| bencoh | Oksanaa: it runs a broswer instance | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| bencoh | (and thus needs browserd) | 00:00 |
| bencoh | apart from that.... no idea | 00:00 |
| Oksanaa | Would like to know what catches these alerts. Because there is a bug or two, I would say. For example, while one-to-one IMs do have avatars, multiple-people Chats have just default grey avatars. | 00:01 |
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| bencoh | Oksanaa: tbh I sometime think I'd love a rtcom-messaging-ui replacement | 00:02 |
| bencoh | with a native (gtk) UI instead of this web thing | 00:03 |
| Oksanaa | Documenting how rtcom-messaging-ui currently works would be a neat step towards putting in an open-source replacement. Gry agrees that GTK-ish UI would be better than web thing. | 00:03 |
| Juesto | hm | 00:04 |
| Juesto | should i email tech staff about login issue? | 00:05 |
| Oksanaa | Which login issue? | 00:05 |
| Juesto | oksanaa, yesterday i've registered to garage and i cant login to maemo.org still | 00:05 |
| Oksanaa | Have you received confirmation email or anything? | 00:06 |
| Juesto | Yes i did validate my email | 00:06 |
| Oksanaa | Match case applies to login. For example, my login is "wikiwide" for some reason, not "Wikiwide". | 00:07 |
| Juesto | yes, i used all lower case and its still not working, i've read the note for new users that appears on a failed login... | 00:07 |
| Oksanaa | Feel free to email techstaff for assistance. | 00:09 |
| * Juesto prefers chat | 00:10 | |
| Juesto | apparently xes is not here for some reason | 00:10 |
| Oksanaa | Well, warfare is here, no idea who of them knows more about failed login of new garage user at maemo.org. Anyway, xes is probably sleeping, he was last seen 8h ago, according to NickServ. | 00:12 |
| Juesto | thanks, i'll await for an answer then | 00:13 |
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| Oksanaa | I wish I knew what maemo launcher is. Anyway, rtcom-messaging-ui includes two very-very simple service files, one a little longer (but also simple) client file, html and smilies, and finally, desktop file and binaries; one of them .launch. | 00:26 |
| Juesto | isnt maemo launcher hildon desktop or something? | 00:30 |
| Oksanaa | Different things. Maemo launcher is connected with how I see, in addition to /usr/bin/X, also /usr/bin/X.launch. And while X is a dummy link to maemo launcher, X.launch is the real file. | 00:32 |
| Oksanaa | I imagine it's to avoid having two instances of the same program? | 00:32 |
| Juesto | could be | 00:36 |
| Oksanaa | Going into reboot. Will see whether manual fsck -aw was good enough to fix the eMMC. | 00:41 |
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| Oksanaa | Unable to create unique name, fsck says... Whatever that means. | 00:47 |
| Oksanaa | 7min already. At least, it speaks of none of these cluster problems. | 00:52 |
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| bencoh | Vajb: the working volume keys when playing music with OMP/mediplayer is due to mafw-gst-renderer (periodically) requesting com.nokia.mce.request.req_keypad_off_pause when playing music | 00:57 |
| bencoh | "Prevent keypad off - On this request mce keeps keypad unblocked next 60 seconds" // mce/dbus-name.h | 00:58 |
| Oksanaa | So it's whole keypad being kept awake just because music is playing?.. Fun. | Agree that bookmark engine is buggy. It swallowed (lost?) whole folders of bookmarks on occasions. | 00:59 |
| bencoh | now I'd like to know why playback stops for a few seconds when pressing power key, except for mafw-gst-renderer-based players | 01:00 |
| bencoh | (although right now I'll actually just head to bed) | 01:02 |
| Oksanaa | Power key is related to system-ui | 01:03 |
| bencoh | yeah | 01:03 |
| bencoh | but I didn't find any systemui reference in mafw | 01:03 |
| bencoh | at least in mafw-gst-renderer | 01:03 |
| Oksanaa | No idea. | Interesting: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mafweqrenderer/ | Actually, fsck took only 1min this time, I just didn't notice it because was staring at tail -f /var/log/fsck.log | 01:07 |
| Juesto | Sounds you're good now, oksana :) | 01:09 |
| Juesto | oksanaa ^ | 01:09 |
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| Juesto | freemangordon: what do i download? devuan is working :) | 01:38 |
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| Oksanaa | Funny, reading rtcom-messaging-ui. There is partially implemented functionality of changing themes. No visible buttons to do it. | 02:56 |
| Juesto | :D | 02:58 |
| Juesto | hidden funcionality \o/ | 02:59 |
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| Juesto | hello xes, i am unable to login onto maemo.org after registering on garage and validating email | 03:41 |
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| Juesto | morning europe | 07:12 |
| Vajb | bencoh: so this sounds to me that it could be set as changable option in OMP. Or im guessing too much? | 07:14 |
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| Oksanaa | Was changing battery right now. Had surprising GUI glitch before that, even Ctrl+Backspace didn't work, while powerkey and systemui did work. Wish Ctrl+Shift+P was working... | 07:22 |
| Vajb | bencoh: i've always thought of that short playback pause caused by cpu resources being used to bring up unlockslider | 07:31 |
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| bencoh | Vajb: you'd have to patch mafw-gst-renderer and expose some option through its API (or through dbus) | 08:24 |
| bencoh | Vajb: the playback pause doesn't happen when playing with mafw-based players | 08:25 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: i guess my system is ready... what do i need to download and compile exactly? | 08:30 |
| Vajb | well i could argue that running anything else, but mafw-based is that more taxing, but honestly i have no idea | 08:30 |
| bencoh | it's actually roughly equivalent when it comes to audio playback (unlike video) | 08:31 |
| Vajb | hmm maybe different route through sw layers | 08:34 |
| bencoh | it's a completely different code but audio playback through dsp still takes cpu anyway | 08:37 |
| Vajb | beats me | 08:41 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: do git clone of hildon-desktop, it will tell you all the needed dependencies | 09:23 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: hildon-desktop from https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2/ | 09:24 |
| freemangordon | almost all the needed stuff is there as well | 09:24 |
| NeKit | what extra libs are needed to try launching apps from SDK chroot? | 09:25 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: differences ? | 09:26 |
| Juesto | between the gtk versions of hildon | 09:27 |
| freemangordon | NeKit: SDK chroot == ScratchBox? | 09:28 |
| NeKit | yes | 09:28 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: gtk3 hildon is not ready at all | 09:28 |
| freemangordon | NeKit: I am not aware of any, it should work OOB | 09:28 |
| freemangordon | but, last time I tried was a couple of years ago, so... :) | 09:29 |
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| KotCzarny | could it be pulse audio related? (audio pause when ui activity does some system work) | 09:39 |
| KotCzarny | another thing to try would be renicing player to -20 | 09:39 |
| KotCzarny | im only renicing oscp playback to -1, and it still skips | 09:40 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh: audio playback through dsp takes a lot less code than with sw decoding | 09:41 |
| KotCzarny | and a lot less mem bandwidth | 09:41 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: try to move the player to multimedia(or somesuch) cgroup | 09:41 |
| KotCzarny | fmg: got a handy c func? | 09:42 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: no C code, just look in /system | 09:42 |
| KotCzarny | uhum | 09:42 |
| freemangordon | also, there was something in /etc, ohmd related | 09:42 |
| freemangordon | can't remember the details | 09:43 |
| KotCzarny | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7132 | 09:43 |
| povbot | Bug 7132: audio hiccups in fm radio when sleeping | 09:43 |
| KotCzarny | he he. | 09:43 |
| KotCzarny | surprisingly its still 'NEW' | 09:44 |
| bencoh | huhu | 09:45 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: it could be pulse related, although I doubt it, since it should occur with mafw as well then | 09:45 |
| bencoh | and my players already are in the same xpolicy group as mafw | 09:45 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: why NEWS and README is empty? | 09:46 |
| bencoh | aren't they always? :D | 09:46 |
| bencoh | (j/k) | 09:46 |
| KotCzarny | he is a dev, not doc person | 09:46 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 09:46 |
| Juesto | configure doesnt even exist lol | 09:47 |
| Juesto | um | 09:50 |
| Juesto | im a bit stuck here... | 09:50 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: which pakcge is that? | 09:50 |
| freemangordon | *package | 09:50 |
| Juesto | downloaded fremantle-gtk2/hildon-desktop | 09:50 |
| Juesto | and i dont know to ./configure | 09:51 |
| freemangordon | downloaded? | 09:51 |
| Juesto | yeah, git clone | 09:51 |
| freemangordon | ah | 09:51 |
| freemangordon | you should dbpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b | 09:51 |
| freemangordon | *dpkg-buildpackage | 09:51 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: make sure to not do ^^^ as root | 09:51 |
| Juesto | well the instructions are wrong lol | 09:52 |
| Juesto | :/ | 09:52 |
| Juesto | im rooted right now | 09:52 |
| Juesto | and its in a root dir | 09:52 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: which instructions?!? | 09:52 |
| freemangordon | this is debian source | 09:52 |
| Juesto | INSTALL | 09:52 |
| Juesto | Right in the repo | 09:52 |
| Juesto | lol | 09:52 |
| * Juesto shrugs | 09:52 | |
| freemangordon | well, if you want ./configure, you should do autofoo stuff by hand | 09:52 |
| freemangordon | but you'd better use debian scripts | 09:53 |
| Juesto | autogen.sh and ./configure-ac | 09:53 |
| Juesto | there is | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | yes, but better nto do it | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | as debian/rules does more things | 09:53 |
| Juesto | whats the problem with rooted enviorment for the package building | 09:53 |
| freemangordon | you should not pass -rfakeroot to dpkg-buildpackage in that case | 09:54 |
| freemangordon | as you're already root | 09:54 |
| freemangordon | just that | 09:54 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: look in /usr/share/ploicy/ | 09:55 |
| freemangordon | grrrr | 09:55 |
| freemangordon | "/usr/share/policy" | 09:55 |
| KotCzarny | fmg, will do, but i suspect its cpu/mem bandwidth starvation/stall | 09:56 |
| freemangordon | does stutter happen all the time? | 09:56 |
| KotCzarny | most noticable on screen lock/unlock | 09:57 |
| freemangordon | what is the cpu load? | 09:57 |
| KotCzarny | and when notifications show | 09:57 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: the it is a priority thing | 09:57 |
| freemangordon | *then | 09:57 |
| freemangordon | aiui | 09:57 |
| KotCzarny | will try -20 first then cgroups, then both | 09:57 |
| KotCzarny | (as soon as i find the charger, poor thing is hungry) | 09:58 |
| freemangordon | if you do cgroups, you should not change the priority afaik | 09:58 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: got like... 10 unobtainable package dependencies | 09:59 |
| Juesto | 5am in here | 10:00 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: you should move to either "media" or "mediasrc" group | 10:00 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: that's normal :) | 10:00 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: just git-clone the relevent packages, build and install them | 10:00 |
| freemangordon | you'll have more missing stuff, but the code is on the repo | 10:01 |
| Juesto | installing what's standard/exists | 10:01 |
| Juesto | full xserver dev stuff apparently | 10:01 |
| freemangordon | if there is a dependency that is not on github, then you should the standard package by using apt-get | 10:02 |
| freemangordon | *should install | 10:02 |
| Juesto | I already did that lol | 10:02 |
| freemangordon | good | 10:02 |
| Juesto | except the github ones | 10:02 |
| freemangordon | how did you found what -dev packages are needed? | 10:03 |
| freemangordon | *find | 10:03 |
| * freemangordon needs more coffee | 10:03 | |
| KotCzarny | fmg, you can copypaste your converstion with juesto into BUILD file ;) | 10:03 |
| KotCzarny | will also serve as FAQ | 10:03 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: /me is developer, not doc writer :p | 10:03 |
| KotCzarny | developers do copypaste a lot sometimes :P | 10:04 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: Even if I can take over the everything, I refuse to | 10:04 |
| KotCzarny | so you should be proficient with that skill | 10:04 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: should i just download the entire fremantle-gtk2 ? | 10:04 |
| Juesto | download = git clone | 10:05 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: actually yes, but I have no idea if it is possible | 10:05 |
| freemangordon | to do it with one command only | 10:05 |
| Juesto | it is possible | 10:05 |
| Juesto | well not | 10:05 |
| freemangordon | you have to git clone package-by-package | 10:05 |
| freemangordon | but yes, everything there is needed | 10:05 |
| freemangordon | those are about maybe 7-% of fremantle core packages | 10:06 |
| freemangordon | daaamn | 10:06 |
| freemangordon | 70% | 10:06 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: do you think it is "fair" /me to take all the job? | 10:07 |
| KotCzarny | not at all | 10:07 |
| freemangordon | and do you think it makes sense if nobody else is interested? | 10:07 |
| KotCzarny | but right now you have to repeat all build steps for new people | 10:07 |
| KotCzarny | and having this thing copypasted would save you some time | 10:07 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: hopefully that would change soon | 10:07 |
| Juesto | I'm going to write down instructions perhaps | 10:08 |
| freemangordon | as I expect to have a repo on either devuan or maemo servers someday | 10:08 |
| freemangordon | so no manual build will be needed | 10:08 |
| freemangordon | I am wating to see what Wizzup will do with autobuilder and repo with devuan guys | 10:09 |
| freemangordon | if he fails, we'll setup a deb repo on maemo servers | 10:09 |
| freemangordon | hopefully, if the community is fine with that | 10:10 |
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| freemangordon | Juesto: good | 10:11 |
| bencoh | 10:08 < Juesto> I'm going to write down instructions perhaps | 10:19 |
| bencoh | that's the spirit :) | 10:19 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 10:19 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: did you try the /usr/share/policy thing? | 10:19 |
| freemangordon | I guess he is still looking for a charger :p | 10:19 |
| Juesto | done, i checked out everything | 10:20 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: anywhere i can find the dependency chain? | 10:20 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh: so its an entry in some system text file? | 10:20 |
| Juesto | am i the first into this? | 10:21 |
| bencoh | Juesto: debian/control? | 10:21 |
| Juesto | i have the feeling im not | 10:21 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: dunno, every package dependencies are in debian/control | 10:21 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: no idea yet | 10:21 |
| Juesto | hm | 10:22 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: there is a command to install those dependencies, gimme a minute | 10:22 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: what i am looking for is the entire dependency tree | 10:22 |
| bencoh | interestingly enough there is a rawcam entry there | 10:22 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: just move the pid to the appropriate dir in /system | 10:23 |
| Juesto | not what each repository comes with x packages | 10:23 |
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| freemangordon | Juesto: i don;t think you can get the whole dependency chain | 10:23 |
| freemangordon | but i am not *thet* good in debian packaging, so... | 10:24 |
| freemangordon | *that* | 10:24 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: okay i tried.... apparently i have to hack up something where it automatically cds and builds | 10:25 |
| Juesto | Should i just skip deps or they are required? | 10:25 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, fmg, which /system are you talking about? | 10:26 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: re if you're the first - no, you're not | 10:26 |
| Juesto | apparently the default is build both src and bin | 10:26 |
| KotCzarny | [classify system] ? | 10:26 |
| KotCzarny | [classify mediarend] ? | 10:26 |
| bencoh | /sys I suppose | 10:26 |
| bencoh | err maybe not | 10:27 |
| KotCzarny | /usr/share/policy/etc/rx51/syspart.conf | 10:27 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: it might be faster is you just cd to the needed package directory and do "dpkg-buildpackage -b" and then install the produced .debs | 10:27 |
| KotCzarny | this one probably | 10:27 |
| * freemangordon checks | 10:27 | |
| freemangordon | yeah, /syspart | 10:28 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: im trying a faster way | 10:28 |
| Juesto | automation | 10:28 |
| freemangordon | ok | 10:28 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: hmm, seems there are no relevant dirs there | 10:29 |
| freemangordon | so you should add your binary in the policy file | 10:29 |
| freemangordon | and probably restart ohmd | 10:29 |
| KotCzarny | will try classify mediasrc | 10:29 |
| bencoh | I see mafw-gst-renderer there | 10:29 |
| bencoh | so you might be right :) | 10:30 |
| bencoh | if yes that'd be really cool | 10:30 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: /usr/share/policy/etc/current/syspart.conf | 10:30 |
| KotCzarny | how do i restart ohmd? | 10:31 |
| bencoh | stop/start? | 10:31 |
| * KotCzarny is services n00b | 10:31 | |
| * freemangordon wonders if ohmd supports something like run-parts | 10:31 | |
| freemangordon | yep, stop/start shoud do the job | 10:31 |
| KotCzarny | syspart didnt change a thing | 10:32 |
| KotCzarny | renicing oscp audio renderer thread to -20 worked | 10:33 |
| KotCzarny | so i was right about cpu starvation | 10:33 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: try to reboot | 10:33 |
| freemangordon | it could be something else besides ohmd that needs to be restarted so syspart change to take effect | 10:34 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: also, -20 is too much imo | 10:34 |
| KotCzarny | i know | 10:34 |
| freemangordon | ok | 10:34 |
| KotCzarny | i was just checking if it changes anything | 10:34 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 10:34 |
| KotCzarny | unlock takes a tiny bit longer, but no audio skip | 10:35 |
| KotCzarny | i might add it as a config option | 10:35 |
| KotCzarny | btw. there are some binary things in /usr/share/policy/rules/rx51 | 10:35 |
| KotCzarny | maybe policies need to be 'recompiled' ? | 10:35 |
| freemangordon | yes, some prolog stuff :) | 10:36 |
| freemangordon | could be | 10:36 |
| KotCzarny | lets see if they change after reboot | 10:36 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: https://github.com/community-ssu/policy-settings-rx51 | 10:37 |
| KotCzarny | btw. can i check current cgroup in /sys somewhere? | 10:37 |
| freemangordon | dunno | 10:37 |
| freemangordon | it should be possible, but... | 10:37 |
| Juesto | im trying quick and dirty | 10:38 |
| Juesto | repeating a mass build package | 10:38 |
| Juesto | and then dpkg -i *.deb | 10:38 |
| KotCzarny | /proc/<pid>/cgroup | 10:38 |
| KotCzarny | currently 7:freezer,memory,cpu:/ | 10:38 |
| KotCzarny | reoot time. | 10:38 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, fun fact, on reboot when x dies i saw last pic i was viewing in pic viewer (or maybe captured by camera) | 10:39 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: the first to try was NeKit, on android phone, in arch linux chroot iirc :) | 10:41 |
| freemangordon | NeKit: right ^^^ | 10:41 |
| KotCzarny | reboot didnt change a thing | 10:42 |
| NeKit | what a weird mix, lol | 10:42 |
| KotCzarny | still skips | 10:42 |
| bencoh | what are you trying btw? gtk3 on maemo? | 10:42 |
| NeKit | at least those 8 cores can be put to some use | 10:42 |
| Juesto | bencoh: fremantle-gtk2 on devuan\ | 10:42 |
| bencoh | ah | 10:42 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: could you check in which cgroup it is now? | 10:43 |
| KotCzarny | yes, the one i've pasted | 10:43 |
| KotCzarny | 09:38 #maemo |> currently 7:freezer,memory,cpu:/ | 10:43 |
| KotCzarny | same as mafw-renderer | 10:43 |
| freemangordon | could you check where is PA? | 10:43 |
| Juesto | juesto.pw:9600 | 10:43 |
| Juesto | VNC ^ | 10:43 |
| KotCzarny | fmg: same | 10:44 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 10:44 |
| KotCzarny | checked some other process for comparison: /usr/libexec/gst-video-thumbnailerd, 7:freezer,memory,cpu:/applications/standby | 10:45 |
| Juesto | ... | 10:45 |
| KotCzarny | so either policies arent working or something else is wrong | 10:46 |
| freemangordon | hmm, yeah, there is somethign weird | 10:46 |
| Juesto | is SELinux enabled? | 10:47 |
| freemangordon | anyway, me gtg | 10:47 |
| * Juesto sighs | 10:47 | |
| freemangordon | bye, bbl | 10:47 |
| Juesto | i guess i'll sleep | 10:47 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: I don;t think you'll need my help anytime soon | 10:47 |
| freemangordon | you have lots of packages to build | 10:47 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:47 |
| Juesto | actually yes, still missing stuff freemangordon | 10:47 |
| freemangordon | you have to build and install ~30-40 packages before hildon-desktop is buildable | 10:48 |
| freemangordon | I really hope we'll have a functional debian repo soon | 10:49 |
| freemangordon | but until then... | 10:49 |
| freemangordon | anyway, bye | 10:49 |
| KotCzarny | fun fact, oscp pauses playback during phone call, didnt knew it does that :> | 10:49 |
| KotCzarny | most likely audiodevice stops accepting data and it waits | 10:49 |
| Juesto | welp, do i need to use upstart? | 10:50 |
| Juesto | should i switch to ubuntu? | 10:50 |
| KotCzarny | juesto: recommended | 10:50 |
| KotCzarny | devuan | 10:50 |
| KotCzarny | we hate systemd here | 10:50 |
| Juesto | KotCzarny: It seems to remove sysv and put upstart | 10:51 |
| Juesto | :/ | 10:51 |
| Juesto | i am neutral | 10:51 |
| KotCzarny | as long the system boots.. | 10:51 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:51 |
| KotCzarny | i think upstart honors sysv scripts | 10:51 |
| KotCzarny | and upstart itself is very simple to use | 10:51 |
| KotCzarny | (i know, i was using sysv before and had to change something in n900) | 10:52 |
| Juesto | hm | 10:53 |
| Juesto | interesting | 10:53 |
| KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw/dB6x2Wc9 | 10:53 |
| KotCzarny | cgroups are b0rken? | 10:53 |
| KotCzarny | maybe that policy thing doesnt use cgroups but something else? | 10:54 |
| KotCzarny | (stock n900 here btw.) | 10:54 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh, can you paste /proc/cgroups if you have cssu? | 10:54 |
| bencoh | cpu 7 6 1 | 10:55 |
| bencoh | same for memory and freezer | 10:55 |
| Juesto | In what order i should install the debs | 10:57 |
| Juesto | ... | 10:58 |
| Juesto | either i install upstart-dev or maemo-system-sevices-dev | 10:59 |
| Juesto | :| | 10:59 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: oh, don't install upstart-dev, sorry, it was deprecated some time ago | 11:01 |
| freemangordon | I have to remove it from the repo | 11:01 |
| Juesto | :/ | 11:01 |
| Juesto | i'll remove that then | 11:01 |
| freemangordon | is is superseded by maemo-system-sevices-dev | 11:02 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: also https://defuse.ca/b/MXjB2GJk | 11:02 |
| freemangordon | "Sorry, the paste you were looking for could not be found. " | 11:02 |
| Juesto | lowercase g sorry | 11:03 |
| Juesto | https://defuse.ca/b/MXjB2gJk | 11:03 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: hmm, make sure you're on the correct branch | 11:04 |
| Juesto | im on fremantle-gtk2 | 11:04 |
| freemangordon | you need branches with gtk2 or clutter1 in the name | 11:04 |
| freemangordon | no, for individual packages that is | 11:04 |
| Juesto | ah | 11:04 |
| freemangordon | git branch -a will list all the branches | 11:04 |
| Juesto | i have a mixed system | 11:04 |
| Juesto | ah | 11:04 |
| * freemangordon is afk | 11:04 | |
| bencoh | hm, btw. freaking old, but ... http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_on_Debian | 11:09 |
| Juesto | i have a headache | 11:09 |
| bencoh | I dont think they got anywhere, but ... | 11:09 |
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| Juesto | how do i switch branches | 11:53 |
| Juesto | im used to tortoisegit | 11:53 |
| bencoh | git checkout <branch> | 11:54 |
| Juesto | doesnt match it says | 11:55 |
| bencoh | ? | 11:55 |
| Juesto | git checkout gives pathspec didnt match any files known to git | 11:56 |
| Juesto | :/ | 11:56 |
| Juesto | i had to use -B | 11:59 |
| KotCzarny | [rule /opt/oscp/bin/oscp] | 12:01 |
| KotCzarny | group mediasrc | 12:01 |
| KotCzarny | this works, weird | 12:01 |
| KotCzarny | cant make it skip anymore (lock/unlock, running telephony app etc) | 12:02 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh, freemangordon: ^^^ | 12:03 |
| KotCzarny | now, how do i sensibly modify syspart.conf on install? | 12:03 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: why didn't it work earlier then? | 12:04 |
| bencoh | (because that's exactly what fmg was referring too ;p) | 12:04 |
| bencoh | (and what I was referring to when I said I found mafw-gst-renderer there) | 12:04 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh, i've tried to add it in [classify mediasrc] | 12:04 |
| KotCzarny | that didnt work | 12:04 |
| bencoh | ah, well | 12:04 |
| KotCzarny | but amazingly, cant make it skip anymore :) | 12:05 |
| Juesto | Finally im managing someting!! | 12:05 |
| KotCzarny | even running cpu intensive things (as starting oscp-remote.py | 12:05 |
| Juesto | something* | 12:05 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: I don't think it was cpu-bound anyway :) | 12:05 |
| Juesto | i feel horrible | 12:05 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 12:05 |
| bencoh | but great, thanks a lot! :) | 12:06 |
| KotCzarny | i cant imaging running .py script affecting audio | 12:06 |
| KotCzarny | *imagine | 12:06 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: starting oscp-remote made it stutter? | 12:06 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: Finally! compiled libmatchbox2 in upstream-gtk2 | 12:06 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, because running py scripts require quite a lot of cpu at start | 12:07 |
| KotCzarny | and even sometimes opening new windows (info, help etc) | 12:07 |
| Juesto | now im actually getting somewhere | 12:09 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: well, good to know anyway | 12:10 |
| bencoh | I wonder if this file can be fragmented | 12:10 |
| bencoh | because you don't want to alter it on every player package installation | 12:10 |
| KotCzarny | i dont see any include or similar entries | 12:10 |
| bencoh | I saw a similar one with rawcam | 12:10 |
| bencoh | (similar file) | 12:10 |
| KotCzarny | maybe it manages its own cgroup? | 12:11 |
| bencoh | but I haven't dived further | 12:11 |
| KotCzarny | i will have to invent some sed magic for oscp now (with checking if modification is needed) | 12:11 |
| bencoh | I'll have a go at it this evening (in case there's anything left to do, that is ;p) | 12:11 |
| bencoh | I'd rather not, but ... | 12:11 |
| bencoh | actually same goes for xpolicy (pulse policy) btw | 12:12 |
| KotCzarny | i think pa doesnt have to be modified | 12:12 |
| bencoh | I had to manually add games/emulators to [games] and players/radio/whatever to relevant groups | 12:12 |
| KotCzarny | unless you do some voice related work | 12:12 |
| bencoh | not regarding that issue no | 12:12 |
| bencoh | but if you want to be able to listen to music while still in silent mode ... | 12:12 |
| KotCzarny | o.O | 12:13 |
| * KotCzarny checks | 12:13 | |
| KotCzarny | oh wow | 12:13 |
| bencoh | yeah ;p | 12:13 |
| bencoh | they really messed that one | 12:13 |
| KotCzarny | you are right :> | 12:13 |
| KotCzarny | otoh, silent is silent, right? :P | 12:13 |
| bencoh | the thing is ... connecting headphones doesn't change that behavior | 12:14 |
| bencoh | and default mediaplayer on the other hand can always play music (be it in silent or general, with or without headsets) | 12:14 |
| bencoh | so you'd expect either 1. a consistent experience, or 2. hearing something when connecting headphones, even in silent mode | 12:15 |
| bencoh | anyway :) | 12:15 |
| bencoh | (another solution would be to patch responsible daemon to switch to general when pluggin headphones and revert back when unplugging - and even that is not a proper solution) | 12:16 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, which group should i add to? | 12:20 |
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| bencoh | player, iirc | 12:20 |
| bencoh | just look for mafw in xpolicy ;> | 12:21 |
| Juesto | starting to write notes | 12:21 |
| bencoh | Juesto: yay | 12:21 |
| Juesto | and just covering what i needed to do specific to the thing | 12:21 |
| Juesto | i am omitting all the deps that the user can install from the distro | 12:22 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh, what service shall i restart for xpolicy.conf ? | 12:29 |
| bencoh | pulse | 12:30 |
| KotCzarny | stop: Unknown job: pulse | 12:32 |
| Juesto | isnt pulseaudio? | 12:33 |
| Juesto | oh nvm | 12:33 |
| KotCzarny | yeha, pulseaudio | 12:34 |
| KotCzarny | fixed silence in silent mode, but it skips again | 12:35 |
| KotCzarny | hrrm | 12:36 |
| Juesto | check resources usage? | 12:37 |
| Juesto | are you sure the media isnt corrupted? | 12:37 |
| KotCzarny | after restarting ohm after pulseaudio fixed it | 12:38 |
| KotCzarny | 2 essential fixes in one day, yay | 12:38 |
| KotCzarny | now to add them to installer. | 12:38 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: i use the gtk2 branch for libhildondesktop anyway ? | 12:39 |
| Juesto | it appears older | 12:39 |
| Juesto | 9 commits ahead and 6 behind master | 12:39 |
| Wizzup | freemangordon: (re ping) I have time to work on it in the eve. So I expect first results tonight | 12:40 |
| Juesto | oh hey there | 12:40 |
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| Wizzup | hi | 12:40 |
| Juesto | im going through the package building as you saw... :) | 12:40 |
| Wizzup | great. I need to read the backlog in full still | 12:41 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: wait, restarting pulse after ohm broke the stuttering thing? | 12:43 |
| bencoh | and restarting ohm after pulse fixes it back? | 12:43 |
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| Wizzup | Juesto: just curious, for what device are you building | 12:46 |
| Juesto | Wizzup: none | 12:47 |
| Wizzup | ok, just your laptop/desktop? | 12:47 |
| Juesto | yep, rebasing for devuan... | 12:47 |
| Juesto | see the conversation i had yesterday | 12:47 |
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| Wizzup | Juesto: by rebasing, you mean building? | 12:51 |
| Wizzup | Or do you mean you're modding the debian build scripts? | 12:51 |
| Juesto | Wizzup: just building | 12:51 |
| Juesto | again, see the conversation yesterday, started on -ssu then moved here. Wizzup | 12:52 |
| Wizzup | ok, I read the log. I just wanted to check. | 12:54 |
| Wizzup | Since you said 'rebasing' :) | 12:55 |
| xes | Juesto: hi! I'm looking into your login problem | 13:01 |
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| KotCzarny | bencoh: yeah | 13:16 |
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| KotCzarny | bencoh, oscp 0.9.67 in repos, no skipping, no muting ;) | 16:03 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: in free? | 16:04 |
| KotCzarny | soon, if you want source you can grab my arch package | 16:04 |
| KotCzarny | i have yet to repackage it for maemo's autobuilder | 16:04 |
| bencoh | nice | 16:04 |
| KotCzarny | which will be adventure in itself, right now i dont have to care about ancient autobuilder's gcc | 16:05 |
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| bencoh | that shouldn't be that of a problem | 16:05 |
| KotCzarny | it is for libav | 16:06 |
| bencoh | ancient ffmpeg, on the other hand... | 16:06 |
| bencoh | do you seriously intend to ship with a builtin ffmpeg? | 16:06 |
| bencoh | (and seriously drop libav ...) | 16:06 |
| KotCzarny | nope, i will probably make oscp-libav package | 16:06 |
| bencoh | *sigh* | 16:06 |
| bencoh | iirc there is already a not-to-old ffmpeg in maemo | 16:06 |
| KotCzarny | libav is cleaner and saner than ffmpeg | 16:06 |
| KotCzarny | ffmpeg is 'oooh, a patch!, lets add it' | 16:07 |
| bencoh | okay, I wont feed it ;p | 16:07 |
| bencoh | anyway | 16:07 |
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| KotCzarny | http://maemo.org/packages/view/libavcodec53/ | 16:10 |
| KotCzarny | hehe | 16:10 |
| KotCzarny | so eventfull | 16:10 |
| KotCzarny | can i see package voting status somewhere ? | 16:12 |
| KotCzarny | it seems that ffmpeg/libav packages were created by felipec (nokia employee) and apparently promoted without any voting | 16:15 |
| KotCzarny | libav-0.7 in repos is.. well, ancient | 16:20 |
| KotCzarny | and ffmpeg is even more ancient | 16:21 |
| bencoh | I think android_808 built a new one | 16:25 |
| bencoh | but maybe he didn't uploadi t | 16:26 |
| KotCzarny | did he manage to build neon optimized one? | 16:29 |
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| KotCzarny | afair old gcc fails to compile optimizations | 16:29 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: I still build ffmpeg with old gcc, but it works fine enough, and you can always remove intrinsics | 16:36 |
| bencoh | since most interesting ffmpeg optims are built using yasm | 16:36 |
| bencoh | (they're neither intrinsics nor gcc inline afaict) | 16:37 |
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| buZz | oo cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgdNwT1NOzo | 16:53 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: yes, gtk2 branch for libhildondesktop | 16:54 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: so, what was the final fix? | 16:54 |
| KotCzarny | fmg: adding as a [rule /some/path/oscp] | 16:54 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: also, it is not that good idea to sed syspart.conf | 16:54 |
| KotCzarny | fmg, got any better way? | 16:55 |
| KotCzarny | and i've added few safeguards | 16:55 |
| freemangordon | not sure, maybe check ohmd if it supports $dir.d run-parts type of configuration | 16:55 |
| freemangordon | Pali: ^^^ is anything besides syspart.conf read by ohmd? | 16:56 |
| bencoh | if it doesn't, maybe patching ohmd would be an option? | 16:56 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: if not, maybe propose a patch to CSSU :p | 16:56 |
| freemangordon | ah, bencoh beat me to it :) | 16:56 |
| KotCzarny | fmg: what about stock fremantle? :P | 16:56 |
| bencoh | ;) | 16:56 |
| freemangordon | who cares | 16:57 |
| KotCzarny | my main device is stock ;) | 16:57 |
| freemangordon | time to move to CSSU then | 16:57 |
| KotCzarny | it works, why should i? ;) | 16:57 |
| bencoh | yeah, still dont understand why you still carry a stock device | 16:57 |
| bencoh | because it ""works"" | 16:57 |
| bencoh | it's full of bugs | 16:57 |
| KotCzarny | which bugs affect me? | 16:57 |
| bencoh | memleaks for sure | 16:57 |
| KotCzarny | didnt notice, and sometimes battery runs dry anyway | 16:58 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: no, really, I will downvote such package if it enters extras-testing | 16:58 |
| bencoh | battery runs dry because of bugs as well :D | 16:58 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: wgat about openssl? | 16:58 |
| freemangordon | *what | 16:58 |
| freemangordon | certificates? | 16:58 |
| bencoh | freemangordon: reminds me I still havent try your foss devlock replacement | 16:58 |
| bencoh | tried* | 16:58 |
| freemangordon | iisn;t it in CSSU? | 16:59 |
| KotCzarny | i dont use browser much, and when i do it mostly works | 16:59 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: it is not about the browser, but anything internet related | 16:59 |
| freemangordon | but yeah, it is up to you | 16:59 |
| KotCzarny | internet, but only https etc | 16:59 |
| freemangordon | ssl, tls, etc | 17:00 |
| KotCzarny | for plain nonencrypted connections ssl isnt used | 17:00 |
| freemangordon | sure | 17:00 |
| bencoh | freemangordon: hmm it might be in -testing, but I have a -stable device with cherry-picked changes | 17:00 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: ah, right | 17:00 |
| freemangordon | could be like that | 17:01 |
| bencoh | (that's quite stupid as well, tbh) | 17:01 |
| bencoh | (running a -stable device these days) | 17:01 |
| freemangordon | anyway, I expect new stable soon | 17:01 |
| bencoh | yay :) | 17:01 |
| bencoh | has it been tested enough though? | 17:01 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: yeah, we have a new maintainer for -testing and hopefully merlin1991 will issue a new stable | 17:01 |
| bencoh | :) | 17:02 |
| freemangordon | it has been, but there is(was) noone to make the new release | 17:02 |
| KotCzarny | fmg: check syspart.conf, quite a lot of things are added to that file (mahjong, lmarbles, chess, gnuchess) | 17:02 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: all those are stock nokia applications | 17:02 |
| freemangordon | so they were added by Nokia | 17:03 |
| bencoh | regarding cssu packaging, I know we've already discussed it, but ... how feasible would building cssu packages using autobuilder be? | 17:03 |
| KotCzarny | then its very important to add include.d functionality to syspart.conf | 17:03 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: yeah | 17:03 |
| freemangordon | I guess fully feasible, just somebody has to do it | 17:03 |
| bencoh | same goes for xpolicy.conf | 17:03 |
| KotCzarny | otherwise ANY application not using mafw for audio will glitch | 17:03 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: :nod: | 17:03 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: I suspect nokia's policy back then was "thou shalt not play audio without mafw" anyway | 17:04 |
| bencoh | (which would be quite a good idea if it really helped saving power ... but I doubt it does) | 17:04 |
| freemangordon | which is not very smart, as afaik QT apps does not play through it | 17:04 |
| bencoh | yeah they don't | 17:04 |
| bencoh | phonon uses gstreamer directly | 17:05 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: it is not about the power, but about the priorities | 17:05 |
| bencoh | that too, but still | 17:05 |
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| bencoh | hmm, btw | 17:06 |
| bencoh | freemangordon: have you ever worked with notifications on hildon? | 17:07 |
| KotCzarny | is there any way to quickly grep sources repo for possible syspart.conf modifications? | 17:07 |
| bencoh | it looks like notify_update_notification() does not work properly | 17:07 |
| bencoh | which is a pity | 17:07 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: could be | 17:07 |
| freemangordon | I used them, but it was a while ago | 17:07 |
| bencoh | it means you have to close previous notifications and open a new one from your app, which is racy unless you open the new one in the closed cb of the old one | 17:07 |
| bencoh | which is ... spaghetti | 17:08 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: even if there was, I doubt you'll find anything | 17:08 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: :nod: | 17:08 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: modifying others config files is not the correct approach | 17:08 |
| bencoh | well, maybe I could try and fix notification support in our libnotify or in hildon itself instead of kludging app | 17:08 |
| KotCzarny | fmg, right now there is no other way to fix this bug (because it is a bug in os) | 17:09 |
| freemangordon | notifications are in hildon iirc | 17:09 |
| KotCzarny | what about opt-in with user requester? would that be passable? | 17:09 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: toldya, the correct way is to raise a bug against CSSU and ideally to provide a patch | 17:10 |
| KotCzarny | got cssu bugtracker link handy? | 17:10 |
| bencoh | freemangordon: we use a generic lib (libnotify) between applications and hildon | 17:10 |
| bencoh | so bug could sit there as well | 17:10 |
| freemangordon | yeah, could be | 17:10 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: bugs.maemo.org | 17:11 |
| bencoh | I'll try and have a look | 17:11 |
| freemangordon | cool | 17:11 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: I guess there are already a couple of similar bugs | 17:11 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: wait... | 17:11 |
| freemangordon | maybe it is a better idea /me to put ohmd on cssu github repo and you to raise an issue there | 17:12 |
| KotCzarny | k, let me know when to post report | 17:12 |
| freemangordon | I know it will take a while until it hits -stable, but this is the correct way | 17:12 |
| freemangordon | ok | 17:12 |
| bencoh | are we still using stock ohmd? | 17:13 |
| KotCzarny | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8699 | 17:13 |
| povbot | Bug 8699: Sound pauses when screen is manually blanked or unbanked with the slider switch | 17:13 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: yes | 17:13 |
| bencoh | wow :) | 17:13 |
| KotCzarny | this is one of the reports | 17:13 |
| KotCzarny | 2010 ;) | 17:13 |
| bencoh | yeah | 17:13 |
| KotCzarny | hitting lock when music plays is easiest to trigger this bug | 17:14 |
| KotCzarny | fmg, there is similar bug in pulseaudio's xpolicy.conf, with similar fix | 17:14 |
| Pali | freemangordon: no idea what is used by ohmd | 17:15 |
| Pali | anyway, ohmd is open source and maemo5 source code can be found in meego ohmd git history | 17:16 |
| KotCzarny | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11099 | 17:18 |
| povbot | Bug 11099: Audio interruptions when locking screen or receiving notifications | 17:18 |
| KotCzarny | maybe i shall grab all those bugs and move to some container-bug-report? | 17:19 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: it is said to be fixed in libplayback, lemme check | 17:20 |
| bencoh | libplayback? | 17:22 |
| freemangordon | yes | 17:23 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: I guess you should use it | 17:23 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: see http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libplayback-1/playback_8h.html | 17:23 |
| bencoh | that thing is ... funny | 17:24 |
| KotCzarny | if its better than pulseaudio api, why not, i've already added specific n900's pa interface | 17:24 |
| KotCzarny | wth, it plays via dbus? | 17:24 |
| freemangordon | look at https://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=899694&postcount=1 | 17:24 |
| freemangordon | * libplayback offers the following features: | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | * - Audio output when silent mode is active | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | * - Notifications that we should stop playing (f.e. incoming call) | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | * - Override of privacy mode / silent mode for our own audio stream | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | * if the playback class is set to "PB_CLASS_CALL". | 17:25 |
| freemangordon | * - Simultaneous mute/unmute of all mics (seen on dbus: TV out, headset, headmike, microphone) | 17:25 |
| bencoh | I wonder if it allows proper handling of volume keys when "locked" | 17:26 |
| bencoh | the fact that you have to modify app to run is pretty annoying though | 17:26 |
| KotCzarny | +1 | 17:26 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: iiuc it doesn;t play through dbus | 17:27 |
| bencoh | hmm, nokia-binaries | 17:27 |
| bencoh | means it's closed source ... shit | 17:27 |
| freemangordon | yes it is | 17:27 |
| bencoh | it uses /org/maemo/Playback/Manager | 17:28 |
| KotCzarny | http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libplayback-1/ | 17:29 |
| KotCzarny | har har | 17:29 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libplayback-1/files.html | 17:32 |
| freemangordon | and http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libplayback-1/playback_8h.html | 17:32 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: also, look at the example code attached to the post | 17:33 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, saw that | 17:33 |
| freemangordon | looks like what you need | 17:33 |
| KotCzarny | but c++/object oriented code makes me dizzy | 17:34 |
| freemangordon | this is pure C code, where did you find c++? | 17:34 |
| KotCzarny | anything with g_loop and callbacks | 17:35 |
| freemangordon | this is C :) | 17:35 |
| freemangordon | glib | 17:35 |
| KotCzarny | not c++ specifically, but i meant this model | 17:35 |
| freemangordon | well, the whole maemo is like that | 17:35 |
| bencoh | looks like Playback.Manager actually belongs to ohmd (or rather ohm-session-agent) | 17:36 |
| bencoh | brings us back to read ohmd code to understand what it does :) | 17:37 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 17:37 |
| freemangordon | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain | 17:37 |
| bencoh | freemangordon: but ... that's cheating! :* | 17:37 |
| KotCzarny | i like the simple model of 'here's the file, here's the device, i decode file and write to device' ;) | 17:38 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: that might work if it is only you, your file and the kernel but no other applications around :) | 17:39 |
| KotCzarny | fmg, or if the policies are implanted into device drivers ;) | 17:39 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: however, you still might want to propose a patch for ohmd | 17:39 |
| freemangordon | as it looks way simpler | 17:40 |
| KotCzarny | i feel that main source of slowness nowadays is shuffling data around needlessly | 17:40 |
| KotCzarny | fmg, i think oscp isnt the only app that could benefit from such option | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | sure | 17:42 |
| bencoh | interestingly enough mplayer links against libplayback | 17:42 |
| bencoh | I wonder why and what they did there ... because afaict it still stutters | 17:43 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: I guess to report playback state and to receive cb events (phone call etc) | 17:43 |
| KotCzarny | maybe they didnt fix libplayback well enough? | 17:43 |
| KotCzarny | try that example from the thread? | 17:43 |
| freemangordon | mediaplayer stutters? this is new to me | 17:43 |
| KotCzarny | mplayer != mediaplayer | 17:43 |
| freemangordon | ah, mplayer | 17:44 |
| bencoh | yeah, mplayer | 17:44 |
| bencoh | which is why I find it odd | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | maybe libplayback is used but not in the correct way | 17:44 |
| bencoh | dunno | 18:02 |
| ceene | what the hell is this | 18:04 |
| ceene | sslayer@portatil:~/Proyectos/neo900$ host radio | 18:04 |
| ceene | radio has address 127.0.53.53 | 18:04 |
| ceene | radio mail is handled by 10 your-dns-needs-immediate-attention.radio. | 18:04 |
| ceene | what? | 18:04 |
| bencoh | ceene: .lan, right? | 18:05 |
| ceene | no search or domain entry on /etc/resolv.conf | 18:05 |
| KotCzarny | :> | 18:05 |
| ceene | sslayer@portatil:~/Proyectos/neo900$ host test | 18:05 |
| ceene | Host test not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) | 18:05 |
| bencoh | https://www.icann.org/en/.../name-collision-mitigation-final-redline-28oct15-en.pdf | 18:05 |
| KotCzarny | what is your resolver? | 18:05 |
| ceene | sslayer@portatil:~/Proyectos/neo900$ cat /etc/resolv.conf | 18:05 |
| ceene | # Generated by NetworkManager | 18:05 |
| ceene | nameserver 8.8.8.8 | 18:05 |
| ceene | nameserver 8.8.4.4 | 18:05 |
| KotCzarny | then you shouldnt send names without . to public resolver | 18:06 |
| bencoh | well I guess .radio is part of the new gTLDs | 18:06 |
| KotCzarny | i guess, ie. forgot domain in that file | 18:06 |
| KotCzarny | or dhcp | 18:06 |
| bencoh | meaning radio now points to ... the tld itself | 18:06 |
| ceene | yeah, i forgot i don't have defined any domain search on resolv.conf | 18:07 |
| ceene | bencoh: that makes sense | 18:07 |
| KotCzarny | http://serverfault.com/questions/626612/dns-just-started-resolving-my-server-prod-addresses-to-127-0-53-53 | 18:07 |
| ceene | it makes sense, a little at least | 18:08 |
| ceene | thanks | 18:08 |
| ceene | i don't like this everything-can-be-a-tld thing | 18:08 |
| ceene | i can end up masquerading existing dns hosts, can't i? | 18:08 |
| ceene | what if had named my internal lan as .radio? | 18:09 |
| KotCzarny | dont ask me, its money talking | 18:09 |
| ceene | now i wouldn't be able to see mtv.radio | 18:09 |
| KotCzarny | then run local lan resolver instead of asking google every time? | 18:10 |
| ceene | that wouldn't fix that i can be masquerading a suddenly new tld | 18:11 |
| bencoh | ceene: yup, that's silly | 18:29 |
| bencoh | worst example is all those organizations that used .lan | 18:29 |
| bencoh | err, .local | 18:29 |
| bencoh | (instead of .lan) | 18:30 |
| ceene | yep, anyhow, it's the same thing | 18:31 |
| ceene | all screwed up :) | 18:31 |
| Vajb | pointing out far back, but i think it wasn't mentioned that mplayer still plays even if i have a phone call | 19:32 |
| Vajb | i don't hear it but file advances | 19:33 |
| Vajb | also panucci stops playback when unlocking, but i think it pauses when phonecall | 19:34 |
| Vajb | but both mplayer and panucci play in headphones in silent mode | 19:35 |
| bencoh | well, could be related then | 19:37 |
| bencoh | #ifdef CONFIG_MAEMO | 19:39 |
| bencoh | ossocontext = osso_initialize("mplayer-cli", "1.0 SVN", 0, NULL); | 19:39 |
| bencoh | playback = pb_playback_new_2 ((DBusConnection *) osso_get_dbus_connection (ossocontext), PB_CLASS_MEDIA, PB_FLAG_AUDIO | PB_FLAG_VIDEO | PB_FLAG_AUDIO_RECORDING | PB_FLAG_VIDEO_RECORDING, PB_STATE_PLAY, libplayback_state_request_handler, NULL); | 19:39 |
| bencoh | #endif | 19:39 |
| bencoh | in mplayer.c | 19:39 |
| bencoh | so ... indeed | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ROTFL http://paste.opensuse.org/497230 | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo audio handling is totally FUBAR. IIRC it decides on last process started which audio profile to 'enforce' | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I found a file (years ago) that lists all games (process names) that should use audio policy 'gaming' (or somesuch) | 20:04 |
| bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: you should probably backlog the whole discussion before going on :) | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could you give me a timestamp where it started? | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't confirm >>11099: Audio interruptions when locking screen or receiving notifications<< | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually mediaplayer mutes system sounds (a good thing) | 20:13 |
| bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: it happens with non-mafw players | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then those are "flawed", IOW they don't take care about the fubar audio handling on maemo | 20:15 |
| bencoh | that was our conclusion as well, yeah. actually we were pretty sure of that, just wanted to understand what should be done to "fix" those players ;) | 20:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | in a sane (ALSA) system environment, you'd define a few standard audio devices like "systemsound", "alarm", "media", "music", "gaming" and most apps would simply open the appropriate audio device. Apps with special needs would define their own audio devices by providing the ALSA stack, or they would construct the stack by complex audio device 'name' (incl parameters) they open | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *every* proper ALSA audio app has a way to configure the audio device to open. So no app would need "#ifdef CONFIG_MAEMO" crap | 20:19 |
| Juesto | xes: news? | 20:21 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: hey there, im progressing and writing down a log, fell asleep | 20:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | see for example http://alsa.opensrc.org/How_to_use_softvol_to_control_the_master_volume and implementation like in https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/twinklephone/conversations/topics/1731 | 20:27 |
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| Sicelo | is there a distro that's not PA-based nowadays? | 20:31 |
| Juesto | hmm likely | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good question. Prolly not, but afaik you still can uninstall PA and get plain working ALSA | 20:33 |
| Juesto | android doesnt use PA for example | 20:34 |
| Juesto | is not PA-based* | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | android is not linux (despite they tell me it was, every day) | 20:35 |
| Sicelo | hehe @ Android | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | re ALSA "right audio device" I even did a tiny fancy and created a ALSA audio device that executes arbitrary binaries on open() and on close() | 20:37 |
| Sicelo | i don't consider Android when I think of LInux too .. anyway, Juesto what does Android use for audio? | 20:37 |
| Juesto | plain alsa afaik | 20:37 |
| Sicelo | oh | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://pastebin.com/f7015c561 | 20:39 |
| ceene | i always apt-get --purge remove pulseaudio | 20:39 |
| ceene | sometimes it's the *only* way to get audio to work | 20:39 |
| Sicelo | :p | 20:40 |
| Sicelo | i played with jackd at some point .. i liked it | 20:40 |
| ceene | i read about low latency and thought: this is more than what i need | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/ALSAso.tar.gz | 20:43 |
| Sicelo | i should make time for alsa at some point | 20:43 |
| ceene | my experience with alsa is pretty limited too | 20:43 |
| ceene | configuring asoundrc a little bit :) | 20:44 |
| Sicelo | never really used it as pa was default by the time i started using linux | 20:44 |
| ceene | i think i created a virtual device with its own volume control so i could turn up the volume of notifications or something like that, years ago | 20:44 |
| Juesto | meh | 20:44 |
| Juesto | i feel overwhelmed here :( | 20:44 |
| Sicelo | and for me audio (pa) always worked well | 20:44 |
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| Juesto | not sure if just alsa or esound or stagefreight | 20:48 |
| Juesto | ^ about android audio, actually | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: have a look at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/twinklephone/conversations/topics/1731 | 20:50 |
| Sicelo | if we used systemd on N900, could we expect bad performance? :) | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: you could expect bootloop since systemd needs cgroups but maemo occupies those | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | systemd is absolutely incompatible to maemo | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo using cgroups to ensure priority of e.g. phone apps | 20:52 |
| Juesto | freemangordon: cant install libhildonmime because of missing l10n packages | 20:53 |
| Juesto | should i log out from garage before attempting to login in maemo.org? | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one of the total fuckups of systemd that it exclusively occupies cgroups and doesn't allow existing solutions needing cgroups to coexist | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, systemd can't work without cgroups | 20:55 |
| Juesto | xes, for some reason logging out from garage logged me in maemo.org | 20:56 |
| Juesto | now it works fine | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zhere are systems that *don't HAVE* cgroup support at all | 20:56 |
| Juesto | strange | 20:56 |
| Sicelo | i get you | 21:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | re http://maemo.cloud-7.de/ALSAso.tar.gz you could even do stuff like triggering vibra (via dbus-send) on any arbitrary app opening the ringer audio device. Or muting all system sounds incl ringtones as soon as any arbitrary media player opens "music" or "media" audio device. NO PATCHES NEEDED at all in any of the apps | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BUT.... Nokia couldn't have kept that a closed blob and thus ensure "User doesn't disrupt key functionality of device" | 21:19 |
| Juesto | Hmmm | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | really the ONLY thing ALSA needs to learn to be on par with PA is rerouting of audio streams on hotplug of a new audio card (think pairing a BT headset). There's no support in ALSA for doing that without prior configuration knowing about the new audiocard properties | 21:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you *could* handle that with existing ALSA when you accept you have to close() and re-open() the audio device of any app that's using the old and new audio card | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I think that's the favorable concept over sinply brute-force switching to a new audio card as soon as it becomes available to the device, without even taking care if all the audio streams are really meant to get played back via that new device - but that's what PA in maemo does now, more or less | 21:26 |
| Maxdamantus | Can't someone write a plugin to do that? Or would it be considered not very ALSA-like since it would probably involve multiple configurations? | 21:27 |
| Maxdamantus | ie, pcm { type "connect"; connect.socket = "/run/alsamaster"; }, or something like that. | 21:28 |
| Maxdamantus | s/= // | 21:28 |
| infobot | Maxdamantus meant: ie, pcm { type "connect"; connect.socket "/run/alsamaster"; }, or something like that. | 21:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't want my smart mediaplayer with carefully crafted different equalizer settings play back to wired home stereo using the IHF-speakers EQ profile, just because I plug in the AV-cable to N900 | 21:28 |
| Maxdamantus | So have a differennt socket for your mediaplayer. | 21:30 |
| Maxdamantus | the thing listening on that will know what equalisation to use based on the current hw output. | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sidenote on nice property of http://maemo.cloud-7.de/ALSAso.tar.gz : when the binary you execute as open() (or close() ) hook returns error, your asound_open() in app will throw error instead of opening the audio device | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and obviously (as a consequence from the above) the asound_open() is sync, I.E. it only returns _after_ the hook binary returned | 21:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so whatever audio config you need to set up, you can be sure your binary (or script) you call in "" hooks.0 { type ringerdevicehook hook_args { open "date;sleep 5;date" "" will have been finished successfully before the app doing the audio device open() continues and outputs *any* audio | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can set up a audio scenario handling of the complexity and basic structure of sth like sysv-init with such hooks, while keeping same flexibility and transparency/simplicity | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | note that the hooks run in the process context of the app calling them | 21:41 |
| KotCzarny | sicelo: i'm using slackware, no systemd, no pulseaudio | 21:42 |
| Juesto | hehe | 21:42 |
| KotCzarny | most likely gentoo doesnt use pa either | 21:42 |
| KotCzarny | dbus/pa/systemd/gnome are all belonging to the same 'users are stupid and need windowsish like system to take care for them' | 21:43 |
| Juesto | and xfce? | 21:43 |
| Juesto | yeah gentoo doesnt use pa by default but it can use it | 21:44 |
| KotCzarny | xfce is not bad | 21:44 |
| Juesto | interesting since xfce is gtk based | 21:44 |
| Juesto | like a gnome clone | 21:44 |
| KotCzarny | any linux system could use pa, its the 'use by default' option that is bad | 21:44 |
| Juesto | right | 21:45 |
| KotCzarny | gnome is much more than gtk ui | 21:45 |
| Juesto | Well you can always defeat the "use by default" | 21:45 |
| KotCzarny | juesto: not if software starts requiring some components | 21:45 |
| Juesto | ahh | 21:45 |
| Juesto | metapackages or software itself? | 21:46 |
| Juesto | as in, compiled with the requirement | 21:46 |
| KotCzarny | software | 21:46 |
| Juesto | ahhh right | 21:46 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: just added cat /usr/share/policy/etc/syspart.conf.d/cmus.syspart.conf | 21:47 |
| bencoh | [rule /usr/bin/cmus] | 21:47 |
| bencoh | group mediasrc | 21:47 |
| KotCzarny | linux was about putting little, perfectly fine-tuned, building blocks into something bigger | 21:47 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: works :) | 21:47 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh: yeah, but fmg wouldnt approve ;) | 21:47 |
| bencoh | freemangordon: no need to patch ohmd :) | 21:47 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: reread that | 21:47 |
| KotCzarny | oh, right | 21:47 |
| bencoh | syspart.conf.d :) | 21:47 |
| KotCzarny | did you add anything else to include that dir? | 21:47 |
| bencoh | nope | 21:47 |
| KotCzarny | purrfect | 21:47 |
| bencoh | fixes the stuttering / interruption when pressing power key | 21:48 |
| bencoh | yep! | 21:48 |
| KotCzarny | after 10 years of ignoring that bug, fix is simple! | 21:48 |
| Juesto | lel | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are two possible approaches (both equally valid and up to the user or developer to decide which to use): either you split/clone e.g. "music" device audiostream into multiple sinks aka cards (IHF-speakers, wired-HS, BT-headset), each of which has its own 'mute button' and you enable the sink you want being used for output of "music". Or your app uses a dedicated "music:IHF" audio device and thus explicitly decides itself which audio | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | card to use | 21:48 |
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| KotCzarny | bencoh: is there similar fix for pa's xpolicy.conf ? | 21:49 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: not that I know of | 21:49 |
| bencoh | sadly | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAH! | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: ((systemd, cgroups)) less /usr/share/policy/etc/current/syspart.conf | 21:52 |
| bencoh | now I'd love to find a better fix than adding a dbus request in every player I might want to use to use vol keys when device is locked | 21:53 |
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| bencoh | because cmus (for instance) doesn't even use glib, so adding dbus there feels ... silly. | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and /usr/share/policy/etc/current/pulse/xpolicy.conf is the damn audio file I mentioned I found years ago | 21:54 |
| bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: yeah we now about it :) | 21:54 |
| KotCzarny | yup, i feel the same about libplay or whatever its called | 21:54 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: libplayback wont fix the volkeys issue | 21:54 |
| bencoh | at least I doubt it | 21:54 |
| bencoh | well I can try with mplayer since it's supposed to do that already | 21:55 |
| bencoh | yup, doesn't work with my current mplayer version a least. and mplayer does stop playing when pressing powerkey | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly W*T*F?! | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [stream] | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | property = application.process.arg0@equals:"/usr/bin/Mahjong" | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | group = game | 21:58 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: hmm, something's wrong with ohmd and this "fix" | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wouldn't it be much smarter to have a str audiodev = "all:\"game,Mahjong\""; asound_open(audiodev) ? | 22:03 |
| bencoh | looks like it doesnt work after some time (?!) | 22:03 |
| bencoh | I have no freaking idea what they did there | 22:03 |
| bencoh | seriously | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ohmd is sort of PITA and maemo has a closed blob extension to it afaik | 22:04 |
| Juesto | where i can find l10n blobs for fremantle-gtk2 ? | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | note you could even do sth like .alsarc: default { pcm @getenv ALSAPCM... and then `ALSAPCM=games Mahjong` | 22:08 |
| bencoh | Juesto: nokia repositories (and mirrors) I guess | 22:09 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh: may be related to that pa policy changes | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/alsarc/asoundrc/ | 22:11 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: note you could even do sth like .asoundrc: default { pcm @getenv ALSAPCM... and then `ALSAPCM=games Mahjong` | 22:11 |
| Juesto | bencoh: should i add those to apt ? | 22:11 |
| KotCzarny | so when system changes policy maybe it need to reload ohmd policy too | 22:11 |
| Juesto | for somee reason i cant logout from maemo.org now | 22:13 |
| KotCzarny | does ohmd support some debug logging? | 22:13 |
| KotCzarny | juesto: delete cookies? | 22:13 |
| Juesto | KotCzarny: cookies deletion shouldnt be necessary | 22:14 |
| KotCzarny | yes, but should log you out | 22:14 |
| Juesto | i know. :| | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: ((looks like it doesnt work after some time; I have no freaking idea what they did there)) I *guess* that policy stuff doesn't always work the way we hope it would. I don't see how switching policies can get synced to e.g. task switching, and prolly also not easy to have nested policies when starting a later process overrides a earlier policy and then on end of same process the earlier policy possibly doesn't get restored | 22:15 |
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| freemangordon | Juesto: you'd better not add armel repos to your i386 devuan | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | Juesto: you can find all the i10n packages in nokia repo mirrors | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | just google for the package name | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | bencoh: su syspart.conf.d is already implemented? | 22:33 |
| freemangordon | *so | 22:33 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: iiuc, they tag PA packets somehow, so when they arrive in PA, they get prioritized or somesuch | 22:36 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: also, ohm/ohmd is FOSS | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, but Nokia built a blob extension for it afaik | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | oh, that prolog shit? | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly, yes | 22:38 |
| freemangordon | yep, right, but Pali REed it :) | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-)) | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now write a doc for it and it's almost useful ;-) | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I really don't even grok the concept | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | me neither | 22:39 |
| Pali | yea, prolog code was decompiled :-) | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should try to contact javispedro and ask him, he seemed to have some degree of understanding in that stuff | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen javispedro | 22:46 |
| infobot | javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 798d 3h 45m 34s ago, saying: 'they don't, but you will have poor signal in stock n900'. | 22:46 |
| freemangordon | iirc he did a rage quit, so I doubt he'll be cooperative | 22:46 |
| KotCzarny | o.O | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 22:47 |
| Juesto | hey wb freemangordon | 22:47 |
| Juesto | safe link? | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't recall any ragequit by javispedro | 22:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | rage targeted at Nokia? | 22:48 |
| Juesto | is being a contributor strictly a programming contribution? | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 22:49 |
| freemangordon | no | 22:49 |
| Juesto | okay, perhaps i can have it once i get this working | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo cloaks managing is a royal pita | 22:49 |
| Juesto | how so | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GC MIA | 22:49 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh: that syspart.conf fix is incompatible with xpolicy.conf fix | 22:50 |
| Juesto | ?? | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | group contact missing in action | 22:50 |
| KotCzarny | removing oscp from stream group in xpolicy made it unglitchable again | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen generalantilles | 22:50 |
| infobot | generalantilles <~ryan@Maemo/community/contributor/GeneralAntilles> was last seen on IRC in channel #asterisk, 841d 4h 21m 27s ago, saying: 'OK, thanks. :)'. | 22:50 |
| KotCzarny | hrm, even stranger, it stops working after i stop oscp, but restarting pulseaudio and ohmd make it work again | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically Maemo/community/contributor/ is equivalent to Maemo/EX-council/ | 22:53 |
| KotCzarny | very strange. | 22:54 |
| Juesto | o_o | 22:54 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh, freemangordon: any clues on ^ ? | 22:54 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: no idea, sorry | 22:55 |
| KotCzarny | i suspect some policies changing | 22:56 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: I guess you should look at the code that parses those config files | 22:56 |
| KotCzarny | i suspect pa playing some role in all this | 22:58 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: restart ohmd alone makes it work again, afaict | 22:59 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, just tried it | 23:00 |
| bencoh | and it stops working after some time | 23:00 |
| bencoh | like, a few minutes | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /who Maemo/community/* | 23:01 |
| bencoh | ? | 23:01 |
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| Juesto | DocScrutinizer05: doesnt tell me many people because its freenode :| | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err? | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Juesto: when I was councilor, I two times (iirc) pushed a initiative to hand out Maemo/community/contributor/ cloaks to renowned members who applied for it. It bith times took about 5 months until all council agreed and GC implemented those few cloaks. I wouldn't suggest you hold your breath for a 3rd such initiative any time soon | 23:06 |
| KotCzarny | bencoh, maybe its related to some cpu usage quota? | 23:06 |
| Juesto | o_O | 23:06 |
| Juesto | holy | 23:06 |
| *** luf has quit IRC | 23:07 | |
| KotCzarny | when i enable cpu hogging effects i get glitches more easily, no matter if i restart ohmd | 23:07 |
| KotCzarny | (mind you, its not glitching during play, only when doing new app open/notification show) | 23:07 |
| Juesto | welp | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Juesto: anyway if you really really want to get such cloak, the recommended way is: find a recent council member who's actually joining this IRC channel, ping them about a cloak, send a email to council AT maemo.org applying for one, and then hope for the best | 23:11 |
| Juesto | okay nevermind then | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IF I could get a hold on Ryan Abel (our GC MIA), I could ask him to grant co-GC to me, so we could cut a few corners there, but last mail I sent been unreplied | 23:12 |
| Juesto | but thanks for the info DocScrutinizer05 | 23:12 |
| Juesto | GC MIA? | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2017-01-29 Sun 21:50:27] <DocScrutinizer05> group contact missing in action | 23:13 |
| Juesto | Ah | 23:13 |
| Juesto | sorry | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the contact person between owners of namespace and freenode admins who can actually assign cloaks | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure if council changed the GC for #maemo*, last thing I know is: it been Ryan Abel aka generalantilles | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~seen generalantilles | 23:15 |
| infobot | generalantilles <~ryan@Maemo/community/contributor/GeneralAntilles> was last seen on IRC in channel #asterisk, 841d 4h 46m 19s ago, saying: 'OK, thanks. :)'. | 23:15 |
| *** ceene has quit IRC | 23:17 | |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: doubt it, but dunno | 23:18 |
| bencoh | I even tried increasing min freq from 250m to 600m, didn't help | 23:18 |
| Juesto | DocScrutinizer05: probably it did change since... ryan abel isnt listed in community council page | 23:40 |
| Juesto | he was in council in 2009 tho | 23:42 |
| Juesto | inagural council* | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Juesto: sorry? GC is not mandatory member of council | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council usually doesn't have any administrative roles, those are delegated | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council decides who's administrative person for all the different tasks maemo involves | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though only on recent demand by situation, or by request from community | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually usually council only approves suggestions made by e.g. techstaff | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or, in case of cloaks, by chanops and GC | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council isn't even expected to have the expertise to do all that administrative tasks by themselves | 23:59 |
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