IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2018-09-19

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brolin_empey{-0-}: The Debian project already gave the world a woody in 2002 with Debian GNU/Linux version 3.0 . ;-)11:20
brolin_empeySeriously, though, spending time on reconfiguring software to work around the major limitation of having only 256 MiB of physical memory on a computer running GNU+Linux with X seems like using software to work around a hardware problem instead of solving the hardware problem, which usually seems wrong but still often done in practice.11:28
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KotCzarnywhich brings us to the beautifully unoptimized world of current multihundred megabytes desktop envs, thanks.11:29
brolin_empeyI meant as opposed to spending time on the hardware solution of increasing the amount of physical memory but that may be clearly implied from the context.11:33
brolin_empeyThe automotive vehicle industry keeps doing more with less by using less fuel (energy) to provide a longer driving range, though, so I suppose there is an argument for optimising the software to use less memory instead of succumbing to software bloat by adding multiple gigabytes of physical memory.  If the software run on mobile platforms was lean and efficient, though, what would drive demand for 64-bit hardware in mobile/embedded applications?11:40
KotCzarnybig data sets.11:40
KotCzarnyand 4k video.11:41
KotCzarnyalso, you need 64bit hw because you have bloat in software11:41
brolin_empeyYes, that last part is my point: software bloat is beneficial to hardware vendors if it drives demand for new 64-bit computers to replace 32-bit computers.11:44
KotCzarnypeople get lazy.11:44
KotCzarnyplease stop defending laziness11:44
brolin_empeyI just upgraded from 8 GiB of main memory to 16 GiB in my home computer because I use bloated software. :-P11:47
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DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: 4k video on a 800*480 screen? makes sense... NOT12:11
KotCzarnywhere did i wrote about 800x480 screen?12:11
DocScrutinizer05but sure, you could go 4k resolution on a 3.9" screen. First step direction hologram video12:12
KotCzarnyit was answer to some generic question what would need faster bandwidth/wider data instructions12:12
VajbI think that users wanting more "eyecandy" adds bloat to software aswell12:19
KotCzarnythats why users run candy window managers, and power users something that just works and is useful12:21
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KotCzarnys/window managers/wm+de/12:22
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sixwheeledbeastAs the N900 is 10 years old with no available successor, software solutions to hardware limitations seems sensible, no?12:30
sixwheeledbeastThere is also a wear reduction aspect.12:31
sixwheeledbeastLook at meltdown and spectre this is a hardware issue, it's not like we can just throw processors at old hardware. So unideal patches microcode is required.12:34
sixwheeledbeastautomotive industry is bound by Euro emission regulations otherwise they wouldn't care about efficiency, it's about selling cars.12:36
Vajbdo we have tool time programs running time?12:41
Vajbtool for timing?12:41
Vajbi mean if i have algorithm 1 and 2. And I wanna compare their running time12:41
KotCzarnyyou have in shell12:41
KotCzarnytime df12:41
Vajbso "time java program"?12:42
KotCzarnybe sure to run multiple times for good data set :P12:42
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Vajboops. Shaky fingers..12:44
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Vajbthis seems like perfect way to drain battery :D12:47
Vajbmultiplying n by 10 for each run12:48
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sixwheeledbeastIs this on N900 messybox?13:22
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brolin_empeysixwheeledbeast: If the target market of the automotive industry was only a country such as Saudi Arabia where the cost of the fuel needed by the vehicles is very low then what you said may be true but in countries where fuel costs much more I think the cost of the fuel used by the vehicle is important because consumers will not want to buy a vehicle if they cannot afford fuel for it.15:51
brolin_empeyMore generally, the cost of the energy needed by the vehicle to include electric vehicles but using electricity generated by burning fossil fuels for an electric vehicle does not seem better than burning fossil fuels in the vehicle itself.15:54
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brolin_empeyAlso, even an electric utility company with renewable means of generating electricity still relies upon vehicles and probably other equipment using an internal combustion engine instead of an electric motor.15:57
brolin_empeyYes, more generally a heat engine but in modern practice that usually means an internal combustion engine.15:59
sixwheeledbeastManufacturing costs money, having vehicles only for sale in one market is wasteful this is a larger factor than fuel. People will pay for fuel upto a point as vehicle owners are generally more affluent.16:00
sixwheeledbeastVajb: { time java program; }  2>> output.txt16:03
brolin_empeyDoes the N950 count as a successor to the N900?16:04
brolin_empeyHow about the BlackBerry Priv if the user could have superuser access to the stock OS or if the user could replace the OS?16:06
brolin_empeyMaybe at least one of those two modifications is possible by now because the Priv was released almost three years ago.16:08
brolin_empeyYes, the battery is still difficult to remove on the Priv but many users (generally, not only on BlackBerry) seem to not care about this limitation, at least not until it personally affects them.16:10
brolin_empeyI am assuming that an integrated hardware keyboard is deemed a requirement for a handheld computer to be considered a successor the N900.  If an integrated hardware keyboard is not required then can the GTA04 be considered a successor to the N900?16:23
brolin_empeyMaybe some region-specific model with an integrated hardware keyboard exists but I am not aware of it because the language or region is foreign to me, such as in India or “China”?16:28
sixwheeledbeastReplacement would not mean "if this or that".16:30
brolin_empeyI think I would likely have found such a product offered on the Internet by someone in India, though, because English seems to be popular in India because India has many regional languages but English is a global language.16:32
brolin_empeyThen what does it mean for something to be a successor to the N900?  Even back in 2011, the Nexus One could already run Debian GNU+Linux as the host OS but without cellular telephony capability.  Maybe that capability has been added since then.16:36
brolin_empeyWhat about Ubuntu Touch?  Apparently it is even discontinued too, which makes it even more like Maemo. ;-)16:38
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brolin_empeySeriously, though, something being discontinued seems to often not matter in practice.16:40
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brolin_empeyIs this situation similar to defining a successor to the Amiga models officially released by Commodore before its fall in 1994/1995?16:45
brolin_empeyI guess the condition for the N950 to be a successor is the ability to obtain an N950.16:48
KotCzarnyn950 is n9 with hw kb. also, greatly locked. not fun.16:51
brolin_empeyGreatly locked even around seven (?) years after release?16:52
KotCzarnydarn, bot is missing16:53
KotCzarnyldd /usr/bin/ffmpeg |wc -l16:57
KotCzarnyWHAT. THE. FUCK.16:57
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sixwheeledbeastAt least all the hardware features for starters.17:10
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brolin_empeyEven the FM radio?17:15
brolin_empeyEven the FM radio in Norway? ;-)17:16
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sixwheeledbeastyep RX and TX17:41
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KotCzarnyldd ffmpeg |wc -l17:53
KotCzarnymuch better.17:53
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brolin_empeysixwheeledbeast: Even the only surface-mounted USB connector? ;-)20:07
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sixwheeledbeastI wouldn't call that a feature. I also have had minimal issues with N900 USB connectors.20:09
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infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
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inzoops. sorry22:58
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