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| brolin_empey | {-0-}: The Debian project already gave the world a woody in 2002 with Debian GNU/Linux version 3.0 . ;-) | 11:20 |
|---|---|---|
| brolin_empey | Seriously, though, spending time on reconfiguring software to work around the major limitation of having only 256 MiB of physical memory on a computer running GNU+Linux with X seems like using software to work around a hardware problem instead of solving the hardware problem, which usually seems wrong but still often done in practice. | 11:28 |
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| KotCzarny | which brings us to the beautifully unoptimized world of current multihundred megabytes desktop envs, thanks. | 11:29 |
| brolin_empey | I meant as opposed to spending time on the hardware solution of increasing the amount of physical memory but that may be clearly implied from the context. | 11:33 |
| brolin_empey | The automotive vehicle industry keeps doing more with less by using less fuel (energy) to provide a longer driving range, though, so I suppose there is an argument for optimising the software to use less memory instead of succumbing to software bloat by adding multiple gigabytes of physical memory. If the software run on mobile platforms was lean and efficient, though, what would drive demand for 64-bit hardware in mobile/embedded applications? | 11:40 |
| KotCzarny | big data sets. | 11:40 |
| KotCzarny | and 4k video. | 11:41 |
| KotCzarny | also, you need 64bit hw because you have bloat in software | 11:41 |
| brolin_empey | Yes, that last part is my point: software bloat is beneficial to hardware vendors if it drives demand for new 64-bit computers to replace 32-bit computers. | 11:44 |
| KotCzarny | people get lazy. | 11:44 |
| KotCzarny | please stop defending laziness | 11:44 |
| brolin_empey | I just upgraded from 8 GiB of main memory to 16 GiB in my home computer because I use bloated software. :-P | 11:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: 4k video on a 800*480 screen? makes sense... NOT | 12:11 |
| KotCzarny | where did i wrote about 800x480 screen? | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but sure, you could go 4k resolution on a 3.9" screen. First step direction hologram video | 12:12 |
| KotCzarny | it was answer to some generic question what would need faster bandwidth/wider data instructions | 12:12 |
| Vajb | I think that users wanting more "eyecandy" adds bloat to software aswell | 12:19 |
| KotCzarny | thats why users run candy window managers, and power users something that just works and is useful | 12:21 |
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| KotCzarny | s/window managers/wm+de/ | 12:22 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | As the N900 is 10 years old with no available successor, software solutions to hardware limitations seems sensible, no? | 12:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | There is also a wear reduction aspect. | 12:31 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Look at meltdown and spectre this is a hardware issue, it's not like we can just throw processors at old hardware. So unideal patches microcode is required. | 12:34 |
| sixwheeledbeast | automotive industry is bound by Euro emission regulations otherwise they wouldn't care about efficiency, it's about selling cars. | 12:36 |
| Vajb | do we have tool time programs running time? | 12:41 |
| Vajb | tool for timing? | 12:41 |
| Vajb | i mean if i have algorithm 1 and 2. And I wanna compare their running time | 12:41 |
| KotCzarny | you have in shell | 12:41 |
| KotCzarny | time df | 12:41 |
| KotCzarny | etc | 12:42 |
| Vajb | so "time java program"? | 12:42 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 12:42 |
| Vajb | thx | 12:42 |
| KotCzarny | be sure to run multiple times for good data set :P | 12:42 |
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| Vajb | oops. Shaky fingers.. | 12:44 |
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| Vajb | this seems like perfect way to drain battery :D | 12:47 |
| Vajb | multiplying n by 10 for each run | 12:48 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Is this on N900 messybox? | 13:22 |
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| Vajb | yup | 13:41 |
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| brolin_empey | sixwheeledbeast: If the target market of the automotive industry was only a country such as Saudi Arabia where the cost of the fuel needed by the vehicles is very low then what you said may be true but in countries where fuel costs much more I think the cost of the fuel used by the vehicle is important because consumers will not want to buy a vehicle if they cannot afford fuel for it. | 15:51 |
| brolin_empey | More generally, the cost of the energy needed by the vehicle to include electric vehicles but using electricity generated by burning fossil fuels for an electric vehicle does not seem better than burning fossil fuels in the vehicle itself. | 15:54 |
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| brolin_empey | Also, even an electric utility company with renewable means of generating electricity still relies upon vehicles and probably other equipment using an internal combustion engine instead of an electric motor. | 15:57 |
| brolin_empey | Yes, more generally a heat engine but in modern practice that usually means an internal combustion engine. | 15:59 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Manufacturing costs money, having vehicles only for sale in one market is wasteful this is a larger factor than fuel. People will pay for fuel upto a point as vehicle owners are generally more affluent. | 16:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Vajb: { time java program; } 2>> output.txt | 16:03 |
| brolin_empey | Does the N950 count as a successor to the N900? | 16:04 |
| brolin_empey | How about the BlackBerry Priv if the user could have superuser access to the stock OS or if the user could replace the OS? | 16:06 |
| brolin_empey | Maybe at least one of those two modifications is possible by now because the Priv was released almost three years ago. | 16:08 |
| brolin_empey | Yes, the battery is still difficult to remove on the Priv but many users (generally, not only on BlackBerry) seem to not care about this limitation, at least not until it personally affects them. | 16:10 |
| brolin_empey | I am assuming that an integrated hardware keyboard is deemed a requirement for a handheld computer to be considered a successor the N900. If an integrated hardware keyboard is not required then can the GTA04 be considered a successor to the N900? | 16:23 |
| brolin_empey | Maybe some region-specific model with an integrated hardware keyboard exists but I am not aware of it because the language or region is foreign to me, such as in India or “China”? | 16:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Replacement would not mean "if this or that". | 16:30 |
| brolin_empey | I think I would likely have found such a product offered on the Internet by someone in India, though, because English seems to be popular in India because India has many regional languages but English is a global language. | 16:32 |
| brolin_empey | Then what does it mean for something to be a successor to the N900? Even back in 2011, the Nexus One could already run Debian GNU+Linux as the host OS but without cellular telephony capability. Maybe that capability has been added since then. | 16:36 |
| brolin_empey | What about Ubuntu Touch? Apparently it is even discontinued too, which makes it even more like Maemo. ;-) | 16:38 |
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| brolin_empey | Seriously, though, something being discontinued seems to often not matter in practice. | 16:40 |
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| brolin_empey | Is this situation similar to defining a successor to the Amiga models officially released by Commodore before its fall in 1994/1995? | 16:45 |
| brolin_empey | I guess the condition for the N950 to be a successor is the ability to obtain an N950. | 16:48 |
| KotCzarny | n950 is n9 with hw kb. also, greatly locked. not fun. | 16:51 |
| brolin_empey | Greatly locked even around seven (?) years after release? | 16:52 |
| KotCzarny | ~aegis | 16:53 |
| KotCzarny | darn, bot is missing | 16:53 |
| Wizzup | droid4? | 16:53 |
| KotCzarny | ldd /usr/bin/ffmpeg |wc -l | 16:57 |
| KotCzarny | 187 | 16:57 |
| KotCzarny | WHAT. THE. FUCK. | 16:57 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | At least all the hardware features for starters. | 17:10 |
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| brolin_empey | Even the FM radio? | 17:15 |
| brolin_empey | Even the FM radio in Norway? ;-) | 17:16 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | yep RX and TX | 17:41 |
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| KotCzarny | ldd ffmpeg |wc -l | 17:53 |
| KotCzarny | 10 | 17:53 |
| KotCzarny | much better. | 17:53 |
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| brolin_empey | sixwheeledbeast: Even the only surface-mounted USB connector? ;-) | 20:07 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | I wouldn't call that a feature. I also have had minimal issues with N900 USB connectors. | 20:09 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | ~wb | 20:24 |
| infobot | thx | 20:24 |
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| brolin_empey | ~aegis | 20:46 |
| infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 20:46 |
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| inz | http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 22:58 |
| inz | oops. sorry | 22:58 |
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