IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2016-12-14

mueddibah I understand00:00
Pali --> works only if Maemo is installed00:00
Paliwhat you can do is to decrease size of MyDocs partition00:00
Paliand after that create new parition00:00
Paliuboot is loading configuration from MyDocs00:00
Paliso decrease MyDocs e.g. to 1GB00:01
Paliand you should have ~~ 22GB empty after 3rd partition00:02
Pali(maybe more 26GB probably)00:02
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mueddibDear Pali, last time I delete all partition on the mmcblk0 and reboot and N900 work :)00:07
Paliif you delete all partitions on eMMC, then you delete Maemo500:08
mueddibno Maemo is not delete, N900 boot :)00:08
mueddibdid you seen?
Paliprobably is damaged00:11
mueddibreally? hm..00:11
Palias all more parts are stored in /opt (=mount bind to /home/opt) and in /home/user/00:11
mueddibPali, I wondering, can not I install gentoo on the N900? For example, grub start get the grub menu I select kernel and find to ext3 /boot folder boot the kernel and boot linux00:19
mueddibjust like computers.00:19
mueddibcan not it be that way?00:20
Paliuboot supports that bootmenu00:22
Paliyou can00:22
Palibut configuration is loaded from MyDocs00:22
Paliso now you cannot use uboot00:23
Palias you deleted everything needed for it00:23
mueddibDear Pali, thanks for all informations, I install to uboot next time and I use Gentoo :)00:28
mueddibI don't use Maemo, Maemo is good and based debian but I need compile packages everytime on the N90000:28
WizzupYou're crazy00:29
WizzupI use gentoo on my n900, but I don't compile anything on it00:29
Paliyou can flash kernel image directly to nand00:29
WizzupI compile it on a different machine00:29
Paliand use it without uboot00:29
mueddibthis problem, n900 is very very slow :)00:29
Palibut in that case you need to ensure that you have everything needed for booting in zImage00:30
Paliand that zImage size is < 2MB00:30
Paliand cmdline and others is compiled in zImage00:30
mueddibWizzup, I compile only bitchx irc client, mutt, vi, and linux kernel00:30
mueddib(chroot) Nokia-N900-42-11 media # df -h00:31
mueddibFilesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on00:31
Wizzupso why not compile it on some other arm machine, or with qemu-user, or with cross compile00:31
mueddib /dev/mmcblk0p1   30G  173M   28G   1% /media/mmcblk000:31
mueddibthis is good :)00:31
bencohseriously this is .... ridiculous00:31
mueddibso, I have a problem00:33
mueddibI connect to SSH and always freeze over ssh I'm waiting to enter the command. What could be the reason frozen?00:34
WizzupMaybe it's below 0 degrees celsius.00:34
mueddibWizzup right now, here it is snowing and weather is very cold.00:35
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mueddibWizzup are you serious? could it be cold?00:40
WizzupNo, I wasn't serious.00:41
WizzupMaybe wifi power saving? You should figure out how it freezes, where it freezes, in what part in the exchange00:41
mueddibhm, how do I resolve that it is waiting on ssh?00:41
Wizzupssh -vvv00:41
mueddibhm I check now, thank you00:41
mueddibOpenSSH_5.1p1  Debian-6.maemo5, OpenSSL 0.9.8g 19 Oct 200700:42
WizzupI was suggesting increasing the verbosity, not printing the version.00:43
mueddibWhere can I change to wifi power saving?00:44
Paliand tell any other wifi sw to not enable it (network-manager, wicd, etc..)00:46
mueddibI use default network-manager00:47
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DocScrutinizer05(([2016-12-13 Tue 21:10:49] <bencoh> mmc1 is external sdcard, mmc0 is (internal) eMMC)) WATCH OUT! this is not exactly totaly true05:55
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DocScrutinizer05actually maemo does explicitly rename / swap mmc0 and mmc1 if and only if both are detected, since the kernel first checks uSD and after that eMMC, so depending if a uSD is present or not, the naming is different before that explicit renaming06:46
DocScrutinizer05cat /lib/udev/mmc_id07:17
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: ^^^ is one of the many many things I think will be quite a pita to ship around when trying to "port fremantle" to devuan piece by piece07:18
DocScrutinizer05since I'm quite sure there's no such thing like /lib/udev/mmc_id and the framework calling it, in plain devuan. And yet basically _all_ maemo apps etc depend on the results of this little thingie, in that they have hardcoded path names etc07:19
DocScrutinizer05you can't build a house from roof to basement07:20
DocScrutinizer05in my book it's simpler to port devuan to maemo fremantle piece by piece, and fix the fallout after each ported piece07:24
DocScrutinizer05porting only one or a few fremantle pieces to devuan will be a real PITA to make them work since you need to fix a metric shitton of such little incompatibilities just to find you need to fix them *again* for the next piece you port, since e.g. _all_ are depending on same consistent persistent naming eMMC=mmc0 uSD=mmc1 and you either can fix that once in devuan or you fix it in *all* maemo pieces and even then it won't work as expected07:27
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KotCzarnyregarding partitions, on android it mounts partitions by-name07:56
KotCzarnyso it detects names first, then mounts what's needed07:57
DocScrutinizer05I'd first port new kernel from devuan to maemo and try how far that gets when installed and started on target platform. Should reach loading of PID1 which initially is messybox in fremantle. Then you probably need a glibc built with legacy ABI upward to apps but built against API of new kernel. You then might get PID1 actually starting and running into kernel API incompatibilities e.g. in /dev/* and /sys/ and /proc/, for which you may08:05
DocScrutinizer05implement simple (deprecated for future use) janus stubs to link /sys/obsolete/legacy -> /sys/new/leete, possibly with a driver in between to convert the semantics and/or syntax. Then you'll notice some 'proprietary' kernel device drivers are not yet there in Devuan so you might port those to new kernel. Once all that done, you actually could start replacing resp upgrading stuff to Devuan part by part, like cli programs in /bin/ /sbin/08:05
DocScrutinizer05etc, and finally maybe even make busybox based "upstart" init system of maemo just one process started under the genuine Devuan init system, whatever you choose for that08:05
DocScrutinizer05in the end you'll have a set of files to install on top of a regular devuan, and that set of files implements a complete maemo running 'inside' devuan08:09
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: "port new kernel from devuan to maemo" doesn't make much of a sense, since we already kind of have that, on n90009:06
freemangordonalso, most of Fremantle API is dbus based, so "porting" is a matter of either implementing missing dbus services or fixing existing users to use upstream ones09:08
MaxdamantusI'd imagine Debian/Devuan wouldn't use a very special kernel.09:09
* Maxdamantus just uses his own kernels with his Debian machines.09:10
Maxdamantususually all you have to do is have a particular filesystem as your root then exec /sbin/init as pid 1.09:10
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Maxdamantus(for typical Linux-based systems)09:11
freemangordonwhat worries me much ATM, is that gtk3 h-d uses ~100MB of RAM when started09:11
KotCzarnysoo, can we please stay with gtk2?09:12
freemangordonwe may end up like that, yes09:12
freemangordonKotCzarny: but, that high memory usage might be some bug i've introduced, see
KotCzarnywhat worries me a bit, it's transitional period where both toolkits are in use09:19
KotCzarnyas not all apps are ported to gtk3, and some will never be09:19
freemangordonlets decide on that after I've replaced tidy with mx09:19
KotCzarnyanother factor to consider is toolkit speed, since gtk3 is css based, it might be slower09:22
freemangordonKotCzarny: I am not sure right now we use any css in h-d09:25
KotCzarnythemes/config in h-d are defined via css09:26
infobotKotCzarny meant: themes/config in gtk3 are defined via css09:26
MaxdamantusLet's just settle on dwm.09:27
KotCzarnybest test case will be machine set to some low speed and comparing09:28
freemangordonKotCzarny: iiuc h-d itself has hardcoded image files names and hardcoded element distances09:28
KotCzarnydo you have gtk2's version of h-d handy for comparisons?09:29
KotCzarny(to be ran on same machine)09:29
KotCzarnyoh, wow.. gtk 4.009:31
KotCzarny Each 6 months, the new release (Gtk 4.2, Gtk 4.4, Gtk 4.6) will break API and ABI vs. the release that came before it.09:32
KotCzarnyThe first “API stable” version under this new scheme is likely to be something like Gtk 3.26.09:33
KotCzarnymaybe just stick to gtk2 and f*ck it all09:35
freemangordonyes, it may end up like that09:35
freemangordonKotCzarny: I don't have gtk2 h-d on the smae machine, but I have xfce409:36
KotCzarnyfmg, what is missing from gtk2 that gtk3 has?09:37
freemangordonKotCzarny: touch support I guess09:37
KotCzarnypanned area is already done i think09:37
freemangordonin maemo gtk? yes09:37
freemangordonbut it is not the same as upstream gtk209:38
KotCzarnyit should work automatically because its a framework09:38
freemangordonwhat should work automatically?09:38
KotCzarnyso no need to rewrite apps to support scroll-via-gesture09:38
KotCzarnyand since gtk2 wouldnt seen plenty of future releases and maemo-gtk2 is drop in compatible with gtk209:40
KotCzarnymaybe just forward port them to latest gtk2 version ?09:40
KotCzarnythere is a chance there wouldnt be much to fix09:41
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: sure, don't take meaning of my "porting" as a huge work package, for kernel it's just "install the recent kernel (as it's also used in Devuan) to a stock fremantle"10:09
freemangordonand we already did that :)10:09
DocScrutinizer05I think I already mentioned it: the desired end result is absolutely identical for your and my approach. Just your is to lift maemo building blocks one by one onto the Devuan level while mine is dropping Devuan building block one by one down into the maemo level. The core difference is that lifting is prolly more effort than dropping. The result is 100% identical in the end10:13
freemangordonyes, I see your point. But what I think is the problem with it, is that we can't put maemo patched gtk2 for example on devuan servers10:16
DocScrutinizer05hmm, that's a whole new aspect10:17
freemangordonand I still insist that without upstream support, maemo is dead10:17
freemangordonyeas I know, but we should consider it10:17
KotCzarnyfmg: why not?10:17
KotCzarnylibjpegturbo coexists with libjpeg10:17
KotCzarnyand both target same api10:17
freemangordonno libjepg in devuan, only turbo :)10:17
DocScrutinizer05of course. Everything relevant needs consideration. I just never thought of that10:18
KotCzarnythen we will have maemogtk2 instaed of gtk2 in devuan at some point10:18
KotCzarnybut it must be drop-in compatible10:18
freemangordonKotCzarny: do you have maemo libjpeg sources?10:18
freemangordonas I don;t10:18
KotCzarnynono, it was an example that two libs share same api10:19
KotCzarnyand apps can be compiled without changes against any of them10:19
freemangordonmaemo gtk is not ABI/API compatible with upstream gtk10:19
freemangordonso is maemo clutter, etc10:20
DocScrutinizer05wut? freaking weirdos @ Nokla10:20
freemangordondon't ask me :)10:20
freemangordonanyway, time to go to work10:21
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Wizzupfreemangordon: I wouldn't worry too much about initial ram usage, I'm sure it can be reduced quite a bit12:42
DocScrutinizer05optimizing speed, sure. but optimizing a fubar data model, I've not seen that ever really fly13:17
WizzupHow is gtk3 worse than gtk2?13:18
MaxdamantusWirth's law.13:18
Wizzup*shrug* when it comes to widgetsets, you better just keep up with newer releases, or you're stuck with unsupported versions. I don't believe that gtk3 will use to much more ram that it's unsuitable13:19
KotCzarnymultiple toolkits, ahoy!13:20
WizzupKotCzarny: what do you even mean?13:21
KotCzarnyif you have os using gtk3, but apps use gtk2 you must load both libs13:21
WizzupYes, and?13:21
WizzupIt's not like qt isn't loaded often as well on the n900 atm13:22
WizzupImagine not being able to use multiple widget sets at all13:22
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* ceene testing hexchat...15:21
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pkill9anyone know how to fix/replace a dead vibration motor in the N900? and where to get a replacement?19:09
KotCzarnygoogle n900 service manual level 3 or something19:10
KotCzarnyanother broken n900 is a good source of spare parts19:11
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freemangordonWizzup: not sure, but will see once I replace tidy with mx21:35
freemangordonotherwise I can't see how it can be reduced21:35
freemangordonhmm, wait, maemo-launcher that is ;)21:36
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Palifreemangordon: your omapfb patch which reserve memory fails in qemu on error: omapfb: dma_declare_coherent_memory failed21:42
KotCzarnyneeds newer qemu? no cma enabled? bad kernel params?21:42
freemangordonPali: could be, dma_declare... semantics changed in 4.7 ot 4.8 iirc21:45
freemangordonPali: could I have the error21:45
freemangordonno, just the error code21:46
Palimemremap attempted on ram 0x8f800000 size: 0x70000021:46
freemangordonI should have patched that :(21:47
Palirelevant part:
Palimaybe I do not have last version of your patch?21:47
freemangordoncould be21:48
freemangordonis it the same as ?21:48
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freemangordonI think you have the version with DMA_MEMORY_IO instead of DMA_MEMORY_EXCLUSIVE21:48
freemangordonor somesuch21:48
freemangordonPali: which patch do you have?21:49
freemangordonoh, and it was failing for > 2MB, something config has to be changed21:50
freemangordonPali: you definitely have old version of the patch :)21:51
freemangordonPali: still here?!?21:51
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freemangordonhmm, gtk h-d seems to leak, besides initial high memory usage21:52
Palifreemangordon: I'm on #armlinux too :-)21:52
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PaliI will try compare that path21:53
Paliwith current one21:54
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Palifreemangordon: older version with tidspbridge support...22:52
Palinow going to update it to with that new commit22:53
Paliyes, that version fixes it22:58
WizzupMoeIcenowy: freemangordon: where did you get the mali binary?23:06
Wizzupwait, /me will rtfm the wiki23:06

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