IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2016-06-17

« Thursday, 2016-06-16 Index Saturday, 2016-06-18 »
DocScrutinizer05reject all emails from *@gmail as spam00:00
DocScrutinizer05for maemo I think we should really try to get a working virtualization solution that allows running complete arbitrary alien OS like android _under_ maemo00:05
*** florian has joined #maemo00:05
*** xorly has quit IRC00:15
*** troulouliou_div2 has quit IRC00:21
*** eijk has joined #maemo00:30
*** eijk has quit IRC00:34
*** eijk_ has joined #maemo00:39
*** eijk_ has joined #maemo00:39
*** trumee_ has joined #maemo00:42
*** troulouliou_div2 has joined #maemo00:45
*** eijk_ has quit IRC00:50
*** r00t^home has joined #maemo00:52
*** Venemo_j has joined #maemo00:54
*** trumee_ is now known as trumee00:55
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC00:59
*** xkr47 has quit IRC00:59
*** Venemo_ has joined #maemo00:59
*** pagurus has quit IRC01:00
*** povbot has joined #maemo01:13
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC01:17
*** Venemo_j has joined #maemo01:22
*** florian has quit IRC01:27
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC01:28
*** Venemo_j has joined #maemo01:28
*** trumee has quit IRC01:30
*** trumee has joined #maemo01:30
*** troulouliou_div2 has quit IRC01:30
*** trumee has quit IRC01:32
*** trumee has joined #maemo01:32
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC01:34
*** Venemo_ has joined #maemo01:34
*** trumee has quit IRC01:36
*** trumee has joined #maemo01:38
*** povbot has joined #maemo01:42
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC01:43
*** Pali has quit IRC02:54
OksanaLike apkenv? Did not work for ages, I think. Or you mean running whole OS, not just separate apps? There is rumoured to exist chroot, but no idea how it works...03:12
*** Ex-Opesa has quit IRC03:12
*** Ex-Opesa has joined #maemo03:13
DocScrutinizer05I mean a complete virualization. like vmware or KVM03:15
DocScrutinizer05prolly quemu based03:15
*** hadara_ has quit IRC03:35
*** trumee has quit IRC03:38
*** trumee has joined #maemo03:38
DocScrutinizer05A late Nokia technical officer explained the possible new strategy of Nokia phones as having a small linux virtualization host and running arbitrary OS as VM instances under it03:41
DocScrutinizer05alas it was too late for this brilliant approach03:41
DocScrutinizer05while the concept isn't all new, it was revolutionary for Nokia I'd say. Brilliant too03:42
*** hadara has joined #maemo03:46
*** RedW has quit IRC03:54
*** RedW has joined #maemo03:58
OksanaRequires strong processor, too. Because one of functions of VM is to make hardware abstract enough that OS would not need to be ported anew to each and every device?03:58
DocScrutinizer05hw abstraction doesn't need strong CPU per se04:11
DocScrutinizer05emulating another processor architecture for sure needs a CPU with a lot of grunt04:11
DocScrutinizer05but emulating a hw platform only has impact to code that tries to access peripherals that don't exist in the host platform04:12
OksanaHmm, so should have been fine. As long as people do not try to put into a VM an OS trying to access peripheral devices not existing in this hardware04:13
DocScrutinizer05it works roughly like "code tries to access a peripheral that doesn't really exist, and that causes a software exception that makes the virtualization supervisor jump into a handler that emulates the non existing peripheral"04:13
DocScrutinizer05even then the emulation often is on par with the physical peripheral, by speed04:14
DocScrutinizer05compare virtual CD vs physical CD04:15
DocScrutinizer05virtualization isn't that bad per se, it gets nasty only when you have a different CPU architecture which needs full emulation of the virtual CPU04:16
DocScrutinizer05this is slower by factor 5 to 100, compared to the real CPU (and scaled by grunt of the emulating CPU -  a 3GHz I7 can emulate a Z80 at speeds that would exceed the original physical Z80 by factor 100 or 1000)04:17
*** Humpelstilzchen has quit IRC04:18
DocScrutinizer05create a VM on your PC and run in it whatever you like. Check the speed of the VM04:18
DocScrutinizer05it might suck at display access and at network card and possibly even harddisk access, but generally it's not THAT much slower than your genuine OS04:19
*** Defiant has joined #maemo04:21
DocScrutinizer05check http://neo900.org or maemo.cloud-7.de - both are VM04:21
DocScrutinizer05yes, emulating a PVR in software for sure would suck bicg time04:24
DocScrutinizer05I mean, there's a reason why you got hw gfx accel, not sw driver doing that job on main CPU04:25
DocScrutinizer05same for DSP or any other "peripheral" hardware that's not available to the VM and thus needs to get emulated04:26
DocScrutinizer05but still, (except for graphics and/or DSP) the 99% majority of code runs on CPU and RAM, bit doesn't need any virtualization/emulation in a VM as long as the CPU architecture is identical (or compatible)04:27
OksanaYes, but there are some cases when software crashes with accel enabled, and works but has mouse-pointer moving very slowly with accel disabled. And software developers blame it on gfx driver (which happens to be proprietary), and all other programs do not seem to have this issue04:28
*** eMHa__ has joined #maemo04:28
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC04:32
DocScrutinizer05yes, though unrelated, this is annoying04:50
DocScrutinizer05I know a similar case from audio domain, where twinklephone unlike most other programs didn't work at all with PA's crappy buggy emulation lib for ALSA device, simply because twinkle uses ALSA functions (here: flush_buffer() or the like) that most other audio apps don't need, and so only twinkle suffers form PA's lack to implement that ALSA function decently04:53
DocScrutinizer05while most users would blame twinklephone, it's actually the crappy PolypAudio that spoils stuff here04:55
DocScrutinizer05and of course "no other program suffers this problem"04:56
DocScrutinizer05and users have a _very_ hard time understanding why twinkephone can't fix the issue04:56
*** Ex-Opesa has quit IRC04:57
*** LauRoman|Alt has joined #maemo04:59
*** Ex-Opesa has joined #maemo05:01
DocScrutinizer05I guess very similar issues can be found for e.g. gfx accel closed drivers05:01
*** LauRoman has quit IRC05:02
DocScrutinizer05for virtualized gfx you usually have special drivers that are written especially for the virtualization to work nice and with low overhead for the emulated graphics card05:05
DocScrutinizer05the better ones of those special drivers could even pass through gfx accel comands to the host's physical gfx accel machine05:06
DocScrutinizer05which obviously also is a wide attacj surface for exploits to escape the virtualization and mess with host05:07
DocScrutinizer05in case of maemo we have OpenGL-ES as a rather hw-independent ABI/API to the GFX accel, and I guess on Android for OMAP a similar (if not the same) API for GFX accel must exist and offer excellent interface to implement a dedicated driver optimized to work inside a VM under maemo05:20
DocScrutinizer05I'd guess the VM penalty for genuine (e.g android) OAMP code to be in the range of a few percent05:22
DocScrutinizer05OMAP even05:22
*** L29Ah has left #maemo06:19
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo06:19
*** LogMorF has joined #maemo06:21
*** fishbulb has joined #maemo06:24
fishbulbfor bluetooth PAN06:24
fishbulbis there a devel package or something that I can install06:24
*** LogMorF has quit IRC06:25
sunshavifishbulb: no pkgs . You need to install kernel-power-modules06:38
sunshavimodify /etc/network/interfaces06:38
sunshaviand add on /etc/udev/rules.d/50-bnep.rules06:40
sunshavithat should do the magic. which one is your kernel version?. For me on cssu-testing kernel is not working06:41
sunshavisee: http://talk.maemo.org/archive/index.php/t-58570-p-2.html06:51
DocScrutinizer05cssu-testing doesn't relate to kernel in any way06:59
DocScrutinizer05cssu (except *-thumb) and kernels are completely orthogonal06:59
*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC07:00
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo07:00
DocScrutinizer05cssu-testing doesn't relate to kernel in any way07:00
DocScrutinizer05cssu (except *-thumb) and kernels are completely orthogonal07:00
*** L29Ah has left #maemo07:10
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo07:10
*** ruskie has quit IRC07:11
*** ruskie has joined #maemo07:24
OksanaSounds like a very neat package... https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/sound/nted Except for libgtk2.0-0 dependency. And libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0. In short: "build from source in this tangled net of Debian dependencies"07:37
*** sunshavi has quit IRC08:04
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC08:54
*** ecloud has quit IRC08:55
*** ecloud has joined #maemo08:59
*** Arch-TK has quit IRC10:04
*** Arch-TK has joined #maemo10:09
*** geaaru has joined #maemo10:09
fishbulbI have power kernel10:13
*** florian has joined #maemo10:15
*** tanty_off is now known as tanty10:19
*** Pali has joined #maemo10:22
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo10:22
*** netkat has quit IRC10:26
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo10:26
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo10:26
*** lobito has quit IRC10:36
DocScrutinizer05then you only need step #2 and #3 of sunshavi's advice11:05
DocScrutinizer05~pan11:06
DocScrutinizer05hmm11:06
DocScrutinizer05~bt-pan11:06
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys #maemo*pan11:07
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys #maemo.*pan11:07
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys pan11:07
DocScrutinizer05~ping11:07
DocScrutinizer05*sigh*11:09
DocScrutinizer05takes ages11:09
*** infobot has joined #maemo11:10
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys #maemo*pan11:10
infobotFactoid search of '#maemo*pan' by key (1): #maemo pan.11:10
DocScrutinizer05~pan11:10
infobotfrom memory, pan is https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN11:10
Siceloceene & other qt devs: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/confclerk - maemo meets the dependencies for this package .. so i think it should build fine for N900. doable in SB? or i need something else (qt-creator maybe, whatever that is ..)?11:11
*** Defiant has quit IRC11:21
*** Defiant has joined #maemo11:21
*** qt_junkie has quit IRC11:23
*** parazyd has quit IRC11:23
*** qt_junkie has joined #maemo11:23
*** parazyd has joined #maemo11:23
*** souljack has joined #maemo11:30
*** bredebid has joined #maemo11:36
*** MikaT_ has quit IRC11:36
*** MikaT has joined #maemo11:36
*** totalizator_ has joined #maemo11:37
*** Wizzup_ has joined #maemo11:37
*** Kilroo has quit IRC11:37
*** Pali has quit IRC11:40
*** script has quit IRC11:41
*** hellekin has quit IRC11:41
*** script has joined #maemo11:42
*** totalizator has quit IRC11:42
*** hellekin has joined #maemo11:42
*** Ex-Opesa has quit IRC11:43
*** Wizzup has quit IRC11:43
*** ceene has quit IRC11:43
*** Pali has joined #maemo11:43
*** Ex-Opesa has joined #maemo11:43
*** Kilroo has joined #maemo11:44
*** ceene has joined #maemo11:44
*** zGrr has joined #maemo11:47
zGrrbry11:48
*** lobito has joined #maemo12:00
*** freemangordon_ has joined #maemo12:03
*** souljack has quit IRC12:21
*** bruce_lee has joined #maemo12:27
*** jskarvad has joined #maemo12:31
*** N-Mi has quit IRC12:33
*** geaaru has quit IRC12:39
*** lxp has joined #maemo12:46
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo12:47
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo12:47
*** geaaru has joined #maemo12:52
*** vakkov has quit IRC13:06
*** vakkov has joined #maemo13:21
*** jskarvad is now known as jskarvad_lunch13:24
*** vakkov has quit IRC13:36
*** souljack_ has joined #maemo13:38
*** lobito has quit IRC13:39
*** vakkov has joined #maemo13:49
*** clopez has quit IRC13:51
*** clopez has joined #maemo13:54
*** netkat has joined #maemo14:03
*** jskarvad_lunch is now known as jskarvad14:36
*** L29Ah has left #maemo14:40
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo14:40
*** handaxe has joined #maemo14:54
*** bredebid has quit IRC14:54
*** totalizator_ is now known as totalizator14:56
*** handaxe has quit IRC14:58
*** bruce_lee has quit IRC15:47
*** bruce_lee has joined #maemo15:47
*** eijk has joined #maemo15:58
*** bredebid has joined #maemo16:06
*** florian has quit IRC16:11
*** sunshavi has joined #maemo16:17
*** sunshavi has quit IRC16:27
*** sunshavi has joined #maemo16:28
*** tanty is now known as tanty_off16:29
*** tanty_off is now known as tanty16:32
*** enyc has quit IRC16:49
*** enyc has joined #maemo16:50
*** freemangordon_ has quit IRC17:07
*** L29Ah has left #maemo17:10
*** pagurus has joined #maemo17:12
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo17:35
*** Wizzup_ is now known as Wizzup17:45
*** Wizzup has quit IRC17:45
*** Guest68977 has joined #maemo17:46
*** Wizzup_ has joined #maemo17:46
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo17:47
*** eijk_ has joined #maemo17:55
*** eijk has quit IRC17:58
*** zGrr has quit IRC18:05
*** at1as has quit IRC18:06
*** N-Mi has quit IRC18:10
*** handaxe has joined #maemo18:20
*** Tenhi_ has joined #maemo18:21
*** Tenhi_ has quit IRC18:23
*** handaxe has quit IRC18:24
*** flo_lap has quit IRC18:32
*** krnlyng has quit IRC18:37
*** louisdk has joined #maemo18:38
*** oceanic has joined #maemo18:40
*** at1as has joined #maemo18:44
*** krnlyng has joined #maemo18:50
*** louisdk has quit IRC19:05
*** tanty is now known as tanty_off19:14
*** pagurus has quit IRC19:14
*** jskarvad has quit IRC19:20
*** louisdk has joined #maemo19:20
*** freemangordon has quit IRC19:25
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo19:34
*** freemangordon has quit IRC19:36
*** at1as has quit IRC19:46
*** at1as has joined #maemo19:57
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo19:58
*** eijk_ has quit IRC20:18
*** bredebid has quit IRC20:26
*** at1as has quit IRC20:27
*** at1as has joined #maemo20:56
*** L29Ah has quit IRC20:59
*** eijk_ has joined #maemo21:08
Siceloanother question: how does N900 'know' that a wireless network it is connected to has no Internet access? I've noticed that it will switch back to 3G/2G automatically when Internet connection goes down on the AP (the AP is still connected 'locally'). So N900 sends some pings or something?21:08
*** eijk_ has quit IRC21:09
*** eijk_ has joined #maemo21:10
Sicelolastly, batteries: do these look legit, and reasonable cost (US$14), http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/233162162/Nokia_BL_5J_Li_Polymer_Battery_for_Selective_Nokia_Models.html?LoginTime=146618018599921:11
KotCzarnyit says 'genuine'21:11
KotCzarnybut it would require more photos21:12
KotCzarnyespecially of the pin part21:12
KotCzarnyhttps://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=562244&postcount=121:13
Sicelointeresting. had never seen that one before. thanks21:16
KotCzarnyread the whole thread then21:16
KotCzarnybut keep in mind its from 2010, 6 years can make all the difference in faking technology21:17
Sicelomy batteries on both N900 are completely toast now :(21:20
KotCzarnysicelo, consider using 18650 and electronics from bl-5j21:21
KotCzarnyhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8657121:21
Sicelohttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1261523&postcount=821:23
Siceloa part of me would like to get a power bank too, but needs to be a quality product21:26
SiceloKotCzarny: the pics on my advert seem to pass the test in your first post .. but of course, these pics are also very likely taken from Internet (not the actual battery that will get delivered)21:28
*** wnd has quit IRC21:42
*** wnd has joined #maemo21:43
*** geaaru has quit IRC21:58
*** eijk_ has quit IRC21:58
*** silviof has quit IRC22:01
*** at1as has quit IRC22:09
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo22:14
*** louisdk has quit IRC22:47
*** enyc has quit IRC22:55
*** enyc has joined #maemo22:55
*** xelo has joined #maemo23:08
*** LauRoman|Alt has quit IRC23:08
*** lobito has joined #maemo23:25
*** L29Ah has joined #maemo23:39
*** bruce_lee has quit IRC23:59
« Thursday, 2016-06-16 Index Saturday, 2016-06-18 »

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!