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| jpala16 | Hello everyone. Anyone can tell how distant is a Stable Maemo 5 CSSU release? | 00:32 |
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| psycho_oreos | jpala16, years away | 01:21 |
| jpala16 | Years? Man, you kidding,right? | 01:23 |
| psycho_oreos | it was a fairly stupid question to begin with, there's lots of factors one needs to consider and for it to go stable could vary in many ways | 01:24 |
| jpala16 | Agree, but as I am kind of disconnected I asked if some1 could make an approach | 01:24 |
| psycho_oreos | it varies on the number of active developers over time, the number of testers whom are also doing their job of reporting back over time, the number of fixes that needs to be addressed and or new ones | 01:25 |
| jpala16 | Ok, you convinced me, hard to imagine | 01:26 |
| psycho_oreos | there isn't a simple calculation of when it'll be stable | 01:26 |
| psycho_oreos | one set of CSSU update maybe more stable than the other | 01:27 |
| jpala16 | sure, but dont really know what are the cbjectives | 01:27 |
| psycho_oreos | its listed on the wiki page | 01:27 |
| psycho_oreos | provide fixes that normally Nokia cbf dealing with | 01:28 |
| jpala16 | so where is the top if bugs remain untouchable? We would be always unstable? | 01:29 |
| psycho_oreos | what do you mean top? the end? I don't know, usually its up to the devs to decide when there's things the community cannot fix | 01:31 |
| jpala16 | Im spanish and my english is sometimes weird | 01:31 |
| psycho_oreos | it all depends on the limitations of each and every developer's contribution | 01:31 |
| jpala16 | sorry for that | 01:31 |
| psycho_oreos | you could have suddenly a developer who has knowledge in being able to decompile binaries and he/she could be helpful for opening up areas where Nokia doesn't provide source codes to write up a GPL alternative which may take several months depending on how big the project itself is, that plus the testing phase. You could have an ex-Nokia engineer whom may provide sources on the project he/she worked on and then suddenly they vanished, etc | 01:34 |
| psycho_oreos | its not something one can easily measure | 01:34 |
| jpala16 | sure it isnt | 01:36 |
| jpala16 | I was asking because I dont have an image in my mind of the hugeness or smallness of the CSSU project | 01:37 |
| psycho_oreos | well picture yourself how big it is for one to create Maemo 5 | 01:37 |
| jpala16 | you mean the CSSU is aiming to fix the WHOLE Maemo 5? | 01:38 |
| psycho_oreos | no I'm just giving you a very rough indication in layman's terms what CSSU is about. There's many areas in Maemo 5 that remains binary | 01:39 |
| lcuk | jpala16, consider this to be like the previous SSU's which aim to patch your system to latest available level. | 01:39 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, there are also many areas which simply do not require touching | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: stable != complete | 01:40 |
| lcuk | jpala16, it all depends upon focus | 01:40 |
| psycho_oreos | lcuk, then again there's areas that could be fixed, had Nokia bothered to release codes for the entire distro | 01:40 |
| lcuk | as psycho_oreos said - the developers are tweaking hildon libs and stuff mostly but as more people find out, more patches are being offered for different areas | 01:40 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, not directly implying that, it was only just a very rough measurement gauge | 01:41 |
| psycho_oreos | and patches don't always fix it, it may cause bugs in other areas | 01:41 |
| jpala16 | that sentence is a really huge truth | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: jpala16 asked for time til CSSU goes stable, that's not the same like a completely FOSSed maemo5 | 01:42 |
| lcuk | psycho_oreos, "offered" was the term | 01:42 |
| lcuk | many patches and branches and tags were tried for the official build | 01:43 |
| lcuk | but only the best made it :) | 01:43 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, no but you care to give jpala16 a definitive answer? | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | a stable CSSU doesn't mean a bugfree maemo either. It's just a question of QA for the patches actually included in CSSU | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: I'd need him to rephrase / rethink his question first | 01:44 |
| jpala16 | I dont need a definitive answer | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not quite clear to me what's the question actually | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | when will CSSU offer a stable release? maybe next week, when we decide to throw out all the not yet tested fixes, and only publish some 2 or 3 improvements. | 01:46 |
| jpala16 | Ok, the question must be rephrased as: Will we see a stable CSSU this year? | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | when will CSSU fix all the bugs known in maemo? never | 01:46 |
| jpala16 | DocScrutinizer Of course, the stable release must fix many bugs but never all of them, thats Utopia | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpala16: I'd guess yes, though it seems this is up to discussion yet | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | CSSU will roll out a stable snapshot when the snapshot is tested and found to be stable. That's unrelated to the percentage or absolute number of fixes included in that particular snapshot | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | for the question of "how long until CSSU has managed to fix XX% of known bugs in maemo?" please refer to all the pointsa stated above by psycho_oreos and lcuk | 01:50 |
| jpala16 | Get it. You mean that they will try to fix some bugs and when that gets tested then it will be the first stable version | 01:50 |
| biston | Has anybody ever seen anything like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlHJnoHrXUg ? | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpala16: exactly | 01:51 |
| biston | it started happening after i installed the cssu transition tuner, and it didn't stop after deinstallation | 01:51 |
| * psycho_oreos sighs | 01:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer | umm | 01:52 |
| lcuk | jpala16, the additional things here are organisation, the CSSU is the first community one | 01:52 |
| lcuk | and lots of things need organising properly | 01:53 |
| lcuk | and some down the line considerations too | 01:53 |
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| jpala16 | I wish I had time to deal with testing. No talk about developing | 01:56 |
| jpala16 | Id like to contribute to accelerate the process, but I havent enough knowledge actually about Maemo, and time as I said | 01:59 |
| lcuk | jpala16, just reading the documentation and discussing as you have done this evening is more productive than you imagine :) | 02:05 |
| jpala16 | lcuk, have to say that just talking to you guys has made me look towards contrinuting to the community | 02:07 |
| jpala16 | I felt something when typing with the N900 kbd through irssi (Im new to IRC). At first, I thought nobody would answer | 02:08 |
| lcuk | everybody is a n00b :) | 02:11 |
| jpala16 | DocScrutiner,lcuk,psycho_oreos: I think Im answered already. Thank you for yor answers and sorry for my english. I can go to bed as it is 01:12 here and Im quite tired. Again, thank u and hope we will meet again. Bye | 02:13 |
| lcuk | good night \o | 02:13 |
| jpala16 | good... whatever XD | 02:14 |
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| macmaN | morning guys | 13:59 |
| merlin1991 | morning | 13:59 |
| macmaN | i am browsing around for external minimonitors, like the 7" usb samsung u70 | 14:00 |
| macmaN | and got to thinking is there a way to utilize the n800, or n810 as a straight usb display | 14:00 |
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| macmaN | a hack *too* humongous probably to undertake? | 14:08 |
| macmaN | ssh-ing into n800 -> to ssh into devserver to display a tmux session seems like a roundtrip, feels like im missing a shortcut :) | 14:12 |
| lcuk | macmaN, write a script, add a .desktop to it, click icon on n800 | 14:16 |
| lcuk | remove the initial ssh session | 14:16 |
| macmaN | actually youre right, i cant even do anything if i ssh into n800 from the laptop :) so ssh has to come from n800. but i think i will want to have it connecting through usb networking using the laptop as gateway | 14:18 |
| macmaN | that should be quite plugnplayish | 14:18 |
| macmaN | from everywhere | 14:19 |
| macmaN | geez the virtual keyboard is cramped on diablo :) | 14:20 |
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| thp | macmaN: but it has cool gestures | 15:48 |
| MohammadAG | thp, the PR1.0 keyboard had gestures :( | 15:50 |
| thp | yep, it was practically the diablo fullscreen keyboard for the most part | 15:54 |
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| Tronic | I've been using CSSU for a few weeks now and must say that it is totally awesome :) | 16:26 |
| Tronic | Big thanks to all the developers. Even if those "small annoying bugs" are trivial, it sure took a community effort to get them fixed... | 16:28 |
| macmaN | Tronic: word to that one | 16:31 |
| macmaN | hrm is there a tmux binary for diablo | 16:31 |
| Tronic | macmaN: Hey, didn't know you had N900 too? | 16:32 |
| macmaN | Tronic: i got em all | 16:32 |
| Tronic | Heh. | 16:32 |
| macmaN | N800, N810 have been quite unused though | 16:33 |
| macmaN | just sitting around | 16:33 |
| macmaN | but i think i have use for them now again | 16:33 |
| Tronic | I only got interested once a phone was bundled but even then it took me several months to get one because no-one managed to communicate me exactly how cool Maemo was. | 16:33 |
| macmaN | N900 was about to get thrown out for android until thp fixed rotation | 16:33 |
| macmaN | full blown linux on the phone is superpower | 16:34 |
| macmaN | with android your like clark kent | 16:34 |
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| macmaN | lookin pretty wearin sexy glasses | 16:34 |
| macmaN | with maemo you go into the phonebooth | 16:34 |
| macmaN | come out with that S on the chest | 16:35 |
| ZogG | macmaN, nice one | 16:35 |
| Tronic | The ability to port over regular desktop software by merely recompiling (or in the case of Python, not even that) is seriously cool and if only someone had told that I could essentially have a Debian desktop on a phone with full (enough) access to hardware and all, I would have been queuing in front of the shop the day they started selling these. | 16:36 |
| macmaN | hey thats imgur material for sure :) | 16:36 |
| macmaN | too bad im busy flashing n800 | 16:36 |
| Tronic | macmaN: The N8xx devices have IR port, right? I suppose you could use them as universal remote controls. | 16:37 |
| Tronic | Just keep the charger connected all the time so that they don't run out of juice. | 16:37 |
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| ZogG | macmaN i want it on reddit | 16:37 |
| macmaN | it wont go into usb mode wth charger connected | 16:38 |
| ZogG | twittered already =) | 16:38 |
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| macmaN | ZogG: lol thx, url? | 16:38 |
| macmaN | Tronic: i already have logitech harmony | 16:38 |
| Tronic | macmaN: I was about to get one too but they seriously suck. | 16:38 |
| macmaN | i beg to disagree | 16:39 |
| macmaN | i have the 885 | 16:39 |
| Tronic | (I do realize that they suck considerably less than other universal remotes, but still I would prefer to have far better UI on my remote controls) | 16:39 |
| macmaN | programming is not fun | 16:39 |
| macmaN | but once you got it... | 16:39 |
| macmaN | its alright | 16:39 |
| ZogG | macmaN i'm hidden in twitter | 16:39 |
| ZogG | @ZogG - the last one (edited as it needed to be 140) | 16:40 |
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| Tronic | macmaN: It would be nice to have far less physical buttons and instead have a touchscreen for numbers and other functions. It is frustrating having to change my grip on the remote to reach different buttons. I almost never use the numbers, the color buttons, most of the device selection buttons, not to mention most of that large array of other miscellanous function buttons. | 16:44 |
| macmaN | ZogG: you confirming me yet? | 16:44 |
| ZogG | already | 16:45 |
| macmaN | Tronic: on what? harmony? youre right i almost never use the numbers there. | 16:45 |
| macmaN | maybe you could repost it with @lkraav :) | 16:46 |
| macmaN | probably cant start the tweet with it though, or it will be a personal msg | 16:47 |
| Tronic | Wait, messages starting @username are private? | 16:48 |
| Tronic | (or did that have something to do with having a hidden account) | 16:49 |
| macmaN | right, they dont appear on public timeline | 16:49 |
| macmaN | for others | 16:49 |
| macmaN | no | 16:50 |
| Tronic | I have been trying to spam messages for multiple users by @foo @bar @baz ... | 16:50 |
| Tronic | So those will only go for the first one? | 16:50 |
| macmaN | thats 1337 twitter knowhow | 16:50 |
| macmaN | that i dont know actually | 16:50 |
| macmaN | good q | 16:50 |
| macmaN | have never wanted to do that | 16:50 |
| Tronic | Not that I really use Twitter anymore, just terminated my character yesterday :P | 16:51 |
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| macmaN | i find it a useful tool | 16:51 |
| macmaN | lord knows when i wouldve found out about thp for example otherwise | 16:52 |
| macmaN | my thoughts about maemo and meego have taken a new turn ever since that | 16:52 |
| macmaN | you could say twitter is a life altering experience for me :P | 16:53 |
| Tronic | Btw, did you hear that Nokia is also targeting MeeGo for N900 now (officially still only for developers though)? | 16:53 |
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| macmaN | Tronic: yep of course | 16:53 |
| Tronic | I never got notified of either of those things via Twitter :/ | 16:54 |
| macmaN | im subscribed to so many maemo meego feeds i probably know when a lead developer farts and what his average fart rate per day is | 16:54 |
| macmaN | woot, diablo flashed and cssu installed | 16:54 |
| macmaN | ZogG: looks like its not possible to retweet private tweeters :/ | 16:59 |
| ZogG | just try sending with RT or just copy | 17:01 |
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| macmaN | yeah i made my own too now | 17:03 |
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| Tronic | The only thing with MeeGo is that it has a *long* way to go if it is going to be able to replace Maemo. | 17:08 |
| Tronic | Btw, has there been any attempts at porting Maemo to other Nokia phones? | 17:08 |
| macmaN | Tronic: i was actually asking questions about getting a development job in #meego-arm couple of days ago | 17:08 |
| Tronic | 256 MB is quite not enough for me :( | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | other Nokia phones have a locked bootloader | 17:09 |
| Tronic | Also A8 @ 1150 MHz is still somewhat slow. | 17:09 |
| BCMM | has any experimented with using very fast uSD cards as swap? | 17:10 |
| BCMM | ^anyone | 17:10 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK on #maemo | 17:10 |
| Tronic | BCMM: Yes but apparently the card speed doesn't make that much difference, it is still slow. | 17:10 |
| BCMM | well, ofc it would be much slower than real memory | 17:11 |
| lcuk | Tronic, perspective is everything | 17:11 |
| MohammadAG | moving swap to uSD might be faster | 17:11 |
| MohammadAG | right now, eMMC is being accessed for apps and swap | 17:11 |
| BCMM | or do you mean that the read speed from a uSD doesn't match the uSD's own read speed due to limitations in the n900? | 17:11 |
| MohammadAG | moving swap would get some load off the eMMC | 17:11 |
| Tronic | Maybe swap on the root device would be good? 200 MB isn't much bet it just might be enough for your swapping needs. | 17:12 |
| Tronic | *but | 17:12 |
| MohammadAG | lowering swap isn't a good idea ;) | 17:12 |
| Tronic | BCMM: Yes, that, even though I have only seen subjective testimonials about there being no difference between Class 4 and Class 10, no actual benchmarks. | 17:13 |
| Tronic | MohammadAG: You could still have a lower priority swap on eMMC. | 17:13 |
| MohammadAG | sec | 17:13 |
| MohammadAG | found it | 17:14 |
| Tronic | That said, it would also be great to have a larger high performance flash disk. | 17:14 |
| MohammadAG | http://i53.tinypic.com/21b3k7s.jpg | 17:14 |
| MohammadAG | Tronic, ^ | 17:14 |
| BCMM | ok how the hell does that work? have they broken oom_kill, or just modified the app launcher so it ensures there is a certain amount of memory available? | 17:15 |
| MohammadAG | hildon-desktop checks for available memory afaiki | 17:16 |
| Tronic | Quite likely the latter. | 17:16 |
| MohammadAG | -i | 17:16 |
| BCMM | that's silly, since it can't know how much memory an application is going to require... | 17:16 |
| Tronic | My phone often simply reboots when it runs out of memory (I think), so it could be that oom_killer ain't so hot either. | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | no, your phone reboots when the overclock goes bonkers :P | 17:17 |
| Tronic | It happens also without overclocking. | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | low memory doesn't cause a reboot | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | I'd start worrying if I were you ;) | 17:17 |
| MohammadAG | unless you're crashing a critical system app, somehow | 17:18 |
| Tronic | Ok, quite possibly there is something else wrong then. | 17:18 |
| Tronic | I cannot quite pinpoint at which situations this happens in but the phone is always acting very slowly when it goes (it actually happens rather rarely). | 17:19 |
| Tronic | Btw, is there any way to disable automatic software updates? | 17:22 |
| MohammadAG | auto check? | 17:22 |
| Tronic | The best that my local N900 community has came up with is to disable all repositories in appman and then use fapman for upgrades. | 17:22 |
| MohammadAG | HAM is open source, you could change that | 17:22 |
| BCMM | Tronic: "It happens also without overclocking." - yeah, OCing does that... | 17:23 |
| Tronic | The check is triggered by the Internet connection going up and I suppose this causes some signal that launches the check. | 17:23 |
| macmaN | Tronic: there was a gconf setting to change check interval | 17:23 |
| BCMM | that, or oom_kill is targeting something like h-d | 17:23 |
| Tronic | I haven't been successful in finding where that signal happens. | 17:23 |
| macmaN | Tronic: no, it isnt triggered by only that, there is also a time interval defined | 17:24 |
| macmaN | but it is very short right now, something like 24h or 48h | 17:24 |
| lcuk | macmaN, the setting still exists ;) | 17:24 |
| MohammadAG | yes, there's a time interval | 17:24 |
| Tronic | macmaN: I have set that interval to a very large value already. | 17:24 |
| lcuk | ie not past tense :P | 17:24 |
| BCMM | i think if oom_kill did take out hildon-desktop, then when hildon-desktop respawned, it'd be a process with a short cpu-time trying to claim lots of memory | 17:24 |
| BCMM | and get killed again | 17:24 |
| macmaN | hold on let me dig bookmarks | 17:24 |
| BCMM | triggering the watchdog thingy | 17:24 |
| macmaN | Tronic: ohhh | 17:24 |
| macmaN | then im stumped, im happy with what that does for me | 17:25 |
| Tronic | I guess this might be a thing to fix in CSSU. | 17:25 |
| BCMM | (oom_kill prefers processes with large amounts of memory that have not used too much CPU time so far, since that suggests not too much work can be lost by killing it) | 17:25 |
| Tronic | One probably wouldn't want any automatic updates on mobile connections, even less so when roaming. | 17:26 |
| Tronic | I ended up downloading 50 € worth of data because of that because I just had to check a phone number online while in Germany. | 17:26 |
| macmaN | wow | 17:27 |
| Tronic | So the very second I went online it started getting updates (and I suppose all the IM stuff, emails etc. also takes some) and even though I tried to be quick with the browser and then disconnect, a lot of data was transferred. | 17:27 |
| BCMM | how do i get a proper /usr/bin/top on this thing? | 17:29 |
| BCMM | (alternatively, how do i get TIME+ from /proc myself?) | 17:29 |
| Tronic | BCMM: Does htop suit your needs? | 17:30 |
| BCMM | yeah, it would | 17:30 |
| BCMM | oh, there is actually a procps package | 17:31 |
| BCMM | wonder how it plays with busybox... | 17:32 |
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| macmaN | there is no better app launcher for diablo is there | 18:50 |
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| lcuk | macmaN, perhaps not launcher, but have you installed telescope? | 18:51 |
| macmaN | yep | 18:52 |
| macmaN | skype, dropbear sshd, telescope, droid-fonts, rootsh, vim, asui, x11vnc, load-applet, bash3, headphone-daemon, maemo-control-usb, maemo.org-startup-screen | 18:52 |
| macmaN | oh gotta have python2.5 too for ranger | 18:52 |
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| macmaN | too bad dorian doesnt seem to be ported | 18:55 |
| macmaN | judging from tmo, personal launcher is as good as its gonna get | 18:57 |
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| macmaN | ok telescope was also supposed to get a launcher feature.. | 18:59 |
| macmaN | aaah telescope dev builds have more stuff | 19:01 |
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| macmaN | yeah, telescope rc will do juuust fine | 20:00 |
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| MohammadAG | Jaffa, thoughts on Conflict:-ing with theme-customizer? | 22:02 |
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| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Apparently the latest version doesn't overwrite hildon-home, but maybe Conflicts: <latest version? | 22:34 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: and/or a HildonNote post-install if TC enabled saying "Some of Theme Customizers functions are achieved by intercepting the lowest levels of the Maemo UI. These features are not available whilst using the CSSU" | 22:35 |
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| njsf1 | Hmmm how should I fix CSS features configuration util (just updated) "Reading the configuration settings gave a fatal error while loading. not all settings are available exiting" | 22:52 |
| njsf1 | Where should I look for the features configuration to see what could be wrong? | 22:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so let's see what's that CSSU thing :-) | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought I better install it now, prior to booting my device anyway to insert SIM after cherrysmashing | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: cssu enabler install requester needs a "(scroll down ➘ please)" inserted between/after "... own risk." and "/n/n After installation..." | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | alternatively remove the two empty lines at beginning of text | 23:35 |
| njsf1 | should I avoid forcing an upgrade of libsdl-mixer1.2 ? | 23:38 |
| njsf1 | Interesting after apt-get upgrade CSSU features configuration works again | 23:41 |
| njsf1 | it seems FAM did not do all it could :P | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | FAM? | 23:42 |
| njsf1 | Fast Application Manager | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh fapman | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | fapman is known to fail on random (or not so random) occasions | 23:44 |
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