IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2016-11-24

enycin PCB layout this week aiui00:00
siceloit has an additional 'thing' between the two halves that makes it thick00:00
siceloi forgot what it's for .. but remember Neo has an extra PCB as well ..00:01
enycsicelo: thats exactly it, spacer frame to allow extra layer and fit everything in sensibly.  hackerbus extra circut can be connected and soforth00:01
DocScrutinizer05spacerframe is just for the added height of PCB sandwich00:03
DocScrutinizer05 13:30...00:05
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slobberalright tonight i'm gonna give another try to putting gentoo on my n81000:06
slobberlast time plenty of issues arose, but i don't remember which00:06
DocScrutinizer05slobber: with gentoo (or any other fgeneric OS) your worst nightmare on N810 is battery management aka charging00:08
slobberoh yeah?00:09
DocScrutinizer05yeah, since it dos sw charging, with a blob00:09
slobberomg that's some shit00:10
slobberyeah im' certainly going to enjoy that00:10
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jonwilI think the hardware of most Android phones and the way it all works (cellular radio bits, Arm TrustZone, secret stuff etc) means a pure software solution for making it secure or private just isn't possible. N900 and Neo900 on the other hand have none of that.00:20
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DocScrutinizer05in basically all recent smartphones, the "modem" is the supervisor and the "linux" system a DomU, in virtualization speak00:35
DocScrutinizer05and that's done for mere cost and size reasons, based on the assumption that "modem" firmware is OK per definition since the manuf made it00:36
DocScrutinizer05just like in early 2G GSM every base station been considered OK since... supposedly nobody ever would build a rogue BTS00:37
DocScrutinizer05Osmocom demonstrated that this assumption is terribly incorrect for base stations. Then Chinal followed where they meanwhile do war driving with rogue BTS00:38
jonwilEven the latest cellular standards have zero security against rogue operators (and since those fake base stations the FBI and NSA are using would be "rogue operators" from the point of view of the network, that will likely never change)00:40
KotCzarnyjonwil, theoretically you need permission to transmit at certain wattage/frequency00:41
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KotCzarnybut it doesnt protect you from bad people.00:41
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jonwilOf course if you are really paranoid the best way to go is to use an off-the-shelf cellular modem and data plan and run an open hardware trusted device talking to that with a VPN on it that encrypts everything so the cellular companies (and any law enforcement or intelligence agencies or other bad actors listening in) cant get anything useful.00:44
jonwilThe way things are going around the world though more and more countries are trying to make that kind of stuff illegal for exactly that reason (stopping all the spying and crap)00:44
jonwilLook at what the UK recently did00:45
jonwilAnd there are rumors that Trump wants the same in the USA (whether he can get it is another matteR)00:45
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: what is it UK did?00:47
DocScrutinizer05btw the funny part in this topic: all security concerned projects like blackphone, cryptophone, even Tor (see link above), once they get aware of the basic problem with supervisor firmware, suggest auditing of that firmware. This is a red herring since a) that firmware is several dozen MB binary in size, pretty much similar in size and complexity to a full linux system, and b) you *never* know when such firmware in modem gets exploited or00:52
DocScrutinizer05updated Over The Air so all your audit results are moot in a matter of seconds00:52
jonwilUK passed laws that (according to whats being said) ban encryption that the government cant get into00:55
jonwilall in the name of stopping the "bad guys" (whoever they are)00:55
jonwilAlso something about requiring everyone to keep records of all the sites you visit and stuff or something00:55
KotCzarnywhat is funny is that nazis had similar 'you dont have to be afraid if you have nothing to hide' program ;)00:56
jonwilthe worst thing is that the idiot sheeple actually think all this crap is going to somehow make them safer (when at the very best it might do nothing and at worst it would make them less safe)00:57
DocScrutinizer05this is a double-trick. It pretends to do something against terrorism so the gvmt looks good, and it tries to suggest to terrorists and criminals there would be "encryption that is not crack-able by authorities" so they might feel save in using those "outlawed" encryption mechanisms00:57
brolin_empeyKotCzarny has Godwinised the conversation.01:05
sixwheeledbeastUk hasn't banned encryption AFAIK. There was talk about trying to do that, but many rightly argued that if the gvmt can access then others could too.01:06
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: that's the usual result of any such movement, when a minimum of competence and common sense has a saying in the decision process01:09
DocScrutinizer05we seen the exactly same discussion a half a dozen times already, in France and whoknowswhere else01:10
sixwheeledbeastAh I thought it was dropped but
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sixwheeledbeastOh well Tor Browser it is then.01:13
DocScrutinizer05iirc PGP been outlawed in France for a few years, maybe a decade ago. It's questionable how to enforce any such law, as well as its efficiency towards the planned purpose01:15
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ANTI_Mossad& psychiatry =   love !!!!!!!      All this mossad&psychiatry MUST be abolished.!!!!!!!!!!!!15:05
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_maniac_at least this one is more entertaining.15:19
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VajbKotCzarny: oh lord of the commandline. Is there a command to delete empty directories?18:11
KotCzarnyrmdir or rm -rf18:11
KotCzarnyunless you search for ONLY empty dirs18:11
Vajbyes i meant automated process18:12
Vajblike if i have folder /music and i delete songs via rhythmbox, that leaves empty folder somewhere there18:13
KotCzarnyhmm, i wonder how would rm -rd behave18:13
Vajbrm --help in maemo didn't help at all :)18:13
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Vajbi'll have to google it when i get on to it really18:14
KotCzarnyfind . -type d -empty -delete18:15
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KotCzarnyabove works, but i wonder if maemo's crippled find will work18:17
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slobberVajb: for ugh in *; do ls -A "$ugh" || rm -r $ugh; done18:23
slobberuntested though18:23
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Vajbdoesn't matter because search will take place in my desktop18:23
KotCzarnynah. that find command is short, elegant and simple to remember18:23
slobberoh i didn't even notice that18:23
slobberfuck me18:23
slobbera+ KotCzarny18:23
Vajbthx for the command KotCzarny18:24
slobberi've been working graveyard since 10pm, my head is in my ass18:24
Vajbi'll add it to my "usefull commands" list18:24
KotCzarnywhat's best it removes empty dirs bottom-up18:24
KotCzarnyso if there are only empty dirs in some dir it will remove it too18:25
Vajbso it starts from deepest subfolder?18:26
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Vajbcool, thx18:26
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bencohVajb: find . -type d -exec rmdir {} \;18:41
bencoh? :)18:41
bencohah nevermind, -empty works too :)18:41
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Wizzupfreemangordon: wrt gtk, is the target right now gtk3 porting right away?19:21
WizzupIt may also be possible to have a/the maemo-patched gtk on devuan as well, as 'maemogtk' perhaps, to get things running, and then just ensure that all maemo stuff links against that lib19:21
WizzupNot sure if that'd be a real pita19:21
freemangordonthe target is gtk319:21
Wizzup(reading the tmo thread now)19:22
KotCzarnyfmg, why not gtk2?19:22
freemangordoniirc we can;t compile maemo gtk, because of glib is too new19:22
KotCzarnyim not a big fan of gtk319:22
freemangordonneither am I, but...19:22
KotCzarnygnome guys are on the downward spiral (systemd, udev, gtk3/gnome, etc)19:23
infobotKotCzarny meant: gnome guys are on the downward spiral (systemd, dbus, gtk3/gnome, etc)19:23
KotCzarnyudev is actually not that bad19:23
Wizzupwell, I don't care about gtk2 or gtk3, I was just wondering what is easier19:23
WizzupIf we have something running that just works well, then we can alwasys have someone port it back to gtk2 is they want, but it it seems that gtk3 does make life easier wrt touch19:23
KotCzarnywizzup, most of maemo ui is written in gtk2, right?19:23
WizzupKotCzarny: I am really trying to figure out more low level stuff about maemo, but IDN. I think it's mostly gtk219:24
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