IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Sunday, 2012-06-10

DocScrutinizer05I thought as much00:31
DocScrutinizer05and I thought better give a non working advice that sketches an idea, than a working self-destruction instruction00:32
DocScrutinizer05I clearly quoted where from I c&p'd00:32
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: after all you're the packaging maintainer who's got a clue about apt, and dpkg, and dependencies, and .deb and whatnot00:33
DocScrutinizer05I'm just an annoying QA, and sparrings partner for new ideas00:33
merlin1991:D00:34
DocScrutinizer05anyway I probably should edit that post00:34
DocScrutinizer05hope you posted better more savvy advice meanwhile00:35
merlin1991yeah get rid of the dashes :D00:35
DocScrutinizer05no, I will get rid of all the fubar advice00:35
DocScrutinizer05after all it was meant as a stopgap until somebody with a clue, like you, would step up to straighten things00:36
DocScrutinizer05primarily it was meant to assure users we care00:37
DocScrutinizer05what's your plan to fix the issue of conflicting dependencies?00:37
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how 'original' custom-operator-name-widget handled the doubtlessly existing dependency to maemo-pr of that stock widget00:39
DocScrutinizer05also wasn't the idea for CSSU to have no - or as small as possible - a MP at all?00:41
DocScrutinizer05and rather use *real* dependencies whenever there are some00:41
DocScrutinizer05I can't see anything in CSSU core depending on fixed libsms, and I can't see CBS-widget depend on anything except fixed libsms00:43
DocScrutinizer05nevertheless since libsms is a core component that will fsckup system when missing, we probably could include that into cssu-MP, but we shouldn't include CBS-widget as a mandatory part of CSSU. System will work even without any operator widget at all00:45
DocScrutinizer05my 0.02€00:45
DocScrutinizer05(I know I 'changed my mind' regarding that, as I simply didn't realize we're again running into a pitfall with this CBA-widget)00:47
DocScrutinizer05by the outside look and POV CBS-widget clearly is a cssu-optional pkg. Sth that can run on CSSU only, but isn't needed to fix anything. It's even alternative00:49
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LaoLang_cool20.2010.36-2maemo13 (09.03.2011)   hildon-desktop  Added zoom in/out support in hildon-desktop (Ctrl + Shift + s / f)08:42
LaoLang_coolWhat does it do?08:42
LaoLang_coolI press ctrl-shift-s when on desktop, no any effect08:43
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LaoLang_coolok, in version T-maemo2, it was removed...08:52
Sc0rpius:)09:04
LaoLang_coolIs there a univerisal way to select text on the screen?09:20
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lufHi, too busy last two days :(11:42
lufI created gitorious accoung.11:42
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Estel_I would rather like to finally hear answer, if, following recent ideology, users of CSSU are soon to face regression, and lack of camera-ui in base CSSU set12:59
Estel_witch camera-ui (obviously, I mean Nicolai's one) move to cssu-rewrite12:59
Estel_or cssu-laternative12:59
Estel_or whatever.12:59
Estel_and if yes, what is going to remain in cssu base? after all, we can put 99% of CSSU content into "rewrites", alternatives, etc13:00
Estel_I've asked this question 2 times already, now 3th one. Seems no one know?13:01
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tadzikany ideas what "operator name widget" actually is? It came with the latest CSSU, but I have no eye deer what it does. It appears in the settings13:19
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Estel_tadzik, it allow You to receive cell broadcast messages13:40
Estel_see google13:40
Estel_You just set it up in settings, then, if You use 2G, after a while, You will have cell broadcast messages displayed next to operator name13:40
Estel_in Poland it works, most of the times, as service that show ~location You're in13:40
Estel_i.e. city, or street, sometimes13:41
Estel_accuracy is low13:41
Estel_...because it doesn't traingulate, obviously, only displays data associated to broadcast cell You're actually connected in13:42
Estel_s/broadcast/tower/13:42
infobotEstel_ meant: ...because it doesn't traingulate, obviously, only displays data associated to tower cell You're actually connected in13:42
tadzikoh, cool13:47
tadzikthanks Estel_13:49
LaoLang_coolWhy doesn't nokia declose the source of maemo??13:49
NIN101third party components they don't have the rights for.13:50
tadzikI do not know, but I suspect they might feel uneasy about giving away for free something they've put some serious money in13:50
NIN101(and the source)13:51
Estel_np tadzik :)13:51
Estel_NIN101, true, but there are also many things owned just by Nokia13:52
Estel_they fatc is, that they stupid managers think "changing sourcer code require work form our workers, even minimal"13:52
Estel_work = money for work13:53
Estel_= they preffer to keep it in closed vault forever13:53
Estel_screw them, we're rewriting it anyway, they can take it to grave with them13:53
NIN101won't be possible to rewrite everything.13:54
Estel_Well all know that long-term - i.e. years - future lies in things liek Mer. I just hope for less dumb UI than Nemo (as it's now)13:54
Estel_NIN101, some time ago, You would say "getting rid of bme is unfeasible"13:54
Estel_now Pali almsot finished required modules, with userland coming13:54
LaoLang_coolCool!13:54
Estel_of course I agree, not *feasible* to RE some hardware parts (possible, but not feasible)13:54
Estel_so we will probably end up in having comfortable stack with non-irritating blobs13:55
Estel_and later, systems like Mer, +, maybe, totally open devices13:55
Estel_done RIGHT way, not like openmoko13:55
tadzikEstel_: should I set some particular cell broadcast channel for this to work? The default 50 doesn't seem to receive anything13:55
Estel_tadzik, I also though like that - just keep it at 5013:55
Estel_and leave for while13:55
Estel_in Poland, only channel used is 50 anyway :P13:56
Estel_BTW, it depends on operator13:56
LaoLang_coolHow to write apps for maemo? I don't know programming at all, can I start to learn C from writing simplest apps for maemo?13:56
Estel_it's possible - but, highly unlikely - that your particular one doesn't send any data13:56
tadzikI'm using Play13:56
Estel_LaoLang_cool, You can, but You would like to start QT, probably13:56
tadzikI'll just be patient than I guess13:56
Estel_tadzik, in many countries, things like closer health care, hotyels, etc are broadcast, on different channels13:56
NIN101Qt is just a framework, not a programming language, so it's better to know C++ first before starting with Qt (or python, but...)13:56
Estel_Polish operators stick to street or city, most of the times13:56
tadzikSo Qt is the way to go these days, eh? I'm apparently the only person on earth that does prefer Gtk :)13:57
LaoLang_coolWill it take more battery if I turn on the operator name widget?13:57
tadzikI see13:57
Estel_as for Play, it's complicated,a s they use both own and 3rd party cell towers13:57
tadzikright13:57
Estel_no Idea what they broadcast on own towers13:57
NIN101also possible to use GTK on N900 if you prefer that.13:57
Estel_just leave it on channel 50, and check after 5 minutes or so13:57
Estel_it should start receiving data13:57
Estel_also, if You've just updated to cssu, reboot - no idea if it's related...13:57
tadzikyeah, but the whole mobile world seems to be moving to Qt anyway, so resistance is futile ;)13:57
Estel_LaoLang_cool, no, it's battery neutral13:58
tadziknah, I updated yesterday or so and it rebooted automagically13:58
Estel_tadzik, for many things ir preffer GTK too13:58
Estel_and, honestly, both things are ok13:58
Estel_it "seems" that QT may be easier to learn for newbies13:58
tadzikI guess it's probably not the thing between Gtk and Qt, but just the fact that I don't particularly like programming in C++13:58
NIN101it's Qt not QT :P13:59
Estel_sorry, can't be bothered to care :(13:59
Estel_especially, that Nokia employes write "QT5"13:59
Estel_;P13:59
LaoLang_cool:)13:59
Estel_tadzik, so what languages do You like?13:59
Estel_C++ sounds like base of almost everything ;)14:00
Estel_OTOH, Python is awesome14:00
tadzikcall me crazy, but I really prefer Java to C++. As a language purely, not as a platform. I really like Go, and I still like pure C from time to time14:00
tadzikand I make my living on Perl and Perl 6 :)14:00
Estel_I see14:01
Estel_well, java isn't bad as per see, just platform is terrible, thanks to sun, and now, oracle14:01
tadzikright14:01
Estel_tadzik, Perl, heh. like it, but no matter, what I can't make infobot running from ym wrt54GL with perl installed :P14:02
tadzikthe language itself is more like C++ should look like, imho. In C++ C tends to leak out here and there making it PITA most of the time14:02
Estel_kinda unrelated, just anegdote14:02
Estel_yea, legacy14:02
Estel_BTW, tadzik if You're programmer, start writing something for N900, at once! :P14:03
Estel_seriously though, codijng compewtition is going to start in few days and last for 3 months14:03
Estel_You could get N950 and N9 as a prize14:03
tadzikI have to sort out the university crap for now :)14:03
Estel_if You would manage to write sometihng interesting OR deo a significant, major update to existing program14:03
tadzikteh exams. They're coming.14:03
Estel_I see14:03
Estel_well, CC runs for whole summer and a little more14:03
Estel_i.e. 3 months including voting period14:04
Estel_(so 3 months without week or two)14:04
tadzikI started writing some Todo app in Vala some time ago, but I couldn't install scratchbox when I tried, so I postponed the whole thing for "later"14:04
Estel_I see14:04
tadzikso it's like GSoC14:04
tadzikoh, I like Vala too, while we're at languages :)14:04
LaoLang_coolcalendar in maemo sucks...14:04
tadzikit's not _that_ bad14:04
tadzikit's merely LTA imho14:05
Estel_all after all14:05
Estel_Although, we have also some unmaintaned programs that begs for update14:05
Estel_for example, TXPAD14:05
tadziksuch as?14:05
Estel_almsot feature complete thing that would kick leafpad out of device14:06
Estel_i.e. text editor with syntax highlighting14:06
tadzikI see14:06
Estel_much like Notepad++ on desktops14:06
LaoLang_cooltadzik, it's so bad..14:06
Estel_BUT,, using all N900 features14:06
tadzikI wrote some Perl using vim on my n900 ;)14:06
Estel_like proximity sensor itp14:06
Estel_for working voerlays, i.e. scrolling, or just highlighting14:06
tadzikbut I don't really consider N900 as a coding machine14:06
Estel_BUT, it's hurt by being ufinished14:06
tadzikright14:07
Estel_tadzik, hehe, soemtimes, amy be hard, although there are people writing pourely on n90014:07
tadzikI think the Maemo UI is somehow wasting a potential that lies in a touchscreen device14:07
Estel_(as for TxPad, for example, it doesn't save font size on exit - sounds like 5 minute fix for someone knowledgeable)14:07
Estel_(and, using hardware volume buttons, instead of working, make it segfault)14:07
Estel_or Filebox14:07
Estel_only sane GUi file manager14:07
tadzikfor example, we're to press this tiny bar on top of the screen, and I sometimes try 3 times or more to click it. We have gestures, we could just "pull" it down with a swipe14:07
Estel_painfully unfinished, as cepi perez switched to Meego, and latter harmattan14:08
Estel_tadzik, hm14:08
Estel_why not14:08
tadzikthink the default picture manager: there you swipe your finger to look at the next picture14:09
tadzikimagine that you'd have to press some tiny button on the bottom. Terrible/!/14:09
tadzikmaybe some daemon reacting for gestures would be a nice thing to have14:10
tadzikbut I'd imagine it as something being deeply integrated with the UI14:10
tadzikbut that may be dream-zone, mostly ;)14:11
Estel_write a daemon simualting multi-touch via calculating touch vectors ;)14:12
tadzikha :)14:13
Estel_seriously though, we know that multitouch is possible on resistive screens, and, if coded properly, is better than any capacitive shit14:13
tadzikoh, another thing that drives me nuts14:13
tadzikthis "hold your finger" pop-up menu14:13
Estel_:)14:13
Estel_ssounds like thing for CSSU14:13
tadzikwhen I move my finger to see what's written on the buttons, it disappears14:13
tadzikand makes me do "aaaargh" sounds14:14
Estel_You could work with arcean, he manages hildon-deskop in CSSU, and is Polish guy too14:14
Estel_haha, I mastered moving it the way it don't dissapear,... but yes, it's lovely14:14
Estel_it's meant for stylus, rather14:14
tadzikright14:14
Estel_some people, hoever, accidentaly hit "delete"14:14
tadzikit could just stay on top until you tap elsewhere14:14
tadzikas it blurs the screen anyway, iirc14:14
tadzikyeah, bless the "are you sure" screen14:14
Estel_jnnot everywhere14:14
Estel_msot of the time it doesn't14:14
tadzikI wonder how many things I've deleted not knowing about it14:15
tadzikanyway, let me get rid of my exams and I'll try to dive into this and do something about this pop-up14:15
tadzikwe have that thing open-source, right?14:15
tadzik(ftr, Opera Mobile does that just right, the popup menu)14:16
LaoLang_coolvim is good14:22
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LaoLang_coolwhen rotation the desktop, screen will be blank for 1 second, can it be avoided?15:46
tadzikthere's an option for rotating around a different axis15:46
tadzikbut even then it blinks, just for a shorter while15:47
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Estel_If You set everything relating rotation to 0, it doesn't16:21
Estel_I just left it without any rotating animation, works well16:21
Estel_i.e. 0 angle, 0 time, etc16:21
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JaffaAf'noon, all. I see a purple high;ight, but have been away all week and forgot to /quit.17:17
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lufI have a question abour curl for cssu.17:57
lufMay I add to kerberos and ldap libraries or not?17:57
lufldap: libsasl2-2 libldap-2.4-217:58
lufkrb: libkrb53 libcomerr2 libkeyutils118:01
lufMay I add to libcurl3 dependecy for kerberos and ldap libraries or not?18:12
lufmerlin1991: ping18:13
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Estel_luf, it may be hard to reach people during weekend18:46
Estel_dong get discouraged, if you can't reach them now18:46
Estel_BTW18:46
Estel_luf, would You find benefits in being available 24/7 on #maemo irc?18:46
Estel_or maybe You're using proxy bouncers already?18:46
lufEstel_: I just tried it. Sometimes it's hard to me to be online during working days.18:49
lufEstel_: No I don't use proxy bouncers.18:49
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Estel_luf, yea, and proxy bouncer relays m,essage to Yuo as soon as you connect18:53
Estel_it's logged in your behalf18:53
Estel_as You18:53
Estel_if You would find something like that helpful for Yuor contributions to Maemo, I can provide such service for You18:54
Estel_(as for every Maemo developer, that would find it beneficial for her/his work on Maemo)18:54
Estel_bandwidth usage is, generally, non-existrent (in practice)18:54
Estel_I've been using something like that before, to helm me fulfill my councilor duties but hosted by unreliable person, that revoked it. As effect, i've set up my own one on my access point18:55
Estel_I'm not coder - at least not serious one - so it's another small thing I can do to participate, even by smallest factor, in development :)18:55
lufEstel_: Thank you for the offer. I don't see it as necessery for me now.19:04
lufEstel_: I'm quite fine with client + searchable logs.19:04
lufwho19:05
Estel_ok :)19:06
lufSc0rpius: to your question from monday about curl. I compiled it and it's in extras-devel19:08
lufSc0rpius: http://maemo.org/packages/view/curl/19:11
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DocScrutinizer05luf: I could offer bouncer service to you as well, I'm usually not concerned about anybody sharing my box, unless (s)he turns out to be an unreliable bitching offensive individual with quite some potential to become a security risk for my box19:40
RaimuThis sounds like a suspiciously specific description.19:40
DocScrutinizer05luf: anyway regarding bouncer service I wouldn't recommend to you to trust in any bouncer admin who 4 weeks ago didn't have an idea about existence of such things like IRC bouncers19:46
Estel_DocScrutinizer, can't You write single line of text without Your paranoia about me included? You revoked Your promise, well your choice. But accusing someone about being security risk? Really, it's miserably pathetic.19:47
Estel_luf is grown up, he will know what to do. not to mention that he already said - he *don't* need such services now.19:47
Sc0rpiuswas I asking questions about curl? I don't remember19:57
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lufSc0rpius: yes you did :)20:11
lufBut not this Monday. It was several weeks ago.20:12
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Sc0rpiusI don't think so, that's weird.  I use wget though, but curl is nice for other protocols20:22
Sc0rpiusbut maybe it was somebody with a similar nickname20:22
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DocScrutinizer05no similar nicks found20:32
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freemangordonmerlin1991: kernel-cssu is in t-thumb repo22:38
freemangordonyou told me h-d is nerwer in -testing, why is that?22:39
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merlin1991freemangordon: h-h22:50
merlin1991freemangordon: you didn't push the mp into the thumb repo22:51
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freemangordonaah, I was under the impression you will do it23:04
freemangordonok, going to push it23:04
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