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| sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 | 00:24 |
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| sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 | 00:29 |
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| sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 | 00:31 |
| sarah93 | wow you should check this http://bit.ly/bFi9I4 | 00:31 |
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| MiXu- | wow! | 01:11 |
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| ShadowJK | hm... testing btrfs on sd.. | 02:03 |
| CosmoHill | doesn't that have a SSD mode? | 02:11 |
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| ShadowJK | yes | 02:16 |
| ShadowJK | I mounted it with -o ssd_spread | 02:16 |
| ShadowJK | the wiki said this is better for less expensive ssd.. | 02:16 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm copying /var/spool/squid to it, it's a pretty good filesystem-on-flash torture test I've discovered | 02:17 |
| ShadowJK | ahh | 02:17 |
| ShadowJK | dmesg is full of kernel screaming | 02:17 |
| ShadowJK | hung task detection | 02:18 |
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| * ShadowJK ^C's the copy | 02:18 | |
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| ShadowJK | So, write speed is about 50 kilobytes/sec for minutes at a time, occasionally shooting up to 5 megabytes/sec for 10-20 secs | 02:19 |
| CosmoHill | hmm | 02:20 |
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| arachnist | sounds like kernel cache/buffering issue | 02:29 |
| ShadowJK | What kind? | 02:29 |
| ShadowJK | Any hints on how to solve it? | 02:29 |
| arachnist | low on ram? | 02:29 |
| arachnist | and sd cards are not a real ssd, looking from the pc side | 02:29 |
| ShadowJK | sure | 02:29 |
| ShadowJK | But I'm looking at it from the meego side ;-) | 02:30 |
| arachnist | their internal controller messes everything up | 02:30 |
| arachnist | erm | 02:30 |
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| ShadowJK | Except maybe on high end netbooks there wont be ssd | 02:30 |
| arachnist | well | 02:31 |
| ShadowJK | harddrives on netbooks probably, which is fine, but when you go smaller than that it's a tiny nand and a big mmc :) | 02:31 |
| arachnist | my laptop has a 64GB ssd | 02:31 |
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| arachnist | but it's far from low-end | 02:31 |
| CosmoHill | damn you | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | high end in the sense that the SSDs cost more than the netbook? :P | 02:32 |
| ShadowJK | certainly worth it though... but they don't fit in small devices | 02:32 |
| arjan | if you really have a low low end ssd | 02:32 |
| arjan | turn on btrfs compression mode | 02:33 |
| arjan | that way it does data compression -> saves bandwidth | 02:33 |
| trip0 | you probably will want to balance the drive after turning on compression | 02:33 |
| ShadowJK | arjan, using a microSD actually | 02:33 |
| arachnist | funny thing: my laptop is 13". back when i bought it, it was considered just a normal laptop, just a bit small | 02:33 |
| arachnist | nowadays, people tend to call 13" laptops "netbooks" | 02:33 |
| arjan | ShadowJK: well "any slow in bandwidth storage" :) | 02:33 |
| arjan | arachnist: only if they also have a shitty touchpad and keyboard ;) | 02:34 |
| ShadowJK | I mounted with -o noatime,ssd_spread,compress | 02:34 |
| arachnist | arjan: it has a great keyboard, great trackpoint and a little bit small touchpad | 02:34 |
| arachnist | and yes, it's a thinkpad | 02:34 |
| ShadowJK | Running a sanity test now... | 02:34 |
| ShadowJK | 18 megabyte/s sequential read, seq write varies between 4 and 8 | 02:35 |
| arachnist | seems typical for a sd card | 02:35 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 02:35 |
| arachnist | tried comparing it to ext2/journal-less ext4 or vfat? | 02:35 |
| ShadowJK | ext3 is on my list of things to try | 02:36 |
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| ShadowJK | Oh this card's write speed... Kingston is wonderful.. | 02:40 |
| ShadowJK | it has an area of 600k write speed | 02:40 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 02:46 |
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| ShadowJK | oh, some of the btrfs processes use alot of PCU | 03:59 |
| ShadowJK | CPU* | 03:59 |
| ShadowJK | When write speed is at 50kbyte/s SYS cpu time is at 70% | 04:00 |
| ShadowJK | btrfs-delalloc- | 04:00 |
| ShadowJK | iowait is "only" 25% in that case :D | 04:01 |
| ShadowJK | 100kb/sec with 99% iowait too though.. | 04:01 |
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| ShadowJK | Well, rsync to nilfs2 took 16 minutes, rsync to btrfs on same device took 58 minutes :-) | 05:12 |
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| itdocks | i need to play with btrfs | 05:35 |
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| ShadowJK | 2.7 gigs of data | 05:37 |
| itdocks | i want to muck with it on my fileserver hehe, just worried about bugs that'd cause kernel panics | 05:38 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, a few page allocation failures from kernel.. | 05:47 |
| ShadowJK | order 4... starts at asm_do_IRQ :D | 05:47 |
| ShadowJK | bluez though, not btrfs | 05:48 |
| ShadowJK | 216megs (out of 512) free, but no order 4 pages :/ | 05:49 |
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| ShadowJK | heh, running ext2 test now. It started out really fast, but it's getting slower and slower and slooower... | 06:33 |
| * ShadowJK goes sleep | 06:33 | |
| itdocks | :P | 06:33 |
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| ShadowJK | it's not the bandwidth, it's the IOPS :) | 06:34 |
| itdocks | always! | 06:34 |
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| jebba | i got moblin going under fedora arm 12, but it's an ancient version of moblin... | 09:02 |
| Stskeeps | cool, how? | 09:08 |
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| jebba | just installed "regular" fedora 12 arm and yum installed various moblin* packages. The interface is very much for a desktop though (e.g. small "X" in upper right corner to close windows etc). Again, this is a much older version. I have mock going now and have been able to run one package thru it so far. | 09:40 |
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| jebba | "ARM port is currently being maintained in the OBS project devel:arch:arm. " per http://wiki.meego.com/ARM_Support But I don't see that anywhere in OBS https://build.opensuse.org/project/list_public | 10:42 |
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| th0br0 | hello everyone. | 10:45 |
| th0br0 | jebba: afaik that's still password-protected. | 10:45 |
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| Stskeeps | jebba: moblin obs, not novell obs :) | 11:02 |
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| th0br0 | heya Stskeeps | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | morning th0br0 | 11:14 |
| Blice | People waking up? | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. slowly | 11:18 |
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| Stskeeps | morn david | 11:19 |
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| th0br0 | Stskeeps: lbt we should really try to find some date for the first packaging meeting soon... or should we wait until the source release for that? | 11:35 |
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| Stskeeps | right - i'm available most of the week next week but i think a bootstrap meeting could be good to shape up the page, make it into an actual proposal and submit to TSG | 11:47 |
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| th0br0 | likely so Stskeeps | 11:53 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm pondering to start a thread so we can get some procedures for WG creation going | 11:54 |
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| wazd_e63 | Hello all | 12:12 |
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| Stskeeps | morning wazd, qgil | 12:14 |
| qgilN900 | hi there | 12:14 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: heya | 12:14 |
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| wazd_e63 | stskeeps: sorry for marina mod delay, have some personal problems :( | 12:16 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd_e63: it's fine, my world is up and down with the whole meego thing anyway :) | 12:17 |
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| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: heh) | 12:17 |
| qgilN900 | it was interesting to see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3TdoY868kc | 12:17 |
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| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: my sister adored my UI concept btw :) And if she says "fine" then it's genius :D | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | the platform wars will be won in the reference implementations.. i mean, if meego can end up being the typical system board vendors put out and let people build on, we have a winner : | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | currently this is minimal linux systems or android | 12:19 |
| qgilN900 | probably, yes | 12:20 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: android has some serious issues with all that custom frontends | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_e63: yeah, differentiation can sometimes harm too | 12:21 |
| qgilN900 | if you are targetting an Intel Atom chipset the story becomes quite clear now: pick the Qt baseline and you can start already now | 12:21 |
| qgilN900 | looking forward to see good support from other chipset vendors | 12:21 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: you can expect anything if someone says "android" | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | having dual platform also makes it much easier for people to prototype | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | develop most of your system for a atom cpu, transfer it to your resulting ARM device | 12:22 |
| qgilN900 | there the Qt + Web Runtime machinery is promising | 12:22 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: I think intel will have serious problems with atom in future because of CULV platform | 12:23 |
| qgilN900 | The Qt team is used to support different platforms and still offer a single API | 12:23 |
| RST38h | A lot of people say that Android backend is *not* a real Linux | 12:23 |
| Amby | Stskeeps: yes, I would prefer a strong reference UI with enough customization built in that vendors reuse it instead of building their own | 12:23 |
| qgilN900 | not that their work is easy but they are used to it :) | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder why noone is asking if Booklet is getting MeeGo | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:23 |
| RST38h | qgil: Yes, Symbian and Maemo Qt APIs appear to be different. Any news on that? | 12:23 |
| qgilN900 | and web runtime sits on top of web technologies also designed to be crossplatform since the beginning | 12:23 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Sorry, you cannot just develop on Atom and transfer to ARM | 12:24 |
| Amby | Stskeeps: I've asked it! I want to buy :) Or I want to buy a Nokia Tablet 3G w MeeGo. | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: worked in Mer. | 12:24 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: First thing that will kill you is going to be data alignment | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: s/Atom/X86 | 12:24 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Second thing will be the performance tuning | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | of course | 12:24 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: booklet is kinda tricky thing) | 12:24 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Atom, X86, it does not matter | 12:24 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: long battery life but no serious gpu | 12:25 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: The architecture is different enough to require different optimizations and programming guidelines | 12:25 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: aluminium body but terrible plastic cover | 12:25 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I can easily do stuff like char *P; int N=*(int *)P; on x86 | 12:26 |
| RST38h | On ARM...ewwww.. | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i'm not even going to discuss that issue as you'd win in argument based on merit alone | 12:26 |
| qgilN900 | rst38h a lot of the trick is around Qt iterations | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:26 |
| qgilN900 | 4.6 is a different game than 4.5 when it comes to Symbian and Maemo support | 12:27 |
| qgilN900 | 4.7 is in its way, then 4.8.... | 12:27 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Anyways, not expecting any particular benefits from debugging on x86 (after doing it for years though :)) | 12:30 |
| RST38h | qgil: You mean, DUI/Orbit will completley change from 4.6 to 4.7? | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yeah - i guess i'm blessed by not having to do char *P; int N=*(int *)P; on a regular basis | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | and if i had to do those things, i would be using u_intX_t :P | 12:32 |
| qgilN900 | i talk about Qt itself, Orbit dui are "candidates for inclusion" from a qt pov | 12:32 |
| wazd_e63 | Stskeeps: what do you mean "not having to do"? Every man should do it once a day :D | 12:36 |
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| * Stskeeps is really looking forward to going back to his apartment | 12:38 | |
| Stskeeps | the work getting all the floors polished is finally done and now we have to move all the furniture back | 12:39 |
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| crysaz | Stskeeps: good post on meego-dev list. i do agree that as a newcomer i don't have a clue where to start from. | 12:59 |
| crysaz | maybe i'll just continue with qt basics in maemo environment for now | 13:01 |
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| Stskeeps | crysaz: yeah, i'm reading up on .spec, rpm and bootstrapping in rpm | 13:06 |
| RST38h | qgil: Ah, interesting, so there is Qt and there are DUI/Orbit, one of which (the better one) will presumably go into Qt 4.7 proper? | 13:07 |
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| thiago_home | not 4.7 | 13:12 |
| thiago_home | 4.8 or later | 13:13 |
| thiago_home | or never. Not decided. | 13:13 |
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| lbt | th0br0: Stskeeps agree. It would be good to do some brainstorming of issues and scope | 13:17 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: for bootstrapping take a look at the OBS 'build' script too | 13:20 |
| th0br0 | yeah | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | wazd_e63: hah, cool with marina theme - it shows bubbles when closing a window in switcher | 13:22 |
| * lbt wonders who's around from the pkging group | 13:23 | |
| Stskeeps | the repo or the debian one? | 13:23 |
| lbt | repo :) | 13:24 |
| lbt | X-Fade: jeremiah Clay are online | 13:24 |
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| lbt | the meeting : http://meego.mkdir.name/logs/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-02-24-20.04.html | 13:26 |
| lbt | kinda re-scoped the repo-WG in my mind | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | i will need to read that through.. | 13:27 |
| lbt | of course I do see everything as an OBS shaped nail at the moment | 13:27 |
| lbt | MeeGo is merely something for OBS to build ;) | 13:27 |
| lbt | and the repos are what OBS makes | 13:28 |
| * RST38h is mostly getting garbage when closing windows in switcher | 13:28 | |
| lbt | and QA is how you get it through OBS | 13:28 |
| lbt | and dev community is about how devs use OBS... | 13:28 |
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| jebba | http://blog.chris.tylers.info/index.php?/archives/227-Mock-config-for-ARM-building.html | 13:34 |
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| cenebris | Any news when first meego smartphones will be available? :) | 13:37 |
| thiago_home | no news | 13:38 |
| thiago_home | it will be the Harmattan device, but we can't tell you the date :-) | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | my bet is on 2012, right after the world ends ;p | 13:38 |
| thiago_home | it didn't end, didn't you see the movie? | 13:39 |
| Stskeeps | yes and regretted it very soon afterwards | 13:39 |
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| cenebris | :D | 13:43 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Did they at least get a chance to violently destroy the White House again? | 13:43 |
| cenebris | I hope it will be before world ends :D | 13:43 |
| cenebris | do you think it is possible there will be Nokia smartphone with Meego in iPhone formfactor? | 13:44 |
| RST38h | Yes! | 13:44 |
| * RST38h shakes his 8-ball | 13:44 | |
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| thiago_home | cenebris: as in "big capacitive, multitouch screen" ? | 13:46 |
| cenebris | thiago_home: yes, exactly, like Nokia X6 I believe | 13:47 |
| thiago_home | cenebris: that's what was announced for the Harmattan device | 13:47 |
| cenebris | thiago_home: without keyboard | 13:47 |
| nid0 | nokia desperately need to jump on the gorilla glass bandwagon if/when they do tbh | 13:48 |
| thiago_home | I can't tell you if it's going to have a keyboard or not | 13:48 |
| cenebris | nid0: yes, this glass would be great | 13:49 |
| thiago_home | I can only repeat what has been publicly announced | 13:49 |
| cenebris | thiago_home: you work for Nokia? | 13:49 |
| RST38h | cenebris: So, you do not want the keyboard? | 13:49 |
| thiago_home | yes | 13:49 |
| RST38h | cenebris: And you want a large capacitive glass touch screen? | 13:49 |
| cenebris | thiago_home: ok, good to know :) | 13:50 |
| RST38h | cenebris: And I suppose you also want the brilliant 480x320-pixel LCD? | 13:50 |
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| thiago_home | since the N900 is already 800x480, you can expect the Harmattan device to be no smaller | 13:50 |
| RST38h | thiago: Then it will not be able to compare to iPhone | 13:50 |
| cenebris | RST38h: like iPhone - no keyboard, large display, perhaps 800x480 like N900 | 13:50 |
| RST38h | cenebris: I see. Do you also want an Apple logo etched on the back? | 13:51 |
| nid0 | hd2-sized screens are the way to go for phones in that style tbh | 13:51 |
| cenebris | RST38h: no, I don't like the iPhone itself, but imho it's form factor is best for what I want/need | 13:52 |
| cenebris | nid0: I agree - big screen and pretty thin device without keyboard | 13:52 |
| nid0 | as almost all touchscreens are essentially the same form factor as the iphone, you're not exactly short on choice if thats what you want | 13:52 |
| gour | isn't entering data without keyboard to awkward on such devices? | 13:52 |
| RST38h | cenebris: Well, the funny thing is, N900 is exactly the same dimensions as iPhone with screen exactly the same size | 13:52 |
| gour | *too | 13:53 |
| RST38h | It is thicker, due to keyboard etc | 13:53 |
| nid0 | gour yes it is, personally I wouldnt want a phone without a keyboard | 13:53 |
| RST38h | But it *is* "the iphone form factor" | 13:53 |
| nid0 | but then I use it for data entry quite a lot, your average smartphone user doesnt | 13:53 |
| * gour agrees with nid0 | 13:53 | |
| gour | i want that phone is just one app on the device and use it more as mobile computer | 13:54 |
| nid0 | I find the keyboard on the n900 restrictive as it is, being as I come from the 5-line spacious mammoth on the e90 | 13:54 |
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| nid0 | certainly wouldnt want any less than the n900's | 13:54 |
| cenebris | RST38h: yes, but it has keyboard, that makes it thicker and personally keyboard only complicates everything for me (few languages, display keyboard is better in this case) | 13:54 |
| RST38h | Somebody, please tell me I am doing the wrong thing buying BH-905 | 13:54 |
| RST38h | cenebris: I would not buy it without a keyboard, sorry | 13:55 |
| cenebris | RST38h: tests says it is very good headset, although I didn't test it. Quite pricey though | 13:55 |
| nid0 | you're doing the wrong thing buying bh-905. | 13:55 |
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| cenebris | RST38h: well I would, hope Nokia can make models for people with different needs :) | 13:56 |
| RST38h | cenebris: There are x6, 5800, and its smaller sibling | 13:56 |
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| RST38h | cenebris: They should all satisfy you well | 13:56 |
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| RST38h | cenebris: Amazon offered the thing for $199, so I ordered it | 13:57 |
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| RST38h | Not exactly an economy model, but reasonable given the features | 13:58 |
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| cenebris | RST38h: and are you sattisfied with this headset? | 13:59 |
| RST38h | no idea yet, will get it in a week or so | 13:59 |
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| Stskeeps | dear god, please dont let people turn my tsg questions into a meego n900 thread | 15:01 |
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| RST38h | So, Stskeeps, will Meego run on N900? =) | 15:02 |
| * RST38h hides | 15:02 | |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: hell if i know. it may run on n8âx0 | 15:02 |
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| Stskeeps | as its armv5 atm | 15:03 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Gotta get rid of that PowerVR dependency though | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: xfce ;p | 15:03 |
| RST38h | Won't be a Meego then =B | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 15:04 |
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| Stskeeps | noone statements make sense until we see code. | 15:04 |
| RST38h | But really, all that clutterfuck does not perform any useful role anyway | 15:04 |
| RST38h | Some code is already in the repo | 15:05 |
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| Blice | RST38h: What repo? | 15:23 |
| Blice | I thought the only repo was the Moblin 2.2 one | 15:23 |
| Blice | which is not meego | 15:23 |
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| RST38h | I have recently seen a repository with some packages compiled | 15:26 |
| RST38h | Cannot locate the URL at the moment | 15:26 |
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| johna345 | Hi | 17:08 |
| johna345 | What is the current state of development of MeeGo? Is there a first release scheduled? | 17:08 |
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| johna345 | What is the current state of development of MeeGo? Is there a first release scheduled? | 17:10 |
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| Amby | Latest registered user on MeeGo: http://meego.com/user/3259 | 18:49 |
| thiago_home | what about him/her? | 18:52 |
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| * GAN900 hands thiago_home a "them". | 18:54 | |
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| Amby | thiago_home: nothing really, just happy to see the number of registered users climb. | 18:57 |
| thiago_home | are you sure it's sequential? :-P | 18:57 |
| * thiago_home once devised a registration number for an association that used a complex rule so that the numbers would grow quickly | 18:57 | |
| Amby | thiago_home: I'm sure there is like 5% dead registrations, but I'm rathar naive and thought that you were not involved in the numbering scheme this time! :) | 18:58 |
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| * thiago_home finds a bunch of meego-dev messages in his spam folder | 19:03 | |
| Robot101 | not a bad start in some cases :j | 19:04 |
| Robot101 | :) | 19:04 |
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| CosmoHill | Apple mighty mouce + wooden desk = problems | 19:06 |
| thiago_home | 14, including most of the TSG thread | 19:06 |
| CosmoHill | they thiago | 19:06 |
| thiago_home | hi | 19:07 |
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| qgilN900 | about MeeGo community... | 21:39 |
| qgilN900 | ... I was thinking that starting the Summit discussion is probably one of the most urgent things on the table | 21:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | for when? | 21:41 |
| timeless_mbp | or is that on the table? | 21:41 |
| qgilN900 | we only have a table, the rest is to be decided :) | 21:43 |
| qgilN900 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44947 | 21:43 |
| lbt | will there be icecream? | 21:43 |
| qgilN900 | granted | 21:43 |
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| lbt | I'm in | 21:43 |
| qgilN900 | that's why | 21:43 |
| RST38h | qgil: What is the estimated number of Moblin people at the summit? | 21:44 |
| lbt | I wonder what the point of this summit is? compared to maemo ones? | 21:44 |
| lbt | they seem to have been 'educational' historically | 21:45 |
| lbt | by september can we assume that much planning is resolved? | 21:45 |
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| qgilN900 | by the time of the Summit (September?) I wonder what 'Moblin people' will mean | 21:47 |
| qgilN900 | the Moblin summits were purely for developers, and even platform developers | 21:47 |
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| qgilN900 | at least this is what I would guess from the fact of being collocated with the Linux Collaboration Summit | 21:48 |
| lbt | o/ ahma | 21:48 |
| RST38h | qgil: The real question is about the ratio of people from different sides of the fence | 21:49 |
| lbt | RST38h: it is? in 6+ months time? | 21:49 |
| RST38h | I guess, ideally, you would want an integrated summit with topics interesting for both sides, rather than having two summits side by side | 21:49 |
| RST38h | lbt: Yes. We do not know how this will look in 6+ months. | 21:49 |
| qgilN900 | lbt if the first MeeGo release is planned for 2Q, I really hope by September (again: ?) a lot of planning is done and we are just increasing mass and speed | 21:50 |
| RST38h | lbt: I.e. I have some idea but not prepared to talk about it | 21:50 |
| qgilN900 | rst38h" the fence" being... handset guys vs netbook guys or...? | 21:50 |
| lbt | I think there will be a lot more problems to resolve than at normal Maemo summits | 21:50 |
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| RST38h | qgil: Moblin guys vs Maemo/Meego guys | 21:50 |
| lbt | (cf the opt problem which was addressed last time ... I expect a *lot* of them) | 21:51 |
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| RST38h | qgil: But yes, you can call the first group netbook people | 21:51 |
| qgilN900 | Moblin/MeeGo guys vs Maemo/MeeGo guys? | 21:51 |
| RST38h | qgil: My guess is that traditional netbook people will continue calling their stuff Moblin | 21:51 |
| qgilN900 | vs all the nw people joining that didn't care much about Moblin or MeeGo before? | 21:52 |
| qgilN900 | no way | 21:52 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: the same way that traditional smartphone people will continue calling their stuff Maemo? | 21:53 |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: do you know the moblin summit organizers? | 21:53 |
| qgilN900 | yes, the Intel guys | 21:53 |
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| saft | Hi ppl, I had the idea to buy me a nexus one and install meego there when its ready would it work? | 21:54 |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: i was hoping for a less generic answer | 21:54 |
| thiago_home | saft: you should ask Google that question | 21:54 |
| qgilN900 | Dirk, Imad... | 21:54 |
| thiago_home | saft: it's their hardware | 21:54 |
| saft | thiago_home: i did | 21:55 |
| thiago_home | saft: what did they say? | 21:55 |
| saft | bla | 21:55 |
| Myrtti | how unsurprising | 21:55 |
| saft | there is no awnser since there is no meego :P | 21:55 |
| lbt | saft: meego is (will be) an open OS ... if you have open HW then you should be able to run it. | 21:55 |
| * thiago_home bets that SnapDragon will be one of the supported ARM platforms (we have to convince Qualcomm) | 21:55 | |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: and the time | 21:56 |
| timeless_mbp | and the energy to adapt the various levels required | 21:56 |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: he's got time to be on irc... | 21:56 |
| timeless_mbp | oh! yeah | 21:56 |
| thiago_home | but whether all the hardware that is on the Nexus One is supported, and whether you can flash anything onto the device, those are questions best asked to Google | 21:56 |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: so, personally i like montreal or toronto as host cities | 21:57 |
| lbt | qgilN900: what areas will the summit address? | 21:57 |
| pupnik | will there be a break with classic X11 for meego? | 21:57 |
| timeless_mbp | moco is using whistler (outside vancouver) for summits | 21:57 |
| saft | well if you can use the hartware with the linux kernel who cares about google? its not like i asked dell if i could install linux on my laptop?! | 21:57 |
| lbt | there's so much new stuff that I wonder if it needs to be longer | 21:57 |
| qgilN900 | lbt: it's *our* summit, so we decide | 21:57 |
| timeless_mbp | but they're for 'core' (roughly 400 core people!) only | 21:57 |
| lbt | yep... these are questions for us all :) | 21:57 |
| lcuk | are we having a cagefight? | 21:57 |
| * w00t tags lcuk | 21:58 | |
| w00t | you're it ;) | 21:58 |
| thiago_home | pupnik: no, not until there's something better than X11 anyway | 21:58 |
| lcuk | damn! | 21:58 |
| timeless_mbp | pupnik: what do you mean break? | 21:58 |
| * lcuk tags pupnik | 21:58 | |
| w00t | (evening all) | 21:58 |
| timeless_mbp | like using qtopia? :) | 21:58 |
| lbt | o/ w00t | 21:58 |
| saft | lcuk: the atmosphere seems loaded somehow... | 21:58 |
| pupnik | conference someplace reasonably cheap and free of hassles pls | 21:58 |
| thiago_home | no, not Qtopia | 21:58 |
| thiago_home | but QWS, who knows | 21:58 |
| * w00t reads scrollback | 21:58 | |
| thiago_home | maybe Lighthouse | 21:58 |
| lbt | pupnik: Amsterdam... (ask lcuk) | 21:58 |
| qgilN900 | it's becoming more difficult to define "cheap" when Europe/America seem more balanced in MeeGo | 21:59 |
| lbt | not Qtopia? we thought that was the future... wow..... deal-breaker | 21:59 |
| pupnik | the amsterdam venue was very nice | 21:59 |
| lcuk | im serious about video linkups | 21:59 |
| thiago_home | Qtopia was EOL'ed one year ago | 21:59 |
| qgilN900 | I also wonder what might come out from Asia, since Intel has plenty of partners there... | 21:59 |
| thiago_home | QWS/Lighthouse, who knos | 21:59 |
| * lbt stops teasing thiago_home | 21:59 | |
| w00t | thiago_home: technically, it's community support, isn't it? | 21:59 |
| thiago_home | right, EOL'ed as a product | 21:59 |
| ljp | what do you mean? qtopia is really the secret future | 21:59 |
| timeless_mbp | thiago: aww, i'm sure we could resurrect it! | 22:00 |
| pupnik | who here has contact to intel/moblin? what do those guys want? | 22:00 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: die in a fire | 22:00 |
| RST38h | pupnik: I will go for money =) | 22:00 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: oh, i have no love for Qtopia | 22:00 |
| w00t | hehe | 22:00 |
| qgilN900 | want about what? Ice cream as well, I guess | 22:00 |
| lbt | pupnik: the problem with intel/moblin is they don't have the same kind of community maemo had | 22:00 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Dunno about the rest | 22:00 |
| ljp | timeless_mbp: development of qtopia is still ongoing for the openmoko phone | 22:00 |
| lcuk | did anybody manage to find/build a moblin image for pentium m chipsets? | 22:00 |
| timeless_mbp | but it seemed like a stupid question, so it deserved a stupid answer | 22:00 |
| RST38h | lcuk: no | 22:00 |
| timeless_mbp | ljp: isn't openmoko dead? :) | 22:00 |
| qgilN900 | lbt that is not a problem but an advantage | 22:01 |
| RST38h | lcuk: although you may try Moblin1 | 22:01 |
| ljp | timeless_mbp: the community is still thriving, companies still sell updated hardware | 22:01 |
| lbt | qgilN900: yeah s/problem/thing/ | 22:01 |
| saft | well its quite funny here... | 22:01 |
| pupnik | well heck, make it somewhere in europe if possible. i think that will get best attendance | 22:01 |
| w00t | lbt: not so sure that's a problem, in some ways, it means there's less directions things can be pulled in | 22:01 |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: we're still assuming a 3 day weekend summit? | 22:01 |
| * lcuk watches the shadows vs vorlons having a massive megabattle | 22:01 | |
| lbt | we don't know (until they tell us) what they'd like to focus on | 22:01 |
| qgilN900 | summit: we need to rethink everything | 22:02 |
| lbt | multiple device family support | 22:02 |
| RST38h | qgil: Will there new SDK / hardware in time for the summit? | 22:02 |
| lbt | ROFL | 22:02 |
| RST38h | there [be] new | 22:02 |
| qgilN900 | it might even make sense to have a GUADEC-likev model, with certain days for core developers and some days for a wider audience | 22:03 |
| * lbt passes qgilN900 a magic 8-ball | 22:03 | |
| * thiago_home suggests Munich | 22:03 | |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 22:03 | |
| * w00t suggests his living room | 22:03 | |
| timeless_mbp | HEL to YYZ for 9/23 to 9/27 is ~900USD | 22:03 |
| qgilN900 | rst38h new sdk for sure. read again: MeeGo release in 2Q | 22:03 |
| thiago_home | if you put it next to Qt Dev Days again, at least make it the same city :-) | 22:03 |
| RST38h | Aha, cool | 22:03 |
| * RST38h suggests Moscow | 22:04 | |
| timeless_mbp | thiago: yeah that was fail | 22:04 |
| qgilN900 | hardware... I guess there will be at least an Atom refverence hardware | 22:04 |
| pupnik | any advantage to piggyback it to a wider linux event? | 22:04 |
| lbt | thiago_home: linking with a Qt may be an idea | 22:04 |
| * ljp suggests Brisbane | 22:04 | |
| * RST38h Although hotel costs are probably gonna be prohibitively high | 22:04 | |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, HEOL to SFO for 9/23 to 9/27 is ~900USD (but prices go up faster) | 22:04 |
| thiago_home | yeah, I'd love to go to Brisbane | 22:04 |
| timeless_mbp | s/HEOL/HEL/ | 22:04 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: hrm, HEL to SFO for 9/23 to 9/27 is ~900USD (but prices go up faster) | 22:04 |
| thiago_home | it snowed last year in MUC | 22:04 |
| lcuk | qgilN900, to ease some of the work for the smaller talks, barcamps have a method where plans for them are posted on a board on the day | 22:04 |
| lcuk | just open slots | 22:04 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, HEL pretty much sucks as a point of origin | 22:04 |
| lbt | plan video team in advance... :) | 22:05 |
| thiago_home | so does OSL | 22:05 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, HEL to YVR for 9/23 to 9/27 has a base of >1350USD | 22:05 |
| timeless_mbp | which i think means YVR is out :( | 22:05 |
| * lbt was super-impressed with the Debconf live videostreaming... | 22:05 | |
| thiago_home | going to PDX in one week will require 2 stops | 22:05 |
| qgilN900 | lcuk, call me traditional but before I'd like to agree on scope, audience, location and dates :) | 22:05 |
| timeless_mbp | (well, 2stop base of >1050USD) | 22:05 |
| *** Plektra has joined #meego | 22:05 | |
| qgilN900 | then we know we can of beast we have creeated | 22:05 |
| * w00t would concur with qgilN900 really | 22:06 | |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: =~ s/creeated/created/ | 22:06 |
| lcuk | qgilN900, of course, but opening a couple of rooms and being freeform for that purpose doesnt harm? | 22:06 |
| timeless_mbp | HEL to SEA is ~900USD | 22:06 |
| w00t | discussing the how before the what seems a little erk | 22:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm quite happy w/ SEA also | 22:06 |
| * lbt thinks the scope could be more than just the attendees | 22:06 | |
| lcuk | open conference | 22:06 |
| thiago_home | unconference | 22:06 |
| lbt | and that's an important starting point | 22:06 |
| w00t | lbt: in what way? | 22:06 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, so roughly crossing the pond from HEL has a 900USD base price w/ a penalty to go to YVR | 22:06 |
| RST38h | One thing I know for sure is that dividing scope into Maemo and Meego parts is wrong | 22:06 |
| lbt | well, meego 'community' could be much bigger than maemo | 22:07 |
| qgilN900 | rst38h that's for sure | 22:07 |
| RST38h | Better intertwine things, even although it may feel artificial at times | 22:07 |
| lbt | and there will be a lot of people we should include | 22:07 |
| timeless_mbp | ooh | 22:07 |
| lbt | we have technology to support that | 22:07 |
| lbt | virtual attendanve | 22:07 |
| timeless_mbp | HEL to CHI gets me <800USD base | 22:07 |
| w00t | right | 22:07 |
| w00t | of course, thats a sensible idea | 22:07 |
| thiago_home | CHI? | 22:07 |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: stop posting prices please | 22:07 |
| timeless_mbp | thiago: Chicago | 22:07 |
| thiago_home | ah, ORD | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | not sure which airport | 22:08 |
| * thiago_home will be there in about 10 days | 22:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | it might be Midway | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | BOS is about the same as CHI | 22:08 |
| qgilN900 | US can be a pain for visas for many people | 22:08 |
| thiago_home | Boston is a great deal closer | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | thiago: it only saved about 100USD | 22:08 |
| lbt | so should the summit primarily focus on the attendees or should it aim to provide info for the non-attending community too? | 22:08 |
| w00t | qgilN900: not to mention the generally quite strict border control | 22:08 |
| thiago_home | yeah, I'll have to renew my visa for the US this year | 22:08 |
| timeless_mbp | which all things considered is trivial | 22:08 |
| ljp | Australia it is then! | 22:08 |
| thiago_home | I need visa for Australia too | 22:09 |
| arjan | can we do hawaii | 22:09 |
| bfree | how about Ireland :-p (mildly serious as it's "between" EU and US) | 22:09 |
| thiago_home | and for Canada | 22:09 |
| thiago_home | bfree: Iceland | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | arjan: can you sponsor everyone? | 22:09 |
| RST38h | Canada is also relatively strict AFAIK | 22:09 |
| pupnik | good idea bfree | 22:09 |
| RST38h | Ireland may not be such a bad idea | 22:09 |
| lcuk | northpole | 22:09 |
| pupnik | (selfish but good) :) | 22:09 |
| lcuk | everybody head north | 22:09 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 22:09 | |
| lbt | not London! | 22:09 |
| thiago_home | Dublin was nice in 2006 | 22:09 |
| w00t | lbt: er.. I'm still a little confused by what you quite mean - obviously, the more eyes on and attention the better, but focus in what sense? | 22:09 |
| RST38h | Spain? | 22:09 |
| RST38h | Portugal? | 22:10 |
| RST38h | Both should be relatively cheap | 22:10 |
| qgilN900 | so we have platform developers (high % of professionals and the rest can be funded) | 22:10 |
| thiago_home | Gran Canaria again? | 22:10 |
| pupnik | also good RST38h | 22:10 |
| lcuk | france! | 22:10 |
| qgilN900 | app developers are relatively easy to map | 22:10 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 22:10 | |
| * w00t notes signal to noise ratio is starting to suck | 22:10 | |
| RST38h | May I suggest Greece? | 22:10 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: incredibly expensive from USA i'd imagine | 22:10 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You wanna deal with another transportation workers strike? | 22:10 |
| timeless_mbp | if you sponsor intel to greece | 22:10 |
| lbt | w00t: the content and scope could change if you included virtual attendance | 22:10 |
| qgilN900 | and then contributors & lovely users everywhere (but with certain areas of density) | 22:10 |
| RST38h | Anything is expensive from USA. | 22:10 |
| lcuk | http://pininthemap.com/maemo | 22:10 |
| RST38h | Especially when donw before September 15th | 22:11 |
| lcuk | locations of a great number of the maemo community | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: usa to LHR/PAR is generally tolerable | 22:11 |
| saft | FMO germany central in europe with multiple airports close to amsterdam, dortmund, hamburg and dusseldorf | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | CDG | 22:11 |
| lbt | w00t: it also allows for much more parallelism as it guarantees you won't miss anything | 22:11 |
| qgilN900 | what about picking picking 3-5 with high density of app developers and contributor | 22:11 |
| RST38h | France is expensive + they strike a lot | 22:11 |
| lcuk | qgilN900, the map i just posted has that info | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: England has plenty of strikes | 22:11 |
| qgilN900 | and then divide platform developers per areas, wherever suits best | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | heck so does Finland of late | 22:11 |
| lbt | timeless_mbp: rubbish | 22:11 |
| w00t | qgilN900: distributed summit? interesting idea :P | 22:11 |
| RST38h | You can just as well fly to Moscow and rent a freaking river ship for the whole summit | 22:11 |
| qgilN900 | and then good video streaming, life and archived | 22:12 |
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| w00t | qgilN900: provided it's all e.g. streamed online.. it should be good | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | so, seattle to athens is ~1050USD | 22:12 |
| w00t | great minds etc :) | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | not so bad | 22:12 |
| qgilN900 | this is really complex for organizers | 22:12 |
| qgilN900 | but if you ask me | 22:12 |
| qgilN900 | no risk no fun | 22:12 |
| lcuk | berlin is a hub | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: um | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | you realize we failed to do decent streaming across AMS, right? | 22:12 |
| ljp | I got it! there's a place called Internetland | 22:12 |
| lcuk | amsterdam is, which other euro hubs are there | 22:12 |
| timeless_mbp | that was what, two buildings? | 22:12 |
| * arjan votes amsterdam | 22:12 | |
| arjan | (nice direct flight from portland | 22:13 |
| * timeless_mbp votes against AMS | 22:13 | |
| * timeless_mbp would rather ATH | 22:13 | |
| arjan | and I get through customs easily ;-) | 22:13 |
| * timeless_mbp has been to AMS too many times | 22:13 | |
| * lcuk is going to athens | 22:13 | |
| * timeless_mbp hasn't been to ATH and needs to go | 22:13 | |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: with proper planning, I don't see why it's not possible | 22:13 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: FRA, PAR, MUC, London | 22:13 |
| lcuk | london :) | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: same argument, been there, done that | 22:13 |
| w00t | london, heh | 22:13 |
| thiago_home | arjan: uh... not so _nice_ | 22:13 |
| timeless_mbp | Dublin would be better | 22:13 |
| bfree | an English speaking location is a bonus imvho (with the Dutch being so good at English I'd let them count as English speaking). A country with a decent Intel and/or Nokia presence might make it easier | 22:13 |
| lbt | London is a bad idea | 22:13 |
| * mikhas votes for berlin =D | 22:13 | |
| thiago_home | arjan: Delta 767 without individual entertainment system | 22:13 |
| pupnik | naye on london | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | bfree: nokia doesn't have a decent presence anywhere | 22:14 |
| lbt | outside london... maybe | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | so scratch that | 22:14 |
| arjan | thiago: I know.. | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | Intel has a presence in .il, but somehow i doubt that's work for people :) | 22:14 |
| arjan | intel has a huge office in amsterdam ;) | 22:14 |
| * arjan also will get to visit family ;) | 22:14 | |
| timeless_mbp | mozilla has done mozcamp europes in Prague and Barcelona | 22:14 |
| * ljp 's second choice would be Anguilla | 22:15 | |
| lcuk | throwing in ;) doesnt help lol | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | they do work, but i wouldn't recommend it for 400+ people | 22:15 |
| RST38h | thiago: hardly any of us require onboard entertainment systems, if you get my drift... | 22:15 |
| * thiago_home knows the AMS airport better than he would have cared to | 22:15 | |
| pupnik | we can assume intel folks who are vested in meego can travel to europe i think | 22:15 |
| lcuk | you have to mention the museums and stuff | 22:15 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: my N900 battery doesn't last the 10 hours if I'm watching stuff | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | Rome is slightly better although from memory kinda pricey for hotels | 22:15 |
| timeless_mbp | (heck, Torino wasn't cheap) | 22:15 |
| thiago_home | RST38h: even with flight recharging from the laptop | 22:15 |
| RST38h | thiago: Take two! | 22:15 |
| qgilN900 | pupnik, especially rhose based in UK :) | 22:15 |
| mikhas | prague would be cheap, too | 22:15 |
| RST38h | Prague sounds like a good choice | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | thiago: i fly AMS as a hub often enough | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | AMS, LHR, and FRA i think | 22:16 |
| * thiago_home used to go more to AMS, but now more FRA and MUC | 22:16 | |
| thiago_home | going FRA-DEN to Portland now, then ORD-FRA on the way back | 22:16 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 22:16 | |
| lcuk | belgium has the strangest things about refreshment: http://liqbase.net/liq.belgium.coke.20100208_018.jpg | 22:16 |
| * ljp has flown MEH lately | 22:16 | |
| w00t | lcuk: mmmmm coke wee | 22:17 |
| timeless_mbp | ljp: Norway?! | 22:17 |
| timeless_mbp | where in the world were you connecting to, and why was that helpful? | 22:17 |
| * RST38h flies direct lately, not trying my luck with Delta or United again | 22:17 | |
| timeless_mbp | (which airline?) | 22:17 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: huh? | 22:17 |
| ljp | dang it, there really is MEH | 22:17 |
| *** saft has quit IRC | 22:18 | |
| thiago_home | I meant, ljp | 22:18 |
| w00t | thiago_home: where in .no are you based btw? | 22:18 |
| thiago_home | w00t: OSL | 22:18 |
| lcuk | thiago, the little munchin man is an iconic thing in belgium | 22:18 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: I know | 22:18 |
| w00t | thiago_home: ah, cool, I hope to visit there eventually.. I go to TRD a few times a year atm | 22:18 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: a huge disappointment, if you ask me | 22:18 |
| lcuk | lol | 22:18 |
| pupnik | a game dev track might be nice. there are a lot of people i would write | 22:18 |
| thiago_home | w00t: sure, just let us know so we have the time to hide the Maemo prototypes | 22:19 |
| thiago_home | w00t: :-P | 22:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The name is Mannequin Pis | 22:19 |
| * w00t shakes fist | 22:19 | |
| w00t | :P | 22:19 |
| lcuk | thanks RST38h | 22:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: (and yes, that is exactly what it sounds like) | 22:19 |
| lcuk | i know | 22:19 |
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| lcuk | thiago, there are no maemo prototypes to hide :p | 22:19 |
| thiago_home | lcuk: sure there are | 22:20 |
| ljp | we dont get prototypes, just cardboard look-alikes | 22:20 |
| * lcuk gives you tip-ex and a new sharpie | 22:20 | |
| * qgilN900 must smile because no Asian city was mentioned and who knows how many developers from China India SKorea MeeGo will have quite soon | 22:20 | |
| RST38h | ljp: they should switch to ice cream | 22:20 |
| mikhas | I'll throw in stuttgart (ger), as well - good connections, and hub-y | 22:20 |
| *** paulliu has quit IRC | 22:20 | |
| RST38h | lpj: makes prototype autodestruct after a while, plus you can LICK IT | 22:20 |
| lcuk | qgilN900, of course, how do we break the language barrier | 22:20 |
| ljp | speak in Qt | 22:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: worse, how do you break cultural barrier? | 22:21 |
| * thiago_home thought India spoke English, mostly | 22:21 | |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: i could name cities | 22:21 |
| qgilN900 | why didn't you mention language and culture mentioning all those cities before? | 22:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | but generally it ends up being Seol, or Tokyo or a couple of others in Japan | 22:22 |
| timeless_mbp | we're unlikely to do China | 22:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I.e. what are you gonna do with 100+ Chinese who come to the summit, listen in silence, talk to each other quietly, then leave? | 22:22 |
| timeless_mbp | s/Seol/Seoul/ | 22:22 |
| w00t | qgilN900: I think the thing there is that we don't have that coverage *now*, so it wasn't on many people's minds, rather than deliberate exclusion :P | 22:22 |
| RST38h | Korea/Japan raise the ticket price to $1000+ for *everybody* involved | 22:22 |
| RST38h | Can we please avoid going there? | 22:22 |
| * ljp suggests Cupertino | 22:23 | |
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| thiago_home | let's do it in South America then | 22:23 |
| RST38h | ljp: Apple campus main lawn? | 22:23 |
| thiago_home | then *I* get to visit family | 22:23 |
| qgilN900 | "we" don't know which coverage have "we" now | 22:23 |
| w00t | qgilN900: did you miss the earlier map? it's by no means definitive but it gives some idea | 22:23 |
| timeless_mbp | ljp: Cupertino is fine w/ me, but convention centers are mostly SJC | 22:23 |
| timeless_mbp | (santa clara) | 22:23 |
| qgilN900 | which map? | 22:23 |
| lcuk | you are right qgil, i actually liked it in barcelona with the translation units. it added a new aspect and understanding to it | 22:23 |
| thiago_home | timeless_mbp: hotels do nicely for that | 22:24 |
| w00t | qgilN900: http://pininthemap.com/maemo | 22:24 |
| RST38h | qgil: the "now" thing is real easy to estimate, look at who is active on the mailing lists and what kind of hits you are getting at meego.com | 22:24 |
| timeless_mbp | thiago: not in cupertino | 22:24 |
| timeless_mbp | there are only 3 or so i can think of | 22:24 |
| thiago_home | timeless_mbp: Qt Developer Days has always been in the valley area | 22:24 |
| RST38h | qgil: "+6 months" is more of a problem | 22:24 |
| timeless_mbp | thiago: sure | 22:24 |
| qgilN900 | that is a Maemo map, and I'm talking about MeeGo | 22:24 |
| timeless_mbp | but the valley isn't just Cupertino | 22:24 |
| lcuk | qgilN900, yes, but thats a start | 22:24 |
| timeless_mbp | it's mountain view, stanford, san jose, santa clara | 22:24 |
| w00t | qgilN900: sure. but um, much as I hate to go back to an earlier point, meego doesn't really have much of a community *now* | 22:24 |
| timeless_mbp | less so campbell and points west | 22:24 |
| RST38h | qgil: Ok, add ~100-200 people in Oregon and you get Meego map for now :) | 22:25 |
| qgilN900 | Qt has a community, Moblin/Atom has a community, Asia plays a visible role for them. Just saying | 22:25 |
| thiago_home | Qt community has very little to do with the potential MeeGo community | 22:26 |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: i'm perfectly happy to do Seoul or just about anywhere in japan | 22:26 |
| thiago_home | especially the Developer Days attendence | 22:26 |
| timeless_mbp | (as long as it's a city) | 22:26 |
| w00t | qgilN900: I'm not discounting that there are other parties involved in this. Just pointing out that what people they do bring are dominated (currently) by maemo people, look at the community working group for example | 22:26 |
| timeless_mbp | but as someone said, you're adding 1000{cur} to each flight | 22:26 |
| timeless_mbp | which at say 500 people isn't a trivial sum | 22:26 |
| w00t | qgilN900: you, yourself said "quite soon", not "now" | 22:27 |
| qgilN900 | guys, if we are planning for an event in 6 months we need to imagine the audience (the MeeGo community) by that time | 22:27 |
| w00t | qgilN900: my whole point is, those places weren't mentioned because there is no huge representation from those places *now*, I wasn't making any other point | 22:27 |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: i'd suggest considering meego does asia the second or third year instead of the first year | 22:27 |
| timeless_mbp | if meego takes off, it will pretty much _have_ to cater to asia then | 22:28 |
| qgilN900 | remember that I just suggsted a decentralized summit few lines above | 22:28 |
| w00t | timeless_mbp: multiple locations mean that is less of a problem | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm mostly opposed to decentralized | 22:28 |
| qgilN900 | plus it's sunday night and I'm just challenging your clever minds :) | 22:28 |
| w00t | I'm ambivilent to it | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | it's fairly important to physically meet people and do things offsite | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | talks over dinner | 22:28 |
| w00t | I'd have to see it in action before I could pan it, really | 22:28 |
| lcuk | not a challenge, just travelling salesman problems ;) | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | walks and schmoozing | 22:28 |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: can you name any other groups which have done decentralized events? | 22:29 |
| w00t | I do agree that face time is important | 22:29 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd like to suggest that nokia-intel are not a good group to trial it | 22:29 |
| qgilN900 | timeless, decentralized doesn't mean 400 locations with 1 person in each place | 22:29 |
| timeless_mbp | however, if someone else has experience w/ it, that's a different story | 22:29 |
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| qgilN900 | what about 1 in each continent to start with | 22:29 |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: i have no interest in schmoozing in HEL, thank you very much | 22:29 |
| w00t | but .. with a divergent group, it might work, the main problem I see would be diluting things too far | 22:29 |
| lcuk | +1 | 22:29 |
| lcuk | qgilN900 yes | 22:29 |
| RST38h | Prolly too much of trouble | 22:30 |
| lcuk | with time crossover where possible | 22:30 |
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| lcuk | and simucast | 22:30 |
| qgilN900 | trouble for whom? | 22:30 |
| ljp | decentralized place : 127.0.0.1 | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | time crossover across the pond mostly sucks | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | you start w/ a roughly 5 hour gap | 22:30 |
| RST38h | Expensive to organize in multiple locations at once, gives participants less opportunity for close interpersonal communication, which is one of the main purposes of these summits | 22:30 |
| w00t | qgilN900: I wonder how well it would work out distributed locations *and* distributed times | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | which means one side is at 8am and the other side is at 1pm | 22:30 |
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| qgilN900 | rst38h who can pay a transatlantic flight to attend a conference? | 22:31 |
| ljp | but if we all switch to swatch time, it will be the same time! | 22:31 |
| w00t | qgilN900: as in, a month between them, a number of mini-summits, not one huge summit per year | 22:31 |
| lcuk | we just watched the olympics from the other side of the world! | 22:31 |
| pupnik_ | few | 22:31 |
| RST38h | qgilN900: Intel can, every now and then :) | 22:31 |
| qgilN900 | read back my idea of moving platform devs wherever convenient but localize a bit app devs and other contributors | 22:31 |
| timeless_mbp | ljp: you're clearly on the 127.0.0.1 side of this, i think that means you earn a /dev/null route | 22:31 |
| RST38h | But , on the other hand, if we all meet half-way, we will drown in the ocean :) | 22:31 |
| lcuk | RST38h, well, its one way to make sure the idea floats | 22:32 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: nah, we'd land in BOS or ICE | 22:32 |
| timeless_mbp | BOS isn't bad | 22:32 |
| Hukka | RST38h: or we could have an arctc meeting | 22:32 |
| Hukka | arctic | 22:32 |
| * lcuk nods | 22:32 | |
| ljp | ok, how about Perth, that way _everybody_ has to travel a great distance | 22:32 |
| RST38h | ljp: Same as Korea/Japan, but at least with edible food. | 22:32 |
| lcuk | apart from some of the qt people | 22:32 |
| w00t | ljp: nah, we want to force you to travel far | 22:33 |
| pupnik_ | quim's suggestion could potentially allow a greater critical mass of attendance. | 22:33 |
| RST38h | qgil: ah, so the low level people (which are few have one summit and the rest has another? Makes sense... | 22:33 |
| lcuk | are the kde gang part of meego community btw | 22:33 |
| w00t | but more seriously, I think that decentralising things is a good idea to at least experiment with | 22:33 |
| w00t | lcuk: depends who you ask | 22:33 |
| timeless_mbp | SEA to PER is 2100USD | 22:33 |
| w00t | I think everyone has a different background ;) | 22:33 |
| RST38h | Prague. Definitely Prague. | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: nah, bad choice | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | HEL to PER is 1900USD | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | so it's +1000usd on both sides, and fairly even penalty | 22:34 |
| qgilN900 | rst38h or you get all kernel/core in one local summit, multimedia in another, toolkit in another... | 22:34 |
| RST38h | qgil: hey, hey, that is spreading 'em too thin =) | 22:34 |
| qgilN900 | this way every place has a bit of platform / apps / misc contributors | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | qgilN900: that'd be roughly Kernel/Core in Oregon | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | and Multimedia in HEL | 22:34 |
| timeless_mbp | fairly pointless | 22:35 |
| lcuk | but thats just like the irc channels, and does not allow crosspolination of ideas | 22:35 |
| RST38h | kernel/core/base tools people do deserve a separate summit somewhere in Oregon | 22:35 |
| timeless_mbp | why bother having meego in the first place? | 22:35 |
| Hukka | qgilN900: though would that mean that moblin people go to one and maemo to other? | 22:35 |
| RST38h | But breaking down the rest may not make too much of sense | 22:35 |
| qgilN900 | hukka why, they overlap in plenty of areas | 22:35 |
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| lcuk | how long is the summit planned to be | 22:36 |
| lcuk | are we keeping with same 3 days | 22:36 |
| Hukka | qgilN900: well, just thinking that by announcement core is moblin and ui harmattan | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: i think the operating assumption is 3 days | 22:36 |
| lcuk | or because of additional details more | 22:36 |
| w00t | splitting on nametag lines (like where you came from) is a bad, bad idea if you want a cohesive, unified community, and I suppose that is something that shouldn't be overlooked if there are multiple summits | 22:36 |
| lcuk | well theres greater things to talk about | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | however if you're doing a cross ocean trip, it makes much more sense to do a week thing instead | 22:36 |
| Hukka | but dunno about the arm core people | 22:37 |
| w00t | (at this stage particularly - you don't want to alienate people) | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | it helps you recoup cost on the flights | 22:37 |
| lcuk | that makes sense timeless | 22:37 |
| lcuk | manyt of the people who came over last time stayed longer | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | generally people who cross want to do 10 or so days, people who are local are able to do closer to 5 | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | doing 3 is incredibly painful and fairly pointless | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | you spend too much time jet lagged | 22:38 |
| lcuk | my point exactly | 22:38 |
| RST38h | Center of the Earth then? | 22:38 |
| lcuk | perhaps the level of discussions should focus on specific middle days | 22:38 |
| RST38h | Equally close to everybody? | 22:38 |
| pupnik_ | also lets people cho cannot schedule a couple days attend other days | 22:38 |
| lcuk | but with events on either side which are for specific target audiences | 22:39 |
| lcuk | as qgilN900 said | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | we could do the bahamas :) | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | that's probably closer to center :) | 22:39 |
| lcuk | i'd rather not go to any small islands atm | 22:39 |
| w00t | lcuk: you *live* on one! | 22:40 |
| * w00t ducks | 22:40 | |
| * lcuk kicks ur shins | 22:40 | |
| w00t | hehe | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: hawaii survived chile's earthquake, no? | 22:40 |
| lcuk | indeed | 22:40 |
| RST38h | That is why he does not want to visit any others, probably | 22:40 |
| lcuk | the logstics of bringing in many people from many places makes a city near a hub the ideal location | 22:41 |
| pupnik_ | frankfurt is a hub | 22:42 |
| pupnik_ | and i got rooms :P | 22:42 |
| Hukka | pupnik_: breakfast included? | 22:43 |
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| w00t | i'd expect a massage, if I was being forced to go to frankfurt again ;-) | 22:44 |
| * w00t had a rather nightmarish experience there once when heading back to the UK from sydney.. | 22:44 | |
| Hukka | w00t: dont use ryanair next time :) | 22:44 |
| w00t | Hukka: hehe. I wasn't, and the airline wasn't the problem.. we got very very lost, and being jetlagged to hell probably didn't help that :P | 22:45 |
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| w00t | lastlog -clear | 22:46 |
| w00t | bah | 22:46 |
| pupnik_ | not much vacationy flair. but infrastructure is good. dunno about dublin, prague, portugal, spain | 22:46 |
| mikhas | one is not like the other | 22:47 |
| w00t | i've heard reports that dublin is ok. not been there myself, and no idea if it'd scale to hundreds of people. ;) | 22:47 |
| Hukka | copenhagen is a hub too | 22:47 |
| RST38h | There is also Budapest | 22:47 |
| RST38h | Although I doubt it is much of a hub | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | i think dublin is probably still cheap for the next year or so | 22:47 |
| mikhas | it's a nice city though, that must count | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | it's recovering from a crash | 22:47 |
| Hukka | timeless_mbp: ah, so athens then | 22:48 |
| Hukka | just going into the nosedive | 22:48 |
| lcuk | helsinki | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | there's also silicon glen ... | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | Hukka: i think ath's nosedive makes it a bad choice | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | they won't be recovering | 22:49 |
| thiago_home | qgilN900: btw, let's remember together to discuss in September about community attendance to Dev Days | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | services could easily be missing, there's a risk of riots and stuff | 22:49 |
| Hukka | timeless_mbp: let's not get serious about that :) | 22:49 |
| pupnik_ | looks like most folks are favoring someplace in continental .eu | 22:51 |
| pupnik_ | how about a wiki with actual links to conference centers | 22:51 |
| Hukka | how big it needs to be? | 22:52 |
| Hukka | does it really need to be a real confcentere, not just a hotel? | 22:52 |
| pupnik_ | amst attracted 400 | 22:52 |
| mikhas | yeah, but that was because of the dope | 22:53 |
| pupnik_ | very hard to predict these things. fosdem hat estimated a couple thousand | 22:54 |
| Hukka | dipoli-size, then ;) | 22:54 |
| mikhas | that's why you have registrations, as early as possible | 22:54 |
| pupnik_ | so a couple hundred seems a safe bet. any thoughts? | 22:54 |
| mikhas | if the registrations indicate your location gets overrun then you can still relocate the event | 22:55 |
| * qgilN900 feels after some conferences it's not worth growing if that brings less usefulness at then end of the conf | 22:55 | |
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| mikhas | can you really control the growth of a conf? | 22:55 |
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| pupnik_ | charge money :) | 22:55 |
| qgilN900 | sure, approve only talks about OMAP kernel and you'll see | 22:55 |
| thiago_home | Dev Days is paid for and attracted 1000 people last year | 22:55 |
| qgilN900 | or limit the registration to a number and you'll see | 22:56 |
| * Stskeeps takes a deep breath and submits a response to the TSG thread and hopes it comes off as less mean :P | 22:56 | |
| qgilN900 | again, desired scope, audience and goal goes first | 22:57 |
| pupnik_ | tough questions | 22:57 |
| qgilN900 | let's define first what we want to get out of the first MeeGo summit, and then the rest will flow | 22:57 |
| pupnik_ | come on folks, what do you want to learn? | 22:58 |
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| thiago_home | good question | 22:59 |
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| thiago_home | what do people want to learn? | 22:59 |
| qgilN900 | learn... and do | 22:59 |
| w00t | thiago_home: at dev days? | 22:59 |
| qgilN900 | who you want to meet | 22:59 |
| thiago_home | at MeeGo Summit | 23:00 |
| w00t | right, was wondering where the discussion wasgoing | 23:00 |
| * w00t is only half paying attention now | 23:00 | |
| mikhas | OSB, learn + do, finally | 23:00 |
| qgilN900 | (no need for concrete names, which kind of people or roles) | 23:00 |
| mikhas | or is it OBS? | 23:00 |
| lcuk | in one sentense summarise the most important thing you have learnt at a previous summit. | 23:00 |
| mikhas | lcuk, does it have to be conf-related? | 23:00 |
| lcuk | well thats what we are talking about | 23:01 |
| qgilN900 | 23:00 my cinderella time | 23:01 |
| lcuk | what made a summit for you last time | 23:01 |
| qgilN900 | bye! | 23:01 |
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| pupnik_ | cu quim. | 23:01 |
| timeless_mbp | "* qgil mischief managed" | 23:01 |
| mikhas | barcelona was great because it threw different people together onto defined problems | 23:02 |
| mikhas | (referring to that long weekend thing) | 23:02 |
| lcuk | yes | 23:02 |
| lcuk | that was a remarkable working weekend | 23:03 |
| mikhas | it didnt actually matter whether you had the specific interest, it only mattered what you could do out of it | 23:03 |
| lcuk | yeah | 23:03 |
| lcuk | from what i gather everybody got something valuable out of it | 23:03 |
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| Stskeeps | otoh, the presentations were mostly nokians, were they not? | 23:04 |
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| Stskeeps | in maemo summit, thati s | 23:04 |
| mikhas | well, then let's say that one topic for a meego summit could be UX, again =) | 23:04 |
| mikhas | hands-on and everything | 23:05 |
| pupnik_ | id like to get the best independent game maintainers there | 23:05 |
| lcuk | mikhas, i would imagine having more time for constructive group sessions would be feasible | 23:05 |
| mikhas | oh yeah | 23:05 |
| mikhas | no slides | 23:05 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, :) indeed | 23:05 |
| mikhas | =) | 23:05 |
| lcuk | slides are important to some subjects | 23:05 |
| lcuk | but agreed, not all | 23:05 |
| mikhas | well yes, but you know what I mean | 23:05 |
| lcuk | mostly we have video out | 23:05 |
| mikhas | this could happen before the event | 23:05 |
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| mikhas | I wouldnt mind having to *prepare* for the workgroups | 23:06 |
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| * qgilN900 presses Thanks button for Stskeeps | 23:07 | |
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| pupnik_ | some wonderful folks here in freenode game channels - couldnt begin to list them | 23:08 |
| mikhas | game devs, good point actually. dont they all have their own little frameworks/engines? perhaps one could have an engine shoot-out | 23:08 |
| pupnik_ | a lot are using sdl and opengl | 23:08 |
| RST38h | mikhas: SDL+OpenGL | 23:08 |
| RST38h | (and no, I have no idea why you need an engine shoot-out) | 23:09 |
| mikhas | for fun | 23:09 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, ive been mucking about the the opengl es example on the maemo wiki | 23:10 |
| lcuk | runs quite well :) | 23:10 |
| pupnik_ | tcool | 23:11 |
| * pupnik_ gets down to bread baking cheers | 23:11 | |
| mikhas | anyway, graphics programming w/ meego, that could be a nice topic, for some of us | 23:11 |
| thiago_home | is anyone taking notes? | 23:15 |
| bfree | only if you hold the powervr guys passports until they hand over some useful source or docs :-p | 23:15 |
| lcuk | well on the arm devices opengles is the way to go | 23:15 |
| lcuk | theres open examples on the maemo site | 23:16 |
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| VLJ | hi | 23:20 |
| VLJ | CosmoHill: i tried moblin 2.1 with mutter-moblin from trunk | 23:20 |
| bfree | lcuk: not just arm, also gma500. I'm talking about getting hardware 3d support in to Meego (i.e. Free and upstream in Linux and xorg not "vendor extensions") but I'm sure it's not going to happen :-( | 23:20 |
| VLJ | it didnt work with nvidia | 23:20 |
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| VLJ | i'm quite out of solution | 23:26 |
| lcuk | bfree, cool | 23:27 |
| lcuk | i was looking at the differences between gl and gles and from what i can see its easier to start with es | 23:27 |
| lcuk | and have it work on newer desktop cards | 23:28 |
| lcuk | than trying to take desktop gl code and moving it to es | 23:28 |
| thiago_home | GL ES is a subset of GL | 23:29 |
| thiago_home | well, the 2 versions | 23:29 |
| VLJ | and GL 3.0 is a subset of GL 2 too | 23:30 |
| lcuk | it may be a subset | 23:30 |
| lcuk | but es pretty much requires use of shaders | 23:31 |
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| lcuk | you cant take most desktop code without rebuilding the core texturing and stuff as shaders from what i was reading | 23:31 |
| * lcuk felt yucky reading lots of iphone related posts - but they were very informative and have been over these sorts of questions themselves | 23:32 | |
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| VLJ | i'd like meego to work on nvidia card | 23:35 |
| VLJ | on tegra ? | 23:35 |
| thiago_home | Qt does | 23:36 |
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| VLJ | yep but moblin doesnt | 23:37 |
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| thiago_home | well, Qt needs something in between the hardware and itself to run on :-) | 23:38 |
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| lcuk | thiago, you come distinctly from a qt background on this and talk often of its open sourceness, does the security base and bootloader enter your mind in this, ie is just having qt enough or will meego qt apps become a sub group | 23:40 |
| thiago_home | the security is still something we need to see | 23:41 |
| thiago_home | I have no idea what it will be | 23:41 |
| thiago_home | I wasn't told yet | 23:41 |
| * lcuk nods | 23:41 | |
| thiago_home | as for the bootloader, I couldn't care it's not open | 23:42 |
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| thiago_home | it's only about booting | 23:42 |
| thiago_home | most BIOS aren't open either | 23:42 |
| thiago_home | I don't know if the EFI is open | 23:42 |
| lcuk | same here, but if the apps are compatible with qt it shouldnt matter of the bootloader | 23:42 |
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| thiago_home | yes | 23:43 |
| thiago_home | we're working hard so that no one modifies Qt | 23:43 |
| thiago_home | it has to be the stock version | 23:43 |
| lcuk | :) | 23:44 |
| thiago_home | that's the problem with the Community port on the N900 | 23:44 |
| lcuk | yeah i think thats understood now by most | 23:44 |
| * w00t looks mildly confused | 23:44 | |
| thiago_home | my next problem is the UI layer | 23:44 |
| thiago_home | w00t: the community port added APIs and broke BC | 23:45 |
| w00t | thiago_home: are we talking about 4.5, or upcoming 4.6? | 23:46 |
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| thiago_home | 4.5 | 23:46 |
| w00t | right | 23:46 |
| thiago_home | the 4.6 brings back X11 compatibility | 23:46 |
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| w00t | I suppose that a number of the problems introduced were due to time constraints, but yes, they're still problems nonetheless | 23:47 |
| w00t | (it sucks that so often proper goals and product targets are at conflict) | 23:47 |
| thiago_home | yeah | 23:47 |
| w00t | if by UI layer, you mean the whole DUI/Orbit/QML/? trainwreck, yeah.. that's certainly going to *be* a problem I think | 23:48 |
| thiago_home | yes, I meant that | 23:48 |
| thiago_home | I'm working hard to solve that problem | 23:49 |
| w00t | and also smacks a lot of the aforementioned product/platform conflict, btw | 23:49 |
| w00t | that is good to hjear | 23:49 |
| thiago_home | I have been for close to a year now | 23:49 |
| w00t | s/jea/ea/ | 23:49 |
| infobot | w00t meant: that is good to hear | 23:49 |
| w00t | it's worried me for pretty much the whole time I've known about it, so it's good to hear there is 'official' attention on it also :) | 23:49 |
| pupnik_ | do *any* boblin people chat here? | 23:52 |
| pupnik_ | moblin | 23:52 |
| ali1234 | yes | 23:52 |
| w00t | pupnik_: yes, but as I was saying earlier, they're a bit ournumbered, so they tend to get lost in the noise | 23:53 |
| thiago_home | w00t: my answer is QML | 23:55 |
| w00t | thiago_home: that's mine too, really | 23:55 |
| w00t | thiago_home: did CI finish integrating it into master yet? I noticed a lot of mess last week :-) | 23:56 |
| thiago_home | oh, yeah | 23:56 |
| thiago_home | we have only one build failure now | 23:56 |
| thiago_home | the new libtiff fails to compile on Windows CE | 23:57 |
| thiago_home | broken platform with broken C runtime support... | 23:57 |
| w00t | ugh :P | 23:57 |
| thiago_home | even broken Win32 support | 23:57 |
| w00t | yeah | 23:57 |
| thiago_home | I fixed Solaris | 23:57 |
| w00t | wince is aptly named :-) | 23:57 |
| w00t | I'll give it a try myself, then, when I get my laptop back from repair | 23:57 |
| thiago_home | compilation running 9h34 now | 23:58 |
| * w00t blinks | 23:58 | |
| w00t | on what hardware? | 23:58 |
| w00t | I mean, I'm hardly top of the line, and I can still do a rebuild in around 40-50 minutes | 23:58 |
| thiago_home | solaris-g++-64-ultrasparc took 7h52, win32-g++ 4.4 Windows XP has just finished (9h31) | 23:59 |
| thiago_home | solaris-g++-ultrasparc is still compiling | 23:59 |
| w00t | heh. | 23:59 |
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| thiago_home | currently building examples/network/torrent. It's got a good full 2h left before it finishes. | 23:59 |
| w00t | oh, actually | 23:59 |
| w00t | that probably explains it | 23:59 |
| w00t | I omit tests and examples | 23:59 |
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