IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2017-07-24

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Wizzupfreemangordon: oh yeah, I also ordered a few droid4 phones as alt. target00:29
Wizzupfreemangordon: modem is ofono supported, sre and others did a lot of the linux mainline work00:29
Wizzupit's dual core omap and 1gb ram00:29
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Juestosorry for the noise03:19
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DocScrutinizer05in offline mode modem is supposed to NOT operate, aka "antenna off"03:46
DocScrutinizer05it might (or might not) be possible that modem still scans for visible BTS, but for sure it's not supposed to transmit anything, since that's the whole purpose of offline aka airplane mode03:48
DocScrutinizer05at+cfun=0 is not meant to keep list of visible BTS afaik03:49
DocScrutinizer05and I even doubt a 911-call is possible in +cfun=0, which would be the only plausible reason to keep a list of visible BTS. Also 911 calls are the same whether with or without SIM, so that wouldn't apply either03:52
DocScrutinizer05it's possible your *SIM* is running any cruft and thus consuming energy03:53
DocScrutinizer05you know your SIM is a complete 'computer' basically03:54
DocScrutinizer05with storage, RAM, CPU and all03:54
DocScrutinizer05for timing differences in GPS with and without SIM, see03:56
infobotRRLP is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or
infobotu-tdoa is, like,
DocScrutinizer05RRLP is basically the service layer A-GPS, while SUPL is the user layer A-GPS03:58
DocScrutinizer05buZz: ^^^03:59
DocScrutinizer05also see
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DocScrutinizer05unlike wikipedia ^^^ suggests, U-TDOA is also used in context of RRLP and E9-1-104:07
DocScrutinizer05a not too technical article (as old as of 2005 it seems) about control plane (incorrectly called "service plane"04:15
DocScrutinizer05...service layer" by me) vs user plane
DocScrutinizer05alas the excellent article linked in is "404"04:17
DocScrutinizer05but for practical purposes you can assume SUPL ~= RRLP, modulo different planes they work on, from a user perspective04:18
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DocScrutinizer05just obviously you need a registration to a RRLP-provider for RRLP, which in turn needs an enabled SIM. And you need cellular TX for RRLP which is not supposed to be possible in offline mode. For SUPL on the other hand you need internet connectivity which is available in tablet-mode but not in offline mode either.  Then on top there's the performance difference between SUPL and RRLP, the latter being magnitudes better thanks to U-TDOA if04:21
DocScrutinizer05the provider is using that04:21
DocScrutinizer05U-TDOA based RRLP "SUPL" could (and does) actually outperform GPS both in precision and speed04:22
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DocScrutinizer05on thing's for sure: unless there's a blatant implementation error in device, airplane mode must never transmit any RF and thus no U-TDOA based (or other) location of mobile equipment by provider in airplane mode04:25
DocScrutinizer05exception to that might be user initiating a 911 call which might implicitly end any airplane mode, though ususally you get an additional warning requester about the fact, asking you if you really want to leave airplane mode04:27
DocScrutinizer05  >>Today, in the United States, Sprint and Verizon use a form of GPS known as Assisted GPS while AT&T Mobility and T-Mobile use U-TDOA for their E9-1-1 solutions.<<04:30
DocScrutinizer05also refer to - up to the particular implementation of airplane mode if they use +cfun=0 or maybe +cfun=204:33
DocScrutinizer05or 404:34
DocScrutinizer05If I wasn't lazy to reboot device after that, I'd test setting the M900 to airplane mode, then on cli start pnatd and give a "AT+CFUN)"04:35
DocScrutinizer05If I wasn't lazy to reboot device after that, I'd test setting the N900 to airplane mode, then on cli start pnatd and give a "AT+CFUN?"04:36
DocScrutinizer05useful article:
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xesfreemangordon: tomorrow I'll be back to "usual" boring life after a few days without keyboards....of course, except N900 ;) I hope to have some free time to move a few resources and prepare the VM08:39
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freemangordonxes: ok. It would be good to have something ready when it is needed, to not lose momentum. And trust from the devuan guys.08:45
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DocScrutinizer05I guess creating a (sub)domain will take longer than preparing a VM10:21
DocScrutinizer05I also wonder if we run short of IPs10:22 or
DocScrutinizer05I guess our sysops will prefer the former10:25
DocScrutinizer05I guess you might pimp the scratchbox VM. It must be totally static and pretty low load10:28
DocScrutinizer05and the DNS VM is maybe still totally idle and non-funct10:32
DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure it ever went active10:32
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DocScrutinizer05Last login: Wed Feb 27 03:07:55 2013 from p5493b2e2.dip.t-dialin.net11:02
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DocScrutinizer05warfare: ^^^  would we ever need dns1 VM?11:04
DocScrutinizer05xes_: ^^^11:08
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DocScrutinizer05~# lastb -a|grep -c 59.45.175 ;-->2497811:55
DocScrutinizer05chinese gvmt hackers11:56
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xesDocScrutinizer05: hum interesting... Let me check15:51
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DocScrutinizer05xes: iirc we created dns1 back when we hoped for hidden primary to Nokia's DNS15:59
DocScrutinizer05prolly nobody ever looked into it since15:59
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DocScrutinizer05but for a repo it would need way more storage, and I don't know where from to get that. Could it run from aux directly?16:00
DocScrutinizer05or what are the requirements for that VM?16:01
xesDocScrutinizer05: we have enough resources for a not too large VM (enough to fullfill freemangordon's req.) ...but then i hope we could buy some piece of hardware to expand a blade or activate another one16:03
DocScrutinizer05I vote for activating blade316:03
xes:) me too16:04
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DocScrutinizer05the CPU and drives must be dirt cheap meanwhile16:04
DocScrutinizer05not so sure about RAM16:05
xes..more or less.. Refurbished ram and cpu are very cheap. Drives not16:07
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buZzwoop, the batteries i ordered already shipped :D18:06
buZzthey claim it might arrive tomorrow already O_o , that would be weird18:06
Juestomaybe they are prepared18:08
Juestoi mean18:08
Juestomaybe they placed you in a free slot in a shipping order or something18:08
Juestoactually scratch that18:09
buZzits just germany -> netherlands18:09
buZzso might really be within a day, but doesnt seem likely :P18:09
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buZzi'll mostly be happy if batterylife is over 1 day in offlinemode18:27
sixwheeledbeast^Should be easy. I get a weekend out of mine with light usage18:27
sixwheeledbeast^that's a several (3?) year old polarcell18:28
buZzcool cool, i dont even want to use GSM but sometimes its useful18:28
buZzwithout simcard in n900, battery last about a week18:28
buZzsimcard inside, offline mode, barely a day18:28
buZzalthough everyone tries to ensure me that sim doesnt become active in offline mode, it seems it totally does18:29
sixwheeledbeast^battery is likely exhausted unless you have something eating in the background18:29
Juestotheres probably a way18:29
sixwheeledbeast^I don't believe it would but I couldn't say for certain18:30
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buZzah whichever, it'll be over soonish hopefully :)18:31
bencohI don't think it does, but I have no way to find out for now18:31
buZzi believe this is the culprit ;
sixwheeledbeast^I just disable cellular in terminal so I can have WLAN. If I don't want to take phone calls but need internet.18:33
buZzreason i think this ; getting GPS lock without sim inside takes 15-20 minutes, with sim inside and offline mode, about 118:33
buZzsixwheeledbeast^: yeah i still need to try if that has effect on gps lock speed18:33
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sixwheeledbeast^Are you comparing them like for like. If you have WLAN it can get A-GPS data via that.18:38
sixwheeledbeast^You could have had different variables while testing18:38
jameslwait, A-GPS works over wifi?18:40
sixwheeledbeast^I certainly don't get 1 minute GPS lock with data off.18:40
sixwheeledbeast^Well SUPL server18:40
bencohactually not, but yeah18:41
bencoh(I mean, you still need an entry in /etc/hosts)18:41
bencohI wonder if we could push a configuration file via cssu18:42
bencohsomething to update /etc/hosts, and/or dnsmasq configuration18:42
sixwheeledbeast^It's a bit hacky, you still need in the settings but some locations need a /etc/hosts hack for DNS reasons I recall?18:43
bencohjust some locations?18:44
sixwheeledbeast^:nod:18:44 is an alias for is an alias for has address
bencohthis is what I get for now18:44
sixwheeledbeast^doc had a link I'd have to find it now18:45
sixwheeledbeast^It would be nice to fix the issue properly not provide a hack via CSSU.18:46
infobotAll conversations are logged to Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.
sicelodoc's lin is/was
sicelofix what issue?18:47
sixwheeledbeast^Get it working without having to hack hosts18:49
sicelobut the problem isn't in maemo?18:50
sixwheeledbeast^not in this instance but I also don't believe we can use another SUPL either if we wanted to host one18:51
siceloi doon't see how we can get to resolve to a real IP any other way18:51
sicelowe can use another. i know the google one definitely worked before18:52
sixwheeledbeast^Resolves ok in USA for example18:52
siceloso yes, self-hosting could be a real possibility18:53
sixwheeledbeast^I don't believe we can use the google one, I can't remember why. Otherwise the fix could be to switch to
sixwheeledbeast^Not that I would want to let google handle my requests anyway :)18:56
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DocScrutinizer05buZz: please issue pnatd "at+cfun?" in "SIM, airplane" mode19:18
siceloyes google's doesnt work19:18
DocScrutinizer05no way this behavior you observe makes any sense, except when an "STK application" on SIM runs circles when modem is in offline mode19:19
DocScrutinizer05buZz: in airplane mode neither RRLP nor U-TDOA will work19:21
DocScrutinizer05please issue pnatd "at+cfun?" in "SIM, airplane" mode, to save us from further speculating19:22
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DocScrutinizer05issues with TTFF differing between offline+SIM vs no-SIM may also be related to first rough estimate for location based on your last network provider you connected to. without SIM that is not available. However it's _not_ related to any RF transmission19:24
DocScrutinizer05actually GPS even might enable GSM in +cfun=2 or whatever, to determine location from mere monitoring of visible networks, still with no RF TX. This also should work without SIM but might be broken since nobody in Nokia modem team ever tested it19:26
DocScrutinizer05AT+CFUN? will tell us a lot about all this19:27
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buZzi will as soon as i'm back where the n900 is laying on charger :)19:30
DocScrutinizer05((an "STK application" on SIM runs circles)) particularly prone to that: SIM of providers with a "homezone" concept. They actually calculate your location on the SIM MCU19:31
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: issuing a "AT+CFUN=0ยง should fix any such issues for good19:32
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: issuing a "AT+CFUN=0" should fix any such issues for good19:32
DocScrutinizer05it's supposed to completely shut down modem (and GPS) and thus SIM19:32
DocScrutinizer05obviously when you enable GPS, the middleware *will* re-enable moden via something like AT+CFUN=2 (or 4)19:33
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DocScrutinizer05otherwise the GPS in modem wouldn't be available at all19:34
DocScrutinizer05but then, GPS itself eats LOTS of power19:34
DocScrutinizer05you're not supposed to have it running all the time19:35
DocScrutinizer05I could see how interleaving offline GPS-on online GPS-off commands could confuse the middleware19:36
DocScrutinizer05possibly even a mere GPS-off doesn't exactly what it's supposed to do19:37
DocScrutinizer05then you should try to fix that confusion with a offline->online->offline cycle19:38
DocScrutinizer05or with pnatd AT+CFUN=019:38
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DocScrutinizer05rotfl, sth funny with pnatd, at+cfun=0 makes it disconnect (surprise surprise - it connects to a modem it just has shut down completely)19:43
DocScrutinizer05nfc what restarts modem when you restart pnatd19:44
DocScrutinizer05blame csd and whatnot19:45
DocScrutinizer05though... .oO(???)  AT interpreter should stay alive even with AT+CFUN=019:46
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DocScrutinizer05prolly some watchdog kicks in when modem loses all radio activity ;-) unexpectedly19:46
siceloterm frezes :)19:46
DocScrutinizer05yeah, first time I had to disconnet ssj via ~.19:47
DocScrutinizer05when you do locally, you need to close xterm or kill pnatd from another terminal19:47
DocScrutinizer05for unclear reasons pnatd has no known way to quit it19:48
DocScrutinizer05anyway I'm too lazy to switch my device to airplane mode the canonical way to check, right now19:49
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DocScrutinizer05just want to correct myself: AT+CFUN=0 might fail to work as expected, thanks to other stuff (watchdog) interfering19:50
DocScrutinizer05might or might not, no idea19:50
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DocScrutinizer05playing with pnatd CFUN is considered safe anyway, except from maximal a reboot needed to fix stuff. ATS0=1 however is not as easy to fix again19:54
DocScrutinizer05so don't do it unless you understand exactly what it does19:54
DocScrutinizer05you could even ruin your SIM card by indiscriminately issuing AT commands you don't understand19:55
DocScrutinizer05hint: POIN and PUK entry also is just a AT command. Don't touch those!19:56
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DocScrutinizer05HAH!!! "please enter PIN-code" on device screen. That actually might explain ERROR reply to at+cfun?20:15
DocScrutinizer05I think I know what happens: pnatd *is* the AT interpreter for ISI protocol to modem. pnatd is not prepared to handle CFUN states other than 1 (full). So after sending an ISI command to modem that's equivalent to +cfun=0 or +cfun=4, pnatd doesn't understand the answer from modem and so replies to +cfun? with "ERROR"20:21
APicDocScrutinizer05 > *20:23
DocScrutinizer05the modem however seems to act naturally, entering a CFUN state <>1 when you go airplane mode20:23
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DocScrutinizer05and again: *no* transmission whatsoever in airplane mode is the whole purpose of that mode, so I can't see how RRLP or U-TDOA is involved. At best (worst) modem still *receives* aka scans for all visible networks and *might* work differently on that when a SIM is inserted to tell the modem which network(s) is the preferred one that needs particular attention20:25
DocScrutinizer05so actually in airplane mode without SIM the modem might scan more bands and channels than with SIM inserted20:26
DocScrutinizer05I don't see how it could be more busy with SIM than without, in airplane mode20:27
DocScrutinizer05unless there's a STK app running on SIM20:28
DocScrutinizer05at+cfun=4 (disable phone both transmit and receive RF circuits) doesn't seem to make the SIM PIN code requester pop up20:34
DocScrutinizer05at+cfun=2/3 isn't supported according to at+cfun=?20:35
siceloN900 is a good/meek netizen, but I'd like for it to be more aggresive sometimes. gy 'good netizen' i mean - it is very happy to wait for network packets, etc. Droids don't do this. they demand attention ruthlessly. i'd like to (at least sometimes) have that on N900. any ideas?20:36
DocScrutinizer05re TTFF also please note that a second fix, same day, is always way faster than the initial one20:37
DocScrutinizer05sicelo: demand attention?20:38
DocScrutinizer05what else than wait could a device do when it actually waits for a network packet20:38
DocScrutinizer05you can adjust the duration it waits until the tcp/ip stack throws timeout error20:39
siceloi was wondering if iphbd couldn't be tweaked to controlthis somehow20:40
DocScrutinizer05I bet there's a /proc node for that, at least in powerkernel20:40
siceloi'll try them too20:40
DocScrutinizer05on my desktop PC I adjust that in "configuration" tool, so I don't know the right proc node off top of my head20:41
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DocScrutinizer05either /proc/net/whatever or even /dev/net/whatever, I guess20:42
sicelon900's network speeds are way slower than of any droid that i've seen .. even really 'weak' droids20:42
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siceloi've seen those nodes before. will adjust and see20:42
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# cat  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_syn_retries20:48
DocScrutinizer05I'm still not sure I understand what exactly you want to achieve20:49
DocScrutinizer05n900's perceived network speed depends on a friggin lot of factors, starting at WLAN chip and connection and probably ending at swap needed for rendering huge web pages in vrowser20:50
DocScrutinizer05first define the problem please, very specifically. Then we can look into what's the culprit and what might get done about it20:52
sicelomy problem is in cellular Internet. unacceptably slow, hangs. i know the ISP itself is bad, but droids somehow do way better. not high-end droids20:55
DocScrutinizer05sftp for example is quite slow on my N900 but I think that's due to en/decrypting overhead which is heavy on CPU20:55
DocScrutinizer05browsing is slow mainly due to a lack of available RAM20:56
siceloif i keep a running ping, it's a bit better20:56
DocScrutinizer05oooh that20:56
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DocScrutinizer05that's about AP and PSM20:56
DocScrutinizer05I think20:56
DocScrutinizer05or about swappyness in N900 kernel20:57
siceloDocScrutinizer05: gprs20:57
DocScrutinizer05gprs or umts?20:57
DocScrutinizer05aka 2G or 3G?20:58
DocScrutinizer05on 3G there's indeed a several-seconds long grace span in which the channel stays established (and even TX constantly running, thus causing UMTS eating more power than GPRS on slow pings)20:59
DocScrutinizer05at full rate however the situation trips: UMTS is way faster and thus finishes earlier and needs less battery21:00
DocScrutinizer05so for shell and irc etc you want GPRS/2G while for browsing and bulk downloads you want UMTS/3G21:01
DocScrutinizer05when you say a ping improves the situation, I conclude you're talking about 3G21:02
siceloeven in 2G it's suboptimal, but on 3G it's completely bad.21:03
DocScrutinizer05try a ping -f21:04
DocScrutinizer05-f like flood21:04
DocScrutinizer05if that improves stuff in 2G, it's likely a problem on provider side21:05
DocScrutinizer05particularly when you got some free RAM still21:05
DocScrutinizer05use htop to make sure your system isn't running busy21:06
DocScrutinizer05weird ipfilters/ipchains settings may cause issues21:07
* APic โ™ฅ DocScrutinizer05 21:07
DocScrutinizer05make sure you have no leftovers from an occasional experiment with "forwarding internet via USB" or whatever21:08
APic(Not in a homosexual Way, just in a gayprideness-Way!  ๐Ÿ˜‰)21:08
infobotAPic meant: (Not in a homosexual Way, just in a happyprideness-Way!  ๐Ÿ˜‰)21:08
KotCzarnyapic: isn't it the same?21:08
APicKotCzarny: True.21:08
APicKotCzarny: But i would never insert my Penis into DocScrutinizer05 Arse. That Stuff i refer to.   โ˜บ21:08
* APic just thinks You Gals/Guys here are nice!21:08
KotCzarnyso, passive then? :P21:09
APicIn a helpful Way.21:09
APicNo, not that Way around either. sorry.   ๐Ÿ˜‰21:09
APicHow would my Arse fit into DocScrutinizer05's Penis anyhow?     ๐Ÿ˜‰21:09
APicYou got it!21:09
DocScrutinizer05no sex, I'm british err an old fart21:09
DocScrutinizer05a pretty much OT post that nevertheless I like reading :-)
DocScrutinizer05sentimental journey ;-D21:21
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kalinHi all23:55
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kalinI was have many issues with my n900 and i flashed it with PR1.323:57
sixwheeledbeast^what sort of issues?23:58
kalinFinaly i have installed pyOBD on my phone23:58
kalini was unable to install anything23:58
kalinbut now when try to start pyOBD it crashed23:59
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