50 |
| arjan | Clay: the upgrade path only works if the packaging rules/names/etc are also compatible | 23:50 |
| th0br0 | Clay: not really. you install a new system and you're done with it. besides, most application is already packaged for meego due to moblin/fedora | 23:50 |
| javispedro | from reading the proposal it seems that the idea is to add a debian/ folder to all the Core MeeGo packages | 23:50 |
| w00t_ | lbt: nobody is going to stop them from doing what they want to do | 23:50 |
| arjan | just the format is not good enough | 23:50 |
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| javispedro | thus you'll get a ".deb MeeGo" (ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin) | 23:50 |
| w00t_ | lbt: I do wonder what a WG is supposed to achieve at this point though | 23:50 |
| javispedro | not a "Debian MeeGo". | 23:51 |
| javispedro | interesting... | 23:51 |
| th0br0 | RPM is proven o.O | 23:51 |
| lool | (I'm not sure what to #info) | 23:51 |
| th0br0 | SuSE, Fedora, Mandriva ... | 23:51 |
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| arjan | lets please not get into an actual format war again | 23:51 |
| juliank | I prefer my approach with pkg-meego on debian.org anyway. | 23:51 |
| Jaffa | arjan: Agree about the structure, but if not a WG then what? The governance structure seems to be: TSG, WGs, projects and architects. Obviously maintaining the core repo is part of someone's job, but that's a much wider job when taking into account community apps *and* probably should have wider involvement/a process for community involvement. | 23:51 |
| lbt | yeah.... I'm mainly interested in seeing if a Meego rpm/deb thing could be good for bringing cross-over between the formats | 23:51 |
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| Jaffa | arjan: Therefore, AIUI, a WG is the only answer - unless there's a section of the project which I'm either missing or hasn't been announced. | 23:52 |
| th0br0 | IMHO the governance needs something between the TSG and the WGs... | 23:52 |
| javispedro | lbt: interesting also if you can get to autogenerate spec files and debian folders from, say, autoconfig-using "programs". | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | we didn't get the project structure announced yet didn't we? | 23:52 |
| * thiago_home discovers new shortcuts in irssi | 23:52 | |
| th0br0 | but in general, all tihsgovernance is slightly confusing ... | 23:52 |
| arjan | Jaffa: the TSG I think said that too.. they just wanted more details in the proposal | 23:52 |
| th0br0 | Stskeeps: just the stuff that's on meego.com already | 23:52 |
| * javispedro thinks about spectacle.. | 23:52 | |
| Jaffa | There seems to be a flow of "this'll be an emergent property of the project" on a couple of the WG proposals (i18n springs to mind) which seems... optimistic :-) | 23:52 |
| lbt | javispedro: yes, exactly that kind of thing | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but was to get more info | 23:53 |
| lbt | Jaffa: right now there is one WG to rule them all.... all one of them | 23:53 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: True, I'm extrapolating from existing software projects, existing OSS projects and the stated desire to involve the community ;-) | 23:53 |
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| * lbt wonders what meegomesseng is doing in meego-questions... | 23:53 | |
| Jaffa | arjan: Indeed, I think I'm just trying to persuade people (i.e. you ;-)) ahead of time and/or work out where the obvious gaps are. | 23:53 |
| thiago_home | he's rehashing Feb 15 | 23:54 |
| javispedro | lbt: he wears a "Press" vest. | 23:54 |
| lbt | heh | 23:55 |
| gaveen | I'm not saying having .deb is bad. But having MeeGo support could create more division than help among the community in the long run. Anyway the packages will need to be built as RPMs. So it duplicate the efforts too. | 23:55 |
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| slaine | now thats what i call a PFO | 23:55 |
| th0br0 | PFO? | 23:55 |
| juliank | I am happy enough with packaging the UX for Debian and Ubuntu. | 23:55 |
| th0br0 | ah :D yeah. | 23:55 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: 'please fuck off'? | 23:55 |
| javispedro | yes... | 23:56 |
| thiago_home | conference! | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | ah, good acronym | 23:56 |
| slaine | almost, polite fuck off | 23:56 |
| javispedro | well, "polite" in the IRC sense | 23:56 |
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| slaine | I mean Imad's handling of it was a good example of a PFO | 23:56 |
| javispedro | in a non-IRC meeting it would seem like the infamous scene with neo and agent smith "what use is a phone call if you don't have... VOICE" | 23:56 |
| alden | hehe | 23:57 |
| stonda | haha | 23:57 |
| w00t_ | slaine: well realistically what else can you do? :) | 23:57 |
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| w00t_ | slaine: you either say yes, or you say no | 23:57 |
| trumee | will there be successor of N900 declared in Meego conference? | 23:57 |
| th0br0 | mh, I hope i'll be able to get some time off school for this conference, although I'd have to decide between the FUDCon and this conference first ... sucks. | 23:58 |
| slaine | nod | 23:58 |
| Jaffa | trumee: Nokia don't comment on future product plans. | 23:58 |
| arjan | trumee: I doubt the nmeego conference is where nokia will announc products | 23:58 |
| X-Fade | trumee: Meego doesn't make devices. | 23:58 |
| thiago_home | trumee: uh... you want to know what will be announced at a conference? | 23:58 |
| lbt | lool: I think the deb group should stay as close as possible - wait and see what the OBS brings | 23:58 |
| thiago_home | if announcements about announcements were done, we wouldn't need the actual announcement | 23:58 |
| * w00t_ wonders if trumee wandered into the wrong place by accident :-) | 23:58 | |
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| * javispedro is tempted to ask about the "power user meeting". | 23:58 | |
| lool | lbt: Yes; can't wait to see the first OBS and SDK drops | 23:58 |
| lbt | lool: I can see the openSUSE OBS having a remote-link to the MeeGo OBS and you can package there ... :) | 23:59 |
| lool | eh that could work | 23:59 |
| Jaffa | thiago_home: Do you watch the news at all? All it is these days is "So-and-so is expected to announce today that..." (well why do they need to bother effing announcing it then?!) | 23:59 |
| lbt | also I wonder about the maemo community OBS too | 23:59 |
| saltsa_ | any screenshots of meego running on n900? | 23:59 |
| arjan | lool: btw one thing was not clear to me | 23:59 |
| thiago_home | Jaffa: if you want to know news about Nokia, read engadget.com | 23:59 |
| thiago_home | best souce of Nokia news :-P | 23:59 |
| lool | arjan: Happy to clarify if I can | 23:59 |
| thiago_home | (some of it is wrong) | 23:59 |
| arjan | did you want to make .deb packages, or did you want to make something debian compatible/interactable | 23:59 |
| arjan | hueg difference | 23:59 |
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