IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2019-10-22

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OksanaTired. First of all, Nokia N900 (besides broken microUSB port from long ago, and not-functioning cellular modem since recently) has started discharging battery to such a flat state that: 1) alarm doesn't ring with the discharged battery; 2) LED doesn't light up white on power key press (as it ordinarily would for a switched-off Nokia N900).02:38
OksanaAnd no, the back-up battery is fine: Nokia N900 still remembers the time, when I feed a new, fully charged battery to it.02:38
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brolin_empeyHaha, why use the MySQL monitor program when you can simply grep the directory containing the database and use vim to search the file containing the table in the database?12:36
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CatButtsspeaking of battery15:09
CatButtsis it normal for phone to heat up significantly with CPU usage?15:09
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bencohI'd say it's not really unexpected :)15:23
bencohmine does heat up when tethering (usb) for a significant amount of time15:23
bencoh(for instance)15:23
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bencoh(as in, last time I checked, battery reached 46C)15:24
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sixwheeledbeastWould depend on the load and condition of the battery19:48
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Maxdamantus01:09:35 < CatButts> is it normal for phone to heat up significantly with CPU usage?21:34
MaxdamantusYou always expect the heat output to be equal to power consumption.21:34
MaxdamantusIf the phone is using 5 W of power, that means it's producing 5 W of heat.21:35
KotCzarnywhat about energy changed into other energy than thermal?21:35
Maxdamantuslike what?21:35
CatButtsI have no idea how to quantify wattage to physical heat sensation21:35
KotCzarnyyou know, thermal is tiny part of em spectrum21:35
Maxdamantusthermal is basically everything that a phone outputs.21:36
KotCzarnylight? wireless?21:36
CatButtsmaybe I need a lookup table21:36
CatButtsha ha21:36
KotCzarnyit's outside thermal range21:36
MaxdamantusIt turns into heat eventually.21:37
Maxdamantusunless some receiver is turning it into kinetic energy or something, it's going to be heating something up.21:37
KotCzarnyi think we are talking two different physics realities21:38
MaxdamantusSure, it's not the sort of heat that CatButts is talking about (it doesn't necessarily heat up the device)21:38
Maxdamantusbut .. light makes things hot21:39
KotCzarnyyou are thinking about thermal part of em spectrum21:40
MaxdamantusThe reason you'd consider only part of the spectrum to be thermal is because most matter is transparent to the rest of it.21:41
Maxdamantusbut it's never completely transparent.21:41
KotCzarnynot not entirely21:41
KotCzarnyengineers like to approximate energy transfers as heat only21:42
KotCzarnybut it's not the whole picture21:42
Maxdamantusanyway, from Wikipedia:21:44
Maxdamantus> Thermal radiation, also known as heat, is the emission of electromagnetic waves from all matter that has a temperature greater than absolute zero.21:44
CatButtsI am under impression that heat radiation sits on lowest end of IR21:45
MaxdamantusAll EM radiation is heat. It's just a question of how likely it is for that radiation to transfer the heat to the phone body, or the air around it, or your hand, etc.21:46
KotCzarnyi wonder if TDP calculations include whole EM radiation or just part21:47
MaxdamantusI think those usually apply to local areas, like the CPU.21:47
KotCzarnypart of EM spectrum, that is21:47
sixwheeledbeastWhen it comes to processors ICs etc as far as I was aware most of that turns into heat.21:51
KotCzarnymaybe my 'heat' definition wasnt proper then. oh well21:51
KotCzarnyalways nice to remember those things up21:51
Maxdamantuswith TDP, I think the point is about how much heat can be transferred (dissipated) through a particular point.21:58
Maxdamantussince even if you have a massive heatsink/fan, the heat (measured in W) still goes through the CPU.21:58
KotCzarnyi suspect that it still takes only thermal (as in human heat definition) in calculations because rest escapes freely22:00
sixwheeledbeastI always believed TDP was one of those "funny" values where you rate things in the technically incorrect scale due to legacy reasons22:05
KotCzarnyswb: also marketing22:05
KotCzarnyfunny story22:05
sixwheeledbeasta bit like measuring light fittings in wattage instead of lumens22:05
sixwheeledbeastI know that AMD and Intels TDP's are massively different22:06
KotCzarnyciting cpt. jack: 'more what you'd call a guidelines than actual rules'22:07
sixwheeledbeastI have no issue with how any scale is invented as long as it's consistent, they where all invented at some point.22:10
KotCzarnybut some scales are based on immovable physical points22:10
KotCzarnythan just human subjective finger pointing22:10
KotCzarnyswb: #englishlife22:10
sixwheeledbeastsomeone had to decide where those scales where numbered from22:11
sixwheeledbeastImagine if the hottest Kelvin was 022:11
sixwheeledbeasts/w/wh/g :P22:12
sixwheeledbeastexactly is the same ;)22:13
KotCzarnyish? :P22:15
sixwheeledbeastPeople get on there high horse about the metric system being superior but a lot of times it can be less practical22:15
KotCzarny'their' ?22:16
KotCzarnypractical doesnt equal proper. it can help in some situations, sure, but are not universal22:17
KotCzarny*is not22:17
sixwheeledbeast./join #spelling22:17
KotCzarnyit's like optimization working for some part of the code, but being slower in general use22:17
sixwheeledbeastwhat do you define as proper?22:17
hmw_metalabsixwheeledbeast: Well. There is such a thing as negative temperatures, and they are hotter than any positive one.
hmw_metalabSo... 0K isn't the coldest. I hope you enjoy the confusion *evil grin*22:18
KotCzarnyswb: ockham rule? or however it was spelled22:18
sixwheeledbeastan example of why fixed scales can be flawed.22:19
KotCzarnyswb: nah, that's just our flawed perception of reality22:19
KotCzarnythe more we know/see, the better the scales22:20
sixwheeledbeastAs I say with things like these it doesn't matter as long as everyone is on the same page. 1 inch, 1 furlong, 1 millimeter. Not like 90W TDP on different chips is my point22:22
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KotCzarnysure, but imperial is very flawed when it comes to little/big values22:22
sixwheeledbeastas is metric22:23
KotCzarnyie. when you go out of human-proximity range22:23
sixwheeledbeastit's relative to the scale of the measurement.22:23
KotCzarnyimagine code required to convert between all length units in imperial22:24
KotCzarnyit's just overcomplicated22:24
KotCzarnyockham rule.22:24
sixwheeledbeastThe whole point of imperial measurements is each one has an intended purpose.22:24
KotCzarnysure, as i've said, local optimizations22:25
KotCzarnybut failure in generalization22:25
sixwheeledbeastIt's not a one size fits all thing. If "metric" wasn't invented then you would make another "yardstick" for your even bigger measurement.22:25
KotCzarnybiggest inefficiency of metric is being 10 based22:26
sixwheeledbeastI disagree with that too22:26
hmw_metalabKotCzarny: how so??22:26
KotCzarnybecause you then have to convert binary to decimal22:26
KotCzarnyearly IT was funny22:27
sixwheeledbeastYou can divide 10 by a lot less numbers than you can say 12 or 1622:27
KotCzarnysee? another human perception22:27
hmw_metalabor 60. 36022:27
KotCzarnybinary ftw.22:27
hmw_metalabBabylonian maths ftw *g*22:27
sixwheeledbeasta computer is a tool, use the best tool for the job22:28
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KotCzarnycomputer is application of theory in practice22:29
KotCzarnyand effectively packing numbers is binary based22:29
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KotCzarnynot 10th, not 1222:29
KotCzarnyit's just maths, not human perception22:30
KotCzarnyfor humans you can add some code to display22:30
KotCzarnyif we had 4 fingers instead of 5, it would be much more effective22:31
sixwheeledbeastoh you said inefficiency. I am loosing my marbles...22:31
sixwheeledbeastusing base2 means you need more figures making it less human friendly.22:32
* sixwheeledbeast imagines a base2 measuring tape...22:32
KotCzarnyreally, if we all grew up with 4 fingers on each hand, you would grok binary/octa with mothers milk22:34
mp107On the other side, binary… may be just a nowadays computers perspective so I am not sure whether it should be treated as a priority22:35
KotCzarnyit's basic math, with 2 definite states as a base22:36
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mp107Yeah, that's also true. Those two states are probably the easiest to differ between them at general level.22:38
* mp107 wonders about alien's perspective ;)22:40
KotCzarnymath is universal22:40
KotCzarnythat's the trick22:40
KotCzarnyhuman perception is not22:40
KotCzarnyphysics is applied math in this particular universe22:40
KotCzarnywith particular constraints and scales.22:43
sixwheeledbeastWell I have 4 fingers on each hand so ....22:44
KotCzarnybut you live in a 10 fingers world. :)22:45
KotCzarnyanyway, nite.22:45
sixwheeledbeast10 fingers world can use the metric system if that makes them feel at home.22:46
sixwheeledbeastI'll just use the most convenient scale at the time of measurement.22:47
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