IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2017-01-05

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Michael_a380My n900 is connected to a powerbank, where once the phone is charged , the green light will go off after a few minutes (powerbank cuts the power; ignores the phone?). Is there a way to simulate a "USB disconnect → USB connect" ?   Maybe triggered by 'time interval' or 'battery level'.02:53
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DocScrutinizer05Michael_a380: which software version do you run? And is your powerbank (or cable) shorting D+/- lines of USB? My N900 never stops eating some 100+mA when connected to a power supply of any kind12:00
DocScrutinizer05it was PR pre-1.2 iirc that did the interval charging on battery full12:01
DocScrutinizer05PR1.3 keeps battery afloat at 4.16V and eats quite some current for active USB and CPU clock locked to 500MHz iirc12:02
DocScrutinizer05I don't know USB powerbanks that really talk data to a connected device. It's always only about power consumption on VBUS +5V12:06
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DocScrutinizer05Michael_a380: are you pilot?12:43
DocScrutinizer05though, which pilot flies only one airplane type?12:44
Vajbmy powerbank has autoshutdown and it doesn't start charging before i unplug and replug usb from powerbank12:59
DocScrutinizer05yes, mine has the same. That's why I say it's only about load current13:05
DocScrutinizer05shutdown happens when there's no more load detected by powerbank, however I don't know how it detects a mating cycle13:06
KotCzarnymeasuring amperage?13:07
DocScrutinizer05I *guess* the powerbank simply applies a voltage bias via a high resistante pullup resistor to Vbatt 3V7 and detects faling edge of that voltage and enables the booster to provide 5V until the current draw is < threshold13:08
DocScrutinizer05I gonna check immediately on my powerbank now13:09
Vajband i suspect that that feature cannot be overcome without good knowledge of electronics. Sime timer controlled relay comes to mind, but im not specialist.13:10
* DocScrutinizer05 realizes that he still doesn't have any USB breakout lab test equipment13:10
Vajbsome timer*13:10
KotCzarnyvajb: relays are actually very simple to use13:10
KotCzarnyyou can even get preprogrammed ones13:11
KotCzarny5-10usd on aliexpress13:11
jon_ypower banking cartels :)13:11
Vajbi know relays used in cars :)13:11
KotCzarnycomputer ones are almost the same13:11
Vajbwell at least those wich have four pins13:11
KotCzarnybut problem is that with full battery in n900 it would just shutdown again13:12
KotCzarnyi guess13:13
Vajbhmm ok so some relay wich starts counting down from 2hours and "replugs" usb after that...13:13
KotCzarnyvajb, there are even usb/bt controlled ones13:13
KotCzarnyi guess bt would be the best for n90013:13
Vajband 24hours later we scrape off the table what is left of powerbank and n900 :)13:13
KotCzarnykeeping n900's battery >90% all the time isnt healthy though13:14
KotCzarnyso it should trigger when there is <10% charge left in the phone13:15
KotCzarnysweetspot would be some kind of xi charging and some script to keep n900's battery ~40%13:16
DocScrutinizer05first observation: the powerbank does NOT detect the plug-in of a USB plug - evidence: plugging in a USB extender cable doesn't activate the bank13:16
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KotCzarnydoc, check connecting dumb light bulb/led13:16
DocScrutinizer052nd observation: plugging a consumer to the extension cable triggers the bank, so it's an electrical thing via the 4 USB wires13:17
DocScrutinizer053rd: the plugged in consumer been a USB A/V probe feed-through which evidently doesn't do any own action on D+/- USB data lines, so this reduces the relevant lines to VBUS-5V and GND13:18
Vajbmight be difference between banks. My bank activates when i plug usb to device, but it shuts down in few seconds. When i plug usb to device first and then to bank, it stays on till bank is empty or n900 full13:19
KotCzarnyif you have 2 wire usb cable you can check how intelligent it is13:19
DocScrutinizer054th: that USB probe eats some maybe 10 to 20 mA (gonna check exact value now with a second one) and the powerbank shuts down after maybe 10s13:19
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DocScrutinizer055th: connecting true consumer (N950) to powerbank 2nd outlet doesn't start it when it gone inactive with probe still connected to 1st outlet. conclusion: probe on first outlet still pulls down the weak pullup on VBUS so a further pulldown on 2nd outlet doesn't trigger the falling edge needed to start the bank13:24
DocScrutinizer05so I think my initial analysis is absolutely correct (though yet not 100% confirmed): powerbank biases VBUS line via high impedance pullup R to 3V7 (internal Vbatt) and watches for falling edge. On falling edge it enables booster to provide 5V to VBus, then it monitors current consumption and shuts off on current < threshold. It does _not_ detect the falling edge from shutting down boost, so to start it again with a weak load attached,13:28
DocScrutinizer05you need to remove the load completely (VBus charges to 3V7) and then replug (falling edge)13:28
DocScrutinizer05for N900 it remains to be seen if a "manual" control of charger chip BQ24150 via I2C can simulate complete disconnect of USB from powerbank via charging_disable13:30
DocScrutinizer05a way more simple, and obvious cure however would be to never let the consumed current drop below the deactivation threshold of the power bank - simply keep backlight on13:31
DocScrutinizer05the actual threshold depends on your particular powerbank though13:31
DocScrutinizer05as I mentioned before, my N900 with PR1.3 never stops drawing a ~150mA even with backlight off, "thanks to" the USB core never stops trying to connect to a possibly attached USB host13:34
DocScrutinizer05this changed from PR1.1 to 1.2 or 1.2 to 1.3, old firmware does pulse charging, once per 3 minutes for 30s or somesuch13:34
DocScrutinizer05now connecting my N900 PR1.3 to my powerbank via a nasty contraption that simulates D+/- short13:36
DocScrutinizer51works like a charm for now13:38 contraptions13:39
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DocScrutinizer05the N900 consumes a 90 to 150mA all the time from powerbank which provides 5.01V13:41
DocScrutinizer05with backlight off13:41
DocScrutinizer05with backlight on it's ~250mA13:41
DocScrutinizer05IÜW with backlight on my powerbank could operate this way a 100h13:42
DocScrutinizer05and backligh OFF*13:42
DocScrutinizer05yep, still steady stae13:45
DocScrutinizer05state. So it behaves exactly like I hoped it would. However note that my powerbank (like prolly most of them) does NOT short D+/- so if I would do same test without my nasty contraption, it wouldn't work since N900 doesn't even start decent charging13:46
DocScrutinizer05I so far worked around this using my chargescript whn charging from powerbank13:47
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DocScrutinizer05powerbank still happily powers N900, at a steady ~120mA consumption. The battery is completely charged, the device shows "charge finished"15:54
DocScrutinizer05 - the white powersupply connected is just to short D+/-16:06
DocScrutinizer05the powerbank is labeled "10400mAh" so this setup should work for up to maybe 80h16:09
DocScrutinizer05of course the contraption with that white charger and Y-cable could get replaced by either using a dedicated charger cable that has D+/- shorted, or simply by shorting the D+ and D- pins inside powerbank, by soldering a bridge to the USB connector middle two pads16:11
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mvahi there! I noticed that there is no package updates even in CSSU repos (except december's 0xFFFF upgrade). Is it some another OS (maybe with more recent kernel) recommended for N900 now? Or maemo is just in suspend mode?17:30
KotCzarnybit of both17:30
keriowell not really17:33
keriojust the latter17:33
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VajbKotCzarny: T410, i5-520M, 4gb ram, no ssd, but it is on auction. Im thinking to offer max 150 as i looked that ssd +4gb ram will be around 100 more.17:42
bencohmva: what do you mean by "no package update" btw?17:46
bencohcssu-testing gets a bit of updates from time to time17:47
bencoh-stable is, well ... -stable17:47
bencohit does get its share of bugfixes once in a while (~year)17:47
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Vajbhmm if code is optimized to the last empty line, why would updetes be needed :p17:49
Vajbguess im dreaming again...17:49
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DocScrutinizer05 2 318:01
DocScrutinizer05or 30018:01
DocScrutinizer05Vajb: nope, you're to the point18:04
KotCzarnyyeah, they do that, you must be new to the internet not seeing those frigging flying daemons18:05
mvabencoh: first of all, I didn't see any update (except 0xffff) in fapman since nov'15 end even there, there was almost no package updates :( Secondly, I looked timestamps of directories in pools ;)18:06
mvabtw, is it any active projects about porting (or at least backporting, lol) modern (4.x) kernels to N900? :)18:07
DocScrutinizer05first of all, don't use fapman ;-)18:08
bencohright :)18:08
* mva was a bit shocked when some time ago, when tried to run static compiled (for modern arm systems) busybox on n900, and it said "too old kernel" or something like that O_o18:08
bencohmva: regarding modern kernels: and
bencohmva: yeah, libc broke it ...18:09
Vajbcan't fapman be taken out from repo?18:09
mvaDocScrutinizer05: and what should I use instead? // except aptitude/apt-get and nokia's package manager18:09
DocScrutinizer05nokia's packet manager18:10
DocScrutinizer05particularly speedyHAM18:10
infobotSpeedyHAM is 30 times faster than HAM  SpeedyHAM is included in CSSU now18:10
mvaok, I'll try18:10
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU), or actually for anything since ~speedyHAM. It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. In short, it's been identified as source of system corruption and thus deprecated, or see ~hamvsfam18:10
mvaalthough, just wondered: why fapman is bad? :)18:10
bencohfor the aformentioned reasons18:11
infobot[hamvsfam], or
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mvaoh, I just remembered: isn't it some kind of TMO backup somewhere? :D There was some topic, about how to repair broken USB on N900 (although, I failed to find it even now, when I tried last time) // i've second motherboard with broken USB, but have no time to repair ATM, and thought about saving that article and return to that problem when I'll have enough time. But I afraid TMO can be dead on that time :'(18:14
infobotmethinks usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater), or, you will basically need two irons: a small good one (or better hot-air reflow) and a 60+ Watt18:15
KotCzarny(stupid windoze)18:15
VajbDocScrutinizer05: wich way that cat had been traveling to?18:15
Vajbwell in any case i guess it jumped on those pipes first18:17
KotCzarnymva: search function on tmo sucks, use google18:17
KotCzarnyvajb: search videos/gifs of leaping cats18:17
KotCzarny2-3m vertical jump on flat wall isnt unseen18:17
VajbKotCzarny: i can just look around while home18:17
Vajbour other cat jumps about 120cm from floor18:18
Vajbi mean laying on floor pawns under her18:18
Vajbbut two to three meters has to be whole different breed of cat18:19
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mvauhm... I already listed to 6th page and I'm not sure it is that topic I remember. There was image with soldering wires to "points" under battery, and this topic only has a way to solder wires to resistors under metal cover. Although, maybe this is more "right" way than that...18:22
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Vajbmva: i think u r talking about soldering usb to service pads18:24
Vajbor how ever they were called at. It is used when normal usb traces r gone18:24
DocScrutinizer05yes, you shouldn't use testpoints to fix USB, unless really all other options are void18:30
DocScrutinizer05I think the testpoint fix is mentioned somewhere later on in above linked tmo thread18:30
DocScrutinizer05actually I'm pretty sure since I recall I commented on it, regarding the problems with it (e.g. lack of ESD and EMI protection)18:33
DocScrutinizer05ummph nope, I stand corrected18:35
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infobot[scratchbox] a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at, hosted by maemo now. Also at
mvastill old scratchbox :(18:36
mvais it still Debian Etch should be used as target distro?18:37
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MonsieurHi there18:44
DocScrutinizer05indeed tmo search is *totally* FUBAR.
KotCzarnydoc: might be helpful to see httpd logs18:47
KotCzarnycould be that there was some indexing service disabled18:47
DocScrutinizer05mva: (sb) get the VM e.g. from
mvaDocScrutinizer05: I'd prefer chroot :) Although, I already added it to TODO (fetch VM, run it, transfer all the files to chroot, continue work in chroot) :)18:49
mvathanks anyway ;)18:50
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KotCzarnymva: you can create chroot18:54
KotCzarnyassuming you have working qemu or native arm arch18:54
mvaboth of it :)18:55
KotCzarnyit's as easy as getting few skeleton packages, unpacking them and doing apt-get update/install18:55
mvaI've bunch of Pine64+, for example18:55
KotCzarnyit will work, but apps depending on maemo services could fail18:56
mvaalthough, I thought about making buildserver (so, I guess, it'll be better to use qemu+binfmt chroot)18:56
KotCzarnyim using bananas/oranges to compile for my n90018:56
infobotmethinks tabletsdev is , (all defunct, thanks Nokia) or the nice site, or, or
KotCzarnyyou can grab vm image from the last link18:57
KotCzarnyand use distcc to distribute to pine64s18:57
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mvahow can I check (to be fully sure) that installed HAM is speedyham, and not old slow nokia's proprietary one?19:08
KotCzarnydpkg -l19:09
KotCzarnyshould probably have cssu in the version19:09
KotCzarnyor not.19:10
mva// I just hope speedyham is a bit different and allows to install multiple packages at the same time (first, check packages you're want to install, and then install all of them, if they not conflicts), like fapman can. But I can't notice any difference between HAM I see now and HAM that was in 2009 :)19:10
KotCzarnybut if the version is 2.2.73-2 then its from cssu19:11
mvaii  hildon-application-manager                          1:2.2.73-219:11
KotCzarnyits ok, its speedyham19:12
Vajbheh backlog reminded me of my try to compile glibc for my desktop linux. It failed because of too old gcc 4.7 and needed was 2.5.3 or something along those lines19:15
Vajbdidn't make much sense to me so i just let it be19:15
bencohtoo old gcc 4.719:17
bencoh*meh* ...19:17
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Vajbyes and configure (or something) said that 2.5.3 or newer is needed19:19
Vajbso i didn't really understand how 4.7 is too old since it is like two times newer19:19
Vajball i wanted was to compile newer glibc for telegram ;)19:21
mvaVajb: it's just people who write comparsion expressions... erm... (**how to not call them idiots?..**) do not know what exactly they writing :)19:21
mvabecause I can't imagine a way how to write a code that can assume 4<2 as true :)19:22
Vajbi think it was my first try of combiling. Found clear looking tutorial and then that. Think I'll change distro soon anyways.19:23
Vajbor is it compiling19:24
bencohVajb: newer glibc for telegram? gnii?19:24
infobotbencoh meant: Vajb: newer glibc for telegram? mmmh??19:24
Vajbit says it need 2.15 and i have 2.1319:24
bencohare you talking about glibc, aka gnu libc, or glib, aka gnome toolkit glib?19:25
Vajbdid u read that i was doing it for desktop19:25
bencoh(s/gnome/gimp/ btw)19:25
mvaVajb: but... how old is your distro?19:25
Vajbi assume gnu libc19:26
mva2.13-2.15 is something about 2009's19:26
Vajbit is late crunchbang linux19:26
bencohI dont really see why would telegram need a newer glibc19:26
bencohespecially since it compiles for maemo19:26
Vajbbut distro got discontinued19:26
mvabencoh: I bet, he tried telegram-desktop, which is Qt5, which, in turn, can ask for newer glibc19:27
mvaVajb: take a look on Gentoo :P19:28
Vajbyeah i downloaded it from telegram site19:31
Vajbmva: im having very old computer so i need light os. Probably telegram-dekstop would have been overkill anyways19:31
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mvaVajb: doesn't usual, say, debian not light enough?20:23
infobotmva meant: Vajb: doesn't usual, say, debian  light enough?20:23
mva// although, even gentoo can be "light" (especially win libcs like musl or what's most yummy there for now), although, it has PM written on python (so, it want 512+MB RAM (or swap)). That's Why I firstly asked about debian20:25
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infobotwell, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see, or, or
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infobotsomebody said flasher was at (also .exe!), or or generally   HARMattan(N9):, or -- list of filenames/md5sums:, or
KotCzarnyyou might want ~flashing20:36
MonsieurHm, i'm just looking for the flashing process about emmc20:36
Monsieuri'm a new n900 owner20:36
KotCzarnythen use flashing20:37
Monsieur;) thx20:37
infobot[maemo-flashing], or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing20:37
KotCzarnyũse that script20:37
KotCzarnyor lazyflashing oneliner20:37
Monsieuri use to use the ./flasher -f $fw -F, which was pretty easy to execute20:38
KotCzarnysee flash-it-all.sh20:38
KotCzarnyit really is everything you need20:39
KotCzarnyit also downloads proper images automatically20:39
Monsieurhm, ok, i'll have a look20:39
Monsieurho, nice :)20:39
Monsieurmy main problem is about the repositories mess20:41
infobotwell, maemo-repos is
KotCzarnybut, as a new user you want:20:41
KotCzarny ~cssu20:41
infobothmm... cssu is, or (Community Seamless Software Update)20:41
KotCzarnybut thats after clean flash20:42
Monsieurofc :)20:42
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Monsieurclean flash : done20:57
Monsieuri don't understand why the device lock code is still the same after flashing21:03
Monsieurbut, it's not a big deal :)21:03
KotCzarnyits written on different part of nand?21:03
Monsieuri guess so21:03
Monsieurand just for my knowledge, is there a way to wipe it ?21:05
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infobotwell, lockcode is
Monsieurnice, thx21:17
MonsieurToo much keywords :)21:17
KotCzarnystart writing them down ;)21:18
Monsieurthx infobot  ;)21:19
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infobotsixwheeledbeast: thanks21:32
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Vajbmva: yeah my distro is debian based and im thinking of changin. Well for a long time already, but have been lazy21:59
MonsieurKotCzarny: thanks for your advices. I guess i'm now up-to-date with cSSU22:29
KotCzarnydo you plan to use n900 as an audio player too?22:30
Monsieurnot at all, i'm using a FiiO X322:30
KotCzarnywith proper software, n900 can be quite useful in that regard22:31
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MonsieurI'll look how to sync (cal|card)dav from owncloud to the n900 :) but for now, it's beer time !22:36
warfareIs there any modern messenger for the n900? (threema, wire, etc.?)22:38
Vajbwarfare: telegram and jabber r what i use22:41
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