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| Enrico_Menotti | Hello, is anybody available who may explain to me a couple of things about system images, in connection with the N900? | 01:27 |
|---|---|---|
| Wizzup | We've tested the devuan image a bit, wifi should now work by default, and figured out some evdev ts stuff (instead of using tslib) | 01:38 |
| Wizzup | freemangordon: amprolla is estimated to be ready for our usage in 2 weeks (cc parazyd) | 01:39 |
| parazyd | yeah, there was talk about do/don't rewrite it from scratch | 01:39 |
| parazyd | but i have to | 01:39 |
| parazyd | the one running is not written by programmers and it's a mess tbh | 01:40 |
| parazyd | there is also some talk about gitlab deprecation, but i don't know much yet | 01:41 |
| parazyd | the ci (jenkins) stays in place though | 01:41 |
| parazyd | also good progress today, if anyone needs a devuan image, here goes: https://pub.parazyd.cf/tmp/ | 01:42 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Sorry for my ignorance, but I still don't understand the difference between initrd and rootfs - I mean, the flasher may upload kernels, initrd's and rootfs's. Now in order to boot rescue OS I have to upload the first two. I did that successfully. But if one wants to boot any chosen Linux distro, first thing is to build kernel and file system, and then upload the zImage for the kernel, but what for the file system? Is | 01:51 |
| Enrico_Menotti | it correct to create a disk image containing the system tree and upload that? | 01:51 |
| bencoh | "rootfs" usually refers to a root filesystem lying open on top of some kind of blockdevice | 02:02 |
| bencoh | initrd/initramfs usually refer to some file hierarchy archive that is loaded by kernel at early boot stage in lieu of a root "fs" | 02:03 |
| bencoh | either by loading it as a ramdisk, or as a tmpfs in which it is extracted | 02:03 |
| bencoh | some (so-called live) systems run entirely from an initramfs, with no rootfs lying on any blockdevice | 02:05 |
| bencoh | and some system boot directly from a blockdevice (specified by root=) with no initrd/initramfs | 02:05 |
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| Maxdamantus | Enrico_Menotti: if you do create a filesystem image that you intend to upload using flasher, it should probably be in ubifs rather than something like ext*. | 02:23 |
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| Maxdamantus | I think ubifs has userspace tools for creating such images from a directory. | 02:23 |
| Maxdamantus | as bencoh pretty much said, initrd/initramfs is a filesystem that just exists in RAM; Linux is told about the address it's in as it loads, and it might copy the contents somewhere else into RAM before running init. | 02:25 |
| Maxdamantus | if you instead just specify root=, it will try to mount that as a normal filesystem (so it's up to the usual filesystem drivers (ext4, btrfs, ubifs)) to figure out how to present the filesystem. | 02:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and maemo6 doesn't use any initrd | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo5 | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fremantle | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it still has a initrd partition on NAND which is dead legacy | 06:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas too small for a decent ubifs or whatever | 06:17 |
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| Vajb | what is the correct way to clean syslog? I just realized that it has grown to 21mb | 07:22 |
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| KotCzarny | if you dont need it, you can simply stop syslog, delete file and restart syslog | 07:48 |
| KotCzarny | or you can setup logrotate to move/compress it | 07:48 |
| KotCzarny | which is preferred way if you arent short on space | 07:48 |
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| freemangordon | Wizzup: parazyd: ok | 08:40 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | bencoh Maxdamantus Thank you. And sorry for the late reply - I had to go to bed. | 10:07 |
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| Vajb | KotCzarny: thx. I suddenly realized what my problem was. I tried stop syslogd isntead os stop sysklogd | 10:16 |
| Vajb | sos syslog done, ev-1.db (or something) dealt with. Are there any other files which bloat and should be taken care of? | 10:17 |
| KotCzarny | you shouldnt really run syslog on device | 10:18 |
| Vajb | oh? | 10:20 |
| KotCzarny | unless you are debugging something, its just unnecessary writes/wakeups | 10:20 |
| Vajb | im just keeping if incase of hicups :D | 10:22 |
| Vajb | not that i would understand what it logs... | 10:23 |
| Vajb | but i can always drop line or two here to get clarification | 10:23 |
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| Maxdamantus | TTF: 1278 minutes TTE: 65535 minutes | 10:31 |
| Maxdamantus | Fun. | 10:31 |
| KotCzarny | is charging? | 10:31 |
| Maxdamantus | only 21 hours left till it's charged. | 10:31 |
| Maxdamantus | no internet at home, so going through N900 over WiFi. | 10:32 |
| KotCzarny | might get drained faster than charging | 10:32 |
| Maxdamantus | for some reason g_ether hasn't been working while there's an internet connection over the cellular network. | 10:32 |
| Maxdamantus | It seems to charging at least on a dedicated power source. | 10:34 |
| Maxdamantus | # cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150a-0/current_limit | 10:34 |
| Maxdamantus | 1800 | 10:34 |
| Maxdamantus | wouldn't charge off my computer's USB port as usual, don't really want to force it to 2A. | 10:34 |
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| KotCzarny | maybe try bt instead of wifi? | 10:37 |
| Maxdamantus | cbf figuring that out. | 10:38 |
| Maxdamantus | Is there a reason it would use less power? | 10:39 |
| KotCzarny | no beacons? | 10:39 |
| Maxdamantus | It's not in AP mode. | 10:39 |
| KotCzarny | oh | 10:40 |
| Maxdamantus | Maybe wpa_supplicant does something that uses more power than usual, dunno. | 10:40 |
| Maxdamantus | Meh, doubt it. | 10:41 |
| KotCzarny | bt was designed to be slow and low power | 10:41 |
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| KotCzarny | {C 10. Bluetooth vs. WiFi - Power Consumption: Able to works at longer distances and loaded with high quality security protocols makes Wi-Fi a more power consuming protocol than Bluetooth. | 10:42 |
| Maxdamantus | I suspect if I combined the typical power drain using a cellular internet connection and a WiFi connection it would probably be similar to what it's using atm | 10:42 |
| Maxdamantus | maemo just doesn't normally let you do that afai | 10:42 |
| Maxdamantus | k | 10:42 |
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| Maxdamantus | Yeah, the encryption could be significant. | 10:43 |
| Maxdamantus | I don't really mind. It's at least not draining overall. | 10:43 |
| * Maxdamantus will disconnect it overnight. | 10:44 | |
| KotCzarny | as long your powerbrick isbr overheating it should be ok | 10:44 |
| KotCzarny | *isn't | 10:44 |
| Maxdamantus | Well, the N900 won't draw more than 2A from the powerbrick. | 10:44 |
| Maxdamantus | and the powerbrick thing is meant to provide "100 W" | 10:45 |
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| Maxdamantus | (though not through USB) | 10:45 |
| KotCzarny | hehe, then it should be fine. thought you use some phone charger | 10:45 |
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| KotCzarny | http://www.clearevo.com/ecodroidlink/bluetooth_vs_wifi_on_android_battery_consumption/ | 10:50 |
| KotCzarny | and that's while playing the vid | 10:50 |
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| KotCzarny | so actual savings might be much higher | 10:57 |
| Maxdamantus | Well, I'd like to look into why g_ether stops working when there's a cellular internet connection sometime. | 11:00 |
| Maxdamantus | That would probably be the most power-efficient. | 11:01 |
| KotCzarny | does the interface go down/deconfigure? | 11:01 |
| Maxdamantus | No. | 11:01 |
| KotCzarny | not pingable? | 11:01 |
| Maxdamantus | Right. | 11:02 |
| KotCzarny | o.O | 11:02 |
| KotCzarny | that's definitely weird | 11:02 |
| Maxdamantus | I'm pretty sure I've used g_ether and gprs0 at the same time before. | 11:03 |
| Zungo | hmm | 11:03 |
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| KotCzarny | maybe you have used g_nokia? | 11:09 |
| Maxdamantus | Have never tried ethernet over g_nokia. | 11:10 |
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| bencoh | Maxdamantus: are you sure it stops working? how do you check it stil/no longer works? | 11:10 |
| * Maxdamantus has had g_ether load instead on boot for at least a year and a half. | 11:10 | |
| Maxdamantus | bencoh: well, I can run ping continuously on either side. | 11:11 |
| bencoh | and I suppose I should definitely move to g_ether as well, because I suspect there is a bug in g_nokia | 11:11 |
| bencoh | Maxdamantus: try something else then, because the gprs-related scripts disable icmp answers when enabling the gprs0 interface :) | 11:11 |
| Maxdamantus | it stops as soon as gprs0 connects, and continues again once it's disconnected. | 11:11 |
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| Maxdamantus | Kind of annoying that it seems to set wlan0 down when connecting gprs0. | 12:49 |
| Maxdamantus | s/connecting/reconnecting/ | 12:49 |
| infobot | Maxdamantus meant: Kind of annoying that it seems to set wlan0 down when reconnecting gprs0. | 12:49 |
| Maxdamantus | oh, and with the ICMP thing .. I can still ping over wifi when gprs0 is up. | 12:50 |
| Maxdamantus | er, nvm, the N900 doesn't respond to pings. | 12:51 |
| Maxdamantus | but when experimenting with g_ether/gprs0 I would've done it both ways. | 12:52 |
| KotCzarny | that's why i hate all those network-manager-like thingies | 12:52 |
| KotCzarny | they dont count for some weird configs | 12:53 |
| KotCzarny | *account | 12:54 |
| Wizzup | maemo keeps the wifi link up when connecting to gprs0 | 12:54 |
| Wizzup | it's just that when gprs0 is connected, it drops wlan0 | 12:54 |
| Wizzup | if you don't manage to connect to gprs0, wlan0 is never brought down | 12:54 |
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| KotCzarny | hehe | 13:00 |
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| Sicelo | Maxdamantus: wpa_supplicant? | 13:25 |
| Sicelo | KotCzarny: i wonder about those results .. sure they aren't also just pushing their product? :) | 13:29 |
| KotCzarny | Sicelo: who knows, wanna do a n900 specific benchmark? ;) | 13:29 |
| Sicelo | :) | 13:30 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Hello, tonight I got suggestions about the kind of file system which is expected by the flasher to upload an initrd (I am considering a scenario like the one at play with Rescue OS, where one uploads kernel and initrd by the flasher and then boots them). | 13:32 |
| Sicelo | if for some reason someone is forced to use wpa_supplicant on N900, iwconfig wlan0 power on helps to keep battery consumption at normal levels | 13:32 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Somebody suggested it should be a ubifs instead of ext3. | 13:33 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | May anybody confirm this? | 13:33 |
| KotCzarny | for initrd it doesnt matter | 13:33 |
| KotCzarny | if you plan to make a rootfs that will get flashed on nand, ubifs is strongly recommended | 13:34 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Well, I debootstrapped a debian file system and put it on a disk image formatted ext3. Then tried to upload by flasher-3.5 -n <myInitrd> -l. It doesn't work. | 13:34 |
| KotCzarny | dont remember what -n does | 13:35 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Specifies an initrd. According to the help, right? | 13:35 |
| KotCzarny | also, make sure fs you use is compiled in the kernel, not as a module | 13:35 |
| KotCzarny | i think ext3 is loaded as a module in initrd on maemo | 13:36 |
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| Enrico_Menotti_ | But how does rescue OS work? There is a zImage, uploaded by flasher-3.5 -k zImage -l, and an initrd, uploaded by flasher-3.5 -n initrd -l. | 13:37 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | The former is the kernel, the latter the initrd, right? | 13:37 |
| KotCzarny | um | 13:37 |
| KotCzarny | last time i checked the line was different? | 13:38 |
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| KotCzarny | you do all in one line | 13:38 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | It is flasher-3.5 -k zImage -n initrd -l -b"parameters". | 13:38 |
| KotCzarny | yes, but in one line | 13:38 |
| KotCzarny | also, rescueos uses its own kernel, not the maemo one | 13:38 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | But this does not work either with the initrd I prepared for Debian. | 13:39 |
| KotCzarny | which kernel are you using? | 13:39 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | I am using a Linux kernel from the mainline. There is one for the N900. But the problem is not the kernel, it's the flasher, which is unable to recognise the format of the initrd. | 13:39 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | (I think.) | 13:39 |
| KotCzarny | and keep in mind there might be feature incompatibilities, 2.6.28 and ext2/3 in it might be too old for the initrd you prepare in debian | 13:39 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Sorry, lunch ready. Will be back. | 13:40 |
| Maxdamantus | 23:32:48 < Sicelo> if for some reason someone is forced to use wpa_supplicant on N900, iwconfig wlan0 power on helps to keep battery consumption at normal levels | 13:57 |
| Maxdamantus | I'm using wpa_supplicant because the normal network manager doesn't let you connect both gprs0 and wlan0 at the same time. | 13:57 |
| Maxdamantus | So I'll just connect gprs0 the normal way (through the GUI) then run wpa_supplicant myself. | 13:58 |
| Maxdamantus | then I can just route traffic from my normal computer through the N900 by adding a default route referring to its wlan0 address. | 13:59 |
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| Maxdamantus | (having enabled ipv4 forwarding and NAT from wlan0 to gprs0) | 13:59 |
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| Maxdamantus | Where is the wpa_supplicant functionality in maemo btw? is it directly inside icd2? | 14:06 |
| * Maxdamantus wonders if it just has a copy of a portion of the wpa_supplicant code in it. | 14:07 | |
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| Maxdamantus | 23:33:11 < Enrico_Menotti_> Somebody suggested it should be a ubifs instead of ext3. | 14:30 |
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| Maxdamantus | The ubifs is for the root filesystem if you're putting it on NAND (which is what flasher does) | 14:31 |
| Maxdamantus | tbh, don't bother trying to put Debian on NAND. | 14:32 |
| Maxdamantus | just put it on a normal filesystem on eMMC or an SD card. | 14:33 |
| Maxdamantus | NAND is only 256 MiB. The smallness is the reason for maemo's optification stuff. | 14:33 |
| Maxdamantus | Enrico_Menotti_: don't bother thinking about "flashing" Debian. | 14:34 |
| Maxdamantus | Enrico_Menotti_: just flash u-boot and have u-boot load your Debian kernel and initrd and set the commandline. | 14:35 |
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| Enrico_Menotti_ | I was trying to test the whole thing without flashing anything. The flasher is also able to upload and boot kernel and initrd. This is how Rescue OS works. But I don't understand which format it expects for the initrd. | 14:38 |
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| Enrico_Menotti_ | Maxdamantus: Sorry for the "somebody". I did not remember who said that, if you or somebody else... | 14:38 |
| Maxdamantus | But you're not going to put an entire Debian installation in an initrd. | 14:38 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Isn't that possible just for testing? | 14:39 |
| Maxdamantus | It's not really practical due to the likely size. | 14:39 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | But so what should I put in the initrd? And with what format? | 14:39 |
| Maxdamantus | The modules required by the kernel you're using to mount the root filesystem. | 14:40 |
| Maxdamantus | and some scripts/programs to actually do that mount then pivot_root/switch_root and chroot into it. | 14:41 |
| Maxdamantus | I think that's pretty much what Debian provides for you when you tell it to build an initrd. | 14:42 |
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| Maxdamantus | you still need to have the actual root filesystem somewhere (preferably not on NAND, again because of size limitations), and the command line passed to the kernel from the bootloader should point to that. | 14:43 |
| Maxdamantus | (the Debian initrd will probably parse the contents of /proc/commandline to figure out what to mount) | 14:43 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Ok, I understand, but still don't understand the format for the initrd image, in order to upload it with the flasher. | 14:44 |
| Maxdamantus | Personally, I pretty much just do all the stuff the initrd would normally do just from NAND. | 14:44 |
| Maxdamantus | so my NAND has modules for a bunch of kernels and some scripts that can continue booting into maemo or debian. | 14:44 |
| Maxdamantus | (both maemo's and debian's roots are just directories in a single partition on the eMMC) | 14:45 |
| Maxdamantus | The initrd image should probably be the output of something like `cpio -o -H newc | gzip -9` or whatever it is. | 14:47 |
| Maxdamantus | It could be an ext3 image if you know the kernel has ext3 support built-in. | 14:48 |
| KotCzarny | nah, thats initramfs | 14:48 |
| KotCzarny | initrd is actual dump of fs | 14:48 |
| Maxdamantus | They're passed in the same way. | 14:48 |
| KotCzarny | but they are different | 14:48 |
| Maxdamantus | Sure, but it's up to Linux to determine that. | 14:48 |
| KotCzarny | and i think initramfs only works if you glue it to the kernel | 14:49 |
| Maxdamantus | glue? | 14:49 |
| Maxdamantus | You pass in an initramfs in the exact same way you pass in an initrd. | 14:49 |
| KotCzarny | last time i've tried it failed, might be some missing uboot wrapping though | 14:49 |
| Maxdamantus | eg, if you're using grub, you'd use the "initrd" command. | 14:49 |
| KotCzarny | or maybe missing -H newc | 14:50 |
| Maxdamantus | the `-H newc` part is important afaik. I don't think Linux understands the default format produced by cpio. | 14:51 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 runs syslog all the time | 14:51 | |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Maxdamantus: So it is not sufficient to create a disk image with the right formatting and put the file system folders there, right? | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Vajb: ^^^ | 14:51 |
| KotCzarny | he just gave you the command line | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Vajb: it usually gets logrotated during next reboot | 14:52 |
| Maxdamantus | Enrico_Menotti_: if you can fit everything in there, it could be sufficient. | 14:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but actually I maybe should change the log location, move it to uSD to not wear my NAND | 14:53 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Maxdamantus: I think I fit everything, but the flasher does not understand the format. | 14:53 |
| Maxdamantus | Enrico_Menotti_: how big is it? | 14:53 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | ... don't remember exactly, but I think I created a disk image of about 512 Mb. | 14:54 |
| KotCzarny | lol | 14:54 |
| KotCzarny | you know it has to be loaded into 256MB of ram? | 14:54 |
| Maxdamantus | Enrico_Menotti_: that's obviously not going to work since the N900 only has 256 MiB of RAM. | 14:54 |
| KotCzarny | and actually half of that | 14:54 |
| KotCzarny | because you need ram to run software too? | 14:54 |
| Maxdamantus | Enrico_Menotti_: and the ramdisks in Linux are even further restricted. | 14:54 |
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| Enrico_Menotti_ | Sorry for the noise - did a WHOIS by mistake. | 14:56 |
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| Enrico_Menotti_ | Maxdamantus: I quote you: <Maxdamantus> NAND is only 256 MiB. The smallness is the reason for maemo's optification stuff. | 14:57 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | So the 256 Mb is for the NAND or for the whole RAM? | 14:57 |
| KotCzarny | first, dont use 'b' | 14:57 |
| KotCzarny | its for bits | 14:57 |
| KotCzarny | for bytes use B | 14:57 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | KotCzarny: Sorry, you're right. My mistake. | 14:58 |
| Maxdamantus | N900 has 256 MiB of NAND and 256 MiB of RAM. | 14:58 |
| KotCzarny | next, ramdisk uses ram and stays in ram unless you move onto different device with pivot_root and unload the ramdisk | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti_: maemo5 doesn't use any initrd | 14:59 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | KotCzarny: Could you also explain why the "i" in MiB? Sorry... | 15:00 |
| KotCzarny | its 1024 vs 1000 | 15:00 |
| Maxdamantus | MiB = 1048576 B | 15:00 |
| Maxdamantus | MB = 1000000 B | 15:00 |
| KotCzarny | historically megabyte was 1024*1024, for many years though marketing advertised megabyte as 1000*1000 | 15:00 |
| KotCzarny | etc | 15:00 |
| Maxdamantus | MiB should probably be pronounced "mebibyte" | 15:01 |
| Maxdamantus | MB is "megabyte", since M- is the SI prefix "mega", meaning 1000000 | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and bootloader will not use it even when you flash an initrd to the NAND partition | 15:01 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Ah, I always thought of MB as 1024*1024. | 15:01 |
| Maxdamantus | Well, various things refer to 1024*1024 as MB | 15:01 |
| Maxdamantus | but if you're trying to avoid ambiguity, it's probably better to use MiB. | 15:02 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Ok. | 15:02 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | So at this point I think I will put the file system on the sd card. | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually initrd is a means to allow platform agnostic kernels to boot and init the system | 15:02 |
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| Enrico_Menotti_ | DocScrutinizer05: Ok, I'd just like to understand how Rescue OS works. | 15:03 |
| KotCzarny | Enrico_Menotti_: you can practice it easily on pc | 15:03 |
| Maxdamantus | I only use initrds (well, initramfs if you want to make that distinction) to boot into multi-device btrfs roots. | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rescueos loads a rootfs and kernel to RAM and then starts it there | 15:03 |
| KotCzarny | whole boot linux with initrd | 15:03 |
| KotCzarny | much faster and less wear to the device | 15:04 |
| KotCzarny | and once you learn the basics you can try on n900 | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~rescueos | 15:05 |
| infobot | rumour has it, rescueos is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no initrd involved in rescueOS either, afaik | 15:05 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | DocScrutinizer05: Yes, but the rootfs is specified to the flasher-3.5 by -n initrd. So what format is it? | 15:05 |
| Maxdamantus | There is an initrd in rescueOS | 15:05 |
| Maxdamantus | the entire thing is intended to be loaded as an initrd. | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no idea | 15:06 |
| Maxdamantus | ../maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2/flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0" | 15:06 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Yes, exactly. | 15:06 |
| Maxdamantus | That's my commandline for loading rescueOS. | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ | 15:06 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | So what is exactly initrd.img? What kind of image? | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess it's a RAM image | 15:07 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Created with that cpio? | 15:07 |
| Maxdamantus | rescue/initrd.img: Linux Compressed ROM File System data, little endian size 5701632 version #2 sorted_dirs CRC 0x8d9cb614, edition 0, 3083 blocks, 759 files | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh wait, yes, maybe rescueOS actually uses initrd format to let flasher (and bootloader) load the image into RAM | 15:08 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Maxdamantus: Thanks. Now how to actually create it? | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ | 15:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | isn't it created there too? | 15:09 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Don't know. I can't look right now, since I am at work and our network does not allow opening that page. :( | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly why do you want an initrd image? | 15:10 |
| KotCzarny | 'no idea but i must talk' | 15:10 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | I just thought I could try a different OS by using the same method Rescue OS uses. | 15:10 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | KotCzarny: ? | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | get a kernel with the needed filesystems built monolithic, and forget about initrd | 15:10 |
| KotCzarny | Enrico_Menotti_: wasnt for you. but i suggest you to just google some 'linux ramdisk howto or tutorial' | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd really suggest you "try a different OS by using" the uSD | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and uBoot to boot it | 15:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't want to load your image of the OS to test via flasher on each boot | 15:12 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | DocScrutinizer05: You think it may ruin the device? | 15:12 |
| NIN101 | https://github.com/NIN101/N900_RescueOS/blob/master/howtocreate https://github.com/NIN101/N900_RescueOS/blob/master/HACKING | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and creating the thing on uSD is a few magnitudes simpler than packing it into a (size limited) ramdisk | 15:13 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | NIN101: Welcome! | 15:13 |
| NIN101 | hi | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti_: no, I think you're suffering an XY problem | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~xy | 15:14 |
| infobot | from memory, xy is The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal | 15:14 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | :) | 15:15 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | The fact is that I don't want to extract the sd card continuously from the device and insert it into my computer. | 15:15 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | I fear to phisically ruin the computer, which would be much worse than ruining the device! | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why would you? | 15:15 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | DocScrutinizer05: What, extracting the sd card or ruining the slot in the computer? | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can write to uSD in N900, e.g. via scp/sftp | 15:16 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Ah, you mean booting maemo and use ssh? | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:16 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | Ok, yes, didn't think of. | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let me put it this way: why remove uSD from one PC to insert it into another PC | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if you're afraid of ruining your computer, I strongly suggest you use a USB cardreader instead | 15:20 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | DocScrutinizer05: Yes, I understood. I didn't think about this way to transfer files from my computer to the sd card. (I mean, with ssh.) | 15:22 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | NIN101: Ok, the kinks you provided are exactly what I was looking for. Many thanks. I will read the howto instructions carefully. | 15:24 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | *links | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please understand that rescueOS & initrd are loaded to RAM by flasher and bootloader | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the will vanish on next power cycle | 15:25 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | DocScrutinizer05: Yes that's clear to me. | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can't flash a initrd to persistent storage | 15:26 |
| Enrico_Menotti_ | No problem - it's just for testing purposes. | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on N900, without *massive* modifications to bootloader | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also please understand that RAM size is limiting the size of any such initrd/ramdisk, obviously | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the ramdisk in turn is reducing the size of RAM available to the system | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so e.g. you can only have a 64MB ramdisk if you want to have a 192MB RAM for the system in that ramdisk | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not like N900 has RAM in abundance | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on uSD otoh your rootfs size is virtually unlimited | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you can use ext3 | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uBoot knows ext3 booting afaik | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | powerkernel too | 15:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | just install uBoot under maemo, and add config files pointing to your stuff on uSD, so on next boot you choose in uBoot menu which of maemo or your own system on uSD you want to boot to | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depending on cmdline and kernel 'pointer' in uBoot you could even boot maemo's powerkernel from NAND and still have rootfs pointing to uSD | 15:48 |
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| Wizzup | win 64 | 16:11 |
| Wizzup | oops. | 16:11 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | https://duckduckgo.com/country.json maybe useful for anyone requiring geolocation for a maemo application | 19:25 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I wonder if they plan to offer more stuff like that | 19:26 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Seems my sd card is dead. It is not mounted, neither recognised, from both my Mac and my N900. Does anybody have an idea for checking whether the card is physically dead or it is just a software problem? | 20:30 |
| KotCzarny | dmesg | 20:30 |
| Enrico_Menotti | I tried it on the Mac. It shows a lot of things - is there anything particular I should look for? | 20:31 |
| KotCzarny | if it's inserted and kernel announces it's capacity and reads anything | 20:31 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I will try again. | 20:31 |
| KotCzarny | if you nuked partition table it would behave as unformatted with no usable space | 20:32 |
| KotCzarny | does n900 have 'initalize/format sdcard' somewhere in settings? | 20:32 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Right now the card is in my Mac and I've run dmesg. What if I upload the log on some website, so you may have a look at it? - But I don't want to disturb you too much. Just if you wish to. | 20:36 |
| Enrico_Menotti | As far as I can see, nothing in the output references my sd card. Maybe better buy another one. | 20:45 |
| KotCzarny | go for samsung evo + or pro | 20:45 |
| KotCzarny | avoid nonames/fakes/kingston etc | 20:46 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Well, I have here at hand a Mediaworld store. I will take what they have - this one is a SanDisk. | 20:46 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Wait, wait, suddendly something happened! I estracted the card and the Mac complains I didn't eject it! | 20:47 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Let me try again. | 20:47 |
| Enrico_Menotti | I really don't know what happened. Now the card's alive again. I found in my thrash many files, among them the zImage of Rescue OS kernel, and the related initrd.img, and another file I put on the card a few weeks ago. But also many other files. | 20:50 |
| Enrico_Menotti | They seem to be other versions of the same files. God knows how they got to the thrash on my Mac. | 20:50 |
| KotCzarny | corrupted fs that got fscked? | 20:51 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Sorry, what's fscked? | 20:51 |
| KotCzarny | fsck == filesystem check util | 20:52 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ok. | 20:52 |
| Enrico_Menotti | The strange thing is that now on the card I still find the files I put on it a few weeks ago. | 20:52 |
| Enrico_Menotti | But I'm happy it's alive again. I will put it back on the N900 and see what happens. | 20:53 |
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| Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I had to try a few things. Among them I downloaded a card formatter from sdcard.org, on my Mac. This successfully reformatted the card (my Mac wasn't able to do that with high-level utilities). Now the card's back in the N900 and it seems to work. | 21:16 |
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| dreamer | ohai. got redirected here from #maemo-ssu .. even though it's about installing cssu | 21:39 |
| KotCzarny | ~cssu | 21:39 |
| infobot | cssu is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) | 21:39 |
| dreamer | I'm getting a whole bunch of dependency problems on trying to install the cssu update. mostly busybox and modest-'..' localization stuff (and whole bunch of others). not sure how I can install any of these atm. how should I proceed? | 21:40 |
| KotCzarny | did you follow steps outlined on the wiki or skipped some of them? | 21:40 |
| dreamer | I followed the steps | 21:41 |
| dreamer | from: https://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU#Installation | 21:41 |
| KotCzarny | sometimes it helps to uninstall offending packages and reinstall them after upgrade | 21:41 |
| KotCzarny | really helps saving sanity and time | 21:41 |
| dreamer | I'm starting from a clean device | 21:42 |
| dreamer | that is on 21.2011.38-1 | 21:42 |
| dreamer | with latest power kernel | 21:42 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I am trying to format the sd card on the N900 as ext3. I have rootsh installed. Also openSSH server. I ssh'd to the N900 as root. I think I have a root shell. I tried to issue "mkfs", but it is not found. If I try "sudo mkfs" I get "root is not in sudoers file". I had a look over maemo.org and found something about sudser, but the download from Maemo's application manager does not work. | 21:42 |
| Enrico_Menotti | So first: is mkfs a standard tool in Maemo? | 21:43 |
| KotCzarny | Enrico_Menotti: type mkfs then press tab two times | 21:44 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ok. | 21:44 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ah, sorry. | 21:44 |
| Enrico_Menotti | I was following some instructions over the Internet which probably are not for this version of the OS. | 21:45 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Maybe it's time for dinner. Better I think. :) | 21:45 |
| KotCzarny | dreamer: try pastebin with your error | 21:45 |
| dreamer | KotCzarny: eh. how do I do that from the device? | 21:46 |
| dreamer | this is in the Problems tab in HAM | 21:46 |
| KotCzarny | copypaste into file, then curl --upload-file somefile http://transfer.sh | 21:46 |
| dreamer | you can't select any text in HAM | 21:46 |
| KotCzarny | no 'save log' button? | 21:47 |
| dreamer | no | 21:47 |
| dreamer | 'Application packages missing:' and then a shitload of stuff | 21:47 |
| KotCzarny | maybe you need old nokia mirrors, what are the missing packages? name few of them | 21:48 |
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| dreamer | KotCzarny: I added those mirrors already | 21:49 |
| KotCzarny | or make a screenshot, i think it was shift-fn-s or something | 21:49 |
| KotCzarny | ctrl-shift-p | 21:49 |
| dreamer | ok | 21:50 |
| dreamer | I'll try :) | 21:50 |
| KotCzarny | it gets saved in mydocs/.images/screenshots (or n900/images/screenshots in file browser) | 21:51 |
| dreamer | among the packages: busybox, modest-* stuff, osso-* stuff, upstart, system-services, and some other random things | 21:51 |
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| KotCzarny | btw. you didnt enable extras-testing or extras-devel, did you? | 21:52 |
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| dreamer | KotCzarny: http://imgur.com/a/JvKhE | 21:56 |
| dreamer | KotCzarny: nope | 21:56 |
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| dreamer | just the nokia mirrors | 21:56 |
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| KotCzarny | weird | 22:01 |
| KotCzarny | as a workaround, try installing plain cssu first? | 22:02 |
| dreamer | how do you mean? | 22:02 |
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| KotCzarny | because you are trying to install cssu-thumb | 22:02 |
| KotCzarny | install cssu-stable | 22:02 |
| dreamer | I think that's the default now. I just clicked on the stable link from the maemo browser: https://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 22:03 |
| dreamer | "Stable_one-click-install" | 22:03 |
| KotCzarny | http://i.imgur.com/aA4esju.png | 22:03 |
| KotCzarny | clearly states you are installing cssu-thumb | 22:03 |
| dreamer | sure, but I clearly just pressed this one button | 22:03 |
| dreamer | like I said: maybe this is the default now? | 22:03 |
| dreamer | I have no idea. I didn't specify the thumb version anywhere | 22:04 |
| KotCzarny | huh | 22:04 |
| dreamer | like I said, I just pressed the 'Stable_one-click-install' link. nothing else | 22:04 |
| KotCzarny | http://repository.maemo.org/community/community-fremantle.install this says plain cssu | 22:04 |
| KotCzarny | unless someone messed something | 22:05 |
| KotCzarny | but as i've said, package manager says you are installing cssu-thumb )which isnt bad idea in itself) | 22:05 |
| dreamer | I have no idea man | 22:05 |
| dreamer | maybe I should start from scratch >_< | 22:06 |
| dreamer | (although seriously. this is a completely scratch installation from today) | 22:06 |
| KotCzarny | what does apt-cache policy community-ssu-enabler | 22:06 |
| KotCzarny | say? | 22:06 |
| dreamer | looks like 0.7-5-thumb0 is selected (with *** in front) | 22:07 |
| KotCzarny | but what repo it points to | 22:07 |
| dreamer | that's the one that is installed | 22:07 |
| dreamer | maemo.merlin1991.at | 22:07 |
| KotCzarny | since you are not far in the install, i would suggest you reflashing and repeating. because it really looks like something misconfigured | 22:12 |
| KotCzarny | and cssu enabler in stable repo isnt changed since june 2016 | 22:12 |
| KotCzarny | though.. | 22:13 |
| KotCzarny | and that busybox dependency is solved in cssu-testing | 22:14 |
| KotCzarny | so are you sure you didnt click them all? | 22:14 |
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| dreamer | KotCzarny: all? no sure it was just testing | 22:42 |
| dreamer | but yeah I'll reflash :/ | 22:42 |
| KotCzarny | you can also just reclick the banner | 22:42 |
| KotCzarny | for a quick test (cssu-stable one) | 22:42 |
| dreamer | no, that didn't work, because it's already installed | 22:42 |
| dreamer | and it's no longer in the app-menu either | 22:43 |
| KotCzarny | its not, you have cssu-thumb enabler installed | 22:43 |
| dreamer | well I'm telling you it didn't work | 22:43 |
| dreamer | it said it was already installed | 22:43 |
| KotCzarny | mkay | 22:43 |
| KotCzarny | you might also wait for cssu guys to show up too | 22:44 |
| KotCzarny | if you dont want to reflash | 22:44 |
| dreamer | already reflashing :P | 22:45 |
| dreamer | although now I'm not sure which one to use. I have 2 .bin files: RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin and AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin | 22:45 |
| KotCzarny | ~flashing | 22:46 |
| infobot | maemo-flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing | 22:46 |
| dreamer | those links are pretty useless | 22:47 |
| KotCzarny | see the tgz+sudo line | 22:47 |
| KotCzarny | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz | 22:47 |
| KotCzarny | download it and unpack | 22:47 |
| KotCzarny | then run the script inside | 22:47 |
| KotCzarny | it will download and run what it needs | 22:47 |
| dreamer | I'm using 0xFFFF | 22:48 |
| KotCzarny | then see the script inside to see which files to download and in which order to flash | 22:49 |
| dreamer | I have the same 'combined' image mentioned in that script | 22:49 |
| dreamer | ok, flashed | 22:51 |
| dreamer | will go through installing the nokia mirrors again | 22:51 |
| KotCzarny | try writing somewhere what exactly you do | 22:52 |
| KotCzarny | in steps | 22:52 |
| KotCzarny | in some .txt file | 22:52 |
| dreamer | :) | 22:52 |
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| dreamer | oh, I now see bunch of updates in HAM. weren't there before | 22:59 |
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| dreamer | will run those first before moving to cssu | 22:59 |
| KotCzarny | yes | 23:00 |
| dreamer | oh. bunch of conflicts there | 23:00 |
| dreamer | libqt4 stuff | 23:00 |
| KotCzarny | what needs it? | 23:01 |
| dreamer | everything conflicting with everything | 23:01 |
| KotCzarny | what did you do before that? | 23:02 |
| dreamer | install the stable cssu | 23:02 |
| dreamer | just the repos and enabler package | 23:02 |
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| dreamer | trying the cssu install again | 23:03 |
| dreamer | doesn't give the same b0rk as before though | 23:03 |
| dreamer | maybe I used that other .bin I had to flash it | 23:03 |
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| dreamer | ok it's installing cssu | 23:05 |
| dreamer | maybe those qt dependencies are coming from there | 23:05 |
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| KotCzarny | ham in stock is slow, so it might be that you didnt wait for updates to show up | 23:06 |
| dreamer | no I think they where there | 23:07 |
| dreamer | my dependency issues where with busybox and other stuff right | 23:07 |
| dreamer | nothing libqt | 23:07 |
| KotCzarny | as i've said, it looked like you've clicked on cssu-thumb before | 23:08 |
| dreamer | there is no cssu-thumb on that page | 23:08 |
| dreamer | STABLE was the one I clicked on | 23:08 |
| dreamer | there is only 'stable' or 'testing' | 23:08 |
| dreamer | no 'thumb' | 23:08 |
| dreamer | ok, it rebooted | 23:08 |
| dreamer | *fingers crossed* | 23:08 |
| dreamer | ok, no updates now. so cssu must've taken care of the qt stuff | 23:09 |
| dreamer | ok. I think it's good now. will proceed with power kernel and my backup | 23:10 |
| KotCzarny | i still recommend you to install cssu-thumb | 23:10 |
| KotCzarny | it frees few megs of ram in the system | 23:10 |
| dreamer | it's supposed to be smaller/faster/better/stronger right? | 23:10 |
| KotCzarny | smaller, yes | 23:10 |
| KotCzarny | and faster becuase of less swapping | 23:10 |
| dreamer | ah, but it's based on testing | 23:11 |
| dreamer | and patches the kernel. should I wait installing the powerkernel? or it comes with its own power-kernel? | 23:11 |
| dreamer | I vaguely remember the thumb install not giving that many improvements | 23:11 |
| dreamer | in my experience | 23:12 |
| dreamer | I can always move to thumb later right? | 23:12 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 23:12 |
| dreamer | yeah atm I just need this thing functional :) | 23:12 |
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| dreamer | KotCzarny: ok just ran updates. and now it wants to install cssu thumb .. | 23:33 |
| dreamer | and all that qt stuff again | 23:33 |
| dreamer | hmmm. I'm not guessing something: that my backup contains these packages in the list | 23:33 |
| dreamer | so it wants to install them from there | 23:33 |
| dreamer | derp | 23:33 |
| dreamer | ok how to curate this list .. | 23:34 |
| dreamer | and more importantly: how to get rid of this stuff | 23:35 |
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| Sicelo | i also never really saw much improvement with thumb on my device, but i'm happy with it nonetheless | 23:43 |
| Enrico_Menotti | Ehm... sorry, I'd need some more help. I'm trying to copy the Debian system image over the sd card, but I get errors about cp being unable to create symlinks. | 23:43 |
| dreamer | heuhm. unable to install catorize. no clue why .. | 23:48 |
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