| lbt | Robot101: thoughts on the Repo WG ? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Robot101 | Stskeeps: the problem is, it cuts both ways. we are incredibly pedantic and thorough at code reviews, and it can be a bit of a shock/surprise to would-be external contributors | 00:00 |
| Stskeeps | Robot101: externals (my god, the nokia terminology..) also need to know that there are hard demands if you want to push out an actual consumer product | 00:00 |
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| Robot101 | Stskeeps: I've been ext-Robert McQueen for the past 5 years, I'm surprised they let us drink the coffee... :) | 00:01 |
| Stskeeps | crap code doesn't work on either side :) | 00:01 |
| Robot101 | (although, when they do, I'm surprised they drink it themselves) | 00:01 |
| Robot101 | lbt: not been keeping up, sorry | 00:01 |
| Stskeeps | it is a rather strong coffee. i have to go cold turkey on caffeine after a visit :P | 00:01 |
| lbt | Robot101: not sure if it's an area that you worry about - essentially the meego 'Universe' I think | 00:02 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a_Repository_working_group | 00:02 |
| Stskeeps | but anyway, what i hope is that we'll end up with a structure where it's hard to see if you belong to nokia/intel/orange/small subcontractor/or just someone sitting in your basement | 00:02 |
| Robot101 | lbt: well, it would be pretty reckless to ignore it - the app development community is one of the big reasons that having your own platform isn't a good idea any more | 00:03 |
| lbt | a la kernel | 00:03 |
| Robot101 | lbt: so the co-operation with intel & nokia making a platform and therefore attracting 3rd party developers, feeds back in to meego's commercial success, which in turn feeds back into collabora's | 00:03 |
| lbt | Robot101: oh yeah - but one person can only crusade on a finite number of issues... and this may not be one of yours | 00:03 |
| lbt | ie trust them to get it right -- I need to get this damned SDK to work!!! | 00:04 |
| * lbt glances at Stskeeps | 00:04 | |
| lbt | still here mate? | 00:04 |
| * Stskeeps hides | 00:04 | |
| th0br0 | what sdk, lbt? | 00:05 |
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| lbt | just an example | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | i really just hope we can make sane developer environments for meego | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | i'd hate to see a regression in that area | 00:05 |
| lbt | we can... use OBS | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | i'd love to | 00:05 |
| lbt | whether we will.... | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:05 |
| Robot101 | in terms of a specific crusade, no. I think Nokia have been doing pretty well with Maemo so far, sure there has been some pushing and shoving but on the whole, the "failings" I perceive of the Maemo community have been by technical or commercial decisions that have come from people too far removed from the community / open source process. | 00:06 |
| Robot101 | like, announcing you're going to EOL half of your platform APIs on your new platform = not a good way to stimulate 3rd party investment | 00:06 |
| Robot101 | the thing is, now Intel just did exactly the same thing to all of their partners too | 00:07 |
| lbt | yeah - that's not a facet I'm familiar with | 00:07 |
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| Robot101 | but, I also appreciate these aren't easy decisions, what's right isn't always possible, and the right decision at the wrong time can also be just as harmful | 00:08 |
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| Robot101 | I think Nokia is, on the whole, pretty good at being right on these things. I think they could do with enhancing their timing at converging on the right decisions though. :) | 00:09 |
| lbt | the area I'm currently not so sure about is the engagement with the community | 00:09 |
| lbt | there are organised groups and interested people "out here" who are not being communicated with | 00:10 |
| Stskeeps | in my rather gothic way of thinking, the skin of some teams are being turned inside out, moving internals to deal with externals directly and the timing for that to happen is day one :P | 00:10 |
| Stskeeps | and it isn't a pretty process to make that happen | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:11 |
| lbt | OK - but now you have a big problem | 00:11 |
| lbt | instead of lots of little ones | 00:11 |
| th0br0 | what has been missing from day pre-zero is proper information on the internal meego structure at nokia / intel so far | 00:11 |
| Robot101 | th0br0: I think that, tbh, that structure is still being built internally too | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | you're assuming there was one from day zero | 00:11 |
| th0br0 | and just as well the lack of ints getting to the exts | 00:11 |
| lbt | and having a "grand opening" | 00:11 |
| lbt | instead of each team just starting to use mailing lists | 00:12 |
| thiago_home | Nokia Devices has an R&D division | 00:12 |
| Stskeeps | people are starting to pop out though | 00:12 |
| thiago_home | one of the R&D divisions is called "Maemo Devices" | 00:12 |
| th0br0 | imho there should have been some structure from day zero... | 00:12 |
| Stskeeps | sdk people, etc | 00:12 |
| lbt | and a package or 2 appearing on the repos/gits/OBS | 00:12 |
| thiago_home | that's the people who do Maemo and will eventually be doing MeeGo | 00:12 |
| Stskeeps | th0br0: considering that many people on inside didn't know about this, it was probably a little too difficult to organise for day zero | 00:12 |
| lbt | thiago_home: yes | 00:12 |
| thiago_home | another of the R&D divisions is called Application Services Framework (ASF) that includes Qt | 00:12 |
| th0br0 | but anyway, i really g2g now... got some sleep to catch up with and i haven't yet decided whether i'll go visit the musée d'orsay tomorrow or sth else (I'm in paris right now) so yeah, take care and ttyl (wednesday at the latest) | 00:13 |
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| Robot101 | ooh, a renaming! | 00:13 |
| th0br0 | true Stskeeps | 00:13 |
| lbt | by th0br0 | 00:13 |
| Robot101 | just as well ASF isn't 10 other things otherwise it'd be confusing :D | 00:13 |
| thiago_home | Robot101: we can wait for the next reorganisation | 00:13 |
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| Robot101 | thiago_home: cool. will that one bring more trolltech people onto IRC? :) | 00:13 |
| thiago_home | that doesn't have to wait for a reorg | 00:14 |
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| Robot101 | thiago_home: don't get me wrong, I think you're an absolute hero, I just keep hearing "I know someone at Trolltech, I'll ask them!" "Thiago?" "yeah" "I already asked him" :D | 00:14 |
| thiago_home | together, ASF+MD is about 2100 people | 00:14 |
| lbt | and 1 small ADSL line on thiago's desk | 00:15 |
| Robot101 | but, being thrown in to Nokia and Maemo and now MeeGo is gonna be a bit of a culture shock for anybody | 00:15 |
| * thiago_home has a VDSL2 at home | 00:15 | |
| CosmoHill | what's that? | 00:15 |
| lbt | fast | 00:15 |
| CosmoHill | oh ADSL2? | 00:15 |
| thiago_home | no | 00:15 |
| thiago_home | I used to have an ADSL2+ | 00:15 |
| thiago_home | I upgraded to VDSL2 | 00:15 |
| * Robot101 just found out the other day that where Collabora's new offices are, they estimate 1Mbps for ADSL :( | 00:15 | |
| Robot101 | time for a fibre tbh | 00:15 |
| lbt | Robot101: trunking | 00:16 |
| CosmoHill | we get fibre sometime | 00:16 |
| CosmoHill | only got ADSL2+ last year | 00:16 |
| Robot101 | lbt: yeah, with AAISP we can do that, but the problem is it causes packet reordering | 00:16 |
| thiago_home | anyway, most of ASF resources are not dedicated to Maemo/MeeGo | 00:16 |
| Robot101 | lbt: so there's a limit to how much faster adding more lines makes it go | 00:16 |
| thiago_home | or, put another way, the resources dedicated to Maemo/MeeGo are a minority | 00:16 |
| CosmoHill | i got told my router doesn't support ADSL2+ by my ISP after 3 months... | 00:17 |
| thiago_home | ASF is supposed to aggregate all of the cross-platform work | 00:17 |
| w00t_ | Robot101: I swear thiago is a metaperson actually powered by half of TT | 00:17 |
| lbt | mine's gone up from 1800 to ~3Mb over the last 6 months :) | 00:17 |
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| CosmoHill | damn you | 00:18 |
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| * lbt still wants apt-cacher for rpms | 00:19 | |
| * CosmoHill gives lbt a compiler and vim | 00:20 | |
| CosmoHill | get working | 00:20 |
| lbt | perl please... | 00:20 |
| lbt | hmm does meego have parrot? | 00:21 |
| CosmoHill | use the compiler to make perl | 00:21 |
| * lbt sneaks of to have a look | 00:21 | |
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| CosmoHill | am I allowed to look down on people who buy a netbook then wonder why it won't play their latest games or cpu intensive apps | 00:34 |
| CosmoHill | or why you can't install vista over windows CE | 00:34 |
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| leinir | Yes, you are :) | 00:38 |
| CosmoHill | "Why can't I play Crysis on my Dell Mini?" | 00:39 |
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| leinir | Or, rather, you should frown greatly at the sales people who did not ask the right questions before selling their customers underpowered devices | 00:39 |
| CosmoHill | "I duno, why can't a tow a large caravan with my nissan micra" | 00:39 |
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| CosmoHill | leinir: the same sales people that tell you you need a quad core and 4GB of RAM to use word and youtube | 00:49 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:35 |
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| GAN900 | CosmoHill, you don't? :) | 01:36 |
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| CosmoHill | no :( | 01:42 |
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| CosmoHill | yay intel drivers | 01:50 |
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| Nichi | Hello, is this where I can ask a question? | 02:38 |
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| w00t_ | Nichi: sure | 02:41 |
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| Nichi | Ok, where can I find technical details about MeeGo? | 02:41 |
| w00t_ | what sort of details are you after | 02:42 |
| Nichi | If I wanted to develope an application, is it a going to support the open standards used on desktops? | 02:44 |
| w00t_ | can you be more specific? I mean, I want to help.. but I need to know exactly what you're after | 02:44 |
| w00t_ | that's a big topic | 02:44 |
| Nichi | Will it have it's own libary or api | 02:45 |
| Nichi | I probably aren't making much sense | 02:45 |
| w00t_ | MeeGo will use a lot of libraries and APIs used on regular Linux platforms, like Qt and Gtk, probably filtering down to other libraries like gstreamer etc. specific details on *what* will be available aren't yet known | 02:46 |
| Nichi | Wait, nevermind | 02:46 |
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| Nichi | Ya, says SDK will use cross-platform APIs | 02:47 |
| w00t_ | mhm | 02:48 |
| Nichi | Meh | 02:49 |
| Nichi | Qt mainly I presume | 02:49 |
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| w00t_ | Nichi: yes | 02:56 |
| w00t_ | Nichi: well, that is the "recommended" path, you of course aren't forced to use it | 02:56 |
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| Nichi | Oh | 02:57 |
| Nichi | I see | 02:57 |
| Nichi | thanks | 02:57 |
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| anotnac | yoiu guys seen this MeeGo tablet coming late 2010 http://sify.com/news/a-look-at-openpeak-s-opentablet-7-an-apple-ipad-competitor-imagegallery-offbeat-kd1r76ejhaj.html | 04:18 |
| Myrtti | the screenshot looks 100% credible.... not | 04:20 |
| anotnac | its real | 04:20 |
| anotnac | its no leak | 04:20 |
| Myrtti | meh, need more caffeine | 04:21 |
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| Myrtti | s/screenshot/view of the screenview/ | 04:21 |
| anotnac | http://www.mydigitallife.info/2010/02/21/openpeak-opentablet-7-moorestown-based-ip-media-phone-with-meego-os/ | 04:21 |
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| Myrtti | why can't I find anywhere on openpeaks own website that the os is meego? | 04:23 |
| Myrtti | not even on the pressrelease | 04:25 |
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| anotnac | heres a video preview | 04:25 |
| anotnac | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8y6WhpdDxw | 04:25 |
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| Myrtti | what is this openpeak platform the pressrelease talks about? | 04:26 |
| Myrtti | oh, the software on that is done with flash | 04:27 |
| Myrtti | doesn't sound like meego | 04:27 |
| anotnac | its probably moblin cuustomised and branded as meego | 04:27 |
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| anotnac | just found some more info, its not meego but they claim its meego ready | 04:35 |
| anotnac | hmm i'm finding lot of conflicting reports about the OS | 04:36 |
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| Stskeeps | morning! | 07:58 |
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| Stskeeps | morning yanli | 08:29 |
| yanli | morning Stskeeps | 08:29 |
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| p30n | hey all | 08:52 |
| p30n | anyone alive in here atm ? | 08:52 |
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| Stskeeps | yup | 08:53 |
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| Stskeeps | yanli: is there some way in %packages to indicate i want a package from a certain repo, or version? | 09:33 |
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| yanli | Stskeeps, sorry, i'm not sure, i don't know too much about ks file | 09:33 |
| Stskeeps | k | 09:34 |
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| dl9pf_ | moin | 09:57 |
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| slaine | yay, more snow | 10:42 |
| slaine | </sarcasm> | 10:42 |
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| Surfa | if it just were snow.. | 10:44 |
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| slaine | Surfa: true | 10:44 |
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| Tomstang | any body here? | 11:13 |
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| Stskeeps | shoot | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:14 |
| Tomstang | o | 11:14 |
| slaine | Tomstang: quiet a lot of us | 11:15 |
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| Tomstang | thanks is that meego room? | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | it is | 11:16 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: interesting how quiet it's gotten here over the last few weeks | 11:17 |
| Tomstang | well can i use it whit my N900 now? | 11:17 |
| slaine | Tomstang: it's not released yet | 11:17 |
| slaine | code repositories open tomorrow | 11:18 |
| Tomstang | 3/31? | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: silence before the storm | 11:18 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: very true, will be interesting to see who returns to shout | 11:18 |
| slaine | Tomstang: yes | 11:18 |
| slaine | Tomstang: I'd imagine you'll start to see alpha images pretty quickly | 11:19 |
| slaine | but initially it won't be a full replacement for your n900's os stack | 11:19 |
| slaine | The aim is to have MeeGo 1.0 release for May iirc | 11:19 |
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| slaine | And if I'm not mistaken for both n900 and netbooks | 11:19 |
| Tomstang | thanks buddy | 11:19 |
| slaine | np | 11:20 |
| Tomstang | where i can download code? | 11:20 |
| slaine | we'll know tomorrow | 11:20 |
| slaine | I'd imagine repo.meego.com | 11:20 |
| Tomstang | last 8 hours | 11:21 |
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| slaine | I'm not sure what time(zone) on the 31st the code is going to open | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | GMT+14 | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:22 |
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| slaine | morning dneary | 11:22 |
| dneary | morning slaine | 11:22 |
| Tomstang | might be | 11:23 |
| Tomstang | +8 haha | 11:23 |
| dneary | Tomstang, Is. | 11:23 |
| dneary | Tomorrow everyone has to say happy birthday to me :) | 11:24 |
| Tomstang | is your birthday tomorry? | 11:25 |
| dneary | Tomstang, yup | 11:25 |
| slaine | It's meego's birthday too | 11:25 |
| slaine | how cool is that | 11:25 |
| Tomstang | cool | 11:26 |
| Tomstang | you should have a birthday party for both of you O(∩_∩)O | 11:27 |
| dneary | Let's wait for the announcement first... it might slip into April 1st | 11:27 |
| dneary | & then no-one would believe it | 11:27 |
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| Tomstang | yeap | 11:29 |
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| Tomstang | +14 UK ? | 11:29 |
| Tomstang | +14 UK ? | 11:30 |
| lbt | Kiritibati | 11:30 |
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| slaine | lbt, lol, that reminds me of the old Wing Commander games | 11:30 |
| Tomstang | oh | 11:30 |
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| Tomstang | see u later i got go | 11:35 |
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| alden | tomorrow is meego's birthday? | 11:47 |
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| dneary | slaine, In the projects you've worked on, has anyone ever come up with a decent way for documentation maintainers to receive docs patches? | 11:50 |
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| slaine | dneary, What's documentation ? | 11:51 |
| thiago | alden: yeah, we'll do a c-section :-P | 11:51 |
| dneary | slaine, I mean, every project I've been involved with has required a toolchain for building docs (gtkdoc, docbook lite, latex, doxygen, javadoc, whatever) and expected people who wanted to submit, say, a patch for a paragraph which needed re-writing as a diff -u against the svn/git/cvs repository | 11:52 |
| slaine | nod | 11:52 |
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| slaine | I've not seen it done any other way unfortunately | 11:53 |
| slaine | documentation is code | 11:53 |
| dneary | slaine, Everything from API documentation to user docs for an application or graphical environment, including developer guides and tutorials | 11:53 |
| dneary | Docs is cods | 11:53 |
| dneary | docs is code, yes | 11:53 |
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| mrec | Hi, where can someone report a kernel bug? | 11:53 |
| slaine | so there's a metadocument that a toolchain parses to create documents | 11:53 |
| dneary | But unlike code, you can submit intelligible patches to the "compiled" docs | 11:54 |
| * lbt really liked the djangodocs annotation approach. | 11:54 | |
| dneary | Say your docs are HTML, you can convert that to plain text | 11:54 |
| lbt | The thing about it is that you could extend that using a decent web app | 11:54 |
| lbt | so the annotated para has a guid | 11:54 |
| dneary | And submit a "patch" to the plain text in a plain text email | 11:55 |
| dneary | Then someone else would have to take that suggestion & integrate it into the docbook source | 11:55 |
| lbt | and the tools could at least point the delta to the code | 11:55 |
| slaine | what format is the patch ? | 11:55 |
| dneary | slaine, Like this: | 11:55 |
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| dneary | "The paragraph starting "If you want to have the search terms highlighted..." might read better if it said "When using contextual searching, every occurrence of the search term in the document can be highlighted by choosing the "Highlight all" option in the contextual search bar" | 11:58 |
| dneary | Send. | 11:58 |
| dneary | Or proposed in bugzilla | 11:58 |
| dneary | Whatever | 11:58 |
| dneary | The point is, we can use English & searching instead of patch | 11:58 |
| slaine | At a basic level, the problem is that with generated documentation, patching the output is useless unless the changes are incorporated at the inputs. So "someone" has to reverse engineer the patch to patch the input. Dev's don't like doing that so more often than not the changes are lost. The only way I've seen this handled properly is via a wiki or other CMS system. | 11:59 |
| lbt | slaine: so you need something that ties a para in the html doc to the source | 11:59 |
| lbt | then when you click 'submit patch' | 12:00 |
| slaine | which is what a wiki/CMS will provide | 12:00 |
| dneary | slaine, Yeah, that's what I said: "Then someone else would have to take that suggestion & integrate it into the docbook source" | 12:00 |
| RST38h | What generated documentation? | 12:00 |
| slaine | but that's not going to help someone updating a para for the MX gtkdoc for example | 12:00 |
| lbt | it gras the source string, opens up a little window with before/after and sends a patch | 12:00 |
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| RST38h | Somebody wants to curse us with generated documentation again? | 12:00 |
| dneary | slaine, The problem with a wiki is that (to my knowledge) there's no gitty way to do it where patches get submitted & a maintainer reviews them & accepts or rejects them | 12:01 |
| slaine | nod | 12:01 |
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| slaine | So basically, you're talking about a web tool that'll let people highlight some text, type in alt text and submit a git diff to a maintainer | 12:01 |
| lbt | yes | 12:02 |
| dneary | RST38h, Worse than that - "official" MeeGo docs are being written using RoboHelp, and then published as HTML & XML for importing into transifex | 12:02 |
| dneary | slaine, That would rock my world | 12:02 |
| dneary | It wouldn't actually be that hard, I think... | 12:02 |
| RST38h | dneary: Am I the only one seeing another clusterfuck coming? | 12:02 |
| slaine | If the web tool knew about the source that generated the output that should be doable. I don't know of any such tool though | 12:02 |
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| slaine | Would certainly rock though, and be valuable for other upstream projects | 12:03 |
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| slaine | But, to be clear, the bulk of docs related to MeeGo will be upstream docs | 12:03 |
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| dneary | You'd need a docbook to html front-end, plus an edit/preview/submit form which generated a patch, and a review queue which would have to be public, with a read-only interface, and an accept/reject/review interface for the maintainer | 12:03 |
| dneary | The question is whether to allow the maintainer to modify & accept patches | 12:04 |
| dneary | slaine, The bulk of developer docs, yes | 12:04 |
| dneary | slaine, That is, API guides & even developer guides for stuff like DBus | 12:04 |
| slaine | yeah, but user guides for the UI etc. would be MeeGo specific, so it'd be handy there alright | 12:05 |
| dneary | slaine, But there is a world of docs for MeeGo only - style guides, embedded development guides (anything related to the SDK), tutorials, documentation for MeeGo applications, etc | 12:05 |
| slaine | nod | 12:05 |
| dneary | RST38h, We're discussing the toolchain (and, more importantly, the requirements) on meego-communiurrent thinking was yesterday, let's give the situation some time to evolvety (or is it meego-dev?) - Margie just indicated what c | 12:06 |
| dneary | "urrent thinking was yesterday, let's give the situation some time to evolve" should have been at the end, not in the middle | 12:07 |
| dneary | Ruddy sensitive touchpad too close to the keyboard. | 12:07 |
| slaine | lol | 12:11 |
| slaine | took a few attempts to parsify that | 12:12 |
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| amanda9 | http://www.mdhjakten.se/dela/?id=dti2d6s | 12:41 |
| amanda9 | meeegooo | 12:41 |
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| * slaine lols at latest clutter list email | 12:43 | |
| Stskeeps | amanda9: wtf? :P | 12:44 |
| slaine | " I want to write this program (yeah, right). Can you tell me if someone has already done the same and if so where is the code. If not, I'll follow up asking how to do it." | 12:44 |
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| Tm_T | Stskeeps: spam | 12:46 |
| Tm_T | Stskeeps: been circulating various channels now day or two | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | oh dear, that university just went on my blacklist | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.mdhjakten.se/ :P | 12:48 |
| Tm_T | Stskeeps: you might like to remove it from channel too | 12:49 |
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| poutsi | sorry about the OT but does anybody know where desktop widget settings are stored in fremantle? need to manually remove a widget that's causing hildon-home to thrash | 13:40 |
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| lbt | thiago: strikes me that the Qt API docs are an area people may want to annotate/patch/comment - do you have a process for that (yet)? | 14:23 |
| w00t_ | for patching, I'd guess it would be modifying the doc on the source and submitting a MR on gitorious | 14:26 |
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| koupsa | hi there | 14:28 |
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| Stskeeps | meego-dev really attracts some crazies | 14:35 |
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| w00t_ | Stskeeps: :-) | 14:37 |
| w00t_ | (I assume you mean me) | 14:37 |
| thiago | lbt: we're very proud of our docs :-) | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | no, read latest post | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | [MeeGo-dev] Say Goodbye to GTK, Will Meego open to what extent? More than Android or Less than? | 14:38 |
| w00t_ | Stskeeps: oh lord | 14:38 |
| w00t_ | the subject already causes me to headdesk | 14:38 |
| lbt | thiago: I know - I usually use them as the gold standard :) | 14:39 |
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| lbt | OTOH the majority come from the C++ src .... so may not be as relevant to the docs toolchain debate | 14:40 |
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| thiago | yes | 14:42 |
| thiago | everything is tied in to the Qt source code | 14:42 |
| lbt | Even tutorials? | 14:43 |
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| th0br0 | Stskeeps: it's a justified question though. | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | well, he completely ignores what nokia is doing with qt.. | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:01 |
| chakie_work | http://meego.org/ looks broken | 15:01 |
| w00t_ | I suppose, yes, if you're incapable of doing research and thinking about what you find | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | chakie_work: not owned by the project | 15:01 |
| w00t_ | chakie_work: .com, .org is not related to meego. | 15:01 |
| chakie_work | w00t_: ok, so where to look then | 15:02 |
| chakie_work | hm, the topic here says "MeeGo - http://meego.com" | 15:02 |
| w00t_ | as I, and the topic indicate, meego.com | 15:02 |
| w00t_ | not meego.org. | 15:02 |
| chakie_work | but that's not related? | 15:02 |
| th0br0 | Stskeeps: yeah... still... GTK is easier to use than Qt IMHO, you don't require the super-fat qt designer for it :D | 15:02 |
| w00t_ | .com and .org are two totally different TLDs.. | 15:02 |
| th0br0 | besides, android isn't open source at all. | 15:03 |
| th0br0 | sure, they released most of the code. | 15:03 |
| chakie_work | w00t_: oh, ok, didn't know that | 15:03 |
| th0br0 | but there isn't much (read nothing) you can really do with it | 15:03 |
| w00t_ | th0br0: you don't need to use Qt Designer to use Qt, if you don't want | 15:03 |
| th0br0 | w00t_: true, but if you want to design UIs using Qt there isn't much other (good) choice) | 15:04 |
| w00t_ | th0br0: I'd assume because those that use designer that have a problem with it contribute to it - or alternatively, don't use a graphical designer tool | 15:05 |
| w00t_ | (there's plenty of both) | 15:05 |
| th0br0 | true. i tend to use it from time to time too anyway... | 15:06 |
| th0br0 | it's just that the glade designer is far more lightweight than the qt one | 15:06 |
| chakie_work | designer isn't a fat application | 15:06 |
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| th0br0 | imho it is... it takes about 45s to actually start up but i'm running gnome right now | 15:08 |
| th0br0 | but that might be caused by all the kde stuff | 15:08 |
| th0br0 | nvm actually, it isn't of much importance | 15:08 |
| w00t_ | th0br0: something is probably wrong with your setup | 15:08 |
| w00t_ | I can launch creator and finish opening a ~50 file project in well under 10 seconds | 15:09 |
| chakie_work | i guess glade would be just as heavy on a kde desktop | 15:09 |
| w00t_ | (I'm also using gnome at present) | 15:09 |
| koivula | software's loading time is by far the most important feat to judge it. | 15:09 |
| chakie_work | heh | 15:09 |
| th0br0 | well, yeah... i just confused designer-qt4 and qtcreator ... but nvm | 15:09 |
| w00t_ | th0br0: designer and creator are related in that they reuse code (I believe), if anything, creator is a superset of designer | 15:10 |
| koivula | i restart software all the time just for fun. | 15:10 |
| th0br0 | mh k. | 15:10 |
| w00t_ | koivula: well, no, there is a point to that | 15:10 |
| w00t_ | 45 seconds *is* a long time, regardless of how infrequently you do it | 15:10 |
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| th0br0 | anyway, i'm back to readin gsome more wot now. (wheel of time) | 15:10 |
| w00t_ | (until I did that test now, I'd had my creator instance open a week :P) | 15:11 |
| slaine | it takes a few minutes to open Qt Creator on my ubuntu netbook install | 15:11 |
| koivula | I for example thought | 15:11 |
| thiago | lbt: yes, all tutorials are Qt source code | 15:11 |
| w00t_ | slaine: netbook is a bit of a different kettle of fish | 15:11 |
| koivula | jave would be good. but virtual machine is really slow to start. | 15:12 |
| thiago | $QTDIR/examples/tutorial | 15:12 |
| koivula | jave/java | 15:12 |
| w00t_ | slaine: would be interesting to see where the bottlenecks are there, IO would be something I'd be curious about | 15:12 |
| slaine | w00t_: in fairness, there's something wrong when my whole OS and User Environment takes 16 seconds where as 1 app takes minutes | 15:13 |
| lbt | *nod* OK - like I say, good docs and it would be nice to consider them as a base process | 15:13 |
| slaine | I think it's an issue with the Ubunutu build | 15:13 |
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| slaine | someone here said they had the same problem | 15:13 |
| w00t_ | slaine: ah, that also might be related perhaps.. mine is self-built | 15:13 |
| w00t_ | slaine: still.. minutes compared with the desktop env starting in seconds is something very, very wrong somewhere :P | 15:14 |
| andre | slaine: it takes 2.3s here to start and open a test project. warm cache, though. | 15:14 |
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| slaine | andre, are you on 10.04 ? | 15:15 |
| andre | slaine: try qtcreator -profile with a recent build | 15:15 |
| andre | slaine: no, 9.10 | 15:15 |
| thiago | it takes 15s for me with a cold cache, but less than 3 with a warm cache | 15:15 |
| thiago | and this is a debug mode Qt and a debug mode Creator | 15:15 |
| w00t_ | andre: that is quite useful | 15:15 |
| slaine | I've applied a bunch of updates since the last time I tried, I'll give it another shot | 15:15 |
| andre | slaine: also note that you could switch off plugins you don't need nowadays | 15:16 |
| w00t_ | thiago: so presumably a largeish part of that is in IO.. debug mode gives huge binaries, no? | 15:16 |
| thiago | yes, but the ELF loader doesn't need to load it all | 15:16 |
| thiago | however, in debug mode, all of the Tulip functions are non-inline | 15:17 |
| thiago | and not optimised | 15:17 |
| w00t_ | ow. | 15:17 |
| w00t_ | and considering how often they're used.. right | 15:17 |
| thiago | in any case, I keep my Creator open for days at a time | 15:17 |
| thiago | I restart it only when I've built a new version | 15:17 |
| slaine | ok, they've obviously fixed it | 15:18 |
| slaine | 6.7s there | 15:18 |
| w00t_ | thiago: right, more or less the same | 15:18 |
| w00t_ | slaine: much more sane :P | 15:18 |
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| slaine | thats good, I can actually use it now :) | 15:18 |
| thiago | it takes far longer to rescan QtCore, QtGui, QtNetwork and QtDBus, plus half a dozen unit tests | 15:18 |
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| slaine | though, I'll probably be nuking the install tomorrow :) | 15:18 |
| w00t_ | hah | 15:19 |
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| w00t_ | Stskeeps: oh dear | 15:24 |
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| _abhishek | Hi I want to setup the meego development environment I went through http://meego.com/developers/getting-started its says I require meego toolchain from where do I get this ?? | 17:54 |
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| Stskeeps | _abhishek: i'd wait for day one :) | 17:55 |
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| _abhishek | Stskeeps: you mean its not yet out ?? | 17:57 |
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| Stskeeps | correct | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | come tomorrow things should start picking up | 17:58 |
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| _abhishek | Stskeeps: cool thanks a lot :) | 17:59 |
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| slaine | Anyone know if the intel 'Pine Trail' Atom processors are supported by Fedora12 ? | 18:11 |
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| microlith | ... | 18:26 |
| microlith | moblin can't connect to cifs shares | 18:26 |
| microlith | nice | 18:26 |
| dneary | microlith, Why is that nice? | 18:28 |
| microlith | sarcasm doesn't convey well across IRC | 18:29 |
| slaine | why would moblin connect to cifs shares | 18:33 |
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| DeuX | any news on download date yet ? | 18:44 |
| Guest74361 | DeuX: No | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | end of month is tomorrow, so sometime between 00:00 and 23:59 GMT+14 | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | ok, maybe earlier | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:46 |
| w00t_ | not if Stskeeps has his way! | 18:47 |
| w00t_ | :P | 18:47 |
| Stskeeps | the LHC didn't help the deadline | 18:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:47 |
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| w00t_ | ah, I see, the plan was for the world to end before the code release | 18:48 |
| w00t_ | :P | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | indeed | 18:49 |
| slaine | could still have a black hole right now, but time is so stretched we'd never know | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | talk about day zero and day one taking forever.. | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:50 |
| slaine | hehe | 18:50 |
| slaine | It feels like we're in a black hole, how's that ;) | 18:50 |
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| DawnFoster | let's talk about how we can create that black hole :) | 18:56 |
| DawnFoster | kidding. we're making progress. I know it feels like a black hole already. | 18:59 |
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| DawnFoster | I'm really looking forward to having stuff out in the open. | 19:00 |
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| slaine | So are we | 19:02 |
| slaine | :) | 19:02 |
| slaine | DawnFoster: Is there an approximate time when the repos will be opened ? | 19:03 |
| DawnFoster | the exact time hasn't been announced | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | ah, true, there's a TSG meeting tomorrow too | 19:04 |
| DawnFoster | I can tell you that we're not planning to wait until midnight, but no promises :) | 19:04 |
| DawnFoster | we will have some kind of update in the TSG (still trying to wrestle the agenda out). | 19:05 |
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| DawnFoster | I can tell you that the TSG meeting will be at 20:00 UTC | 19:05 |
| lbt | live DNS push? | 19:05 |
| DawnFoster | http://wiki.meego.com/TSG_meetings | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: being a bit nitpicky, there's nothing on the agenda and it's frozen 48 hours before ;) | 19:06 |
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| DawnFoster | yeah, that 48 hours was a little aggessive :) | 19:06 |
| DawnFoster | My plan is to get it out 24 hours in advance | 19:06 |
| DawnFoster | things are a bit chaotic right now | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | you can always blame it on the timeshift caused by the LHC that everyone else didn't notice ;) | 19:07 |
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| DawnFoster | yes! that was it. no chaos here. blame it on the LHC | 19:07 |
| slaine | Oh dear, I don't envy you guys. tomorrow will be a rough/exciting day | 19:08 |
| w00t_ | daylight savings! | 19:08 |
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| Stskeeps | slaine: i fully expect it to be total chaos to the extent a lot of volunteers sign up for helping out cos they identify a lot of problems :P | 19:09 |
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| slaine | rofl | 19:10 |
| slaine | "This is broken, I'll fix it. me me me me" | 19:11 |
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| Stskeeps | don't underestimate the value of intentionally creating itches | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:12 |
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| Arnie-75 | Hello. Does anyone know when MeeGo (or Mobline 2.2) will be released? Will there be some preview-images like Moblin had? When will they be released? | 19:20 |
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| Stskeeps | day one should be end of this month | 19:21 |
| Arnie-75 | day one = release of final? | 19:22 |
| DawnFoster | In the last TSG meeting, this is what was communicated: MeeGo 1.0 in May. MeeGo 1.1 in October. 6 month cadence from there on. | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | Arnie-75: more like the project starts in the open, i think | 19:22 |
| DawnFoster | day one is when we start opening up the code repositories for developers to use for development. | 19:23 |
| Arnie-75 | ok | 19:23 |
| DawnFoster | day one is not a release and is not final | 19:23 |
| DawnFoster | Here are some more details in the minutes to the last TSG meeting: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-24-19.58.html | 19:23 |
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| Arnie-75 | thanks, I'll reead it | 19:23 |
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| DawnFoster | we have another TSG meeting tomorrow at 20:00 UTC where the TSG will provide some additional updates | 19:24 |
| DawnFoster | http://wiki.meego.com/TSG_meetings | 19:24 |
| dneary | Hi DawnFoster | 19:27 |
| DawnFoster | hi dneary | 19:27 |
| dneary | DawnFoster, Let me know if I'm stepping on any toes (or if you vehemently disagree with any of the drums I've been banging) - I'm keen to help, and looking for opportunities | 19:28 |
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| dneary | I'm interested to see how your metrics dashboard comes along | 19:28 |
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| DawnFoster | I'm trying to get an answer to your documentation licensing question now. | 19:29 |
| dneary | I saw you were involved in Ignite Portland also - very cool. | 19:29 |
| DawnFoster | Once we get the code out, we should get a better feel for how to get people more involved. | 19:29 |
| dneary | DawnFoster, Thanks! Those kinds of things are easier to do at the start than they are to fix afterwards | 19:29 |
| DawnFoster | yeah, I've been involved in organizing all of the Ignite Portland events (we've done 8 of them)! | 19:30 |
| DawnFoster | It's one of my favorite events. | 19:30 |
| dneary | I just organised the first Ignite Lyon for GIW | 19:30 |
| dneary | Good fun | 19:30 |
| DawnFoster | Cool - how did it go? | 19:30 |
| DawnFoster | it's such a fast-paced fun event | 19:30 |
| dneary | I still have video to edit & publish | 19:31 |
| dneary | We had 13 speakers, on subjects from free software & free culture to running & innovations in forage for dairy cows | 19:31 |
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| dneary | A fun night :) | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | nice! the diversity is one of the things I love about Ignite. | 19:32 |
| DawnFoster | we are lucky to have a streaming video guy who handles the video for us. | 19:33 |
| DawnFoster | it can take forever to edit / publish video | 19:33 |
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| dneary | Yeah, me too | 19:34 |
| dneary | The cow feed was my favourite talk of the night | 19:34 |
| dneary | Followed by "How to bankrupt your first company as quickly as possible" | 19:35 |
| dneary | (all in French I'm afraid, so unless you're a French speaker you won't be able to appreciate them) | 19:35 |
| dneary | Anyway - I'm off for the night | 19:35 |
| DawnFoster | we had one on how to kill and eat a roadkill deer once - not my *favorite* talk, but one of the more interesting. | 19:35 |
| szbalint | heheh | 19:35 |
| DawnFoster | later | 19:35 |
| dneary | Bye | 19:35 |
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| * mmeeks wonders if anaz is around | 19:40 | |
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| DawnFoster | mmeeks - did you need something from him? Not sure if he's around or not. | 19:48 |
| mmeeks | DawnFoster: yep - a build-service configuration question | 19:48 |
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| * Shapeshifter notices that maemo gitorious is now meego gitorious. | 20:13 | |
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| Stskeeps | http://maemo.gitorious.org/ is still there | 20:16 |
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| lcuk | and http://git.maemo.org is too | 20:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | yeah I was kinda confused. because tracker is in meego design, while libqttracker still has maemo design on gitorious. | 21:10 |
| Shapeshifter | Does someone know what meego will mainly be using for file associations? Just /usr/share/applications/defaults.list? No xdg-mime? or gconf? | 21:10 |
| thiago_home | xdg-mime | 21:10 |
| Shapeshifter | thiago_home: thanks :) | 21:11 |
| thiago_home | but the user-preferences are not specified | 21:11 |
| thiago_home | KDE and GNOME don't share that part | 21:11 |
| thiago_home | actually, I'm guessing here, but I don't see why not, since that's the freedesktop.org standard | 21:13 |
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| alden | meego source released yet? | 21:48 |
| thiago_home | you're one day early | 21:49 |
| alden | i thought day1 was 31st ? | 21:49 |
| thiago_home | so you expect code on day 0? | 21:50 |
| alden | but we are having the meego meeting tonight right? | 21:50 |
| thiago_home | no, tomorrow | 21:50 |
| DawnFoster | here are the details on the TSG meeting: http://wiki.meego.com/TSG_meetings (date / time / etc.) | 21:51 |
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| DawnFoster | we'll have the agenda up soon. | 21:51 |
| * thiago_home ponders if it's the 31st already for alden | 21:51 | |
| thiago_home | that would explain a lot | 21:51 |
| alden | it is | 21:52 |
| thiago_home | sorry, we're still in "yesterday" :-) | 21:53 |
| thiago_home | the TSG meeting is still 25 hours away | 21:53 |
| thiago_home | so adjust your expectations | 21:53 |
| alden | heh sure | 21:53 |
| alden | my bad | 21:53 |
| DawnFoster | darn time zones :) | 21:53 |
| thiago_home | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time | 21:54 |
| DawnFoster | yeah, sounds much less confusing :) | 21:55 |
| thiago_home | the TSG meeting will be on March 31st, @875 | 21:55 |
| thiago_home | or another very useful format is Julian Day 2455288.375 | 21:58 |
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| GAN900 | UTC is pretty unambiguous. ;) | 22:05 |
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| cyberkonsult | sooooo .... where will the gst-plugins-ugly be at? | 22:06 |
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