IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Friday, 2012-11-16

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FIQ	ok so I have a strange problem with CSSU installation, HAM first load something, then seems to do nothing. Then after a while, it simply said "Process failed" (might not be exact wording due to localized msg) and there's no icon	01:30
FIQ	I had a very similar issue last time I installed cssu (pretty much first thing I did that time, so no devel unless backupmenu required it, which I've forgot), but then there was an icon	01:31
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: I think you're asking for mime-types	01:33
FIQ	While CSSU seemed to install fine then, any install afterwards of anything reissued the "Please accept these TOU" of cssu-install	01:33
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mime_Types#Using_hildon-mime-open	01:33
FIQ	so basically both of my cssu installations has failed strangely, and both that time and now, it's pretty much clean rootfs	01:34
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ: that for sure needs investigation. Please wait til the knowledgeable people respond	01:37
DocScrutinizer05	particularly merlin1991 (and mohammadAG) might want to have a look.	01:38
FIQ	I have used apt to install a few packages from extras+extras-devel (the following: bash xchat vgb gpspmgui coreutils-gnu findutils-gnu mlocate unzip) and some from HAM (backupmenu, openssh server+client) and I've changed default to /bin/bash. That's basically everything from factory state to now (might have forgot something, but nothing major)	01:38
FIQ	s/default/default shell/	01:39
infobot	FIQ meant: I have used apt to install a few packages from extras+extras-devel (the following: bash xchat vgb gpspmgui coreutils-gnu findutils-gnu mlocate unzip) and some from HAM (backupmenu, openssh server+client) and I've changed default shell to /bin/bash. That's...	01:39
DocScrutinizer05	oh lol, changed default shell	01:39
merlin1991	FIQ: the cssu enabler mechanism runs a script that was never tested under bash	01:39
FIQ	ohhh	01:39
FIQ	so making /bin/sh default should work?	01:40
FIQ	or has things broken already?	01:40
merlin1991	yeah, though I have nfc in what state you are now thanks to the broken install	01:40
FIQ	hm	01:40
FIQ	merlin1991: that can explain this fail	01:40
FIQ	but not the previous one, which gave strange problems too	01:41
FIQ	and then everything I did was installing backupmenu and making a backup	01:41
FIQ	(from factory state, that is)	01:41
DocScrutinizer05	well, it seems nobody can reproduce this, so far	01:42
FIQ	ok	01:42
FIQ	I'll try to switch shell and try again	01:42
DocScrutinizer05	if you actually can reproduce failure to install CSSU on a factory image ülus BM, we got a new problem	01:42
merlin1991	FIQ: did you get as far as runing the enabler script from the app menu?	01:42
FIQ	merlin1991: no	01:42
FIQ	i got to step 5 on wiki	01:43
FIQ	i.e. adding repo (I think), wait to HAM to do something	01:43
merlin1991	FIQ: ok time to get some info	01:43
* DocScrutinizer05 indly wonders if CSSU repo is broken now too		01:43
merlin1991	please pastebin /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list	01:44
merlin1991	also the output of dpkg -l community-ssu-enabler	01:44
FIQ	not found	01:45
merlin1991	the package or the file?	01:45
DocScrutinizer05	or pastebin?	01:46
FIQ	http://pastebin.com/6caU7zZx is the sources list	01:46
FIQ	merlin1991: the package	01:46
DocScrutinizer05	community-ssu-enabler not installed	01:46
merlin1991	FIQ: ok then you basically only added the repo but did nothing else	01:46
DocScrutinizer05	for some reason HAM blew chunks on installing enabler	01:47
FIQ	DocScrutinizer05: no, No packages found matching community-ssu-enabler.	01:47
merlin1991	well change your shell back to /bin/sh and try again	01:47
FIQ	merlin1991: ok	01:47
merlin1991	so far nothing happened to you system cssu wise :)	01:47
FIQ	ok :å	01:47
FIQ	s/å/p/	01:48
infobot	FIQ meant: ok :p	01:48
DocScrutinizer05	>>HAM first load something, then seems to do nothing. Then after a while, it simply said "Process failed" (might not be exact wording due to localized msg) and there's no icon<< conclusive	01:49
DocScrutinizer05	might even be connection to repo	01:49
DocScrutinizer05	HAM log...	01:50
DocScrutinizer05	or "out of memory"?	01:50
DocScrutinizer05	sth...	01:50
FIQ	ehm	01:50
FIQ	i'm very skeptical to OOM	01:51
FIQ	connection could be the issue	01:51
FIQ	also how are you supposed to know when HAM is done?	01:51
DocScrutinizer05	there are weird checks for available free storage in original HAM	01:51
FIQ	it just sits there, but wiki says that's supposed to happen	01:51
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, that might actually be a bit unfortunate with HAM	01:52
DocScrutinizer05	basically as soon as you can do a new operation in HAM it's supposed to be finished so much that you can close it	01:53
merlin1991	FIQ: yeah you can run top in a terminal	01:53
DocScrutinizer05	afaik	01:53
merlin1991	as long as there is an apt-worker process eating your cpu ham is working :)	01:53
DocScrutinizer05	apt-worker keeps working even when you close HAM	01:53
DocScrutinizer05	so no problem there	01:54
FIQ	good to know	01:54
DocScrutinizer05	(unless our new brilliant HAM kills apt-worker)	01:54
FIQ	also what happens if you attempt to start the process again?	01:55
FIQ	when it's started, that is	01:55
DocScrutinizer05	since it just installs cssu-enabler, there shouldn't be much harm	01:56
FIQ	because IIRC I did that when I tried to install cssu the first time because it stalled	01:56
DocScrutinizer05	usual disclaimer: aiui	01:56
FIQ	as I didn't realize it was normal behaviour for HAM to do apparently nothing but in fact do something	01:57
DocScrutinizer05	merlin1991: could we add a notifier to cssu-enabler post-install?	01:58
FIQ	how long should the process take?	01:59
DocScrutinizer05	HAM?	02:00
FIQ	yes	02:00
DocScrutinizer05	depends on how many repos you got enabled, I guess	02:00
FIQ	woo	02:00
DocScrutinizer05	with extras-devel it usually takes 7 min here	02:00
FIQ	it asked if I wanted to install enabler	02:00
FIQ	it took precisely 7min :p	02:01
FIQ	seemed to work	02:01
DocScrutinizer05	lesson learnt: don't make bash your default shell	02:01
FIQ	I don't like busybox though	02:02
* DocScrutinizer05 neither		02:02
DocScrutinizer05	~jrtools	02:02
infobot	jrtools is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	02:02
DocScrutinizer05	ok, I have to start it by typing `bash` as first command to xterm	02:03
FIQ	maybe I should try to edit .shrc or whatever the equavilence to .bashrc is, and check for PS1 in order to spawn bash on top of it	02:03
FIQ	it's hackish, but i'm lazy	02:03
DocScrutinizer05	~jrtools	02:03
infobot	well, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	02:03
DocScrutinizer05	messybox is sourcing bashrc	02:03
FIQ	so messybox thinks it's bash?	02:04
DocScrutinizer05	you might check if you got an interactive shell or not. But probably that doesn't pan out either, in the end	02:04
FIQ	fair enough, i'll type bash manually	02:04
DocScrutinizer05	some retard maintained thought messybox == bash, yes	02:04
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ: check my nifty PATH joggling	02:05
FIQ	i'd rather not touch busybox, but i guess i'm forced as maemo depend on it	02:05
FIQ	hmm	02:05
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FIQ	you mean placing /usr/bin/gnu first?	02:06
DocScrutinizer05	juggling even	02:06
DocScrutinizer05	yep	02:06
FIQ	I already do that :P	02:06
FIQ	to not have to bother with busybox binary	02:06
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, actually my recent files look different	02:07
FIQ	export PATH="/usr/bin/gnu:"$PATH":$HOME/bin is my path atm	02:08
FIQ	("bin" actually contains shellscripts but whatever)	02:09
DocScrutinizer05	I once got a nifty sed cmdline, but I seem too ill and dizzy to locate it	02:14
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DocScrutinizer05	sorry	02:14
FIQ	also	02:15
FIQ	why does HAM (not only for cssu, but that's one of the things) show "(null) Install anyway?" when installing?	02:15
DocScrutinizer05	dafaq ~user/.bashrc vanished	02:15
FIQ	evil maemo	02:16
DocScrutinizer05	or I'm starting to lose my mind	02:16
MrPingu	Hmm, what I don't like or liked about the bash thingy; as soon you ran sudo gainroot from bash, it returns you to busybox	02:16
FIQ	MrPingu: I just made sudo usable as on linux desktop	02:16
FIQ	by making an own file in sudoers.d	02:16
DocScrutinizer05	well, that's 'normal' since you open a new default shell	02:16
FIQ	"Upgrade for Maemo" guess I'll be afk shortly	02:17
MrPingu	Yes, I know but I don't like it	02:17
MrPingu	I always close xterm by issuing exit	02:17
DocScrutinizer05	if you don't like what the command you invoked is doing, find a better command	02:18
FIQ	.................	02:18
FIQ	That was stupid	02:18
FIQ	HAM closed everything, then proceed to tell me that there wasn't enough battery	02:18
MrPingu	It would mean in the worst case I would have to issue it 4 times :P	02:19
MrPingu	DocScrutinizer05: You got a point there!	02:19
DocScrutinizer05	MrPingu: btw bash for root seems semi-safe	02:19
DocScrutinizer05	while bash for user definitely never been	02:19
FIQ	is there a reason that you shouldn't use "proper sudo"?	02:20
DocScrutinizer05	paradox but true	02:20
DocScrutinizer05	nah, sudo is used all the time, but sudo isn't `root` aka sudo gainroot	02:20
FIQ	i.e. enable yourself to do "sudo (whatever)" instead of logging in as root and do "(whatever)"	02:20
DocScrutinizer05	if you log in via `root` you get root's environment ($HOME etc)	02:21
FIQ	well.. yeah	02:21
MrPingu	semi-safe still don't like that :P For now I stick to busybox, till I hate it so much and can't bear it anymore	02:21
DocScrutinizer05	if you log in via `sudo gainroot` you're still in user's environment	02:22
FIQ	I use sudo as on a desktop, basically	02:22
MrPingu	DocScrutinizer05: Thanks for the passwd for root, love it :)	02:22
FIQ	i.e. no "root" or "sudo gainroot"	02:22
DocScrutinizer05	if you do sudo $somecmd, then you're quite obviously in user's environment still	02:22
FIQ	yes I know	02:23
MrPingu	But sudser fvcks it up	02:23
DocScrutinizer05	sudser is brainfsck	02:23
FIQ	MrPingu: I did it manually	02:23
MrPingu	FIQ: would love to hear how, but I really need to get some sleep now	02:23
MrPingu	Good night!	02:24
DocScrutinizer05	MrPingu: I thought a lot how to make root password more safe. First step: make HAM ask for root password, so nobody can install crap to nuke passwords	02:24
FIQ	made a file in sudoers.d, typed "user ALL = (ALL) ALL" and ran update-sudoers	02:25
DocScrutinizer05	I discussed it with kerio a whole night long	02:25
FIQ	/etc/sudoers.d, that is	02:25
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DocScrutinizer05	FIQ: definitely a poor idea	02:26
DocScrutinizer05	in my book	02:26
FIQ	hmmmm	02:26
FIQ	how so?	02:26
DocScrutinizer05	it defeats the whole idea of root permissions	02:26
FIQ	DocScrutinizer05: maemo is a single user environment	02:27
DocScrutinizer05	you as well could set UID for user to 0	02:27
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ: definitely not	02:27
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DocScrutinizer05	there's users "root", "user", "apt", "ntpd", "dahellknows"....	02:28
FIQ	fair enough, but I don't see the problem	02:28
DocScrutinizer05	not exactly a singleuser system	02:28
FIQ	sudo gainroot gives you root access in user environment	02:29
DocScrutinizer05	so what?	02:29
DocScrutinizer05	sudo gainroot asks for root password on my machine	02:29
FIQ	the above gives you the same, just with letting you to not have to do sudo gainroot before	02:29
FIQ	sudo gainroot also does it w/o password by default, while the above do ask the password, for user	02:30
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ: chmod -R a+rwx /	02:30
FIQ	why would you do that?	02:31
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ: I'm not going to debate with you how to fuck up a fubar concept even more	02:31
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DocScrutinizer05	FIQ: same question to your "user ALL = (ALL) ALL"	02:32
DocScrutinizer05	why would you do that?	02:32
DocScrutinizer05	since chmod -R a+rwx / work much better, by not even requiring a sudo in front of any braindamaged command user may want to nuke system with	02:33
FIQ	DocScrutinizer05: it also gives all other users root	02:33
DocScrutinizer05	either use permissions, the put it to purpose properly, or not use them at all, no?	02:34
DocScrutinizer05	<FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: maemo is a single user environment	02:35
DocScrutinizer05	((<FIQ> DocScrutinizer05: it also gives all other users root)) so what?	02:36
DocScrutinizer05	either you bother about security, or not	02:36
DocScrutinizer05	the most dangerous processes run under user anyway	02:37
DocScrutinizer05	multiuser setup and user separation is for security purposes. Not much sense in neutering it for user	02:38
DocScrutinizer05	even less sense in improving that neutering	02:38
DocScrutinizer05	Nokia fsckd it up by running stuff like HAM under user and not daring to ask for a password when it invokes apt-worker under root	02:39
FIQ	DocScrutinizer05: I'm "user", and last time I checked, I'm the owner of the n900. sudo gainroot gives user full root (without even a password by default), my proposal does it too. The difference is that in one way needs me to first type a command to allow root commands, then a second do what I want, then exit when done with a third command while my line lets you do it with one command	02:39
FIQ	Also, my thing ask for a password. sudo gainroot doesn't	02:40
DocScrutinizer05	meh	02:40
FIQ	Do you disallow root for yourself on your desktop machines too?	02:41
DocScrutinizer05	who the fuck disallows anything?	02:41
DocScrutinizer05	sorry, this exhausts me too much. should stay in bed curing my flu	02:42
FIQ	I don't see the problem here, but I might miss something here, I don't deny it	02:43
DocScrutinizer05	~jrtools	02:43
infobot	somebody said jrtools was http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	02:43
FIQ	(Also chmod 777 is a bad idea for other reasons too, as it screws things up in other ways, but that's irrelevant)	02:44
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ: I missed sth: your setup asks for password - user password though, which is kinda silly ubuntu bullshit, but kinda works for maemo since you can't change your own user password on maemo	02:47
FIQ	[01:41:30] <FIQ> Do you disallow root for yourself on your desktop machines too? -- i.e. you don't give your normal user account full sudo as you think it's bad security principe	02:47
FIQ	oh you thought i had nopasswd?	02:47
DocScrutinizer05	yes, my users never have root access by using their own password	02:48
FIQ	hmm	02:48
DocScrutinizer05	root access should need root password, not user's password	02:48
FIQ	let me think now	02:48
FIQ	changing password can be done on the user's account	02:48
DocScrutinizer05	n8 again	02:48
FIQ	(normally)	02:49
FIQ	so basically asking for user password is like asking for no password at all	02:49
DocScrutinizer05	not as user, under maemo (thanks busybox passwd)	02:49
FIQ	yeah, i said "(normally)"	02:49
DocScrutinizer05	only root can change user's password on maemo	02:49
FIQ	I think I get your point now	02:49
FIQ	though in practice maemo is a joke to get root on due to HAM	02:52
FIQ	but still	02:52
DocScrutinizer05	see my comment several lines above	02:52
FIQ	yeah I saw it	02:52
DocScrutinizer05	actually my comments (plural)	02:52
FIQ	no need to break it more	02:53
DocScrutinizer05	[2012-11-16 01:24:46] <DocScrutinizer05> MrPingu: I thought a lot how to make root password more safe. First step: make HAM ask for root password, so nobody can install crap to nuke passwords	02:53
FIQ	yeah	02:53
FIQ	saw the line	02:53
FIQ	well you've modified HAM in cssu, making that shouldn't be too hard :p	02:54
DocScrutinizer05	if we had a better sudo executable (more recent) we could solve this pretty nicely	02:54
FIQ	also what about the autologin?	02:55
DocScrutinizer05	but yeah, we might fix HAM as well	02:55
FIQ	(on boot, that is)	02:55
DocScrutinizer05	another PITA	02:55
FIQ	it's just "user" but still	02:55
DocScrutinizer05	it should attach PAM to device lockcode and PIN query	02:55
DocScrutinizer05	actually lockcode should be a PAM module	02:56
FIQ	PIN is easy to dodge if you just want to access the system	02:56
DocScrutinizer05	and H-D startup get done by sth like XDM	02:57
FIQ	lockcode or asking for user's password, it is	02:57
FIQ	My previous device asked for lockcode on startup :p	02:58
DocScrutinizer05	honestly they ought have implemented lockcode query into NOLO	02:59
DocScrutinizer05	as well as charging ;-P	03:00
FIQ	shouldn't it be possible to query on boot?	03:00
FIQ	i mean, there's bootmenu, shouldn't be too hard to make a "bootloader" that asks for password before proceeding	03:01
DocScrutinizer05	nah, it will still aloow resueOS and flashing	03:01
DocScrutinizer05	both done by NOLO	03:01
FIQ	well flashing nukes system	03:01
FIQ	like reinstalling the OS on a desktop :p	03:02
DocScrutinizer05	yep, but on desktop you got device password on BIOS level	03:02
DocScrutinizer05	if you want	03:02
DocScrutinizer05	rendering device basically useless for thieves	03:02
DocScrutinizer05	no such thing on N900	03:03
DocScrutinizer05	thanks NOLO (our 'BIOS')	03:03
FIQ	True	03:03
DocScrutinizer05	o/	03:04
FIQ	well as long as the OS isn't open doors, I'm happy, if people really want to get my data, go on and steal my HDD, I'm not that paranoid :3	03:04
FIQ	bye	03:04
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FIQ	(also isn't uboot lowlevel enough?)	03:06
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DocScrutinizer05	uboot comes after NOLO, flashing / rescueOS booting is done in NOLO	03:35
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DocScrutinizer05	actually even NOLO can get coldflashed by a new one that wouldn't ask for password	03:36
DocScrutinizer05	since ROMBOOT allows coldflashing	03:36
FIQ	there we go, CSSU installed	03:37
DocScrutinizer05	but afaik NOLO resp the XLoader header at least needs a signature to get executed by ROMBOOT, so nobody could tamper XLoader	03:37
FIQ	HAM took literally 15min to show update...	03:38
DocScrutinizer05	hmm,	03:38
DocScrutinizer05	terrible	03:38
FIQ	once I booted from new battery	03:38
FIQ	the update itself took 8min	03:38
DocScrutinizer05	but don't worry, updates are less painful	03:38
FIQ	so HAM took less time to do what I actually wanted than it took to show me it, even though it showed me previously	03:39
FIQ	yaay!	03:39
DocScrutinizer05	once the automatic check for updates shows "maemo 5 CSSU update available" it doesn't take forever to show that update in HAM. Then you fire "update that" and forget	03:39
FIQ	i "disabled" the check	03:40
FIQ	so I went manually opening HAM and press update button	03:40
FIQ	that task took 15min	03:40
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, that's when it downloads all repo 'indexes' and builds databese with dependencies	03:41
FIQ	hmmm	03:41
FIQ	can I uninstall these stuff taking up place on my appmenu w/o problems?	03:42
DocScrutinizer05	on my 300MHz 150MB RAM laptop the same procedure in Yast took a day, literally	03:42
FIQ	amazon, ap news, documents to do, facebook, foreca, that is	03:42
DocScrutinizer05	"these stuff"?	03:42
FIQ	sounds.. "fun"	03:43
FIQ	i mentioned which i meant :p	03:43
DocScrutinizer05	yeah sure, apt-get purge	03:43
FIQ	wonder what they're called.. hm	03:43
DocScrutinizer05	apt-cache search	03:43
FIQ	yeah	03:44
FIQ	also your HAM doesn't kill apt-worker on exit	03:44
DocScrutinizer05	first remove the friggin desktop widget though, in desktop edit mode	03:44
FIQ	i don't use the desktop	03:45
FIQ	removed everything etc	03:45
FIQ	blank bg	03:45
FIQ	:p	03:45
DocScrutinizer05	then it's safe to apt-get purge that crap	03:45
DocScrutinizer05	(though foreca isn't that bad, I actually use it)	03:46
FIQ	argh didn't found the name for documents to go stuff	03:48
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, sorry can't look it up here anymore ;-)	03:49
DocScrutinizer05	or maybe I can?	03:49
FIQ	found it	03:50
FIQ	"dtg-installer"	03:50
DocScrutinizer05	dtg-installer	03:50
DocScrutinizer05	:-D	03:50
FIQ	what about the er	03:51
FIQ	"Handbook" and the "how to start" entries? :3	03:52
FIQ	or that mahjong game for that matter	03:52
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kerio	DocScrutinizer05: CSSU replacement for foreca-widget!	08:10
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tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: (mime types), no, I mean the code that's responsible for reacting to longpress, drawing the context menu, making it disappear etc	09:07
kerio	gtk, maybe?	09:16
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tadzik	no, it's somewhere above Gtk, I think	10:03
tadzik	What I want to do is to make the context menu not disappear when you stop pressing the screen	10:03
tadzik	so you can actually see what popped out	10:03
tadzik	in Gtk the context menu does not disappear when you cease pressing right mouse button, so I guess that's have to be some hildon shamanism	10:04
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DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: for some reason I sometimes achieve to not close context menu when lifting stylus. I guess it's rather a bug that hits when touchpoint coords move minimally on lifting stylus, rather than an option designed in on purpose	12:33
vi__	It happens when you lift off the very edge of the menu perimeter.	12:37
vi__	I believe the relevent code is in hildon-home.	12:37
tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: indeed, it is possible	12:37
tadzik	then that's a bug worth fixing, imho	12:38
tadzik	(and will probably turn out to be a PITA)	12:42
DocScrutinizer05	nah, the fix should be 'easy': just don't close the menu when pen-up event happens outside of menu area, no matter if coords moved away from pen-down coords or not	13:01
DocScrutinizer05	actually it seems to me this is indeed a function that has to be coded in on purpose. Probably just needs commenting out	13:02
DocScrutinizer05	if you wanna do a real fix, then check for distance between pen-down and pen-up event and close menu only when distance is >threshold	13:04
DocScrutinizer05	maybe, just maybe, there's already such check for distance, and somebody simply set a fsckng low threshold	13:05
tadzik	possibly	13:05
kerio	the context menu does indeed disappear if you right-click-and-hold and then release the right mouse button	13:05
tadzik	I'll have to locate the code first; will look more after $dayjob	13:05
kerio	iirc	13:06
tadzik	not unles you move it over some menu item	13:07
tadzik	if you click, hold, drag away it stays	13:07
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vi__	kerio: That implies it is a bug that is a result of the emulated push+hold right click.	13:31
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DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: ((if you click, hold, drag away it stays)) unlike on touchscreen where it vanishes if you dare to drag	14:32
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: which is a bit strange	14:32
tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: yeah. I was talking about desktop gtk	14:33
tadzik	in hildon that's strange and annoying imho	14:33
tadzik	but for example Opera got it right on maemo	14:33
DocScrutinizer05	(the absolute contrary behavior between mouse RMB and stylus longtouch)	14:33
DocScrutinizer05	also I find anchor of context menu got chosen rather unfortunate (menu appears to right of touchpoint, so you basically always cover it with stylus/finger)	14:35
tadzik	true	14:35
tadzik	room for improvement! \o/	14:36
DocScrutinizer05	what a fool chosen those parameters?	14:36
DocScrutinizer05	obviously somebody who tested on PC screen in emulator	14:36
DocScrutinizer05	with mouse	14:36
tadzik	entire maemo feels this way for me	14:36
tadzik	well, almost	14:37
tadzik	it's not quite utilizing the potential in a touchscreen interface	14:37
kerio	nah	14:37
tadzik	like the status area. Clicking small stuff with mouse is fine. Clicking small stuff with big finger is tricky	14:37
tadzik	call me blasphemer, but I think android does it right :)	14:38
tadzik	this particular thing	14:38
tadzik	although n900 does not have much space above screen, so it may not be such a good idea	14:38
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: obviously someone who was left handed...	14:39
DocScrutinizer05	I'm using fingernail. I actually love the smaller touchareas in fremantle, compared to finger-only GUI design of e.g. harmattan	14:39
vi__	A WITCH!	14:39
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: yep, or lefthanded	14:40
DocScrutinizer05	but then that guy ought have forced a "lefthand/righthand" user setting option into fremantle screen settings	14:41
DocScrutinizer05	after all at least that guy should be aware of the problems of the other part of mankind that doesn't use same hand as the rest	14:42
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: he did that on purpose	14:42
DocScrutinizer05	revenge	14:42
kerio	to inflict vengeance to every right-handed person on the planet!	14:42
kerio	s/on the planet/that happened to be using a n900, so very few people/	14:42
infobot	kerio meant: to inflict vengeance to every right-handed person that happened to be using a n900, so very few people!	14:42
DocScrutinizer05	actually this is a pretty good filed and opportunity for a mad useful improvement in CSSU	14:43
DocScrutinizer05	field*	14:43
DocScrutinizer05	arcean: ^^^	14:44
DocScrutinizer05	arcean: last ~150 lines	14:44
DocScrutinizer05	arcean: in short: implement (or check if already there) a threshold for drag after stylus-down, to make context menu close. Do not close when threshold distance isn't exceeded. and create a config option to change anchor point of context menu to arbitrary of 4 corners	14:46
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Linger	Good morning	19:17
Linger	I'm a fellow with some fairly easy technical questions.	19:19
Linger	Questions regarding IRC.	19:19
wmarone	ask, don't wait	19:20
Linger	Ok, thank you. I'm an Aussie. I have not been on IRC for 10 years. Where would I go do talk to Aussies?	19:20
DocScrutinizer05	not on freenode. channels on freenode are technical topics, not geographical	19:21
Linger	I'm 26. Used to me on IRC a lot when I was a teen. But I lost interest for a while.	19:21
wmarone	well that's not a technical question	19:21
Linger	Fair point	19:22
DocScrutinizer05	we got some aussies in every maemo related channel	19:22
Linger	Well I would be happy to ask a technical question, as I have an InfoSec background	19:22
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kerio	Linger: did you just stumble upon #maemo-ssu?	19:23
Linger	Truth is, it's Friday night here in Aus. I've had a few beers. I'm looking for some interesting discussion before I crash.	19:23
Linger	Yes I did	19:23
kerio	this is a channel dedicated to a community project for a niche OS for niche smartphones	19:24
Linger	However I'd be more than happy to leave you gents alone. I just don't know where the Aussies go on IRC anymore. I've been out of it for a long time.	19:25
Linger	I apologise.	19:25
Linger	I have no intention to take the discussion off topic	19:26
kerio	perhaps you might want to connect to a less-specific irc network?	19:26
Linger	I'm open to suggestions	19:26
Linger	Like I said, I have no idea where to go.	19:27
kerio	\_o_/	19:27
kerio	i have no idea, sorry	19:27
Linger	I'm a somewhat drunk InfoSec fag. Aussie.	19:27
Linger	No problem mate.	19:28
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Linger	Would it be a problem to entertain my somewhat drunken self on this channel for a while?	19:28
Linger	Given that there does not seem to be much else going on.	19:29
kerio	are you kidding me	19:30
Linger	I can ensure my questions are technology based.	19:30
kerio	questions about what	19:30
kerio	there's 53 people here	19:31
kerio	there's probably about 20 times in #linux or whatever	19:31
Linger	And none of them seem to be active.	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	so you're interested in monologues?	19:31
Linger	I've worked as an InfoSec analyst for a while.	19:32
DocScrutinizer05	tease us	19:32
Linger	Surely theres some middle ground	19:32
Linger	Monologues to me relates to the English literature definition.	19:33
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: he's annoying and off-topic - but then again, there's not really anything else going on, here	19:34
DocScrutinizer05	I'm not yet ready to kick him	19:34
Linger	Fair call.	19:34
DocScrutinizer05	off topic isn't a problem as long as nobody complains	19:35
Linger	Is InfoSec off topic?	19:35
DocScrutinizer05	chances for somebody complaining increase the more the talk is OT though	19:35
DocScrutinizer05	not per se	19:35
kerio	wtf is infosec anyway?	19:35
Linger	Information Security	19:36
Linger	I did InfoSec for a very large company, that you would all know.	19:37
Linger	You cunts are interested in tech issues. I imagine you may have questions	19:37
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: we could make him audit maemo :D	19:38
Linger	This is on topic no?	19:38
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DocScrutinizer05	1. warning: speech	19:38
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DocScrutinizer05	just in case	19:40
Linger	Ask a cunt who was considered one of the three people within the organisation who was considered knowledgeable enough to make judgements on InfoSec issues.	19:41
Linger	ask anything	19:41
Linger	A global organisation. 70,000+ users	19:42
Linger	Is this not intersting?	19:43
Linger	No? I do remember how IRC works. You can reply to me if you like.	19:48
Linger	I have a good job. I have made the most of my IT experience.	19:50
Linger	So what?	19:50
Linger	Kick/Ban me.	19:50
DocScrutinizer05	how to get the root certificate of any security infra (here: the one Nokia implemented with aegis)	19:52
DocScrutinizer05	(you know, for the simple questions we got google and wikipedia nowadays)	19:52
* Lava_Croft strokes his beard		19:53
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Linger	Ok. So I'm a guy who works on security on Pc's. I recently got a new phone. A Samsung S3 $g.	19:56
Linger	Please tell me what issues I way have with this phone.	19:57
Linger	4g	19:57
Linger	rather	19:57
Linger	No?	20:00
Linger	It seems as though IRC is as I remember it.	20:01
Linger	So how long are you neck beards?	20:03
Linger	IRC is where you feel like you have some power	20:04
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: hold on, why am i opped?	20:05
DocScrutinizer05	just in case, since I'm busy	20:05
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Linger	Sd.	20:08
Linger	Sad	20:08
Linger	And then what?	20:09
Linger	Cook some bacon and eggs	20:11
kerio	Linger: you're being annoying	20:11
kerio	stop or leave	20:11
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kerio	hm	20:13
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freemangordon	merlin1991: ping	21:16
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merlin1991	freemangordon: pong	21:33
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freemangordon	merlin1991: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1295049&postcount=59	22:13
freemangordon	tklock leaks like mad :(	22:14
freemangordon	I need an advise and/or help what to do	22:14
merlin1991	let's start easy for me, what is tklock?	22:15
freemangordon	swipe-to-unlock thingie	22:15
arcean	oh nooo	22:15
freemangordon	arcean: yes :(	22:15
freemangordon	try it	22:15
arcean	looks like everything with 'systemui' in a name leaks	22:16
freemangordon	yes	22:16
merlin1991	freemangordon: does it need anything special on device to start leaking like mad?	22:16
freemangordon	nothing afaik	22:16
freemangordon	well, didn't tested on stock, only on -thumb	22:16
freemangordon	but that should be irrelevant	22:16
merlin1991	anything special to test that?	22:16
freemangordon	nothing	22:16
* merlin1991 does not even know how to get per process ram on linux :$		22:17
freemangordon	check /proc/`pidof systemui`/smaps	22:17
freemangordon	[heap] section	22:17
freemangordon	it leaks about 16k on unlock	22:17
freemangordon	now, the real problem is that there is no x86 binary	22:18
freemangordon	and I am just not good enough with GTK to rewrite it	22:18
merlin1991	is the smaps output a huge thing?	22:19
merlin1991	for me it goes over the xterm backsroll buffer	22:19
freemangordon	cat /proc/`pidof systemui`/smaps \| more	22:19
freemangordon	it is the 3rd thing	22:19
freemangordon	BTW that leak is without any sms-es, mails, etc	22:20
freemangordon	didn't check what happens if there is some icon on unlock screen	22:20
merlin1991	hm it happily stays @ 1296kb here after an unlock (stock device)	22:22
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merlin1991	leaks only from time to time, not always	22:24
freemangordon	yeah, in chunks of 48k	22:24
merlin1991	I managed todo some 3 unlocks without an increase in heap size	22:24
freemangordon	or something	22:24
freemangordon	yep 48k/3 unlocks	22:24
kerio	dafuq, osso-systemui-tklock can be uninstalled	22:24
merlin1991	/proc/something should be live right?	22:25
merlin1991	kerio: obviously	22:25
kerio	will shit break if i do?	22:25
merlin1991	it was only hold by the old @nokia metapackge	22:25
merlin1991	kerio: nfc	22:25
kerio	ok, i have to make a backup anyway	22:25
freemangordon	well, it is usefull for those of us who don't have cases	22:25
merlin1991	freemangordon: yep it definitely leaks when you use the slider	22:26
freemangordon	merlin1991: yeah, I know :(	22:26
merlin1991	arcean: what else with systemui did leak?	22:27
freemangordon	btw the first time you use it (after reboot) heap usage jumps from 700k to 1400k	22:27
merlin1991	freemangordon: that's probably a gtkpixbuf for the backgroundimage	22:27
freemangordon	so, not only it leaks, it seems to keep the background in memory	22:27
kerio	merlin1991: 700kb for a 800x480 bitmap?	22:27
arcean	merlin1991: osso-systemui-alarm :P	22:27
freemangordon	merlin1991: exactly my thoughts	22:27
freemangordon	arcean: well, that should be ok now, check the latest commits	22:28
merlin1991	kerio: do the maths, 3 byte each pixel	22:28
freemangordon	and that's pretty instane	22:28
kerio	hm	22:28
kerio	that's about 1mb	22:28
freemangordon	yeah	22:28
merlin1991	yeah	22:28
kerio	neat!	22:29
freemangordon	of memory which gets lost	22:29
freemangordon	effectively	22:29
Woody14619	Actually... IT shouldn't, as it reloads it on re-lock anyway...	22:29
freemangordon	most probably it does not reload it	22:29
Woody14619	I say, having written a script that updates the screen, so I know it in fact does.	22:29
merlin1991	freemangordon: or it reuses the same pixbuffer and loads a new image into it ;)	22:30
freemangordon	well, no idea what it does, but it is a piece of crap	22:30
freemangordon	merlin1991: could be	22:30
Woody14619	merlin1991: That may be to.. It's a fixed-size picture.	22:30
Woody14619	I wonder which is worse? Having the pages allocated, or freeing an allocing each time, causing fragmentation?	22:31
merlin1991	well I see a point in keeping the pixbuf around, but the leak is definitely a nogo	22:31
freemangordon	Woody14619: if you have pages allocated and DON'T LEAK makes sense	22:32
kerio	just keep dat shit on the stack	22:32
* Woody14619 nods		22:32
kerio	or, better, uninstall it	22:32
freemangordon	though if I am to write such a think, i'll free the pixbuf when not needed	22:33
freemangordon	*thing	22:33
merlin1991	freemangordon: well in this case the probably had a minimal delay till displayed requirement	22:33
merlin1991	and loading the image into memory produces "some" delay, especially when the phone does something else at the time the user hits the button	22:34
freemangordon	merlin1991: agree, makes sense	22:34
freemangordon	though by the time you need it, there is a very high probability it was already swapped ;)	22:35
merlin1991	also "grep -A 9 heap /proc/`pgrep systemui`/smaps" is way more readable than the huge output to more :D	22:35
freemangordon	:D	22:35
freemangordon	now, we have a couple of options here:	22:36
merlin1991	theoretically swapping back in has better performance than reading from the the disc ;), plus you still get read of the alloc	22:36
freemangordon	merlin1991: in case swap and fs does not clash :P	22:37
freemangordon	the options:	22:37
freemangordon	1. RE	22:37
freemangordon	that will be the harest way as there is no x86 binary	22:37
freemangordon	2. rewrite	22:37
merlin1991	hm I'd try to snoop the interfaces and rewrite	22:37
kerio	hahaha	22:37
kerio	i uninstalled osso-systemui-tklock	22:37
freemangordon	merlin1991: we have the interfaces	22:38
merlin1991	but the sms stuff probably is odd todo	22:38
merlin1991	also for the inlays such as missed calls, msgs and whatnot?	22:38
DocScrutinizer05	haha, now I see why I get uptimes of weeks while others suffer from swap fragmentation and low memory after 3..5 days - I never use that tklock screen	22:38
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: first time we have a valid reason (even in your book) to replace a closed component :D	22:38
kerio	i can't lock my screen	22:39
DocScrutinizer05	yes, definitely	22:39
kerio	this was fun :D	22:39
kerio	should i try reinstalling it, or should i just restore the backup?	22:39
merlin1991	kerio: what happens if you hit the powerbutton and press the lock screen button?	22:39
freemangordon	well, according to IDA tklock uses stuff like sqlite3_exec :)	22:39
merlin1991	uh	22:39
kerio	merlin1991: the powerkey menu disappears and nothing happens	22:39
merlin1991	kerio: well reinstall is probably enough	22:40
DocScrutinizer05	dafaq wut? sqlite3? in tklock?	22:40
freemangordon	yeah	22:40
DocScrutinizer05	are they mad now?	22:40
merlin1991	probably for the sms db	22:40
merlin1991	just my wild guess	22:40
freemangordon	gouys, just do apt-cache show osso-systemui-tklock on your devices ;)	22:40
freemangordon	merlin1991: yeah, most probably	22:41
freemangordon	*guys	22:41
freemangordon	look at the maintainer fueld :P	22:41
freemangordon	*field	22:41
freemangordon	as kerio pointed, there is ext- part	22:42
merlin1991	kerio: the pkg has no install scripts and just provides a lib so installing should be all you need	22:42
freemangordon	(besides the maintainer is she)	22:42
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: hm?	22:42
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, ext- part	22:42
freemangordon	seems like it is not written by nokia, but some third party	22:42
merlin1991	freemangordon: should I contact her?	22:42
DocScrutinizer05	sure	22:42
freemangordon	merlin1991: yeah, lets try	22:42
DocScrutinizer05	many things are outsourced	22:43
merlin1991	freemangordon: I guess the best attempt would be to ask for some information in order to write a replacement	22:43
DocScrutinizer05	that's one of main reasons not to open source stuff	22:43
freemangordon	merlin1991: hmm, what info do you need?	22:43
DocScrutinizer05	Nokia doesn't hold (C)	22:43
merlin1991	freemangordon: well I'm most probably not going to rewrite it ;)	22:44
freemangordon	toldya, we have almost everything we need to write systemui plugins	22:44
freemangordon	if not everything	22:44
merlin1991	hm why contact then?	22:44
freemangordon	ask for the source code :P	22:44
merlin1991	we can't possibly get a sourcedump unless she can get her and nokias legal department to relicense the fun	22:44
freemangordon	forget that	22:45
freemangordon	no way to happen	22:45
merlin1991	and I'm not going to push some under the hand source dump to the cssu repo	22:45
freemangordon	merlin1991: ok, i'll push it :P	22:45
freemangordon	just give it to me :D	22:46
merlin1991	btw freemangordon where are the docs on what we know about systemui plugins?	22:46
freemangordon	merlin1991: no docs afaik	22:46
freemangordon	well, there is some systemui-dev package	22:46
merlin1991	that's kinda something I miss about all the re work around maemo, nobody ever documents his findings for others	22:46
freemangordon	with only docs in it, didn't look what exactly is written there	22:47
DocScrutinizer05	merlin1991: +1	22:47
kerio	dafuq, what's that new osso-systemui-alarm?	22:47
kerio	freemangordon: !	22:47
kerio	freemangordon: !!!	22:47
kerio	freemangordon: ^_^	22:47
arcean	kerio: fixed memory leaks :P I hope ;]	22:48
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freemangordon	kerio: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/osso-systemui-alarm/commit/373fbcaaafdedee51744a1b696814fa6555a7670	22:48
kerio	freemangordon: yay	22:49
freemangordon	merlin1991: yes, you are right re documentation	22:49
freemangordon	on the other hand it is still WIP. alarmui that is	22:49
freemangordon	merlin1991: i can do tklock replacement skeleton, but can't do the GTK part	22:52
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freemangordon	on the other hand... can we use Qt?	22:52
kerio	don't do the gtk part	22:52
merlin1991	freemangordon: nah	22:52
freemangordon	reason?	22:52
merlin1991	afaik gtk is in memory all the time	22:53
freemangordon	so? only needed Qt pages will be in memory	22:53
DocScrutinizer05	don't use qt for system stuff	22:53
freemangordon	ok, ok	22:54
DocScrutinizer05	my 2 cents	22:54
freemangordon	I know you are right, was just hoping... :D	22:54
merlin1991	yeah qt is nice to write :)	22:54
merlin1991	looks a billion times better when you look at the source compared to gtk for me	22:54
freemangordon	though... shortcutd anyone?	22:54
merlin1991	hm?	22:55
* DocScrutinizer05 waves and hopes for a break		22:55
freemangordon	it is written in Qt	22:55
merlin1991	well mags lock screen overlay is written in qt aswell	22:55
freemangordon	arcean	22:55
freemangordon	?	22:55
DocScrutinizer05	those are no system replacement stuff though	22:55
freemangordon	wanna do it?	22:56
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: :nod:	22:56
DocScrutinizer05	aiui on my stock n900 there's no qt installed at all	22:56
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: yep	22:56
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: no way	22:56
merlin1991	but cssu always ships qt	22:56
freemangordon	afaik	22:56
DocScrutinizer05	o/	22:57
DocScrutinizer05	--->dinner	22:57
freemangordon	too bad nicolai is no longer interested much in CSSU	22:57
merlin1991	ah wait pr1.3 depends on qt	22:57
freemangordon	MohammadAG ???	22:57
freemangordon	MohammadAG: ping	22:57
merlin1991	but I do remember a time where I had to install qt on maemo in order to run some qt things	22:58
merlin1991	must have been 1.1	22:58
DocScrutinizer05	well, since then they fixed their dependencies ;-P	22:58
freemangordon	yeah, but >=PR12 ships Qt with it	22:58
DocScrutinizer05	publish a call for GTK-devels	22:59
freemangordon	merlin1991: yeah ^^^	23:00
DocScrutinizer05	there have to be 1 or 2 left over	23:00
arcean	DocScrutinizer05: re context menu: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtkmenu.c#line3175	23:04
freemangordon	arcean: i owe you a beer. Or whatever you like to drink	23:04
arcean	it's already implemented, but treshold value is low	23:04
freemangordon	this is the next thing in maemo after the alarmui (stock) I hate :)	23:05
arcean	freemangordon: uhm why :D ?	23:05
freemangordon	context menu	23:05
freemangordon	the way it appears	23:05
arcean	yup, it's broken by design (tm) :)	23:06
DocScrutinizer05	arcean: g_object_get (gtk_widget_get_settings (widget), 3167 "gtk-dnd-drag-threshold", &threshold, 3168 NULL); <--what does that mean?	23:06
arcean	developer can change the treshold value in the application's code	23:07
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DocScrutinizer05	err what? it's for fetching a hardcoded constant?	23:08
DocScrutinizer05	not a gconf key maybe?	23:09
freemangordon_	The fuck, power outage. What's going on with that recently :-(	23:09
arcean	DocScrutinizer05: no, it's read/write property	23:09
freemangordon_	Object property	23:09
DocScrutinizer05	sorry, nfc. gibberish to me	23:09
DocScrutinizer05	anyway this should be a gconf key	23:10
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DocScrutinizer05	maybe not at this location, maybe somewhere in init	23:11
DocScrutinizer05	http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtkmenu.c#line3140	23:11
arcean	so the developer can overwrite our default value, it makes sense :)	23:11
freemangordon_	arcean: so the default is bad?	23:12
arcean	if you move slightly your finger, the context menu will disappear or even won't show	23:13
freemangordon_	Yeah, we all know that :-D	23:14
arcean	maybe it's ok with stylus but for sure not with finger	23:14
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freemangordon_	Hmm, still no power, wtf has happened?	23:15
arcean	heh, the default value is 8 pixels	23:17
DocScrutinizer05	arcean: the question is: can we fix it? preferably in a way so threshold is a gconf key (or otherwise user configurable)?	23:17
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DocScrutinizer05	arcean: aiui replacing #3166 by a call to read a gconf key should already work	23:19
DocScrutinizer05	s/work/suffice/	23:20
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: arcean: aiui replacing #3166 by a call to read a gconf key should already suffice	23:20
arcean	I'll check	23:21
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, for anchor I found http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtkmenu.c#line2995 so far. will be fun to find where coords to show that popup menu are set	23:23
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DocScrutinizer05	hmmm http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtkmenu.c#line2914	23:26
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DocScrutinizer05	or rather here: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtkmenu.c#line2947 ?	23:27
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DocScrutinizer05	http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtkmenu.c#line2923	23:28
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DocScrutinizer05	aiui that's for showing menu either above or below touchpoint?	23:29
arcean	the gconf-library depends on gtk, so it's a bit problematic	23:30
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, when I click in lower right corner of screen, then popup menu will show to the upper left of touchpoint. So it's already all there, just conditions for picking one or the other are crap	23:32
freemangordon	arcean: afaik those properties have default values	23:32
arcean	freemangordon: yes, and it's 8pix by default	23:33
freemangordon	WTF?	23:33
freemangordon	well, lets change that to 128 or something. Problem solved	23:33
arcean	http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtksettings.c#line331	23:33
DocScrutinizer05	arcean: why is gconf-lib depends gtk a problem?	23:34
DocScrutinizer05	isn't that gtk we're looking at ?	23:34
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DocScrutinizer05	arcean: I just can't believe all that stuff in line 331 and before is just a nice way to write a comment. There has to be some function and meaning behind all this	23:36
DocScrutinizer05	I.E. a way to change the value from default set there	23:36
arcean	DocScrutinizer05: we can change the default value to the another, hardcoded one	23:37
DocScrutinizer05	like hildon-desktop --gtk-dnd-drag-threshold=65	23:37
DocScrutinizer05	nobody would create sucha structure with comment and all, just to read "8" at another point in code	23:38
DocScrutinizer05	g_param_spec_int sounds pretty much like "specify parameter" to me	23:39
DocScrutinizer05	parameter in turn makes my think about commandline parameters or configfile parameters	23:39
DocScrutinizer05	and G_MAXINT is probably the upper limit allowable for that parameter. Who's going to check that, when, and where?	23:41
DocScrutinizer05	http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtksettings.c#line44	23:43
DocScrutinizer05	particularly GTK_SETTINGS_SOURCE_RC_FILE	23:44
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DocScrutinizer05	I'd suspect sth like this whole crap looking for /etc/gtk/filemanager.rc and in there for a line gtk-dnd-drag-threshold=120	23:45
* DocScrutinizer05 maybe should ask rasterman, he should know a bit about gtk afaik		23:47
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: not that I am much in GTK, but it most probably looks in the current theme	23:48
DocScrutinizer05	or just scrutinize that code a tad longer, and find out where else GTK_SETTINGS_SOURCE_RC_FILE is used	23:48
DocScrutinizer05	theme, YEAH	23:48
DocScrutinizer05	sounds about right	23:48
freemangordon	"/usr/share/themes/alpha/..." or whatever the path was	23:49
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: look at http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtksettings.c#line44 please. What's the ideas that gives you?	23:50
DocScrutinizer05	http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtksettings.c#line194 hmm	23:52
freemangordon	I am too tired right now to grok that	23:52
arcean	hmm, gtk-dnd-drag-threshold is defined in my gtkrc file	23:52
freemangordon	well, default should come from the theme	23:52
freemangordon	arcean: and what is the value?	23:53
DocScrutinizer05	http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtksettings.c#line533	23:53
arcean	freemangordon: 30pix	23:53
arcean	default theme	23:53
freemangordon	does not seem used	23:54
freemangordon	so it could be in a rogn section or something	23:54
freemangordon	*wrong	23:54
DocScrutinizer05	arcean: where's that file? (path)	23:54
arcean	DocScrutinizer05: /usr/share/themes/default/gtk-2.0	23:55
DocScrutinizer05	thnaks	23:55
freemangordon	arcean: no matter what, we should change the default	23:55
freemangordon	anyway, I need some sleep	23:58
freemangordon	night	23:58

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