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| DocScrutinizer05 | please early-post topics for meeting (T+3:22) | 17:39 |
|---|---|---|
| sixwheeledbeast | ##package rating broken? ##package promotion broken? ##*patch? :) | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: I gather the first two are a maintenance issue and related to www.m.o login? | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | third one is clearly an 30s topic for meeting | 18:04 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: eh, yes is there a better place to report? | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you already reported on #maemo, and I forwarded it | 18:04 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ta, didn't know if it needed "official" reporting somewhere? | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it needs somebody to take care about it | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "official" way was to send a mail to techstaff@m.o, but that's not exactly needed as long as we can deal with it directly | 18:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I'll keep that in mind for future issues, ty | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, actually the "official" way would be a ticket filed on b.m.o, against infra or whatever (which makes me ponder if that subsystem is already assigned to the proper mailaddr so techstaff would even notice new tickets there) | 18:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ^topic? | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/subsystem/product/ | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, sorry for OT | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=__all >> https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=maemo.org%20Website For problems related to maemo.org websites (www.maemo.org, bugs.maemo.org, downloads.maemo.org, garage.maemo.org, repository.maemo.org, wiki.maemo.org, ...) Note: Documentation bugs should be filed in the "Documentation" classification instead!<< | 18:36 |
| qwazix | hello | 20:02 |
| qwazix | oops, yeah daylight savings, one hour early | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAHA | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's new | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic red-button | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/ (with /etc/hosts hack) | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic http://maemo.org/vote/ | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic http://maemo.org/ login works | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic *patch removal, veto-period (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89644&page=5) expired, execute | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic MAEMO COUNCIL ELECTION big adverising effort, call for volunteers | 20:49 |
| *** MentalistTraceur has joined #maemo-meeting | 20:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Hi Hi everybody ! | 21:00 |
| qwazix | hi | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: c'mon, you used a timer to do this | 21:00 |
| MentalistTraceur | Lol, nah, I was just on my N900 already. :) | 21:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | (And I do use a clock in the status menu that shows seconds...) | 21:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, I just sent a second draft of the big-red announcement. | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just came in | 21:03 |
| warfare | evening. | 21:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | Moved a couple of things to the footnotes, added a few lines here/there, and pointed out that even if you ignore the fact that we should count as HiFo council as well, | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi warfare | 21:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | the Board had more than 7 days of (Directors < 3). | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine :-) | 21:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | ..so they should be having an election anyway. | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you seen my list of topics in chanlog? | 21:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | Not yet. | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, I#ll post it again | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-04-05 19:45:33] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic red-button | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-04-05 19:45:59] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/ (with /etc/hosts hack) | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-04-05 19:46:29] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic http://maemo.org/vote/ | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-04-05 19:47:12] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic http://maemo.org/ login works | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-04-05 19:48:51] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic *patch removal, veto-period (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89644&page=5) expired, execute | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-04-05 19:49:46] <DocScrutinizer05> ##topic MAEMO COUNCIL ELECTION big adverising effort, call for volunteers | 21:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | (I ended up opening the URL and reading it anyway) | 21:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | But thanks for posting. | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: pingping | 21:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, I would like to add/include into the Big Red topic, "finalize election eligibility criteria". | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, you're here | 21:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | Just so we are all clear exactly what's happening with that. | 21:07 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer pong | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine, so let's move the topics tending to be timehogs to the end, and start with the lightweight stuff? | 21:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | So anyway, meeting is in session. First topic, Big Red Button. | 21:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | Or we can do lightweight stuff, that's good too. | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I's suggest to start with stuff I can finish in ~60s per topic | 21:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | Either way this meeting will take a while, so sure. | 21:09 |
| MentalistTraceur | Proceed in the order you'd like. | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic *patch removal, veto-period (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89644&page=5) expired, execute | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the topic says it all | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just mentioning | 21:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any comments, objections? | 21:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | One comment: I think it would be nice if we clearly stated in general terms under what conditions the council/tech staff will act to remove packages. | 21:10 |
| qwazix | no, proceed | 21:10 |
| MentalistTraceur | Not particular rules, just explicitly state it, | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, I take that for a no. So techstaff will proceed to remove those two pkgs from maemo and maemo-testing repos | 21:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | so that the community as a whole knows exactly when to expect it to happen. | 21:11 |
| MentalistTraceur | And indeed, no objections to techstaff proceeding with removal. | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast has clearly noted what's been flawed in pkgs and in testing | 21:11 |
| * sixwheeledbeast nods | 21:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can state it here again: any pkg that conflicts with the QA rules as linked to in my post I linked above and has passed testing due to testers been doing a crap job, will get removed as soon as somebody is clearly exposing that fact publicly and makes it known to council | 21:13 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, you could include the above in minutes and it should be enough | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council will be less reluctant to do so, when the package actually is *dangerous* as defined in QA rules | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic? | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic http://maemo.org/ login works | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks to warfare for looking into it. Testing of all login-related/depending stuff by communty solicited | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: seems you should be able to post meeting minutes the supposed way again | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/community/council/ | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should announce referendum and pending elections there as well, ASAP | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic? | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic http://maemo.org/vote/ | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | woody made a nice web frontend for voting / elections-setup | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's allegedly self-explanatory, though I failed to find my way thru it, particularly fro creating new electorate (we will pick up on this when we discuss electorate eligibility rules later) | 21:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | (For the record I think that said policy of removal ought to be placed on the Council wiki page, so that it's permanently visible on an easily-discoverable location, and not just to be found in meeting minutes and chan logs by those who know to look. But I can do that in spare time.) Agreed about announcing elections and referendum the official way now that login works. | 21:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | Agreed re "allegedly self-explanatory" - how do we change the default password, for instance? | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we *ought* already have started sending out tokens/ballots for referendum, but we are still missing proper electorate and woody's suggestion to use last election's electorate db as probably nobody vanished or lost karma didn't come real | 21:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Found change-password functionality just now.) | 21:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | What was wrong with last electorate's DB? | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing, it's just not up to date | 21:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but a good base to _start_ sending mails out | 21:22 |
| qwazix | :nod: | 21:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay. | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas woody is just this moment not available (GOOD LUCK, buddy!), so we're hosed with this,since we have no clue what's the mechanism behind that frontend | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we will pick up on that in maybe 2 or 3 days | 21:23 |
| qwazix | yeah, good luck to woody | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic? | 21:24 |
| MentalistTraceur | Yep. | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/ (with /etc/hosts hack) | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I did a little fancy this afternoon and looked into scratchbox.maemo.org | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991 took over when my skills failed | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we managed to get something working that should suffice to install scratchbox | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (the SDK) | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas we have no control over scratchbox.org DNS yet | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so if you wanna use that, you need a etc/hosts hack once again | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 213.128.137.24 scratchbox.org | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 213.128.137.24 lists.scratchbox.org | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 213.128.137.24 bugzilla.scratchbox.org | 21:26 |
| thedead1440 | apologies for the scratchbox thing | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 213.128.137.24 live.scratchbox.org | 21:26 |
| thedead1440 | i'm still overseas so couldn't look into it further than do the mounting just before i left | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440: np, it been fsckdup anyway | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic? | 21:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | What if you just manually use the IP? Will that work? | 21:27 |
| thedead1440 | MentalistTraceur: yup | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should work | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic? | 21:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | Yep. | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <MentalistTraceur> Anyway, I would like to add/include into the Big Red topic, "finalize election eligibility criteria". | 21:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Sorry to jump back a topic but I have found the karma info from last election that I handballed if it helps? | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on topic to the point ;-) | 21:28 |
| MentalistTraceur | sixwheeledbeast: Seems relevant to this topic. :) | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | according to woody karma evaluation is still fubar | 21:29 |
| sixwheeledbeast | TSV file here:- http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1270698&postcount=59 | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless let me post sth lengthy here | 21:29 |
| sixwheeledbeast | glad I did it now :) | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since login to maemo.org been fuxored since months | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and thus several users might not have been able to create an account or link their tmo account or edit wiki or whatever | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I consider karmal moot | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I want to ask: what's the negative side of allowing *all* maemo community members that had an account 1 week ago to vote? | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since our original rules are flawed and feel unfair if we execute them to the point, I'd rather completely forget about karma | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for voting (not for running as candidate) | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <etx> | 21:32 |
| MentalistTraceur | I agree in principle, for this election at least. Question, though: Doesn't that conflict with the Maemo Community Council requirements for voting eligibility? | 21:33 |
| MentalistTraceur | If the referendum passes, not a big deal... | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this conflicts with the rules that are flawed | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the rules require iirc 10 karmapoints for being eligible to vote | 21:33 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, I would go for 2 or 3 weeks | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since the rules don't apply this single time, I think not caring about karma is as close to original rules and spirit of those rules as we can get | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np with me | 21:34 |
| sixwheeledbeast | maemo community members needs further defining? | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we can put up a notification text with account creation that tells users registering anew that they may ask council in a mail to get allowance to vote despite their late registration | 21:36 |
| qwazix | We should also consider allowing votes to tmo members with > 10 posts or something | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: everybody with a garage account | 21:36 |
| qwazix | since m.o. login was bust and people couldn't create account | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | simple as that, and as it ever been | 21:36 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Shrug* I think if we stick with by the letter formality, we're not allowed to ignore the karma requirements - but I have no objections to ignoring the letter of the rules in this case. | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: won't work since we have no 1:1 relation between tmo accounts and maemo accounts | 21:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | I do however think TMO account having people should be eligible if possible. | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: if we stick with letter of the rules, we will have no vote | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since karma is fsckdup | 21:38 |
| qwazix | DocScrutinizer05, true | 21:38 |
| qwazix | so I agree with what you said above, anybody who wants can send us an email | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:39 |
| qwazix | If anybody bothers means he cares | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: We would have a shitty vote that would severely undercount people. Technicality. I'm not disagreeing with you. Like I said, I have no objection to ignoring letter of the rules, as already stated. | 21:39 |
| qwazix | (and we can always check a bit his background, we could ask for tmo username) | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now for part B of this problem: eligibility to run for a seat | 21:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, I agree, basically. | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: no, we wouldn't have a vote at all, since not even you or me have enough karma right now to run for candidate | 21:40 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: It's that bad? | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, karma is fsckdup | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so forget about karma, or no vote | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | simple as that | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we *could* calculate *true* karma points for candidates | 21:41 |
| MentalistTraceur | I thought only some people lost karma off their accounts, not all? Anyway, yeah, if no one has enough karma, no vote indeed. | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | manually | 21:41 |
| qwazix | I have :P | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | everybody lost significant parts of their karma | 21:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (tmo, wiki?, some garage parts iirc) | 21:42 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, is manual count something we realistically have a chance of getting done? | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my karma got nuked form >600 to 80 | 21:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | I.e. how long does manual count take? | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not that hard, you can check thanks on tmo and calculate stuff, as soon as candidate has _enough_ points gathered, you stop calculation | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as said above, *can* be done for candidates | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for sure not feasible for electorate | 21:45 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Fwiw, my karma is at 168, but I don't remember if it was higher before or not.) | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, can we agree we're sending a token to all those who had a garage account 4 weeks before referendum vote starts (or whatever the rules say in detail for that detail)? | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we notice all those that create an account after that point in time that they may apply for eligibility to vote via mail to council | 21:47 |
| sixwheeledbeast | MentalistTraceur: 2012 Q4 you had 578 | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since we are council and thus responsible for both defining, getting approved, and _executing_ voting rules, we are probably on safe side of "in best spirit of original rules" with that | 21:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Beat me to it. I was typing this, lol: So are we in agreement on: 1. Everyone with a *.m.o account, from, say 2 weeks ago or earlier, is eligible to vote. 2. If they registered that account later but feel they should be eligible, they can contact the Council (I am okay with saying "either via mail or via response to the official thread were this announcement is ... | 21:49 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... posted", and 3. candidates still have to meet karma requirements, but we'll compute those by hand (so people should nominate even if they don't see a sufficiently high karma number on the website)? | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see? for candidates it might be as easy as what sixwheeledbeast just die, assuming that nobody ever loses karma points | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: perfect | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let's check back the 2week period with riles | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rules | 21:51 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think it might even be 3 months | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but since nobody been able to create an account during last 3 months, it doesn't make a difference anyway | 21:51 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay. So just substitute in whatever the rules already say for how old the account has to be? | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | Alright. | 21:52 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: comments/objections? | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we might want to check for accounts younger than that and send any those accounts a mail notifying them that they ahve to apply for voting just like those that didn't know how to create an account during last 3 months | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I think we missed nobody, and didn't do harm to anybody | 21:54 |
| MentalistTraceur | Would that email-ing be done manually? I personally don't have that kind of time this month, but if someone else can, great. The next question is: do we provide any exceptions to the karma rules for candidates like Jim? | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (except to council which will have to handle all that) | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, mass mails will get sent by a tiny hack to our voting system | 21:55 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, great. | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a few SQL queries | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and a job to get started by cron | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (if woody comes back next week, as we all hope) | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sooooo.... | 21:56 |
| MentalistTraceur | Reiterating in case missed: "The next question is: do we provide any exceptions to the karma rules for candidates like Jim?" | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic MAEMO COUNCIL ELECTION big adverising effort, call for volunteers | 21:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | My understanding was no, we are not making exceptions for candidates, | 21:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | but that's the main reason for bringing it back up, | 21:57 |
| MentalistTraceur | in case opinions changed since it was last discussed. | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see a basis for any such exceptions | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least for council. I dunno what's the rules for BoD | 21:58 |
| qwazix | sorry, I was absent for a while, reading backscroll | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but afaik the rules for BoD are identical to MMC | 21:58 |
| kerio | as i understood it, that jim dude preferred an "advisor" role anyway | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so no room for BoD special appearance either | 21:59 |
| MentalistTraceur | kerio: I don't think he ever said anything about preferring, just that he was okay with either. | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | waht MT siad | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | said | 22:00 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, No objections | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so next topic? | 22:00 |
| MentalistTraceur | Should we ask community on TMO if they want exceptions for candidates? | 22:00 |
| qwazix | regarding exception for Jim I don't think he has given any special reasons for us to think about creating an exception for him | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we CAN NOT do exceptions | 22:01 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: As HFC, we can, for HFC and HFB. We cannot as MCC for MCC. | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have a ruleset we're supposed to try and fulfill faithfully | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: hmm, you might have a point there | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed the legacy MCC rules are mandatory for MCC seats only, not for BoD seats | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui | 22:02 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we might look nice and smart to apply same rules for both though | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we will look like asshats if we don't and instead do whatever we think is funny | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since that's never been what we were asked to do | 22:04 |
| kerio | but fun is good! | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stop trolling please | 22:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | He's just joking, not really trolling, to be fair. (One is harmless, if chanlog filling, the other is inherently hostility increasing and asinine.) | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what were the rules for inaugural BoD election? | 22:05 |
| kerio | fwiw, board and council have two different roles | 22:05 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, I'm inclined to agree. Even if referendum passes with no trouble, as the MCC is merged into HFC and the exceptions thing is interpreted as being possible for both, there's still no good way to really implement exceptions ATM, | 22:05 |
| kerio | i mean, board has legal responsibilities | 22:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | aside from "email council and we'll consider it", | 22:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | and then the Council ends up getting the hammer of community saying we're engaging in favoritism, etc, in our approval/disapproval of exceptions. | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: there will be no exception thing for both, since MCC will always stick to legacy rules, even when we transit to HFC | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MCC rules are mandatory even for HFC | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: exactly | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council needs to stay out of any such fishy stuff | 22:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | âOr we could conceivably organize short mini-elections for exceptions, but the overhead for that would be a mess, and would almost certainly not be worth it. | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | far out of it | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if somebody wants to run for a seat and doesn't now how to gain enough karma to do so, he's probably not worth it anyway | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so let's forget about any such nonsense like exceptions | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | simply because I have no mood and no time for it | 22:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | IF somebody stands up and shouts "but you WANT me!! really!" and hasn't enough karma, we can start again thinking about that topic | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | until then... | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | next topic? | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (our last and probably biggest topic) | 22:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Sidenote regarding legacy MCC rules applying to HFC after referendum: honestly, my understanding when writing that referendum was precisely that that would no longer be the case. If it is, there's very little point to even having that referendum. If that's what I thought it was doing, I wouldn't have even bothered writing it at the time, because most of the mess it's supposed to fix ... | 22:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... remains a mess, under that interpretation. However, I don't have the energy to argue about this right now, so whatever. My interpretation is not the common one by now anyway.) | 22:12 |
| MentalistTraceur | So yeah, next topic. | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##topic THE BIG RED ONE | 22:13 |
| qwazix | yay | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | initial statement | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think all 3 of MCC unanimously agree that we're going to declare current HiFo BoD moot and object to a re-election which in turn causes our own re-election as well | 22:15 |
| qwazix | yep | 22:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | Indeed, all three of us have been in unanimous push-the-red-button agreement for a while now. | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so: what's needed in synchronous turnkey procedures to launcch that rocket? | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | post MentalistTraceur's mail publicly to tmo and on http://maemo.org/community/council/ ? | 22:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | We need to have the formal election criteria written up and published (not necessarily in the same post as the announcement, but the closer to simultaneously, the better formalities-wise). | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | send it to HiFo per email? per snailmail? | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: good point | 22:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | We need to obviously post the announcement, as soon as we have all proofread the final copy and signed off on it, we can post it. | 22:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | Since the election criteria this time around are very simple, it should be possible to include them in the same announcement. | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think we just need to copy the existing rules, maybe amend them regarding a salvatory clause when a single § doesn't work anymore (like this time karma not working) | 22:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | And while I don't believe we need to send anything to HiFo board (Bylaws don't require it), we might as well CC them to whatever mail is sent out. | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure thing | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just don't like to play silly powergames with patent lawyers, you know what i mean | 22:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | If that's what he wants to do, we'll end up forced into those games one way or the other. | 22:21 |
| MentalistTraceur | Whether we CC hifo board directly or not. | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody knows what he wants to and will do | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I want to make sure we stick to all bylaws and related requirements in this one | 22:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* | 22:23 |
| MentalistTraceur | Gotcha. | 22:23 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 just notices we left out a topic | 22:23 | |
| qwazix | :nod: | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but maybe that's a topic we can discuss en passant | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (reminder: advertising for our own and HiFo's election, we NEED candidates) | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: please keep in mind to add an according sidenote in *every* post we send out from now on | 22:25 |
| qwazix | +1 | 22:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | I also presume the announcement thread/post will serve as the primary candidate solicitation anyway. | 22:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | But sure, will do. | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one more good reason to do the above suggested | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe even consider to edit your signatures for email and tmo ;-D | 22:26 |
| qwazix | I won't be a candidate for next term, fwiw... | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmo is highly efficient since it works for *all* posts of yours | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you ever posted | 22:27 |
| qwazix | What do are you two thinking? | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afk, bbiam | 22:27 |
| qwazix | (about running for next term) | 22:27 |
| MentalistTraceur | qwazix: I suspect I will not be self-nominating - if someone nominates me, I'll consider it. | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm in a state of extreme scizophrenia about it | 22:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, ToDo list: qwazixand me check read MentalistTraceur's bigred mail #2, then MentalistTraceur posts it to maemo.org and tmo tomorrow, I will care for MWKN (talk to GA/jaffa) | 22:31 |
| MentalistTraceur | If I were to self nominate again, it would be only if it once again seemed like the community was in serious risk of collapsing, as was the case last election cycle. | 22:31 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: I'm writing up draft #3 right now, | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | k | 22:31 |
| qwazix | ok | 22:31 |
| MentalistTraceur | so might as well wait to proof read that one. | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, that's why I said "*tomorrow* MentalistTraceur posts it to m.o and tmo" | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and this time we need it get done tomorrow saturday 2013-04-06 | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not any later | 22:33 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw THIS IS TO YOU LURKERS ;-) pretty please consider to run for a seat in council or BoD or even both! | 22:35 |
| MentalistTraceur | Hmm, I've been writing the draft as it would have to be in post-to-forum format (with BB code url tags). | 22:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | Since the post-as-council functionality is back, | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no worries, that's marginals | 22:37 |
| MentalistTraceur | I suppose I should fix that now. | 22:37 |
| qwazix | you could preview post and copy paste result | 22:37 |
| qwazix | so you don't have to do it by hand | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 22:38 |
| MentalistTraceur | I'm concerned mainly about the mailing list - since post from official council blog is forwarded to mailing list as well, | 22:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | and it does some stripping of URLs and stuff, iirc? | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, MentalistTraceur, please state *officially* here and now that from this very second on we consider BoD as interim and moot | 22:39 |
| MentalistTraceur | Sure. How's this: We, the Council, unanimously find, that the current BoD has failed to call for it's own releection, as required by both the bylaws by which it is bound, and as desired by the community at large, which it is meant to serve. | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: (posts) first creat a edit on tmo, do "preview" and c&p that result (that has BB tags stripped) to www.maemo.org blog | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then see where it propagates to, and fill in manually where it's not | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we do that tomorrow | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: sounds good. Needs a second sentence thoug, explaining what action we take based on that rationale (declare BoD moot and only interim until election of new BoD which we announce here, for ASAP) | 22:43 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Official-speak cont.) Furthermore, we the council find that the last election was intended to make this body count as both Maemo Community Council and Hildon Foundation Council, and that as such, it is within our authority to declare an election initiated for both Council and Board. | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 22:44 |
| MentalistTraceur | (Official-speak end) Thus, because the Board had violated its own Bylaws, the current Board is already in defiance of its own regulations, and is thus in violation of both the law under which HiFo is incorporated, and the trust of the community as a whole. This makes the current Board's authority unfounded, and forces us to initiate said elections of both bodies, in the hope that this ... | 22:48 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... measure will finally get the Board to do what is required and desired of it, by law and Maemo Community, respectively. | 22:48 |
| qwazix | I find it very very good | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ack | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now in one long statement, without "how's about that:" and fools like me spamming in between, so we can link to it in chanlog ;-) | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with a all CAPITALS headline "official announcement" | 22:52 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer05 | 22:52 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 sets mode: +m | 22:52 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 sets mode: +v MentalistTraceur | 22:53 | |
| MentalistTraceur | We, the Council, unanimously find, that the current BoD has failed to call for it's own releection, as required by both the bylaws by which it is bound, and as desired by the community at large, which it is meant to serve. | 22:53 |
| MentalistTraceur | Furthermore, we the council find that the last election was intended to make this body count as both Maemo Community Council and Hildon Foundation Council, and that as such, it is within our authority to declare an election initiated for both Council and Board. | 22:53 |
| MentalistTraceur | Thus, because the Board had violated its own Bylaws, the current Board is already in defiance of its own regulations, and is thus in violation of both the law under which HiFo is incorporated, and the trust of the community as a whole. This makes the current Board's authority unfounded, and forces us to initiate said elections of both bodies, in the hope that this measure will finally ... | 22:54 |
| MentalistTraceur | ... get the Board to do what is required and desired of it, by law and Maemo Community, respectively. | 22:54 |
| *** DocScrutinizer05 sets mode: -m | 22:54 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer05 | 22:54 | |
| MentalistTraceur | (*Shrug* Honestly, I think we can just copy/paste or screen-cap it, no need to formalize it all nice-looking here.) | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for a chanlog linke like on MWKN it's a good thing | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2013-04-05.log.html#t2013-04-05T22:53:09 | 22:56 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 feels a tad tired | 22:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I need to open my windows (insider gag) | 22:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hi xes | 22:58 |
| xes | hi! | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MentalistTraceur: could we sum up the action points aka ToDo list? | 23:00 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Go for it. (I am trying to finish up draft #3 as quickly as possible) | 23:02 |
| qwazix | Sorry for being a bit inactive in today's meeting, I got to go. I'll still keep an eye on the log though once in while | 23:03 |
| * qwazix waves | 23:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm suffering a transient attention deficiency | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is what made me ask for a ToDo summary, so I won't forget the more important 50% | 23:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay. Todo: | 23:03 |
| MentalistTraceur | ##Mentalist Traceur finish election/bigred announcement draft. | 23:04 |
| MentalistTraceur | ##qwazix/joerg proofread said draft | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##todo: joerg: talk to jaffa/generalantilles to make the draft appear in monday's MWKN | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##todo: joerg: coordinate with techstaff to remove *patch pkgs | 23:06 |
| MentalistTraceur | ##Ditto as for bigred draft, for elections eligibility criteria draft, although presently I'm including that in the above draft. However, we also want a separate larger post, not for this election directly but to present to HiFo Board as the official HFC elections eligibility requirements. | 23:07 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/HFC elections/HiFo elections/ | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 23:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | ##Figure out how the voting machine web interface works, if possible. | 23:08 |
| MentalistTraceur | I think that's it. | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##todo: joerg: make electorate based on discussed rules (account older ??? weeks) | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##todo: joerg: coordinate sending out of referendum token mails | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ##todo: NOT joerg: edit the text template for said mails | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and finally: todo: roll up this meeting | 23:13 |
| MentalistTraceur | I was thinking electorate-making and token creation could wait a week, so we could wait for people who might want to apply to eligibility. | 23:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | s/to/for/ | 23:15 |
| MentalistTraceur | Unless of course we can generate tokens individually for the stragglers? | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the latter | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui | 23:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay. | 23:16 |
| MentalistTraceur | We should figure out what a good cut-off is for the last chance to go "Council, add me, I ought to be voting-eligible". | 23:17 |
| MentalistTraceur | I'm thinking at least a week's buffer between the voting and the cut-off? But we can iron that out later, no need to do it at the moment. | 23:18 |
| MentalistTraceur | ###Meeting End### | 23:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | cut-off will be when time is insufficient to process and mail out applications/tokens | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no need to set an artificial cut-off date | 23:19 |
| MentalistTraceur | DocScrutinizer05: Exactly. We should figure out approximately when that will be. We know it has to be before the referendum goes live. | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | roughly a week seems right | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe 5 days | 23:20 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay. | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we can even process inquiries during voting gone live | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | until voting closes ;-) | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but at a certain point in time we'll just say "sorry, my schedule and speed of internet forbids this application to ever succeed" | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're not hurting anybody if we try to process a very late application | 23:22 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* Biggest thing is that as stated by Woody, we want to clone the voting tokens across the three votes (referendum, council election, board election), and it doesn't allow cloning tokens after referendum voting goes live. | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so no artificial deadline needed | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh yeah, that's a good point | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, it doesn't allow cloning *all* tokens since some might already have been used up and thus vanished | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't forbit *adding* a token for each of the three tables manually | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | forbid* | 23:24 |
| MentalistTraceur | Anyway, it doesn't have to be a hard deadline, just a soft cutoff so we can tell people - do your best to get your requests in before this, as after that point there's no guarantees. | 23:24 |
| MentalistTraceur | Hopefully it doesn't forbid. Idk how voting machine works lol. | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's a week before referendum starts | 23:25 |
| MentalistTraceur | *Nod* Agreed. | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no warranties of any kind after that date | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we just have to promise we'll keep sequence of inquiries in our processing | 23:26 |
| MentalistTraceur | Oh, ##todo: Duplicate referendum announcement over official council posting mechanism. | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who of us three can process inquiry mails? as in: prepare a list of accounts that need manual token adding? | 23:29 |
| MentalistTraceur | Let's ask qwazix if he has the time: if he can't, I guess I will do it, but I'm really swamped with stuff outside of Maemo-related-matters. | 23:30 |
| MentalistTraceur | Does the referendum start officially on the 22nd, when we first posted the announcement, or the 24th, when the mailing list was fixed and it went out to the mailing list as well? | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 22 | 23:44 |
| qwazix | MentalistTraceur, DocScrutinizer05 I can do the inquiry mails | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd say | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qwazix: thanks | 23:44 |
| qwazix | np | 23:45 |
| MentalistTraceur | Okay, agreed re: 22. qwazix: thank you! | 23:45 |
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