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| wnd | At work, we're using Puppet to manage production servers. In one of the environments all nodes are using SystemD. Once in a while when nginx configuration changes, nginx ends up stopped, but according to SystemD it's active(stopped) or something like that. As much as I'd like to blame this solely on SystemD, I also wonder is Puppet really is sending stop/start. Still, SystemD believes everything is fine. | 00:29 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | seen that on something around web too, yes | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | con't recall details, ask dos1 | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but might be exactly same issue - just without puppet | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | systemdoom solves the problems nobody has, while introducing age old new ones nobody needs | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it's 'conveniently' mutually exclusive to all other possible options, so nobody can choose to opt out | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you spin an effort like devuan, which is for sure a massive and daunting task | 00:40 |
| _maniac_ | wnd: you should see nginx receiving signals in its error log. | 00:41 |
| _maniac_ | to be honest, integrated solution like systemd *sounds* good for small devices (like n900) where you might need its features like starting services waiting for dbus socket even before dbus. | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | small devices benefit from modularization, not from monolithic monsters like systemd | 00:45 |
| _maniac_ | e.g. systemd would be good if it wasn't systemd - broken pile of code that works just enough of time to justify mass adoption. | 00:45 |
| KotCzarny | things in linux grow as a small projects, coexist with existent solutions, then if they are interesting/working/enough people consider them stable, get promoted into primary function doers | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I never thought messybox was a smart choice for maemo5 - but systemdoom is messybox^4 | 00:47 |
| KotCzarny | systemd was rushed | 00:47 |
| KotCzarny | and its pushed more and more down the linux community throat | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, Nokia already messed up stuff with partitioning and mounting, regarding /usr. But with systemd that would have been mandatory | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification | 00:48 |
| infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" | 00:48 |
| _maniac_ | heh | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | this guy knows *exactly* what he's talking about: https://twitter.com/ascherbaum/status/771392009185718272 | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freedesktop, gnome and the systemd cabal have no damn clue about the concepts behind a decent OS like unix | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe they even do and deliberately ignore any mandatory sane consequences since those don't match their own agenda | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unholy alliance between RH and Suse | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | both crafting their long term business model for the next 30 years | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | appshops backed by trusted computing and secure boot, on a system basically too complex for any single person to maintain it: | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~systemd | 01:03 |
| infobot | systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, H. Hoyer, D. Mack, T. Gundersen, D. Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel. See ~nosystemd" | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>This is going to be a longer story, so better grab a cold bottle of Club Mate before you start reading.<< no, better grab a bottle of rum or vodka, you'll need it | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read >>* Since there are so many different distributions...<< and >>* The distributions are actually quite different...<< and >>* Developing software for a number of distributions and versions is hard...<< and >>* Since most downstream distributions have strict licensing and trademark requirements<< and you get an idea which idea of >"One Ring to rule them all..." and to make *our* (distro maintainers') life more easy, and let us earn | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | truckloads of money< concept they're pursuing | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually each single sentence is an insult: >>The toolbox approach of classic Linux distributions is fantastic for people who want to put together their individual system, nicely adjusted to exactly what they need. However, this is not really how many of today's Linux systems are built<< | 01:15 |
| _maniac_ | ok. I think it was asked before many times, but I wasn't there. How much effort is needed to turn maemo into a proper linux? | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>you don't install or remove packages, you get a defined set of files, and besides installing or updating the system there are no ways how to change the set of tools you get.<< -- calling *this* a ``major use-case of Linux´´ makes me want to beat up somebody | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo IS proper linus | 01:18 |
| KotCzarny | maniac: define 'proper' | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | linux even | 01:19 |
| _maniac_ | where I don't get surprised by files locations | 01:19 |
| KotCzarny | if you mean 'current' or 'updated to newest libs' it needs some things patched/RE in kernel | 01:19 |
| _maniac_ | (at least) | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I get surprised by file locations from ubuntu systems | 01:19 |
| KotCzarny | but applies to your case too, because right now its tied to some proprietary packages/drivers | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ls -lR /|less plus a rainy sunday afternoon and a huge pot of tea and cookies goes a looong way | 01:20 |
| _maniac_ | ok, yes. your 'define "proper"' makes me shut up and think. | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I thinl "proper" is pretty simple to define: just see how many lines-of-code (in percent of total) you need to change in arbitrary - say - debian packages to make them run on the system under test | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui you can compile >90% of debian packages with no changes at all and they'll just work under maemo | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure you usually want to hildonize the GUI | 01:28 |
| KotCzarny | proper is sticking to *nix digma: do one thing, but do it perfect | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I seem to recall I also have seen KDE running on N900 | 01:28 |
| KotCzarny | and building os from those little bits that work perfectly | 01:29 |
| Wizzup | I don't think KDE would be usable on a n900. | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usable is another cettle of fish | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tbh KDE was barely usable on my CF-27 with its 192MB RAM and a P-II300 | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | was it running a proper linux? heck yes | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err CF-25 that been | 01:31 |
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| KotCzarny | so, i got another n900 (im addicted or what). what does nonpulsing orange mean after connecting charger? | 18:39 |
| KotCzarny | (i didnt try to turn it on yet) | 18:39 |
| KotCzarny | is it flatbat case or something else? | 18:40 |
| KotCzarny | (right now i'll try to charge it for 30 minutes and see what will happen) | 18:40 |
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| bencoh | KotCzarny: I'd say yes | 18:44 |
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| bencoh | and/or no kernel/rootfs to boot from after a few mins | 18:44 |
| KotCzarny | still steady orange, so i guess rootfs/kernel b0rken. but battery is charging, right? | 18:44 |
| sunshavi | why You don't swap batteries. With another working n900 :) | 18:45 |
| KotCzarny | will do, just wanted to make sure what steady orange means | 18:46 |
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| kerio | steady orange means that bq24150 is not getting any instructions on what to do | 18:47 |
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| kerio | for one reason or another | 18:47 |
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| kerio | so after 30(?) seconds it'll default to a slow charging mode | 18:48 |
| kerio | up to a point | 18:48 |
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| KotCzarny | oh. something happened | 18:50 |
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| KotCzarny | turned on for a moment, showed 'nokia' logo, screen went crazy and turned off | 18:50 |
| bencoh | welcome to flat battery boot loop | 18:51 |
| bencoh | (with broken rootfs bonus) | 18:51 |
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| KotCzarny | yup, apparently | 18:51 |
| bencoh | ~bootloop | 18:51 |
| bencoh | ~flatloop | 18:51 |
| bencoh | err | 18:51 |
| infobot | it has been said that bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device. | 18:52 |
| bencoh | whatever the spelling is, I kinda remember doc talking about that | 18:52 |
| bencoh | oooh | 18:52 |
| KotCzarny | rescueos should boot still | 18:52 |
| KotCzarny | lets see | 18:52 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: not sure | 18:52 |
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| bencoh | booting from usb with an empty battery has always been touchy | 18:53 |
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| KotCzarny | ~flasher | 18:55 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, flasher is at http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz. HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz, or -- list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ | 18:55 |
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| KotCzarny | ~flashing | 19:06 |
| infobot | it has been said that maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing | 19:06 |
| KotCzarny | ok, rescueos booted with diff. battery | 19:08 |
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| KotCzarny | i guess i'll just flash it | 19:08 |
| KotCzarny | Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2204 | 19:10 |
| KotCzarny | NOLO version 1.4.14 | 19:10 |
| KotCzarny | Version of 'sw-release': RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_MR0 | 19:10 |
| KotCzarny | so far so good | 19:10 |
| KotCzarny | why is it erasing cmt twice? hum | 19:10 |
| KotCzarny | Erasing CMT: 98%CMT flashing failed | 19:11 |
| KotCzarny | sorry, flashing RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin (NOLO, rootfs, modem-fw) failed with errorcode 0 | 19:11 |
| KotCzarny | o.o | 19:11 |
| KotCzarny | does it mean modem is shot? | 19:12 |
| bencoh | not necessarily iirc | 19:12 |
| KotCzarny | i think last time it flashed on 98% cmt, it was with broken modem board | 19:12 |
| bencoh | it probably wont work if it failed at 98% though | 19:12 |
| Pali | try again | 19:13 |
| Pali | or try to use 0xFFFF | 19:13 |
| bencoh | huhu, Pali reads in my mind :) | 19:13 |
| bencoh | (hey there btw, long time no "see") | 19:13 |
| KotCzarny | i think its in bootloop now | 19:13 |
| KotCzarny | doesnt even show nokia logo | 19:13 |
| Pali | 1. make sure you have fully charget battery | 19:14 |
| Pali | (if not use external charger, etc) | 19:14 |
| Pali | 2. do full reflash again | 19:14 |
| KotCzarny | does it have to be fully charged? | 19:14 |
| Pali | should be | 19:14 |
| Pali | or at least half, but working battery, not some old | 19:15 |
| KotCzarny | dont remember how much juice my testing spare had, will try flashing again, then will charge it if it fails | 19:15 |
| Pali | so voltage does not decrease under some value | 19:15 |
| KotCzarny | pity device doesnt charge during flashing | 19:16 |
| Pali | modem cannot operate if voltage is low | 19:16 |
| bencoh | KotCzarny: I'd just leave it alone for a few hours :) | 19:16 |
| Pali | and so it can defunct when trying to flash modem part | 19:16 |
| KotCzarny | nah, i'll use my primary phone batt if it fails again, its almost full today | 19:17 |
| Pali | btw, modem is own "system" and their bootloader refuse to downgrade modem firmware | 19:17 |
| KotCzarny | pali, hw revision is 2204, could it be the reason? | 19:18 |
| Pali | so I can imagine that lossing or memory or damaging some data in modem memory can lead that modem refuse to flash because of that "downgrade" restriction | 19:18 |
| Pali | hw revision should not be reason | 19:18 |
| Pali | just use correct firmware for it (both 0xFFFF and flasher-3.5 choose correct from FIASCO binary) | 19:19 |
| KotCzarny | im using doc's script | 19:19 |
| Pali | should be OK | 19:19 |
| Pali | do not experiment and use fully charget battery | 19:19 |
| Pali | *charged | 19:19 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, im just doing that | 19:19 |
| Pali | btw, flashing cmt images is implemented in NOLO :-( so 0xFFFF is just wraper around NOLO | 19:21 |
| Pali | there is no direct communication with modem | 19:21 |
| KotCzarny | same error | 19:21 |
| KotCzarny | :/ | 19:21 |
| Pali | can you post output? | 19:21 |
| KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw/xWG1Jw0N | 19:22 |
| Pali | thats bad | 19:23 |
| KotCzarny | can i flash without modem part? | 19:23 |
| Pali | can you try to preload libusb-sniff-32.so (from 0xFFFF) for flasher-3.5? | 19:24 |
| Pali | and flash only cmt parts? | 19:24 |
| Pali | that will print looong output (dump usb packets) | 19:24 |
| KotCzarny | shall i redirect output or its not that much? | 19:25 |
| KotCzarny | ~0xFFFF | 19:25 |
| infobot | somebody said 0xffff was https://github.com/pali/0xFFFF, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=87996 | 19:25 |
| Pali | and there maybe could be some text error message from NOLO | 19:25 |
| Pali | redirect to file | 19:25 |
| Pali | both stdout and stderr | 19:25 |
| Pali | it print every one usb packet | 19:25 |
| Pali | go to src/ | 19:26 |
| Pali | $ make libusb-sniff-32.so | 19:26 |
| KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw/4mN0VEgD | 19:27 |
| Pali | hm... you have gcc5 | 19:28 |
| Pali | probably they broke something... argh! | 19:28 |
| KotCzarny | i can downgrade, no problem if its the only thing | 19:28 |
| Pali | I used only gcc4 and it worked fine | 19:28 |
| Pali | maybe sure that you have gcc multilib | 19:28 |
| KotCzarny | how do i check? | 19:29 |
| Pali | resp. you have 32bit libs for -m32 | 19:29 |
| KotCzarny | 32bit os | 19:29 |
| Pali | then you have it :-) | 19:29 |
| KotCzarny | what i love about slack is that i can just install old gcc packages without dependency hell | 19:38 |
| KotCzarny | k, compiled now | 19:38 |
| KotCzarny | what was the flashing cmdline? | 19:40 |
| Pali | use flasher-3.5 | 19:41 |
| Pali | just preload that built library | 19:41 |
| KotCzarny | yes, but with which args | 19:41 |
| Pali | --flash-only=cmt | 19:42 |
| Pali | looks like this will do that | 19:42 |
| KotCzarny | other args? (if you know out of the head) | 19:42 |
| Pali | at least --help say that | 19:42 |
| Pali | normal args | 19:43 |
| KotCzarny | its combined or vanilla image? | 19:43 |
| Pali | -F for fiasco image | 19:43 |
| Pali | combined image | 19:43 |
| Pali | and -f (which will flash) | 19:43 |
| KotCzarny | LD_PRELOAD=./libusb-sniff-32.so ./maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2/flasher-3.5 --flash-only=cmt -f -F RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 19:43 |
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| KotCzarny | anything else? | 19:43 |
| Pali | I think thats all, do not remember | 19:44 |
| Pali | plus redirect output (stdout + stderr) to file | 19:44 |
| Pali | and watch what is in file | 19:44 |
| KotCzarny | lots of output | 19:45 |
| KotCzarny | lets wait | 19:45 |
| KotCzarny | 44M log already | 19:45 |
| KotCzarny | he he | 19:45 |
| Pali | I wrote that :-) | 19:46 |
| KotCzarny | btw. why does it erase cmt twice? | 19:47 |
| Pali | do not know | 19:47 |
| Pali | IIRC operations are done by NOLO itself | 19:47 |
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| Pali | via usb you just send headr + image and then tell command "flash" | 19:48 |
| Pali | and after that you can ask for flash status | 19:48 |
| Pali | and NOLO tell you what it is doing now with modem | 19:48 |
| KotCzarny | i assume you are interested in ~2 last pages of output? | 19:48 |
| KotCzarny | or everything? | 19:48 |
| Pali | it could be in end of output | 19:49 |
| KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw/xeCBwWz1 | 19:49 |
| Pali | but do not know if 2 pages will be enough | 19:49 |
| Pali | hm... nothing :-( | 19:50 |
| Pali | just "error" | 19:50 |
| KotCzarny | yup, what can i do now? | 19:50 |
| Pali | fucking NOLO, it does not forward error messgae | 19:50 |
| Pali | no idea :-( | 19:51 |
| Pali | looks like internal memory of modem is broken | 19:51 |
| Pali | as erasing is faling (for unknown reason) | 19:52 |
| KotCzarny | might be broken modem | 19:52 |
| KotCzarny | i have the same failure at 98% in one other board | 19:52 |
| KotCzarny | but at least it was working (- modem functions) | 19:53 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^^ any idea? | 19:53 |
| Pali | is there any way to "hard" reset/clear N900 modem? | 19:53 |
| KotCzarny | this one probably needs some flashing, how do i flash user space only? | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry in a meeting, give me the telegram pls | 19:53 |
| KotCzarny | ie. emmc | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 19:53 |
| Pali | KotCzarny: flash only rootfs | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | proven theoretical or practical? | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or even "reset to factory"? | 19:54 |
| Pali | NOLO for unknown reason cannot erase modem when flashing | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ugh | 19:54 |
| KotCzarny | pali: rootfs is in combined? | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then you're out of luck to a degree where all you could try is check if modem answers via pnatd | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most likely it's a hw defect | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | modem implements same ARM coldflashing like OMAP3 | 19:55 |
| Pali | and is too shy to tell us why | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just it's NOLO doing that for the modem, or even maemo userland | 19:56 |
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| Pali | is there some way to do that coldflash? | 19:56 |
| Pali | KotCzarny: yes rootfs is in combined | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* each modem firmware update is coldflashing | 19:57 |
| KotCzarny | rootfs isnt cutting it (not even nokia/5dots) | 19:57 |
| Pali | KotCzarny: and flash also kernel | 19:57 |
| Pali | maemo can update modem FW too | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I think modem flashing is even done by userland, so obviously to flash modem you need a working maemo userland first | 19:58 |
| Pali | but for that is needed DEB package | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not all sure but would be plausible | 19:58 |
| Pali | from nokia repository :-( | 19:58 |
| Pali | plus that DEB package remove modem image after flashing | 19:58 |
| Pali | so even you have installed it, you do not have image anymore | 19:59 |
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| KotCzarny | hmm | 20:06 |
| KotCzarny | how do i reset user data (emmc) ? | 20:07 |
| KotCzarny | its in bootloop still | 20:07 |
| KotCzarny | ~bootloop | 20:07 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device. | 20:07 |
| KotCzarny | also weird thing is, at first i was getting output on the screen (during boot or in rescueos) | 20:10 |
| KotCzarny | now i dont. what could be the reason? is there some display firmware somewhere that got broken during flash? | 20:10 |
| Pali | after flashing emmc you need to flash rootfs | 20:11 |
| KotCzarny | stupid question, how do i flash emmc? | 20:12 |
| Pali | via flasher-3.5 | 20:12 |
| KotCzarny | but which image/params | 20:12 |
| Pali | pass fiasco emmc image | 20:12 |
| KotCzarny | vanilla, yes? | 20:12 |
| Pali | fiasco emmc binary contains only mmc image | 20:12 |
| Pali | yes | 20:12 |
| KotCzarny | k | 20:12 |
| KotCzarny | afair, missing display (bad cable/screen) could also be the bootloop reason | 20:24 |
| Pali | do you see nokia logo? | 20:35 |
| KotCzarny | nope | 20:36 |
| Pali | and can you identify device via flasher-3.5? | 20:37 |
| KotCzarny | display/cable/chip might be the reason | 20:37 |
| KotCzarny | yes, i can flash it/boot rescueos. just nothing on screen (and as i said, it was working earlier) | 20:38 |
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| Pali | hm... maybe problem with display | 20:38 |
| KotCzarny | wow, 9usd for display ribbon | 20:38 |
| Pali | in flash mode you should see NOKIA log | 20:38 |
| KotCzarny | anyone got a cheap source for them? | 20:39 |
| KotCzarny | http://www.ebay.com/p/Fake-Camera-Flex-Cable-Ribbon-for-Nokia-N900-a-355/1331819378 | 20:39 |
| KotCzarny | wtf? | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bootlog | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/PC_syslog_of_USB_enum | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues PC_syslog_of_USB_enum | 20:55 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'PC_syslog_of_USB_enum' by value returned no results. | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo PC_bootlog is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/PC_syslog_of_USB_enum | 20:56 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 | 20:56 |
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