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| Oksana | Tired. First of all, Nokia N900 (besides broken microUSB port from long ago, and not-functioning cellular modem since recently) has started discharging battery to such a flat state that: 1) alarm doesn't ring with the discharged battery; 2) LED doesn't light up white on power key press (as it ordinarily would for a switched-off Nokia N900). | 02:38 |
|---|---|---|
| Oksana | And no, the back-up battery is fine: Nokia N900 still remembers the time, when I feed a new, fully charged battery to it. | 02:38 |
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| brolin_empey | Haha, why use the MySQL monitor program when you can simply grep the directory containing the database and use vim to search the file containing the table in the database? | 12:36 |
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| CatButts | speaking of battery | 15:09 |
| CatButts | is it normal for phone to heat up significantly with CPU usage? | 15:09 |
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| bencoh | I'd say it's not really unexpected :) | 15:23 |
| bencoh | mine does heat up when tethering (usb) for a significant amount of time | 15:23 |
| bencoh | (for instance) | 15:23 |
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| bencoh | (as in, last time I checked, battery reached 46C) | 15:24 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Would depend on the load and condition of the battery | 19:48 |
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| Maxdamantus | 01:09:35 < CatButts> is it normal for phone to heat up significantly with CPU usage? | 21:34 |
| Maxdamantus | You always expect the heat output to be equal to power consumption. | 21:34 |
| Maxdamantus | If the phone is using 5 W of power, that means it's producing 5 W of heat. | 21:35 |
| KotCzarny | what about energy changed into other energy than thermal? | 21:35 |
| Maxdamantus | like what? | 21:35 |
| CatButts | I have no idea how to quantify wattage to physical heat sensation | 21:35 |
| KotCzarny | you know, thermal is tiny part of em spectrum | 21:35 |
| Maxdamantus | thermal is basically everything that a phone outputs. | 21:36 |
| KotCzarny | light? wireless? | 21:36 |
| CatButts | maybe I need a lookup table | 21:36 |
| CatButts | ha ha | 21:36 |
| KotCzarny | it's outside thermal range | 21:36 |
| Maxdamantus | It turns into heat eventually. | 21:37 |
| KotCzarny | nope. | 21:37 |
| Maxdamantus | unless some receiver is turning it into kinetic energy or something, it's going to be heating something up. | 21:37 |
| KotCzarny | i think we are talking two different physics realities | 21:38 |
| Maxdamantus | Sure, it's not the sort of heat that CatButts is talking about (it doesn't necessarily heat up the device) | 21:38 |
| Maxdamantus | but .. light makes things hot | 21:39 |
| KotCzarny | nope | 21:39 |
| Maxdamantus | No? | 21:39 |
| KotCzarny | you are thinking about thermal part of em spectrum | 21:40 |
| Maxdamantus | The reason you'd consider only part of the spectrum to be thermal is because most matter is transparent to the rest of it. | 21:41 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 21:41 |
| KotCzarny | mostly | 21:41 |
| Maxdamantus | but it's never completely transparent. | 21:41 |
| KotCzarny | not not entirely | 21:41 |
| KotCzarny | engineers like to approximate energy transfers as heat only | 21:42 |
| KotCzarny | but it's not the whole picture | 21:42 |
| Maxdamantus | anyway, from Wikipedia: | 21:44 |
| Maxdamantus | > Thermal radiation, also known as heat, is the emission of electromagnetic waves from all matter that has a temperature greater than absolute zero. | 21:44 |
| CatButts | I am under impression that heat radiation sits on lowest end of IR | 21:45 |
| Maxdamantus | All EM radiation is heat. It's just a question of how likely it is for that radiation to transfer the heat to the phone body, or the air around it, or your hand, etc. | 21:46 |
| KotCzarny | i wonder if TDP calculations include whole EM radiation or just part | 21:47 |
| Maxdamantus | I think those usually apply to local areas, like the CPU. | 21:47 |
| KotCzarny | part of EM spectrum, that is | 21:47 |
| sixwheeledbeast | When it comes to processors ICs etc as far as I was aware most of that turns into heat. | 21:51 |
| KotCzarny | maybe my 'heat' definition wasnt proper then. oh well | 21:51 |
| KotCzarny | always nice to remember those things up | 21:51 |
| Maxdamantus | with TDP, I think the point is about how much heat can be transferred (dissipated) through a particular point. | 21:58 |
| Maxdamantus | since even if you have a massive heatsink/fan, the heat (measured in W) still goes through the CPU. | 21:58 |
| KotCzarny | i suspect that it still takes only thermal (as in human heat definition) in calculations because rest escapes freely | 22:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I always believed TDP was one of those "funny" values where you rate things in the technically incorrect scale due to legacy reasons | 22:05 |
| KotCzarny | swb: also marketing | 22:05 |
| KotCzarny | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power | 22:05 |
| KotCzarny | funny story | 22:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | a bit like measuring light fittings in wattage instead of lumens | 22:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I know that AMD and Intels TDP's are massively different | 22:06 |
| KotCzarny | citing cpt. jack: 'more what you'd call a guidelines than actual rules' | 22:07 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 22:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I have no issue with how any scale is invented as long as it's consistent, they where all invented at some point. | 22:10 |
| KotCzarny | 'were' | 22:10 |
| sixwheeledbeast | #grammer | 22:10 |
| KotCzarny | but some scales are based on immovable physical points | 22:10 |
| KotCzarny | than just human subjective finger pointing | 22:10 |
| KotCzarny | swb: #englishlife | 22:10 |
| sixwheeledbeast | someone had to decide where those scales where numbered from | 22:11 |
| KotCzarny | 'were' | 22:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Imagine if the hottest Kelvin was 0 | 22:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/w/wh/g :P | 22:12 |
| KotCzarny | whas? | 22:13 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 22:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | exactly is the same ;) | 22:13 |
| KotCzarny | ish? :P | 22:15 |
| sixwheeledbeast | People get on there high horse about the metric system being superior but a lot of times it can be less practical | 22:15 |
| KotCzarny | 'their' ? | 22:16 |
| KotCzarny | practical doesnt equal proper. it can help in some situations, sure, but are not universal | 22:17 |
| KotCzarny | *is not | 22:17 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ./join #spelling | 22:17 |
| KotCzarny | it's like optimization working for some part of the code, but being slower in general use | 22:17 |
| sixwheeledbeast | what do you define as proper? | 22:17 |
| hmw_metalab | sixwheeledbeast: Well. There is such a thing as negative temperatures, and they are hotter than any positive one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_temperature | 22:17 |
| hmw_metalab | So... 0K isn't the coldest. I hope you enjoy the confusion *evil grin* | 22:18 |
| KotCzarny | swb: ockham rule? or however it was spelled | 22:18 |
| sixwheeledbeast | an example of why fixed scales can be flawed. | 22:19 |
| KotCzarny | swb: nah, that's just our flawed perception of reality | 22:19 |
| KotCzarny | the more we know/see, the better the scales | 22:20 |
| sixwheeledbeast | As I say with things like these it doesn't matter as long as everyone is on the same page. 1 inch, 1 furlong, 1 millimeter. Not like 90W TDP on different chips is my point | 22:22 |
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| KotCzarny | sure, but imperial is very flawed when it comes to little/big values | 22:22 |
| sixwheeledbeast | as is metric | 22:23 |
| KotCzarny | ie. when you go out of human-proximity range | 22:23 |
| KotCzarny | nope | 22:23 |
| sixwheeledbeast | it's relative to the scale of the measurement. | 22:23 |
| KotCzarny | imagine code required to convert between all length units in imperial | 22:24 |
| KotCzarny | it's just overcomplicated | 22:24 |
| KotCzarny | ockham rule. | 22:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | The whole point of imperial measurements is each one has an intended purpose. | 22:24 |
| KotCzarny | sure, as i've said, local optimizations | 22:25 |
| KotCzarny | but failure in generalization | 22:25 |
| sixwheeledbeast | It's not a one size fits all thing. If "metric" wasn't invented then you would make another "yardstick" for your even bigger measurement. | 22:25 |
| KotCzarny | biggest inefficiency of metric is being 10 based | 22:26 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I disagree with that too | 22:26 |
| hmw_metalab | KotCzarny: how so?? | 22:26 |
| KotCzarny | because you then have to convert binary to decimal | 22:26 |
| KotCzarny | ebcdic? | 22:26 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 22:26 |
| KotCzarny | early IT was funny | 22:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | You can divide 10 by a lot less numbers than you can say 12 or 16 | 22:27 |
| KotCzarny | see? another human perception | 22:27 |
| hmw_metalab | or 60. 360 | 22:27 |
| KotCzarny | binary ftw. | 22:27 |
| hmw_metalab | Babylonian maths ftw *g* | 22:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | a computer is a tool, use the best tool for the job | 22:28 |
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| KotCzarny | computer is application of theory in practice | 22:29 |
| KotCzarny | and effectively packing numbers is binary based | 22:29 |
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| KotCzarny | not 10th, not 12 | 22:29 |
| KotCzarny | it's just maths, not human perception | 22:30 |
| KotCzarny | for humans you can add some code to display | 22:30 |
| KotCzarny | if we had 4 fingers instead of 5, it would be much more effective | 22:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | oh you said inefficiency. I am loosing my marbles... | 22:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | using base2 means you need more figures making it less human friendly. | 22:32 |
| * sixwheeledbeast imagines a base2 measuring tape... | 22:32 | |
| KotCzarny | really, if we all grew up with 4 fingers on each hand, you would grok binary/octa with mothers milk | 22:34 |
| mp107 | On the other side, binary… may be just a nowadays computers perspective so I am not sure whether it should be treated as a priority | 22:35 |
| KotCzarny | it's basic math, with 2 definite states as a base | 22:36 |
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| mp107 | Yeah, that's also true. Those two states are probably the easiest to differ between them at general level. | 22:38 |
| * mp107 wonders about alien's perspective ;) | 22:40 | |
| KotCzarny | math is universal | 22:40 |
| KotCzarny | that's the trick | 22:40 |
| KotCzarny | human perception is not | 22:40 |
| KotCzarny | physics is applied math in this particular universe | 22:40 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 22:40 |
| KotCzarny | with particular constraints and scales. | 22:43 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Well I have 4 fingers on each hand so .... | 22:44 |
| KotCzarny | but you live in a 10 fingers world. :) | 22:45 |
| KotCzarny | anyway, nite. | 22:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | gn | 22:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | 10 fingers world can use the metric system if that makes them feel at home. | 22:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I'll just use the most convenient scale at the time of measurement. | 22:47 |
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