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| thiago_home | drivespace :-) | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
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| vlj | hi | 00:07 |
| vlj | there is no more jhbuild | 00:07 |
| vlj | for moblin | 00:07 |
| vlj | :/ | 00:07 |
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| Pwalpubien | Hi | 00:28 |
| CosmoHill | hey | 00:28 |
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| Pwalpubien | Looking for a great vidéo of my feet ? | 00:28 |
| Pwalpubien | 136 views !! | 00:29 |
| Pwalpubien | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycoK7zGjt7g | 00:29 |
| CosmoHill | arjan ! | 00:29 |
| CosmoHill | if I say no will you be offended? | 00:30 |
| Pwalpubien | yes i will | 00:30 |
| CosmoHill | okay | 00:30 |
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| CosmoHill | the answer still isn't yes | 00:30 |
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| CosmoHill | well it wasn't a bot... | 00:31 |
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| Blice | Is there code yet | 02:08 |
| Blice | ? | 02:08 |
| Blice | :( | 02:08 |
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| CosmoHill | nope | 02:11 |
| CosmoHill | probably not | 02:11 |
| CosmoHill | but it is expected in the first week or two (i think) | 02:11 |
| tripzero | so, why meego and not android? | 02:15 |
| tripzero | sorry if this is a dead argument. I'm debating with a guy that thinks that intel/nokia is burning money developing just-another-platform when android already exists to fill the same need | 02:15 |
| tripzero | ie, what need to meego fill that android does not | 02:15 |
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| lpotter | I believe moblin and maemo existed first before android... | 02:18 |
| lpotter | so you should really ask.. why android? | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | lpotter, +10 | 02:19 |
| lpotter | :) | 02:19 |
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| CosmoHill | nigth night | 02:24 |
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| jrayhawk | tripzero: Android's entire userspace is bespoke and does not use or contribute to the existing mountain of userspace effort. Its kernel modifications are also unsuitable to be contributed back to the community. | 02:46 |
| jrayhawk | It is unlikely to see much life outside of Google. | 02:48 |
| jrayhawk | Or, rather, its development effort is going to be consistently dwarfed by communities that are actually willing to cooperate with outside projects, such as almost every other distribution. | 02:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Plus the fact that Android's purpose has nothing at all to do with freedom. | 02:53 |
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| jrayhawk | I get the impression that the control exerted by Google and the walled garden environment is a side effect of market pressures rather than an anti-freedom sentiment. | 02:56 |
| jrayhawk | Which is to say Android is orthogonal to freedom, not necessarily anti. | 02:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | jrayhawk, they've caved to carrier demands. | 02:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | But that means, not only is contributing to Android essentially like contributing to a black hole as far as the rest of the Linux and open source sphere is concerned, it also means you're not exactly working to forward software freedom on mobile devices. | 02:59 |
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| aspidites | the meego site seems unchanged for days now. is the only activity happening in the mailing lists? | 09:01 |
| leinir | aspidites: they're working at several hundred percent steam at getting the code ready for shipping, i suspect that's what you're seeing the effects of | 09:02 |
| leinir | (this was also mentioned on the mailing lists) | 09:02 |
| aspidites | leinir: really didn't want to wade through the "rpm sucks, why not deb" posts to find that info, lol | 09:03 |
| aspidites | makes sense though thought maybe meego was suffering from the same "mum's the word" sickness that nokia is | 09:03 |
| leinir | aspidites: Yeah, i don't blame you ;) | 09:04 |
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| aspidites | at least in respect to maemo. pyside and qt I have been thoroghly impressed with. especially Qt's lab blogs | 09:04 |
| leinir | i've not really been that much a part of the maemo community to be able to tell :) | 09:05 |
| leinir | But yes, Qt is a different story entirely, you don't get much more open than that :) | 09:05 |
| leinir | (and the last vestiges of not-open are being fixed, of course ;) ) | 09:06 |
| pupnik_ | nokia has done good things there | 09:07 |
| aspidites | was sceptical when they aquired Qt, but they certainly proved me wrong. | 09:07 |
| aspidites | 360 degrees result from what I was expecting | 09:08 |
| leinir | Hehe, i'm an incurable optimist with things like that - i guess that's why i've a hard time seeing why people are so keen on catching the nearest waahmbulance on meego too ;) | 09:09 |
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| aspidites | haven't caught the wambulance yet. just called for a pawamedic :). really i'm happy with my device, save for the fading sound issue that nokia has failed to fix (sent in for warranty repair) | 09:11 |
| aspidites | really hoping it's a firmware issue (3 updates later) | 09:11 |
| leinir | *nods* Oh absolutely, it was not an accusation :) | 09:11 |
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| leinir | It is just something which seems prevalent in the wider community :) | 09:11 |
| tybollt | aspidites: fading sound? You mean the problem w/ sound dissapearing when making phone calls? | 09:12 |
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| aspidites | tybollt: yep. then spontaneously coming back | 09:12 |
| aspidites | tybollt: if i'm lucky | 09:12 |
| tybollt | aspidites: I've that too | 09:12 |
| tybollt | aspidites: and apparently it is fairly common | 09:12 |
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| aspidites | tybollt: i've noticed. I need to update in that thread actually. I reported that itwas solved after nokia returned it.... was true for about an hour. back to "normal". or should that be abismal? | 09:13 |
| tybollt | aspidites: it is due to the pins connecting base with earpiece in the slider not being properly connected (mechanical problem). | 09:13 |
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| aspidites | the good news is of the 2500 minutes I have on my rate plan, I only use about 400 | 09:13 |
| aspidites | tybollt: thats what I thought. so why didn't nokia fix it? (not that you work for them) | 09:14 |
| tybollt | aspidites: well... did you try pressing the slider piece against the base a bit? That works every time for me. | 09:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia Care . . . doesn't. | 09:14 |
| tybollt | aspidites: right on, that is why my phone is not going into the shop. See my nokia repair center forces you to sign an agreement upon handing in the phone where you promise to pay a lot of money to them if no fault was found on the phone | 09:15 |
| tybollt | GeneralAntilles++ | 09:16 |
| tybollt | GeneralAntilles: although, they care up until they have your money, that's when they stop =) | 09:16 |
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| aspidites | they had my phone for 5 days before they decided to do anything with it. numerous calls, escalations, etc. finally 3 people called me back and explained that my address wasn't sent in with my phone :|. Then they explained there wasw a "software defect". | 09:18 |
| aspidites | translation - they reflashed my phone, threw it in a USPS priority mail envelope and sent it back to me | 09:18 |
| aspidites | if I wanted to lose data I could have flashed it myself. thank god for rsync | 09:19 |
| pupnik_ | GeneralAntilles: what is going to be "upstream" distro to meego? | 09:19 |
| aspidites | or ala, or vishnu, or pope, or whoever you care to worship. self for you narcisists :) | 09:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik_, MeeGo. | 09:19 |
| aspidites | GeneralAntilles: so rpm packaging system, but all repos are meego? no fedora, suse, etc base, right? | 09:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | As far as I'm aware. | 09:20 |
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| pupnik_ | seems like a recipe for no community ports | 09:21 |
| * GeneralAntilles shrugs. | 09:21 | |
| GeneralAntilles | A topic for discussion by better minds than mine. | 09:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | There seem to be plenty of good arguments on both sides. | 09:21 |
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| pupnik_ | and here we were making difficult progress to "just build the .deb" | 09:23 |
| timeless_mbp2 | aspidites: you realize that 360degrees from a point is that very same point, right? | 09:23 |
| timeless_mbp2 | tybollt: the no fault penalty sounds like what Welho my finnish cable provider forces me to do | 09:24 |
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| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: :-/ | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp2 | i'm assuming it's standard finnish business practices | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp2 | "we don't want to be bothered by you, so we'll discourage any interaction" | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp2 | "don't worry, the token fee we list doesn't actually cover our expenses" | 09:26 |
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| alden | anyone participating in the intel atom developer program? | 12:34 |
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| * alden looking to contribute somehow.. would be nice to work with/under someone | 12:34 | |
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| slaine | good question alden, I wondered what was happening with that once MeeGo was announced | 12:36 |
| slaine | ] | 12:36 |
| alden | well they announced the second round challenge after the merger | 12:37 |
| slaine | ah, haven't seen that | 12:38 |
| alden | http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/article/million-dollar-development-fund | 12:40 |
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| AleDream | Ciao a tutti :))) | 12:48 |
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| juergbi | arjan: fyi, the stat refresh every 5 minutes has been removed from tracker master | 12:58 |
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| koupsa | hello all | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | lo | 13:06 |
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| th0br0 | hello everyone | 15:06 |
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| Stskeeps | morning th0br0 | 15:08 |
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| th0br0 | i guess there hasn't been any news in the past say 4 days, Stskeeps? | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | not afaik | 15:10 |
| th0br0 | k :) | 15:10 |
| th0br0 | well, the channel was pretty quiet after all | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | worrying that when sources do come, people have left the building | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:11 |
| th0br0 | it's a shame though, i hope we'll get some more life in here once we get a new announcement | 15:11 |
| th0br0 | haha, yeah, i'm worrying about that, too | 15:11 |
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| Stskeeps | some marketing person can probably write a paper on how not to launch a open source project based on this ;) | 15:11 |
| th0br0 | well, it's the same as with symbian, isn't it? | 15:12 |
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| th0br0 | i mean, you can't compile symbian yet and so it's pretty much similar to the code dumps google's been doing everywhere. | 15:13 |
| zaheerm | so the marketing announcement was probably made too early...as people just see some nice press and no substance behind it | 15:13 |
| th0br0 | no, it was for that mobile world ocngress | 15:13 |
| zaheerm | th0br0, well at least with symbian the code is there | 15:13 |
| th0br0 | true zaheerm | 15:13 |
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| zaheerm | the fact it only compiles with some random compiler is besides the point | 15:13 |
| zaheerm | people can actually fix the compile errors with gcc | 15:14 |
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| zaheerm | th0br0, so yes announcing it at mwc seems premature | 15:14 |
| zaheerm | th0br0, however supposedly it got them a whole load of people willing to commit their app dev resources to write stuff for meego... | 15:15 |
| tybollt | th0br0: "a new announcement" LOL what do you mean by that? | 15:15 |
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| th0br0 | tybollt: i was referring to the code here. | 15:15 |
| tybollt | ;) | 15:16 |
| zaheerm | tybollt, the announcement, our code is now open and developed openly at "blahblahblah git repos" | 15:16 |
| th0br0 | yeah | 15:16 |
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| X-Fade | Announcement was not for developers, but policy makers in companies and investors. | 15:16 |
| tybollt | I see | 15:17 |
| th0br0 | But still... ;) | 15:17 |
| X-Fade | At least that is what it looks like. | 15:17 |
| tybollt | so we are waiting for a Balmeresque gypsying around a stage yelling DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS, then? :) | 15:17 |
| th0br0 | I guess so. | 15:17 |
| th0br0 | But please, he *must* shout "I LOVE THIS COMPANY!" | 15:18 |
| zaheerm | yah well mwc is meant only for policy makers and investors | 15:18 |
| zaheerm | the show itself was pretty shitty | 15:18 |
| leinir | X-Fade: Yeah - the lack of any technical details definitely hinted at that :) | 15:19 |
| zaheerm | the only saving grace for my money spent on flight/hotel and taking time off work was the free nexus one at the android developer lab session :) | 15:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | marketing announcement was poorly prepared first and foremost | 15:23 |
| th0br0 | :P zaheerm | 15:24 |
| slaine | Given the disappearance of lots of the moblin git projects, I'm assuming we'll get something shortly. | 15:24 |
| zaheerm | th0br0, it still compares very badly to my n900... | 15:24 |
| th0br0 | no doubt. well, it's got no keyboard ... | 15:24 |
| th0br0 | but the cpu is pretty nice | 15:24 |
| slaine | I found it snappy to use but didn't much like the software | 15:25 |
| th0br0 | but then again, it's got no separate dsp i guess. | 15:25 |
| th0br0 | android is nice but too ... proprietary imho | 15:25 |
| tybollt | DocScrutinizer: This is not the first time a company (or many) massively underestimate the power of the nerds. | 15:25 |
| zaheerm | yes the onscreen keyboard is crap | 15:26 |
| zaheerm | the apps on market aren't all that... | 15:26 |
| zaheerm | and im integration on n900 is so much better | 15:27 |
| zaheerm | and surprisingly i don't seem to get notified for my new gmail emaisl on my nexus one, once the display is off...that seems like a really bad bug | 15:27 |
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| th0br0 | ^^ | 15:29 |
| th0br0 | well, if google were actually working *with* the community (e.g. maemo / meego) and not separately, then android would be ahuge success community-wise | 15:29 |
| zaheerm | also..openvpn needs you to root the android | 15:30 |
| zaheerm | the multimedia is shit because they chose some proprietary media framework opencore which was inside packetvideo and opened it | 15:30 |
| zaheerm | so absolutely no community dev there | 15:30 |
| th0br0 | yeah | 15:31 |
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| brukutu | where can i download meego? | 16:00 |
| slaine | brukutu: see the topic, read the faq | 16:00 |
| brukutu | was abt too | 16:00 |
| brukutu | slaine, what is the best remix / moblin you think to run with ati gfx card? | 16:01 |
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| slaine | brukutu: I couldn't really say to be honest | 16:02 |
| slaine | I've only ever used the Moblin distro on a Dell Mini 9 | 16:02 |
| slaine | I played with the Fedora spin a while back, but didn't use it in earnest | 16:03 |
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| slaine | I've heard lots of good things about the OpenSuse moblin release | 16:03 |
| brukutu | slaine, you seem clued up with moblin...i install moblin on fedora...but i cant make a gtalk account...option not there...can do myspace flikker and so on....how do i get gtalk and facebook to show up? | 16:03 |
| slaine | I've heard mixed reviews of the Ubuntu Moblin remix | 16:03 |
| slaine | as mentioned on the moblin channel by ebassi, moblin proper doesn't support facebook. The OpenSuse release does though | 16:04 |
| slaine | I'd suggest trying it out | 16:04 |
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| brukutu | thanks slaine | 16:05 |
| slaine | They've patched the packages etc. where as the Fedora spin is a repackage of the moblin release with no patches | 16:05 |
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| VLJ | hi | 16:24 |
| VLJ | repo.moblin.org/moblin/developpement is no more ? | 16:24 |
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| firegnu | hi guys, Does meego means moblin is over? | 17:30 |
| robsta | firegnu: yes and no | 17:31 |
| firegnu | why? | 17:31 |
| robsta | it means moblin is bigger under a new name | 17:31 |
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| firegnu | when does meego release? | 17:33 |
| zaheerm | q2/2010 i think... | 17:33 |
| firegnu | 2012? lol.... | 17:34 |
| w00t | soon, I'm fairly sure | 17:35 |
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| slaine | any of the above | 17:36 |
| slaine | :) | 17:36 |
| firegnu | cool | 17:38 |
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| gouverneur | firegnu: in about 2 weeks there might be a first dev be released | 17:43 |
| firegnu | ok. i will wait... | 17:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ola w00t | 17:51 |
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| w00t | DocScrutinizer: o/ | 18:04 |
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| pawbie | I'm confused. What's the difference between #moblin and #meego ? | 18:25 |
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| slaine | different people | 18:27 |
| * slaine shrugs | 18:27 | |
| w00t | meego is the result of the merge between moblin and maemo, #meego is the IRC channel for that child | 18:27 |
| w00t | #moblin is the channel for .moblin | 18:27 |
| * w00t glares at that errant dot | 18:28 | |
| pawbie | So if I'm using moblin 2.1 and want to continue using it and try to develop for future versions... I should be in #meego or #moblin? | 18:28 |
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| slaine | meego for future versions, i.e. what would have been moblin 2.2 | 18:28 |
| pawbie | And there's no meego alpha/beta image, just moblin 2.1? | 18:29 |
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| slaine | correct | 18:29 |
| slaine | and maemo5 | 18:30 |
| pawbie | Ah, thanks. The moblin documentation mentioned a possible move to dpkg. Will MeeGo use dpkg or rpm? | 18:30 |
| slaine | rpm | 18:30 |
| slaine | see the faq | 18:30 |
| slaine | http://meego.com/about/faq | 18:31 |
| pawbie | Oh. Duh, right infront of me. | 18:31 |
| pawbie | Ya. I've read it twice and somehow missed that. ;) | 18:31 |
| pawbie | I think the Clutter and GTK+ thing was jumping out at me too much. | 18:31 |
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| pawbie | Thanks a ton for answering those questions. One last one, if you can answer it - I've used acpi events on my Lenovo T61 with success. When I add similar event and actions to /etc/acpi on moblin 2.1 and test with 'acpid -l -f', my button event and action work 100% | 18:35 |
| pawbie | When I reboot and acpid runs normally, the event doesn't work at all. Any tips? | 18:35 |
| robsta | pawbie: which button? | 18:36 |
| robsta | all of them? | 18:36 |
| pawbie | Oh. I'm trying to get the Fn+F7 or the Touchpad button on the asus eee 1005HA to work. | 18:37 |
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| pawbie | acpi_listen reports the button as hotkey ATKD. The event is hotkey.* | 18:38 |
| pawbie | The action I want is synclient touchpadoff=1 | 18:38 |
| robsta | i don't know, sorry | 18:38 |
| pawbie | Oh. Thanks, though. I just find it really weird that it works when launching acpid from a terminal with the debug and log options, but acpid started normally seems to ignore it. | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pawbie: are you sure it's acpid that fails, rather than maybe synclient which might not like the environment of the deamon case? | 18:43 |
| pawbie | I was hoping you could tell me. ;) | 18:43 |
| pawbie | I assumed it would work - works on my debian machine, but debian != moblin ;) I tried using suid bit, but it still didn't work. I've also tried adding "touch /tmp/thescriptran' to the actoin script. Neither had any effect. | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | substitute synclient with a simple command like e.g eject, or suspend, or dunno what | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah yeah, touch a good idea | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if that didn't fire, I guess it's a bug in acpid then | 18:45 |
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| pawbie | I'm not sure. I'm definitely no acpid expert - I just wanted to hack together a quick solution to my gorilla paws rubbing against the touchpad when I try to type..... | 18:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eew i know that. alas here synclient ceased to work completely | 18:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | my inconvenient solution for now is to disable tap on touchpad, so I use the hw-buttons only | 18:52 |
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| pawbie | I really miss alt+f2 | 18:54 |
| tripzero | oh noes... where did it go? | 18:54 |
| pawbie | Doesn't work in moblin 2.1 :P | 18:54 |
| tripzero | boo :( | 18:55 |
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| Jaffa | Af'noon all | 19:22 |
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| megabast | someone could said me why I get "No such signal" with QObject::connect(button, SIGNAL(clicked(int)), this, SLOT(function(int))); | 21:14 |
| megabast | we can't overwrite on connect SIGNAL ? | 21:14 |
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| megabast | private slots: | 21:16 |
| megabast | void function(int); | 21:16 |
| tripzero | megabast, check the signal signature | 21:16 |
| tripzero | also, there is #qt for qt specific issues | 21:16 |
| megabast | ok | 21:17 |
| pawbie | DocScrutinizer: I figured out the acpi touchpad thing. You were right - the context of synclient wasn't correct. Both $DISPLAY and $XAUTHORITY had to exist and be accurate for synclient to work when called from acpid. | 21:19 |
| thiago_home | megabast: you forgot Q_OBJECT in your class, most likely | 21:21 |
| thiago_home | megabast: what exactly did the warning say? | 21:21 |
| megabast | thiago I put Q_Object Macro | 21:22 |
| megabast | No such signal QPushButton::clicked(int) | 21:23 |
| thiago_home | we're helping you in #qt, let's continue there | 21:24 |
| megabast | yes ;) | 21:25 |
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| thiago_home | arjan: ping | 22:18 |
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| * w00t wanders in | 22:21 | |
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| w00t | evening all | 22:21 |
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| Blice | Any code yet? | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | nop | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:40 |
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| Blice | lame | 22:40 |
| arachnist | Blice: #include <stdio.h> | 22:40 |
| Blice | arachnist: nice distro, bro | 22:41 |
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| thiago_home | there's Qt though | 22:49 |
| thiago_home | and the middleware that is common between Maemo and Moblin anyway | 22:50 |
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| Stskeeps | evening DawnFoster :) | 22:51 |
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| DawnFoster | hi stskeeps | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | how's your first week on MeeGo coming along? | 22:54 |
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| RST38h | Moo, meegopeoples | 22:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Surely you means MeeGos? :P | 22:59 |
| wazd | RST38h: moo | 22:59 |
| RST38h | Mi-Gos, yes | 22:59 |
| RST38h | wazd: http://www.encspb.ru/image.php?file=big%2f2803986828.jpg | 23:00 |
| wazd | RST38h: :) | 23:00 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: mostly spending time getting set up at intel :) Hoping to actually get started on more real work soon. | 23:02 |
| RST38h | DawnFoster: which campus? | 23:03 |
| * w00t waves at DawnFoster | 23:04 | |
| DawnFoster | RST38h: I'm in Jones Farm in Hillsboro, OR | 23:04 |
| DawnFoster | hi w00t | 23:04 |
| RST38h | DawnFoster: Ah, the mother ship | 23:04 |
| w00t | nice to see you around :) | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: think we all are, this set up process of the project with all the silence is a bit awkward :) | 23:05 |
| DawnFoster | RST38h: JF is critical mass for the open source work at intel. | 23:05 |
| RST38h | wazd: "...anyone who ever watched anime knows what happens next..." | 23:06 |
| Jaffa | Ev'ning all. | 23:06 |
| wazd | Jaffa: heya | 23:06 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, let's not share it here :D | 23:06 |
| DawnFoster | Stskeeps: I'm hoping to help with some of the communication. People are so busy trying to get things pulled together, but haven't really had time to talk about it. | 23:07 |
| * RST38h goes to US tomorrow, whoever wants to connect let me know | 23:07 | |
| wazd | RST38h: any sign of life activity from Roman btw? :( | 23:07 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: yeah, - this project will be an interesting challenge for sure :) | 23:07 |
| Jaffa | DawnFoster: It's important that people doing that work realis that it taking an extra week but having been open/communicating about it would probably be better than meeting a deadline which had never been communicated externally anyway. | 23:07 |
| RST38h | wazd: he is lively enough as far as I can tell | 23:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: ah, ok | 23:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, +1 | 23:10 |
| RST38h | wazd: not instantly responsive but ok | 23:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lot of people trying to operate in a vacuum out here, and I expect we're bleeding away enthusiasm in the mean time. | 23:10 |
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| DawnFoster | GeneralAntilles: I agree that we don't want to lose the momentum. | 23:11 |
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| * Jaffa knows of several big, long-time Maemo supporters who were initially enthusiastic about being involved in building another community from the ground-up, just like the 770 days; but with open development processes around the product, as well as the community. But there's lots of external effort trying to be recognised and comparatively lots of silence from anyone officially involved in the project. | 23:12 | |
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| RST38h | Getting overly enthusiastic leads to burnout | 23:13 |
| DawnFoster | Jaffa: I'll see if I can kickstart some additional communication | 23:13 |
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| RST38h | The next complaint is gonna be "Nokia and Intel do not listen to community" BTW, it always goes like this | 23:14 |
| thiago_home | listening != accepting everything that was said | 23:15 |
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| thiago_home | though I'm sure you know | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | thiago_home, no, really? :) | 23:15 |
| RST38h | thiago: but there is a lot of people who do not understand this | 23:15 |
| thiago_home | yes | 23:15 |
| thiago_home | but I'm sure you guys here, right now, do | 23:15 |
| RST38h | + Nokia often cultivates this feeling by not doing the obvious things, driving users mad (literally) | 23:16 |
| RST38h | Would be interesting to see if Intel does the same =) | 23:16 |
| * thiago_home is hoping that Intel will teach Nokia to be an even better Open Source citizen | 23:17 | |
| thiago_home | and this includes us at Qt too | 23:17 |
| RST38h | umgh...eek | 23:17 |
| RST38h | but yes, lots of possibilities for things to go in either direction | 23:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, if you'll manage to meet him in US - say hai from me :) | 23:18 |
| pawbie | Do any of you guys follow the recent Android woes? | 23:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: I will discuss whatever matters are pending and probably just bring the money with me | 23:18 |
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| wazd | RST38h: oh, please don't | 23:19 |
| wazd | RST38h: I don't need them anymore | 23:19 |
| RST38h | pawbie: What? Has it finally reached the point of unmanagibility? | 23:19 |
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| wazd | pawbie: Jobsie rage you mean? | 23:19 |
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| pawbie | Just the recent semi-backlash from developers about the magnitude of available platforms, the silly battles and finger pointing at Google for not making their apps open, etc. | 23:20 |
| pawbie | Cyanogen vs Google, etc. | 23:20 |
| RST38h | ah | 23:20 |
| pawbie | Not that any of this applies immediately, but I think it might help to retrospect some of it for MeeGo. | 23:21 |
| RST38h | So, everyone is ok with their native code loophole as it is? | 23:21 |
| pawbie | I'm not sure what you mean? | 23:22 |
| RST38h | pawbie: Android is a sandboxed solution | 23:23 |
| pawbie | Right. Through Dalvik. | 23:23 |
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| RST38h | pawbie: can't do much outside of the sandbox | 23:23 |
| RST38h | pawbie: MeeGo is a proper platform that runs native apps | 23:23 |
| pawbie | You can with the NDK. But you lose any sanity in portability. | 23:23 |
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| RST38h | pawbie: I am sure I do not ;) | 23:23 |
| pawbie | If you're developing under Androids NDK in native C, you do ;) | 23:24 |
| RST38h | pawbie: Unlike Dalviked Java, native C is pretty portable | 23:24 |
| RST38h | you can run it pretty much everywhere | 23:24 |
| pawbie | Ya. What about your commercial developers, if there is an interest? | 23:25 |
| pawbie | Is it going to be up to them to port their projects to every imaginable platform MeeGo will service? | 23:25 |
| RST38h | Dunno, I doubt commercial developers care that much what language it is | 23:25 |
| RST38h | pawbie: What is the problem with recompiling stuff for 2-3 platforms? | 23:25 |
| thiago_home | pawbie: does the NDK give access to the framebuffer already? | 23:25 |
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| pawbie | thiago_home: As far as I can tell, if you can do it with the kernel and a handful of libraries, you can do it with the NDK. | 23:26 |
| thiago_home | pawbie: I mean: is there public, maintained, documented API for it? | 23:26 |
| thiago_home | of course you can use hacks | 23:26 |
| pawbie | RST38h: Pause for a second. I'm not here to debate Managed Code vs The Joys of Linux. I just wanted to bring up some of the panic in the Android community. | 23:26 |
| pawbie | thiago_home: There is some documentation.. I'm not going to say it's good, but it's enough to get a project ported if you're determined. | 23:27 |
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| pawbie | Anyway, so the whole reason I brought up Android was to retrospect two of the concerns that seemed to apply to the conversation you guys were having: Developers, enthusiasm, public opinion. | 23:28 |
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| thiago_home | the reason I'm asking is quite simple: unless they give native (C or other language that doesn't require Dalvik) API for the common functionality, the NDK is not useful for app development | 23:28 |
| RST38h | pawbie: Well, they had to make all the same mistakes everyone had done before them ;) | 23:28 |
| thiago_home | whereas, on the other side, MeeGo wants to do everything in native | 23:28 |
| pawbie | thiago_home: At this point, with the multitude of Android devices and no clear way to manage platforms, the NDK is useless. :( | 23:29 |
| RST38h | thiago: which, given limted resources, is pretty logical | 23:29 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: it's also differentiation | 23:29 |
| RST38h | pawbie: ah come one, most of these devices are arm | 23:29 |
| RST38h | thiago: you can differentiate in java as well | 23:29 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: want raw, native speed? Choose MeeGo. | 23:29 |
| thiago_home | native Java apps? | 23:29 |
| RST38h | thiago: In most cases you do not want raw speed | 23:30 |
| thiago_home | true | 23:30 |
| pawbie | RST38h: They are - but what about the rest of the hardware? Simple example - some devices feature trackballs, some feature D-pad buttons. Imagine the hair pulling initial developers encountered when the d-pads became more popular... | 23:30 |
| thiago_home | but it happens often enough that there's a business case for it | 23:30 |
| RST38h | thiago: the problem, of course, that those few cases where you want raw speed become bottlenecks for vm solutions | 23:30 |
| thiago_home | pawbie: technically, it's the same problem that Symbian had | 23:31 |
| RST38h | pawbie: Sorry man, Symbian solved this. Natively. Years ago. | 23:31 |
| pawbie | And technically, Android's Java isn't native and isn't even performance enhanced by the chipset. Dalvik is it's own beast, for all intents and purposes. :( | 23:31 |
| thiago_home | pawbie: only Symbian wasn't open and made it all worse by not even trying to keep everything compatible | 23:31 |
| RST38h | pawbie: Just because your devices have slightly different controls, you do not need vm | 23:31 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: Symbian didn't fully solve it. You still have one SDK per platform and variant. | 23:31 |
| RST38h | thiago: True | 23:31 |
| RST38h | thiago: I.e. it hit that "fragmentaton" thing years before Android :) | 23:32 |
| thiago_home | Symbian is only getting one unified API now, with Qt. | 23:32 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 23:32 |
| pawbie | RST38h: Perfect example of fragmentation. | 23:32 |
| RST38h | thiago: Oh, don't you hope that Qt will make any difference | 23:32 |
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| RST38h | thiago; Symbian is way more than UI. But finally replacing Eikon, Avkon, Uikon, and all the other stupid -kons with a decent API is nice | 23:33 |
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| thiago_home | anyway, MeeGo will have an even wider device diversity | 23:35 |
| thiago_home | both Symbian and Android are (currently) sticking to mobile phones | 23:35 |
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| pawbie | Not entirely. | 23:35 |
| thiago_home | MeeGo is born with more than that | 23:35 |
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| RST38h | I just hope you are designing UI with respect to screen scalability... | 23:35 |
| pawbie | There's a company using Android for the OS on VOIP desktop phones. | 23:35 |
| pawbie | Another company using Android as a console video gaming platform... | 23:35 |
| thiago_home | released devices? how big a volume? | 23:36 |
| pawbie | Not that substantial - but it could definitely be a viable thing some day. | 23:36 |
| thiago_home | and Google has said they only will care about the mobile phone version. | 23:36 |
| thiago_home | and, yes, it could, but we want MeeGo to take over that market | 23:36 |
| pawbie | Well, Android isn't Google. | 23:36 |
| thiago_home | it isn't, but it's very much associated with it | 23:37 |
| thiago_home | and tightly controlled too | 23:37 |
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| pawbie | Anyway... Huge fan of Moblin. I can't wait to see MeeGo. | 23:38 |
| pawbie | I just wanted to bring up the Android nonsensery to see if it could improve MeeGo. | 23:38 |
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