IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2017-11-17

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OksanaaIs Mugen alive?
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OksanaaAm I correct in saying that there are only three phones capable of running Maemo/Mer/MeeGo/Sailfish, having a camera and a hardware keyboard: Nokia N900, Nokia N950 and Jolla+TOHkeyboard ?05:43
OksanaaBecause Nokia N900 isn't quite compatible with Telstra network in Australia, and my cellular provider recommends switching to a different device.05:43
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CatButtssilly keepassx09:23
KotCzarnychange your theme to eat less button space09:25
qazWhat package provides perl module File::Temp ? it was on my n900 before os reinstall. Seems something was removed from repos since then09:26
CatButtsI'm using one of the default themes09:26
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CatButtswhich one do you suggest09:27
CatButtsI'm also using an application to make fonts smaller09:28
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CatButtsno wait, it's set on default09:28
CatButtsFont Changer09:29
brolin_empeyOksanaa: I guess that the Neo900 meets your critera too?09:36
infobotbrolin_empey meant: Oksanaa: I guess that the Neo900 meets your criteria too?09:37
infobotbrolin_empey meant: Okanaa: I guess that the Neo900 meets your critera too?09:38
brolin_empeys/ //09:38
infobotbrolin_empey meant: Oksanaa:I guess that the Neo900 meets your critera too?09:38
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CatButts>ALWAYS TEST to ensure you have done it right BEFORE rebooting or you WILL end up with an unbootable system.10:26
CatButtsso tempting, so scary10:27
MaxdamantusOne of the reasons why you should set up an alternative boot sequence to get into a system where you can fix this sort of stuff.10:28
CatButtsthat, or playing scorched earth on fault :P10:31
CatButtsso, about this alternate boot sequence...10:32
KotCzarnythere is always rescueos10:35
MaxdamantusThat's the obvious one.10:36
MaxdamantusI don't use the ubifs on NAND for the normal OS, so I basically use that as a pseudo-initramfs when booting normally, or to a shell using a 3.14 kernel.10:38
infobothmm... rescueos is
brolin_empeyIs it feasible to run the OS from the internal SD card?  Then you could easily access the OS installation from another computer by removing the SD card if the OS installation will not boot on the N900.10:40
KotCzarnyrequires os scripts changes10:41
KotCzarnybecause there are quite a few assumptions what happens with sdcard10:41
KotCzarnyie. when back cover is removed10:41
KotCzarnyor mounting partitions10:42
MaxdamantusThe back cover issue requires a replacement of the mmc kernel module.10:42
sixwheeledbeastI think there is a version of keepass with the buttons changed to fit N900 better somewhere.10:42
KotCzarnyso while it is doable, expect gotchas10:42
brolin_empeyHas anyone successfully used an N900 running an OS from the SD card, though?10:43
MaxdamantusThe easier solution would be to just put something like rescueos on the SD card, so you can boot into that and fix things there.10:44
Maxdamantusbrolin_empey: I'd imagine so. It's certainly possible.10:44
CatButtsRescueOS has to be booted using a flasher tool?10:45
Maxdamantusbrolin_empey: if you're familiar with tweaking/debugging the init mechanisms used on a Linux system, you should be able to figure it out.10:45
brolin_empeyI see that some current models of x86-64 desktop motherboards have M.2 sockets, which is neat because then the (up to at least 6) integrated SATA ports can be saved for non-SSD devices such as HDDs and ODDs.10:45
* Maxdamantus runs everything off eMMC .. would probably have been pretty much the same changes to make it work from SD.10:46
KotCzarnycabutts: yes, but it's ram upload, also always works (assuming battery is ok)10:46
CatButtsI'm familiar with Android rescue boots requiring one of the volume keys pressed10:46
CatButtsduring normal boot-up10:46
Maxdamantus(except for the mmc driver change, which would basically be required to prevent the system dying when taking the back cover off)10:46
KotCzarnyif you preset uboot for menu boot you can have similar10:47
* Maxdamantus already changed the mmc driver to not do that anyway.10:47
CatButts>Uboot PR1.3. RISKY INSTALL10:50
CatButtswell, if I break something, I can always rely on reflashing, right?10:51
CatButtswhat are the odds of a permanent brick?10:51
MaxdamantusVery low if you still have USB working.10:52
MaxdamantusYou can pretty much always reflash using USB, unless you overwrite NOLO, dunno how to do that.10:54
infobotrumour has it, nolo is NOkia bootLOader, Nokia's version of uboot-alike first (actually 2nd) stage bootloader for NIT like N900, or somebody said it was a nasty character in Norwegian languange10:54
CatButtsfirst or 2nd10:58
CatButtsalmond wine or cyanide :P10:58
CatButtsso what does installing uboot mean for ability to flash phone again?11:01
MaxdamantusYou can still flash it.11:01
CatButtsah, so no worries there11:01
Maxdamantusbut one advantage is that you probably don't need to.11:01
MaxdamantusSince you can just store multiple kernels on eMMC or SD and boot from one of those.11:02
CatButtsProbably would help being familiar with Linux more11:13
CatButtsI am a windows user11:13
KotCzarnyyes. n900 is all about linux11:14
KotCzarnyn00bs go to android11:14
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CatButtsI've had an Xperia E11:18
CatButtsdidn't stick too long11:19
CatButtsI don't like android very much11:19
CatButtsparticularely the UI design the capacitive touchscreen imposes11:19
CatButtsno stylus smaller than a meat sausage!11:20
CatButtsalso, keyboards/keypads are a minority11:22
* CatButts mumbles something about Steve Jobs rolling in his grave11:25
CatButts"We already have 10 stylii, we don't need to invent another one."11:28
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brolin_empey“<KotCzarny> n00bs go to android” Or to Apple iOS.12:12
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__axon__hello everyone, I have a used n900. What is the most uptodate instructions to bring it as uptodate as possible? Which libraries are still online?12:35
infoboti guess maemo-flashing is, or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing12:41
infobotcssu is, like,, or (Community Seamless Software Update)12:41
KotCzarnythose two pieces12:42
__axon__CatButts, KotCzarny, I'll try and let you know what happend! Thanks a lot!12:45
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CatButtsalso this12:49
CatButtsthe articles still have a lot of dead links to nokia site12:50
KotCzarnyflasher script from infobot has all working links12:50
KotCzarnyand is preferred12:51
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__axon__one other question, does anyone of you guys prefer an more uptodate device ... or has insider informations about neo900?12:57
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CatButtsneo900's pricetag scares me :P12:57
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KotCzarnyfor neo900 info go to #neo90012:58
CatButtsactually, disregard my previous statement, as it's based on an outdated memory13:01
__axon__CatButts, KotCzarny, Thank you guys! everthing worked like charme out of the box! may I ask: do you have a list of applications, that are super useful?13:38
KotCzarnywhat uses are you looking for?13:38
__axon__Or do you have a python2.7 version?13:38
KotCzarnypython should be available i think13:38
KotCzarnyinstall any pygtk app and see13:39
CatButtsget sheepdrawing :P13:39
__axon__with apt-cache search I get only 2.513:39
__axon__not 2.713:39
__axon__And is it worth to install any camera apps? are they really better?13:40
KotCzarnysome say yes13:40
__axon__Is there a good calendar app?13:40
KotCzarnyoksana is the best local camera freak13:40
__axon__Is there a good method to enable swap? Or will I never use it in your experience?13:41
KotCzarnymemory is low13:41
KotCzarnyso yes, might be good in some uses, but better to clear the device a bit13:41
KotCzarnyremember some apps are preloaded even if you dont use them13:42
KotCzarnyi personally just disable the preloading (ie. email app)13:42
__axon__how do you do that?13:43
__axon__is it somewhere in the menu?13:44
KotCzarnyby disabling preloading line in /usr/applications/hildon/ or something13:44
KotCzarnydont remember exact path13:44
KotCzarnyso i guess first things you should install is rootsh and ssh server13:45
CatButtsWhat sound API would I use for a quick-n-dirty CLI sound test on the N900?13:50
KotCzarnyaplay ?13:50
KotCzarnymplayer works too13:50
CatButtsaplay is CLI tool and not sound API?13:51
CatButtsrealtime audio13:51
CatButtslike playing a programatically generated sine, for starters13:51
KotCzarnysystem is hostage of evilaudio13:51
KotCzarnyif you ask about that13:52
bencohpaplay, since maemo uses pulse13:52
KotCzarnyyou can disable it, but then never use device speakers with raw alsa13:52
bencohoh, and ... the pulse API then13:52
KotCzarnybencoh, evilaudio provides alsa emulation socket too i think13:52
bencohyes, there is a alsa->pulse emulation layer13:53
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CatButtsI should probably take the SDL path13:53
CatButtsI installed EdiCom editor and ran its gcc install scripts, but I feel I might regret it :P13:55
KotCzarnyyou will13:55
KotCzarnyyou can have fun with gcc on device, but dont go apt way13:56
KotCzarnyrootfs space is precious and scarce13:56
CatButtslooking at, it does apt-get13:57
KotCzarnymaybe they have prepared som optified package13:58
KotCzarnybut be warned13:58
CatButtsapt-get install13:58
KotCzarnyonce you get rootfs full its close to bootloop13:58
CatButtsgcc, libc6-dev, linux-kernel-headers, libgcc1, gdb13:58
CatButtsdoesn't N900 have 32gb internal?13:59
KotCzarnyyes, but rootfs is on nand13:59
KotCzarnythere is 2gb for user data in emmc, rest is vfat in mydocs13:59
CatButts1.22gb available14:01
CatButtsvfat does not allow executables to be executed, right?14:02
KotCzarnyand generally breaks permissions14:02
KotCzarnyand file naming14:02
KotCzarnybest way could be sdcard formatted to ext3/4 and using build tools there14:03
KotCzarnyor even debian chroot14:03
CatButtsvfat is not formatable, yes?14:03
KotCzarnyi have a scratchbox chroot that fits in ~300MB initially14:04
KotCzarnyyup, dont mess with predefined partitions14:04
KotCzarnyhardcoded stuff in plenty of places14:04
KotCzarnyunless you are willing to learn14:04
bencohCatButts: you can repartition eMMC with a larger /home though14:05
bencohthere is a wiki page about that iirc14:05
bencoh(or maybe even a script)14:05
pkill9do most people here use maemo on their n900 or load an alternate distribution?14:07
KotCzarnyi run maemo14:08
KotCzarnywith cssu thumb14:08
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KotCzarnyand some hacks for more memory14:08
DocScrutinizer05~tell __axon__ about jrtools14:08
CatButtswhat advantages does thumb have besides saving space14:10
infobot[chroot] a way to change the root directory of a process, see also
KotCzarnysaving space == saving memory14:14
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CatButtspower-kernel can coexist with uboot, yes?14:32
sicelo13:40 < __axon__> Is there a good calendar app? << qalendar14:34
siceloCatButts: yes14:34
Vajbdefault calendar is good enough :)14:35
Vajboff topic: i find it odd that windows calendar can't show weeks14:35
siceloVajb: qalendar is a FOSS remake of the stock calendar with nice extras14:37
Vajbi see. It does not seem to be in repo's.14:40
siceloprobably in devel repo then14:41
sicelohas recurring events for example14:41
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pkill9where can i browse devel repo?14:59
KotCzarnywhat devel repo/15:00
pkill9does anyone develop applications for maemo?15:00
KotCzarnyyes, you use scratchbox for that15:00
infoboti heard scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at, hosted by maemo now. Also at
pkill9thanks, is Qt5 on maemo?15:01
KotCzarnybest way would be using google and forum15:01
KotCzarnyplenty of useful information15:02
pkill9it's difficult to know if what i'm looking at is out of date15:02
KotCzarnytmo is not out of date15:02
pkill9like, does this show the latest packages people have posted
pkill9oh talk.maemo.org15:03
KotCzarnyas for the link, yes15:03
pkill9is it possible to install qt5 on maemo?15:03
KotCzarnyit seems you are new, so quick hint: extras* is user submitted repo15:03
KotCzarnyextras-testing is meant for testers (dysfunctional now), and extras-devel is wild west15:04
siceloqt5 - no.15:04
KotCzarnyie. untested packages live here which might result in need of reflash15:04
pkill9why is it not possible to install qt5 on maemo?15:06
KotCzarnywho said that? i;ve just said i dont know the status15:07
pkill9sicelo said no15:07
KotCzarnymissed that15:08
siceloi believe it has been tried .. but there are huge differences15:09
siceloso it turned out impractical15:10
sicelowhat you want qt5 form15:11
sicelo(i'm talking about Maemo by the way, not alternative OSes)15:12
pkill9qutebrowser with webkit15:12
pkill9i tested it on archlinux arm on n900, it's somewhat laggy but pretty nice to have full javascript support15:12
pkill9and qutebrowser is a great browser15:13
siceloeven qt4 is very imperfectly supported on N900, afaik15:13
CatButtsthen we can run drawpile server on the n900!15:14
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sicelo /cleanup19:08
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CatButtsI'm lazy and won't write code20:08
CatButtssomeone roll me over the keyboard20:08
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atkWhat's the abi used on Maemo 5?20:53
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DocScrutinizer05sounds familiar21:51
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