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| merlin1991 | 3rd party c# api devs should be killed on the spot | 00:52 |
|---|---|---|
| merlin1991 | I got an OutOfMemory Exception when calling some stuff | 00:52 |
| merlin1991 | guess what I have 5 gigs of free ram, It's actually a nullpointerexception ! | 00:53 |
| * merlin1991 headdesks | 00:53 | |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, you are right. by default maemo using 192.168.2.15 and 192.168.2.14 ip addresses for USB network | 01:07 |
| Pali | but if somebody change it in /etc/network/intterfaces and maybe disable route, we need to calculate second ip addr somehow... | 01:08 |
| Pali | merlin1991 ^^^ | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thought as much | 01:09 |
| merlin1991 | Pali: we should add an option to run a dhc client on the usb connection instead though | 01:10 |
| merlin1991 | s/dhc/dhcp/ | 01:11 |
| infobot | merlin1991 meant: Pali: we should add an option to run a dhcp client on the usb connection instead though | 01:11 |
| Pali | merlin1991, this can be configured by some icd2 plugin | 01:11 |
| merlin1991 | but the script would run regardless | 01:11 |
| Pali | but adding also configuration should be usefull (to have all at one place) | 01:12 |
| merlin1991 | you mean ip gw and whatnot? | 01:12 |
| Pali | that option to run udhcpc instead ifup | 01:14 |
| Pali | hm, I think that /etc/network/interfaces support udhcpc client | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | YAY THAT took a WHILE... I wondered why this shell expansion magic looked fishy | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | now I figure it might've been because of IPv6 | 01:15 |
| Pali | and if you call ifup usb0 it look at interfaces and run needed comamnds... | 01:15 |
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| luf | Hmmm, the really only supported network in bluez-4.99 is NAP :( I don't see why. I'll try to see into git if there is some comment on it. | 09:39 |
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| kerio | luf: ohai | 10:04 |
| luf | kerio: I red the specification and I see no reason to support the others. PANU is the client side and GN isn't very reasonable. | 10:08 |
| kerio | makes sense | 10:08 |
| kerio | can two NAP connect together, tho? | 10:08 |
| luf | No. One have to be PANU ;) | 10:08 |
| luf | http://www.bluetooth.org/Building/HowTechnologyWorks/ProfilesAndProtocols/PAN.htm | 10:09 |
| kerio | so... | 10:09 |
| luf | So PANU can be initalized using pand. | 10:09 |
| kerio | NAP too | 10:10 |
| luf | But it's not necessary to run another daemon when bluez supported it. | 10:14 |
| kerio | i still have no idea of what os x wants to be able to click "connect" on the bluetooth PAN ui | 10:15 |
| luf | But I'll take a look if PANU can be supported as client side in bluez. | 10:15 |
| luf | It's not on top of my TODO to be honest. | 10:16 |
| luf | kerio: let's use apple support ;) | 10:17 |
| kerio | hahaha yeah right | 10:18 |
| kerio | "ok, tap the home button, go to settings and then internet tethering..." | 10:18 |
| kerio | "i don't have an iphone" "BLASPHEMER!" | 10:18 |
| luf | kerio: it sounds like enabling the NAP. | 10:19 |
| kerio | but i did D: | 10:19 |
| kerio | luf: anyway, brctl addbr pan0, then the dbus call to org.bluez.networkserver to enable NAP on pan0, right? | 10:20 |
| luf | No. | 10:20 |
| kerio | D: | 10:20 |
| luf | Yes. Sorry. | 10:21 |
| kerio | k | 10:21 |
| luf | You're right. I used another bridge name. | 10:21 |
| luf | The connection are using bnep | 10:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 yawns | 10:21 | |
| luf | Then you also need to ifconfig to up the bridge interface with some IP. | 10:22 |
| luf | kerio: I know it's not good but I try to make a patch to support this without bridge :) | 10:23 |
| kerio | nah, it's fine | 10:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | where's the headline of all this that gets me excited? | 10:24 |
| kerio | luf: hm, there's no SDP either | 10:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ | 10:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not THAT excited, please! | 10:25 |
| luf | kerio: strange. I have no problem with it. | 10:26 |
| luf | dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=org.bluez /org/bluez/$(pidof bluetoothd)/hci0 org.bluez.NetworkServer.Register string:nap string:pan0 | 10:26 |
| luf | kerio: any log entry? | 10:27 |
| kerio | the problem is on osx's side only | 10:28 |
| kerio | it's just "connection" and then "disconnection" | 10:28 |
| luf | kerio: pand --connect from os x side? | 10:28 |
| kerio | os x doesn't use bluez | 10:28 |
| kerio | i wish it was that easy :) | 10:29 |
| luf | kerio: did you pair the phone and mac when PAN is enabled on N900? | 10:34 |
| kerio | yes | 10:34 |
| luf | kerio: http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20070327142723231 it sounds easy :D | 10:37 |
| freemangordon | 10:21 <luf> kerio: I know it's not good but I try to make a patch to support this without bridge :) | 10:42 |
| freemangordon | either that or help to bring a kernel in CSSU | 10:43 |
| luf | freemangordon: I know. That's the reason I made a patch. | 10:43 |
| luf | And the patch is working ... | 10:44 |
| luf | freemangordon: I also have the kernel-module-bridge on my TODO ... | 10:45 |
| freemangordon | naah, not another module ouside of the kernel | 10:46 |
| freemangordon | see what happens with fcam and similar | 10:47 |
| luf | freemangordon: I don't understand. You mean to recompile the kernel with the module support? | 10:48 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: maybe we should reconsider libc fallback strategy for pselect/ppoll | 10:48 |
| freemangordon | luf: we don't need another package containing kernel module for a specific kernel version | 10:48 |
| luf | freemangordon: ok now I also understand the second part of condition (after or) :D | 10:49 |
| freemangordon | :D | 10:50 |
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| luf | freemangordon: how can I help with kernel in CSSU? | 11:34 |
| freemangordon | luf: implement what zeq was supposed to do in glibc | 11:34 |
| freemangordon | ppoll/pselect fallback path when there is no kernel support for ppoll/pseslect | 11:35 |
| luf | :) | 11:36 |
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| luf | Is here some volunteer who wants write wiki pages about experimental things instead of me? :) | 11:39 |
| freemangordon | luf: you'd better ask that on TMO | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: what's the problem with the fallback strategy? | 11:50 |
| freemangordon | noone to implement it :D | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how hard could that be? | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like 10 c scrlines to me | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh yeah, we had that nifty optimal way to do it, by changing the jump table addr | 11:53 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, but zeq is mia again, and I am just too overprojected | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, we could go for a simplified stategy that's "terribly" suboptimal for the fallback case, but way simpler to implement | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | using a static boolean and a if then else in the routine | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or "local" static function pointer | 11:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which works kinda same like a boolean plus if-then-else | 11:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | such local static *function should be implementable with no more than 30 lines of code, var declarations and init code included | 11:57 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm, I am going to bit the bullet and clone glibc. I hate semi-finished stuff more than you do | 12:05 |
| freemangordon | *bite | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: :-) | 12:07 |
| kerio | freemangordon: =D | 12:08 |
| kerio | i won't be able to test it this weekend, tho | 12:08 |
| freemangordon | kerio: it won;t be ready this weeken tho :P | 12:08 |
| kerio | then it's all good | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: one tiny request: add a logger line to indicate when fallback kicks in | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one-shot of course | 12:09 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ok | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks | 12:10 |
| freemangordon | makes sense | 12:10 |
| freemangordon | though I am not sure where i should log that, having in mind the boot stage glibc is first loaded ;) | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe rrrright | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I guess a call to logger will handle that | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme check back | 12:11 |
| freemangordon | maybe a better idea will be to add an additional line to /lib/libc6.so output | 12:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, logger(1), uses syslog(3) | 12:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I thought there'd be a logger(3) call | 12:12 |
| freemangordon | so it will be possible to get if we are in fallback mode (and log that) later, when there is syslog available | 12:13 |
| freemangordon | the other option is to check if kernel exposes to userland interface to printk | 12:13 |
| freemangordon | anyway, will check the possibilities | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc what happens when a process is calling syslog(3) on a system without syslogd running | 12:14 |
| freemangordon | me neither | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I used to believe it'll log to dmesg ringbuffer then, but obviously that's incorrect assumption | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otoh writing to /dev/log(?) will not automatically propagate to syslogd ? | 12:17 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: the only thing that I can bet is working by the time glibc is initially loaded is printk | 12:18 |
| freemangordon | though i will check what preinit does | 12:18 |
| freemangordon | maybe touch /tmp/glbc_fallback will do the job aswell | 12:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh /dev/log is a socket | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: nevermind, I will find a sane way to indicate that we run in fallback mode. I started to like "touch /tmp/glibc_fallback" very much | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey, some idea I had some 10min ago as well, so it can't be that bad if both of us have same idea | 12:24 |
| freemangordon | :) | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but you'd also need a unlink /tmp/glibc_fallback then | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as otherwise it might get sticky, depending on fs of tmp | 12:25 |
| freemangordon | "/tmp" is tmpfs | 12:25 |
| freemangordon | that's for sure (on maemo) | 12:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, ok | 12:26 |
| freemangordon | hmm, though if someone remounts it to have gcc or whatnot running... | 12:26 |
| kerio | just add a new function is_glibc_using_the_pselect_fallback_or_not() | 12:26 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, unlink as well | 12:27 |
| freemangordon | kerio: My self-esteem is not high enough to mess with libc ABI :P | 12:27 |
| freemangordon | or API | 12:28 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: on the other hand... is that really needed | 12:28 |
| freemangordon | you can always call __syscall(...) and check if the kernel supports that or not | 12:29 |
| freemangordon | i.e. instead of messing with glibc, we can have a simple helper binary | 12:29 |
| freemangordon | called later enough in the boot process, when we are sure we have syslg running | 12:30 |
| freemangordon | toldya I am smart :D:D:D | 12:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you can also any time check if that *function == kernel_pselect or *function == glibc_psel_emu | 13:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | adding according function zo glibc API shouldn't break anything aiui | 13:01 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: http://pastebin.com/SWmPpMXc | 15:46 |
| freemangordon | LOL | 15:46 |
| freemangordon | those guys are are saving me a lot of work :D | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | damn, 43 lines | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 15:47 |
| freemangordon | naah, this is what is currently in glibc source | 15:47 |
| freemangordon | i didn;t touch it | 15:47 |
| freemangordon | the point is: | 15:48 |
| freemangordon | if (result == -1 && errno == ENOSYS) | 15:48 |
| freemangordon | result = __generic_ppoll (fds, nfds, timeout, sigmask); | 15:48 |
| freemangordon | the fallback is already there :D:D:D | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, in 43 lines | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though, subtracting whitelines and comments, we might get under 30 | 15:50 |
| jon_y | magic happens in INLINE_SYSCALL? | 15:51 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: this is the code we currently run, what to substract? | 15:57 |
| freemangordon | though you miss the #include at the end | 15:58 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: no magic here | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: nevermind, just kidding | 15:58 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 15:58 |
| freemangordon | so, we just need __NR_ppoll defined and everyone will be happy | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-11-01 10:57:14] <DocScrutinizer05> such local static *function should be implementable with no more than 30 lines of code, var declarations and init code included | 15:59 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok, i've missed that | 15:59 |
| freemangordon | :D | 15:59 |
| jon_y | combine all your vars into a memblob accessed by hard coded offsets :) | 16:00 |
| jon_y | will save you a few lines | 16:00 |
| jon_y | char *blob[256]; .... (int *)(&blob[34]).... | 16:01 |
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| kerio | jon_y: plenty of empty lines there | 16:47 |
| kerio | freemangordon: does that mean that glibc already takes advantage of pselect? | 16:49 |
| kerio | well, pselect/ppoll | 16:49 |
| jon_y | kerio: ? | 16:49 |
| jon_y | what's with the length limit anyway? | 16:49 |
| kerio | jon_y: just a joke :) | 16:49 |
| jon_y | ok | 16:50 |
| jon_y | well, it's not inline, so 30 lines aren't much | 16:50 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: that means that there is no need to patch glibc further | 17:21 |
| freemangordon | it only needs to be build agains the correct kernel headesr | 17:21 |
| freemangordon | *headers | 17:21 |
| kerio | i see | 17:21 |
| kerio | wait, what do you mean built against the correct kernel header? | 17:22 |
| freemangordon | headers from a kernel that implements ppoll/pselect | 17:22 |
| kerio | hm | 17:22 |
| kerio | would it be compatible with the stock kernel afterwards, though? | 17:22 |
| freemangordon | read the backscroll | 17:22 |
| kerio | dude, if i asked it means that i didn't understand that from the backscroll | 17:23 |
| kerio | for all i know it could be a fallback for compile-time | 17:23 |
| kerio | i mean, it's not, but it could be less runtimy | 17:23 |
| freemangordon | it is a runtime fallback | 17:24 |
| kerio | why does it need different kernel headers then? | 17:24 |
| freemangordon | for compile time, to define __NR_ppoll | 17:24 |
| kerio | k | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | this is not defined in stock, as the call is not implemented | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | (not defined afaik) | 17:25 |
| kerio | what kernel headers is the current glibc compiled against, right now? | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | 2.6.17 or something | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | or even older | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: brilliant job! | 17:27 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: which one?!? | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | spotting the right 43 lines in glib | 17:28 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok :D | 17:28 |
| freemangordon | I need o spot those for pselect too | 17:29 |
| freemangordon | *to | 17:29 |
| freemangordon | but that will be after I am back home | 17:29 |
| freemangordon | bye, bbl | 17:29 |
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| luf | freemangordon: why don't you like bridge for BT networking? | 17:47 |
| freemangordon | therei is no bridge in stock kernel | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | luf: ^^^ | 18:18 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: the code for pselect is the same as for ppol | 18:41 |
| freemangordon | *ppoll | 18:42 |
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| freemangordon | guys, I need some advice. I am going to rebuild glibc against kernel headers with ppoll/pselsect support. Now, there are 2 options - I either do install kernel headers in /usr/include or pass directory with kernel headers ti glibc make | 19:01 |
| freemangordon | which one sounds better? | 19:02 |
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| freemangordon | merlin1991: how shall we proceed with glibc in CSSU, it seems glibc does a fallback for ppoll/pselect if the kernel does not support them | 19:18 |
| merlin1991 | test that :) | 19:18 |
| freemangordon | I am buiding a kernel with patch from zeq right now to be able to compile glibc wit ppoll/pselsect support, will test glibc first on kernel with no support of course :D | 19:19 |
| freemangordon | but ly looking at the code the test will pass | 19:20 |
| freemangordon | *by | 19:20 |
| freemangordon | then what? | 19:20 |
| merlin1991 | what does it need @ build time for glibc to build that? | 19:20 |
| freemangordon | kernel headers installed in /usr/include | 19:20 |
| merlin1991 | is it enough to fiddle with the kernel headers a little or do you need full blown ppoll kernel? | 19:21 |
| freemangordon | (of kernel with ppoll/pselect support) | 19:21 |
| freemangordon | well, you need only the headers | 19:21 |
| freemangordon | but in /usr/include | 19:21 |
| freemangordon | and so far the only way that could happen is make install_headers from the kernel build tree | 19:22 |
| freemangordon | (the only way I found) | 19:22 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: make headers_install ARCH=arm INSTALL_HDR_PATH=/usr/include | 19:24 |
| merlin1991 | is there a huge difference in the headers or is it trivial to reproduce by hand? | 19:27 |
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| Pali | freemangordon, can you send me yours patched conversation css? | 19:35 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: sorry, I forgot | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | will do it in a couple of minutes | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: should be trivial, though I didn't check. here is the patch in the kernel http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/sigmask/tif_restore_sigmask-syscalls-arm.patch | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: do a diff? ;-) | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (of kernel-headers) | 19:49 |
| freemangordon | Pali: http://merlin1991.at/~freemangordon/css.zip | 19:50 |
| freemangordon | I hope i didn't missed a file | 19:50 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: i don;t have the original headers anymore | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty poor handling | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a cp -l /usr/include could've saved you some work and options | 19:52 |
| freemangordon | http://pastebin.com/uxJRxxLJ | 19:52 |
| freemangordon | tha patch as < 100 lines | 19:53 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | i'd say <10 | 19:54 |
| freemangordon | this is not the whole patch | 19:54 |
| freemangordon | only headres part | 19:54 |
| freemangordon | *headers | 19:55 |
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| freemangordon | well, new glibc with "stock" kernel-cssu3 boots, lets see if the test binary still hangs | 20:01 |
| freemangordon | thu fuck | 20:08 |
| freemangordon | symbol pselect, version GLIBC_2.4 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference | 20:08 |
| freemangordon | :( | 20:08 |
| freemangordon | WTF? pselect is not exported? | 20:13 |
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| freemangordon | I am stupid, I installed kernel headers in wring directory | 21:15 |
| freemangordon | the correct cmd is: | 21:15 |
| freemangordon | make headers_install ARCH=arm INSTALL_HDR_PATH=/usr | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my lenovo thinkpad T500 is stupid, it rather emergency shuts-down system due to CPU overtemp rather than cranking up fan speed from 2800rpm to at leas 4900rpm :-(( | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now how stupid is *that*, eh? | 21:25 |
| ShadowJK | If laptops didn't shutdown, they wouldn't sell any of those stupid cooling pads | 21:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm thoroughly pissed right now | 21:26 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: are you sure you fan is ok? | 21:50 |
| freemangordon | *your | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, if controlled manually, it spins up to 5000 | 21:50 |
| freemangordon | hmm | 21:51 |
| freemangordon | and who controls it otherwise? BIOS? | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | modprobe -r thinkpad_acpi; modprobe thinkpad_acpi fan_control=1; echo level full-speed > /proc/acpi/ibm/fan | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BIOS | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that weird comprocessor | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | co-processor | 21:52 |
| freemangordon | isn't there some fan policy settings there? | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that also does kbd mapping and scanning | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, there's some fan setting I think, though I'm sure I cranked that up to as high fan as possible | 21:52 |
| freemangordon | check if there is something like "target CPU temp" and put that as low as possible | 21:54 |
| freemangordon | ok, *working* glibc is built :) | 21:55 |
| freemangordon | I am really impressed maemo was able to boot without ppoll/pselect | 21:55 |
| freemangordon | 60% of the stuff was not working, but still | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WTF?? since boot my laptop isn't aware of winter time anymore | 21:57 |
| freemangordon | ok, chldspin locked with "stock" kernel-cssu, lets see how it will be with patched | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: btw you know you can speed up locking of childspin by factor 1000 simply by running a reniced -15 do while true;:;done loop in another shell | 22:01 |
| freemangordon | I am just running HAM :D:D:D | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 22:02 |
| freemangordon | yeah, and start to rotate landskape->portrait->... | 22:02 |
| freemangordon | *landscape | 22:02 |
| freemangordon | after 3-4 times it locks | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same prio tasks don't jelp anything | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | help* | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | H-D is higher prio, HAM prolly isn't | 22:03 |
| freemangordon | maybe, IDK but it works | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | by random, yeah | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my method though yields immediate reproducable reliable scriptable results | 22:06 |
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| freemangordon | you'll have a chance to test it :) | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you're doing real testing you don't want a bug to show up _eventually_ since your supposed fix might actually only extend the period until the bug shows up | 22:09 |
| freemangordon | well, without fix it takes 10-15 seconds | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if the patch e.g. reduces statistical probability by factor 10, your test wouldn't show the bug still is there unless you do 30..40 rotations. My method would kick in after 1s instead after 0.1s | 22:10 |
| freemangordon | ok, give me the command | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | run a reniced busy loop in another (sub)shell | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's all iirc | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reniced to higher prio | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lesser niceness | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the childspin process actually is seeing premetions | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pre-emptions | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if that's a word at all | 22:12 |
| freemangordon | could you give me the exact script, I am fighting with while... | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while true; do :; done | 22:13 |
| freemangordon | works | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could also do a for ((i=0; i<100000; i++)); do :; done | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which has the advantage you don't need to kill it | 22:15 |
| freemangordon | ok | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas that's bash | 22:15 |
| freemangordon | bad loop variable :) | 22:15 |
| freemangordon | anyway, while loop does the job too | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | try this: while [ $i -lt 10000 ]; do i=$((i + 1)); done | 22:17 |
| freemangordon | i=0; while [ $i -lt 10000 ]; do i=$((i + 1)); done | 22:18 |
| freemangordon | i'll run that 1000000 times | 22:18 |
| freemangordon | is that enough to lock chikdspin on your device? | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | *chldspin | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think so, it should lock device immediately | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | device? | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | childspin | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok :) | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | no, it works | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you need one or 2 0 more | 22:20 |
| freemangordon | did you run in xterm or in ssh session? | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err ssh | 22:20 |
| freemangordon | ok, me too | 22:20 |
| freemangordon | cannot lock it, even with 1000000 | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme try to reproduce it | 22:20 |
| freemangordon | ok | 22:20 |
| freemangordon | 2 chldspin processes in 2 consoles, third one runing 1000000 while... | 22:24 |
| freemangordon | none locked | 22:24 |
| freemangordon | :) | 22:24 |
| kerio | now do that with a forkbomb | 22:24 |
| freemangordon | why? | 22:24 |
| kerio | to see if it locks up :P | 22:25 |
| kerio | hmm, i wonder if it actually does | 22:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I friggin don't get how to renice | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no matter what I do, the result is a niceness of 0 | 22:27 |
| freemangordon | renice -15 | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't do anything here | 22:27 |
| freemangordon | what? | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's the result of nice after your renice? | 22:28 |
| freemangordon | you are trying to renice current sh? | 22:29 |
| freemangordon | do it from another console | 22:29 |
| freemangordon | you'll see < int top | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | halebop:~ # renice -10 $$ | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 6224 (process ID) old priority 0, new priority -10 | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | halebop:~ # nice | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -10 | 22:29 |
| freemangordon | i.e. renice -15 $pidof | 22:30 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ # renice -15 $$ | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ # nice | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 0 | 22:30 |
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| freemangordon | my device is overheating, stopping for a while :D | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# renice -15 $$ | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# nice | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 0 | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (bash ^^^) | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | hmm, that is strange | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# renice -n -15 $$ | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# nice | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 0 | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | seems nice cannot get niceness :D | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | anyway, in top the process is marked with '<' | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | top doesn't show a changed niceness either | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | what ps | grep sh shows | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, now it does | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ./childspin | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...... | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's it | 22:34 |
| freemangordon | do you want new glibc and the kernel, to confirm it fixes the bug? | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the number of dots is 'live' | 22:35 |
| freemangordon | yeah, got it | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not today, sorry. I'm soooooo late with breakfast | 22:36 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and tomorrow is robotnik again | 22:36 |
| freemangordon | anyway, i'll upload glibc to -devel | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cool stuff. I'll most likely give it a try tomorrow | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | you'll need new kernel too ;) | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | come up with a proper testing script | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, got that | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | who, me? | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll... | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | proper testing should be: | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | install new glibc | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | see if it locks (it locks) | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wonder how I could swap glib without rebooting, durin a script | 22:38 |
| freemangordon | install new kernel | 22:38 |
| freemangordon | dpkg -i | 22:38 |
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| freemangordon | newly launched processes will lod new lib | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's still be the old instance in RAM? | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do they? | 22:38 |
| freemangordon | deffinitely | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then it will suffice to switch some symlinks ;-) | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | maybe | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | you can chroot as well | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, dpkg doesn't do much more | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nice | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chroot, I like that idea | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though setting up a chroot is a biach | 22:40 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 22:40 |
| freemangordon | "/proc /sys /dev ... umm..." | 22:40 |
| freemangordon | "/tmp" | 22:40 |
| freemangordon | what else | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, just "renaming" /lib/glib* will suffice then | 22:41 |
| freemangordon | maybe | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could do that with mount | 22:41 |
| freemangordon | it it will become clear very fast | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bindmount the new glib file over the old one, only for this childspin process | 22:42 |
| freemangordon | mount -o bind works over files? | 22:42 |
| freemangordon | lol | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | supposed to | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also supposed to support per-process stuff | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | man mount | 22:43 |
| freemangordon | nice | 22:43 |
| freemangordon | no, thanks, I don;t have 4 spare hours :D | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kudos to javispedro who tought me | 22:43 |
| freemangordon | ok, glibc is in cssu-devel | 22:44 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: ^^^ | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bindmount /dev/foo, for mce ;-) | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno though if messybox ever heard of that | 22:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or fstab entry is: | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /olddir /newdir none bind | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | After this call the same contents is accessible in two places. One can also remount a single file (on a single file) | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | man 8 mount|less "+/The bind mounts." | 22:50 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: nice! | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: now what :P | 22:51 |
| merlin1991 | i vanish from irc so that I don't have to deal with a new kernel in cssu ;) | 22:51 |
| freemangordon | but,but... | 22:51 |
| freemangordon | you're the only one remaining | 22:51 |
| merlin1991 | that's the plan ;) | 22:52 |
| freemangordon | the last man standing :D | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the nice thing: the new glibc will work with stock kernel as well | 22:52 |
| freemangordon | yep. exactly in the same way as the old one | 22:52 |
| merlin1991 | yep though it still makes sense to patch the friggin kernel to fix the problem | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 22:52 |
| freemangordon | it makes no sense to have new libc without patching the friggin kernel | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just that we can't ship it as mandatory, best we can get is optional | 22:53 |
| freemangordon | optional in CSSU? | 22:53 |
| freemangordon | WTF? | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 22:53 |
| freemangordon | kernel | 22:53 |
| merlin1991 | do we have any assesment on the patches in kernel-power by now? | 22:53 |
| freemangordon | no | 22:53 |
| merlin1991 | well | 22:53 |
| freemangordon | but i'll try to prepare one | 22:53 |
| merlin1991 | does the patch apply to vanilla kernel? | 22:54 |
| freemangordon | vanilla? | 22:54 |
| freemangordon | as in stock? | 22:54 |
| merlin1991 | aka omap1 | 22:54 |
| freemangordon | that's not vanilla :P | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm still thinking we should support KP and just recommend it, while keeping CSSU in a state where it still works with stock kernel as well, just not taking benefit of kernel patches then | 22:54 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: well libc works with stock kernel | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for glib that's a pretty easy approach, since glib works with both kernels | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: since when bug fixes are optional? isn't that the whole point to have CSSU? | 22:55 |
| merlin1991 | and we have the patch from pali for the fiasco flasher that gives you a yes/no option for Do I really want a kernel | 22:55 |
| merlin1991 | also nod to fmg this is a valid bug in the kernel | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | guys, that makes no sense | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm fine with that, if it really works | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | have in mind one of the users of ppoll/pselect is cmt | 22:56 |
| freemangordon | i saw that when i booted maemo with no ppoll/pselect in libc :D | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as long as users can opt out of new kernel, and cssu won't explode into their face with stock kernel, I got no problems with that approach | 22:57 |
| freemangordon | Nov 1 21:35:01 Nokia-N900 cellular: ssc[1873]: **** SV=00, HW=RX-51 rev 2204 SW= **** | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | Nov 1 21:35:01 Nokia-N900 init: sscd main process (1873) terminated with status 127 | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | Nov 1 21:35:01 Nokia-N900 init: sscd main process ended, respawning | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | Nov 1 21:35:01 Nokia-N900 cellular: ssc[1878]: **** ssc-daemon 0.5.26 sscd NORMAL started **** | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | Nov 1 21:35:04 Nokia-N900 init: csd main process (1876) terminated with status 142 | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | Nov 1 21:35:04 Nokia-N900 init: csd main process ended, respawning | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | this happens when there is no ppoll/pselect | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after all KP is rather thoroughly used/"tested" by a few users. I still think it's not ready for mandatory primetime, but if users have a chance to opt out... | 22:59 |
| freemangordon | draw your conclusions | 22:59 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I still don;t think all of the patches in KP should go in CSSU kernel | 22:59 |
| freemangordon | though, on the other hand if those are modules there should be no problem | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: the problem is there's no alternative to having the one and only kernel of your system. You can't use 2 kernels, and you can't add features of whatever homebrew kernel you are using simply to the new mandatory KP | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so users need a working way to opt out of whatever we ship for kernel | 23:01 |
| freemangordon | well, I think opt-out should be given only to those who don't use stock | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if there's an opt-out and CSSU will still work as it does today, with stock/whatever kernel... no problem | 23:02 |
| merlin1991 | comone doc, give the man a break# | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, some may use stock kernel for some good reason | 23:02 |
| merlin1991 | s/comone/come on/ | 23:02 |
| infobot | merlin1991 meant: come on doc, give the man a break# | 23:02 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: they have the option to not upgrade | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, they don't | 23:03 |
| merlin1991 | why? | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since CSSU is meant to be mandatory | 23:03 |
| freemangordon | it is either mandatory as a whole or not at all | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmm | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's exactly the point | 23:04 |
| freemangordon | you can;t define "this part of CSSU is mandatory, but this is not" | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure we can | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what optional is for | 23:04 |
| merlin1991 | and we also can eat small kittens | 23:04 |
| freemangordon | fixing bugs should not be optional | 23:04 |
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| merlin1991 | also in no way cssu is "meant to be mandatory" as long as autobuilder can't use the repo | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | installing a new kernel though should | 23:04 |
| freemangordon | disagree, if that is what is needed to fix a bug | 23:05 |
| merlin1991 | we need some stats on how many users are on plain cssu as opposed to -thumb, I kinda got the feeling that our biggest userbase is on -thumb | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kernel is a very sensitive topic to astonishingly many users | 23:05 |
| merlin1991 | bteween DocScrutinizer05 we have over 700 users of the -thumb flavour, which basically ships kp | 23:06 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: most of the users don't have a clue what kernel is and who put that on their devices | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I got the feeling that the whole debate here is about whether we should offer opt-out to users of stock kernel or not - which is kinda infantile | 23:06 |
| freemangordon | if CSSU aims stock system, then we should not offer opt-out to stock kernel users | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: so they won't have a problem with "install new leete kernel? (recommended!) [y/n]" | 23:08 |
| freemangordon | they have the option to not upgrade | 23:08 |
| freemangordon | they will, I told you, imagine there are users who don't have a clue what kernel is | 23:08 |
| freemangordon | they'll get frightened by that question | 23:08 |
| freemangordon | and will never upgrade | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, I'm not supporting this, since it deprives users of freedom of choice for no reason other than cssu maintainers defining KP as mandatory | 23:09 |
| freemangordon | they have the freedom to not upgrade | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no good argument | 23:09 |
| freemangordon | or stay with PR 1.3 | 23:09 |
| freemangordon | yes it is, CSSU is supposed to continue what Nokia did | 23:10 |
| freemangordon | and Nokia shipped new kernel with every PR | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "you got the freedom to GTFOAD" is no politically correct statement ever | 23:10 |
| freemangordon | I am developer, not politician | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I tell you about politics | 23:10 |
| freemangordon | and "technicaly" this is the correct POV | 23:10 |
| freemangordon | and trust me, I know better than ordinary Joe the answer of "install new leete kernel? (recommended!) [y/n]" | 23:12 |
| freemangordon | you know it better, too | 23:12 |
| kerio | is the answer "yes"? | 23:12 |
| freemangordon | yes | 23:12 |
| kerio | i answered correctly, yay ^_^ | 23:12 |
| freemangordon | good, now change your nick | 23:12 |
| freemangordon | to Joe | 23:12 |
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| kerio | nuh uh, we clearly showed that you know exactly as well as me the answer of "install new leete kernel? (recommended!) [y/n]" | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, there are just 3 points I'll not drop: a) keep CSSU (userland) compatibility to stock kernel, so it doesn't explode when other kernels are used, b) keep as much freedom of choice for users as possible since it's insane to say "you don't want to decide that, so we removed that option for you to increase your comfort", and c) keep CSSU (userland) compatibility to stock kernel, so it doesn't explode when other kernels are used, | 23:13 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: my sister, her boyfriend and a friend of mine (girl) have n900 and CSSU. None of them have FC what kernel is and do they have to install it | 23:14 |
| freemangordon | and while they have a person to ask, lots of users don't | 23:15 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: are a) and c) supposed to be the same? | 23:15 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: what kind of reality disortion field do you posess that you could convince 2 woman to use a n900? :D | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ^ | 23:15 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: k | 23:15 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: you won;t believe it :D | 23:15 |
| kerio | merlin1991: come on, the n900 is somewhat sexy | 23:16 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: actually they are hery,very happy with it | 23:16 |
| merlin1991 | if I look at $average woman in my social circle, I could probably sell them a n9, but a n900 would never go through | 23:16 |
| merlin1991 | yeah but the initial hurdle to get them use it for a week or so is almost impossible :D | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: his dark force has to be scary huge, when he is able to convince users to use N900 but they will get scared and confused by install new leete kernel? (recinstall new leete kernel? (recommended!) [y/n]"ommended!) [y/n]" | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | THAT would even confuse *me* | 23:17 |
| merlin1991 | heh we should make that flash question a loop so it comes back whenever you type n :D | 23:17 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: your mobile phone is not supposed to ask such questions | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what about the standard requester that pops up every time you install a extras package in HAM? | 23:18 |
| freemangordon | users are used to it, this will be new stuff, read scary stuff | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit, sorry | 23:19 |
| freemangordon | (the above question) | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | installing CSSU might be scary, this question for sure isn't | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | installing a new kernel without even letting me know thous is FUCKING SCARY | 23:20 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: look at the userbase. geeks (at least most of them) are already on -thumb. | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I never look at the userbase, since nobody ever seen it | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all your assumptions about userbase are handwaving | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | the remaining (if ever heard of CSSU) will get scared. Thin about CSSU-stable too | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | no, merlin1991 has statistics for -thumb | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | does that tell you about their potential to feel scared by a really nice and simple polite question with a suggested way to answer it? | 23:22 |
| freemangordon | I gave you an examle about real people I know | 23:23 |
| freemangordon | they will get scared | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I#ll stop/leave this discussion now, since I already posted a) b) c) and nothing more left to do here, but some breakfast to eat before I go to sleep | 23:23 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | :D | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: so, the same question again | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | what now? | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | :P | 23:24 |
| * freemangordon hopes merlin1991 will not leave IRC | 23:24 | |
| merlin1991 | we'll need that asessment anyway | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | that's for sure | 23:25 |
| merlin1991 | nfc how to properly write the word :P | 23:25 |
| freemangordon | ok, lets continue when we have it, ok? | 23:25 |
| merlin1991 | that sounds good | 23:25 |
| freemangordon | assessment | 23:25 |
| merlin1991 | thanks :) | 23:25 |
| * freemangordon chacks with google | 23:25 | |
| freemangordon | *checks | 23:26 |
| freemangordon | yep, assessment | 23:26 |
| merlin1991 | dict.leo.org is quite good, though it's a german<>english dictionary | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on4e last suggestion: finally get rid of this rotten idea of MP, CSSU needs to strive to reduce shit forced down user's throat by MP, not improve on evil concept invented by Nokia for reasons of laziness | 23:26 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: that means new HAM | 23:26 |
| merlin1991 | we'd have to hook into ham AND apt then | 23:27 |
| freemangordon | or red pill mode enabled by default? | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it does mean new HAM, then we should put new HAM on top of our ToDo list - duh, I thought it's already there since several months | 23:27 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: that gains nothing to users | 23:28 |
| freemangordon | unlike bugfixes and such | 23:28 |
| freemangordon | after all n900 IS NOT DESKTOP | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry taht's just more random nonsense | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm a user too, and I recently helped another user how to get back stock camera-ui | 23:29 |
| freemangordon | and what was his/her problem? | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we had plenty of complaints about CBSMS widhget | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the probelm was FUCKING | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MP | 23:30 |
| freemangordon | as long as we do something there will be complains | 23:30 |
| freemangordon | it is inevitable and you know that pretty well | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're not arguing anymore, you're spreading useless statements | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm out | 23:31 |
| kerio | don't fight :( | 23:36 |
| Skry | have to agree with Doc's point b, and what comes to removing options etc, I have just one word, Gnome3. | 23:41 |
| freemangordon | Skry: Gnome3 brings bugs, does not fix them, unlike the matter of our discussion | 23:43 |
| Skry | though I also understand that to average Joe this kind of stuff is at least quite confusing | 23:43 |
| Skry | freemangordon: yeah, targeted that one more to Doc but anyways, I guess this is a matter of the amount of average Joes involved . Not saying anything to either direction, I'm sure you all figure out the best solution, or a solution at least :) | 23:47 |
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