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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys lockcode | 00:43 |
|---|---|---|
| infobot | Factoid search of 'lockcode' by key (2): defaultlockcode ;; lockcode. | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~defaultlockcode | 00:44 |
| infobot | well, defaultlockcode is 12345 | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~lockcode | 00:44 |
| infobot | lockcode is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522 | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys #maemo | 00:44 |
| infobot | Factoid search of '#maemo' by key (17 of 114): #maemo 720p ;; #maemo battery ;; #maemo beasttweaks ;; #maemo bnf ;; #maemo closed ;; #maemo dmnc ;; #maemo emmc2 ;; #maemo enum ;; #maemo expired-key ;; #maemo fix-sb ;; #maemo l1_2 ;; #maemo log ;; #maemo maemodead ;; #maemo mce ;; #maemo mcebug ;; #maemo mo/* ;; #maemo mustn't. | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~720p | 00:44 |
| infobot | 720p is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=77695 | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~battery | 00:44 |
| infobot | hmm... polarcell is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390402445382 BL-5J Replacement | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-))) | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~beasttweaks | 00:45 |
| infobot | somebody said beasttweaks was http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast/Scripts | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 00:45 |
| infobot | well, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 00:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | hello/ | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dmnc | 00:46 |
| infobot | methinks dmnc is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1467839 | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1467566&postcount=107 | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrrepos | 00:59 |
| infobot | jrrepos is probably http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/ | 00:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: not afaik | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh Vajb beat me to it | 01:06 |
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| Anasko | in short: computer lost count. Going like 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 4, and hence not unique ids | 01:11 |
| Anasko | any idea how to take an sql file and recalculate primary id aka unique id for almost thousand of lines in one table? | 01:11 |
| Anasko | because manually editing .sql file, to get correct id into 1k INSERT lines , is... time-consuming | 01:11 |
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| michael_a320 | ~full boot | 05:31 |
| michael_a320 | ~n900 boot | 05:31 |
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| Vajb | i tried to get more smileys as suggested in telegram post in tmo, but it failed somehow. They don't work. I put thme in /opt and symlinked to /home/user/purple/themes. | 07:26 |
| Vajb | do they need to be in some specially named folder? | 07:27 |
| Vajb | i have /opt/unicode-emoji-master | 07:28 |
| Vajb | and actually symlink is in /home/user/.purple/smileys | 07:29 |
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| KotCzarny | vajb: if you run your pidgin from terminal via strace pidgin 2>&1 |grep open you will see what dirs/files it tries to access | 09:03 |
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| Vajb | umm is that exact command? | 09:04 |
| KotCzarny | dont know how pidgin is started | 09:04 |
| KotCzarny | but usually: strace some-app-name 2>&1 | grep open | 09:05 |
| Vajb | k i'll try | 09:05 |
| Vajb | well at startup it seems to load only libs | 09:08 |
| KotCzarny | then open messages history | 09:09 |
| KotCzarny | that should trigger smileys load | 09:09 |
| Vajb | from /lib and /user/lib | 09:09 |
| Vajb | nope didn't load anything extra | 09:11 |
| Vajb | and smileys were just empty icons or such | 09:12 |
| Vajb | but i'll let it run and see what else it does | 09:12 |
| mva | > strace pidgin 2>&1 |grep open | 09:12 |
| mva | every time you using pipe where it is non needed, god kills a kitten! | 09:12 |
| mva | `strace -eopen -ff pidgin`! | 09:13 |
| Vajb | oo different point of view | 09:13 |
| KotCzarny | vajb, also check what config files it loads | 09:13 |
| KotCzarny | mva: pipes rules the world! | 09:14 |
| KotCzarny | *rule | 09:14 |
| Vajb | i think i have slightly different setup here | 09:14 |
| mva | Vajb: by the way | 09:15 |
| KotCzarny | mva, also, keep in mind tools included in default maemo sometimes are severely crippled ones | 09:15 |
| mva | Vajb: strace -eopen,stat,access -ff pidgin | 09:15 |
| Vajb | like i put telegram-purple is /user/.... and it was suggested to put it in /opt and symlink to /user, but could it even make a difference? | 09:15 |
| mva | it can check for existance before opening | 09:16 |
| KotCzarny | if you see it trying to load something from /usr and not retrying in /opt, then yes | 09:16 |
| Vajb | well actually it is not loading anything from /opt | 09:17 |
| KotCzarny | mva, good point | 09:17 |
| Vajb | at least so far | 09:17 |
| KotCzarny | sometimes it dynamically loads some image plugin libs | 09:17 |
| mva | KotCzarny: because they're busybox plugins. But strace is on it's own and it is almost impossible to castrate it at ./configure time ;) // there is only check for libunwind, which is not a case here ;) | 09:17 |
| KotCzarny | and when failing to do that it wont try to open any images | 09:17 |
| KotCzarny | offtopic, -16C | 09:18 |
| KotCzarny | winter finally came | 09:18 |
| Vajb | add -10 to that | 09:18 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 09:18 |
| mva | uhm | 09:18 |
| mva | there was -1.5 tonight | 09:19 |
| Vajb | hmm or not add but other way around | 09:19 |
| mva | and now it is -15 here too :-/ | 09:19 |
| Vajb | meh -26 anyway | 09:19 |
| KotCzarny | if you add negative number its substracting | 09:19 |
| KotCzarny | ie. a+(-b) == a-b | 09:19 |
| Vajb | ok then substract | 09:19 |
| KotCzarny | so your first sentence was correct too | 09:20 |
| Vajb | hmm neat | 09:20 |
| mva | uhm | 09:21 |
| mva | never thought it can be colder in Finland than Siberia ;) | 09:21 |
| mva | although, logically it is pretty correct: Siberia is in the middle of continent, and Finland is near an ocean ;) | 09:22 |
| mva | // although again, it is golfstream near Finland, but not for Siberia | 09:22 |
| mva | oooh, that geography :E | 09:23 |
| KotCzarny | um, ocean usually warm climate in winter and colds in summer | 09:23 |
| KotCzarny | *warms | 09:23 |
| KotCzarny | *chills | 09:23 |
| mva | KotCzarny: say it to Vajb :) | 09:23 |
| Vajb | yes, what KotCzarny said | 09:23 |
| Vajb | but during winter there is usually cold spell coming from siberia and it chills us | 09:24 |
| mva | Vajb: so, it is -15 in Siberia and -26 in Finland. Where is your "warmer"? :) | 09:24 |
| Vajb | plus also im stationed next to russian border | 09:24 |
| Vajb | eh what can i say? Global warming :D | 09:25 |
| KotCzarny | continental climate (as in middle/north of the russia) is much more extreme | 09:26 |
| Vajb | i think that middle siberian "highlands" is coldest place | 09:30 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, +8km over the sea level is a cold place | 09:30 |
| Vajb | i once saw a set of roadtrip pics from there. It was -63 at tops | 09:30 |
| Vajb | and their bottle of vodka started to have some ie in it | 09:31 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 09:31 |
| Vajb | agh gtg bbl | 09:31 |
| KotCzarny | forgot your vodka outside? ;) | 09:31 |
| * mva actually, living on a swarms, so it is pretty cold even when it's less temperature than somewhere else :-/ | 09:32 | |
| * mva is not Baba Yaga, if any | 09:33 | |
| KotCzarny | yup, even -30C can be comfortable, as long its dry and calm (no wind) | 09:33 |
| Monsieur | i once skiing at -35C ... it was like a frozen nightmare | 09:36 |
| Michael_a380 | Thanks for your help yesterday, DocS & others. "Remotely rebooting", might be the easiest option for now. Will have to get another cable to try shorting D+/-. | 09:37 |
| Michael_a380 | DocScrutinizer05: Sorry for the silence yesterday, was a shared desktop. I am using PR1.3. I'm still in "ground school" & have had a few hrs in a Jabiru. | 09:39 |
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| Michael_a380 | KotCzarny: RE (keeping n900's battery >90% all the time isnt healthy though). Rebooting the phone at <80%, sound like the better option? | 09:44 |
| KotCzarny | Michael_a380: it's about li-ion battery properties | 09:45 |
| KotCzarny | they dislike keeping at low and high charges | 09:45 |
| KotCzarny | which results in faster material deterioration | 09:45 |
| KotCzarny | which results in faster capacity loss | 09:46 |
| Michael_a380 | Hmm, I guees my dad kills the car battery when he often charges it from the mains. | 09:46 |
| KotCzarny | in extreme cases growing crystals inside could pierce insulation and create shorts | 09:46 |
| KotCzarny | car battery is lead based, it prefers being 100% all the time | 09:46 |
| Michael_a380 | of course, cheers | 09:47 |
| KotCzarny | though overcharging (too high charging voltage) will result in losing electrolyte | 09:47 |
| KotCzarny | if its bubbling, its bad | 09:48 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | car batteries are lead acid so different technology and charged differently. | 10:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | When a li-ion battery is shorted say goodbye to it, thermal discharge will occur and battery will be unsafe to use. | 10:14 |
| KotCzarny | shorting car battery isnt particularly safe either, 400A ftw! ;) | 10:15 |
| Michael_a380 | The sparks are exciting tho | 10:16 |
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| Michael_a380 | I sent my n900 x50 SMS messeges. After 42 messeges the phone stopped the "SMS alert sound". Once I unlocked the screen, I viewed the yellow box message saying "42 unread messeges". Once the SMS were "marked as read", the undelivered messages flooded in. This all took place in the same location with very good celluler reception. All the messeges were "SMScon commands". | 11:29 |
| Michael_a380 | *Once the SMS [all the messeges where] "marked as read" | 11:30 |
| Michael_a380 | *sigh* Anyone heard of this before (n900 blocking any further SMS when already having loads of unread messeges) ? | 11:31 |
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| KotCzarny | maybe its specific to smscon | 11:34 |
| KotCzarny | check it's docs/config | 11:35 |
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| Michael_a380 | Just sent some "gibberish messeges" and it's going through fine with x100+ unread messeges. | 11:46 |
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| KotCzarny | then definitely some failsafe in smscon | 11:50 |
| KotCzarny | or in your service provider | 11:51 |
| KotCzarny | maybe they throttle? | 11:51 |
| Michael_a380 | Once the remaining "undelivered messeges" came through, SMScon flooded its responses. | 11:52 |
| Michael_a380 | Ah yes, maybe. I didn't set the "master phone number". Nothing comes up with search terms, "SMScon" & "unread" for TMO. I'll see if I can recreate the problem. Thanks. | 11:57 |
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| KotCzarny | Michael_a380: dont rely on tmo's search function, its broken | 12:24 |
| KotCzarny | use google | 12:24 |
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| jonwil | hi | 12:40 |
| * jonwil wonders what 2017 will bring for the magical device that is the N900? :) | 12:41 | |
| auenf | for mine, it would be a new battery if it wants to stay on for longer than 3hrs | 12:42 |
| jonwil | My wish is to see software improvements that benefit the N900 | 12:49 |
| jonwil | Not the "lets run Maemo on other devices" stuff or the "lets run things on generic linux" stuff but improvments that I can run myself on my own N900 :) | 12:50 |
| mva | jonwil: then port Tizen to N900 :D | 12:50 |
| jonwil | Not interested in Tizen or SFOS or any other OS, I want improvements to the Maemo OS I have on the thing | 12:51 |
| mva | it is pretty hard to improve maemo, as you can see | 12:52 |
| mva | it's UI is mostly deplrecated gtk2 (and kludges), SDK recommends to use Qt4 (deprecated too), using 2.6.28 kernel (released in 2010)... | 12:53 |
| mva | there is so much places to work, that it is easier to commit suicide, than made it modern... | 12:54 |
| mva | so, for now, it is only way to use it, is to use it "as is", continuing backporting modern applications as they needed | 12:56 |
| jonwil | Compared to what the last Nokia stock release is, lots of improvements have been made to Maemo via CSSU etc | 12:57 |
| mva | yes | 12:57 |
| jonwil | I want to see that continue | 12:57 |
| jonwil | I want to see more of the OS reverse engineered and cloned :) | 12:57 |
| mva | in first year or two after abandonning N900 by nokia | 12:57 |
| mva | then even CSSU get frozen | 12:58 |
| mva | jonwil │ I want to see that continue | 12:58 |
| jonwil | If I can figure out how to parse Google GTFS data in a way I can use on my N900 then I intend to write an app that works with my local public transport operator | 12:58 |
| mva | me too, but... As I said, it is so much work, that no one want to take his life on it (and it is impossible to make it if you're a group of about 5 ppl) | 12:59 |
| KotCzarny | to be honest, gtk2 is fine enough to run any app | 13:05 |
| KotCzarny | and backporting isnt that complicated too | 13:06 |
| sicelo- | jonwil: still no luck on that gtfs thing or just didn't have time? | 13:32 |
| jonwil | No luck with it | 13:32 |
| sicelo- | eew :( | 13:32 |
| jonwil | Even if its limited to old versions of software, the N900 is still far better than anything from crApple :) | 13:35 |
| KotCzarny | oscp uses newest libs! | 13:36 |
| jonwil | I meant core system libraries | 13:36 |
| KotCzarny | yes, but i'm saying that its not the ultimate cripple | 13:36 |
| jonwil | yeah its not | 13:36 |
| KotCzarny | and that new software can run (not all, but its possible) | 13:37 |
| jonwil | my point is that regardless of any obsolete libraries we may be stuck with, the N900 and its Maemo OS is still far better than the alternatives. | 13:43 |
| jonwil | I wouldn't use an iPhone if someone gave me one for free... | 13:44 |
| KotCzarny | it all depends on use case, if one want game console, one buys game console. if one wants linux mini tablet with hw kb and phone, one buys n900 | 13:45 |
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| jonwil | For my perspective its better :) | 13:48 |
| jonwil | The N900 is the most open and hackable phone out there except for a few niche things that are basically unobtainable. | 13:49 |
| jonwil | and is far more open than anything from Apple, Google or MS | 13:49 |
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| Oksanaa | head -n 90298 db3.sql | tail -n 718 | gawk -F 'ES\\(|,' 'BEGIN{OFS=","}{$2=$2+27;print $0}' | sed "s/VALU,/VALUES(/" >> db3.sql.new.sql was the line I used to anti-duplicate primary-unique keys in el-v1.db | 14:48 |
| KotCzarny | oksana, you should store those bits of tricks on your wiki user page | 14:48 |
| KotCzarny | ie. w.m.o | 14:49 |
| Oksanaa | Could, yes. Note that this trick would transform a E S ( part of IM or SMS into a comma, unless it was part of VALUES(. But humans rarely write in CAPS LOCK. | 14:53 |
| KotCzarny | not true | 14:54 |
| KotCzarny | android capitalizes words | 14:54 |
| Oksanaa | Why would Android encourage ALL CAPS? And there is probably a cleaner way to do the same ^, likely | 14:56 |
| KotCzarny | you mean its longer words? | 14:56 |
| KotCzarny | ahm, reread it again | 14:56 |
| Oksanaa | head -n 90298 db3.sql | tail -n 718 | gawk -F ' VALUES\\(|,' 'BEGIN{OFS=","}{$2=$2+27;print $0}' | sed "s/\"Events\",/\"Events\" VALUES(/" >> db3.sql.new.sql No idea whether it works | 14:58 |
| jon_y | no sort -u? :) | 14:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | keeping battery at >90% is not known to cause any harm | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on lead acid overcharging also causes sulfatation | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you really should read a few dozen articles at http://batteryuniversity.com/ | 15:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | keeping battery floating at 100% charge and still all the time trickle charging it - known to cause massive harm to LiIon | 16:02 |
| KotCzarny | problem is keeping it <100% when connected to power source | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why the heck would anybody want to do this? | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my N900 evidently has no problem, it keeps battery at 100% 6 of 7 days a week 24h, since 5 years, and the nattery was always pretty fine for its age | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eventually I need to check the battery in the T900 which is running pre-1.2 and thus doing the 30s charging every 300s since 5 years 24/7/365 | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | last time I 'stole' the charger plug from it, I noticed the missing charging after 6 days where it still was alive | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which means the battery is at least at 50% after those 5 years | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/ | 16:20 |
| KotCzarny | doc, just what i've said: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/do_and_dont_battery_table | 16:24 |
| KotCzarny | minimize full and empty areas | 16:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what the heck are you referring to? nothing like that on this page can be found by me | 16:42 |
| KotCzarny | How to prolong battery: | 16:43 |
| KotCzarny | Keep cool. Operate in mid SoC of 20–80%. Prevent ultra-fast charging and high loads (most Li-ion) | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so? | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, ideally you're cycling between max 20% and 80% max, that doesn't say **keepoing* battery at 100% will do any further harm except of the one time charging to 100% | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so this is actually a point against what you recommend | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also LiIon batteries are said to be considered worn out after 5 years, no matter of theyre used or not. I *use* some LiIon since 7 years and keep them floating at 100% all the time, and since they are good batteries with very low self discharge (this is not a warranted property of all LiIon) they still are better than 60% capacity | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the very low self discharge is a mandatory prerequisite for the battery not eating _any_ current while floating at charge_end voltage. If it would constantly draw current under that operation conditions, it would age pretty quickly | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is the rationale behind the "do not keep floating at 100% in charger" advice | 16:53 |
| KotCzarny | maybe nokia knew a bit or two about li-ion and charge stops earlier than on other cells | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | batteries that do not taper down to 0mA at charge end voltage actually MUST get disconnected from charger and only get recharged after they discharged to a certain lower voltage threshold, either by load or by self discharge | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nom the don't stop at all, do you read what I wrote? | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no,* | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they charge to 4268mV usually | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 4168mV | 16:56 |
| KotCzarny | then it stops earlier. standard is to charge to 4.2 | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is close enough to the supposedly recommended 4200 | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please do your math before chiming in here with claims. this is less that 1% | 16:57 |
| KotCzarny | you've seen those charge curves | 16:58 |
| KotCzarny | when it changes from linear to exponential 1% might not be the same | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *really* tried it, it's not bearable | 16:59 |
| KotCzarny | in effect on longevity | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *plonk* | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1% is prolly well below the precision of the metering equipment, so... | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm glad I got an ignore list | 17:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | btw it's true you should *store* batteries at max 70% charge, at low but NOT freezing temperatures | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for achieving max lifetime | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's also true you can run (LiIon all, also above) batteries in a special low-wear mode where you keep them charged to 80% only for even longer than specified lifetime and cyclecount. Particularly when those batteries are in device like laptop where they are all the time at elevated temperatures | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | none of all this *really* says you must not keep LiIon at 100% charge | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a note on some previous claim that came up here: nowadays a non-negligible fraction of car starter batteries are actually LiIon, not lead acid | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and they are all kept at 100% if any possible | 17:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and again, to keep it utterly unambiguous: while pre-PR1.2 actually shuts down charging at end of charge voltage, and enters a ~15..30s ConstantVoltage (4200mV) charging during a 300s(?) period, PR1.3 *never* switches off charging and keeps battery afloat at charger providing 4200mV constant voltage | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is most likely a bug from power consumption introduced by keeping USB MUSB-core, PHY et al enabled all the time, while on wallwart charger | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the device never reaches charge-end current threshold which is iirc 16 (maybe 30) mA | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I'm not absolutely sure if maybe eventually the BQ24150 watchdog time (4h?) kicks in, terminating the charging hard | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but then the 300s/Xs taper charging by BME would re-enable charging after max 300s | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the once-per-300s taper charging - until charge end current stops it after a maybe 15s - is indeed a almost sane thing, by concept. It however should stop hard after 30s, not keep charging infinitely on batteries with high self discharge rate, for those this scheme is a killer | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then a battery with such high self discharge rate is considered dead anyway and should get discarded and replaced by a good one | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 24h*30.5d*6m | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~24*30.5*6 | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GRRR | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | around 4400h | 17:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so a sane battery should not have a leakage current > 1300mAh/4400h | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~1300/4400 | 17:45 |
| infobot | 0.295454545455 | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 0.3mA | 17:45 |
| Monsieur | :D | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | normal self discharge is one or two orders of magnitude lower | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on quality LiIon batteries | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so all my batteries are floating on charger attached at 4168mV@0.0mA average | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if yours doesn't and consumes current constantly, discard it! | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and no, my LiIon do not exactly suffer undue harm and damage from this scheme | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as a >60% after 5 years 24/7 proves | 17:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ((so the device never reaches charge-end current threshold)) this is due to the charger chip not only charging battery but also providing power to the complete system, and it can't discern between the two sinks | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so BQ24150 never will see charge end current threshold reached when system consumes significant power. BQ27200 gas gauge chip otoh *can* measure clean plain battery current, but this is not used to control the charger chip | 17:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | BME might once have been meant to implement such correct battery current control via BQ27200 and feedback to BQ24150, but obviously it fails miserably on that task if it ever really been the task | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BME replacement is kernel based afaik, and probably any developer would get fatal headache from fighting agaonst layering violations when they tried to implement it in a upstream-able fashion | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in my book this isn't a kernel issue but actually best handled in a userland app that has all the knowledge about battery management | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just like initiating a call on modem isn't a kernel task | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (car starter batteries) because of LiIon: ~250-~340 W/kg, vs Lead Acid 180 W/kg | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and Lead Acid 33–42 Wh/kg vs LiIon 100–265 W·h/kg | 18:14 |
| KotCzarny | saving 2-3kg for a hell of maintenance | 18:15 |
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| KotCzarny | especially in colder/hotter climates | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can save up to 80% of weight with swapping lead acid for LiIon in a car | 18:16 |
| KotCzarny | 80% of weitgh which is how much, 0.1% of car weigh? | 18:16 |
| KotCzarny | seriously | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | possibly 90% | 18:16 |
| KotCzarny | and in the case of car accident you have a bomb under the hood | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus LiIon is maintenance free | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and thanks to higher power per kg, you may get away with lower capacity, after all you don't need 60Ah*12V to start an engine | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | assuming you need a maybe 150A, from a power POV you may get away with 15Ah high power LiIon | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NB those latter 4 or 5 lines are numbers right from my rear | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway according to the math, a 50Ah Lead Acid weighs ~18kg - quite worthy target for optimizations | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oops sorry typo: 60ah | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm 14kg https://www.amazon.de/Varta-58360-Autobatterie-Dynamic-Preis/dp/B00RZ56PPW | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/highly-effective-green-standard-lithium-li_60585975275.html?s=p weight 9kg, weird how little it saves on weight | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, ok LiFePo | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which have other benefits over "normal" LiIon | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not exactly car starter, but nice summary of benefits: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIFEPO4-12V-100AH-LITHIUM-PHOSPHATE-DEEP-CYCLE-BATTERY-FOR-SOLAR-WIND-SLA-Repl-/152176150602 | 18:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Up to 80 percent lighter and 5X the life of a lead acid<< http://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-Tender-Lithium-BTL09A120C-12-Volt-120-CCA-Motorcycle-Powersports-Battery-/262794426212 | 18:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Yes, Lithium will always provide more power per kilo, lithium atoms are smaller than lead. | 18:47 |
| L29Ah | Wizzup: SUP | 18:48 |
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| L29Ah | LiFePo is 50% lighter than lead | 18:49 |
| L29Ah | and 2,5 heavier than LiIon | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe yes. anyway see how they "cheat" on last one I linked: "Pb Eq(uals): 7.9ah" but "25.6Wh" | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which in my book makes slightly over 2Ah | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | L29Ah: ack, many thanks for clearing it | 18:50 |
| L29Ah | also lifepo can give away a lot more power, like 300C | 18:51 |
| L29Ah | awesome for starting a car using a tiny cheap immortal cell | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: that's why they may 'cheat' like this | 18:51 |
| * sixwheeledbeast is waiting for a Hydrogen Fuel Cell the size of BL-5J | 18:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2Ah * 300C = 600A | 18:52 |
| KotCzarny | swb: +1 | 18:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: I wish they finally would come to market with one of the several prototypes they had during last maybe 10 years | 18:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | May even get a years charge out of it. | 18:53 |
| L29Ah | nah they're not that energy dense | 18:54 |
| * sixwheeledbeast assumes oil companies have jumped on the tech and won't let go. | 18:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the benefit is: refuel them with e.g. ethanol | 18:54 |
| L29Ah | they're like 10x of the state-of-art LiIon | 18:54 |
| KotCzarny | l29ah, but much much more reusable | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (not the hydrogen ones) | 18:54 |
| L29Ah | KotCzarny: afair the prototypes have problems with longevity | 18:55 |
| L29Ah | also storing hydrogen is not a simple task | 18:55 |
| KotCzarny | L29Ah: that's why they are prototypes and not market ready products | 18:56 |
| L29Ah | it will permeate everything if it's not chemically bound | 18:56 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Store as water? | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | use hydrocarbon e.g. ethanol or methanol | 18:59 |
| L29Ah | sixwheeledbeast: and you have a perpetuum mobile | 18:59 |
| KotCzarny | there are no perpetuum mobiles in this universe | 19:00 |
| L29Ah | it takes more energy to break water down than to burn hydrogen in a fuel cell | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's quite wasteful since the carbon is oxidized and just creates heat for nothing, but it somewhat works nicely, particularly for "storing hydrogen" | 19:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Not as efficient as hydrogen granted. hydrocarbon would be like going back 30 years | 19:01 |
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| Wizzup | L29Ah: hi | 19:01 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 recalls a fuel cell working with methanol(?) that was like 200cm^3 | 19:01 | |
| L29Ah | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_methanol_fuel_cell not many info re performance :/ | 19:02 |
| KotCzarny | 'my car didnt start today. why? someone drank my battery to the bottom' :P | 19:03 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Well at least they couldn't steal it | 19:04 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: you poked me for a reason? | 19:04 |
| L29Ah | Wizzup: yes, you forgot about your plans to make plans and i wonder how are you and whether i should expect you to do that | 19:05 |
| KotCzarny | l29ah: he got new toy | 19:05 |
| Wizzup | You've seen the maemo thread, right? | 19:05 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: I ... what? | 19:05 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup, a33 tablet | 19:05 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: That's ... part of the whole plan :) | 19:05 |
| KotCzarny | or i've confused the people | 19:06 |
| Wizzup | I specifically got the tablet for this | 19:06 |
| L29Ah | http://ultracell-llc.com/store.php what | 19:06 |
| L29Ah | Wizzup: i've seen the "organized" thread; what thread are you talking about? | 19:06 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: I also got a few tablets for devuan people in amsterdam | 19:06 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: the organised thread also asked for people who want to help to specifically say that | 19:06 |
| Wizzup | so far I haven't seen anyone else say that they want to pick up any tasks | 19:06 |
| L29Ah | i don't really get why do you want to stick to the tablets | 19:07 |
| Wizzup | I don't | 19:07 |
| KotCzarny | tablets are easy to do dev on | 19:07 |
| L29Ah | as they have a lot of problems on they own | 19:07 |
| L29Ah | no | 19:07 |
| KotCzarny | yes, those specific tablets are | 19:07 |
| L29Ah | qemu-user is easy to do dev on | 19:07 |
| Wizzup | The next two main things are: 1) start autobuilding packages for devuan, 2) get an image that we can run on some devices for testing | 19:07 |
| KotCzarny | qemu-user doesnt do touch on display | 19:07 |
| Wizzup | and I think I also mention VMs in that thread | 19:07 |
| L29Ah | k i guess i suck and should buy another n900 to be of any use | 19:08 |
| Wizzup | how so? | 19:08 |
| Wizzup | I don't think that's true | 19:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http://www.myfcpower.com/collections/shop/products/myfc-powertrekk-2-0 | 19:08 |
| L29Ah | i don't know debian and i don't want to be offline on my main n900 | 19:08 |
| L29Ah | for long | 19:08 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: you can use qemu-arm for most/all of that, correc | 19:09 |
| Wizzup | t | 19:09 |
| KotCzarny | l29ah, grab a33 tablet, they go very cheap | 19:09 |
| KotCzarny | even cheaper than use n900 | 19:09 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: I also don't ``know'' debian | 19:09 |
| Wizzup | but how hard can it be :) | 19:09 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup: dpkg is hell | 19:09 |
| Wizzup | (finishing what I wanted to say) ... it's been about two weeks since any status update I think, because I got _completely_ flooded with work, been working till deep in the night every day | 19:09 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: devuan has pretty nice auto build systems | 19:09 |
| L29Ah | KotCzarny: cheaper than $30? | 19:10 |
| Wizzup | and most of the packages fmg and others have on github already have scripts to build it | 19:10 |
| KotCzarny | l29ah, something in that range | 19:10 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: I think there's a few reasons we took some of these tablets -- more ram, still similar (relatively small screen), same instruction set, and the realisation to also move beyond the n900 at some point | 19:11 |
| Wizzup | that doesn't mean not also making verything work on the n900 | 19:11 |
| KotCzarny | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tablet-7-Android-4-4-Allwinner-A33-tablet-Zyrex-SM746-Dual-Core-Tablet-PC-512MB-4GB/32760507523.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.kcWVTk&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10106_10051,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_5,single_sort_0_price_asc&btsid=3cddb927-85 | 19:11 |
| Wizzup | it just means we need to target *MORE* than just the n900 | 19:11 |
| KotCzarny | 36usd, free shipping | 19:11 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: and who knows what you'll get | 19:11 |
| KotCzarny | shitty screen though | 19:11 |
| Wizzup | I think the n900 is also a good target - I have spent quite some time on getting the tablet drivers in shape | 19:11 |
| KotCzarny | only 640x480 | 19:11 |
| KotCzarny | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/7-inch-A23-Dual-Core-Q88-Tablet-WIFI-MID-Dual-Camera-Android-4-2-512MB-4GB/32315402586.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.112.kcWVTk&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_10000009_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10106_10051,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_5,single_sort_0_price_asc&btsid=3cddb927-85bb-4c7d | 19:13 |
| L29Ah | https://www.avito.ru/moskva/telefony/telefon_nokia_nseries_n900_888210477 $34 | 19:13 |
| KotCzarny | 38usd, 1024x600 | 19:13 |
| KotCzarny | 512MB vs 256 :P | 19:13 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: the n900 has pretty great support | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://ultracell-llc.com/assets/XX55_Data_Sheet_SY011011_Rev_01.pdf hmmm | 19:13 |
| KotCzarny | ahm, this one is only a23 | 19:14 |
| Wizzup | we just need to get devuan images with n900 kernel (pali or mainline), with pvr drivers and stuff set up | 19:14 |
| L29Ah | 20:08:51]<sixwheeledbeast> http://www.myfcpower.com/collections/shop/products/myfc-powertrekk-2-0 | 19:14 |
| L29Ah | zero info :( | 19:14 |
| Wizzup | same for the tablets | 19:14 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup, anyone managed to get pvr blob running on mainline? | 19:14 |
| Wizzup | I think fmg | 19:14 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: anyhow, when I get home in a few days I will be more relaxed, right now I can mostly think of work | 19:15 |
| Wizzup | too much crap to do :/ | 19:15 |
| Wizzup | if you want to start _now_ I can send you info that devuan folks gave me when I asked about auto building | 19:15 |
| Wizzup | They have a nice system, and we'll need git(lab) accounts and some ci hooks to get things going | 19:16 |
| Wizzup | And then we're very close to just getting a repo where it gets auto build into | 19:16 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: but I do need to know what you're interested in, or what you'd like to pick up | 19:18 |
| L29Ah | are you talking about automatic image builds? | 19:19 |
| Wizzup | not images, but repos | 19:19 |
| Wizzup | debian repos | 19:19 |
| Wizzup | so you can add a repo to apt sources and it'll get our maemo-specific packages in there | 19:20 |
| L29Ah | do we need those? won't upstream ones do? | 19:20 |
| Wizzup | e.g. h-d | 19:20 |
| L29Ah | ah, maemo-specific | 19:20 |
| Wizzup | yes | 19:20 |
| Wizzup | :) | 19:20 |
| L29Ah | we don't need them now tho | 19:20 |
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| L29Ah | as we don't know even if they'll build and work on the new kernel | 19:21 |
| L29Ah | wait | 19:21 |
| L29Ah | i guess i have a messed up dependency graph in my head | 19:21 |
| Wizzup | L29Ah: so the maemo specific things are being ported over to 'mainline' sw, e.g. gtk3 | 19:23 |
| Wizzup | where we do not require specific patches to said sw | 19:23 |
| L29Ah | http://www.myfcpower.com/collections/shop/products/myfc-powertrekk-pucks this SUCKS | 19:24 |
| L29Ah | i can have 10W*h in a 18650 weighing 45g | 19:24 |
| L29Ah | and it's cheap and rechargeable | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm while http://www.myfcpower.com/collections/shop/products/myfc-powertrekk-2-0 leaves me totally puzzled, it also gives me ideas along using a Peltier with arbitrary heat sources like handwarmer pocket ovens, heat pads, parabolic mirror, even medical products that heat from oxidizing some iron dust or whatever | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.thermacare.com/ | 19:31 |
| L29Ah | peltier is 1% efficient | 19:31 |
| L29Ah | and bulky as hell | 19:31 |
| L29Ah | as you need to enclose your heat source to get all the energy | 19:32 |
| L29Ah | also you need to be careful not to overheat it | 19:32 |
| L29Ah | and at the same time you need to heat it more for better efficiency | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ugh really? 1% only? | 19:32 |
| L29Ah | smth like that | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hard to believe they'd use such poor efficiency item in cooling boxes for 12V car / camping operation | 19:33 |
| L29Ah | stirling engines are a lot more efficient but are very expensive and not that good at longevity on small scales | 19:33 |
| L29Ah | they're like 5x less efficient at cooling than traditional compressor setups you can see in fridges afair | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or is the efficiency vastly asymmetric? | 19:34 |
| L29Ah | but they come in simple and small packages | 19:34 |
| L29Ah | well, you can't really compare cooling efficiency and the power generating one | 19:34 |
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| jonwil | hi | 22:32 |
| Wizzup | hi! | 22:38 |
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| ff_ | elo | 23:22 |
| Oksanaa | Hi :-) | 23:22 |
| ff_ | what's going on here? ;> | 23:24 |
| L29Ah | allah is doing | 23:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 0 DocScrutinizer05 1 2 3 xxY | 23:24 | |
| ff_ | i don't see any users | 23:25 |
| Oksanaa | Repaired duplicate primary-unique keys problem in el-v1.db recently. Wonder where it came from. | 23:25 |
| ff_ | what is he doing? | 23:25 |
| Oksanaa | How is it possible to see no users when there are 100+ maemo users on the channel? | 23:26 |
| KotCzarny | simple, broken client or drunk | 23:26 |
| ff_ | :p | 23:27 |
| ff_ | i use uzbl client | 23:27 |
| ff_ | in n900 | 23:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | 158 people in room... | 23:27 |
| ff_ | it's good to know, thx | 23:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | at least 5 have been conscious in the last 10 mins | 23:29 |
| ff_ | some change in options helped, you are visible to me now | 23:34 |
| Oksanaa | Uzbl?.. Interesting, what is that? Okay... http://www.uzbl.org/ | 23:35 |
| sixwheeledbeast | o/ | 23:35 |
| ff_ | is el-v1.db database with sms, contacts and others? what magic can we do with it? | 23:35 |
| sixwheeledbeast | yep | 23:36 |
| ff_ | usually i use opera, but captcha didn't work, so next client | 23:37 |
| Oksanaa | el-v1.db contains SMS, call history, IMs. Not sure what else. I usually make do with MicroB, and sometimes Fennec. | 23:38 |
| L29Ah | uzbl on n900? | 23:43 |
| L29Ah | sounds sick | 23:43 |
| Vajb | i can recommend irssi for the client of choice when on n900 | 23:43 |
| Oksanaa | Irssi is good, but I like telepathy-idle integration. Granted, telepathy-idle is very featureless. | 23:44 |
| ff_ | i check it, this is for quit test | 23:45 |
| Vajb | telepathy idle integrates to default imclient? | 23:46 |
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| Oksanaa | Yes :-) | 23:46 |
| Vajb | does it do anything but idle? | 23:46 |
| Oksanaa | Send plain messages. Show list of participants. Authenticate to services, with option for SSL. There is invite, even. | 23:48 |
| Vajb | hmm maybe i'll give it a go | 23:49 |
| Vajb | would be nice to have one program less open since telegram-purple can't be minimized to tray | 23:49 |
| Oksanaa | No /me or /commands, though. But joining a chat room or sending private messages is possible ; just, while one IRC user can be added to abook, chat room is not as intuitive. | 23:50 |
| Vajb | hmm maybe they could be implemented? | 23:50 |
| Oksanaa | Like, I can add Vajb to Contacts, I cannot add #maemo to contacts. And actually, I am more frustrated with its handling of multiple IRC servers; when adding Vajb to Contacts, I cannot specify that it's on Freenode. | 23:51 |
| Oksanaa | Yes, I think that improvements could be made :-) Like, there is no Reconnect button for an IRC connection, nor does it reliably automatically reconnect, hence I press many buttons to reconnect manually, on a daily basis. But that may be just my WiFi. | 23:54 |
| Vajb | hmm that multiple server flaw is kind of turn of to me tho | 23:55 |
| Vajb | since irssi does that very well | 23:56 |
| Oksanaa | If you speak with the same people and the same channels all the time, you can easily return to them from Conversations window, without any multiple server problems. | 23:57 |
| Oksanaa | Just, jumping from Contacts to IRC will mean choosing the server for the Contact all the time, since abook doesn't know on which server the person is. | 23:58 |
| Vajb | i see | 23:59 |
| Vajb | so maybe adressbokk needs a field for that | 23:59 |
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