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| MohammadAG | merlin1991: Ping | 02:02 |
|---|---|---|
| merlin1991 | MohammadAG: pong | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | merlin1991: Email still formal | 02:04 |
| merlin1991 | rofl | 02:04 |
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| merlin1991 | FFS kubuntu stuck at bootup | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | Takes 30s here | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | But hey, thats qt for you | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | I really wish i could get gnome back | 02:29 |
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| merlin1991 | yeah, but unity, never for me | 02:31 |
| merlin1991 | btw any dependency of camer-ui which I should know of, seems the control file is missing some (I've got undefined stuff errors when compiling) | 02:32 |
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| * merlin1991 needs to find his usb -> micro-sd adapter | 02:51 | |
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| jonwil | MohammadAG: ping | 03:34 |
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| merlin1991 | jonwil: he's afk for today | 03:35 |
| jonwil | ok | 03:35 |
| merlin1991 | as in went to bed :D | 03:36 |
| jonwil | :) | 03:36 |
| merlin1991 | it's crazy how big the nemo images end up | 03:37 |
| merlin1991 | you dl a 165 mb bz2 file | 03:38 |
| merlin1991 | and it uncompresses to 3.6 GB | 03:38 |
| merlin1991 | well partly due to the fact that it's a raw diskimage and it contains loads of 0s :D | 03:38 |
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| jonwil | I think operator-name-cbs-widget is looking good, the only remaining problem seems to be someone who's network is sending garbage Cell Broadcasts | 03:42 |
| jonwil | And short of being able to capture the raw packets from the cell modem to the cellular services daemon, I cant see any way to identify just whats going on or what I can do to solve it | 03:43 |
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| jonwil | I think its looking good as something that can go into cssu-t | 03:43 |
| merlin1991 | hm thinking about it, it makes no sense to load a kernel image into memory just to reboot a second later, what was I thinking adding -R to that flasher cmd? :D | 03:49 |
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| merlin1991 | sadly I can't test it properly | 03:50 |
| merlin1991 | I've got 2 n900s, one with a completely broken modem, and the other one only does 3G :D | 03:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | somebody seen freemangordon answering my comments regarding thumb? | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | or is he still busy with funeral party for his plans to get thumb-Qt? | 16:59 |
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| Raimu | I don't think he's been around for a little over 24 hours. | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | as soon as there's an evidence for a potential race or other statistically happening glitch, there's no more use at all in doing stress tests to show X hours of flawless operation under any particular circumstances - just to mention that fact | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | last pst: [2011-12-01 23:47:21] <freemangordon> Yeah, I know | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I honestly hope he noticed thumb being thoroughly fsckdup in OMAP3430 on N900, and no use at all in him further investigating thumb errors in gcc | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | even when he came up with a whole Qt thumb build that uses 40% less mem footprint and runs fine on his device and system for days, we wouldn't want to touch it with a 10 ft pole | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless he came up with a *comprehensive* list of *all* silicon errata in 3430, and analyzed each single one of them and explained how his workaround is proven to deal with it so it won't cause anymore problems | 17:11 |
| freemangordon | doc, hi | 17:20 |
| freemangordon | seems i missed the thumb party | 17:20 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer ^^^ | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: hey, we got chanlog :-D | 17:21 |
| freemangordon | ok, will look at it | 17:21 |
| freemangordon | just to finish gcc 4.6.2 arm toolchain :D | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | bottom line: there ARE SiERR in thumb, and they aren't even fixable via workarounds as those are mutually exclusive for different aspects of thumb borkedness | 17:22 |
| freemangordon | ok, lets check the logs | 17:23 |
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| freemangordon | ok, seems we are talking about errata 430973 and 687067, correct? | 17:31 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer ^^^ | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: I'm not going to redo the hours and days of work stskeeps and dm8tbr did | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus some more weeks of investigations of the guys that those two pals based on | 17:33 |
| jonwil | Do we know if there is official info from TI about broken thumb on OMAP3430? | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | google is your friend | 17:34 |
| jonwil | ok | 17:34 |
| freemangordon | well, as it seems again that we are talking nonsense I will and thumb discussion until i have working gcc 4.6.2 toolchain. WHEN i test Qt built with gcc 4.6.2 then i will continue comments re thumb. Just for info kernel patch fot errata 430973 is enabled in both stock kernel and KP. And afaik there is a patch in u-boot for errata 687067. | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I honestly hope he noticed thumb being thoroughly fsckdup in OMAP3430 on N900, and no use at all in him further investigating thumb errors in gcc | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | even when he came up with a whole Qt thumb build that uses 40% less mem footprint and runs fine on his device and system for days, we wouldn't want to touch it with a 10 ft pole | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless he came up with a *comprehensive* list of *all* silicon errata in 3430, and analyzed each single one of them and explained how his workaround is proven to deal with it so it won't cause anymore problems | 17:39 |
| RST38h | sorry but why is thumb fucked up? I am using it it is ok | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | *SIGH* | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | why is the sky blue, why does C++ suck? | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | it got Silicon Errata | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | in OMAP3430 | 17:40 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, there are fixes for those | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously those doing such fixes rhink they won't work | 17:41 |
| RST38h | Everyone has got errata | 17:41 |
| freemangordon | yes | 17:41 |
| freemangordon | agree | 17:41 |
| RST38h | I know some pretty "respectable" chips that have got errata for their main instruction set ;) | 17:41 |
| freemangordon | OMAP3430 is full of sillicon erratas, it is not only thumb | 17:41 |
| freemangordon | should we stop using n900? | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if you got better "fixes" you should discuss it with the guys that originally dealt with those SiERR and kernel patches etc | 17:42 |
| RST38h | So, you have to be more specific about THUMB in 3430 | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | RST38h, more specific as in? | 17:42 |
| RST38h | freemangordon: What exact issue prevents people from using thumb on 3430, as Doc insists? | 17:43 |
| freemangordon | Have no clue of any besides gcc | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: I simply don't think you are the fist guy on this globe to look into a way to fix thumb SiERR on OMAP3430, and it's quite discouraging that there's not already been a "THUMB ON TI OMAP IS FIXED NOW" news headline | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'm not joining in to a futile effort | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | Qt in simbian is thumb compiled, you know that? | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | symbian* | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | the issue been around since at least 24 months now | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, Qt symbian libraries are thumb compiled, besides gui and webkit. | 17:45 |
| freemangordon | are there 3430 symbian phones? | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | pretty please refer to all the fucking quoates I gathered for you, now it's up to you to escalate it to the guys I quoted. I'm simply relying on their judgement, and ETX | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | I already expended >3h to explain to you why I initially and instantly said "beware of thumb" and where you could find additional info. I'm not going to invest further time wasted to discuss the issue on a "but why..." basis | 17:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | when you come back with "I have looked into 430973 and 687067, discussed it with the original authors, had an idea how to fix it but they won't listen, here's an URL to a paper explaining my take on it and how you could fix" - come back as I'm interested. Until then, no way | 17:50 |
| freemangordon | 430973 is already in n900 kernel | 17:51 |
| freemangordon | ok, the patch | 17:51 |
| freemangordon | CONFIG_ARM_ERRATA_430973=y | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | and CONFIG_ARM_ERRATA_687067=y, are mutually exclusive | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | AIUI | 17:53 |
| freemangordon | it should be done in uboot AFAIK, not in kernel | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | so fix that, convince the authors of those patches it's a viable fix, and you're the hero of the week | 17:53 |
| freemangordon | fix what, there is uboot patch already | 17:54 |
| freemangordon | AFAIK | 17:54 |
| * jonwil hopes he can get the ball rolling on getting operator-name-cbs-widget into cssu before he goes on holidays | 17:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer | freemangordon: and what makes you think an uboot fix would help for kernel space (not saying it doesn't - just asking if it actually does) | 17:56 |
| freemangordon | because if the nature of the errata | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | "If the IBE is to be enabled, then the L1 System Array Debug Register 0 should be initialized to a | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | zero value." | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | that is from the description | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, so next step for you to do: check this with dm8tbr and stskeeps as I got my info from them, and probably they will send you to the original authors of those patches so you can ask them if the bug is closed then with applying both patches, one in uBoot one in kernel space | 17:58 |
| freemangordon | This register is for RAM array debug purposes and is not used as a part of normal | 17:58 |
| freemangordon | functionality. It is only accessible in a privileged secure mode. Therefore, it can be statically | 17:58 |
| freemangordon | initialized as a part of the boot code sequence. If the register is used for debug purposes, the value | 17:58 |
| freemangordon | should be reset to zero when the debug sequence completes. | 17:58 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer, for third time I am saying CONFIG_ARM_ERRATA_430973=y | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I am saying 6456th time: so what | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | nothing, leave it | 18:00 |
| * jonwil wishes he could find a way to help 654321 find out why he gets garbage cell broadcast SMS messages on his N900 | 18:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer | you're assuming it already IS fixed while the original authors claim the patches are mutually exclusive - sorry when I don't buy your story | 18:00 |
| jonwil | but without getting into GDB or packet logging the cellmo, there is no way to do it | 18:00 |
| freemangordon | ok, I will ask them. Who are the original authors? | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw we got no uBoot on N900 by default, not really | 18:02 |
| freemangordon | so? | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-12-03 16:54:39] <freemangordon> fix what, there is uboot patch already | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | and MEH now, for good | 18:04 |
| freemangordon | I asked so what if we don't have uboot by default, it is easy to be installed | 18:04 |
| freemangordon | well, that is not productive, let me finish with 4.6.2 toolchain,. | 18:05 |
| Pali | freemangordon: I'm prepairing u-boot rx51 patches for upstreaming... | 18:05 |
| freemangordon | good, is there a patch for 687067 errata? | 18:06 |
| Pali | I do not know, but I think no | 18:06 |
| freemangordon | not good :D | 18:06 |
| Pali | if it is rx51 specified, sure no | 18:06 |
| Pali | if it is somewhere in omap code, we can try to find it... | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: patches to a chainloaded uBoot might not help anything, as there are things like initializing RAM etc that can *nly* be done by first step bootloader. If that one fails on it, it's pretty hard to do them later _again_ | 18:07 |
| freemangordon | no, it is OMAP3430 | 18:07 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer: do you mean first step booloader x-loader or NOLO? | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | whatever is doing the specific initialization | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | was an random example, not telated to specific patch | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | related* | 18:08 |
| Pali | So we do not know it | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | just pointing to the difference between original uBoot and chainloaded uBoot | 18:09 |
| freemangordon | well, if there is a code under our control which runs in secure mode, the errata could be fixed according to docs. | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | form NOLO POV uBoot and linux kernel are no differnece at all | 18:09 |
| Pali | yes, you are right | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ahaaa, well not even NOLO is running under secure mode AFAIK | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sure uBoot is NOT running under secure mode | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | NOW we're talking | 18:11 |
| Pali | x-loder is the first booloader - it is signed? | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | needs to be | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why we can't patch it | 18:11 |
| Pali | do we know something how to generate signature? | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | we however can and did patch NOLO | 18:12 |
| Pali | and is NOLO signed? | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, get the secret key from Nokia, sign shit with it - simple as that | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | NOLO is NOT signed afaik | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | on N900 | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | on N9(50) it is | 18:13 |
| Pali | so secret key is in nokia... does omap3 have someting like unsigned boot? | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why I say N900 NOLO is not running in secure mode | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: not really | 18:13 |
| Pali | so nokia has special omap board with unpublished sign key? | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | we could ask Nokia for a new xloader incorporating that patch supposed to go into uBoot | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | signing is done on a special buildhost | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | x86 or whatever | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | with special signing tools from TI, publicly available | 18:15 |
| freemangordon | http://www.digipedia.pl/usenet/thread/13019/12482/ | 18:15 |
| freemangordon | http://git.doredevelopment.dk/?p=mirror/u-boot-omap.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd420b370b209e093bad391dcf0903609732cd02 | 18:17 |
| freemangordon | pali, do we have that ^^^ ? | 18:18 |
| Pali | where? | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | in uboot | 18:20 |
| Pali | in which version? | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | latest :D | 18:20 |
| Pali | there are more rx51 u-boot version... | 18:20 |
| Pali | if you mean my last rebased patches on top of master, I can look for it | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | on carefully reading the answer by Måns Rullgård in above linked post, I read this as "don't use thumb on OMAP that has the SiERR as it's not at all fixable" | 18:21 |
| Pali | freemangordon: There is none commit with text "687067" on master: http://git.denx.de/?p=u-boot.git&a=search&h=HEAD&st=grep&s=687067 | 18:23 |
| Pali | so no | 18:23 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer: where is that special signing TI tool? | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | and knowing XorA I don't think he " just screwed up something when testing gcc 4.5.x" | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | TI documented the algo, I think signing tools are commonly available based on that | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | but they all need the "private" key matching the "public" key burnt to ROM mask or config flash storage of OMAP | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | you won't get any such private key | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | matching the SOC in N900 | 18:28 |
| Pali | can we get public? | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Mr Flop is sleeping on that one, it's under his pillow | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even that one is available, as you can't read it out from SOC | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | AFAIK | 18:29 |
| freemangordon | well, i really want to build new toolchain and test with it. gcc 4.2.1 has too many bugs to be a reliable thumb working or not benchmark. | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no such benchmark, ever | 18:29 |
| freemangordon | so bbl | 18:29 |
| Pali | ubuntu has arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc 4.6.1 | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless you construct a special code sequence to specifically invoke the bug | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | thus proving it doesn't show up under conditions of that test, and explaining why the conditions are not any special so the result is generally valid for all situations of code and engine state | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | according to axiomatic rule of "you never can prove that something doesn't ever fail" | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | statistics like "runs for me since 6 months now, without the error showing up" are inherently useless | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is not like science and engineering work | 18:34 |
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| * jonwil would give ANYTHING for a copy of connui-cellular source right now :P | 18:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer | btw you know you SHOULD NOT mix binaries built on different versions of gcc, on same system? | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~2119 | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I've seen problems introduced by such mixing several times already | 18:42 |
| freemangordon | Pali, it is most-probably build against newr glibc | 18:42 |
| freemangordon | newer* | 18:42 |
| freemangordon | well, libc | 18:42 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer: why is that? | 18:43 |
| freemangordon | as far as libc version remains the same there should be no problem | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't exactly recall the details, but most probably because of subtle ABI changes anywhere | 18:43 |
| Pali | you can try to rebuild new gcc in scratchbox | 18:43 |
| freemangordon | that is what i am doing | 18:44 |
| Pali | ok | 18:44 |
| freemangordon | but stupid linker "ld: cannot find crt1.o: No such file or directory" | 18:44 |
| freemangordon | cannot figure what is the problem any help? | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | see, you're building new gcc against new libc, now you might have libc idiosyncrasies in gcc that may cause isssues with binaries later using an older libc as found on your tatget - sounds somewhat non-conclusive to me but maybe it's along that line | 18:46 |
| freemangordon | no, I am builbing gcc statically linked with correct target libc | 18:47 |
| freemangordon | and ld is part of binutils | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | or maybe I'm plain wrong this time, and mixing things up. | 18:47 |
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| freemangordon | seems like ./configure switch is missing, but i cannot find which | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | src code incompatibilities are so obvious that we don't need to discuss them here I guess | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically new compilers create new different binaries, even on same source code. Sometimes the new binary code behaves different to former code, and sometimes this is causing problems | 18:50 |
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| freemangordon | is compiling Qt with gcc 4.6.2 and binutils 2.22 :D. lets see how it will be when installed on the device | 21:34 |
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