IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Saturday, 2011-03-05

*** faari-ddr has quit IRC00:01
*** AsiQue has joined #maemo-ssu00:10
AsiQueHey all, can i run hildon-desktop as a debug application in esbox?00:23
*** rhkfin has joined #maemo-ssu00:50
rhkfinHi there. How long is the CSSU installation supposed to take? I've had it running for about an hour. Black screen, backlight works. No SSH over WLAN response any more.00:51
RST38hIt is dead, Jim00:51
rhkfin..00:51
rhkfinIs there anything else to do but restart and then.. reflash if it doesn't work..?00:52
rhkfinI take flashing the rootfs is enough?00:55
ThreeMit takes 10min to install cssu01:01
rhkfinok so it's a fail :/01:01
rhkfinI'll try to restart and see what happens..01:01
*** ZogG has quit IRC01:01
lcukrhkfin, can you run over what happened before the black screen, any anomolies01:02
*** ZogG has joined #maemo-ssu01:02
rhkfinNothing I'd concider unexpected. went to wiki page, clicked the install button, started SSU, asked for permissions to add repository, install, warning about SSU being unstable or so. Then it finished, I ran the CSSU app from menu, that started the SSU again to upgrade CSSU. Recommended backups, did that and.. hmm.. don't know/remember how far I got..01:04
rhkfinHmm.. on the first run, I did press cancel when being asked a question, just to restart and take screenshots of what happens. I think it was the 'are you sure you want to install CSSU....' screen.01:05
rhkfinlcuk: Repository was already installed and package downloaded when I pressed cancel so I suppose it was that extra 'are you sure...' question01:06
DocScrutinizerrhkfin: aiui CSSU needs a reboot at a particular point n time.01:06
rhkfinDocScrutinizer: ok.. and if it doesn't get that it'll fail & kill the system?01:07
rhkfinSo maybe I now restart.01:07
DocScrutinizerfor sure waiting another hour won't help anything ;-)01:08
rhkfinI pressed the power button shortly and got the menu!01:08
DocScrutinizerheh01:08
DocScrutinizer:-D01:08
rhkfinthe power menu, I mean. But that doesn't really help, I take..01:08
rhkfinnow i saw the keylock screen ;)01:09
DocScrutinizerI'd guess system can't be really messed up completely if you get that powerbutton menu01:09
rhkfinright01:09
DocScrutinizersometimes even *nix needs a reboot ;-D01:10
rhkfinThere's not much useful I can do in the powerbutton menu01:10
DocScrutinizershut down maybe?01:10
rhkfinDocScrutinizer: indeed, restart on N900 s sometimes needed..01:10
rhkfinyes, shutdown - and it actually restarts automatically01:10
rhkfinno, it didn't..01:11
DocScrutinizernota bene a plugged charger keeps device from shutting down normally01:12
rhkfinok, I see, that's why.01:12
rhkfinAsked for code and started to desktop. NOt bad :)01:12
rhkfinyay, seems to work, at least the portrait menu mode..01:13
DocScrutinizerthat's why reflashing (actually reboot after flashing) is best done on battery power, not when plugged to any USB01:14
rhkfinthe scrolling is FAAAAAAST01:14
rhkfinright.. But installed recommended to use wall charger.. Maybe this could be added to FAQ?01:14
DocScrutinizerIt should01:15
rhkfinI guess there isn't much that the software could do to make it work better?01:15
*** andre__ has quit IRC01:15
DocScrutinizeractually it should get added to reboot warning when flashing kernels etc, everything that needs a reboot should notify user to unplug USB prior to boot01:16
rhkfintrue01:16
DocScrutinizerprior to shutdown to be precise01:17
ThreeMhmm01:19
ThreeMwhen i use the backup tool, will it restore all configurations include all installed apps?01:19
lcukThreeM, a backup will write all configuration options for all apps that have them configured01:21
lcukand also a list of applications to install01:21
rhkfinAdded the boot issue to FAQ: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Installation_FAQ01:21
ThreeMthat is very nice. thx01:21
lcukwhen you restore, it first restores the options to the folders, then presents HAM with a ticklist to reinstall the apps01:21
lcukit saves the selected repository lists too01:21
lcukso, generally a very thorough process01:22
rhkfinthat is indeed nice!01:22
rhkfinDidn't know it works that well!01:22
DocScrutinizerlcuk: (thorough process) only if the repo still has an installable version of the app01:26
lcukDocScrutinizer, it does the best it possibly can.01:26
DocScrutinizerwhich it doesn't for most of the PR1.2 -testing and -devel apps01:27
* lcuk finds that admirable01:27
DocScrutinizerand sure it's admirable, just a pity the repo management broke it for PR1.201:28
rhkfin:D Can't take a screenshot with ctrl+shift+P on portrait mode ;)01:29
rhkfin('cause no portrait if keyboard's shown :)01:30
*** lardman has joined #maemo-ssu01:31
BCMMrhkfin: just don't open the keyboard all the way01:32
BCMMor override with ctrl-alt-blue-l01:32
rhkfinuhhhh... ctrl shift blue L - hard stuff for my fingers ;)01:32
rhkfinBut succeeded :)01:33
*** ZogG has quit IRC01:33
*** lardman_ has quit IRC01:34
*** ZogG has joined #maemo-ssu01:34
rhkfinInteresting, so ctrl+shift+blue+L for example on menu doesn't reorganize the icons so many are left out of the screen?01:38
DocScrutinizerctrl-shift-blue-<any-key> is hard stuff for the keyboard matrix as well. There are quite a number of combinations with only two qualifier keys plus regular char key that simply fail as the matrix can't detect them resp can't distinguish which of two combinations resulting in same bit pattern on matrix lines is the one actually pressed01:45
DocScrutinizerso whoever invented ctrl-shift-blue-L better makes damn sure there's no collisions on matrix for that particular one01:46
rhkfinhaha :)01:48
*** NIN101 has quit IRC01:48
DocScrutinizersee http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Subsystems#Keyboard01:49
*** mirakels has quit IRC01:50
*** lardman has quit IRC01:50
rhkfinDo you remember what was the bug that some process (the lock app?) started to eat resources slowly requiring a restart every two days or so?01:54
rhkfin(hmm.. my dad found some weird keyboard layout bug, need to ask what was it about.. I think it was that the layout and the produced characters didn't match on cyrillic.. something..)01:56
DocScrutinizeriirc that's been mere swap fragmentation, when the sum of sequential writes hit the end of the 768M partition so following writes had to use scattered blocks01:56
rhkfinHas there been a fix / is it fixable?01:59
DocScrutinizerthis is a hw limitation and not fixable02:08
DocScrutinizerooh, you mean swap frag02:08
DocScrutinizeryeah, swapon <new-swap> && swapoff <used-swap>02:09
rhkfinok, I see..02:11
rhkfinis there a way to check the fragmentation rate (to see if that's the one causing the slowing down)02:11
rhkfinwell, ignore that..02:12
DocScrutinizershadowjk has a script for that :-) http://enivax.net/jk/n900/reswap.sh.txt02:14
rhkfinnice, thanks!02:15
ThreeMfor what?02:15
rhkfinThreeM: 'reset' swap02:15
rhkfinalong time it gets fragmented -> slow02:15
rhkfinresetting makes it faster again02:15
ThreeMöhm, its flashmemory or?02:16
ThreeMhow can fragmentation cause lower performance?!02:16
rhkfinThreeM: 01:56 < DocScrutinizer> iirc that's been mere swap fragmentation, when the sum of sequential writes hit the end of the 768M partition so following writes had to use scattered blocks02:17
ThreeMoh sorry im overread it02:17
rhkfinnp02:18
rhkfinnow zzz..02:18
DocScrutinizerThreeM: on flash fragmentation is a huge problem, as flash can write to ~128k "sectors" only02:18
DocScrutinizerso each write of a 512byte block can cause an actual read-modify-write cycle of a new 128k sector02:19
DocScrutinizerso, on fragmentation, the write speed may slow down by a factor (based on above figures) of 25602:21
DocScrutinizerthat's worst case of course, just to show you there *is* an issue02:21
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo-ssu02:39
*** wmarone__ has joined #maemo-ssu03:03
*** lcuk2 has joined #maemo-ssu03:03
*** wmarone_ has quit IRC03:04
*** Dhraakellian has quit IRC03:04
*** lcuk has quit IRC03:06
*** chainsawbike has quit IRC03:08
*** chainsawbike has joined #maemo-ssu03:11
*** AsiQue has quit IRC03:21
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC03:22
*** Dhraakellian has joined #maemo-ssu03:23
*** BCMM has quit IRC03:28
*** trbs has quit IRC03:28
*** ZogG has quit IRC03:39
*** ZogG has joined #maemo-ssu03:39
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC04:18
*** ZogG has quit IRC04:22
*** ZogG has joined #maemo-ssu04:22
*** lcuk2 has quit IRC04:25
*** ZogG has quit IRC04:57
*** ZogG has joined #maemo-ssu04:57
*** lcuk has joined #maemo-ssu05:46
*** lcuk has quit IRC05:46
*** lcuk has joined #maemo-ssu05:46
*** psycho_oreos has joined #maemo-ssu06:00
*** ZogG has quit IRC07:29
*** ZogG has joined #maemo-ssu07:29
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC07:31
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo-ssu07:31
*** fiberspeed has quit IRC09:18
*** mirr0r has joined #maemo-ssu09:18
*** mirr0r is now known as fiberspeed09:48
*** AsiQue has joined #maemo-ssu10:39
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo-ssu10:42
*** psycho_oreos has quit IRC11:00
MohammadAGisn't this all off topic here :p11:25
Lava_Croftand isnt it solved by just rebooting11:27
Lava_Croftnon issue11:27
JaffaMorning, all11:40
Lava_Croftmo11:43
thphey ho12:01
thpcan we get rid of the system-upgrade-type updates for "small" cssu cssu updatse? so we don't always need to restart and close all apps on each update?12:01
Jaffathp: I don't see how - you don't know how big a jump the user is taking12:10
Lava_Croftthat could be determined during the install process12:13
JaffaLava_Croft: But the reboot flag for HAM is on the package description. So it'd need a new bit of code writing to simulate it12:13
Jaffa...dynamically at runtime.12:14
JaffaPatches welcome :-)12:14
Lava_Croft:)12:15
rhkfinMohammadAG: what is on-topic here? SSU yes but.. how to limit it.. I this case I started talking about the bug (that's ropably the swap thing as DocScrutinizer wrote) thinking if it is/could/will be included in CSSU..12:15
rhkfinLava_Croft: also UI freezes are solved by just rebooting -> not issues..?12:15
MohammadAGrhkfin, ah, nevermind, thought it was just random discussion12:16
rhkfinok :)12:16
rhkfinOther than that, CSSU is great.12:16
rhkfinIt just gives an extra boost to the UI speed making it nice smooth12:17
MohammadAGJaffa, do you mind testing if changing the 0 to 1 in /etc/powervr.d/hildon-desktop.ini breaks anything?12:20
MohammadAGhad it set for 3 days, no problems, it used to crash the whole device before12:21
MohammadAGso I'm guessing it was fixed upstream, somewhere12:21
Lava_Croftsame, still no crash12:23
Lava_Croftnon-cssu friend srtill no crash too12:23
Lava_Croft-r12:23
JaffaMohammadAG: And what's the effect?12:24
MohammadAGJaffa, smoother transitions12:25
JaffaLooks shitter when panning desktop12:26
Jaffa(to me: more bunching up, like vertical interlacing on a non-interlaced display)12:27
MohammadAGi'm guessing you restarted the desktop?12:27
JaffaRebooted12:27
JaffaTransitions into and out of task switcher/launcher are smoother but slower.12:27
JaffaDefault transitions.ini with zaxisrotation12:27
* MohammadAG has blurless set to 112:28
*** marcels has joined #maemo-ssu13:41
*** BCMM has joined #maemo-ssu13:47
*** Venemo has joined #maemo-ssu13:58
*** obironbo has quit IRC14:06
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo-ssu14:06
*** _NIN has joined #maemo-ssu14:08
*** NIN101 has quit IRC14:09
*** psycho_oreos has joined #maemo-ssu14:10
thpJaffa: hmm as a power-user, i could just dist-upgrade from the command line and have the same effect, right?14:16
thpMohammadAG: so vsync works now?14:17
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo-ssu14:19
MohammadAGthp, it's not vsync14:19
Jaffathp: Yes, but as a power user you can deal with the fall out ;-)14:19
MohammadAGvsync is missing on the kernel level :p14:20
Jaffathp: Detecting whether a reboot is necessary in mp-fremantle-community-pr and prompting in postinst seems sensible though14:20
MohammadAGthp, upgrade will be enough14:20
thpMohammadAG: so what's that setting in that file in powervr.d then?14:20
Jaffathp: Setting hwsync=1 degrades performance when using blurless=014:20
MohammadAGthp, it just makes sure all frames take the same time afaik14:20
MohammadAGor something like that14:20
thpJaffa: just thought it'd be a good idea, as we have such a high update frequency now14:20
JaffaAnd I'm seeing a small graphics corruption (about 4x3 pixels) on notifications14:21
Jaffathp: Agreed. Just a question of doing the work :-)14:21
MohammadAGJaffa, that's a bug in hildon-desktop14:21
MohammadAGit corrupts graphics randomly14:21
thpJaffa: for me, doing it with apt-get in a terminal is fine, so no need to implement it for me ;)14:21
JaffaMohammadAG: Yeah, but I'd not seen it until the reboot with hwsync=114:21
MohammadAGreboot again, it'll be gone :p14:22
MohammadAGit's a coincidence I guess14:22
MohammadAGthen again...14:22
thpJaffa: maybe a side effect of OCing?14:22
MohammadAGJaffa, highlight me14:22
Jaffathp: Not overclocked, but looks similar to the effect you get with undervoltage14:28
JaffaMohammadAG: ?14:28
thpJaffa: (offtopic) for the qt quick compile problem: add #include <QtDeclarative> at the top - that could help :)14:30
*** trbs has joined #maemo-ssu14:40
*** ^24seven_ is now known as ^24seven14:55
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo-ssu15:16
*** crashanddie_ has joined #maemo-ssu15:16
*** andre__ has joined #maemo-ssu15:31
*** andre__ has joined #maemo-ssu15:31
Jaffathp: It did indeed. Thanks :-)15:37
Jaffathp: Now I've found the SIS files for Symbian and can install them over BT, I'm hoping to see it running ton the N8 too15:37
Jaffathp: Is there a constant in Qt/QML for "gravity" e.g. 9.8...15:38
Jaffa?15:38
rhkfinJaffa: it's not constant ;)15:39
Jaffarhkfin: No, but...15:39
rhkfinYou need to use the location of the user and then correlate that to... ;D15:40
Lava_CroftMaybe anyone here knows, but if you make a parallel between PC games15:40
rhkfin(no, I have no answer)15:40
Lava_Croftwhat would be the prettiest PC game that would run on the N90015:40
Lava_Croftif ported properly15:40
Lava_CroftI know that Quake3 era stuff runs fine15:40
Lava_CroftA friend of mine is creating http://osirion.org/ and wonder if N900 would be powerful enough15:40
Lava_CroftJust to stay completely on topic ;)15:41
rhkfinLava_Croft: something with an easy UI to play..15:41
Lava_Croftrhkfin: i mean performance wise15:41
rhkfinright15:41
* psycho_oreos wonders how is this even remotely related to the use of CSSU packages15:42
psycho_oreosand no, its been tested before that N900 can struggle when its running stuff made for PCs15:43
rhkfinpsycho_oreos: hmm.. give us 10 minutes and we'll come up with an explanation ;)15:43
JaffaMore people in #maemo; use that :-p15:43
Lava_Croftoreo is a lovely kind of cookie, but the answer is a bit odd15:43
psycho_oreosrhkfin, more like a boot :)15:43
Lava_CroftJaffa: true, im just lazy15:43
Lava_Croftwhich is why i already mentioned how it was so on topic :)15:43
psycho_oreoss/on/off/15:44
Lava_Croft1441 < Lava_Croft> Just to stay completely on topic ;)15:44
Lava_Crofton :)15:44
Lava_Croftanyhow, this is silly15:44
psycho_oreosrun his game on N900 and then see the performance, no need to go pondering15:44
Lava_Croftnot everything is a simple matter of just running it on the N90015:45
Lava_Croftbut thanks for the advice15:45
psycho_oreosindeed not everything is as easy as making it to run on N900 but different platforms serves different purposes. N900 is classed as embedded device, PC on the other hand you have people talking about x86 arch not the arm arch15:46
Lava_Croftfantastic news, but how is this useful15:47
Lava_Croftthanks for the advice anyway15:47
psycho_oreosit wasn't meant to be useful, it was a mere comment15:48
AsiQueMohammadAG: how do i install and debug athe hildon-desktop under esbox? is it possible? i can't even install the .deb file15:53
AsiQuei hope i'm not off-topic here... :-) had my wrist slapped once or twice...15:55
AsiQueanyone else?15:57
merlin1991AsiQue, you can't go more ot than Lava_Croft just did :D16:06
Lava_CroftThat's not even remotely hard to accomplish, really! :D16:07
AsiQuesorry, didn't understand that...16:09
* rhkfin is a bit surprised how strictly on-topicness (?) is required here16:09
AsiQueand now i did :-)16:10
rhkfin(not that it'd be wrong but it surprises every now and then :)16:10
merlin1991I dunno, I never saw anything happening about ot in here16:11
rhkfinot being on or off?16:15
AsiQueanyway... i'm trying to debug hildon-desktop but the console tells me that i need to be root (on the emulator) so is it possible?16:16
*** rhkfin has left #maemo-ssu16:29
*** AsiQue has left #maemo-ssu17:04
*** AsiQue has joined #maemo-ssu17:04
*** AsiQue has quit IRC17:45
*** AsiQue has joined #maemo-ssu17:52
*** normaltusker has joined #maemo-ssu17:52
*** _NIN has quit IRC19:12
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo-ssu19:13
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC19:25
*** normaltusker has quit IRC19:26
*** fiberspeed has quit IRC19:28
*** crashanddie_ has quit IRC20:01
*** AsiQue has quit IRC20:20
*** marcels has quit IRC20:31
*** Sc0rpius has quit IRC20:36
*** Brownout_ has joined #maemo-ssu20:46
*** w00t___ is now known as w00t_20:46
*** w00t_ has joined #maemo-ssu20:46
*** Brownout has quit IRC20:47
*** Sc0rpius has joined #maemo-ssu20:49
*** BCMM has quit IRC21:02
*** marcels has joined #maemo-ssu21:06
*** andre__ has quit IRC21:13
*** andre__ has joined #maemo-ssu21:24
*** BCMM has joined #maemo-ssu21:31
*** trumee has quit IRC22:34
*** trumee has joined #maemo-ssu22:36
*** marcels has quit IRC23:05
*** jpala16 has joined #maemo-ssu23:25
*** arcean has joined #maemo-ssu23:47
*** jpala16 has quit IRC23:50
*** s1gk1ll has quit IRC23:51
*** s1gk1ll has joined #maemo-ssu23:51
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo-ssu23:58

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!