IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2017-04-01

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Enrico_MenottiHello. I am trying to install packages from, via command line. If I browse there, the page is responding and I can download packages, but if I use apt-get it stops at connecting to the website. On the application manager the repository seems to be configured correctly.12:01
KotCzarnyuse apt-cache policy yourpkg12:01
Enrico_MenottiWhat's that?12:02
KotCzarnywill give you info about pkg12:02
Enrico_MenottiOk, I got the info. It is available, and in fact I have been able to download it on my computer. I could install it manually. But why it is not possible via apt-get?12:03
Enrico_MenottiAh, well, maybe I understand. Let me try.12:04
Enrico_MenottiNo, I didn't get it. I am trying to install rsync. It should be apt-get install rsync, right?12:05
KotCzarnyyes, assuming its in repos and dependencies are available12:05
Enrico_MenottiFrom the web it seems it is there, in fact I downloaded it on my computer. I'll try installing the dependencies separately.12:06
KotCzarnyno, pastebin the error if you want some answer12:07
KotCzarnyand result of that policy command12:07
Enrico_MenottiOk. But no true error - just sticking there.12:08
KotCzarnydo you have anything weird in /etc/apt/conf.d ?12:19
KotCzarnywhat happens if you just wait?12:19
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Enrico_MenottiOk, meanwhile I got the error:
Enrico_MenottiThere is no /etc/apt/conf.d. There is a /etc/apt/apt.conf.d. Inside, three files: 00maemo, 01autoremove, 99-docpurge.12:25
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KotCzarnymaybe your connection went down12:25
KotCzarnyis it wifi or gsm?12:25
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Enrico_MenottiOk, I solved the thing by a workaround. But I don't understand what happens. Let me explain.12:54
Enrico_MenottiIf I try to apt-get from the terminal, by typing on the N900 keyboard, I am not able to tell apt-get to go on. When it asks if I want to continue, I have the Y option, but after entering an Y it aborts. Don't understand.12:55
Enrico_MenottiI tried to ssh via usb. This works, but kills the access to the Internet (the wifi is still working, it seems: my router still sees the device via wifi). Also the browser is not working. Maybe a conflict, but I don't understand.12:56
Enrico_MenottiI had to ssh through the wifi. This way I have been able to install rsync.12:56
Enrico_MenottiAnybody with an explanation?12:57
KotCzarnyyou didnt say you were using usb for connecting12:57
Enrico_MenottiYes, that's true. Sorry. I didn't expect that to be a problem.12:57
KotCzarnyif you have conflicting network setting it usually fails. anyway, connect through wifi and ignore usb (use it for emergency and dont worry)12:58
KotCzarnythis will keep things simple12:59
Enrico_MenottiOk, I was using usb to transfer files from the computer.12:59
Enrico_MenottiAnd why the N900 keyboard didn't work? Why it doesn't accept the Y?13:00
KotCzarnywhere is your Y ?13:00
KotCzarnywhat shows on terminal when you enter it?13:01
Enrico_MenottiIt shows correctly an Y.13:01
KotCzarnylowercase vs uppercase maybe then?13:01
Enrico_MenottiI tried both lowercase and uppercase.13:01
Siceloi genuinely doubt the problem is being explained to us correctly ... does the Y/y type correctly in other applications?13:12
Siceloand you are using apt-get in Maemo's XTerminal?13:13
DocScrutinizer05popup notifier?13:16
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Siceloi've not looked at the pastebins .. brought my Core2Duo pc to a grinding halt earlier this week .. won't try it on N900 :p13:18
DocScrutinizer05seen this so many times :-P "why the damn thing stalls on apt-get install??... <hours pass by> OH DAMN! It was showing a requester on device display! and I connected via ssh from my PC"13:18 is rogue13:18
DocScrutinizer05well  >>Failed to fetch  Could not connect to (, connection timed out<<13:20
DocScrutinizer05first generic advice: try again later13:21
Enrico_MenottiSicelo Yes I tried with apt-get in Maemo's XTerminal.13:21
Enrico_MenottiGot the problem in telling it the Y.13:22
Enrico_MenottiI tried via ssh on wifi and it worked.13:22
Enrico_MenottiIf I ssh via usb, after that I am unable to connect to the Internet. I solved by rebooting the N900.13:23
KotCzarnysicelo: try adding /raw/ after the domain, makes it lighter13:23
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DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: well, ssh via USB might mean you manually forced a quite 'unusual' network config13:25
KotCzarnyalso, if you use firefox, install noscript extension, much recommended, also from security point of view13:25
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: generally when plugging in USB you should be careful about state of device not 'normal' (unless it's a USB charger, not PC)13:27
DocScrutinizer05e.g. USB mASS stoRAGE mode umounts your MyDocs to export it to USB, so any apps that might use MyDocs (see ~optification) may stop to work, and trying to *install* such apps will cause massive havoc13:30
DocScrutinizer05not quite sure, but even HAM might use a temporary dir on MyDoc, so running HAM while mass storage mode would also be a pretty bad idea then13:31
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: as a general advice, when you have a WLAN access point, never use USB for anything other than charging and maybe an occasional access to mass storage for copying media files etc, during which you don't use the device for any activities13:32
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: I almost never connect IroN900 to my PC via USB, yet I'm logged in to the device via ssh and WLAN almiost 50% of the time, which is so much more convenient than typing on maemo xterm. And every night a backup cronjob rsyncs stuff to my PC automatically13:36
DocScrutinizer05IroN900 connects to WLAN as soon as I come home and I don't need to worry a single second about it. Often even the ssh session stays established when I wasn't out too long :-)13:38
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# uptime13:39
DocScrutinizer05 12:39    52 Tage 13:45 an,  0 Benutzer,  Durchschnittslast: 0,00, 0,00, 0,0013:39
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: if there are files opened in MyDocs, it is not exported via mass storage13:44
freemangordon"device storage in use" or somesuch13:45
DocScrutinizer05BUT, if there are none opened, then when it gets exported then stupid apps my create and open files in the mountpoint dir X-P13:45
freemangordoncamera-ui2 does it :D13:45
Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 I just issued ifup usb0 on the N900 (XTerminal), in PC suite mode. On the PC, set the host side of the connection to be Then ssh
DocScrutinizer05the old linux pun, use up all disk space in a file hidden under a mountpoint ;-P13:45
Enrico_MenottiAfter this, the N900 does not connect to the Internet anymore.13:46
Enrico_MenottiEven if unplugged. I had to reboot it.13:46
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: and what is your GW/DNS?13:46
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: irrelevant, for sure not
freemangordonyou can;t access internet if you don;t have gateway setup, and your device cannot resolve names without DNS13:47
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: you established a local network with just 2 participants and no way out of it into the internet13:47
KotCzarnybut he said he also had wifi running13:48
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, usbnetworking is, or
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KotCzarnyunless it was before/after, not during13:48
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: and unplugging doesn't revert an ifup13:48
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it is relevant, because if is set up as a GW, but PC is not set up to transfer packets between interfaces and to do NAT, no internet will be availabe on device13:48
freemangordonKotCzarny: doesn't matter wifi13:49
KotCzarnyfmg, usb networking mangles default gw?13:49
freemangordondepends on what he did13:49
KotCzarnyi mean default route13:49
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: with ifup usb no internet will be available unless further 'tricks' with routing and dnsmasq are done, I guess13:49
DocScrutinizer05see ^^^ ~usbnetworking13:50
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: may we have the output of "route -n" after you have usb interface up?13:50
Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Ok, a minute.13:50
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: please don't make Enrico_Menotti do ifup usb again ;-)13:51
DocScrutinizer05oh well, I guess he already did, so he's up for yet another reboot13:51
Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 I already did it. I had to transfer files from the computer to the N900. I think it finished now, so I can get the routes.13:51
Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 What's the problem with the reboot?13:52
freemangordonlast time I checked it was easy to delete a route in linux13:52
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: it sucks? :-D13:52
KotCzarnyit's a not wise thing in linux world13:52
DocScrutinizer05see my uptime above ;-)13:52
KotCzarnyyou fix things so reboot is not required13:52
freemangordonwell, it is not politically correct :p13:52
KotCzarnyalso sucks a lot of battery13:52
freemangordonabout 1.5%13:53
KotCzarnyand time13:53
Enrico_MenottiAh ok. Yes, I would fix things, I also have that idea. But I need to understand how! :)13:53
infobot[usbnetworking], or
DocScrutinizer05*strongly* recommended read13:53
KotCzarnyfirst: do you lose wifi when you connect via usb?13:53
freemangordonguys, lets wait for the route table, everything will become clear13:54
DocScrutinizer05and generally, try to steer clear of usb networking, use WLAN instead whenever possible13:54
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: for a start, did you try ifdown usb ?13:55
KotCzarnybtw. if you only move relatively small files (<1gigabite), just install tinysmb, and copy via wifi13:55
freemangordonKotCzarny: is that GB or Gb?13:57
KotCzarnyfmg: that's up for the reader and his patience with wifi speeds13:57
Siceloi've used USB networking with no ill effect lots of imes :-)13:58
DocScrutinizer05I use USB for data access rarely (I use my sftp://root@iron900/root bookmark instead and I never ever do USBnetworking13:58
freemangordonSicelo: :nod:13:58
KotCzarnyi've found tinysmb to perfectly suit me, so i won't have to find cable, abuse usb port etc13:59
Enrico_MenottiThis is the rounting table right now.13:59
KotCzarnyjust click on the desktop icon, enable smb, and be done13:59
KotCzarnynow, there's your problem13:59
freemangordon192.168.2.0   U     0      0        0 usb014:00
KotCzarnyyour computer advertisestises usb route, and not forwarding packets14:00
KotCzarnyit should just work after you do ifconfig usb0 down14:00
freemangordonthat one         UG    0      0        0 usb014:00
KotCzarnyto restore connectivity14:00
freemangordonno, he can just delete usb0 default GW14:00
KotCzarnyor: route del -net default dev usb014:00
KotCzarnyslow typing here :P14:01
KotCzarnyboth ways, no need for a reboot14:01
freemangordonthe question is who sets USB0 ad default GW14:01
KotCzarnymaybe it gets from windoze?14:01
freemangordonno way14:01
freemangordonthis is local setting14:01
KotCzarnylet's wait for enrico14:02
KotCzarnyhow exactly do you connect/enable usb network?14:02
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: what is the content of /etc/network/interfaces?14:02
freemangordonI suspect:14:03
freemangordoniface usb0 inet static14:03
freemangordonbecause this is what I have here14:03
KotCzarnybut who would do such dastardly thing?!14:03
DocScrutinizer05good luck with setting up network sharing on your PC14:03
DocScrutinizer05THIS **SUCKS** big time14:03
KotCzarnynetwork sharing on linux is 2-3 lines max14:03
freemangordonKotCzarny: this is the default setting for QtCreator/scratchbox devel connection14:04
DocScrutinizer05since your network manager will interfere anything you try14:04
freemangordonKotCzarny: on ubuntu it is 2 clicks away :)14:04
KotCzarnynetwork manager is evil abomination of systemd devels14:04
DocScrutinizer05on windows it might be actually simpler14:04
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: actually it is very complicated14:05
freemangordonyou need to play with netsh14:05
Enrico_MenottiOk. Thank you for all the feedback. But please let me understand.14:05
Enrico_MenottiSo first, I have a Debian distro running on the PC.14:05
Enrico_MenottiI connect the N900 via USB.14:05
KotCzarnyfirst: do you require internet working via usb?14:06
KotCzarnyor just files?14:06
freemangordon^^^ that one14:06
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Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Thanks for the links. I will read them.14:07
Enrico_MenottiFor now, let me just explain what I did.14:07
KotCzarnyif you prefer internet via vifi to stay alive, just comment out gateway line in /etc/network/interfaces (the one in usb0 contect)14:07
Sicelonot needed.14:08
DocScrutinizer05usb networking not needed ;-)14:08
DocScrutinizer05as long as you own a WLAN access point14:08
Siceloi meant .. no need to comment out anything.14:09
DocScrutinizer05it's really a PITA14:09
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: err, sorry, I missed some context14:09
Sicelousb networking does not interfere with wifi at all. if it seems to, that's user error, not N900 issue14:09
freemangordonSicelo: sure, but he will have to delete usb0 route every time he brings usb0 up14:09
freemangordonin order not to have default GW setup through usb0, he has to comment the "gateway" line in /etc/network/interfaces14:10
freemangordonas KotCzarny said14:10
Siceloah yes .. guess i'm also getting confused here lol14:10
DocScrutinizer05usb networking ois really deprecated14:10
DocScrutinizer05it's a PITA and so much more intricate than WiFi14:11
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it is absolutely ok, and the rules are exactly the same as for the other network interfaces14:11
freemangordonit is not some kind of a special net device14:11
DocScrutinizer05you forget to count in the mess on PC14:11
freemangordonthere is no mess, esp on linux14:11
Siceloactually the same thing happens when you want to use wifi & gprs simultaneously (yes some of us need that sometimes)14:12
freemangordonon windows it is tricky, but not THAT hard14:12
DocScrutinizer05well, when you're happy with turning your PC fronm a client into a router, then yes14:12
Enrico_MenottiOk, guys, sorry, please wait a minute... I will try to explain what I did... I'd like to understand...14:12
freemangordonthere is no ohter way, if we assume "router" is a device transferring packets from one interface to another14:12
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: ok14:13
DocScrutinizer05I'm out, I for sure don't want to deal with USB in any way, unless I have to14:13
Enrico_MenottiI issued, on the PC, ifconfig usb0 This seems necessary in order to establish ssh. I admit I don't understand why the host side of the usb connection has to be that particular address. Maybe it's due to /etc/network/interfaces.14:13
Enrico_MenottiThen I issued, on the N900, ifup usb0.14:14
Enrico_MenottiAt this point I'm able to ssh from the computer to the N900 by ssh
Enrico_MenottiAlso here, I don't understand why that particular address.14:14
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: there is no need for there address to be
DocScrutinizer05at that point you established a LAN cosisting of two nodes: and
Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Yes, ok, I understand this.14:15
DocScrutinizer05with no links of any kind to any other network14:15
freemangordonit will work with any address on network, besides, because it is the address of the device14:15
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: where did you get address from?14:16
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: seems is hardcoded14:16
freemangordonnot, it is not14:16
freemangordonint is in /etc/network/interfaces14:16
freemangordon*it is14:16
DocScrutinizer05that's what I'm talking about :-P14:16
freemangordonthis is not hardcoded14:16
Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Don't remember any more, sorry, it was a few weeks ago, it's one of the first thing I did with the N900.14:16
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: so, in short - you may assign whatever address you want to both the device and the PC14:17
DocScrutinizer05then softcoded X-P14:17
freemangordonthey MUST be in one and the same network, otherwise they won;t "see" each other14:17
DocScrutinizer05anyway if you want to change those addresses, you need to edit stuff14:17
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: TCP addresses starting with 192.168.x.x are in the so-called "C" class networks (just a detail) :)14:18
DocScrutinizer05and get a 100g Vodka if your PC LAN is
freemangordonrouters ususlly use 192.168.1.x14:19
freemangordonor 192.168.0.x14:19
Enrico_MenottiRight, it's subnet mask, right?14:19
DocScrutinizer05HAHA do you think anything in my network is _usual_14:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: please, let me explain to Enrico_Menotti what is going on :)14:19
Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Please. I'm listening.14:20
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: so, by setting both interfaces in one and the same network, you will have network connectivity, BUT only for addresses on that network14:20
freemangordonlook route -n output you apstebin ^^^14:20
freemangordon192.168.2.0   U     0      0        0 usb014:21
freemangordon^^^ means that for addresses starting with 192.168.2.X, the packets will be send through usb0 interface14:21
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: anything unclear so far?14:21
Enrico_MenottiAll clear, ok.14:22
freemangordonnow, what is "default gateway"...14:22
freemangordon"default gateway" is a network interface the packets are send to, when there is no match with the adresses of the interfaces14:23
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: I am continuing with the explanantion :)14:23
Enrico_MenottiSorry! :)14:24
freemangordonin your case you have 2 of them:14:24
freemangordon0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 usb014:24
freemangordon0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 wlan014:24
DocScrutinizer05Kernel IP routing table14:26
DocScrutinizer05Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface14:26
freemangordonthose four zeroes ( along with netmask of, mean that ANY address you try to connect (or rather send packet to) not belonging to networks 192.168.2.x or 192.168.0.x will be send through usb014:26
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DocScrutinizer05192.168.4.0     *        U     0      0        0 wlan014:26
DocScrutinizer05default         UG    0      0        0 wlan014:26
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: please, hold on a secod14:26
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: usb0 is chosen because it comes in the list BEFORE wlan014:26
freemangordonthus, all the packets (connections) you try to do are send via usb0.14:27
freemangordonBUT your PC is not setup to act as a router, so they are effectively dropped14:27
KotCzarnylong story short, self inflicted network breakage on enrico's part14:28
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: is it getting clearer now?14:28
KotCzarnyfixable by removing gateway from usb14:28
Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Yes, it is indeed.14:28
KotCzarnyor configuring pc to act as a router14:28
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: ok then, explain what you're trying to achieve14:28
Enrico_MenottiWell, first of all understanding. :)14:29
DocScrutinizer05that's always a noble goal14:29
freemangordonyou want to understand what?14:29
freemangordonask your question14:29
Enrico_MenottiOk, ok, you already explained lots of things I did not understand by myself.14:30
KotCzarnybuying linux for the beginners is recommended14:30
freemangordonKotCzarny: this is not linux, this is networking :)14:30
NotKitwhen trying to run Maemo UI on HiDPI screen like 1920x1080, would the best way would be to set lower resolution in X server and upscale it?14:30
KotCzarnyfmg, essential part of linux is networking ;)14:30
freemangordonNotKit: why not native? performance?14:30
Enrico_Menottifreemangordon I'd like to ask a couple of things.14:31
freemangordongo ahead14:31
freemangordondon;t ask to ask :)14:31
NotKitinterface don't seem to be adapted for this14:31
freemangordonah, I see14:31
freemangordonNotKit: hmm, wait, it should be (tm)14:31
freemangordoniirc the code calculates lots of thing based on the resolution14:32
Enrico_MenottiFirst, in the first two lines of the routing table, the gateway for the two local networks (wlan and usb) is set as What is this?14:32
KotCzarnyit should try to calculate in millimeters14:32
freemangordonmaybe only the icon sizes could be problematic14:32
KotCzarnyit's essentially what human would want14:32
KotCzarnyie. relative to his finger size14:33
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.14:33
KotCzarny0.0.0.0 is ana alias for 'default network, catch all'14:33
KotCzarnybecause there are specific routes ie. will be designation of your usb setup14:34
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: is wildcard14:34
freemangordonKotCzarny: I am not sure those for GW on an interface actually means anything14:35
KotCzarnyand when particular packet dont get routed by any specific rule, is used14:35
freemangordonKotCzarny: see what he asked ^^^14:35
Enrico_MenottiKotCzarny This is for the third and fourth line, right?14:35
freemangordon0.0.0.0 on the first and the second line14:35
Enrico_MenottiI'm concerned with the gateway in the first two.14:35
freemangordonKotCzarny: this is NOT default route14:36
freemangordondefault route has address, not gateway
Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Right, I think so.14:36
KotCzarnybtb (house call)14:36
DocScrutinizer05see my spam post above14:36
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Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 The wildcard?14:37
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: you mean '*' for interface GW?14:37
DocScrutinizer05and "default" for destination14:38
DocScrutinizer05route is more human readable in that14:38
freemangordonI don;t think that * means anything14:38
DocScrutinizer05it means "applies to all gateways" no?14:39
Enrico_MenottiOk, I understand the "default" in the destination, but not the "*" in the gateway.14:39
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: just ignore it for now :)14:39
DocScrutinizer05you could have multiple gateways with differnet metrics afaik14:39
freemangordon"The gateway address or '*' if none set."14:39
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ^^^ this is from man route14:40
DocScrutinizer05yes, sure14:40
DocScrutinizer05"none set" ==
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: so, this means "no gateway set"14:40
DocScrutinizer05aka 'wildcard'14:40
DocScrutinizer05or colloquial "never mind, it's an advanced feature"14:41
freemangordonI am not even sure it is possible to setup anything there14:43
Enrico_MenottiAh ok. So the means that packets to those first two IP's go directly there, without a gateway, through the specified interface, or that they pass through whatever gateway is available (but there are no other gateways here at play, right?).14:43
Enrico_Menotti(Sorry it was a question. Not dot, question mark.)14:44
DocScrutinizer05 the lyrical way: there's a network 192.168.4.x (all adresses to are available on this) and your interface is one of them. (end of line one)  All destinations ('default') that are NOT on 192.168.4.x are available via router (end of line 2)14:45
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: what happens is - tcp stack gets destination address, applies bitwise AND with all netmasks(third column), and compares the resulting value with the first column14:46
freemangordonthe first line that matches is the chosen interface14:47
Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Ok, I understand, but if the chosen interface is in the first two lines, since the gw is set as, does the packet go directly to its destination, or through a gw?14:47
DocScrutinizer05see my lyric explanation above14:48
DocScrutinizer05any address directly available on a defined network does _not_ get redirected to a gateway14:49
freemangordonsorry, had a phone call14:49
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: directly14:50
DocScrutinizer05use route without ".n", it's waaay more human readable14:50
DocScrutinizer05-n, even14:50
Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Ah ok this is clearer. So the gw is not set, but also not needed for my purposes, right?14:51
freemangordonI dislike it, as it tries to do reverse dns resolution14:51
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: now, do you understand why you don't have internet when usb0 is up?14:53
DocScrutinizer05the 'trick' is your network stack _knows_ about all the addresses directly available in that netwrork, from own address and netmask, both in ifconfig14:53
KotCzarnygateway set to for particular interface means to use default route14:53
freemangordonhmm, right14:54
freemangordonor rather "to not use gateway" :)14:54
KotCzarnyor 'see default gw' ;)14:54
freemangordonbut send directly through that interface14:54
freemangordonKotCzarny: I tend to disagree14:55
freemangordonif you have address match, no gateway lookup is performed afaik14:55
DocScrutinizer05for the curious geeks: I guess you could have two NIC with addr on same network. In this case gateway for LAN ("U") makes sense14:55
freemangordonanyway, this is very advanced routing, not usually found in home PCs14:56
DocScrutinizer05hmm, nope, that would be 'iface' then14:56
DocScrutinizer05nfc what for you need "gateway" in U14:57
DocScrutinizer05"no meaning" in U, needs a value nevertheless for filling the column in table ;-P14:57
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: BTW, do you know what 192.168.0/24 is supposed to mean?14:57
KotCzarnyyes, there are more rules than just ip14:57
KotCzarny it means match any address from 192.168.1.X range14:58
KotCzarny192.168.1.0/16 would mean: match any ip from 192.168.Y.X14:58
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: why do you ask this?14:58
freemangordonKotCzarny: I would read it as addr netmask, the point is that the number after / means how many consecutive nonzero bit we have in the 32 bit netmask, counting from right to left :)14:59
KotCzarnyyes, now you would need to explain what netmask is ;)14:59
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: why not ask "are you aware what netmask ( aka /24) means?"14:59
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: because we have types in linux15:00
freemangordonand it is one and the same thing15:00
KotCzarnyall in all, thanks to n900 he gets linux/networking crash course15:00
freemangordonKotCzarny: I already explained ^^^15:00
DocScrutinizer05you lost me15:00
KotCzarnyfmg: yeah, i'm sick and slow wyping/reading15:00
KotCzarnyso bear with my mental lags ;)15:00
Enrico_MenottiOk, right, one of the few things I still remember from my network courses at the University is that IP addresses are composed by two parts, right?15:01
freemangordon"what happens is - tcp stack gets destination address, applies bitwise AND with all netmasks(third column), and compares the resulting value with the first column"15:01
Enrico_MenottiThe network address, and the host address inside the (sub) network. If I remember right.15:02
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: I guess it could be said like that - "network" and "host", so yeah15:02
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: simply means: only look at the leftmost /N bits of addr15:02
KotCzarnybtw. did you guys heard that powervr sgx5XX source was dumped on the internet?15:02
freemangordonKotCzarny: yeah, some 3 years ago iirc15:02
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: or "only look at the bits where netmask bit is 1"15:02
KotCzarnyEnrico_Menotti: nope, that's connection15:02
KotCzarnytcp address is just ip15:02
Enrico_MenottiKotCzarny ?15:03
freemangordonKotCzarny: lets not merge tcp and ip, ok? :)15:03
KotCzarnymy aprils fools joke failed15:03
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: so yes, you got an IP addr and a netmask that says which parts of the IP are relevant15:03
freemangordonhmm, lets make it clear:15:03
KotCzarnyfmg: it's tcp/ip for a reason ;)15:03
freemangordonIP == Internet Protocol15:03
freemangordonTCP == Transmission Control Protocol15:03
Enrico_MenottiYes, the netmask says how long is the part that states the addresses of hosts in the subnet, right?15:04
DocScrutinizer05the /N form does, yes15:04
freemangordonit is the value to apply bitwise AND with the destination address, in short15:04
Enrico_Menottifreemangordon I mean, it's binary form states this.15:04
KotCzarnyhave fun with it15:05
Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Yes, we are saying the same thing, I did not explain my thought in a clear way.15:05
DocScrutinizer05>>there's a network 192.168.4.x (all adresses to are available on this)<<  Netmask aka /2415:05
KotCzarnysee how different /N affect the network and bits15:05
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: iirc it is not disallowed to have non-consecutive ones in the netmask, so "long" is not applicable here15:06
DocScrutinizer05the /24 means: watch only the leftmost 24 bits in the 32 bit addr15:06
freemangordonright, but you can;t use /N form for netmask of
Enrico_Menottifreemangordon This I really did not know. Never seen anything of this kind.15:06
KotCzarnyfmg: is such mask even legal?15:07
freemangordonon my home network?15:07
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: I think that's an ODD or even invalifd netmask15:07
freemangordonsure, it is odd15:07
freemangordonbut invalid? why?15:07
KotCzarnybecause its ineffective/useless15:07
DocScrutinizer05because NICs don't support it I guess15:07
DocScrutinizer05on a hardware level15:08
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: NICs have no idea of TCP15:08
DocScrutinizer05ooh for netmasks they might15:08
freemangordonI doubt15:08
KotCzarnyrouters/switches might barf15:08
DocScrutinizer05checkout WLAN15:08
Enrico_MenottiAs they told me many years ago, the subnet addresses are composed by either 1, 2 or 3 bytes. The first case implies 3 bytes for the network address, the second implies 2 bytes, the third 1. These are the three classes of networks. Am I right?15:08
freemangordonsure, but for ethernet it is perfectly fine netmask, albeit odd and ineffective15:09
DocScrutinizer05hardMAC will filter for IP addr and not even wake CPU when not addressed15:09
KotCzarnyEnrico_Menotti: you are talking about traditional (old) subnet classes15:09
DocScrutinizer05that's the whhole point of promiscuous mode15:09
KotCzarnyin fact there might be other masks/networks configured15:10
Enrico_MenottiKotCzarny Ah it's something I learned in 2000/2001.15:10
freemangordon2 days ago I setup a netmask of iirc15:10
DocScrutinizer05many tools reject that15:11
freemangordonanyway, the rule is addr AND mask15:11
DocScrutinizer05and for good reason15:11
KotCzarnyfmg, 'it works' vs 'it's proper' are two different things15:11
KotCzarnyyou can have your lan set to
KotCzarnyand it WILL work15:12
freemangordonbut you can do whatever suits you in your intranet15:12
KotCzarnybut there will be gotchas15:12
KotCzarnyand better not to let bad habits stick15:12
Enrico_MenottiOk, let's try to close this question (gateway, ok? If a packet goes to an address belonging to those specified in the first two lines, and the address is found on the local network, the packet goes straight there, right? But what if the address is not found? Is the packet immediately rejected, or the routing protocol looks for a gw with address
freemangordonok, ok15:12
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: again, stack does AND to find the interface15:13
KotCzarnyenrico: 'straight there' results from defined route for your lan15:13
freemangordonthe result of AND is :)15:13
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: maybe boolean AND is not a nice easy way to explain it15:13
KotCzarnyit's not magical, it's setup automatically when bringing up the interface15:13
freemangordonit is not boolean, but bitwise :)15:14
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: maybe not nice and easy, but correct15:14
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: the check only looks at the first /N bits of your addr, and compares those to the leftmost col in `route`15:15
DocScrutinizer05it follows the first line rule that matches15:15
Enrico_MenottiYes, ok, I understand all this. Let's say the address belongs to those specified in the first two lines, ok?15:15
DocScrutinizer05so for it matches "   U     0      0        0 wlan0"15:16
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: the first match is taken15:16
DocScrutinizer05for it matches "         UG    0      0        0 wlan0"15:16
KotCzarnyunless there are round robin routing algos running15:16
KotCzarnywhich would then make things more 'interesting' ;)15:16
freemangordonyeah, but this is advanced routing15:16
Enrico_MenottiOk, now. If is actually on the wlan, the packet goes straight there, right?15:17
KotCzarnyif it matches the route for wlan, yes15:17
Enrico_Menotti(Since the gw is stated as
freemangordonif your wlan is on network, then yes15:17
DocScrutinizer05since the stack knows it's on LAN, from your ifconfig of the betwork15:18
DocScrutinizer05wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr EC:9B:5B:FD:85:5115:18
DocScrutinizer05          inet addr:  Bcast:  Mask:
Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Ok.15:18
DocScrutinizer05see, you got a IP addr ANd A NETMASK there too15:18
KotCzarnyif (ip&&mask == route dest) packet goes this way; else check next rule;15:19
DocScrutinizer05so it's evident you can reach on that interface15:19
DocScrutinizer05no routing needed15:19
freemangordonKotCzarny: if (ip & mask == route dest) ;)15:19
KotCzarnymaybe i should work on code today ;)15:20
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: exactly what I was saying, but expressed in pseudocode15:20
DocScrutinizer05maybe ask if Enrico_Menotti is a coder, first?15:21
infobotKotCzarny meant: maybe i shouldn't work on code today ;)15:21
freemangordonand this is the way it works, unless there are some advanced routing rules setup, we won;t elaborate on here and now :)15:21
KotCzarnyfmg, and firewall! dont forget about firewall rules ;)15:22
freemangordonwell, but routing has been already done15:22
KotCzarnynot if firewall reroutes the packet or does nat ;)15:22
freemangordonyeah, right15:22
freemangordonI guess you mean snat :p15:23
Enrico_MenottiOk, I was just wondering what happens if the address matches that first line in the routing table, but that address is not actually on the wlan. Is the packet rejected, or a gateway at is looked for? But I don't want now to continue on this elaboration. What you explained is really useful, thank you everybody.15:23
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: your problem is you got TWO gateways, which is almost *always* a very odd thing to have15:23
KotCzarnypacket with new ip slappen on it is still having same payload (usually)15:23
DocScrutinizer05well, unless you have a router you want to config15:23
freemangordonKotCzarny: DNAT and MASQUERADE are don in POSTROUTING tables IIRC15:23
KotCzarnymight be15:24
DocScrutinizer05OHNOES, please let's not start with iptables now!15:24
freemangordonok :)15:24
DocScrutinizer05we had to, when we wanted to explain how to set up PC as router15:25
DocScrutinizer05but as said before, rather USE A DAMN WLAN ACCESS POINT!!!15:25
KotCzarnyone could have fun with circle routes15:25
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: at least on my ubuntu it is not needed to play with iptables in order to share your inet connection to another interface. there is a nice and easy GUI15:25
KotCzarnyand a little firewall rule to answer twice15:25
freemangordonI guess it is same/similar on debian15:26
DocScrutinizer05well, then that tool does the iptables MASQUERADE et al magic for you. Doesn't save you from lengthy intricate explanations when it fails to work as supposed15:27
DocScrutinizer05which is the case more often than not, in my experience15:27
freemangordonI think the only thing that has to be done is to set usb0 on N900 to auto15:27
KotCzarnyor disable usb0 gw15:28
KotCzarnyor make pc route/forward packets15:28
DocScrutinizer05or don't use friggin deprecated USB networking15:28
freemangordonKotCzarny: no, as you need usb0 ip assigned via DHCP15:28
KotCzarnyfmg, but then he would need to setup dhcp on pc15:28
freemangordonthe same goes for GW/DNS15:28
DocScrutinizer05or read the relatively fine explanations in ~usbnetworking15:29
freemangordonmy ubuntu does it for me15:29
freemangordonit is really that simple as explained on askubuntu15:29
freemangordonsure, you can tweak it as much as you want15:29
DocScrutinizer05meh! have fun folks, i'm definitely out15:29
Enrico_MenottiOk, I think I understand what I need about my situation, enough to realise what is happening to my packets. Now, when has the second gw been set up? I mean: I have a wireless router, which has address, and it's set as gw for all IP's which are not on my (two) lan's, in the last line. But before that line, another line is setting (my computer) as gw for those IP's. I need to avoid this third15:30
Enrico_Menotti line. When has this been set up? How to avoid it?15:30
KotCzarnywhen it was setup in /etc/network/interfaces15:30
KotCzarnyand usb0 went up15:30
DocScrutinizer05((when has the second gw been set up?)) with ifup, so try ifdown!15:30
DocScrutinizer05may work, or fail15:31
Enrico_MenottiSo should I look into /etc/network/interfaces and try to edit it?15:31
Enrico_MenottiOk, let me try to do ifdown.15:31
KotCzarnysure. disable gw there (only)15:31
DocScrutinizer05no, you should try ifdown and then don't use usb networking15:31
DocScrutinizer05ifup is not made to cope with your device having concurrent (WLAN) interface up and running, and you should not use it like that15:34
DocScrutinizer05ifup usb is made to provide full internet access via a PC that is set up to forward your traffic to the wider interbet15:35
DocScrutinizer05internet even15:35
DocScrutinizer05nobody considered you want to run it despite you have absolutely fine WLAN working15:36
DocScrutinizer05if you want to really explore that shite, disbale WLAN on N900 first15:36
Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Ok, I understand.15:36
Enrico_MenottiThe ifdown worked.15:36
Enrico_MenottiI think the best thing to do is using the usb just for massive data transfer, and the wlan for the rest.15:37
DocScrutinizer05that's what I suggested, yes15:37
DocScrutinizer05only use ass rage mode15:37
DocScrutinizer05and don't use the device during that15:38
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: wrong, you can have perfectly running wlan internet access AND working ssh through usb simultaneously. He only needs to comment that "gateway" line in /etc/network/interfaces15:38
DocScrutinizer05WHAT FOR FFS!!!15:38
Enrico_MenottiThe last point: the "Y" on XTerminal. Any idea? (But I don't want to annoy you with this!)15:38
freemangordonif he wants to15:38
DocScrutinizer05if he wants to he could install RTOS on the device, but **WHAT FOR**?15:39
KotCzarnyenrico, most likely similar 'self inflicted trouble story', we just dont know what you did yet ;)15:39
freemangordonjust because :)15:39
KotCzarnyenrico: you have said it works via ssh, right?15:39
KotCzarnywhat exactly happens in terminal?15:39
Enrico_MenottiYes, it works via ssh.15:39
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: use lower case y15:40
Enrico_MenottiIn terminal, when I run apt-get, it ends in asking whether I want to continue, and proposes Y or n. No Y or y works.15:40
freemangordonand what happens?15:40
freemangordonerror message?15:40
Enrico_MenottiAs if I state n.15:40
Enrico_MenottiNo error message.15:40
freemangordonyep. pastebin15:41
Enrico_MenottiSeems just not to recognise the Y.15:41
DocScrutinizer05there _was_ some bug in apt with that15:41
KotCzarnymaybe you press enter and some other letter sneaks in15:41
DocScrutinizer05keymapping sneaks in15:41
Enrico_MenottiIs it possible that it detects me pressing shift?15:41
KotCzarnybig fingers?15:42
DocScrutinizer05try the key right of "T" and the key your locale "yes" word starts with15:42
Siceloearlier i asked - does the Y/y get recognized properly in other applications?15:42
KotCzarnyand again, pastebin pls15:42
DocScrutinizer05or what Sicelo said15:42
Enrico_MenottiSicelo Sorry I don't know. I will work with it and see.15:43
DocScrutinizer05but as I said, there *was* a bug in that15:43
DocScrutinizer05something in the wider topic "locale"15:44
Enrico_MenottiOk, so I will just use ssh or, if that's not possible, copy and paste from a text editor, right?15:44
KotCzarnycopypaste from terminal15:44
Enrico_MenottiOk, also.15:44
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KotCzarnyalso output of: locale15:45
DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: try the following:  LANG=gb_US apt-get installl .... blabla your cmdline15:46
DocScrutinizer05see if the prefix "LANG=gb_US " changes stuff for you15:46
DocScrutinizer05or what freemangordon said15:46
freemangordonthis is what is set on my N90015:47
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I'm getting dizzy with this15:47
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# echo $LANG15:48
DocScrutinizer05for whatever friggin reason :-/15:48
DocScrutinizer05usually I don't care15:48
Enrico_MenottiMy locale.15:48
Enrico_MenottiIt's Italian.15:48
Enrico_MenottiThere something strange, though. A couple of errors.15:48
KotCzarnydoes apt asks you for yes oe si?15:48
KotCzarnytry s15:49
KotCzarnyor S15:49
DocScrutinizer05try "LANG=en_US.UTF-8 apt-get ..."15:49
DocScrutinizer05what's the italian word for "yes"? try first letter as suggested above15:49
freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: how is "yes" in Italian? "si"? try to enter S when asked15:50
KotCzarnyand for future, its best to keep root accoubt with kocale set to C15:50
KotCzarnyie. add to your /root/.profile: export LC_ALL=C15:50
Enrico_MenottiOk, I will consider all these options. Now I cannot test them, since I already installed my package by ssh.15:51
Enrico_MenottiWhat's C?15:51
KotCzarnytheb relog15:51
KotCzarnyuninstall package15:51
KotCzarnyinsstall again :P15:51
Enrico_MenottiKotCzarny Ok, but I'd prefer not. :)15:51
KotCzarnythen choose some small package15:51
KotCzarnywhat is small enough and non essential?15:52
DocScrutinizer05now thinking about it I guess the BUG was: apt asks for "yes/no" but expects reply in locale set15:52
DocScrutinizer05on a more technical level: apt localization broken for some locales, when asking for yes/no reply15:52
Enrico_MenottiI will tell "sì". So a capital S.15:53
KotCzarnyenrico: use 3g2g-mode-selection-applet for a testing15:53
KotCzarnyits 8kb small15:53
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DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: it's a good approach to "rather not2 on may stuff kotzarny suggests. I got him on my ignore for his offensive way to force his own thoughts on others15:54
KotCzarnyits a good approach to ignore docs often too, as he sees only one way to setup everything. his15:54
Enrico_MenottiDon't fight please!15:55
DocScrutinizer05thoughts that often are plain wrong or unneededly complex15:55
KotCzarnyenrico: what was the result of S ?15:55
Enrico_MenottiOk, now it's late. I have to set up myself. I have to go out now. I will test the "S" another time. Now I really can't. Thank you everybody for the useful and pleasant discussion.15:56
DocScrutinizer05test the "S"? aah Si, eh?15:57
DocScrutinizer05oh, you said that above15:58
* DocScrutinizer05 also heads out, for good15:58
DocScrutinizer05so either in "apt for armel compiled on Dec 23 2014 22:50:05" or in my system's locale settings (incl the locale translation files) it's fixed. Or I messed up and forgot about some detail during test16:06
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DocScrutinizer05I.E. "broken .po file"16:18
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SiceloKotCzarny: thanks for the pastebin /raw/ trick16:39
KotCzarnysicelo: i've converted to noscript extension some time ago, it really helps16:39
KotCzarnyand if a site fails to work without js, tough luck, i go elsewhere16:41
KotCzarnyit has clickable enable too, for sites you want/need to access16:41
Siceloi have it .. maybe i should check my config again16:42
KotCzarnyor click 'allow temporarily' instead 'permament'16:43
Siceloon another note: i think this simple code is elegant (not mine of course)16:47
KotCzarnyopening links without knowing where they will land?16:53
KotCzarnyahm, its msg reader?16:53
Sicelolol .. it just takes messages and sends them to MicroB16:54
Siceloseems he made it for people who need large text, as font size is not adjustable16:55
KotCzarnykeep in mindg your /tmp is only 1MB16:55
Sicelounlikely that you'd have messages that much .. anyway .. i just like the concept. i don't personally need large text16:56
KotCzarnyyup, nice bit of code16:56
Sicelooscp/gtk use hildon styling or plain gtk?16:58
KotCzarnydepends on mode16:58
KotCzarnyits configurable in options16:58
KotCzarnysame as for oscp-remote.py16:58
KotCzarnywith plain getk it gets hildon styling16:58
KotCzarnybecause hildon uses system's gtk theme16:59
KotCzarnybut you can overrule gtk style in app too16:59
KotCzarnythough usually its a bad idea16:59
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Siceloi want to run CM13 on my Samsung Galaxy S4 - looks like flasher intricacies are nothing compared to the confusion in the Android world :-/20:07
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NotKitdoes Fennec require non-composited mode?20:33
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ZungoSicelo: samsung phones are the easiest thing to flash stuff :p22:59
Zungoalso, if its the i950022:59
Zungoyou're using proprietary blobs :(22:59
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Sicelowell ..23:03
Siceloright now the bugger is not being detected when in dowload mode. i feel like flinging it to the wall23:03
Siceloadb does work fine. i've tried other USB ports, and cables23:04
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KotCzarnyeither wrong usb port, wrong driver, booted instead of flashing or it's a punishment for straying away from godly n90023:05
Zungosicelo: you use odin for download mode23:05
Zungoand the samsung usb drivers provide all the drivers23:06
Zungoadb, "modem", download mode and stock recovery23:06
SiceloZungo: i'm using Linux, and the phone does not even come up in syslog .. so that's not driver issue in my book23:07
Zungowell, you need windows to use download mode23:07
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Sicelothen what's heimdall for?23:07
Zungosomething up with the connection23:07
warfareSicelo: try changing the cable, Samsungs are picky.23:07
Zungo^ yea23:07
Siceloi've tried 3 now23:07
Zungorebooted when changing cables?23:08
Siceloreboot phone? yes. pc no23:08
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Siceloby the way, adb can interact with the phone just fine (which suggests to me that the cable is fine, as well as the port on pc)23:10
Siceloin download mode, absolutely nothing23:10
Zungotry windows?23:10
warfareIs the cdc_acm module loaded?23:10
KotCzarnyis device showing in lsusb?23:11
Sicelowhere am i going to get windows :p23:11
SiceloKotCzarny: doesn't show up in syslog .. definitely no chance for it to show up in lsusb.23:11
KotCzarnynot true23:11
KotCzarnyif your kernel wanst compiled with 'announce new devices'23:11
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Zungohow to query kernel capabilities?23:12
KotCzarnygzip -dc /proc/config.gz|grep SOMETHING23:12
KotCzarnysicelo, lsusb queries usb tree23:13
Sicelowarfare: it is (was loaded when connecting it in normal mode for adb). i've removed now. will test again23:14
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warfareOh, and did you stop adb?23:15
Zungodownload mode doesnt use adb23:15
warfareThats why it should be stopped ;)23:16
Zungomaybe it interferes, sure23:16
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Siceloit was still running in background. closed. same result23:17
warfareSicelo: anything in lsusb?23:17
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Zungoadb kill-server btw23:22
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Sicelook. i think i should give up for now ... noot getting anywhere23:37
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Siceloexact same symptoms. i rebooted pc just to be sure i don't have something left over from my adb and other sessions23:38
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