IRC log of #maemo-meeting for Friday, 2013-04-05

*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC00:02
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC00:58
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo-meeting01:12
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC01:49
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo-meeting02:15
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC02:22
*** kolp has quit IRC02:37
*** Woody14619 has quit IRC04:38
*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC06:03
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo-meeting06:03
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo-meeting10:05
*** freemangordon has left #maemo-meeting10:05
*** kolp has joined #maemo-meeting10:06
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo-meeting10:07
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo-meeting12:40
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo-meeting12:40
*** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo-meeting15:40
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC16:07
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo-meeting16:10
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo-meeting16:10
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC17:07
DocScrutinizer05please early-post topics for meeting (T+3:22)17:39
sixwheeledbeast##package rating broken? ##package promotion broken? ##*patch? :)17:53
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: I gather the first two are a maintenance issue and related to www.m.o login?18:03
DocScrutinizer05third one is clearly an 30s topic for meeting18:04
sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: eh, yes is there a better place to report?18:04
DocScrutinizer05you already reported on #maemo, and I forwarded it18:04
sixwheeledbeastta, didn't know if it needed "official" reporting somewhere?18:06
DocScrutinizer05it needs somebody to take care about it18:06
DocScrutinizer05"official" way was to send a mail to techstaff@m.o, but that's not exactly needed as long as we can deal with it directly18:07
sixwheeledbeastI'll keep that in mind for future issues, ty18:08
DocScrutinizer05well, actually the "official" way would be a ticket filed on b.m.o, against infra or whatever (which makes me ponder if that subsystem is already assigned to the proper mailaddr so techstaff would even notice new tickets there)18:30
DocScrutinizer05yeah, sorry for OT18:31
DocScrutinizer05  >>   For problems related to websites (,,,,,, ...) Note: Documentation bugs should be filed in the "Documentation" classification instead!<<18:36
qwazixoops, yeah daylight savings, one hour early20:08
DocScrutinizer05that's new20:40
DocScrutinizer05##topic red-button20:45
DocScrutinizer05##topic  (with /etc/hosts hack)20:46
DocScrutinizer05##topic login works20:47
DocScrutinizer05##topic *patch removal, veto-period ( expired, execute20:48
DocScrutinizer05##topic MAEMO COUNCIL ELECTION big adverising effort, call for volunteers20:49
*** MentalistTraceur has joined #maemo-meeting20:59
DocScrutinizer05Hi Hi everybody !21:00
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: c'mon, you used a timer to do this21:00
MentalistTraceurLol, nah, I was just on my N900 already. :)21:01
MentalistTraceur(And I do use a clock in the status menu that shows seconds...)21:01
MentalistTraceurAnyway, I just sent a second draft of the big-red announcement.21:02
DocScrutinizer05just came in21:03
MentalistTraceurMoved a couple of things to the footnotes, added a few lines here/there, and pointed out that even if you ignore the fact that we should count as HiFo council as well,21:03
DocScrutinizer05hi warfare21:03
MentalistTraceurthe Board had more than 7 days of (Directors < 3).21:03
DocScrutinizer05fine :-)21:03 they should be having an election anyway.21:04
DocScrutinizer05you seen my list of topics in chanlog?21:04
MentalistTraceurNot yet.21:04
DocScrutinizer05meh, I#ll post it again21:05
DocScrutinizer05[2013-04-05 19:45:33] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic red-button21:05
DocScrutinizer05[2013-04-05 19:45:59] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic  (with /etc/hosts hack)21:05
DocScrutinizer05[2013-04-05 19:46:29] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic
DocScrutinizer05[2013-04-05 19:47:12] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic login works21:05
DocScrutinizer05[2013-04-05 19:48:51] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic *patch removal, veto-period ( expired, execute21:05
DocScrutinizer05[2013-04-05 19:49:46] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic MAEMO COUNCIL ELECTION big adverising effort, call for volunteers21:05
MentalistTraceur(I ended up opening the URL and reading it anyway)21:06
MentalistTraceurBut thanks for posting.21:06
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: pingping21:07
MentalistTraceurAnyway, I would like to add/include into the Big Red topic, "finalize election eligibility criteria".21:07
DocScrutinizer05ooh, you're here21:07
MentalistTraceurJust so we are all clear exactly what's happening with that.21:07
qwazixDocScrutinizer pong21:07
DocScrutinizer05fine, so let's move the topics tending to be timehogs to the end, and start with the lightweight stuff?21:08
MentalistTraceurSo anyway, meeting is in session. First topic, Big Red Button.21:08
MentalistTraceurOr we can do lightweight stuff, that's good too.21:09
DocScrutinizer05I's suggest to start with stuff I can finish in ~60s per topic21:09
MentalistTraceurEither way this meeting will take a while, so sure.21:09
MentalistTraceurProceed in the order you'd like.21:09
DocScrutinizer05##topic *patch removal, veto-period ( expired, execute21:09
DocScrutinizer05the topic says it all21:09
DocScrutinizer05just mentioning21:09
DocScrutinizer05any comments, objections?21:10
MentalistTraceurOne comment: I think it would be nice if we clearly stated in general terms under what conditions the council/tech staff will act to remove packages.21:10
qwazixno, proceed21:10
MentalistTraceurNot particular rules, just explicitly state it,21:11
DocScrutinizer05ok, I take that for a no. So techstaff will proceed to remove those two pkgs from maemo and maemo-testing repos21:11
MentalistTraceurso that the community as a whole knows exactly when to expect it to happen.21:11
MentalistTraceurAnd indeed, no objections to techstaff proceeding with removal.21:11
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast has clearly noted what's been flawed in pkgs and in testing21:11
* sixwheeledbeast nods21:13
DocScrutinizer05I can state it here again: any pkg that conflicts with the QA rules as linked to in my post I linked above and has passed testing due to testers been doing a crap job, will get removed as soon as somebody is clearly exposing that fact publicly and makes it known to council21:13
qwazixMentalistTraceur, you could include the above in minutes and it should be enough21:14
DocScrutinizer05council will be less reluctant to do so, when the package actually is *dangerous* as defined in QA rules21:14
DocScrutinizer05next topic?21:15
DocScrutinizer05##topic login works21:15
DocScrutinizer05thanks to warfare for looking into it. Testing of all login-related/depending stuff by communty solicited21:15
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: seems you should be able to post meeting minutes the supposed way again21:16
DocScrutinizer05we should announce referendum and pending elections there as well, ASAP21:17
DocScrutinizer05next topic?21:17
DocScrutinizer05woody made a nice web frontend for voting / elections-setup21:18
DocScrutinizer05it's allegedly self-explanatory, though I failed to find my way thru it, particularly fro creating new electorate (we will pick up on this when we discuss electorate eligibility rules later)21:19
MentalistTraceur(For the record I think that said policy of removal ought to be placed on the Council wiki page, so that it's permanently visible on an easily-discoverable location, and not just to be found in meeting minutes and chan logs by those who know to look. But I can do that in spare time.) Agreed about announcing elections and referendum the official way now that login works.21:19
MentalistTraceurAgreed re "allegedly self-explanatory" - how do we change the default password, for instance?21:20
DocScrutinizer05we *ought* already have started sending out tokens/ballots for referendum, but we are still missing proper electorate and woody's suggestion to use last election's electorate db as probably nobody vanished or lost karma didn't come real21:21
MentalistTraceur(Found change-password functionality just now.)21:21
MentalistTraceurWhat was wrong with last electorate's DB?21:21
DocScrutinizer05nothing, it's just not up to date21:22
DocScrutinizer05but a good base to _start_ sending mails out21:22
DocScrutinizer05alas woody is just this moment not available (GOOD LUCK, buddy!), so we're hosed with this,since we have no clue what's the mechanism behind that frontend21:23
DocScrutinizer05we will pick up on that in maybe 2 or 3 days21:23
qwazixyeah, good luck to woody21:23
DocScrutinizer05next topic?21:24
DocScrutinizer05##topic  (with /etc/hosts hack)21:24
DocScrutinizer05I did a little fancy this afternoon and looked into scratchbox.maemo.org21:24
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991 took over when my skills failed21:24
DocScrutinizer05we managed to get something working that should suffice to install scratchbox21:25
DocScrutinizer05(the SDK)21:25
DocScrutinizer05alas we have no control over DNS yet21:25
DocScrutinizer05so if you wanna use that, you need a etc/hosts hack once again21:26
DocScrutinizer05213.128.137.24  scratchbox.org21:26
DocScrutinizer05213.128.137.24  lists.scratchbox.org21:26
DocScrutinizer05213.128.137.24  bugzilla.scratchbox.org21:26
thedead1440apologies for the scratchbox thing21:26
DocScrutinizer05213.128.137.24  live.scratchbox.org21:26
thedead1440i'm still overseas so couldn't look into it further than do the mounting just before i left21:26
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: np, it been fsckdup anyway21:27
DocScrutinizer05next topic?21:27
MentalistTraceurWhat if you just manually use the IP? Will that work?21:27
thedead1440MentalistTraceur: yup21:27
DocScrutinizer05should work21:27
DocScrutinizer05next topic?21:28
DocScrutinizer05<MentalistTraceur> Anyway, I would like to add/include into the Big Red topic, "finalize election eligibility criteria".21:28
sixwheeledbeastSorry to jump back a topic but I have found the karma info from last election that I handballed if it helps?21:28
DocScrutinizer05on topic to the point ;-)21:28
MentalistTraceursixwheeledbeast: Seems relevant to this topic. :)21:29
DocScrutinizer05according to woody karma evaluation is still fubar21:29
sixwheeledbeastTSV file here:-
DocScrutinizer05nevertheless let me post sth lengthy here21:29
sixwheeledbeastglad I did it now :)21:29
DocScrutinizer05since login to been fuxored since months21:30
DocScrutinizer05and thus several users might not have been able to create an account or link their tmo account or edit wiki or whatever21:30
DocScrutinizer05I consider karmal moot21:30
DocScrutinizer05I want to ask: what's the negative side of allowing *all* maemo community members that had an account 1 week ago to vote?21:31
DocScrutinizer05since our original rules are flawed and feel unfair if we execute them to the point, I'd rather completely forget about karma21:32
DocScrutinizer05for voting (not for running as candidate)21:32
MentalistTraceurI agree in principle, for this election at least. Question, though: Doesn't that conflict with the Maemo Community Council requirements for voting eligibility?21:33
MentalistTraceurIf the referendum passes, not a big deal...21:33
DocScrutinizer05this conflicts with the rules that are flawed21:33
DocScrutinizer05the rules require iirc 10 karmapoints for being eligible to vote21:33
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, I would go for 2 or 3 weeks21:34
DocScrutinizer05since the rules don't apply this single time, I think not caring about karma is as close to original rules and spirit of those rules as we can get21:34
DocScrutinizer05np with me21:34
sixwheeledbeastmaemo community members needs further defining?21:36
DocScrutinizer05we can put up a notification text with account creation that tells users registering anew that they may ask council in a mail to get allowance to vote despite their late registration21:36
qwazixWe should also consider allowing votes to tmo members with > 10 posts or something21:36
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: everybody with a garage account21:36
qwazixsince m.o. login was bust and people couldn't create account21:36
DocScrutinizer05simple as that, and as it ever been21:36
MentalistTraceur*Shrug* I think if we stick with by the letter formality, we're not allowed to ignore the karma requirements - but I have no objections to ignoring the letter of the rules in this case.21:36
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: won't work since we have no 1:1 relation between tmo accounts and maemo accounts21:37
MentalistTraceurI do however think TMO account having people should be eligible if possible.21:37
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: if we stick with letter of the rules, we will have no vote21:38
DocScrutinizer05since karma is fsckdup21:38
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, true21:38
qwazixso I agree with what you said above, anybody who wants can send us an email21:39
qwazixIf anybody bothers means he cares21:39
MentalistTraceurDocScrutinizer05: We would have a shitty vote that would severely undercount people. Technicality. I'm not disagreeing with you. Like I said, I have no objection to ignoring letter of the rules, as already stated.21:39
qwazix(and we can always check a bit his background, we could ask for tmo username)21:39
DocScrutinizer05now for part B of this problem: eligibility to run for a seat21:39
MentalistTraceurAnyway, I agree, basically.21:39
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: no, we wouldn't have a vote at all, since not even you or me have enough karma right now to run for candidate21:40
MentalistTraceurDocScrutinizer05: It's that bad?21:40
DocScrutinizer05yes, karma is fsckdup21:41
DocScrutinizer05so forget about karma, or no vote21:41
DocScrutinizer05simple as that21:41
DocScrutinizer05we *could* calculate *true* karma points for candidates21:41
MentalistTraceurI thought only some people lost karma off their accounts, not all? Anyway, yeah, if no one has enough karma, no vote indeed.21:41
qwazixI have :P21:42
DocScrutinizer05everybody lost significant parts of their karma21:42
DocScrutinizer05(tmo, wiki?, some garage parts iirc)21:42
MentalistTraceurAnyway, is manual count something we realistically have a chance of getting done?21:43
DocScrutinizer05my karma got nuked form >600 to 8021:43
MentalistTraceurI.e. how long does manual count take?21:43
DocScrutinizer05it's not that hard, you can check thanks on tmo and calculate stuff, as soon as candidate has _enough_ points gathered, you stop calculation21:44
DocScrutinizer05as said above, *can* be done for candidates21:44
DocScrutinizer05for sure not feasible for electorate21:45
MentalistTraceur(Fwiw, my karma is at 168, but I don't remember if it was higher before or not.)21:45
DocScrutinizer05so, can we agree we're sending a token to all those who had a garage account 4 weeks before referendum vote starts (or whatever the rules say in detail for that detail)?21:47
DocScrutinizer05and we notice all those that create an account after that point in time that they may apply for eligibility to vote via mail to council21:47
sixwheeledbeastMentalistTraceur: 2012 Q4 you had 57821:48
DocScrutinizer05since we are council and thus responsible for both defining, getting approved, and _executing_ voting rules, we are probably on safe side of "in best spirit of original rules" with that21:49
MentalistTraceurDocScrutinizer05: Beat me to it. I was typing this, lol: So are we in agreement on: 1. Everyone with a *.m.o account, from, say 2 weeks ago or earlier, is eligible to vote. 2. If they registered that account later but feel they should be eligible, they can contact the Council (I am okay with saying "either via mail or via response to the official thread were this announcement is ...21:49
MentalistTraceur... posted", and 3. candidates still have to meet karma requirements, but we'll compute those by hand (so people should nominate even if they don't see a sufficiently high karma number on the website)?21:49
DocScrutinizer05see? for candidates it might be as easy as what sixwheeledbeast just die, assuming that nobody ever loses karma points21:50
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: perfect21:50
DocScrutinizer05let's check back the 2week period with riles21:51
DocScrutinizer05I think it might even be 3 months21:51
DocScrutinizer05but since nobody been able to create an account during last 3 months, it doesn't make a difference anyway21:51
MentalistTraceurOkay. So just substitute in whatever the rules already say for how old the account has to be?21:52
MentalistTraceurqwazix: comments/objections?21:52
DocScrutinizer05we might want to check for accounts younger than that and send any those accounts a mail notifying them that they ahve to apply for voting just like those that didn't know how to create an account during last 3 months21:53
DocScrutinizer05so I think we missed nobody, and didn't do harm to anybody21:54
MentalistTraceurWould that email-ing be done manually? I personally don't have that kind of time this month, but if someone else can, great. The next question is: do we provide any exceptions to the karma rules for candidates like Jim?21:55
DocScrutinizer05(except to council which will have to handle all that)21:55
DocScrutinizer05nah, mass mails will get sent by a tiny hack to our voting system21:55
MentalistTraceurOkay, great.21:55
DocScrutinizer05it's a few SQL queries21:56
DocScrutinizer05and a job to get started by cron21:56
DocScrutinizer05(if woody comes back next week, as we all hope)21:56
MentalistTraceurReiterating in case missed: "The next question is: do we provide any exceptions to the karma rules for candidates like Jim?"21:57
DocScrutinizer05##topic MAEMO COUNCIL ELECTION big adverising effort, call for volunteers21:57
MentalistTraceurMy understanding was no, we are not making exceptions for candidates,21:57
MentalistTraceurbut that's the main reason for bringing it back up,21:57
MentalistTraceurin case opinions changed since it was last discussed.21:57
DocScrutinizer05I don't see a basis for any such exceptions21:57
DocScrutinizer05at least for council. I dunno what's the rules for BoD21:58
qwazixsorry, I was absent for a while, reading backscroll21:58
DocScrutinizer05but afaik the rules for BoD are identical to MMC21:58
kerioas i understood it, that jim dude preferred an "advisor" role anyway21:58
DocScrutinizer05so no room for BoD special appearance either21:59
MentalistTraceurkerio: I don't think he ever said anything about preferring, just that he was okay with either.21:59
DocScrutinizer05yes, exactly21:59
DocScrutinizer05waht MT siad21:59
qwazixMentalistTraceur, No objections22:00
DocScrutinizer05so next topic?22:00
MentalistTraceurShould we ask community on TMO if they want exceptions for candidates?22:00
qwazixregarding exception for Jim I don't think he has given any special reasons for us to think about creating an exception for him22:01
DocScrutinizer05we CAN NOT do exceptions22:01
MentalistTraceurDocScrutinizer05: As HFC, we can, for HFC and HFB. We cannot as MCC for MCC.22:01
DocScrutinizer05we have a ruleset we're supposed to try and fulfill faithfully22:01
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: hmm, you might have a point there22:02
DocScrutinizer05indeed the legacy MCC rules are mandatory for MCC seats only, not for BoD seats22:02
DocScrutinizer05we might look nice and smart to apply same rules for both though22:03
DocScrutinizer05and we will look like asshats if we don't and instead do whatever we think is funny22:03
DocScrutinizer05since that's never been what we were asked to do22:04
keriobut fun is good!22:04
DocScrutinizer05stop trolling please22:04
MentalistTraceurHe's just joking, not really trolling, to be fair. (One is harmless, if chanlog filling, the other is inherently hostility increasing and asinine.)22:05
DocScrutinizer05what were the rules for inaugural BoD election?22:05
keriofwiw, board and council have two different roles22:05
MentalistTraceurAnyway, I'm inclined to agree. Even if referendum passes with no trouble, as the MCC is merged into HFC and the exceptions thing is interpreted as being possible for both, there's still no good way to really implement exceptions ATM,22:05
kerioi mean, board has legal responsibilities22:06
MentalistTraceuraside from "email council and we'll consider it",22:06
MentalistTraceurand then the Council ends up getting the hammer of community saying we're engaging in favoritism, etc, in our approval/disapproval of exceptions.22:06
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: there will be no exception thing for both, since MCC will always stick to legacy rules, even when we transit to HFC22:06
DocScrutinizer05MCC rules are mandatory even for HFC22:07
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: exactly22:08
DocScrutinizer05council needs to stay out of any such fishy stuff22:08
MentalistTraceurâOr we could conceivably organize short mini-elections for exceptions, but the overhead for that would be a mess, and would almost certainly not be worth it.22:08
DocScrutinizer05far out of it22:08
DocScrutinizer05if somebody wants to run for a seat and doesn't now how to gain enough karma to do so, he's probably not worth it anyway22:09
DocScrutinizer05so let's forget about any such nonsense like exceptions22:09
DocScrutinizer05simply because I have no mood and no time for it22:09
*** Sysaxed has joined #maemo-meeting22:10
DocScrutinizer05IF somebody stands up and shouts "but you WANT me!! really!" and hasn't enough karma, we can start again thinking about that topic22:12
DocScrutinizer05until then...22:12
DocScrutinizer05next topic?22:12
DocScrutinizer05(our last and probably biggest topic)22:12
MentalistTraceur(Sidenote regarding legacy MCC rules applying to HFC after referendum: honestly, my understanding when writing that referendum was precisely that that would no longer be the case. If it is, there's very little point to even having that referendum. If that's what I thought it was doing, I wouldn't have even bothered writing it at the time, because most of the mess it's supposed to fix ...22:12
MentalistTraceur... remains a mess, under that interpretation. However, I don't have the energy to argue about this right now, so whatever. My interpretation is not the common one by now anyway.)22:12
MentalistTraceurSo yeah, next topic.22:12
DocScrutinizer05##topic THE BIG RED ONE22:13
DocScrutinizer05initial statement22:14
DocScrutinizer05I think all 3 of MCC unanimously agree that we're going to declare current HiFo BoD moot and object to a re-election which in turn causes our own re-election as well22:15
MentalistTraceurIndeed, all three of us have been in unanimous push-the-red-button agreement for a while now.22:16
DocScrutinizer05so: what's needed in synchronous turnkey procedures to launcch that rocket?22:16
DocScrutinizer05post MentalistTraceur's mail publicly to tmo and on ?22:17
MentalistTraceurWe need to have the formal election criteria written up and published (not necessarily in the same post as the announcement, but the closer to simultaneously, the better formalities-wise).22:18
DocScrutinizer05send it to HiFo per email? per snailmail?22:18
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: good point22:18
MentalistTraceurWe need to obviously post the announcement, as soon as we have all proofread the final copy and signed off on it, we can post it.22:18
MentalistTraceurSince the election criteria this time around are very simple, it should be possible to include them in the same announcement.22:19
DocScrutinizer05I think we just need to copy the existing rules, maybe amend them regarding a salvatory clause when a single § doesn't work anymore (like this time karma not working)22:19
MentalistTraceurAnd while I don't believe we need to send anything to HiFo board (Bylaws don't require it), we might as well CC them to whatever mail is sent out.22:20
DocScrutinizer05sure thing22:20
DocScrutinizer05I just don't like to play silly powergames with patent lawyers, you know what i mean22:20
MentalistTraceurIf that's what he wants to do, we'll end up forced into those games one way or the other.22:21
MentalistTraceurWhether we CC hifo board directly or not.22:21
DocScrutinizer05nobody knows what he wants to and will do22:22
DocScrutinizer05but I want to make sure we stick to all bylaws and related requirements in this one22:22
*** Drathir has joined #maemo-meeting22:23
* DocScrutinizer05 just notices we left out a topic22:23
DocScrutinizer05but maybe that's a topic we can discuss en passant22:24
DocScrutinizer05(reminder: advertising for our own and HiFo's election, we NEED candidates)22:24
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: please keep in mind to add an according sidenote in *every* post we send out from now on22:25
MentalistTraceurI also presume the announcement thread/post will serve as the primary candidate solicitation anyway.22:25
MentalistTraceurBut sure, will do.22:25
DocScrutinizer05one more good reason to do the above suggested22:26
DocScrutinizer05maybe even consider to edit your signatures for email and tmo ;-D22:26
qwazixI won't be a candidate for next term, fwiw...22:27
DocScrutinizer05tmo is highly efficient since it works for *all* posts of yours22:27
DocScrutinizer05you ever posted22:27
qwazixWhat do are you two thinking?22:27
DocScrutinizer05afk, bbiam22:27
qwazix(about running for next term)22:27
MentalistTraceurqwazix: I suspect I will not be self-nominating - if someone nominates me, I'll consider it.22:28
DocScrutinizer05I'm in a state of extreme scizophrenia about it22:28
*** JZA has joined #maemo-meeting22:29
DocScrutinizer05ok, ToDo list: qwazixand me check read MentalistTraceur's bigred mail #2, then MentalistTraceur posts it to and tmo tomorrow, I will care for MWKN (talk to GA/jaffa)22:31
MentalistTraceurIf I were to self nominate again, it would be only if it once again seemed like the community was in serious risk of collapsing, as was the case last election cycle.22:31
MentalistTraceurDocScrutinizer05: I'm writing up draft #3 right now,22:31
MentalistTraceurso might as well wait to proof read that one.22:31
DocScrutinizer05sure, that's why I said "*tomorrow* MentalistTraceur posts it to m.o and tmo"22:32
DocScrutinizer05and this time we need it get done tomorrow saturday 2013-04-0622:32
DocScrutinizer05not any later22:33
DocScrutinizer05btw THIS IS TO YOU LURKERS ;-) pretty please consider to run for a seat in council or BoD or even both!22:35
MentalistTraceurHmm, I've been writing the draft as it would have to be in post-to-forum format (with BB code url tags).22:37
MentalistTraceurSince the post-as-council functionality is back,22:37
DocScrutinizer05no worries, that's marginals22:37
MentalistTraceurI suppose I should fix that now.22:37
qwazixyou could preview post and copy paste result22:37
qwazixso you don't have to do it by hand22:37
MentalistTraceurI'm concerned mainly about the mailing list - since post from official council blog is forwarded to mailing list as well,22:39
MentalistTraceurand it does some stripping of URLs and stuff, iirc?22:39
DocScrutinizer05anyway, MentalistTraceur, please state *officially* here and now that from this very second on we consider BoD as interim and moot22:39
MentalistTraceurSure. How's this: We, the Council, unanimously find, that the current BoD has failed to call for it's own releection, as required by both the bylaws by which it is bound, and as desired by the community at large, which it is meant to serve.22:40
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: (posts) first creat a edit on tmo, do "preview" and c&p that result (that has BB tags stripped) to blog22:41
DocScrutinizer05then see where it propagates to, and fill in manually where it's not22:41
DocScrutinizer05we do that tomorrow22:41
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: sounds good. Needs a second sentence thoug, explaining what action we take based on that rationale (declare BoD moot and only interim until election of new BoD which we announce here, for ASAP)22:43
MentalistTraceur(Official-speak cont.) Furthermore, we the council find that the last election was intended to make this body count as both Maemo Community Council and Hildon Foundation Council, and that as such, it is within our authority to declare an election initiated for both Council and Board.22:43
MentalistTraceur(Official-speak end) Thus, because the Board had violated its own Bylaws, the current Board is already in defiance of its own regulations, and is thus in violation of both the law under which HiFo is incorporated, and the trust of the community as a whole. This makes the current Board's authority unfounded, and forces us to initiate said elections of both bodies, in the hope that this ...22:48
MentalistTraceur... measure will finally get the Board to do what is required and desired of it, by law and Maemo Community, respectively.22:48
qwazixI find it very very good22:48
DocScrutinizer05now in one long statement, without "how's about that:" and fools like me spamming in between, so we can link to it in chanlog ;-)22:51
DocScrutinizer05with a all CAPITALS headline "official announcement"22:52
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer0522:52
*** DocScrutinizer05 sets mode: +m 22:52
*** DocScrutinizer05 sets mode: +v MentalistTraceur22:53
MentalistTraceurWe, the Council, unanimously find, that the current BoD has failed to call for it's own releection, as required by both the bylaws by which it is bound, and as desired by the community at large, which it is meant to serve.22:53
MentalistTraceurFurthermore, we the council find that the last election was intended to make this body count as both Maemo Community Council and Hildon Foundation Council, and that as such, it is within our authority to declare an election initiated for both Council and Board.22:53
MentalistTraceurThus, because the Board had violated its own Bylaws, the current Board is already in defiance of its own regulations, and is thus in violation of both the law under which HiFo is incorporated, and the trust of the community as a whole. This makes the current Board's authority unfounded, and forces us to initiate said elections of both bodies, in the hope that this measure will finally ...22:54
MentalistTraceur... get the Board to do what is required and desired of it, by law and Maemo Community, respectively.22:54
*** DocScrutinizer05 sets mode: -m 22:54
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer0522:54
MentalistTraceur(*Shrug* Honestly, I think we can just copy/paste or screen-cap it, no need to formalize it all nice-looking here.)22:54
DocScrutinizer05for a chanlog linke like on MWKN it's a good thing22:55
* DocScrutinizer05 feels a tad tired22:56
DocScrutinizer05and I need to open my windows (insider gag)22:57
*** xes has joined #maemo-meeting22:58
DocScrutinizer05hi xes22:58
DocScrutinizer05MentalistTraceur: could we sum up the action points aka ToDo list?23:00
MentalistTraceurDocScrutinizer05: Go for it. (I am trying to finish up draft #3 as quickly as possible)23:02
qwazixSorry for being a bit inactive in today's meeting, I got to go. I'll still keep an eye on the log though once in while23:03
* qwazix waves23:03
DocScrutinizer05I'm suffering a transient attention deficiency23:03
DocScrutinizer05which is what made me ask for a ToDo summary, so I won't forget the more important 50%23:03
MentalistTraceurOkay. Todo:23:03
MentalistTraceur##Mentalist Traceur finish election/bigred announcement draft.23:04
MentalistTraceur##qwazix/joerg proofread said draft23:04
DocScrutinizer05##todo: joerg: talk to jaffa/generalantilles to make the draft appear in monday's MWKN23:06
DocScrutinizer05##todo: joerg: coordinate with techstaff to remove *patch pkgs23:06
MentalistTraceur##Ditto as for bigred draft, for elections eligibility criteria draft, although presently I'm including that in the above draft. However, we also want a separate larger post, not for this election directly but to present to HiFo Board as the official HFC elections eligibility requirements.23:07
MentalistTraceurs/HFC elections/HiFo elections/23:07
MentalistTraceur##Figure out how the voting machine web interface works, if possible.23:08
MentalistTraceurI think that's it.23:08
DocScrutinizer05##todo: joerg: make electorate based on discussed rules (account older ??? weeks)23:09
DocScrutinizer05##todo: joerg: coordinate sending out of referendum token mails23:10
DocScrutinizer05##todo: NOT joerg: edit the text template for said mails23:10
DocScrutinizer05and finally: todo: roll up this meeting23:13
MentalistTraceurI was thinking electorate-making and token creation could wait a week, so we could wait for people who might want to apply to eligibility.23:15
MentalistTraceurUnless of course we can generate tokens individually for the stragglers?23:15
DocScrutinizer05the latter23:16
MentalistTraceurWe should figure out what a good cut-off is for the last chance to go "Council, add me, I ought to be voting-eligible".23:17
MentalistTraceurI'm thinking at least a week's buffer between the voting and the cut-off? But we can iron that out later, no need to do it at the moment.23:18
MentalistTraceur###Meeting End###23:18
*** Sysaxed has quit IRC23:18
*** Sysaxed has joined #maemo-meeting23:18
DocScrutinizer05cut-off will be when time is insufficient to process and mail out applications/tokens23:19
DocScrutinizer05no need to set an artificial cut-off date23:19
MentalistTraceurDocScrutinizer05: Exactly. We should figure out approximately when that will be. We know it has to be before the referendum goes live.23:19
DocScrutinizer05roughly a week seems right23:20
DocScrutinizer05maybe 5 days23:20
DocScrutinizer05we can even process inquiries during voting gone live23:21
DocScrutinizer05until voting closes ;-)23:21
DocScrutinizer05but at a certain point in time we'll just say "sorry, my schedule and speed of internet forbids this application to ever succeed"23:21
DocScrutinizer05we're not hurting anybody if we try to process a very late application23:22
MentalistTraceur*Nod* Biggest thing is that as stated by Woody, we want to clone the voting tokens across the three votes (referendum, council election, board election), and it doesn't allow cloning tokens after referendum voting goes live.23:23
DocScrutinizer05so no artificial  deadline needed23:23
DocScrutinizer05oh yeah, that's a good point23:23
DocScrutinizer05well, it doesn't allow cloning *all* tokens since some might already have been used up and thus vanished23:24
DocScrutinizer05doesn't forbit *adding* a token for each of the three tables manually23:24
MentalistTraceurAnyway, it doesn't have to be a hard deadline, just a soft cutoff so we can tell people - do your best to get your requests in before this, as after that point there's no guarantees.23:24
MentalistTraceurHopefully it doesn't forbid. Idk how voting machine works lol.23:24
DocScrutinizer05that's a week before referendum starts23:25
MentalistTraceur*Nod* Agreed.23:25
DocScrutinizer05no warranties of any kind after that date23:25
DocScrutinizer05we just have to promise we'll keep sequence of inquiries in our processing23:26
MentalistTraceurOh, ##todo: Duplicate referendum announcement over official council posting mechanism.23:26
DocScrutinizer05who of us three can process inquiry mails? as in: prepare a list of accounts that need manual token adding?23:29
MentalistTraceurLet's ask qwazix if he has the time: if he can't, I guess I will do it, but I'm really swamped with stuff outside of Maemo-related-matters.23:30
MentalistTraceurDoes the referendum start officially on the 22nd, when we first posted the announcement, or the 24th, when the mailing list was fixed and it went out to the mailing list as well?23:41
qwazixMentalistTraceur, DocScrutinizer05 I can do the inquiry mails23:44
DocScrutinizer05I'd say23:44
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: thanks23:44
MentalistTraceurOkay, agreed re: 22. qwazix: thank you!23:45

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!