IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2017-01-06

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DocScrutinizer05~listkeys lockcode00:43
infobotFactoid search of 'lockcode' by key (2): defaultlockcode ;; lockcode.00:43
infobotwell, defaultlockcode is 1234500:44
infobotlockcode is, like,
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys #maemo00:44
infobotFactoid search of '#maemo' by key (17 of 114): #maemo 720p ;; #maemo battery ;; #maemo beasttweaks ;; #maemo bnf ;; #maemo closed ;; #maemo dmnc ;; #maemo emmc2 ;; #maemo enum ;; #maemo expired-key ;; #maemo fix-sb ;; #maemo l1_2 ;; #maemo log ;; #maemo maemodead ;; #maemo mce ;; #maemo mcebug ;; #maemo mo/* ;; #maemo mustn't.00:44
infobot720p is probably
infobothmm... polarcell is BL-5J Replacement00:44
infobotsomebody said beasttweaks was
infobotwell, jrtools is
infobotmethinks dmnc is
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infobotjrrepos is probably
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DocScrutinizer05warfare: not afaik01:05
DocScrutinizer05ooh Vajb beat me to it01:06
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Anaskoin short: computer lost count. Going like 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, and hence not unique ids01:11
Anaskoany idea how to take an sql file and recalculate primary id aka unique id for almost thousand of lines in one table?01:11
Anaskobecause manually editing .sql file, to get correct id into 1k INSERT lines , is... time-consuming01:11
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michael_a320~full boot05:31
michael_a320~n900 boot05:31
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Vajbi tried to get more smileys as suggested in telegram post in tmo, but it failed somehow. They don't work. I put thme in /opt and symlinked to /home/user/purple/themes.07:26
Vajbdo they need to be in some specially named folder?07:27
Vajbi have /opt/unicode-emoji-master07:28
Vajband actually symlink is in /home/user/.purple/smileys07:29
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KotCzarnyvajb: if you run your pidgin from terminal via strace pidgin 2>&1 |grep open you will see what dirs/files it tries to access09:03
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Vajbumm is that exact command?09:04
KotCzarnydont know how pidgin is started09:04
KotCzarnybut usually: strace some-app-name 2>&1 | grep open09:05
Vajbk i'll try09:05
Vajbwell at startup it seems to load only libs09:08
KotCzarnythen open messages history09:09
KotCzarnythat should trigger smileys load09:09
Vajbfrom /lib and /user/lib09:09
Vajbnope didn't load anything extra09:11
Vajband smileys were just empty icons or such09:12
Vajbbut i'll let it run and see what else it does09:12
mva> strace pidgin 2>&1 |grep open09:12
mvaevery time you using pipe where it is non needed, god kills a kitten!09:12
mva`strace -eopen -ff pidgin`!09:13
Vajboo different point of view09:13
KotCzarnyvajb, also check what config files it loads09:13
KotCzarnymva: pipes rules the world!09:14
Vajbi think i have slightly different setup here09:14
mvaVajb: by the way09:15
KotCzarnymva, also, keep in mind tools included in default maemo sometimes are severely crippled ones09:15
mvaVajb: strace -eopen,stat,access -ff pidgin09:15
Vajblike i put telegram-purple is /user/.... and it was suggested to put it in /opt and symlink to /user, but could it even make a difference?09:15
mvait can check for existance before opening09:16
KotCzarnyif you see it trying to load something from /usr and not retrying in /opt, then yes09:16
Vajbwell actually it is not loading anything from /opt09:17
KotCzarnymva, good point09:17
Vajbat least so far09:17
KotCzarnysometimes it dynamically loads some image plugin libs09:17
mvaKotCzarny: because they're busybox plugins. But strace is on it's own and it is almost impossible to castrate it at ./configure time ;) // there is only check for libunwind, which is not a case here ;)09:17
KotCzarnyand when failing to do that it wont try to open any images09:17
KotCzarnyofftopic, -16C09:18
KotCzarnywinter finally came09:18
Vajbadd -10 to that09:18
mvathere was -1.5 tonight09:19
Vajbhmm or not add but other way around09:19
mvaand now it is -15 here too :-/09:19
Vajbmeh -26 anyway09:19
KotCzarnyif you add negative number its substracting09:19
KotCzarnyie. a+(-b) == a-b09:19
Vajbok then substract09:19
KotCzarnyso your first sentence was correct too09:20
Vajbhmm neat09:20
mvanever thought it can be colder in Finland than Siberia ;)09:21
mvaalthough, logically it is pretty correct: Siberia is in the middle of continent, and Finland is near an ocean ;)09:22
mva// although again, it is golfstream near Finland, but not for Siberia09:22
mvaoooh, that geography :E09:23
KotCzarnyum, ocean usually warm climate in winter and colds in summer09:23
mvaKotCzarny: say it to Vajb :)09:23
Vajbyes, what KotCzarny said09:23
Vajbbut during winter there is usually cold spell coming from siberia and it chills us09:24
mvaVajb: so, it is -15 in Siberia and -26 in Finland. Where is your "warmer"? :)09:24
Vajbplus also im stationed next to russian border09:24
Vajbeh what can i say? Global warming :D09:25
KotCzarnycontinental climate (as in middle/north of the russia) is much more extreme09:26
Vajbi think that middle siberian "highlands" is coldest place09:30
KotCzarnyyeah, +8km over the sea level is a cold place09:30
Vajbi once saw a set of roadtrip pics from there. It was -63 at tops09:30
Vajband their bottle of vodka started to have some ie in it09:31
Vajbagh gtg bbl09:31
KotCzarnyforgot your vodka outside? ;)09:31
* mva actually, living on a swarms, so it is pretty cold even when it's less temperature than somewhere else :-/09:32
* mva is not Baba Yaga, if any09:33
KotCzarnyyup, even -30C can be comfortable, as long its dry and calm (no wind)09:33
Monsieuri once skiing at -35C ... it was like a frozen nightmare09:36
Michael_a380Thanks for your help yesterday, DocS & others. "Remotely rebooting", might be the easiest option for now. Will have to get another cable to try shorting D+/-.09:37
Michael_a380 DocScrutinizer05: Sorry for the silence yesterday, was a shared desktop. I am using PR1.3. I'm still in "ground school" & have had a few hrs in a Jabiru.09:39
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Michael_a380KotCzarny: RE (keeping n900's battery >90% all the time isnt healthy though). Rebooting the phone at <80%, sound like the better option?09:44
KotCzarnyMichael_a380: it's about li-ion battery properties09:45
KotCzarnythey dislike keeping at low and high charges09:45
KotCzarnywhich results in faster material deterioration09:45
KotCzarnywhich results in faster capacity loss09:46
Michael_a380Hmm, I guees my dad kills the car battery when he often charges it from the mains.09:46
KotCzarnyin extreme cases growing crystals inside could pierce insulation and create shorts09:46
KotCzarnycar battery is lead based, it prefers being 100% all the time09:46
Michael_a380of course, cheers09:47
KotCzarnythough overcharging (too high charging voltage) will result in losing electrolyte09:47
KotCzarnyif its bubbling, its bad09:48
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sixwheeledbeastcar batteries are lead acid so different technology and charged differently.10:12
sixwheeledbeastWhen a li-ion battery is shorted say goodbye to it, thermal discharge will occur and battery will be unsafe to use.10:14
KotCzarnyshorting car battery isnt particularly safe either, 400A ftw! ;)10:15
Michael_a380The sparks are exciting tho10:16
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Michael_a380I sent my n900 x50 SMS messeges. After 42 messeges the phone stopped the "SMS alert sound". Once I unlocked the screen, I viewed the yellow box message saying "42 unread messeges". Once the SMS were "marked as read", the undelivered messages flooded in.    This all took place in the same location with very good celluler reception. All the messeges were "SMScon commands".11:29
Michael_a380*Once the SMS [all the messeges where] "marked as read"11:30
Michael_a380*sigh*   Anyone heard of this before (n900 blocking any further SMS when already having loads of unread messeges) ?11:31
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KotCzarnymaybe its specific to smscon11:34
KotCzarnycheck it's docs/config11:35
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Michael_a380Just sent some "gibberish messeges" and it's going through fine with x100+ unread messeges.11:46
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KotCzarnythen definitely some failsafe in smscon11:50
KotCzarnyor in your service provider11:51
KotCzarnymaybe they throttle?11:51
Michael_a380Once the remaining "undelivered messeges" came through, SMScon flooded its responses.11:52
Michael_a380Ah yes, maybe. I didn't set the "master phone number". Nothing comes up with search terms, "SMScon" & "unread" for TMO. I'll see if I can recreate the problem. Thanks.11:57
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KotCzarnyMichael_a380: dont rely on tmo's search function, its broken12:24
KotCzarnyuse google12:24
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* jonwil wonders what 2017 will bring for the magical device that is the N900? :)12:41
auenffor mine, it would be a new battery if it wants to stay on for longer than 3hrs12:42
jonwilMy wish is to see software improvements that benefit the N90012:49
jonwilNot the "lets run Maemo on other devices" stuff or the "lets run things on generic linux" stuff but improvments that I can run myself on my own N900 :)12:50
mvajonwil: then port Tizen to N900 :D12:50
jonwilNot interested in Tizen or SFOS or any other OS, I want improvements to the Maemo OS I have on the thing12:51
mvait is pretty hard to improve maemo, as you can see12:52
mvait's UI is mostly deplrecated gtk2 (and kludges), SDK recommends to use Qt4 (deprecated too), using 2.6.28 kernel (released in 2010)...12:53
mvathere is so much places to work, that it is easier to commit suicide, than made it modern...12:54
mvaso, for now, it is only way to use it, is to use it "as is", continuing backporting modern applications as they needed12:56
jonwilCompared to what the last Nokia stock release is, lots of improvements have been made to Maemo via CSSU etc12:57
jonwilI want to see that continue12:57
jonwilI want to see more of the OS reverse engineered and cloned :)12:57
mvain first year or two after abandonning N900 by nokia12:57
mvathen even CSSU get frozen12:58
mva  jonwil │ I want to see that continue12:58
jonwilIf I can figure out how to parse Google GTFS data in a way I can use on my N900 then I intend to write an app that works with my local public transport operator12:58
mvame too, but... As I said, it is so much work, that no one want to take his life on it (and it is impossible to make it if you're a group of about 5 ppl)12:59
KotCzarnyto be honest, gtk2 is fine enough to run any app13:05
KotCzarnyand backporting isnt that complicated too13:06
sicelo-jonwil: still no luck on that gtfs thing or just didn't have time?13:32
jonwilNo luck with it13:32
sicelo-eew :(13:32
jonwilEven if its limited to old versions of software, the N900 is still far better than anything from crApple :)13:35
KotCzarnyoscp uses newest libs!13:36
jonwilI meant core system libraries13:36
KotCzarnyyes, but i'm saying that its not the ultimate cripple13:36
jonwilyeah its not13:36
KotCzarnyand that new software can run (not all, but its possible)13:37
jonwilmy point is that regardless of any obsolete libraries we may be stuck with, the N900 and its Maemo OS is still far better than the alternatives.13:43
jonwilI wouldn't use an iPhone if someone gave me one for free...13:44
KotCzarnyit all depends on use case, if one want game console, one buys game console. if one wants linux mini tablet with hw kb and phone, one buys n90013:45
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jonwilFor my perspective its better :)13:48
jonwilThe N900 is the most open and hackable phone out there except for a few niche things that are basically unobtainable.13:49
jonwiland is far more open than anything from Apple, Google or MS13:49
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Oksanaahead -n 90298 db3.sql | tail -n 718 | gawk -F 'ES\\(|,' 'BEGIN{OFS=","}{$2=$2+27;print $0}' | sed "s/VALU,/VALUES(/" >> was the line I used to anti-duplicate primary-unique keys in el-v1.db14:48
KotCzarnyoksana, you should store those bits of tricks on your wiki user page14:48
KotCzarnyie. w.m.o14:49
OksanaaCould, yes. Note that this trick would transform a E S ( part of IM or SMS into a comma, unless it was part of VALUES(. But humans rarely write in CAPS LOCK.14:53
KotCzarnynot true14:54
KotCzarnyandroid capitalizes words14:54
OksanaaWhy would Android encourage ALL CAPS? And there is probably a cleaner way to do the same ^, likely14:56
KotCzarnyyou mean its longer words?14:56
KotCzarnyahm, reread it again14:56
Oksanaahead -n 90298 db3.sql | tail -n 718 | gawk -F ' VALUES\\(|,' 'BEGIN{OFS=","}{$2=$2+27;print $0}' | sed "s/\"Events\",/\"Events\" VALUES(/" >> No idea whether it works14:58
jon_yno sort -u? :)14:59
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DocScrutinizer05keeping battery at >90% is not known to cause any harm15:53
DocScrutinizer05on lead acid overcharging also causes sulfatation15:55
DocScrutinizer05you really should read a few dozen articles at
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DocScrutinizer05keeping battery floating at 100% charge and still all the time trickle charging it - known to cause massive harm to LiIon16:02
KotCzarnyproblem is keeping it <100% when connected to power source16:03
DocScrutinizer05why the heck would anybody want to do this?16:07
DocScrutinizer05my N900 evidently has no problem, it keeps battery at 100% 6 of 7 days a week 24h, since 5 years, and the nattery was always pretty fine for its age16:10
DocScrutinizer05eventually I need to check the battery in the T900 which is running pre-1.2 and thus doing the 30s charging every 300s since 5 years 24/7/36516:12
DocScrutinizer05last time I 'stole' the charger plug from it, I noticed the missing charging after 6 days where it still was alive16:13
DocScrutinizer05which means the battery is at least at 50% after those 5 years16:14
KotCzarnydoc, just what i've said:
KotCzarnyminimize full and empty areas16:24
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DocScrutinizer05what the heck are you referring to? nothing like that on this page can be found by me16:42
KotCzarny How to prolong battery:16:43
KotCzarny Keep cool. Operate in mid SoC of 20–80%. Prevent ultra-fast charging and high loads (most Li-ion)16:43
DocScrutinizer05yes, ideally you're cycling between max 20% and 80% max, that doesn't say **keepoing* battery at 100% will do any further harm except of the one time charging to 100%16:45
DocScrutinizer05so this is actually a point against what you recommend16:45
DocScrutinizer05also LiIon batteries are said to be considered worn out after 5 years, no matter of theyre used or not. I *use* some LiIon since 7 years and keep them floating at 100% all the time, and since they are good batteries with very low self discharge (this is not a warranted property of all LiIon) they still are better than 60% capacity16:51
DocScrutinizer05the very low self discharge is a mandatory prerequisite for the battery not eating _any_ current while floating at charge_end voltage. If it would constantly draw current under that operation conditions, it would age pretty quickly16:53
DocScrutinizer05which is the rationale behind the "do not keep floating at 100% in charger" advice16:53
KotCzarnymaybe nokia knew a bit or two about li-ion and charge stops earlier than on other cells16:54
DocScrutinizer05batteries that do not taper down to 0mA at charge end voltage actually MUST get disconnected from charger and only get recharged after they discharged to a certain lower voltage threshold, either by load or by self discharge16:55
DocScrutinizer05nom the don't stop at all, do you read what I wrote?16:55
DocScrutinizer05they charge to 4268mV usually16:56
KotCzarnythen it stops earlier. standard is to charge to 4.216:56
DocScrutinizer05which is close enough to the supposedly recommended 420016:57
DocScrutinizer05please do your math before chiming in here with claims. this is less that 1%16:57
KotCzarnyyou've seen those charge curves16:58
KotCzarnywhen it changes from linear to exponential 1% might not be the same16:58
DocScrutinizer05I *really* tried it, it's not bearable16:59
KotCzarnyin effect on longevity16:59
DocScrutinizer051% is prolly well below the precision of the metering equipment, so...17:00
DocScrutinizer05I'm glad I got an ignore list17:00
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DocScrutinizer05btw it's true you should *store* batteries at max 70% charge, at low but NOT freezing temperatures17:10
DocScrutinizer05for achieving max lifetime17:10
DocScrutinizer05it's also true you can run (LiIon all, also above) batteries in a special low-wear mode where you keep them charged to 80% only for even longer than specified lifetime and cyclecount. Particularly when those batteries are in device like laptop where they are all the time at elevated temperatures17:12
DocScrutinizer05none of all this *really* says you must not keep LiIon at 100% charge17:13
DocScrutinizer05a note on some previous claim that came up here: nowadays a non-negligible fraction of car starter batteries are actually LiIon, not lead acid17:19
DocScrutinizer05and they are all kept at 100% if any possible17:20
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DocScrutinizer05and again, to keep it utterly unambiguous: while pre-PR1.2 actually shuts down charging at end of charge voltage, and enters a ~15..30s ConstantVoltage (4200mV) charging during a 300s(?) period, PR1.3 *never* switches off charging and keeps battery afloat at charger providing 4200mV constant voltage17:34
DocScrutinizer05this is most likely a bug from power consumption introduced by keeping USB MUSB-core, PHY et al enabled all the time, while on wallwart charger17:35
DocScrutinizer05so the device never reaches charge-end current threshold which is iirc 16 (maybe 30) mA17:35
DocScrutinizer05well, I'm not absolutely sure if maybe eventually the BQ24150 watchdog time (4h?) kicks in, terminating the charging hard17:36
DocScrutinizer05but then the 300s/Xs taper charging by BME would re-enable charging after max 300s17:37
DocScrutinizer05the once-per-300s taper charging - until charge end current stops it after a maybe 15s - is indeed a almost sane thing, by concept. It however should stop hard after 30s, not keep charging infinitely on batteries with high self discharge rate, for those this scheme is a killer17:41
DocScrutinizer05then a battery with such high self discharge rate is considered dead anyway and should get discarded and replaced by a good one17:42
DocScrutinizer05around 4400h17:44
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DocScrutinizer05so a sane battery should not have a leakage current > 1300mAh/4400h17:45
DocScrutinizer05normal self discharge is one or two orders of magnitude lower17:47
DocScrutinizer05on quality LiIon batteries17:47
DocScrutinizer05so all my batteries are floating on charger attached at 4168mV@0.0mA average17:48
DocScrutinizer05if yours doesn't and consumes current constantly, discard it!17:49
DocScrutinizer05and no, my LiIon do not exactly suffer undue harm and damage from this scheme17:49
DocScrutinizer05as a >60% after 5 years 24/7 proves17:50
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DocScrutinizer05((so the device never reaches charge-end current threshold)) this is due to the charger chip not only charging battery but also providing power to the complete system, and it can't discern between the two sinks17:56
DocScrutinizer05so BQ24150 never will see charge end current threshold reached when system consumes significant power. BQ27200 gas gauge chip otoh *can* measure clean plain battery current, but this is not used to control the charger chip17:58
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DocScrutinizer05BME might once have been meant to implement such correct battery current control via BQ27200 and feedback to BQ24150, but obviously it fails miserably on that task if it ever really been the task18:01
DocScrutinizer05BME replacement is kernel based afaik, and probably any developer would get fatal headache from fighting agaonst layering violations when they tried to implement it in a upstream-able fashion18:03
DocScrutinizer05in my book this isn't a kernel issue but actually best handled in a userland app that has all the knowledge about battery management18:05
DocScrutinizer05just like initiating a call on modem isn't a kernel task18:06
DocScrutinizer05(car starter batteries) because of LiIon: ~250-~340 W/kg, vs Lead Acid 180 W/kg18:13
DocScrutinizer05and Lead Acid 33–42 Wh/kg  vs LiIon 100–265 W·h/kg18:14
KotCzarnysaving 2-3kg for a hell of maintenance18:15
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KotCzarnyespecially in colder/hotter climates18:15
DocScrutinizer05you can save up to 80% of weight with swapping lead acid for LiIon in a car18:16
KotCzarny80% of weitgh which is how much, 0.1% of car weigh?18:16
DocScrutinizer05possibly 90%18:16
KotCzarnyand in the case of car accident you have a bomb under the hood18:17
DocScrutinizer05plus LiIon is maintenance free18:17
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DocScrutinizer05and thanks to higher power per kg, you may get away with lower capacity, after all you don't need 60Ah*12V to start an engine18:18
DocScrutinizer05assuming you need a maybe 150A, from a power POV you may get away with 15Ah high power LiIon18:20
DocScrutinizer05NB those latter 4 or 5 lines are numbers right from my rear18:21
DocScrutinizer05anyway according to the math, a 50Ah Lead Acid weighs ~18kg - quite worthy target for optimizations18:24
DocScrutinizer05oops sorry typo: 60ah18:24
DocScrutinizer05hmmm 14kg
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DocScrutinizer05 weight 9kg, weird how little it saves on weight18:30
DocScrutinizer05well, ok LiFePo18:30
DocScrutinizer05which have other benefits over "normal" LiIon18:31
DocScrutinizer05not exactly car starter, but nice summary of benefits:
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DocScrutinizer05>>Up to 80 percent lighter and 5X the life of a lead acid<<
sixwheeledbeastYes, Lithium will always provide more power per kilo, lithium atoms are smaller than lead.18:47
L29AhWizzup: SUP18:48
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L29AhLiFePo is 50% lighter than lead18:49
L29Ahand 2,5 heavier than LiIon18:49
DocScrutinizer05hehe yes. anyway see how they "cheat" on last one I linked: "Pb Eq(uals): 7.9ah"  but "25.6Wh"18:49
DocScrutinizer05which in my book makes slightly over 2Ah18:50
DocScrutinizer05L29Ah: ack, many thanks for clearing it18:50
L29Ahalso lifepo can give away a lot more power, like 300C18:51
L29Ahawesome for starting a car using a tiny cheap immortal cell18:51
DocScrutinizer05:nod: that's why they may 'cheat' like this18:51
* sixwheeledbeast is waiting for a Hydrogen Fuel Cell the size of BL-5J18:52
DocScrutinizer052Ah * 300C = 600A18:52
KotCzarnyswb: +118:52
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DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: I wish they finally would come to market with one of the several prototypes they had during last maybe 10 years18:53
sixwheeledbeastMay even get a years charge out of it.18:53
L29Ahnah they're not that energy dense18:54
* sixwheeledbeast assumes oil companies have jumped on the tech and won't let go.18:54
DocScrutinizer05the benefit is: refuel them with e.g. ethanol18:54
L29Ahthey're like 10x of the state-of-art LiIon18:54
KotCzarnyl29ah, but much much more reusable18:54
DocScrutinizer05(not the hydrogen ones)18:54
L29AhKotCzarny: afair the prototypes have problems with longevity18:55
L29Ahalso storing hydrogen is not a simple task18:55
KotCzarnyL29Ah: that's why they are prototypes and not market ready products18:56
L29Ahit will permeate everything if it's not chemically bound18:56
sixwheeledbeastStore as water?18:56
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DocScrutinizer05use hydrocarbon e.g. ethanol or methanol18:59
L29Ahsixwheeledbeast: and you have a perpetuum mobile18:59
KotCzarnythere are no perpetuum mobiles in this universe19:00
L29Ahit takes more energy to break water down than to burn hydrogen in a fuel cell19:00
DocScrutinizer05it's quite wasteful since the carbon is oxidized and just creates heat for nothing, but it somewhat works nicely, particularly for "storing hydrogen"19:00
sixwheeledbeastNot as efficient as hydrogen granted. hydrocarbon would be like going back 30 years19:01
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WizzupL29Ah: hi19:01
* DocScrutinizer05 recalls a fuel cell working with methanol(?) that was like 200cm^319:01
L29Ah not many info re performance :/19:02
KotCzarny'my car didnt start today. why? someone drank my battery to the bottom' :P19:03
sixwheeledbeastWell at least they couldn't steal it19:04
WizzupL29Ah: you poked me for a reason?19:04
L29AhWizzup: yes, you forgot about your plans to make plans and i wonder how are you and whether i should expect you to do that19:05
KotCzarnyl29ah: he got new toy19:05
WizzupYou've seen the maemo thread, right?19:05
WizzupKotCzarny: I ... what?19:05
KotCzarnywizzup, a33 tablet19:05
WizzupL29Ah: That's ... part of the whole plan :)19:05
KotCzarnyor i've confused the people19:06
WizzupI specifically got the tablet for this19:06
L29Ah what19:06
L29AhWizzup: i've seen the "organized" thread; what thread are you talking about?19:06
WizzupL29Ah: I also got a few tablets for devuan people in amsterdam19:06
WizzupL29Ah: the organised thread also asked for people who want to help to specifically say that19:06
Wizzupso far I haven't seen anyone else say that they want to pick up any tasks19:06
L29Ahi don't really get why do you want to stick to the tablets19:07
WizzupI don't19:07
KotCzarnytablets are easy to do dev on19:07
L29Ahas they have a lot of problems on they own19:07
KotCzarnyyes, those specific tablets are19:07
L29Ahqemu-user is easy to do dev on19:07
WizzupThe next two main things are: 1) start autobuilding packages for devuan, 2) get an image that we can run on some devices for testing19:07
KotCzarnyqemu-user doesnt do touch on display19:07
Wizzupand I think I also mention VMs in that thread19:07
L29Ahk i guess i suck and should buy another n900 to be of any use19:08
Wizzuphow so?19:08
WizzupI don't think that's true19:08
L29Ahi don't know debian and i don't want to be offline on my main n90019:08
L29Ahfor long19:08
WizzupL29Ah: you can use qemu-arm for most/all of that, correc19:09
KotCzarnyl29ah, grab a33 tablet, they go very cheap19:09
KotCzarnyeven cheaper than use n90019:09
WizzupL29Ah: I also don't ``know'' debian19:09
Wizzupbut how hard can it be :)19:09
KotCzarnywizzup: dpkg is hell19:09
Wizzup(finishing what I wanted to say) ... it's been about two weeks since any status update I think, because I got _completely_ flooded with work, been working till deep in the night every day19:09
WizzupKotCzarny: devuan has pretty nice auto build systems19:09
L29AhKotCzarny: cheaper than $30?19:10
Wizzupand most of the packages fmg and others have on github already have scripts to build it19:10
KotCzarnyl29ah, something in that range19:10
WizzupL29Ah: I think there's a few reasons we took some of these tablets -- more ram, still similar (relatively small screen), same instruction set, and the realisation to also move beyond the n900 at some point19:11
Wizzupthat doesn't mean not also making verything work on the n90019:11
Wizzupit just means we need to target *MORE* than just the n90019:11
KotCzarny36usd, free shipping19:11
WizzupKotCzarny: and who knows what you'll get19:11
KotCzarnyshitty screen though19:11
WizzupI think the n900 is also a good target - I have spent quite some time on getting the tablet drivers in shape19:11
KotCzarnyonly 640x48019:11
L29Ah $3419:13
KotCzarny38usd, 1024x60019:13
KotCzarny512MB vs 256 :P19:13
WizzupKotCzarny: the n900 has pretty great support19:13
DocScrutinizer05  hmmm19:13
KotCzarnyahm, this one is only a2319:14
Wizzupwe just need to get devuan images with n900 kernel (pali or mainline), with pvr drivers and stuff set up19:14
L29Ahzero info :(19:14
Wizzupsame for the tablets19:14
KotCzarnywizzup, anyone managed to get pvr blob running on mainline?19:14
WizzupI think fmg19:14
WizzupL29Ah: anyhow, when I get home in a few days I will be more relaxed, right now I can mostly think of work19:15
Wizzuptoo much crap to do :/19:15
Wizzupif you want to start _now_ I can send you info that devuan folks gave me when I asked about auto building19:15
WizzupThey have a nice system, and we'll need git(lab) accounts and some ci hooks to get things going19:16
WizzupAnd then we're very close to just getting a repo where it gets auto build into19:16
WizzupL29Ah: but I do need to know what you're interested in, or what you'd like to pick up19:18
L29Ahare you talking about automatic image builds?19:19
Wizzupnot images, but repos19:19
Wizzupdebian repos19:19
Wizzupso you can add a repo to apt sources and it'll get our maemo-specific packages in there19:20
L29Ahdo we need those? won't upstream ones do?19:20
Wizzupe.g. h-d19:20
L29Ahah, maemo-specific19:20
L29Ahwe don't need them now tho19:20
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L29Ahas we don't know even if they'll build and work on the new kernel19:21
L29Ahi guess i have a messed up dependency graph in my head19:21
WizzupL29Ah: so the maemo specific things are being ported over to 'mainline' sw, e.g. gtk319:23
Wizzupwhere we do not require specific patches to said sw19:23
L29Ah this SUCKS19:24
L29Ahi can have 10W*h in a 18650 weighing 45g19:24
L29Ahand it's cheap and rechargeable19:24
DocScrutinizer05hmm while leaves me totally puzzled, it also gives me ideas along using a Peltier with arbitrary heat sources like handwarmer pocket ovens, heat pads, parabolic mirror, even medical products that heat from oxidizing some iron dust or whatever19:30
L29Ahpeltier is 1% efficient19:31
L29Ahand bulky as hell19:31
L29Ahas you need to enclose your heat source to get all the energy19:32
L29Ahalso you need to be careful not to overheat it19:32
L29Ahand at the same time you need to heat it more for better efficiency19:32
DocScrutinizer05ugh really? 1% only?19:32
L29Ahsmth like that19:32
DocScrutinizer05hard to believe they'd use such poor efficiency item in cooling boxes for 12V car / camping operation19:33
L29Ahstirling engines are a lot more efficient but are very expensive and not that good at longevity on small scales19:33
L29Ahthey're like 5x less efficient at cooling than traditional compressor setups you can see in fridges afair19:34
DocScrutinizer05or is the efficiency vastly asymmetric?19:34
L29Ahbut they come in simple and small packages19:34
L29Ahwell, you can't really compare cooling efficiency and the power generating one19:34
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OksanaaHi :-)23:22
ff_what's going on here? ;>23:24
L29Ahallah is doing23:24
* DocScrutinizer05 0 DocScrutinizer05 1 2 3 xxY23:24
ff_i don't see any users23:25
OksanaaRepaired duplicate primary-unique keys problem in el-v1.db recently. Wonder where it came from.23:25
ff_what is he doing?23:25
OksanaaHow is it possible to see no users when there are 100+ maemo users on the channel?23:26
KotCzarnysimple, broken client or drunk23:26
ff_i use uzbl client23:27
ff_in n90023:27
sixwheeledbeast158 people in room...23:27
ff_it's good to know, thx23:28
sixwheeledbeastat least 5 have been conscious in the last 10 mins23:29
ff_some change in options helped, you are visible to me now23:34
OksanaaUzbl?.. Interesting, what is that? Okay...
ff_is el-v1.db database with sms, contacts and others? what magic can we do with it?23:35
ff_usually i use opera, but captcha didn't work, so next client23:37
Oksanaael-v1.db contains SMS, call history, IMs. Not sure what else. I usually make do with MicroB, and sometimes Fennec.23:38
L29Ahuzbl on n900?23:43
L29Ahsounds sick23:43
Vajbi can recommend irssi for the client of choice when on n90023:43
OksanaaIrssi is good, but I like telepathy-idle integration. Granted, telepathy-idle is very featureless.23:44
ff_i check it, this is for quit test23:45
Vajbtelepathy idle integrates to default imclient?23:46
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OksanaaYes :-)23:46
Vajbdoes it do anything but idle?23:46
OksanaaSend plain messages. Show list of participants. Authenticate to services, with option for SSL. There is invite, even.23:48
Vajbhmm maybe i'll give it a go23:49
Vajbwould be nice to have one program less open since telegram-purple can't be minimized to tray23:49
OksanaaNo /me or /commands, though. But joining a chat room or sending private messages is possible ; just, while one IRC user can be added to abook, chat room is not as intuitive.23:50
Vajbhmm maybe they could be implemented?23:50
OksanaaLike, I can add Vajb to Contacts, I cannot add #maemo to contacts. And actually, I am more frustrated with its handling of multiple IRC servers; when adding Vajb to Contacts, I cannot specify that it's on Freenode.23:51
OksanaaYes, I think that improvements could be made :-)  Like, there is no Reconnect button for an IRC connection, nor does it reliably automatically reconnect, hence I press many buttons to reconnect manually, on a daily basis. But that may be just my WiFi.23:54
Vajbhmm that multiple server flaw is kind of turn of to me tho23:55
Vajbsince irssi does that very well23:56
OksanaaIf you speak with the same people and the same channels all the time, you can easily return to them from Conversations window, without any multiple server problems.23:57
OksanaaJust, jumping from Contacts to IRC will mean choosing the server for the Contact all the time, since abook doesn't know on which server the person is.23:58
Vajbi see23:59
Vajbso maybe adressbokk needs a field for that23:59

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