IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2017-03-06

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sixwheeledbeastyep thx, I forget that m.o is broken for HTTPS everywhere01:13
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DocScrutinizer05is it?02:15
DocScrutinizer05oh, redirects to login, weird02:17
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DocScrutinizer05and login redirects to at last then - after authenticating - you could use https://maemo.org02:19
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xeswell, old (2012) behavior was that* was redirected to (???!). Now actually, midgard forces you to login once you use https09:55
xessince that old redirect has been removed09:56
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DocScrutinizer05funny stuff is HTTPS works as supposed once you logged in12:09
DocScrutinizer05with the recent brainfuck mandatory https in browsers, I wonder how many disgruntled users think they are not allowed to browse anymore, without authenticating12:12
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* DocScrutinizer05 also idly wonders what's the correct time spam for black ribbons and condolences12:15
DocScrutinizer05I'm absolutely not the right person to judge on such stiff, as you cna see easily12:16
DocScrutinizer05"stuff", and "can"12:17
DocScrutinizer05thanks to missing publication date I can't even tell how long that is there already12:18
DocScrutinizer05seems to be since around 2016-11-16 or sth12:25
DocScrutinizer05I _think_ 4 months of condolences is enough12:26
DocScrutinizer05@council: ^^^ ?12:27
DocScrutinizer05ohmy sorry! time SPAN, not time spam12:29
* DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders if midgard actually could roll back to page revision 1.29 (from 1.30)12:31
DocScrutinizer05pretty sure that not: but
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DocScrutinizer05midgard, my ass. You never know what's fucked up by design, what by implementation, what by maemo addons, and what by database corruption and bitrot13:04
DocScrutinizer05which boils down to a simple constant W*T*F??!??13:06
DocScrutinizer05but of course
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ravelofreemangordon, Wizzup: what are the open questions regarding porting Maemo?17:49
raveloI just read  the "getting organized" thread again17:50
raveloit's all still quite confusing17:50
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raveloI don't see the ultimate goal17:51
raveloFor me the goal would be like:17:54
ravelousing "standard linux" (debian, devuan)17:54
raveloport the best applications that are easy to port from Maemo to standard linux17:54
raveloreimplement pieces of software that are too difficult to port17:55
ravelo-> this should give a nice mobile OS in the long run17:55
raveloMaybe it would also be nice to compare with other mobile Linux - Distros18:01
raveloI found the following: QtMoko, SHR, QuantumSTEP, OpenSUSE (according to, maybe there are more?18:03
raveloplease comment...18:03
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freemangordonravelo: the "ultimate goal" is to have as much as possible functionality from fremantle running on top of some recent distro, I don;t think such a goal needs anything written to be clear :)19:02
freemangordonand no, porting pieces from here and there won;t give us the expected result - we need everything possible ported - h-d - hh, mce, dsme, etc, etc19:03
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MoeIcenowyfreemangordon: how's the progress now? ;-)19:29
freemangordonMoeIcenowy: I am on hildon-home and its dependencies, right now trying to port libhildonfm19:30
freemangordonthis is gtk2 port ofc, for gtk3 see the relevant thread on TMO :)19:30
freemangordonunfortunately I am very short on spare time recently so the progress is not that fast as one would like to be, but :)19:31
freemangordonMoeIcenowy: and ofc, it can;t be any faster with guys and girls only asking for progress, without actually helping on the development part :p19:34
bencohsorry about that, btw ;)19:36
bencohfreemangordon: how did it go with the osso-bookmark-engine debian package? did it work properly?19:37
* freemangordon is sorry for his mood, he is a little sick and not in the best condition19:37
freemangordonbencoh: yes19:37
bencohoh, cool then19:37
freemangordonwith some tweaks for scratchbox19:37
bencohoh? strange, since I built it on sb19:37
freemangordonno idea, it failed here19:38
bencohdifferent sb version I suppose19:38
bencohor different automake/autoconf version maybe19:38
freemangordoncould be19:40
bencohwell I'll try and keep those changes in mind next time :)19:40
freemangordonbencoh: though, I've never seen libtool used in makefile :)19:40
freemangordonwait, automake/autoconf?19:40
bencoherr nevermind, there is no autotools there19:40
freemangordonautofoo is not used by your packaging19:41
bencohI was referring to libtool actually :)19:41
bencohand, exactly ... autotools usually abstract all those libtool calls, meaning we never have to bother with it19:41
bencohand other makefile-based maemo packages just don't use libtool, meaning you have to hardcode lib names and stuff like that, which I didn't want to do19:42
freemangordonbut anyway, the one on github compiles in both SB and devuan, so it should be ok19:42
bencohnice :)19:43
bencohcould serve as a base for other osso-* packages then I guess19:43
bencohunless someone at devuan says it's utterly broken :]19:43
bencoh(actually, it is utterly broken per modern devuan standards)19:43
freemangordonthough I still prefer using autofoo to wrap libtool19:43
bencohme too19:44
bencohjust didn't want to add it since it wasn't there in the first place19:44
bencohmaybe I should've :]19:44
freemangordonhow did you decide on whether it was there?19:44
bencohthere was no auto* ( files in repository, so I just went with the flow19:45
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infobotbencoh meant: there was no auto* ( file in repository, so I just went with the flow19:45
infobotbencoh: :)19:45
freemangordonbut ofc, this is RE job, not porting :)19:45
freemangordonno file can appear without we putting it there :)19:46
bencohyeah I was referring to your repository, not to original nokia work :)19:46
bencohwell I'll just go for autotools next time then ;)19:46
bencohmeanwhile I learned some more about libtool that night, so all is fine :)19:46
bencoh(I had forgotten how broken and ugly it can get, then :D)19:47
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Enrico___Please somebody let me know if you can read me - I need to test my client.19:55
mp107Enrico___: I can19:55
Enrico___Thank you.19:55
Enrico___Ok, my question: I have a semi-bricked N900. Thanks to Pali and NIN101, I have booted it with rescue OS from sd card.19:56
Enrico___I am able to access it from my Mac by telnet.19:56
Enrico___And also by graphic interface if I enable mass storage mode.19:57
Enrico___In the latter mode, I can see the MyDocs directory.19:57
Enrico___But by telnet I can't.19:57
Enrico___So where is it?19:57
freemangordonEnrico___: /dev/mmcblkNp119:58
freemangordonwhere N is either 0 or 119:58
Enrico___Ok let me try. Thank you.19:59
freemangordonyou should mount it for it to be visible19:59
freemangordoncheck with sfdisk -l19:59
Enrico___I have mounted it.19:59
Enrico___I find the following directory: /mnt/maemo/20:00
Enrico___Where all maemo seems to be. But no trace of MyDocs.20:00
KotCzarnydo sfdisk -l20:01
KotCzarnymydocs is usually ~28gigabytes big20:01
Enrico___With sfdisk -l I end up with many errors.20:02
KotCzarnytry sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk020:02
KotCzarnyand sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk120:02
KotCzarnyunless you have badblocks which could be the reason of semibrickage20:03
Enrico___Yes I see four partitions.20:03
KotCzarnydo you see one that is ~28gigs big?20:04
Enrico___I think it's the first.20:04
Enrico___It's exactly 28315648 blocks.20:05
KotCzarnyif you type: mount |grep yourpartition, is it mounted?20:05
Enrico___Let me try.20:05
freemangordonEnrico___: what are you trying to achieve?20:06
Enrico___No, I was just looking around and trying to get familiar with the system. I would like to stard Maemo.20:07
freemangordonyou can;t start it from rescueos20:07
Enrico___I am trying to avoid reflashing the device.20:07
freemangordonok, but what for you need rescueos?20:07
Paliif you cannot boot maemo in normal way, then it is broken and you have to flash it20:07
freemangordonunless you know what is broken and how to fix it :)20:08
Enrico___I know that I have messed something in the file structure. I was just cleaning MyDocs from a wrong expansion of some directory.20:08
freemangordonbroken MyDocs should not prevent maemo from booting20:09
Enrico___I know I changed something like the boot.scr file.20:09
Enrico___But I don't remember where it is supposed to be.20:10
enycfreemangordon: may cause ages to complete boot properly, waiting for fsck nad stuff tho =)20:10
Paliif maemo does not boot => reflash device20:10
freemangordonEnrico___: but, as Pali said - you'd better flash it, both rootfs and eMMC20:10
KotCzarnyboot.scr isnt in mydocs?20:10
Palidoing all other things is vasting of time20:10
KotCzarnyunless you have some weird bootloader installed20:10
Enrico___No boot.scr in mydocs. Or better: I think I substituted it with something else, wrong, while trying to install NITDroid.20:11
Enrico___Sorry, I know I am doing quite crazy things, I am just trying to understand.20:12
freemangordonso, what you can do is to flash the kernel only20:12
freemangordonit will replace u-boot20:12
freemangordonbut you will be able to boot to maemo20:12
freemangordonwhere you can reinstal u-boot20:12
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freemangordonwith flashing only the kernel you will not lose anything besides u-boot20:13
Paliif you have already uboot, then you can boot maemo via "run attachboot"20:13
Enrico___But I think Maemo's kernel is ok. If I try from u-boot the first option, boot attached OS, it tries to start.20:13
freemangordonPali: does that work if boot.scr is missing?20:13
Enrico___Then it sits down and after a while it reboots.20:14
freemangordonEnrico___: then you have to flash it, sorry20:14
Enrico___It's not a big problem - I don't have data inside.20:14
Enrico___I am just trying to avoid it if it is not necessary.20:15
freemangordonthen just flash it, boot rootfs and eMMC20:15
Palifirst eMMC and second COMBINED20:15
freemangordonEnrico___: yes, I see, but it doesn;t make much of a sense if there is no data you want to keep20:15
Enrico___And I have a small problem: I reflashed one time from a Windows computer (installing the flasher on my Mac is a problem). It was very easy. But now the Windows doesn't see the device.20:16
Enrico___On the Mac, at a very low level (I think), it appears. Tried the equivalent of lsusb (it's a quite complicated command on a Mac). And the device appears.20:16
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Enrico___Now I have to understand if it is worth trying to install the flasher-3.5 on the Mac (I have some indications on how to do that, but it is complicated) and try to flash from there.20:17
Enrico___What do you think about this?20:19
KotCzarnyget some cheap old linux laptop20:22
KotCzarnywith working usb ports20:22
Enrico___It's an idea. But anyway, if the device is seen by lsusb it should be possible to flash it, right?20:23
KotCzarnydepends on which stage it is, if it started to boot (time frame is <0.5s) it will change id20:24
KotCzarnythat's why you start flasher first, then connect device which was fully powered off20:24
Enrico___Yes, but I am able to enter update mode by holding u and starting the device. I think it enters correctly: I see the usb icon on the top right.20:26
Enrico___I just don't understand why Win doesn't see it anymore and was wondering whether it be sufficient for the Mac (or for a Linux OS) to see it at low level.20:26
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infobotlazyflashing is, like,
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DocScrutinizer05for linux. And yes, when you see device in lsusb and you have a working flasher and image, it is possible to reflash N90020:47
DocScrutinizer05usually, except for some very strange fringe cases20:48
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Palibecause win and mac has slow usb enumeration which depends on couple of factors21:02
Paliwhen I was testing speed of enumeration I saw that only libusb0.1 on linux is usable for userspace...21:02
KotCzarnypali, does holding u during boot stops the device into update mode?21:02
Palionly if host starts enumeration21:03
Paliand needs to do some data transfer21:03
Paliiirc pressing U just extend delay for additional fixed internal21:03
Enrico___Do you mean it's not a good idea to try with the Mac?21:10
KotCzarnycan your mac run linux?21:10
Enrico___I don't know. To me it seems quite a big work to get linux running. I was thinking about trying the flasher on the Mac, just to see if it sees the device.21:11
Enrico___The problem is installing the flasher. It's not that easy.21:11
freemangordonEnrico___: not installing, but booting from live cd21:12
freemangordonor flash drive21:12
Enrico___May you suggest a Linux distribution suitable for this? I admit I never really used Linux.21:12
* freemangordon hides :)21:13
freemangordonEnrico___: every distro will do the job21:13
freemangordonas long as it boots21:13
Enrico___Ok, so how do I get it? Is it available from the Internet?21:13
Enrico___Sorry for silly questions, I'm a newbie to this.21:14
freemangordonyep, got it21:14
DocScrutinizer05what's the problem with installing mac flasher?21:14
DocScrutinizer05did apple introduce friggin app signatures meanwhile?21:15
Enrico___The problem is that the program, in older Macs, used to go to /usr/lib/21:15
freemangordonEnrico___: also, see the not at the lower right corner re macs21:15
Enrico___Now on my El Capitan OS /usr/lib is protected by System Integrity Protection.21:16
DocScrutinizer05aah that's how they call that crap21:16
Enrico___freemangordon: thanks! I will have a look at it!21:16
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: the problem is the fruit :)21:16
freemangordonEnrico___: can't you select another installation destination21:16
DocScrutinizer05on mac?21:17
freemangordonwhy not?21:17
KotCzarnyor just change harddrive temporarily?21:17
Enrico___I cannot from the installer.21:17
freemangordonnever touched it21:17
DocScrutinizer05no idea21:17
Enrico___The installer just does not work.21:17
Enrico___But I can extract the files.21:17
freemangordoncan't you just extract the files?21:17
Enrico___A man suggested me how to do that on stackexchange.21:17
DocScrutinizer05I guess you doubleclick the flasher.blabla file and it starts installing21:17
freemangordonok, then, place the binay in /usr/local/lib or whatever suitable21:18
freemangordonwhich is not crap protected21:18
Enrico___Ok, I was just wondering about this solution.21:18
Enrico___Do you think that /usr/local/lib would let the flasher work?21:18
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: I *guess* that security crap also will stop access to USB21:18
freemangordonI see no reason why not, but keep in mind I have never ever touched mac21:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: makes sense21:19
freemangordonEnrico___: what I would sugges is - start downloadin ubuntu iso, while it is downloading, try to extract and run flasher in /usr/local/lib21:20
Enrico___or /usr/local/bin?21:20
freemangordonif you fail, write that iso on dvd and boot from it21:20
Enrico___There's an answer on stackexchange about SIP which mentions this location.21:21
freemangordonEnrico___: can't help, sorry, you have to try21:21
freemangordonhmm, "you can turn SIP off."21:23
freemangordon"Currently this requires rebooting into recovery mode and running the command csrutil disable"21:23
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: not that bad ^^^21:23
ravelofreemangordon, how do i start porting? I know there is a long way to go...21:26
DocScrutinizer05just read it21:27
DocScrutinizer05so they have an 'open mode' ;-P21:27
freemangordonravelo: install devuan under a VM, then try to build and run hildon-desktop from fremantle-gtk2 repo on github21:27
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: but it really seems to be open21:27
Enrico___I would prefer the other alternatives than turning SIP off...21:27
DocScrutinizer05yeah, please don't21:27
freemangordonEnrico___: boot ubuntu then, if installing in /usr/local/bin does not work21:28
DocScrutinizer05aiui you could "install" the flasher to any dir you like, and run it there, via sudo21:28
ravelofreemangordon, actually sounds quite simple21:28
freemangordonravelo: keep in mind you should use "gtk2" or "upstream branches21:28
DocScrutinizer05sorry, afk21:29
freemangordonravelo: it is, the problem is  there are a piles of packages you have to build and install21:29
freemangordon*a pile21:29
freemangordonwe're waiting wor Wizzup/parazyd to create a repo on devuan servers with debs, but until then...21:30
raveloActually there still should be a wiki page about that21:30
ravelocurrently there are only those threads on tmo21:30
freemangordonravelo: agree, but that means somebody should do it :)21:30
freemangordonand I can;t both port and document and test and...21:31
freemangordonravelo: feel free to write wiki page while you're trying to build h-d and hildon-status-menu21:31
freemangordonravelo: keep in mind hildon-thumbnail and libhildonfm are WIP ATM21:32
freemangordonall other packages should be more or less ready, though I remember a guys having some problems a couple of weeks ago21:33
freemangordon*a guy21:33
freemangordonravelo: also, I am using devuan x64, I'd recommend you to use the same as it increases the chances to catch some bugs that will not appear on 32bits21:34
freemangordonNeKit: do you remember what clutter env var needs to be set so hildon-desktop to start normally?21:35
freemangordoncool :). could you make a pull request for a modified h-d startup script?21:35
ravelofreemangordon, sry for on emore noob question. currently maemo sits on top of some debian, tightly integrated. apt-get is used to install packages. We want to port one application after another to Devuan, so the original maemo-package manager is no more used, at least at the beginning?21:37
freemangordonravelo: what is that original maemo package manager? ham?21:38
ravelohmm, i don't know21:38
freemangordonyou mean hildon-application-manager UI?21:38
freemangordonas apt-get works ok in both maemo and devuan21:39
freemangordonNeKit: thanks21:39
freemangordonNeKit: hmm, wait, you don;t have a way to test that, right? you're using arch?21:40
freemangordonravelo: in short - you build packages with dpkg-buildpackage, install with dpkg -i. that works in exactly the same way both under maemo and devuan21:41
NeKityes, I can set up Devuan chroot though so I would be more useful, but testing init scripts will be hard without LXC, for example21:42
freemangordonNeKit: well, if you're interested, just install a VM21:42
freemangordonit is easy and native IMO21:43
NeKityou mean KVM on ARM?21:43
NeKitor on desktop?21:43
Wizzup20:30 < freemangordon> we're waiting wor Wizzup/parazyd to create a repo on devuan servers with debs, but until then...21:43
freemangordonon desktop21:43
Wizzupthere's still progress, but I'm still somewhat block on amprolla. I can do more work on this coming week(end)21:44
freemangordonWizzup: ok, I was just explaining the situation :)21:44
freemangordonNeKit: all the development I've done so far is under VMWare x64 devuan on my desktop21:44
Wizzupfreemangordon: ack, just elaborating as well :)21:45
freemangordonno need for arm at that point, unless you want to feel it :)21:45
freemangordonalso, I don;t want to restrict maemo to ARM only, having intel as a target is a good option IMO21:45
freemangordonravelo: also, please, if you see something broken (not compiling, installing, dependencies are missing, does not work), please raise an issue on github and eventually make a pull request with a fix21:47
NeKit<s>I have Intel with libhybris to try though</s>21:47
freemangordonhow's clutter behaving with libhybris? you said you should tweak some stuff, right?21:48
freemangordons/should/had to/21:49
infobotfreemangordon meant: how's clutter behaving with libhybris? you said you had to tweak some stuff, right?21:49
NeKitwith latest approach the problem I had is that hildon-desktop first starts in 800x600(?) window and then resizes to fullscreen21:52
freemangordonNeKit: window? thats weird21:56
freemangordonthat might be the default resolution for clutter_stage21:56
freemangordonor maybe it is matchbox default resolution21:58
freemangordonthough I don;t see such effect here21:59
NeKitpart of clutter/cogl initialization, right21:59
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ravelofreemangordon, ok22:08
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