IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2017-01-10

« Monday, 2017-01-09 Index Wednesday, 2017-01-11 »
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Michael_a380What's the best 'fold / flip / clamshell' phone?07:47
Michael_a380Dad hates touch screens.07:49
Vajbi would say nokia e9007:57
KotCzarnybest depends on personal views08:06
KotCzarnyif one has big fingers, there are 'senior phones'08:06
KotCzarnyetc08:06
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luke-jrMichael_a380: Dragonbox Pyra?09:09
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jonwilhi11:37
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buZzmeh, why doesnt the application manager have 'search'11:56
L29Ahapt-cache11:56
L29Ah?11:56
KotCzarnybuzz, have you tried just starting typing?11:57
buZzoh i havent11:58
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buZzdang, so simple, ty :D11:58
KotCzarnybuzz: same goes for contacts/call log etc12:01
buZzhmhm, i dont use a simcard in it, so dont use that, but thanks :D12:01
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dreamerhi all, I'm trying to install a package but somehow espeak dependencies are broken :/12:33
dreamer(too new versions available to what is needed)12:33
KotCzarnycompile everything from sources?12:34
dreamer:/12:34
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Vajbdreamer: try apt-cache search and see if the version u need is in some repo and then just disable others12:55
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dreamerVajb: I don't see it being in different repos12:59
dreamerie. all versiens that 'apt-cache show' gives are the same repo afaict12:59
bencohapt-cache policy ?13:01
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Vajbah i meant what bencoh said13:14
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DocScrutinizer05let me rant a bit about apt-cache policy still broken in that it doesn't show full info14:15
DocScrutinizer05hmm, maybe I'm wrong?14:16
keriowhat kind of full info?14:17
kerioonly showing the domain name? yeah that's awful14:17
bencohit doesn't show complete repository url, but yeah14:17
KotCzarnyhey, dont scare the users14:18
KotCzarnytoo much info can make them scream14:18
DocScrutinizer05aah now14:19
DocScrutinizer05exactly what bencoh said14:19
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DocScrutinizer05friggin pointless when your URL is always just "maemo.org" or somesuch14:20
DocScrutinizer05deb http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/ fremantle free non-free14:20
DocScrutinizer05deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free14:20
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# apt-cache policy mp-fremantle-community-pr14:22
DocScrutinizer05mp-fremantle-community-pr:14:22
DocScrutinizer05        500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages14:22
DocScrutinizer05KTNXFU14:22
buZzweird, app manager didnt show me updates available14:24
buZzyet, apt-get update; apt-get upgrade does14:24
buZz(and replaces the kernel with a stupid version , pff)14:24
DocScrutinizer05buZz: that's *exactly* the point14:24
buZzthe point of what?14:24
DocScrutinizer05buZz: don't mess with apt when you want to do updates14:24
buZzah too later :P14:25
buZz-r14:25
buZzdont seem to have broken anything though14:25
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DocScrutinizer05you will only notice later on14:26
KotCzarnyso, which kernel you have now?14:26
KotCzarnydid you check it survived the reboot? ;)14:26
buZzthe '53' power thingy14:27
KotCzarnypower53 is good14:27
DocScrutinizer05to start with:14:27
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls -l /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list14:27
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   0 2009-10-30 12:39 /etc/apt/sources.list14:27
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 333 2017-01-08 21:56 /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list14:27
buZzLinux Nokia-N900 2.6.28.10-power53 #1 PREEMPT Wed Dec 10 13:52:39 UTC 2014 armv7l unknown14:27
DocScrutinizer05you might want to have a peek at14:28
DocScrutinizer05~jrtools14:28
infobotjrtools is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools14:28
buZzDocScrutinizer05: similar, mine's bigger though14:28
buZzthe hildon-app-man.list has ; https://hastebin.com/amokanusav.nginx14:29
KotCzarnypastebin that doesnt work without js? no, thanks :P14:29
buZzKotCzarny: here; https://hastebin.com/raw/amokanusav14:30
KotCzarnyits exactly why interwebs are broken today14:30
KotCzarnyand why out n900's browser is not enough14:30
KotCzarnydont enable extras-devel and do upgrades14:30
KotCzarnyits dangerous14:30
buZz:)14:31
* buZz blindfolded running towards walls14:31
KotCzarnyin a 'i havent checked if it works, but uploaded anyway, enjoy!'14:31
KotCzarnyway14:31
buZz:D14:31
KotCzarnymaybe we should upload some broken system package replacement that will show people its bad?14:37
KotCzarnyand display big 'you did bad' on reboot14:37
buZzoh nice, maybe i did bad :D14:38
KotCzarnyblinking and with bright colors too14:38
DocScrutinizer05you most probably do NOT want http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/ repo14:43
KotCzarnyah, yeah. that too14:44
DocScrutinizer05and you must not do apt-get upgrade (or dist-upgrade) when http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel is enabled14:45
DocScrutinizer05we've seen several times packages from the latter replaced and borked fubar a system package14:46
Michael_a380I've probably done  apt-get update14:47
KotCzarnyupdate only gets indexes14:47
KotCzarnyupgrade calculates which packages to install/change14:48
bencohI still don't really understand why apt-get upgrade shows already up-to-date packets, btw14:50
KotCzarnybencoh: does it?14:50
Michael_a380thanks14:50
DocScrutinizer05upDATE is absolutely OK and even mandatory. It only reads in the new packages.list14:50
bencohKotCzarny: when overriding packets with manually installed dpkgs, yes14:50
bencoheven if package version is the same14:51
KotCzarnyare you sure those packages are the EXACT versions?14:51
KotCzarnyahm14:51
bencohthat's what policy says14:51
bencohand I compared to dpkg -l14:51
bencohit's even worse than that14:51
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: a apt-cache policy on the particular package may help14:51
KotCzarnynever saw that issue tbh14:51
bencohDocScrutinizer05: see 5 latest lines ;)14:52
DocScrutinizer05your last 5 lines are clearly a response to some filtered stuff I don't see14:52
bencohso, it's worse than that. let's say I rebuilt some package, installed it using dpkg14:52
bencohthen reinstall original package, using apt-get14:52
KotCzarnyyou should change version string if it was built using different options14:53
bencohupgrade will still show me said package as upgradable14:53
bencohit's as if at some point cache got borked14:54
DocScrutinizer05HAM has priorities14:55
bencohso has apt-get14:55
DocScrutinizer05I'm not all that sure apt has those too, and if it does if they work exactly same way14:55
bencohactually I'm not sure HAM has :>14:56
bencohbut apt sure does14:56
bencohham might use it through apt, dunno14:56
DocScrutinizer05HAM uses apt via a lib14:57
bencohyeah I mean, the "priority" thing14:57
DocScrutinizer05but HAM does a comprehensive re-definition of several working dirs14:57
DocScrutinizer05iirc14:57
DocScrutinizer05even cache might differ between apt-get and HAM14:58
bencohI'd have to read speedyham code, some day14:58
bencohmaybe14:58
bencohdoubt that but who knows14:58
DocScrutinizer05please give me a full pathname of a file in cache14:59
DocScrutinizer05nevermind15:01
DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/3060928215:01
DocScrutinizer05no idea15:01
DocScrutinizer05I'm pretty sure during system update HAM creates some possibly temporary dirs on emmc15:02
DocScrutinizer05hildon-application-manager-config dump15:04
DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/4715185615:05
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DocScrutinizer05very enlightening:  http://paste.opensuse.org/359353315:09
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls -l /etc/hildon-application-manager/15:12
DocScrutinizer05insgesamt 1215:12
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2017 2017-01-08 21:56 catalogues15:12
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   12 2009-10-07 17:11 notifier15:12
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   12 2012-09-11 15:36 settings15:12
* DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders if http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/enable-catalogs really does a comprehensive and decent job15:15
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DocScrutinizer05though it takes care about /etc/hildon-application-manager/, so yes I prolly knew about that stuff when writing it15:25
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DocScrutinizer05anyway the general rule "**never do apt-get upgrade od apt-get dist-upgrade" applies and I've never seen issues when strictly following that15:35
DocScrutinizer05except when e.g. manually forcing procps into system and thus apt refuses to do *anything* from then on, since it says there are dependency conflicts you should fix by apt-get -f (which btw doesn't fix anything either)15:37
buZzmaybe, we could patch apt-get to just not do that by default?15:37
DocScrutinizer05~jrtools15:37
infobotit has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools15:37
buZzreplace the commands with reallyupgrade or reallydist-upgrade15:37
DocScrutinizer05covers that15:37
buZzit only blocks dist-upgrade, not upgrade15:38
DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#Miniwrapper_for_apt-get_logs.15:38
buZzyep15:38
buZzit only blocks dist-upgrade, not upgrade :)15:38
bencohafaict upgrade works15:39
bencohapart from the fact that it might mistake up-to-date packages to ones needing upgrade15:39
bencohbut it won't break an install15:40
bencoh(unlike dist-upgrade, which will break your system)15:40
bencohs/to ones/for ones/15:40
buZzwell seems to depend on which repos are enabled15:40
bencohI have pinned extras-devel/extras-testing, and it still works ;)15:42
bencohI just didn't blindly add -devel with no pinning, that's all15:43
DocScrutinizer05how will you install a package from extras-devel when same package is in extras in an older version?15:43
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bencohDocScrutinizer05: package=42.12-foobar15:44
bencohtotal freedom :)15:45
marmistrzHi! I'm wondering: what does SailfishOS currently use for accessing the phone memory via USB? Mass storage? MTP? SFTP?15:45
DocScrutinizer05you always need to decide manually somehow (either via pinning the particular package if that is feasible, by providing exact version in apt-get install pkg:version, or by (recommended) only temporarily enabling extras-devel for a few installs but *never* keep it enabled for upgrade or dist-upgrade or HAM up'dates')15:45
DocScrutinizer05marmistrz: hi! long time no see :-) I don't think many sailfish experts around here15:46
bencohmarmistrz: good question, I guess someone might know the answer on sfos chan :)15:46
marmistrz:)15:48
marmistrzthanks!15:48
DocScrutinizer05((only temporarily enabling extras-devel for a few installs)) additional rationale: you not always want to update to newest (possibly broken) version in extras-devel, when there's a new version getting pushed there15:49
bencohDocScrutinizer05: which is why pinning is a good solution15:50
bencohanyway, prolly a matter of taste15:50
DocScrutinizer05I don't know how pinning works exactly, and on which level15:50
DocScrutinizer05very natural procedure: enable-catalogs all; #startup HAM, check "update" and decide which packages you want to update from extras-devel *manually*, do NOT do "update all" (button at top of list);  enable-catalogs basic.15:52
DocScrutinizer05alternatively to HAM in the above, you may use apt-get install, but NEVER apt-get upgrade15:53
DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/72803604  shows how upgrade doesn't care and would upgrade all, shows how apt-cache policy is a PITA since it doesn't really tell which repo the packages come from, and leaves me puzzled to whether I got latest CSSU installed and if this failed to upgrade ssh to a fixed version15:59
DocScrutinizer05*and* shows that you always need to be alert, and never forget to do apt-get update after switching catalogs ;-)16:00
DocScrutinizer05meh, no changes, only a mess of intransparent stuff16:05
DocScrutinizer05I guess I should simply install CSSU-T over all that again16:06
DocScrutinizer05really I'm down to just guessing - aka i'm lost16:07
DocScrutinizer05~cssu16:07
infobotcssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update)16:07
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DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/86635780  FFS!16:09
DocScrutinizer05this is latest16:09
DocScrutinizer0521.2011.38-1Tmaemo11 (11.04.2015)   http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog16:10
DocScrutinizer05so why the f*** is >> openssl Upgrade to upstream 0.9.8zf + maemo patches<< not up to date on my system?16:11
bencohbecause you didn't upgrade? :D16:17
DocScrutinizer05I obviously did, see http://paste.opensuse.org/8663578016:17
bencohmine is uptodate16:17
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DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/2093035816:19
bencohhmm, looks like I don't have mp-fremantle-community-pr at all16:20
bencoh(on stable)16:20
bencohI mean, it's not installed here16:21
KotCzarnycheater :P16:21
bencohno idea why/how16:21
KotCzarnymaybe you have ran into some troubles and removed it16:22
bencohmaybe16:22
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bencohconsidering its dependencies I don't really see why I'd have done that though16:23
KotCzarnyexperimented with weird packages?16:23
DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/8696145816:23
KotCzarnytry apt-get install to see what it would change (but press ctrl-c before actually doing it)16:24
bencohKotCzarny: maybe, but still, mp doesn't seem to specify dependency versions16:24
bencohwhich would explain why DocScrutinizer05 doing install on it doesn't change a thing16:24
KotCzarnybut sometimes it requires packages that are conflicting with some gnu-* ones16:24
bencohs/dependency versions/recent dependency versions/, in his case16:25
bencohopenssl (>= 0.9.8n-1+maemo4+0m5+0cssu1)16:25
bencohmight be a bug in Tmaemo1116:25
bencohstable shows 0.9.8zf alright16:26
DocScrutinizer05Package: mp-fremantle-community-pr Version: 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11  depends on ... libssl0.9.8 (>= 0.9.8zf-1+maemo1+0m5+0cssu0),16:26
bencohDocScrutinizer05: where does that thing in your pastebin comes from then?16:27
DocScrutinizer05my system says Package: mp-fremantle-community-pr Version: 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11 is installed but libssl0.9.8 (>= 0.9.8zf-1+maemo1+0m5+0cssu0)  isn't16:27
DocScrutinizer05apt-cache show mp-fremantle-community-pr16:28
DocScrutinizer05which btw is a PITA16:28
DocScrutinizer05did somebody reintroduce ">=" despite maemo's apt is broken and can't handle those relations? Or did that get fixed or I'm dreaming the whole issue up?16:30
KotCzarnyim still on stock and have 0.9.8n16:32
KotCzarny:)16:32
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: ^^^^^16:33
bencohDocScrutinizer05: where does http://paste.opensuse.org/86961458 come from?16:39
bencohbecause it explicitely mentions 0.9.8n16:39
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DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/7473463016:41
DocScrutinizer05where that comes from? it's IroN900 shell16:42
DocScrutinizer05and it does mention what?16:43
DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2017/01/10/plasma-desktopj17764.png16:44
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: I guess I don't get your question, please rephrase16:46
DocScrutinizer05ooooh wait, openssl0.98 vs LIBssl0.9816:53
* DocScrutinizer05 headdesks a little16:54
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DocScrutinizer05act is: apt-get upgrade as well as apt-cache policy tell me   Installed: 0.9.8n-1+maemo4+0m5+0cssu1   Candidate: 0.9.8zf-1+maemo1+0m5+0cssu0, while I got cssu-t11 installed which on changelog claims it did that update16:59
DocScrutinizer05fact* even16:59
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DocScrutinizer05so wtf *is* openssl?17:00
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DocScrutinizer05\o/17:01
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# openssl --version17:01
DocScrutinizer05openssl:Error: '--version' is an invalid command.17:01
sicelo-:)17:01
sicelo-sounds like you have closedssl17:01
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# openssl version17:02
DocScrutinizer05OpenSSL 0.9.8n 24 Mar 2010 (Library: OpenSSL 0.9.8zf 19 Mar 2015)17:02
DocScrutinizer05now that looks pretty much to the point17:02
sicelo-i have zh :-/17:02
DocScrutinizer05while `apt-cache policy openssl` gives me headache17:02
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sicelo-ah, from -devel17:05
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DocScrutinizer05zh for what? lib or executable?17:13
sicelo-openssl17:19
sicelo-openssl: Installed: 0.9.8zh-1+maemo1+0m5+0cssu0 Candidate: 0.9.8zh-1+maemo1+0m5+0cssu017:20
DocScrutinizer05anyway HAM doesn't show me any updates, *until* I go to settings and "[x]show all packages" "[x]show magic system package" "[ ]ignore packages from wrong domains"17:21
sicelo-that zh is in devel though (and i didn't know about such HAM options)17:22
DocScrutinizer05then a magic makes openssl appear: 0.9.8n -> 0.9.8zf17:23
sicelo-where is this option? "[x]show all packages" "[x]show magic system package" "[ ]ignore packages from wrong domains"17:23
sicelo-i don't see it in HAM here17:23
DocScrutinizer05red pill mode :-)17:24
sicelo-ah17:24
DocScrutinizer05you should see "[ ] enable red pill mode" I guess17:25
sicelo-i've never used RedPill mode .. that's a flasher thing, right?17:26
DocScrutinizer05it enables those additional option in HAM17:26
DocScrutinizer05and that's all it does17:26
sicelo-yes, but how do you even get into Red Pill mode? flasher?17:26
DocScrutinizer05you should see "[ ] enable red pill mode" I guess17:27
sicelo-well i don't see anything like that17:27
DocScrutinizer05iirc it (red pill mode option) is enabled in CSSU-HAM17:27
DocScrutinizer05~redpill17:28
infobothmm... redpill is http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode17:28
buZzwhich packet gets me the 'ip' tool?17:28
KotCzarnyiproute2 or busybox-gnu or something17:28
KotCzarnybut watch out when replacing standard tools17:28
DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode#Activating17:30
DocScrutinizer05buZz: http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=name&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=iputil&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=title&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=same17:31
buZzso, neither? :D17:33
DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/traceroute/  http://maemo.org/packages/view/iproute/ etc17:33
DocScrutinizer05prolly neither, don't know. Let me know if you find it17:33
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DocScrutinizer05it's not like 2ip" is a particularly nice searchstring ;-)17:34
DocScrutinizer05"ip" even17:35
DocScrutinizer05try http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=name&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=ip&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=title&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=same and gave fun17:35
KotCzarnybuzz, check apt-cache search ip2 (but i guess its in iproute)17:35
buZzhmhm, apt-get install iproute17:37
buZzit wasnt in app manager though :(17:37
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DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/iproute/17:42
DocScrutinizer05aah you already found it17:42
DocScrutinizer05no, HAM doesn't usually show cmdline tools17:42
DocScrutinizer05you need redpill mode if you want that17:43
DocScrutinizer05the idea is to use apt-get install for cmdline tools, since this is also cmdline17:43
DocScrutinizer05install GUI tools via HAM GUI, install cmdline tools via apt-get install cmdline17:44
buZzcool cool17:44
DocScrutinizer05makes sense?17:44
buZzi guess :P17:45
buZznot like me disagreeing would change anything ;)17:45
DocScrutinizer05whyt you can find in HAM are the tools to *access* cmdline, kike ssh(d), xterm etc17:46
DocScrutinizer05like*17:46
DocScrutinizer05btw for red pill mode: catalogs: 'new' "URL: 'matrix'" cancel, still works17:53
DocScrutinizer05which is sort of cute ;-)17:54
* DocScrutinizer05 loves easter eggs17:54
DocScrutinizer05to those who love hacking away with web services, autobuilders, midgard, servers at large etc: http://maemo.org/packages/view/openssl/ (as well as all other packages there) lacks integration of CSSU when there's a package released via CSSU(-T|-S)18:01
DocScrutinizer05like http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/openssl/0.9.8g-15maemo4+0m5/  http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/18:02
* DocScrutinizer05 is still lost as to where from that mysterious openssl-0.9.8zf package comes from18:03
bencohfrom cssu?18:07
DocScrutinizer05hmm prolly, I guess so18:09
DocScrutinizer05I'm terribly bad with repositories, git, and similar stuff. Also not exactly an apt expert18:10
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DocScrutinizer05I'm trying to understand why there's an openssl-0.9.8z and if or if not it should have been included to last CSSU-T metapackage for update18:11
DocScrutinizer05openssl-0.9.8zf even18:11
DocScrutinizer05I *guess* CSSU has no nice web interface in http://maemo.org/packages/ since it also has no autobuilder18:12
DocScrutinizer05so I'm lost to investigate stuff with CSSU since such web interface is generally my only known approach to what's going on18:13
DocScrutinizer05I don't even know the sourcecode repo URL of CSSU18:14
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it is in cssu18:14
freemangordonopenssl-zf that is18:15
DocScrutinizer05:nod: assumed as much18:15
freemangordonhttps://github.com/community-ssu/openssl/commits/master18:17
freemangordonhmm, there is something weird18:17
DocScrutinizer05why is that stuff on github and not on maemo.org?18:17
freemangordonwhere on maemo.org?18:18
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KotCzarny:>18:19
DocScrutinizer05err, you're serious?18:19
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DocScrutinizer05ok, let's say garage18:21
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: because cssu has never been there - it was on gitorious, then moved to github18:22
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that doesn't answer my question though :-)18:22
DocScrutinizer05it just feels strange18:23
bencoh18:17 < freemangordon> hmm, there is something weird18:23
bencohwhat's weird?18:23
DocScrutinizer05then, maemo never *really* provided a consistent sourcode repo infra for everything18:23
freemangordonbencoh: there is no zf in the repo18:24
DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/puzzle-master/1.2.2/18:24
KotCzarnyfmg, maybe in testing/thumb2?18:25
DocScrutinizer05enphasis on *source*18:25
bencohfreemangordon: wtf? :D18:25
bencohwell maybe I built mine from source? :D18:25
bencoh(I have a hybrid stable with homebrew packages)18:26
DocScrutinizer05but ignore me, I'm a real noob and prolly a pain to discuss with when it comes to repos and git and stuff18:26
freemangordonor you get it from cssu-devel18:26
KotCzarnybencoh, doc also had zf version of the lib18:26
bencohfreemangordon: nah I don't install from -devel18:26
bencohDocScrutinizer05: gathered that already :D18:26
bencoh(no offense :p)18:26
DocScrutinizer05none taken :-D I mean it18:26
KotCzarnyhttps://github.com/community-ssu/openssl/tree/thumb-testing18:27
KotCzarnyhas zh18:27
freemangordonwell, in cssu-devel is zf as well, so NFC where you got that from :)18:27
freemangordonsorry, zh18:27
bencohfreemangordon: http://repository.maemo.org/community/pool/fremantle/free/o/openssl/libssl-dev_0.9.8zf-1%2bmaemo1%2b0m5%2b0cssu0_armel.deb18:27
freemangordonaah, wait, zh is NEVWER than zf18:28
bencohlooks like zf alright18:28
bencohyeah18:28
freemangordon*NEWER18:28
freemangordonso everything is fine then18:28
KotCzarny:)18:28
bencohin ascii order, h > f :D18:28
freemangordonyeah18:28
bencohunlike qwerty order18:28
KotCzarnyapart from still being 0.9.8 and not 1.x ;)18:28
bencohstrike that18:28
bencoheven in qwerty order :D18:28
freemangordonit is about -12deg here, I suspect my brain is frozen :)18:29
KotCzarnyyou need more ethanol as an antifreeze18:29
freemangordonlooks like18:29
freemangordonwhich reminds me...18:29
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: still, why is there a openssl that's newer than the latest openssl (not) installed by CSSU-T11?18:30
freemangordonbecause it is in cssu-devel18:30
freemangordonremeber devel->testing->stable18:31
freemangordon*remember18:31
DocScrutinizer05no, I don't know of any cssu-devel I ever touched, still my apt-get wants to install the openssl-0.9.8zf18:31
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ask cssu maintainer, I have no idea18:31
freemangordonor....wait18:32
DocScrutinizer05so openssl-0.9.8zf must be in cssu-t repo18:32
freemangordonit wants to install zf?18:32
freemangordonit is ok then, as that was the version supposed to go int -testing some 1-y years ago18:32
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: http://paste.opensuse.org/7473463018:32
freemangordon1-2 years18:32
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: no it's not ok, since as you say >>supposed to go int -testing<< but isn't in cssu-t11 MP18:33
freemangordondunno, ask the maintainers18:33
freemangordonkeep in mind we have new maintainer, maybe he just overlooked it18:34
DocScrutinizer05umm, see http://paste.opensuse.org/74734630 line818:35
freemangordonyeah18:35
DocScrutinizer05I just don't understand if maybe all is fine and cssu-t repo indeed is supposed to provide newer version of stuff that were not included in last metapackage upgrade18:36
bencohnew maintainer hasn't officially released a new version iirc18:36
DocScrutinizer05after all user is _not_ supposed to ever run apt-get upgrade aiui18:37
DocScrutinizer05it's prolly more a question about policies18:37
freemangordonyes, there is still no official release afaik, I guess guys are preparing release18:38
DocScrutinizer05what the cssu architects defined how cssu shall work18:38
freemangordonbut it is moving slow18:38
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: the "official" way to uptade is through HAM and mp- thingie18:38
DocScrutinizer05might be a perfectly normal thing to add new packages after last MP release18:38
freemangordonno, it is not18:38
freemangordonsee ^^^18:39
DocScrutinizer05sorry I don't get it18:39
DocScrutinizer05>>add new packages after last MP release<< is something devels do, while >>uptade is through HAM and mp- thingie<< is a thing users do18:40
freemangordonjust a second18:41
DocScrutinizer05so I don't see why a devel adding a new package can't be something normal18:41
DocScrutinizer05it's a question if according to CSSU policies this is sth devels are allowed to do or not18:42
DocScrutinizer05I had no problem with the openssl-0.9.8zf in HAM, only in apt-get upgrade which is deprecated anyway18:42
DocScrutinizer05what looks weird is CSSU-T changelog that clearly claims openssl got updated, NOT libssl18:45
freemangordonsorry, had a phone call18:45
DocScrutinizer05np :-)18:45
DocScrutinizer05openssl clearly isn't updated via cssu-t11 MP18:46
bencohDocScrutinizer05: openssl zf depends on libssl zf18:46
bencohso it should eventually work18:46
bencoherr, strike that18:47
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: that's no problem since libssl *got* updated via cssu-t11, but _not_ openssl18:47
DocScrutinizer05my openssl still works, see >> IroN900:~# openssl version OpenSSL 0.9.8n 24 Mar 2010 (Library: OpenSSL 0.9.8zf 19 Mar 2015)<<18:48
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: you don;t realy need openssl afaik18:48
freemangordonthis is something you installed by hand18:48
KotCzarnyits just that on normal systems openssl is bundled with libssl18:48
freemangordonso you should upgrade it by hand as well18:48
DocScrutinizer05oooh. this might be it indeed18:48
DocScrutinizer05:-D18:48
freemangordon;)18:48
DocScrutinizer05wow18:49
freemangordonmystery revealed :)18:49
DocScrutinizer05thanks a megaton! :-)18:49
bencohhuhu18:52
DocScrutinizer05hmmm, >>grep openssl installed-aps.sh<< doesn't yield hits, so... This doesn't mean I'm sure I didn't install manually. It's just a string indication I didn't install it manually via "apt-get install openssl" with my apt wrapper in place18:52
DocScrutinizer05might however gotten pulled in as a dependency by another package18:53
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DocScrutinizer05who knows... maybe it's now the moment to shrug and get dinner istead18:54
DocScrutinizer05instead*18:54
DocScrutinizer05maybe the "WARNING" in there is relevant? http://paste.opensuse.org/1745697118:56
DocScrutinizer05hmmm, looks a tad terse, but ok19:00
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# openssl version19:00
DocScrutinizer05OpenSSL 0.9.8zf 19 Mar 201519:00
DocScrutinizer05maybe ubersmart, only listing libssl version when it differs19:01
keriothere's also the issue that RHEL might not patch some stuff19:03
kerioif it's not relevant to RHEL19:03
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DocScrutinizer05to core problem is: maemo's repo concept is fubar (and always been) thanks to Nokia doing lazy with their MP. To somewhat fix it we ages back once defined a way to specify/distinguish mandatory from optional updates in CSSU repo, so eventually we could get rid of that MP crap19:15
kerioit works for me tho19:15
keriolike19:15
kerioi can apt-get upgrade and apt-get autoremove19:15
kerioi just had to set the manually installed packages correctly19:15
DocScrutinizer05apt-get autoremove generally breaks things, at least it did in the past19:16
kerio(and obviously i don't have a -mp)19:16
kerio(because procps)19:16
kerio(and some other package too i think)19:16
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DocScrutinizer05and I actually wonder if an apt-get upgrade with only CSSU repo enabled should yield the intended results and thus was a thing to do every now and then19:17
kerioworksforme \_o_/19:17
kerioyou could also just attempt to install the -mp19:17
kerioand see if anything gets updated19:17
DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/4862986119:19
DocScrutinizer05sorry, you missed something relevant19:19
DocScrutinizer05maybe *you* should do that ;-)19:19
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kerio:o19:21
DocScrutinizer05*I* _did_ apt-get -s install mp-fremantle-community-pr   and the result was everything is just fine19:21
DocScrutinizer05tbh apt-get didn't do much since it noticed the mp-fremantle-community-pr is already up-to-date19:24
keriowell i thought you didn't have the pr19:32
keriojust upgrade19:32
kerioyou can refuse the upgrade19:32
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DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/5289148820:19
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DocScrutinizer05http://termbin.com/ulc120:26
DocScrutinizer05I don't think I want to update community-ssu-enabler20:28
DocScrutinizer05I rather want to uninstall it, thought I already did20:29
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freemangordonguys, anyone interested in helping me with upstream gtk2 fremantle? I need builder/debian repo infra help20:50
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freemangordonand I need help with upstart etc stuff20:51
freemangordon..and with debian packaging/autotools, to forward-port what is in fremantle, trivial, but time-consuming job I'd appreciate help for20:53
freemangordonotherwise the progress is good so far, I have h-d and status-menu running on devuan x86-64 VMware VM, libhildon needs some more love, but I'll take care of it20:55
freemangordonWizzup: KotCzarny: MoeIcenowy: ^^^ ?20:55
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Wizzupfreemangordon: yes, I will help with builder/debian repo infra21:08
WizzupDo you have suggestions on what to start with21:08
WizzupAh, so you're working on intel hw right now, I guess that is easier driver wise21:08
Wizzupfreemangordon: Other than getting the basic things done and reading about it, do you have specific things to do? e.g. start with h-d and its dependencies, then go for status-menu ?21:09
Wizzupok, back in a bit, gotta make my way home through the snow21:11
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buZzhmmf21:15
buZz2gb /home is kinda small :P time for trickery21:15
WizzupI want to try to get the building going on soon, but also see if it's at all possible get an image for the arm tablets autobuild. Likely most of it goes hand in hand.21:16
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DocScrutinizer05~tell buZz about jrtools21:55
DocScrutinizer05buZz: honestly the simplest way to reflash with patched vanilla fiascofile, then restore everything21:56
DocScrutinizer05though, I never seen real need for >2GB home21:57
DocScrutinizer05you most likely even could use BM to restore to 100% identical content of rootfs and /home, after reflashing with larger /home partition. Just take care about MyDocs which will shrink as /home frows, and will not get backed-up (nor restored ;-D) by BM21:59
DocScrutinizer05~bm22:00
infobotbackupmenu is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install22:00
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DocScrutinizer05obviously you want to store your backups on uSD, _not_ in MyDocs, when you want to reflash vanilla22:00
DocScrutinizer05bbl, dinner. Cheers22:01
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freemangordonWizzup: well, as I start I want an autobuilder/repo that pull packages from github and does nigthly builds (of what has benn changed ofc)23:26
freemangordon*been23:26
freemangordonand puts the result in a debian repo23:27
freemangordongoing initially for x86 is not because of the drivers, but because of the VM23:28
freemangordonit is waaay faster23:28
freemangordonnetwork-wise as well - I am opening source files through network, which if done through wifi is very slow23:28
freemangordonbut, there is nothing (or at least should not be) x86-64 specific23:29
freemangordonWizzup: also, do you have any idea about multi-arch?23:30
freemangordonbencoh: BTW, feel invited as well :)23:30
freemangordonjust to note - most of the job (besides clutter and gtk/libhildon stuff) is really trivial23:31
freemangordondeprecated function (like g_thread_init), newer automake, newer debian build system - nothing complicated so far23:32
freemangordon*functions23:32
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