IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2017-02-03

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DocScrutinizer05Wizzup_: It's OK, iirc the guys in charge at devuan already said they need to set up some new bits to keep maemo repo separate from the automatism that merges everything into devuan, or somesuch. So they just should not take the additional effort to move the fremantle repo to this config, rather they could nuke fremantle repo and set up a new config for the maemo separate repo00:16
Wizzup_OK - I'm waiting for them to tell me 'GO' though00:17
Wizzup_(I have some other work to do for another foss proj anyway)00:17
DocScrutinizer05please let them know you don't want the new repo being called fremantle!00:18
DocScrutinizer05it would be somewhat inpolite to let them set up everything with name "fremantle" and then to ask for a renaming00:19
Wizzup_parazyd: can you do that^ ?00:21
how900what name should it be Wizzup_ ?00:21
parazydWizzup_: iirc the interface should allow you to change it00:21
parazydhow900: o/00:21
how900parazyd: found your present?00:22
Wizzup_parazyd: let me try.00:22
how900on your desk00:22
parazydhow900: when? wasn't bridging today00:22
parazydalso wasn't00:22
parazydnow i'm curious00:22
Wizzup_DocScrutinizer05: 'maemo' then?00:22
how900yeah I know :P00:22
Wizzup_freemangordon: ^^^00:22
Wizzup_Just going to rename to 'maemo'00:26
DocScrutinizer05maemo*, yes. I have no strong notion about e.g. maemo5, or even maemo-devuan, or maemo-fremantle or whatever you like. As long as googling for maemo will reveal it00:26
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Wizzup_I'll go for maemo00:27
parazydremember to change your git origins :p00:27
Wizzup_yeah, sure :)00:27
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DocScrutinizer05just on a sidenote, nothing relevant for public in there00:59
parazydsoon(TM) :001:02
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parazydnobody of the chiefs is giving signs of life on #devuan yet...01:03
* Wizzup_ going to bed01:11
sixwheeledbeastMaemo makes sense to me for the group name.01:16
parazydand as DocScrutinizer05 says, it will be easier for people to find it by googling01:17
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DocScrutinizer05also fre_E_mantle is a blacklisted term and never must get used seriously in maemo context, for a number of reasons: already too many typos in existing docs that actually meant 'fremantle', and
Wizzup_lol @ ud01:32
infoboti guess codenames is buzz (1.1), rex (1.2), bo (1.3), hamm (2.0), slink (2.1), potato (2.2),  Woody=Stable (3.0) Sarge=Testing Unstable=Sid, or see tsc_codenames for those of the technical support crews01:33
DocScrutinizer05~#maemo codenames is
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0501:34
infoboti heard codenames is
* DocScrutinizer05 notices that PR1.0 to PR1.3.1 all are 'Maemo5.0" - this gives inspiration for thoughts01:36
DocScrutinizer05what's about Maemo5.2 for example?01:37
DocScrutinizer05...unless the wiki is wrong01:37
DocScrutinizer05I'd think CSSU might qualify for "Maemo5.1" meanwhile ;-)01:38
DocScrutinizer05with mandatory glibs and kernel update the latest01:39
DocScrutinizer05btw - for the bot lesson of today:01:42
DocScrutinizer05~_default codenames01:42
infoboti guess codenames is buzz (1.1), rex (1.2), bo (1.3), hamm (2.0), slink (2.1), potato (2.2),  Woody=Stable (3.0) Sarge=Testing Unstable=Sid, or see tsc_codenames for those of the technical support crews01:42
DocScrutinizer05~+chanset #maemo factoidSearch01:43
infobotfactoidSearch for #maemo is '$chan _default'01:43
DocScrutinizer05~+chanset #neo900 factoidSearch01:44
infobotfactoidSearch for #neo900 is '$chan #maemo _default'01:44
DocScrutinizer05~+chanset #maemo-ssu factoidSearch01:45
infobotfactoidSearch for #maemo-ssu is '$chan #maemo _default'01:45
Juestoand yes fremantle is a australian city01:52
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DocScrutinizer05it's also last name of a dozen known persons, a wind, and whatnot else02:00
DocScrutinizer05~wiki fremantle02:01
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{About||the suburb|Fremantle (suburb)|other uses|Fremantle (disambiguation)}} {{Use Australian English|date=October 2012}} {{Use dmy dates|date=October 2012}} {{Infobox Australian place | type = city | name = Fremantle | city = Perth | state = wa | image = Aerial view of Fremantle.JPG | caption = Aerial view of Fremantle | latd = 32 | latm = 03 | lats = 25 | longd = 115 | longm = ...02:01
DocScrutinizer05~wiki fremantle (disambiguation)02:02
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Fremantle' is a city in Western Australia. 'Fremantle' may also refer to: {{TOC right}} * Places related to Fremantle, the port city of Perth, the capital of Western Australia, Australia ** Division of Fremantle, a federal division of the Australian House of Representatives ** Electoral district of Fremantle, a state lower house electoral district ** Fremantle ...02:02
DocScrutinizer05parazyd: ((soon)) was about neo900, and it won't show anything public soon, we use it as internal trac02:05
Juestowhy/what for?02:05
DocScrutinizer05for fun, just for fun02:06
DocScrutinizer05sorry, what's been the question?02:06
Juestoabout neo900 what you said above02:07
DocScrutinizer05nevermind, it been addressed to parazyd02:07
DocScrutinizer05particularly a reply to [2017-02-03 Fri 00:02:54] <parazyd> soon(TM) :002:11
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DocScrutinizer05warfare: juiceme:  Registry Expiry Date: 2017-02-07T16:26:32Z02:29
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DocScrutinizer05whois maemo.org02:29
DocScrutinizer05btw musing about a CNAME whatever.devuan.org02:56
DocScrutinizer05maybe a "3xx permanently moved" is smarter though02:57
DocScrutinizer05particularly since aiui it can handle not only (sub)domains but actually pathnames like
sixwheeledbeastAny future update should be PRx.x not Maemo5.x IMO.03:09
sixwheeledbeastAlso go Dockers ;)03:09
MaxdamantusJust make an HTML page with a frameset that has the devuan git in one of the frames.03:27
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: teh question is what actually establishes a new minor revision03:27
DocScrutinizer05a port of fremantle to devuan upstream (for whatever that means) rather justifies a new major revision like maemo7 than a keeping of major.minor revision at 5.0 and just calling it a new PR03:30
MaxdamantusWhat would actually be released?03:32
MaxdamantusA new image to flash to people's phones?03:32
MaxdamantusThat would just be Devuan with some packages installed like hildon-desktop, browserd, etc03:33
Juestothat's the final goal03:55
DocScrutinizer05Juesto: sorry what?04:00
Juestosee above04:02
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DocScrutinizer05no, you07:12
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders how Juesto could know about I final goal DocScrutinizer05 never heard of07:13
DocScrutinizer05and who defined that07:13
DocScrutinizer05and how that's in any way related to the lines posted in here since [2017-02-03 Fri 01:07:07] <Juesto> about neo900 what you said above07:15
* Juesto shrugs07:19
DocScrutinizer05it's a prime number07:19
DocScrutinizer05why didn't we do that earlier?07:21
Juestowhat are you talking about07:21
DocScrutinizer05what are YOU talking about?07:21
DocScrutinizer05wait, maybe you answered to some post I have on /ignore?07:22
DocScrutinizer05ooh indeed, sorry07:23
Juestofeel free to check the logs07:23
Juestodid you?07:23
DocScrutinizer05and no, that's not the goal, a devuan image with some maemo packages on top is vastly pointless regarding *maemo*07:24
DocScrutinizer05I rather think 'the final goal' of any major community activity during the last days was to eventually establish a maemo UX, on a device for which a devuan image exists that could get installed07:29
DocScrutinizer05you won't achive that by throwing a few packages on top of a plain devuan07:29
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: yep, maemo 7 that is07:29
freemangordonat least I add -0m7 to the packages I think are ported so far07:30
freemangordonpackage names that is07:30
freemangordonJuesto: my final goal is a new distro, maemo 5 rebased on top of devuan07:33
freemangordonnot just a couple of packages recompiled against devuan07:34
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MaxdamantusSo you basically want what Ubuntu is to Debian?07:44
Maxdamantusanother system that has to be periodically rebased onto Debian/Devuan?07:44
MaxdamantusSo .. presumably maemo is going to have its own completely independent repository?07:46
Maxdamantusjust like Ubuntu has?07:46
Maxdamantusand supposedly .. someone .. will update it to have the current versions of packages from Debian .. just like Ubuntu does07:46
Maxdamantusand the updates won't get less and less frequent over time?07:47
freemangordonrather no, that is why we are going to put maemo stuff on devuan servers07:47
MaxdamantusHm. In that case it seems like it would just be Devuan with more packages.07:47
Maxdamantuseither with an additional repository, or just the standard repository where the Maemo-specific packages will already live.07:48
* freemangordon is still having his first coffee07:48
freemangordonMaxdamantus: right, this is more correct07:48
MaxdamantusMk, I think Ubuntu puts a lot of effort into its rebasing over Debian.07:49
freemangordonsorry, I am sleepy :)07:49
juicemeDocScrutinizer05, unless I am mistaken warfare has set entry to autorenew.08:00
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freemangordonyeah, something got broken re your network connectivity08:04
freemangordonor it was systemd proviking kernel oops?08:04
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DocScrutinizer05IRC client unsolicited quit09:05
Wizzup_Maxdamantus: more correct is adding packcages to devuan who rebase on debian09:07
DocScrutinizer05as much as I hate systemd, I guess the culprit here either is dbus or some library mismatch09:07
Wizzup_but to another repo09:08
Wizzup_well systemd pushes dbus09:08
Wizzup_anyway. bbl09:08
DocScrutinizer05weird thing: it doesn't look like segfault09:09
DocScrutinizer05maybe ulimit09:09
DocScrutinizer05doesn't linux offer a sort of trap that catches and signals ulimt excursions?09:10
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KotCzarnyi wonder why no one invented OS overlays yet09:11
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DocScrutinizer05gdb is no trap, it's a monitor09:15
KotCzarnyre: naming, freemaemo? ;)09:16
KotCzarnyas in 'freemangordonmaemo' ;)09:16
MaxdamantusWizzup_: sure. At least Devuan has a better chance of providing that maintenance for longer.09:21
Maxdamantusthough .. I'm kind of sceptical tbh09:21
Wizzup_sceptical of what?09:28
Wizzup_we don't have a huge dependency on devuan per se09:28
Wizzup_I am doing the testing/building on debian jessie09:28
Juestomaemo had packages on debian once09:28
Juestothey lasted only one release09:28
DocScrutinizer05aaaaah!  >> If the process continues to consume CPU time, it will be  sent  SIGXCPU  once  per               second  until  the hard limit is reached, at which time it is sent SIGKILL<<09:38
DocScrutinizer05SIGXCPU  - never heard of09:39
Wizzup_is it receiving that signal?09:40
DocScrutinizer05no idea09:41
Maxdamantus20:28:08 < Wizzup_> sceptical of what?09:41
DocScrutinizer05at least now I learned it's #2409:41
MaxdamantusThat Devuan will still be alive in a few years.09:41
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders testing a killall -SIGXCPU konversation09:42
DocScrutinizer05but it's maybe not very likely that SIGXCPU triggered exactly on relogin which been from the daily DSL-reconnect09:43
Wizzup_Maxdamantus: hence my next statement09:43
MaxdamantusRight, my comment was really about the feasibility of distributions that are actual forks of other ones.09:44
Maxdamantuswhether "Maemo" is a bunch of packages in Debian or Devuan isn't that important .. it's probably a bad idea to have it as a fork of one of those systems.09:45
Wizzup_they are not really a fork09:46
Maxdamantus(should've said "would be", to be clear that the direction people seem to be going in seems to be the right one)09:46
Wizzup_they just replace packages they don't want with alternatives09:46
Wizzup_everything else is imported directly from debian09:46
Wizzup_perhaps not even rebuild :)09:46
Wizzup_(I would guess)09:46
DocScrutinizer05anyway :-(( @  man setrlimit|grep -A 10 RLIMIT_AS|grep -B 10 'unlimited.$'09:50
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* DocScrutinizer05 pukes
warfareDocScrutinizer05, juiceme: Yes, is on autorenew. I'd just forget to renew otherwise.09:58
DocScrutinizer05hmm, new thing to me09:58
DocScrutinizer05anyway thanks! :-)09:59
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KotCzarnycoding regatta doesnt look especially good for maemo (most submissions went into mer/sfos)10:02
KotCzarnystill, not bad for a 7 year old OS10:08
KotCzarnycan we settle on 7yo ?10:12
DocScrutinizer05particularly nasty: this F*&$!!CK!NG IRC client doesn't store any settings when quitting abnormally10:16
DocScrutinizer05honestly, what do devels think when they develop such shite?10:17
inzboobs, probably10:18
KotCzarnybooby traps10:18
DocScrutinizer05changing any arbitrary setup demands stopping the cliuent regularly, to not lose it when system goes down for whatever reason?10:18
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DocScrutinizer05I mean, *at least* a "save settings" menu item, pretty please with sugar and cream on top?10:21
sixwheeledbeastWell is it about deciding on a major/minor revision? It seems more like starting a whole new distro from reading the back scroll from my last comment.10:26
sixwheeledbeastThat probably justifies a new name, obviously keeping Maemo due to SEO/copyright benefits. Maybe a new wind codename?10:31
KotCzarnyhow do you call the wind before avalanche?10:32
KotCzarnyor the one that blows continually over the years10:33
sixwheeledbeastavalanche isn't a wind, it's falling rocks....10:35
KotCzarnyyes, but wind can cause avalanche (rocks or snow one)10:35
KotCzarnyfoehn maybe?10:37
KotCzarny(wind from the mountains)10:37
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KotCzarnyalso written fohn or fen10:37
Wizzup_DocScrutinizer05: irssi does that10:37
sixwheeledbeastIn line with Maemo codenames:- Levanto, Maestro, Norte, Ostria, Pali, Pampero... Zephyros10:42
KotCzarnylol, there is a wind named pali?10:42
sixwheeledbeastFoehn seems to be related to Chinook.10:42
sixwheeledbeastAlso Ostria:- A warm southerly wind on the Bulgarian coast10:42
inzWhat about flatus10:44
inzThe funniest wind of them all10:44
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parazydhow900: lovely <315:03
parazydthank you15:03
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freemangordonsixwheeledbeast: never heard that word, where did you get it from?16:51
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KotCzarnywell if doing alphabetical order, next wind should be i-k20:24
KotCzarnyso knik or kona20:24
sixwheeledbeastthere not alphabetical as such hence Mistral and Sirocco20:25
freemangordonsixwheeledbeast: weird. I wonder where this word comes from, it is definitely not slavic20:27
sixwheeledbeastSeem Austrian somehow from searches20:27
sixwheeledbeastNot much information from a quick search20:28
freemangordonand a wind in Bulgaria is called that? ok, could be. if internet says so :)20:28
sixwheeledbeastThe American Meteorology Society...20:29
freemangordonok then, if americans say so :D20:30
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freemangordonbut I definitely like the idea of continuing Nokia's naming scheme20:32
freemangordonusing winds that is20:32
freemangordonmaybe if we name it after Pali he will join the development :p20:32
KotCzarnytbh, it will be using mainline kernel which wouldnt happen without his help20:33
freemangordonsure. but still20:33
parazydmistral is probably italian20:34
parazydwe have it also in the coastline in .hr20:34
KotCzarnymistral is already taken20:34
parazydjust saying20:35
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xesmaestrale, scirocco... tramontana20:47
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sixwheeledbeastI like the wind codenames too, here's a more comprehensive list
sixwheeledbeastMistral and Scirocco where Maemo 2 and 2.121:32
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parazydit's the strongest wind in .hr coast after tramontana21:58
parazydblows from north21:58
parazydah, it's bora in english21:59
jogathis has had me wondering for a while... I mostly recharge my n900 with a sony ebook reader charger (since it's the neatest ~2A USB charger I have) and it works fine, but I also have an Anker 15Ah powerbank (which is quite nice I think), I've had trouble lately connecting the phone to it. the 2A port hasn't really worked with the n900, but 1A has been fine, but like six months ago I've had to plug the cable22:31
jogain reeaally slow, then it works fine, but if ...22:31
joga... I just tug it in quickly it doesn't start charging... I've tried different cables but it hasn't seemed there's much difference there except mechanically22:31
parazydyour microUSB might have started dying22:32
parazydit's a known issue22:32
luke-jrI had a nightmare last night where my last N900's USB port broke off.22:32
parazydluke-jr: haha i remember, you were travelling iirc22:32
jogaI mean, it works and I can charge, but I'm wondering about the mechanical part there, like what happens when I slowly plug stuff in vs. that I "normally" plug them in regarding charging22:32
parazydluke-jr: when one broke22:32
jogaparazyd, yeah I know of the isue22:32
luke-jrparazyd: yeah :<22:32
parazydjoga: if you know how to open it, you can solder the port to the pcb22:33
luke-jr^ not really22:33
luke-jrway too small components22:33
jogaI just haven't had the nerve to solder the stuff since I use the phone all the time :D but I've tried to be really careful with it when plugging in chargers for many years now, I've had it for almost like, I dunno, 7-8 years?22:33
luke-jr*maybe* if there wasn't anything around it22:33
jogaI looked into this with an actually broken unit and yeah it was tedious22:33
luke-jrjoga: it's easier to solder/glue it for strength before it breaks22:34
jogaveeery easy to fuck it all22:34
KotCzarnyluke-jr: didnt you announce already saying bye-bye to n900 ?22:34
luke-jr(this doesn't help if you're getting off a plane and the cord snags tho)22:34
luke-jrKotCzarny: yes22:34
parazydluke-jr: i was thinking on the pcb itself, not to strenghten the connections/joints22:34
luke-jrI haven't used mine more than 60 minutes in months22:34
JuestoAnd how does one fix and strengthen the usb port after ir breaks?22:34
luke-jrparazyd: that's not practical22:34
parazydfor those you'd need some better equipment than your usual store-bought soldering iron22:35
jogabut I'm still using it and it works fine for now, I'm just wondering the reason why it behaves like that depending on the way I plug the cable in (or, the speed), and what goes on in the background, because I don't really know how the charging logic works22:35
luke-jrthe hard part is getting access to it22:35
luke-jrjoga: could be a weak USB port about to break; or it could be a non-spec charger22:35
Juestodesign issue?22:35
luke-jrif it's a non-spec charger, you might be able to mod it22:35
luke-jrgotta short the data pins22:36
jogaI've read the instructions to fix it before it happens, like scraping some stuff off and soldering the connector more tightly, but as I said, I haven't done it because I'm chicken after I sorta practiced with an already broken one that was really finicky ;)22:37
jogaand I need this gorgeous phone!22:37
jogaluke-jr, the charger is most likely fine, but also has been in (ab)use for some time so it might also be that it's just the culprit22:38
luke-jrjoga: most devices don't care if the charger is spec compliant22:38
jogabut I don't recall other devices it doesn't work fine with with either port22:38
luke-jrN900 does22:38
luke-jrif those data pins aren't shorted, N900 will refuse to charge from it22:39
jogawell this is a sorta reputable company product I think, and the capacity matches the spec22:39
jogawell it does charge, *if* I plug it in correctly22:39
jogaand that's what I'm wondering about, the technical reason behind that22:39
luke-jrnote that some Apple devices don't like the spec, so many chargers prefer Apple compatibility over spec22:39
jogayeah I don't give two foos for apple stuff22:39
luke-jrthe charger companies do22:40
jogatoo bad I have to sometimes help people with those things22:40
jogaanyway, it used to work fine with the 1A port without careful plugging in22:40
jogaso what I'm still wondering is where in some code / mechanical stuff is the thing that says "yeah that was slow enough and I had the time to do this whatever, bring it on"22:41
luke-jrmy guess is the 1A port is spec, and the 2A port is Apple-compatible22:41
jogabut it doesn't really matter :)22:41
luke-jrand something to do with the USB cable somehow tricks N900 if you do it right22:41
jogacould also be that I've damaged the n900 charging somehow during the years22:42
jogaI'm still sorta proud it has been serving serious daily usage since forever22:42
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parazydone here is running a web server on devuan :)22:47
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MaxdamantusIf it's a non-spec charger, presumably you can do something in software to get it to still charge.23:10
Maxdamantusmaybe writing 500 or something to the max_current file in sysfs at the right time, dunno.23:11
DocScrutinizer05joga: USB jack gas VBUS and GND make-first-break-last23:12
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: joga: USB jack has VBUS and GND make-first-break-last23:12
DocScrutinizer05you can see the contacts being longer23:12
jogaDocScrutinizer05, what does that mean?23:12
DocScrutinizer05D+/- short signals gastcharger, so device starts charging with up to 1A, which might make your power vank freak out23:13
DocScrutinizer05when you plug in slowly, N900 sees no D+/- short and thus charges with max 500mA or even just 100mA23:14
joga*beavis/butthead snortle* power vank23:14
parazydDocScrutinizer05: how does it recognize if you plug in "slowly"? i fail to see the logic of "slowly"23:15
DocScrutinizer05parazyd: <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: joga: USB jack has VBUS and GND make-first-break-last23:16
DocScrutinizer05[2017-02-03 Fri 22:12:42] <DocScrutinizer05> you can see the contacts being longer23:16
jogawell, I guess it's a factor of many things, like the cable physical dimensions, timing etc. but this particular "plug this cable you used to use in a bit slower in and it'll work with the n900, other devices work just as they used to", which makes me sorta think the n900 port is perhaps just a bit cruddy or something23:16
Maxdamantusparazyd: because the D+/- pins are only shorted once the plug is fully in.23:17
DocScrutinizer05see above23:17
parazydi see23:17
DocScrutinizer05D+/- contacts are shorter than GND and 5V_VBUS23:17
jogaie. I used it just fine, same cable, same n900 for quite some time (I forget, maybe 1.5 years or so), but only fairly recently noticed I needed to plug it in slow23:18
DocScrutinizer05the 1A is ABS MAX, only with totally depleted fresh battery23:18
jogabut thanks for info DocScrutinizer05, I figured you'd know how this stuff works :)23:18
DocScrutinizer05old or partially depleted battery will draw way less than that23:18
jogaI bought some cheap replacement battery a couple months ago23:19
jogabut this problem started earlier23:19
jogafortunately it's not yet a showstopper, and maybe some day will just need to suck it and have something else if phones are still as relevant, but it's easy to say it's been the best goddamn phone ever for me :)23:21
joga(currently charging nicely from the powerbank)23:22
* parazyd uses the 5800XM batteries23:22
DocScrutinizer05use a decent powerbank that can deliver 1A+ and has D+/- short23:22
DocScrutinizer05alternatively use charge21.sh23:23
jogaDocScrutinizer05, it's this
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I can't crystal-ball evaluate it ;-)23:24
jogaruns a cubieboard a10 for about 32 hours or so I've thought it's quite up to spec23:24
jogaI charge it every couple of months or so, just keep it with me23:25
jogadepends how much I need to rely on it, but it has worked perfect with just about everything23:26
DocScrutinizer05I'm using with my powerbank, the "Output-II" has shorted D+/-  :-)23:26
jogaheh I've such a gadget too23:26
joganot 100% same but similar23:27
jogabut that's also good to know..23:27
jogabecause I think that's actually exactly what I usually charge it from: I have that thingy in between the e-reader charger!23:28
jogaand I use the "output II" to charge random stuff like n90023:28
DocScrutinizer05btw N900 chargerchip will also throw error if VBUS is too low (I guess <4V), so a weak flimsy cable or worn-out contacts in plugs can also cause trouble, the more the higher the current drawn23:28
joga(on the second port I have rpi zero keeping my taskwarrior :p)23:29
joga(takes 170mA or so)23:29
*** ashneo76 has quit IRC23:32
DocScrutinizer05cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger23:35
DocScrutinizer05means D+/- short detected23:35
DocScrutinizer05 for your convenience23:36
jogaerr... wtf.. I "open link"'d that from gnome-terminal, firefox asked me to open with or save, I picked open with...  and it opened it in vim..23:38
jogadidn't expect that..23:39
jogaguess it saner than running it straight but I don't remember setting firefox to open stuff in vim especially if I click a button indicating I can choose something23:40
joga(it didn't say it was going to use program X like vim to open it)23:41
jogaoh now I get it, I didn't actually click the "Browse"-button, but just had "open with" selected and clicked ok23:43
jogaso it just sorta uses something, agh23:43
jogaI dunno but it sorta seems exploitable :p23:45

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