IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2017-08-23

sunshavi /join #armbian00:27
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Vajbokay it seems that maemo default mailclient "add to contacts" works on some emails, but shows black boxes most of the time. It must be something on the email which breaks it.05:18
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brolin_empeyI wonder why my Nokia BL-5J/BL-4J batteries seem to be OK after being unused for years but my Samsung and Geeksphone batteries are bulging after less than 4 years.05:40
Vajbmaybe build quality. (pure guess)05:41
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brolin_empeyI am actually using my N900 again after having replaced it twice since 2014.  I am using it only temporarily until I receive new batteries for my Galaxy Note 3.  I forgot how bad the N900 (Maemo 5) user experience is.  Now I remember why I obsoleted my N900 in 2014.05:57
stryngsViva n90005:58
brolin_empeyWhy does the OS not automatically set the clock from the cellular network?  Even a wired telephone can set its clock from the network.06:00
stryngsbrolin_empey: Wasn't engineered that way =)06:01
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Vajbbrolin_empey: mine does. Maybe you don't have that enabled?06:13
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brolin_empeyVajb: I do not remember.  The problem is solved for now because I manually set the clock on the Welcome/Setup screen after booting.06:17
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DocScrutinizer05brolin_empey: well, each time I ponder to fix the notification sounds of my android phone with a sledge hammer, I realize why I never wanted to get such a crap06:46
DocScrutinizer05OF COURSE I want to hear a 90dB fanfare at 3am in the night when the shit thing completed download of whatever update06:47
DocScrutinizer05when you try to find out which sound this might be and how to disable it, THAT is a pretty good example of abysmal user experience06:49
DocScrutinizer05and just for a sidenote: N900 does set clock from cellular06:50
DocScrutinizer05just not in time for the date&time picker that shows up after removing main battery on a N900 with broken bupbat, since the modem takes too long to scan the channels and log in, and network then sending an actual time telegram06:52
DocScrutinizer05that's a problem of your carrier's network config, not of N90006:53
DocScrutinizer05yeah, of course you also need to *enable* the automatic time setting06:55
brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: I always use the silent profile on any phone because I try to avoid being a cellout.  Yes, cellout, not sellout.06:57
DocScrutinizer05even my granma can use an adroid phone and pretend what she gets from it was exactly what she wanted. I however can't, I want control over my phone, not forcefed fastfood designed by google with no option to have other relish or even just a bit more salt06:58
DocScrutinizer05don't get me started about "this android fart-app needs access to: location service, phone, messaging, contacts, media"07:00
stryngsDocScrutinizer05: When is the Neo going to be born?07:02
stryngsI want one =)07:02
stryngsWorth every penny to me.07:02
DocScrutinizer05stryngs: we're working on it. NFC circuit already layout done07:03
DocScrutinizer05metacollin is great07:04
stryngsIf I was a richer man, I'd donate to the cause, but mark my words.  The day the thing is on the market, I'll be first in line. (Impulsivity to blame)07:04
* stryngs carries an n900 at all times.07:04
DocScrutinizer05it's a pity so mayn prospects don't know about the fact Neo900 gets built to order, there won't be any shelf stock on sale07:07
stryngsThis I didn't know.07:07
stryngsneither does the site state it clearly =)  (Or, I didn't read, tl;dr and such...)07:08
brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: I am not trying to sell you on the Android OS over Maemo.  Use what works best for you.  The fact is that I have a bad user experience with my Maemo 5 installation on my Nokia N900 and that I have a far better user experience with CyanogenMod 11 on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 with the exceptions that trying to use a touch screen to edit text is often an exercise in frustration, that my battery began bulging after over 2 years of use, and that07:08
brolin_empeythe computer reboots if it is in my pants pocket when I kneel or squat or sit in a certain way.07:08
DocScrutinizer05maybe we really lack to state that clearly07:08
stryngsbrolin_empey: The n900 is a unique experience.  If you want something you truly have control over, the n900 is where it's at afaik and understand.07:09
stryngsYou can do things with the n900 that you cannot do with any other piece of hw.07:09
stryngsPeriod, point blank.07:09
stryngsImho, the n900 sucks as a phone.  Just my experience based on a new piece of gear (android/iphone) user experience wise.07:10
DocScrutinizer05yes, in short: I can't get ssh server on my android phone since that needs rooting and rooting isn't possible on that thing07:10
stryngsHowever, from a hacker perspective, NOTHING, nothing comes remotely close.07:10
stryngsI'll take my n900 and whip any other phones ass from a pentest perspective.07:11
stryngsWith the Neo, I'm pretty sure that you can do things you can't do with other phones, regarding spy tools and such.  i.e.  turn on the mic without your permission because of some baseband stuff.07:11
stryngsi.e.  When I go to airplane mode, I'm really in airplane mode, versus thinking im in airplane mode, etc..07:12
DocScrutinizer05I think particularly as a phone the N900 works surprisingly well, what's not on par is browsing and navigation and the whole other bunch of "free apps" from google07:12
stryngsAs a phone, it works damn well +)07:12
DocScrutinizer05though there's saera07:12
stryngsJust the UI sucks.  But the n900 was never meant to be an iphone killer.07:12
* stryngs didn't buy his n900 for the UI.07:12
stryngsIt's a raspberry pi in my pocket with a builtin screen.07:13
stryngsIt just happens to make phonecalls.07:13
stryngsViva la n900.  May you reign forever07:13
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if any droid app allows full backup of device to gome server (!NOT! google cloud) via wlan, unattended and by cronjob07:15
DocScrutinizer05home* server07:15
DocScrutinizer05prolly not since that would need root, sshd on device, and user knowledge about ssh-keys07:16
brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: I replaced the stock OS provided by Samsung with CyanogenMod because I want superuser access to the OS installation, which I could not have with the stock OS because Samsung actively tries to restrict the users of non-Nexus/Pixel models of computers running the Android OS.  You should use a Nexus/Pixel model of computer if you want an Android OS computer intended for advanced users/hackers/developers.07:17
DocScrutinizer05brolin_empey: a truly good advice. Alas I was silly stupid and bought a device by specs/features: CAT6 with FLIR07:20
DocScrutinizer05cat50, sorry07:21
DocScrutinizer05arghh 6007:21
brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: If you install a recovery program such as Team Win Recovery Project (TWRP), which is what I used to replace the stock OS with CyanogenMod, you can save a complete backup of the flash memory fixed on the motherboard to an SD card or USB Mass Storage device.  You boot the recovery program instead of the Android OS.  The N900 has something similar that I installed years ago (backup menu?).07:26
DocScrutinizer05needs CM or other rooting07:27
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brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: No it does not.  You do not need superuser access to the OS to install a recovery program, at least not on the SM-N900W8 (variant of the Samsung Galaxy Note 3 for Canada).07:29
DocScrutinizer05 >>Is the CAT S60 (Snapdragon 617) Rootable?<< A: no07:29
DocScrutinizer05zhough hey, seems some news since last time I checked (about 4 months ago)07:32
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Oksanabrolin_empey : OS does automatically set the clock from the cellular network. Check Settings -> Date&Time. And I use Silent often, too - mostly because of "incoming message beep when listening to music player, despite message-beep switched off in Settings". I have already replacing boot-video with a no-audio file.09:50
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brolin_empeyOksana: “Update automatically” was disabled, do not know why.  I enabled it.11:13
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sixwheeledbeastPeople look at me weird when I say my 8 year old phone could do features they pay or use cloud services for. The difference is your paying for all the defined pretty packaging up.12:25
sixwheeledbeastAlso OMP has option to Prevent playback interuptions.12:26
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bencohsixwheeledbeast: are you referring to "gapless" playback?13:08
sixwheeledbeastno message interuptions13:09
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KotCzarnyhrm, nokia n9 screen unlock is weird, cant trigger it14:28
KotCzarnyand there is no 'show desktop' icon14:30
KotCzarnywhoever designed the ui, made it not intuitive :/14:30
bencohit's thought to be highly intuitive though14:36
bencohhint: gestures14:36
KotCzarnynot intuitive for a new user14:36
KotCzarnyand no 'welcome, quick hints' screen14:37
KotCzarnyso once the screen gets locked by idle, i can only tap and swipe till it unlocks14:37
KotCzarnystill not found what is the required magic wave ;)14:37
KotCzarnyumkay, got it14:38
MaxdamantusI think it's basically the same sort of gesture as is used for doing other things.14:38
KotCzarnyi hae to grab the edge14:38
KotCzarnynot intuitive14:38
Maxdamantusswitching between views, closing applications.14:38
MaxdamantusYou always swipe from the edge.14:38
KotCzarnyi'm used to just being able to grab anywhere on the screen (maemo, android)14:38
KotCzarnybtw. how to close apps?14:38
Maxdamantusswipe down iirc14:39
Maxdamantus(from the edge)14:39
Maxdamantusor maybe it's up, dunno.14:39
Maxdamantuscan instead keep swiping sideways until you find the view that shows all applicatis14:40
KotCzarnyok, how to close app?14:40
KotCzarnynot just switch to another14:40
MaxdamantusYeah, that's what I meant. It's either swiping up or down.14:40
MaxdamantusSwitching to other views is swiping sideways.14:40
KotCzarnyright. worked now14:41
KotCzarnystill, having a classic 'x' wouldnt hurt14:41
KotCzarnyscreen is not slick enough for comfortable swiped14:41
MaxdamantusYou can get that in the view that shows all running applications (keep swiping sideways until you see it)14:41
KotCzarnyand i miss the desktop14:42
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sicelowelcome to N9 KotCzarny :-)15:01
siceloi was looking at maebble the other day and noticed the dev made oscp-specific options available in it15:10
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sicelo  i am looking for a link to the latest thumb version of fennec15:45
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KotCzarnysicelo: humm? what is maebble?15:56
KotCzarnyas for n9, just charged it and getting first looks15:58
KotCzarnylove the osk and screen accuracy15:59
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sicelomaebble is an application for the pebble smartwatch16:06
sicelos/an/an N900/16:07
infobotsicelo meant: maebble is an N900 application for the pebble smartwatch16:07
KotCzarnydone by proprog, i think he liked oscp quite early, probably that's why added support for it (and probably because trivial to create a remote client)16:07
KotCzarnythanks for the tip16:07
sicelodid you support Harmattan before?16:09
KotCzarnylooked at it, but it's quite different from normal linux ecosystem16:09
sicelomaybe now you have an N9 you can support it16:10
KotCzarnywill look, no promises though16:10
KotCzarnyi have tried using sailfish sdk before, not very successfully16:10
sunshaviKotCzarny: I have an N9 almost vanilla. GPS works better there than on n900. Aegis is a problem (You could not play other formats with the default media player). Camera is very nice. multitask view better on n9. Closing apps easier on n9. The fm radio app is very nice. Are You going to port oscp there?. I have not try  compiling anything there yet.16:11
KotCzarnysunshavi: if i get around, will look at it16:11
KotCzarnysunshavi: but since i have some other project going at the moment can't say when16:12
sunshavikotczarny: there is a link for removing aegis.16:12
KotCzarnysunshavi: if i want to have oscp ported, i should use vanilla device16:13
sunshavikotczarny: sure. I did not like integrated battery on n9. Just try not to use it alot, just a a camera.16:13
KotCzarnyyeah, it arrived with battery empty16:14
KotCzarnyi hope it didnt damage it too much16:14
sunshavikotczarny: n900 camera is very bad. In 2017 is one of the things bother me more. Taking a picture is not an easy task16:15
sicelothere's a health meter in Settings16:15
KotCzarnysunshavi, never noticed, just open the shutter and click, cant get easier16:15
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KotCzarnysicelo: it will only update after few cycles i guess16:16
sunshavikotczarny: battery also came empty here almost 4 years ago. I did not like microsim also16:16
KotCzarnyas for image quality, from the few pics i took today it's not much better than n90016:17
mike727Whenever I've flashed N9, it comes up with a UI tutorial16:17
sunshaviwell taking a pic takes several seconds. segfaults from time to time. picture quality also not good, especially when taking near objects16:17
KotCzarnynever had a camera die on my n90016:18
sicelosunshavi: segafaults? N900? weird.16:18
KotCzarnymike727: didnt flash it yet, probably previous person just did factory reset16:18
sunshavisicelo: sorry segfaults camera app on n900 (my fault)16:18
siceloyes i meant the camera app .. that's weird.16:18
KotCzarnyi would bet on some software installed to be the cause16:19
sunshavisicelo: not talking about taking a second pic.16:19
mike727Harmattan 1.3 will close apps when swiping top->down. On open applications view, touch & hold will make X (close) appear16:19
KotCzarnywill flash to 1.3 probably16:20
KotCzarnystill on 1.216:20
mike727DON'T ever flash using 00316:21
KotCzarny003 ?16:21
siceloof course N9 doesn't match N9 hardware-wise16:21
mike727Chinese firmware, will take CMT hostage16:21
mike727Won't allow you to flash anything different on it16:22
mike727I think someone managed a workaround, but the method was dodgey16:24
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sicelore-fennec: it's in repos. i should have checked there first16:28
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bencohsicelo: apart for amoled and cpu/ram16:32
sicelo& cam16:33
sicelobut yes, i'd buy another N900 instead of an N9 :)16:34
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sicelowhat's the 'problem' with SFOS?17:09
KotCzarnyif you ask me? i wasnt able to get through initial steps of sdk install17:10
KotCzarnyand the os itself seems to rely heavily on qt and system libs, and restricting user from doing things17:10
siceloworse than fremantle sdk? (genuine question .. never played with anything SFOS)17:17
KotCzarnydont know, wasnt able to get-in17:18
KotCzarnywill retry in the nearest months17:18
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sicelohow is browsing experience on N9 nowadays?17:38
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brolin_empeyOksana: EtherCalc seems to be only for spreadsheets, not textual documents.  I want to create a textual document that contains an embedded spreadsheet (a smart table) instead of a plain table (a dumb table).  Both Google Docs and the Web version of Microsoft Word (“WebWord”) allow to have a plain table in a textual document but a plain table is dumb because it cannot even sum numbers in cells, which is something that all spreadsheet programs can do.19:06
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brolin_empeyOffice suites such as LibreOffice and Microsoft Office for desktop operating systems can do what I want but I have not yet found a real-time collaborative Web-based document preparation system (“word processor”) that has this ability.  More generally, I have not found any Web-based document preparation system that has this ability.19:12
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siceloOffice 365 can't? what about LibreOffice's cloud offering? (never tried it myself, but i know they have something of that sort since a while ago)19:23
xy2_brolin_empey: piratepad?19:27
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brolin_empeyTrying to use a general Web search engine to find information about Word Online, currently the official name of the Web version of Microsoft Word, returns lots of noise about Microsoft Word for Windows (WinWord), probably similar to trying to find information about Microsoft Word for DOS.20:27
brolin_empeysicelo: I do not have a paid subscription to Microsoft software but the Word Online that I can use with OneDrive without a paid subscription appears to lack the ability to insert a spreadsheet.  I do not know what Word Online does if a compound document containing an embedded spreadsheet is imported.  I do not have Microsoft Office installed on my own computers but I have access to computers with Microsoft Office installed.20:33
brolin_empeyWell, I installed the Microsoft Office applications for the Android OS on my handheld computer but I do not use them and I was talking about Microsoft Office for desktop platforms.20:36
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brolin_empeysicelo: I did not know there is a Web version of LibreOffice.  Link?20:37
brolin_empeyxy2_: I do not know about piratepad, will have to research it.20:38
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brolin_empeyxy2_: I do not see anything that suggests that piratepad can embed a spreadsheet.20:47
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WikiwideDoes mp-fremantle-community-pr depend on as-daemon-0 ? Because it seems that I accidentally uninstalled as-daemon while trying to free up rootfs, and no red flags were raised. And then I was wondering why ActiveSync stopped working...23:18
KotCzarnymy rootfs has 65M free23:20
WikiwideSimilar, now. Used to have less than that free. Like, 97% full.23:21
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WikiwideBrr... Instructions say 993, wizard says 443 by default, wizard doesn't go further with 993, sync works with 443.23:27
KotCzarnysiftware changes23:27
siceloAS is nearly always 44323:27
sicelobrolin_empey: i am not sure of link now .. and being on N900 isn't helping. but, there should be reference in LibreOffice website23:28
sicelounless i read fake news :-/23:29
WikiwideBrr... I might be reading  in the wrong place. IMAP...23:29
siceloyeah :-)23:29
WikiwideAnyway, I ask ActiveSync to sync calendar and contacts, and leave email part to IMAP, because of this as-removal-confusion.23:30
siceloAS uses 443 because it runs of Microsoft IIS .. webserver23:31
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brolin_empeysicelo: OK, I will check later, am at work now.  Were you reading news on April 1? ;-)23:36
WikiwideAnd don't forget as-config-applet23:38
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