IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2016-06-02

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DocScrutinizer05[2016-06-01 Wed 14:48:34] <Centurion_Dan> I proposed a Code of Conduct recently for the NZ Open Source Society, because all the others were far too wordy to be useful and effective.00:56
DocScrutinizer05[2016-06-01 Wed 14:48:45] <djph> ... it's too bad "do unto others..." and/or "seriously, don't be a dick" aren't good enough.00:56
DocScrutinizer05[2016-06-01 Wed 14:49:05] <djph> or rather, aren't seen as "good enough"00:56
DocScrutinizer05[2016-06-01 Wed 14:49:18] <openfbtd> djph, but they are. “There are no rules. There are no rules about moderation either, enjoy your ban.” :)00:56
DocScrutinizer05[2016-06-01 Wed 14:50:22] <openfbtd> Conduct rules hurt communities more than they help, because when you have rules, you have a whole other class of trolls who game the system while technically not breaking any.00:56
DocScrutinizer05[2016-06-01 Wed 14:50:22] <Centurion_Dan> It basically boiled down to that simple don't be a dick, and if you are a dick then we will deal appropriately with you if somebody complains about it.00:56
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OksanaTelepathy sometimes swallows some of the recent incoming (not outcoming) messages in a conversation, and tried to forget name of the sender (Conversation title becomes " (xx)" where xx is number of unread messages). Probably caused by very large total number of messages in the conversation. Unpleasant bug...01:28
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OksanaMussorgsky: take a look at ExFalso if you wish. ExFalso is not a competitor due to futuristic Python dependencies, but some of its code could give ideas on how to add more features to Mussorgsy (like Track Number, or something)01:35
* Oksana is looking at id3lib , meanwhile01:37
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Oksanadep: libid3-3.8.3c2a  What kind of dependency is that?! /EasyTag in wheezy/ There is libid3tag0 0.15.1b in Maemo 5, how do they even correspond?..01:46
OksanaOkay, this libid3-3.8.3c2a I can just fetch, it has no additional dependencies of its own01:47
OksanaIt's easier to add Wheezy repository and install EasyTag than download one or two dozens of dependencies. But at least, all of them should be doable? Hopefully01:52
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer05: beware the SJWs02:38
DocScrutinizer05~wtf sjw02:39
infobotGee...  I don't know what sjw means...02:39
DocScrutinizer05  social justice warrior?02:41
DocScrutinizer05[2016-06-01 Wed 14:55:52] <fsmithred> benevolent dictatorship is very useful and appropriate in some situations02:43
DocScrutinizer05[2016-06-01 Wed 14:56:05] <djph> (1) "Don't Panic" (2) "Don't be a dick" (3) "If you're deemed to being a dick, mods will ban you"02:43
DocScrutinizer05[2016-06-01 Wed 14:56:07] <openfbtd> Basically it's the “spirit of the law” vs “word of the law”02:43
DocScrutinizer05[2016-06-01 Wed 14:56:49] <Centurion_Dan> Not really neccesarily, but in the NZOSS case we had to shut down the CoC discussion because it was turning into the sort of flamewar that would require a CoC to clean up the casualties.02:43
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OksanaaWhat the?.. libfontconfig1 from wheezy requires sysvinit-utils, which conflicts upstart. Why would libfontconfig1 require sysvinit-utils, anyway?03:02
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DocScrutinizer05good question03:25
DocScrutinizer05aversion against systemd? ;-)03:26
OksanaaThe difference in versions is small, 2.6.0 vs 2.9.0. And they should conflict systemd then, instead of locking onto sysv03:26
DocScrutinizer05hehe, just kidding03:27
DocScrutinizer05install it, breaking dependencies, then see what unmet dependevies show up during runtime03:27
Oksanaahow do I tell apt-get to ignore dependencies? ah, I know, aptitude03:28
DocScrutinizer05prolly apt is not suited for that03:28
DocScrutinizer05dpkg -i03:29
DocScrutinizer05my uneducated guess would be it depends on started X11 or sth, which in turn brings in some sysv-init based handling scheme03:29
DocScrutinizer05maybe the explanation is as simple as "it comes with a startscript, to restore font settings during boot"03:31
Oksanaadpkg -i requires having not only libfontcondig1, but all other dependencies of it? could be an option though... easier than dpkg -i easytag03:31
Oksanaawell, how did they handle it before?03:32
DocScrutinizer05before what?03:32
DocScrutinizer05(not that I had a faintest chance to answer that question)03:33
Oksanaalibfontconfig 2.6.0 is on maemo, no problems. it's 2.9.0 from wheezy which is problematic03:33
DocScrutinizer05aah, you mean "how is it handled by genuine maemo fontconfig?"03:34
DocScrutinizer05well, I guess it has some patches so it gets started by upstart or even by X11, or dunno what they did03:35
Oksanaawhat?.. sysvinit-utils 2.86.ds1-60maemo103:35
Oksanaaaptitude thinks that downgrading solves everything mp-fremantle-community-pr [21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11+thumb0 (community-thumb, now) -> 20.2010.36-2maemo8 (fremantle)]03:36
DocScrutinizer05I pass03:37
Oksanaaof course, it involves removing way too many packages (including mediaplayer) so not acceptable03:39
Oksanaatrying  aptitude install libfontconfig103:39
OksanaaI guess that getting easytag to work may in the end require porting it to maemo03:40
Oksanaajust because of its way-too-many dependencies03:41
DocScrutinizer05well, when easytag is some GUI program...03:49
DocScrutinizer05never heard of it03:49
Oksanaait's gtk+ program, without python, and depends on id3lib which is already on maemo, for tag editing. and somebody seriously overcomplicated its dependencies list03:51
Oksanaaaka mussorgsky, only without python or mutagen03:51
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OksanaIt's painful. Libfontconfig1>fontconfig-config>ucf, and still cannot understand what's going on06:51
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fishbulbhow many poeple are actually buying a neo900 ?07:12
fishbulband is the hope that a new userbase will come along and create software for it?07:14
fishbulbor the existing stuff will be ported or what07:15
luke-jrfishbulb: AFAIK the point of the Neo900 design using an ancient SoC is to maintain N900 compatibility07:16
luke-jrbut DocScrutinizer05 would be the one to ask07:16
luke-jrpersonally, I'm going with Pyra07:16
fishbulbthere's no way I'm buying a neo900, or basically any phone, I'm just wondering what that project has as goals and expectations07:17
fishbulbthe board was old when that project started07:18
fishbulbhow much is the pyra07:19
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fishbulbthe pandora was ludicrously expensive and there are only 3d renderings of the pyra07:20
luke-jrfishbulb: no, there are prototypes of the Pyra too07:21
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Oksanafishbulb: Generally, it's hoped that old users of N900 will migrate to Neo900 (when N900 devices disintegrate with time) and new people will join the community due to lack of dev-oriented (like, with hardware keyboard) phones; privacy-conscious (and paranoid) people also do not have much choice in modern market, and may come to get Neo900 and-or Pyra in order to have control over cellular modem.07:37
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see
Oksana^ That's about porting (and upgrading?) old software to new hardware07:38
fishbulbthis is kind of worse than even a kickstarter07:39
fishbulbbasically all kickstarters fail becuase mass production isn't the same as making a few prototypes, at 900 euro or whatever, I could buy... a car? a flagship device, and root it, install debian and whatever else I wanted... or that07:40
fishbulbin saying so, I still use an n900, but LOTS of them were made by nokia, and ALL of them passed nokia's build quality standards, then were supported for a while07:41
fishbulbit would be good if more people were able to be objective about their projects.07:42
OksanaIt's objective. Neither Nokia or Microsoft are going to support N900. Community still updates software for N900. And the team ports this software to Neo900.07:48
OksanaBuild quality standard is excellent, have a look at Openmoko aka GTA04 (if I remember correctly) to know the build quality. Made in Germany, by the way.07:49
OksanaNot all flagship devices are root-able, and even those which support multi-boot, will hardly have the same thought put into them. The same ability to monitor modem transmissions, and power down the modem on user's request. And isolation of modem from other parts of the system.07:50
OksanaThere is also thought put into overcoming nokia's known issues, such as some SIM-related-chip separating from motherboard and requiring hot-air to make it work again07:52
OksanaAnd don't get me started on sensors. Pressure, temperature and humidity; stylus detector (to avoid losing stylus)...07:56
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OksanaAdd to that debugging-LEDs...
Oksanafishbulb ?08:03
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fishbulbI carried a giant slow cooker to the place I bought it from, exchanged it, bought groceries and walked back08:52
fishbulbI dunno. I have more than a few n900's08:53
fishbulbone has a broken usb port, and it's 8 years later08:53
fishbulbthe other has a failing usb port, one has a keyboard that's pretty worn, zero of those issues you said I've ever experienced, several other people didn't either who got theirs roughly the same time as mine08:55
fishbulbif I have to replace this phone, I wouldn't spend 1/20 of the neo900 price08:56
fishbulbI've never broken a usb port either, I have dropped one device in a toilet though08:58
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OksanaWell, I do not remember exactly about usb port, but I am sure something is done about it, too. Just not sure what...09:37
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fishbulbwhat does a pyra cost?11:13
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fishbulbhey my tablet doesn't support adhoc wifi connections12:08
fishbulbadhoc is the only sort the n900 can make12:08
KotCzarnyuse usb?12:08
fishbulbis there another way of connecting data to a nexus 712:08
fishbulbuse usb how12:08
fishbulbI don't think anything portable supports adhoc12:09
fishbulbcan a bluetooth tether work12:10
KotCzarnyyes, bt will work12:10
infobotbt sux0rs.  Bhutan12:10
infobotrumour has it, pan is
fishbulbwhat exactly sux?12:10
fishbulbok that's a lot of bollocks I don't want to do12:11
fishbulbnot right now at least.12:11
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r00t|homefishbulb: i used to do ppp over rfcomm over bluetooth between an android and my n900... but it's also manually set up15:46
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ceenemodest breaks itself sometime16:17
ceeneafter receiving maybe a bad formatted email, or maybe just a strangely (but standard compliant) email, it starts not knowing what an email is16:18
ceenebreaking headers, not being able to show the content, mistaking subject with sender or recipient... general parsing errors all over the place16:18
ceeneah, it's been in fact after receiving a linux-kernel mailing list email16:18
ceeneso i don't reckon it's misformated16:18
ceenejust a long email with lots of different headers or whatever16:18
ceenei'm getting a bit tired of the limitations of maemo16:19
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r00t|homei know such behaviour of modest...16:19
r00t|homealso it uses that silly binary storage format16:19
r00t|homesometimes you just have to erase the storage to make it work again16:20
r00t|homeand supposedly it's opensource, but isn't... or something... so it can't be fixed16:20
ceenei think we deserve a decent email client16:21
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r00t|homeceene: we deserve to write one for ourselves16:39
r00t|homeyou can just install sylpheed/claws...16:39
ceenethey are only slightly better than modest, plus they don't have maemo integration so they must be running at all times, there's no notification on new email, can't use exchange... so it's just a workaround as useful as VNCing into a remote system to read email16:40
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sunshavii use modest on n800. Never had have that issue17:07
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sunshaviemacs+wanderlust+mbsync and You can get visual notification. If You have no problem with cli. Also mutt+mbsync could be an option17:09
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Sicelomodest is open source. fixable.17:39
bencohdoes it use mbox?17:52
bencohor some other format (maildir, mh ....)?17:52
bencohbecause a malformated mbox could explain ceene's issues17:52
DocScrutinizer05I'd think this should be simple to answer... *if* you got a modest running17:57
DocScrutinizer05looks like maildir18:00
DocScrutinizer05but only 'looks like', I didn't verify it actually is18:00
DocScrutinizer05 /home/user/.modest/cache/mail/maildir/home/user/.modest/local_folders18:01
bencohanyway, not mbox18:01
bencohso prolly not what I was thinking about18:01
DocScrutinizer05still it could use a mbox or even database in the end18:01
DocScrutinizer05ooh yeah, and then there was this (look closely)  /home/user/.modest/cache/mail/maildir/media/mmc1/.modest/local_folders18:03
DocScrutinizer05media/mmc1 makes me wonder what happens to your mail when the uSD goes south18:04
DocScrutinizer05  //home/user/.modest/cache/mail/pop/
DocScrutinizer05summary.mmap in same dir18:06
DocScrutinizer05which looks like it's a great candidate for any sort of corruption18:07
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r00t|home<DocScrutinizer05> summary.mmap in same dir20:20
r00t|homethat was what i meant20:20
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ceenei've erased .modest/cache and made it sync20:45
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ceeneand it's synced with the same kind of corruption20:45
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Palimerlin1991: ping20:49
DocScrutinizer05ceene: modsest was known to have parse errors on mails that are a little "creative" with structure20:55
DocScrutinizer05dunno how much of that got fixed in CSSU20:56
DocScrutinizer05warfare: relevant for all email aliases aiui20:57
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ceeneis there another directory besides .modest?21:02
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ceeneor related to MfE21:05
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DocScrutinizer05ceene: see the links implied in the */cache/* pathnames. There must be one on uSD and most likely another one on MyDocs21:14
DocScrutinizer05I recall in PR1.1 times a simple mail with photo attachment "sent from my iphone" broke modest fubar21:15
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ceenein cache dir, mails are stored in maildir format, i.e., each mail on its own file21:25
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ceenehowever, one message corrupts visualization for all21:25
ceeneand it gets that way forever21:25
ceeneeven if all messages are deleted, new ones will appear corrupted21:26
ceenedoesn't make any sense21:26
PaliSPF is just one big shit and only retarded people can use it21:27
Paliand DMARC is another nonsense created by disabled people21:28
Palithose disabled people behind workig group have disabled their brains21:29
DocScrutinizer05<GMX service dude on a conf of big mailhoster admins quite a while ago> „Ja, SPF geht nicht, wir machen es aber trotzdem!“21:33
DocScrutinizer05which basically translates into "we pursue other sneaky purposes than spam filtering with SPF"21:35
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sixwheeledbeastOk so for future reference when I search these logs about mafw-lastfm eating CPU issue. Seems I have to log out on ALL devices to clear the cache. As well as rm ~/.osso/mafw-lastfm* :rolleyes:22:18
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warfareDocScrutinizer05: has a valid SPF record.22:32
DocScrutinizer05hmm yeah, but when somebody sends a mail to form
DocScrutinizer05and it gets forwarded to any gmx or account by maemo.org22:37
DocScrutinizer05warfare: ^^^22:38
warfareDocScrutinizer05: Yes, then it's broken. And there is nothing we can do about it.22:38
DocScrutinizer05just maybe check the aliases for gmx/webde forwards22:39
DocScrutinizer05they are prone to fail sooner rather than later22:39
DocScrutinizer05possibly inform the recipients aka owners of those gmx/web accounts22:40
warfareI'll check that.22:42
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