IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2017-07-13

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buZzwhat do i need to mod on a usb powerbank to make it charge my n900? just short d-/d+ ? or does it need a resistor02:34
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hurrianbuZz: shorting data lines would be sufficient, yeah03:43
hurrianIIRC the USB charger spec says a short up to 200 ohm, so yeah, a 0 ohm solder bridge would do just fine03:44
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DocScrutinizer05enyc: what's the problem with porting maemo to Neo900? technically maemo doesn't even need any porting for Neo900, it's the same platform07:02
DocScrutinizer05even the PVR should be backward compatible to the slightly lower version number in OMAP343007:03
DocScrutinizer05the ONALY thing that gives me worries is NOLO07:04
DocScrutinizer05even BME is no issue, we simply don't need it in Neo90007:05
DocScrutinizer05what actually changes in hw is the modem (new one being a really open protocol, inlike the friggin ISI on BB5 modem) incl audio via standard PCM instead ISI, and the WLAN/BT module, though that's close enough to what's in N900 to not really introduce major problems, just new firmware needed I'd think07:08
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hurrianDocScrutinizer05: N900's NOLO is used in Neo900?07:37
DocScrutinizer05err, I don't think so, see above07:38
hurrianmmm yeah, hardware init's gonna be ever so slightly different. guessing it'll be u-boot SPL?07:38
DocScrutinizer05somebody will have to patch uBoot to fully replace all necessary NOLO functions07:38
hurrianbut the reference TI x-loader should be enough to boot u-boot right?07:41
DocScrutinizer05not only should, MUST08:06
DocScrutinizer05and is proven to work08:07
DocScrutinizer05what's not proven is particularly maemo coming up without NOLO doing some arcane init for it08:07
DocScrutinizer05though nobody found out so far what exactly08:08
DocScrutinizer05not like a lot of tests and investigating had been done at all08:08
DocScrutinizer05Pali once tried to boot maemo with xloder->uBoot->linux iirc, and reported problems08:09
DocScrutinizer05s/linux/maemo fremantle/08:09
DocScrutinizer05quite possibly could have been one of the watchdogs, or the modem at large08:11
DocScrutinizer05or, don't know, GP xloader instead of HS-xloader08:12
DocScrutinizer05Neo900 anyway is a GP device, while N900 is a HS device in GP mode08:14
DocScrutinizer05so on Neo900 the GP xloader should work08:15
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: n900 is HS device in HS mode :)08:26
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DocScrutinizer05is it?08:32
DocScrutinizer05well, seems the xloader already drops the ball, no?08:32
DocScrutinizer05I'm not 100% clear if there's a true GP mode on HS devices08:35
DocScrutinizer05I'm also not sure about GP devices checksumming the xloader or not, and if yes then with which cert08:36
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it is not about bootloader signatures only, there is more than that08:43
freemangordonfirewalls, etc08:43
DocScrutinizer05I know08:44
DocScrutinizer05but all that isn't available to GP devices08:44
freemangordonalso, HS devices have crypto module while GO does not afaik08:44
DocScrutinizer05and not available to HS devices in tainted mode - at least most of it08:44
freemangordontainted mode? you can;t boot unsigned bootloader so no way to taint it08:45
DocScrutinizer05I *rhink* this was a paradox, in that GP devices have the crypto hardware available to 'userland' while in HS devices it's hidden behind the firewalls in DOM0 aka whatever monitor08:46
DocScrutinizer05you can drop the DOM0 control08:46
DocScrutinizer05if N900 wasn't 'tainted' then you could do full control over all the firewalls and stuff08:47
DocScrutinizer05others call it 'sealed'08:47
DocScrutinizer05the idea of M-Shield / trustzone is to have the system split into a secure land and a userland. The processes running in secure land have full control over the complete hardware and the userland processes. Much like virtualization08:51
DocScrutinizer05when there's not a single process running in secure mode anymore, you basically dropped or tainted secure mode08:51
freemangordonah, I see what you meant08:52
DocScrutinizer05I don't know if any processes run in secure mode on N90008:52
DocScrutinizer05I don't think so08:52
freemangordonthere is afaik08:52
freemangordonthink about the modem PPA08:53
DocScrutinizer05what's PPA?08:53
freemangordonPrimary Protected Application08:53
DocScrutinizer05modem is a separate system pretty much unlinked from maemo system and OMAP343008:54
freemangordonthough PPA might not be the correct term here08:54
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: part of the modem FW runs on OMAP08:54
freemangordonat least it exposes supervisor functions08:55
freemangordonor "BIOS" functions08:55
DocScrutinizer05the OMAP? yes08:55
freemangordonand moded FW adds to that08:55
freemangordonit exposes additional functions08:55
DocScrutinizer05that's why I said I don't know if it runs any (waiting) secure processes08:55
freemangordonthat's why I said there are :)08:56
DocScrutinizer05I know you're calling that monitor08:56
freemangordonalso, on n900 omap there is a some memory chuck reserved for the modem FW08:57
DocScrutinizer05could mean there's a process warting for a hw trigger, like a mailbox (FIFO) event or a write to a special RAM addr08:57
freemangordonyep, exactly08:57
DocScrutinizer05if there was a memory chunk reserved for modem, we would need a blob in flash to store the firmware that's running in there08:58
freemangordonthere is08:58
DocScrutinizer05that's pretty much exactly what e.g jolla does08:58
* freemangordon tries to find it08:58
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DocScrutinizer05it has a few partitions to store the modem firmware08:59
DocScrutinizer05those are protected by checksum so user can't tamper with them09:00
DocScrutinizer05can't see any faintly similar thing in maemo storage09:00
freemangordonthe "cmt" stuff09:01
freemangordonpart of it runs on OMAP, afaik09:01
DocScrutinizer05those are drivers afaik09:01
DocScrutinizer05and they run as normal processes under linux09:02
freemangordonno, this is BB5 firmware and part of it is loaded as secure application on OMAP, don;t ask me how09:02
DocScrutinizer05but I do :-)09:02
freemangordonthere is PPA call called something like "load PA"09:03
DocScrutinizer05which file exactly?09:03
DocScrutinizer05those are FIASCO parts09:03
freemangordonand cmt-mcusw, but this is what runs on BB5 I guess09:03
DocScrutinizer05never seen them on OMAP maemo filesystem09:03
freemangordonyes, part of FIASKO09:03
freemangordonbut it doesn;t really matter09:04
freemangordonthose are stored in the modem09:04
DocScrutinizer05ooh it matters a whole friggin lot, this is exactly the backdoor into your system you don't want09:04
freemangordonanyway/ me got to run09:04
DocScrutinizer05but only if that code is running on OMAP not modem09:05
freemangordonthis is not like jolla and other MT socs09:05
freemangordonwell, AFAIK part of that code runs on OMAP09:05
freemangordonmight be wrong though09:05
freemangordonhowever, bye, gtg09:06
DocScrutinizer05I wouldn't know what it got to do there, since the modem itself is only attached via a SSI interface and a few GPIOs09:06
freemangordonBut I guess NOLO knows how to talk with it09:07
DocScrutinizer05and libisi is talking directly to HSI/SSI09:07
DocScrutinizer05so you could safely delete those blobs and get rid of the processes that are run from them, they don't contribute to the modem function after all09:08
DocScrutinizer05note that ISI once been 'publicly' specified09:09
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I am not 100% sure those run on OMAP, it could be the 2nd stage BL for the OMAP in BB% along with its PPA and OS09:09
DocScrutinizer05so you could talk to the SSI interface from any arbitrary system, without any userland/APE arcane processes09:10
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's most likely what it is09:10
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DocScrutinizer05in OMAP secure land only processes started from ROMBL, xloader, and possibly NOLO09:12
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DocScrutinizer05you *could* call a monitor function to load a new process from userland storage into secure land, but that would only fly if that code is crypto-protected09:13
DocScrutinizer05well, if there's already a supervisor process running in secure, then that process as well could load more stuff from userland storage, check the signature, decrypt, and start a process from it09:16
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DocScrutinizer05re modem and what it can do on system: aiui there's one of the watchdogs actually living on modem, pinging libisi I guess, and when it times out, it can reboot the APE OMAP via a GPIO09:26
DocScrutinizer05same works in other direction too, APE can instruct modem to reboot and I guess libisi or cmt-whatever (prolly must be a process in the end) has a warchdog pinging the modem and resetting it via a GPIO when timing out09:27
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vahe[m]hi all11:01
KotCzarnylibmatrix.h:96:18: error: glib.h: No such file or directory11:03
KotCzarnyyou miss a bunch of -dev packages11:03
KotCzarnyand build/lib programs too11:03
KotCzarnymake: pkg-config: Command not found11:03
vahe[m]aha yes11:03
vahe[m]KotCzarny do you think it's possible to fix?11:04
KotCzarnyif one knows what he is doing, maybe11:05
KotCzarnybut if they need recent libs, it will be hard11:05
vahe[m]what can you say about this?11:08
vahe[m]omemo for pidgin11:08
KotCzarnymissing lib, read the install instruction for that package11:09
vahe[m]ibpurple-dev, libmxml-dev, libxml2-dev, libsqlite3-dev, libgcrypt20-dev yes?11:11
KotCzarny seems that you didnt dl/unpack libsignal-protocol-c11:13
DocScrutinizer05the path looks weird to me11:14
DocScrutinizer05no clue here though11:14
DocScrutinizer05just wondering what's /lib/axc/lib11:15
DocScrutinizer05particularly for *building* stuff there11:19
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vahe[m]ok i try11:22
bencohare you trying to build on device?11:22
bencohanyway, iirc purple-matrix needs a newer glib/json than available on maemo5, so ....11:23
bencoh(not absoluetly certain about that but I think I checked back then)11:23
DocScrutinizer05when you'r actually building in a genuine maemo environment (on device, in emu) then you don't have and shall not have write access in /lib/ as user anyway, and that's absolutely fine. Packages shouldn't build in /lib/11:26
vahe[m]sorry friends I do not know much English11:27
vahe[m]so I have a library that would fix the problem? :)11:27
DocScrutinizer05do not use "cd /lib/..." for "make"11:27
DocScrutinizer05Nokia-N900:/home/user/MyDocs/lurch# make11:30
DocScrutinizer05cd ./lib/axc/lib/libsignal-protocol-c/ && \11:30
DocScrutinizer05   mkdir -p build && \11:31
DocScrutinizer05is ODD11:31
DocScrutinizer05that make job is nonsense in my book11:31
KotCzarnychange your glasses, that's relative dir11:31
DocScrutinizer05indeed missing my glasses11:31
DocScrutinizer05vahe[m]: nevermind, I was wrong11:32
vahe[m]I think it is interesting11:33
DocScrutinizer05there's hardly anything more nasty than a cd ./foo... since a cd foo would do as well11:33
vahe[m]why not updated pidgin? and how can I update ?11:34
vahe[m]it would be cool11:35
bencohupdating pidgin might be do-able actually11:36
vahe[m]I have now 2.10.1111:36
vahe[m]well, I'm waiting for that update in repo11:37
bencohbut that's completely unrelated to your matrix plugin11:37
vahe[m]I got another new N900 I have to use not less than 10 years)))11:38
vahe[m]bencoh Yes, you rightly said, but I stopped not know what to do11:38
vahe[m]+ omemo plugin11:38
vahe[m]may the problem is that I eat everything all at once :P11:39
bencoh1. you shouldn't build on device (n900)11:39
vahe[m]may the problem is that I want to do everything at once11:39
bencohbuild using scratchbox11:39
bencohyou'll only get troubles by building on device11:39
bencoheverything will just be more complicated11:39
bencoh2. you should probably learn more about building process11:40
bencohas for the glib/json version issue, trying to build it shows minor problems regarding glib11:41
bencohjson should be fine11:41
bencohand the minor glib issues seam relatively easy to fix/workaround11:41
vahe[m]aha thansk11:42
bencohthen you'll have to build/import http_parser11:42
vahe[m]bencoh building process?11:42
bencoh(http-parser should be pretty simple/standalone, unless it got bloated during the past years)11:43
bencohvahe[m]: how to build projects in general and which tools you need / how to troubleshoot issues11:43
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* DocScrutinizer05 could come up with just two valid usecases for ./ when addressing a binary in local dir that also exists in path: ./date, or when filename is borked: cd ./-badidea11:44
vahe[m]I don't like complicated ,so it's easier for me to refuse the setting of the matrix and Đ¾memo11:44
vahe[m]I thought maybe just need to add the lib11:45
KotCzarnydoc: or when include lib is built outside current program tree and prefix is dynamic11:45
bencohDocScrutinizer05: you forgot about paths splitted in several $VAR11:45
DocScrutinizer05err pwd11:47
vahe[m]bencoh libhttp_parser you say no for Maemo?11:49
vahe[m]sorry, I bad know English11:49
vahe[m]and probably did not understand that11:50
DocScrutinizer05he said it should be simple to build11:52
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vahe[m]thanks all11:53
DocScrutinizer05but use scratchbox! not on device11:54
DocScrutinizer05fsckng bot!11:54
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infobotmethinks scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at, hosted by maemo now. Also at
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vahe[m]I'm not familiar with scratchbox, but be sure to get acquainted now11:59
vahe[m]thanks again :)11:59
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DocScrutinizer05get the VM, most easy way to use sb11:59
DocScrutinizer05it's a VM image12:00
DocScrutinizer05virtualbox etc12:01
vahe[m]ah ok12:03
DocScrutinizer05installing scratchbox is a tad annoying and tedious otherwise12:03
enycDocScrutinizer05: hrrm why 10.04 outdated system ooi ???12:03
KotCzarnybecause maemo is old. 2010.12:04
enycthe txt along with that image suggests 10.04 lts12:04
enycno longer in pattches12:04
DocScrutinizer05so what? you're not supposed to browse the internet with this VM12:04
DocScrutinizer05it has all the tools you need and they fit together12:05
enycright, but what about compiler bugs, kernel,  things like update for stack-clash vulnerability, ....12:05
DocScrutinizer05when you're interested in keeping sb up to date, you rather install genuine12:06
KotCzarnyyou didnt get the 'maemo is old' part, did you?12:06
DocScrutinizer05good luck!12:06
KotCzarnyn900 runs with 2.6.28 kernel12:06
merlin1991enyc: actually maemo packages require such old autotools, it craps itself on some things on kernels > 2.6 ...12:08
merlin1991also libtool and autotools in sdk repo don't excalty play along which is why the scratchbox makes some vodoo, which in turn isn't available if you install a recent version of scratchbox...12:14
merlin1991it's a big everything too old clusterfuck12:14
merlin1991you notice ie. that argz.m4 is missing but used if you install the latest scratchbox natively12:14
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bencoh"'s a big everything too old clusterfuck" indeed :/12:21
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bencoh no fucking idea whether this is supposed to work, but ... feel free to try12:38
enyci see ;p12:44
enycKotCzarny: the 2.6.28 kernel being heavily-patched from original for drivers and allsorts?12:45
DocScrutinizer05it just has dirivers that are not, or were not, upstreamed back when. Most are now, though12:48
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enycSo, what's involved in producing a 2.6.32 -or- 3.2 or 3.16 or 4.9/newer kernel for N900 // old-maemo ??   would that be driver-interface-incompatible with older software?13:13
enycwas pointed out to me  2.6.32 maintaned by RHEL6 / centos 6.9  so could at least build a security-patched 2.6.32 kernel  in first-instance...13:13
enyc(if that would work with the drivers-for-2.6.28 ??)13:18
merlin1991enyc: even if it works that would mean you have a recent kernel, yay13:27
merlin1991now go and update *everyhing else*13:27
merlin1991actually people do have recent kernel with patches ontop to export interfaces for old maemo running13:28
merlin1991but as far as security goes that is like a single drop ontop a forestfire13:28
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enycmerlin1991: that figures13:29
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enycmerlin1991: what does this mean//say about usefulness of porting  maemo to newer hardware, neo900 or otherwise...?15:20
enycmerlin1991: vs. just making a newer debian//devuan//whatever linux work on open//semi-open HW gadget ?15:20
enyclinux / gnu / whatever desktop, i should say15:21
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bencohenyc: actually some are already trying to port/rebase (bits of) maemo on top of de{bi,vu}an15:39
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enycbencoh: ok that makes sense, where are repos, wikis, IRC channels,  testable versions, ???15:42
KotCzarnyin the git15:43
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KotCzarnyand you are on the channel15:43
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enycjoin #fptp15:45
enychrrm err there was a fptf at some poi too...15:45
* enyc looks confused15:45
enycKotCzarny: what git where? what wiki?  whats' workable//installable at the moment?15:46
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merlin1991enyc: you can check out
merlin1991it has lots of bits that are part of the core maemo experience there already17:55
merlin1991hm at least I think that is the right one17:57
merlin1991was that the gtk crapper utf code that breaks xchat on maemo? :D17:59
sicelohaha. no. some crap i had in my irssi18:01
freemangordonmerlin1991: enyc:
* merlin1991 hides18:02
freemangordongtk3 port is suspended for a while18:02
merlin1991is gtk2 still seeing upstream support?18:02
freemangordonafaik yes18:02
freemangordonsupport == bugfixes18:02
freemangordonafter all there are a couple of DEs still using it18:03
merlin1991what's that gnome fork that sticks with gtk2?18:03
freemangordonor was it xfce, not sure18:04
merlin1991looks like they are still doing stuff on gtk2.x18:04
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merlin1991what made you suspend the gtk3 efforts?18:04
freemangordontoo many pieces are missing18:05
freemangordonso I would have lost focus fighting with gtk instead of maemo as a whole18:05
sicelognome fork was mate iirc18:05
enycMATE, ported to gtk3 enitrely  in latest  Mint 18.2 release...18:14
enycbut MATE versions using gtk2 still about // in use18:14
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bencohnow that's strange ....
bencohthe "latest builds" preview on the right side is outdated19:24
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DocScrutinizer05not strange, that's called "midgard" ;-)21:03
DocScrutinizer05prolly one of the midgard "cronjobs" (some really weird thing) craped his pants21:04
DocScrutinizer05only a 2 or maybe 3 people on this planet would know where to look at to start trying to fix it. I'm not one of them21:06
DocScrutinizer05don't ask me to understand this:
DocScrutinizer05say this loud and fast, 5 times: >>Packages Package Packageevent<< !
DocScrutinizer05sorry, feeling this headache again. Already forgot about it the last few years as long as I didn't look at that shit anymore21:23
DocScrutinizer05>>Comments Comment<< >>Favourites Favourite<<21:24
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* DocScrutinizer05 sings "tag link - linktagtag, tag link linktagtag"21:25
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DocScrutinizer05Alt+F4 to the rescue21:28
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kalinHi guis22:27
kalini'm trying to install python 2.4 with synaptic on my n900, but synaptic still try to use old repos22:29
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kalinis the muarf mirror work?22:39
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kalinso why synaptic can't work with it?22:40
DocScrutinizer05but I doubt it has python2.422:40
DocScrutinizer05you should probably check:22:41
infobotpkg is probably
kalinits very important to me to get pyobd on my n90022:42
infobothmm... rtt is round trip time22:42
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DocScrutinizer05kalin: why python2.4?22:43
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kalinpyobd dependecies...22:44
kalinand pyserial22:45
kalinI need to run this app to finish my education22:46
DocScrutinizer05seems like python.2.4.4 (final bugfix release) was released in 2005 and since then python2.5 is recommended?22:47
DocScrutinizer05I doubt you could find python2.4 for maemo, when it shipped with python2.5 a 8 years ago22:48
kalinwhat you suppose to i do?22:49
DocScrutinizer05try running your progrom on python2.5, if there are compatibility issues, go and fix them in the program code22:49
kalineasy to say :D22:50
sicelopyobd on n900 runs just fine. what dependencies you don't meet?22:51
kalinpython 2.4 and pyserial22:51
DocScrutinizer05lol, even their website is already rotten and dust:  40422:51
sicelon900's pyobd uses python 2.522:52
DocScrutinizer05looks like a nice educational lesson to make a python2.4 program run on python2.522:53
kalinsicelo, how to show my terminal to see22:56
siceloscreenshot, or pipe to a text file or pipe directly to a pastebin22:56
DocScrutinizer05echo "this is your program that creates output"  | netcat 999922:58
DocScrutinizer05particularly:  ssh user@N900 echo "this is your program that creates output"  | netcat 999922:59
kalini have idea23:00
kalinwill use ssh from notebook to login in my n90023:01
infobotfrom memory, repos is "deb ./ ;; deb ./", or see, or see ~jrrepos23:05
sicelokalin: also check your repos against the abovve23:05
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DocScrutinizer05even in testing :-)23:20
DocScrutinizer05err maemo-extras23:20
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, jrrepos is
infobotham is, like, Hildon Application Manager.  Slow as molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does, or see ~speedyham23:21
kalin/home/user # apt-get install pyobd23:21
kalinReading package lists... Done23:21
kalinBuilding dependency tree23:21
kalinReading state information... Done23:21
kalinE: Couldn't find package pyobd23:21
kalin/home/user # apt-get install pyobd23:21
kalinE: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)23:21
kalinE: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?23:21
kalin/home/user # apt-get install pyobd23:21
kalinReading package lists... Done23:21
kalinBuilding dependency tree23:21
kalinReading state information... Done23:22
kalinYou might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:23:22
kalinThe following packages have unmet dependencies:23:22
kalin  pyobd: Depends: python-serial but it is not going to be installed23:22
kalin         Depends: python-wxgtk2.6 but it is not going to be installed23:22
kalin  sociality: Depends: libqjson0 but it is not going to be installed23:22
kalinE: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).23:22
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DocScrutinizer05please use pastebin!23:22
kalinok, sorry23:22
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer0523:22
DocScrutinizer05check in package interface ^^^ where the missing dependencies are from23:23
DocScrutinizer05prolly should fix your catalogs23:24
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DocScrutinizer05or did you forget to apt-get update?23:24
DocScrutinizer05actually why did you issze the same command three times? and more weird, why did you get different results on all three runs?23:26
kalinwhen i try apt-get update i gives me keyexpired23:26
DocScrutinizer05honestly you probbaly rather should use HAM23:27
DocScrutinizer05keyexpired is a warning23:27
DocScrutinizer05ignore it23:27
sicelo+1 re- HAM23:27
kalinhow to ignore this23:30
DocScrutinizer05look into a different direction ;-)23:30
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sicelokalin: first step is to ensure you have corect repos. infobot gave you links23:32
kalini did use microb install link23:33
DocScrutinizer05yes, and ideally use ~jrrepos23:33
sicelowhich ones you adfed?23:34
DocScrutinizer05then check "catalogs" in HAM, disable obsolete/defective ones23:34
DocScrutinizer05sicelo: btw congrats!23:34
kalinsicelo, both muarf and linenoise23:35
DocScrutinizer05no, please don't install both23:36
DocScrutinizer05it doesn't help, only slows down stuff23:36
DocScrutinizer05muarf is it23:36
sicelothanks DocScrutinizer05 :)) .. now the hard work begins23:36
kalinok, so now i must remove linenoise repo?23:38
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DocScrutinizer05or, use and disbale the tools and devel repos23:39
kalinDocScrutinizer05, only this one or with muarf?23:40
DocScrutinizer05both include muarf23:40
DocScrutinizer05recommended is a symlink to muarf.install23:40
DocScrutinizer05also read my comment on bottom of that webpage23:41
DocScrutinizer05why the F* I got the muarf installfiles twice, with %20 amd with space?23:44
kalinHAM is so slow...23:46
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: uri =  vs  uri =  ??23:48
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: I gather I can discard the urglier of both (mirrors.muarf)?23:49
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: which one is the recommended correct URL?23:50
DocScrutinizer05~tell kalin about speedyham23:55
bencohDocScrutinizer05: maemo.muarf.org23:59
DocScrutinizer05I have to admit leaves my totally clueless about what exactly this program *does*. >OBD-II (SAE-J1979) compliant scantool software< AAAHA hmmm23:59
bencohunfortunately google decided to index mirrors. first23:59

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