IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2018-02-28

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Juestowho's nick is Marius Gedmias?01:24
DocScrutinizer05mgedmin, owner of povbot01:26
Juestoah thanks01:26
Juestohe's not here it seems, wanted to bring povbot to #maemo-leste01:28
DocScrutinizer05good luck01:28
Juestocurrent logbot is quick n dirty thing, single log and only logs joins and chat01:28
DocScrutinizer05you'll need ti get chanops/founders of maemo-leste to ask. Like every responsible bot operator, marius won't join the bot to a channel without explicit permission by chan authorities01:31
Juestooh that's Wizzup and parazyd, DocScrutinizer0501:31
Juesto] <@parazyd> if someone wants, get the #maemo bot here then01:32
Juestooh well01:32
Juestomaybe not the best moment to ask01:32
Juestobut he said that so... i guess that counts as a yes?01:32
DocScrutinizer05I told you: >>you'll need ti get chanops/founders of maemo-leste to ask<<01:33
DocScrutinizer05Marius won't use citations as permission, and he has no way to review his chanlog unless he is in the channel already. He also won't contact anybody proactively to ask them if they will allow the bot.01:35
DocScrutinizer05at least when his policies are like the ones of any other bot owner I know01:35
Juestookay, sorry. the channel already have ii as logbot as i said01:36
Juestoat least i tried01:36
DocScrutinizer05and tbh I don't see why there's a #maemo-leste channel01:36
Juestobecause of the project?01:37
DocScrutinizer05ok, same rationale like for #harmattan may apply01:38
JuestoI guess :)01:38
Juestoand #cssu01:39
DocScrutinizer05um, no, actually maemo-cssu should get merged into #maemo01:39
DocScrutinizer05it been created in a time when there was lots of user chatzer in here and devels needed a separate channel for their own very busy communications01:40
DocScrutinizer05now neither here nor even less there is a traffic that warrants two separate channels01:40
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DocScrutinizer05the reasoning for #harmattan been: both called 'maemo' by Nokia, so users asking "how do I do XY on maemo" would always be ambiguous and result in endless explanations of the wrong thing01:45
DocScrutinizer05expert: "now click A!" - user: "but I have only c and d, A was during last step already"01:47
Juestoexcept when the user mentioned their phone model or maemo version01:48
DocScrutinizer05or worse: "now start X by typing 'X <enter>' in commandline."  user: "I get -bash: X: command not found"01:49
DocScrutinizer05see? we solved that "mention version" issue by a new channel and /topic : N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan !01:50
DocScrutinizer05anyway when you want povbot, make a chanop /query mgedmin01:52
Juestoand if anyone talks about Bora?01:52
DocScrutinizer05he's most likely asleep now, his in Vilnius01:52
DocScrutinizer05nobody uses Bora anymore01:53
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, codenames is
Juestoi tried bora on scratchbox and it was broken lol01:53
DocScrutinizer05POV: Programmers Of Vilnius01:54
Juestodoesn't say about phone support01:54
Juestohmm i see01:54
Juestodiablo works on scratchbox :p01:55
Juestobut way too bare, missing plugins01:55
DocScrutinizer05s/his/he's/ ffs01:57
DocScrutinizer05or better ☕ ☕ ☕01:58
DocScrutinizer05re >>the reasoning for #harmattan been: both called 'maemo<< same applies to maemo-leste, since allas it's not really meant to be compatible to fremantle02:00
Wizzupso far all the dbus calls and gconf keys from fremantle work fine ;)02:01
Juestosicelo: ^ :) that gconf app *should* work fine on Leste02:03
Juestogconf preferences thingy kind of app02:03
DocScrutinizer05good. does it run on maemo-leste already?02:04
Juestoit should, i was able to run it under scratchbox02:04
Wizzupgconftool is available yes02:04
DocScrutinizer05I mean, it's oooold and probably even its successor obsoleted by now02:04
Juestothere's a hildon-akin port of the gnome/gtk app02:04
Juestofremantle scratchbox02:05
WizzupI think GNOME(3) still use gconf02:05
DocScrutinizer05gconf yes, gconftool no02:05
Juestoleste isnt on gtk3 yet, right?02:05
Wizzupthere's gtk2 and gtk3.02:06
JuestoI've used gconftool on gnome 302:06
DocScrutinizer05last time I checked, I seem to recall it's been deprecated and marked obsolete on the gconf website02:07
DocScrutinizer05err gnome website?02:07
Juestogood idea for a poll: have a scratchbox of leste? to satisfy those people used to Nokia's way02:07
Wizzupthen there will be gconftool-2, so will likely require minor changes02:07
DocScrutinizer05on harmattan gconftool is a symlink to gconftool-202:08
* Juesto feels dumb02:08
DocScrutinizer05or vice versa02:08
DocScrutinizer05damn, on fremantle02:08
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls -l `which gconftool`02:09
DocScrutinizer05lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 27 2014-12-06 12:41 /usr/bin/gconftool -> /etc/alternatives/gconftool02:09
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls -l /etc/alternatives/gconftool02:10
DocScrutinizer05lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2014-12-06 12:41 /etc/alternatives/gconftool -> /usr/bin/gconftool-202:10
* Oksana nods02:12
DocScrutinizer05hi! :-)02:15
Oksanahello! :-)02:16
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# rl(){ if r=`readlink "$1"`; then echo -n "$(ls -F "$1"|sed 's/ -> .*//') -> "; rl "$r"; else ls -lF "$1"; fi }03:27
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# rl `which gconftool`03:27
DocScrutinizer05/usr/bin/gconftool@ -> /etc/alternatives/gconftool@ -> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 47968 2010-06-08 18:48 /usr/bin/gconftool-2*03:27
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: the reason for #maemo-leste is to keep developer S/N ratio as high as possible. I guess as soon as we have alpha or beta images we'll move here. What we have so far is not really usable for the end-user, but lots of people got excited08:57
freemangordonso I would expect to have lots of questions like "my fav app is not available still, could you put it into the repos" in the middle of unrelated conversation regarding mce not talking to systemui, for example :)08:59
freemangordonre compatibility with fremantle - again, we do our best to keep it as much compatible as humanly possible. We still didn;t try installing/running stuff from fremantle repos, but the reason being that armel n900 images doesn;t work. Because of armel PVR userspace not being worked on - there are higher priority things ATM09:02
KotCzarnyis whatsapp already working on leste? ;)09:03
freemangordonsure :p09:03
KotCzarnyfor testing oscp is not bad, it is kept to require as few deps as possible09:04
KotCzarnys/testing/testing audio09:04
freemangordonwhich is not a good idea until we have xprot packaged for leste09:05
KotCzarnyyou should write it in big letters then09:05
KotCzarnythose newbies might hurt themselves trying that09:05
freemangordonI think it is written09:05
KotCzarnyor simply disable loudspeakers by default config09:06
freemangordonhmm, it is not :(. We have an issue for that, but still09:06
freemangordonthey are disabled by default09:06
KotCzarnyoh nice that you got pavelmachek on the project09:09
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brolin_empeyHeh, apparently my company has the same size of block for its OUI as Openmoko Inc. (both companies have 2.**24 unique values).10:30
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brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: Do you know what price Openmoko paid the IEEE for the Openmoko OUI?10:32
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brolin_empeyOr “pow(2,24) unique values” if you speak C instead of Python.10:49
brolin_empeyYes, I realise that that is actually a call to a library function, as opposed to an expression without a function call in Python.10:51
brolin_empeyI mean in the Python language.  The CPython interpreter may call the pow function from the C runtime library.10:52
brolin_empeyWhat is the Holy Grail of Python?  Reportedly Guido van Rossum has already procreated so I guess he can no longer offer his firstborn child.10:54
brolin_empeyHeh, I guess the persons who argue that whitespace rewrites are a waste of time do not use Python.10:58
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MaxdamantusWouldn't `2.**24` in Python just mean the same thing as `2..__pow__(24)` or something?11:43
Maxdamantus>>> 2..__pow__(24) == 2.**2411:44
Wizzupsure, but who would use __pow__ :)11:45
MaxdamantusWell, the point is that it's just syntactic sugar for a function call.11:46
Maxdamantus(afaik .. I don't really know Python very well)11:46
* Maxdamantus is partially surprised he guessed it correctly and that it didn't turn out to be something like `(2.)._exp_(24)`11:47
WizzupMaxdamantus: so is ... == ... and + ... and - ... and * ... ;-)11:47
Wizzup__eq__, __add__, __sub__11:48
MaxdamantusIndeed. Though is isn't.11:48
Maxdamantusis is not.11:48
Maxdamantus... is ...11:48
Wizzupoh, the keyword is.11:49
Wizzupthat is type match, so yes11:49
MaxdamantusIs is not, yes.11:49
KotCzarnythat conversation begins to look like some comedian sketch12:07
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MaxdamantusWhat's the guy's name on second base?12:10
KotCzarnyor was that 1st base12:11
MaxdamantusWho's on first.12:12
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pkill9nice i didn't know numbers had __pow__ method14:24
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Juestocomedy sketch, huh?14:39
Juestostand-up about computers... :D14:39
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sixwheeledbeastfour candles15:36
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DocScrutinizer05brolin_empey: OUI?18:43
KotCzarnymac pool18:43
DocScrutinizer05no idea18:44
DocScrutinizer05I know that OM bought their USB ID _before_ the USB folks outlawed sharing USB IDs ;-P18:45
DocScrutinizer05hah, my infobot watchdog works18:47
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: if you feel like running XPROT test - I got a 200 spare speakers ;-)18:50
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: :D18:54
DocScrutinizer05btw <me, 2011> "hello Nokia? How long until you ship the N900? I'm waiting, can't I get an early model and update any firmware fixes later? I would not bother your about any early bugs"  >Nokia Hotline>:"Sorry we can't do this. And you wouldn't want to destroy your speakers with a firmware that doesn't take care, would you?"18:54
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freemangordon2011? more like 200918:54
KotCzarnyor 200818:55
Wizzupactually I may look at testing xprot port next month18:55
DocScrutinizer05just saying, XPROT seems to be an afterthought, developed in a hurry under extreme pressure. Expect BS in there18:57
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what "X" stand for in XPROT. Crash? Exitus?18:58
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freemangordoneXtended, eXtraterrestrial ?19:20
DocScrutinizer05((expect BS)) actually I think it's quite overengineered19:20
freemangordonthough I don;t expect problems19:20
DocScrutinizer05seems to check e.g. environment temperature or somesuch, which is totally irrelevant19:21
freemangordonI tested it enough to be sure it behaves in exactly the same way as stock, just faster19:21
DocScrutinizer05ooh great! :-))19:21
DocScrutinizer05do you understand what exactly it does?19:21
DocScrutinizer05not that this would be a requirement19:22
DocScrutinizer05just curious19:23
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: see
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: IIRC it does speaker coil temperature prediction/estimation and controls HPF based on that temp19:24
DocScrutinizer05yeah, somesuch must be it.19:25
DocScrutinizer05from an engineering POV a simple low frequency energy limiter algo would have sufficed19:25
DocScrutinizer05aka frequency selective limiter/ALC19:26
freemangordonthey might have something already done in symbian and just reused it19:26
DocScrutinizer05even likely19:26
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freemangordonbecause nokia-voice module uses a kind of a "binary executable" (it has a main() function even) embedded in the .so19:27
DocScrutinizer05I *think* a simple fixed-parameters HPF would have done just fine19:27
freemangordonwhich I guess was not invented for fremantle/n90019:27
freemangordonanyway, I am back to REing connui related stuff19:28
DocScrutinizer05oooh nice19:28
freemangordonah, you-re not aware, sec :)19:28
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ^^^19:29
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DocScrutinizer05you seen the PIA offer I posted in neo chan?19:42
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: no, most of the time int last couple of days I was scratching my head trying to figure out why connui does not work :). Saw it now in the chanlog19:51
freemangordon*in the19:51
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, pia is ask me about pita20:10
KotCzarnypia is typo'ed pita20:11
KotCzarnywhich is pain in the a..20:11
siceloi see now, in the chan ... it's an org20:11
KotCzarnyusually non-native english speakers forget about a/the rules and omit them20:11
KotCzarnyofftopic, anyone knows the reason or easy fix why chroot'ed commands fail on older kernel? (generic linux)20:13
KotCzarnyjessie chroot, 3.4.x kernel20:13
Juestothere's a kernel channel iirc, debian or devuan?20:13
KotCzarnyde-systemded debian20:14
Juestoyou'll get better assistance either in devuan, debian, linux or a kernel channel20:14
Juestothen devuan20:14
KotCzarnynah, it's about running scratchbox chroot on jessie20:14
Juestolol infobot20:15
KotCzarnythe one for n900 work ok, but the one for n8x0 fails20:15
KotCzarnyand both work on mainline kernel20:15
Juestoah i see hmm20:15
KotCzarnyso probably some thing about glibc/kernel difference20:15
KotCzarnybut my question is if there is easy tweak/fix20:15
Juestono clue but should :)20:16
Juestowhat errors it gives20:16
Juestoinfobot: pia is Private Internet Access20:16
infobot...but pia is already something else...20:16
KotCzarnynone. it just hangs20:16
Juestosyslog, etc?20:17
Juestoas in, anything there?20:17
KotCzarnyno. it probably hangs on some sysop20:17
Juestoshould there be some log somewhere imo20:18
Juestooh :(20:18
Juestois the fs binded correctly? perhaps it's a package conflict somewhere?20:19
DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, PIA is
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0520:20
Juestosicelo: may i pm?20:21
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infobotrefer ~flashing; (also .exe!), or or generally   HARMattan(N9):; list of filenames/md5sums:, or
KotCzarnycheck ~flashing too20:57
infobotmaemo-flashing is probably, or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing20:57
micknameI made my n900 bootloop :(20:58
infobothmm... bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device.20:58
KotCzarnybroken fs or flat battery?20:58
micknameIt was retired to work as a wireless pulseaudio bridge and I messed around with the cssu packages20:59
KotCzarnyuh oh20:59
micknamehad been up for around a year, shouln't have touched it :d20:59
KotCzarnyor did a backup20:59
micknameIt reboot after the dots hands animation, after reinserting battery, it allows to setup the locale stuff but shuts down after that,21:02
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micknameI have a feeling that I'll just get a raspberry pi or something to replace it, the poor old n900 struggles at around 60% cpu usage while ssh-tunneling audio21:04
KotCzarnyrpi is overpriced piece of trash21:04
KotCzarnythere are better and cheaper alternatives21:04
KotCzarnyget something with best mainline support21:04
micknameIs there such a thing :p21:05
KotCzarnyallwinner isnt half bad thanks for community efforts21:05
KotCzarnybut be sure something that is already well supported21:06
KotCzarnysoc with a53 cores that have aes implemented, rock21:06
sixwheeledbeastrpi is useful for it's purpose, teaching. They where never suppose to be used as servers and other things people use.21:14
KotCzarnynor any other cheap sbc21:15
sixwheeledbeastyour n900 will be repairable and unlikely to be slow if you start fresh21:16
KotCzarnyi bow to rpi foundation for making hobby sbc popular21:16
KotCzarnybut other than that, i swear by boards with mainline support21:16
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pkill9sixwheeledbeast: what boards are a decent equivalent to the Pi22:23
KotCzarnyall of them22:24
sixwheeledbeastlike beagleboard if sbc?22:24
pkill9but the orangepi can have power issues22:24
Juestoit's all competitive :)22:24
KotCzarnyonly user inflicted22:24
KotCzarnyie. going cheapest of the cheap22:25
pkill9so what alternatives are there to the Pi, other than beaglebone and banana pi (all that i know of), also there's that x86 board22:26
pkill9can't remember what it's called22:26
KotCzarnybananas are bad22:26
KotCzarnyonly a20 ones are decent22:26
KotCzarnyyou think of asus tinkerboard probably22:26
pkill9you said all of the boards are a decent equivalent to the Pi22:27
pkill9nah it was something else22:27
KotCzarnybut there are better and worse22:27
KotCzarnybananas are on the worse end22:27
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