IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2016-06-03

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bencohwarfare: actually there *is* something you can do about ... change the way you forward mails00:48
bencohrewrite the smtp envelop (MAIL FROM) instead of passing it as-is00:49
bencoh(note that I'm talking about the MAIL FROM, not the From:)00:49
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DocScrutinizer05this however requires new infra, the currently used tools probably are not designed to do that02:01
DocScrutinizer05and particularly the return path is something to think about when doing this02:02
DocScrutinizer05I'm pretty much a layman about that whole SMTP et al stuff, but the guy writing seems to be an expert and he thinks SPF is "broken by design and BS". Even more notheworthy the GMX guy himself says "Yes, **SPF doesn't work** but nevertheless we'll do it". The alternatives explained in that article seem sound to me, particularly DKIM02:09
bencohDKIM isn't any better ...02:28
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bencohit notoriously breaks other parts of the mail ecosystem02:28
bencohnot exactly mailing-lists-friendly for instance...02:28
bencohiirc there is a kindof workaround for that but ....02:29
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fishbulbhey, how do I connect bluetooth data to a nexus 7 tablet?04:03
fishbulbusing an n90004:03
fishbulbthe PAN method is for nokia to nokia04:03
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DocScrutinizer05nah, PAN is for $device to $device, with the instructions for Nokia being one of those devices04:18
infobotpan is probably
DocScrutinizer05you prolly want to use N900 in DUN mode as modem though04:20
DocScrutinizer05>>if the N900 has net access itself, another Bluetooth-equipped device (such as a PC or laptop) may use it as a modem. In this case it plays the role of the mobile phone in the previous scenarios, and act as a Bluetooth DUN server<<04:22
sunshaviimo; PAN is betterthan DUN, PAN works from maemo to droid04:25
DocScrutinizer05PAN is not really supported on N900 afaik, with N900 as server04:25
sunshaviit works for me04:26
DocScrutinizer05hmm, maybe I'm mistaken: >>If you have Nokia N900 you may instead use it as PAN server to allow an other device such as a Nokia N8x0 to utilize Bluetooth PAN.<<04:26
sunshavieven i use n900 as panu, but with merlin bluez-utils04:26
sunshaviand the cssu kernel04:27
sunshavipanu does not work on pr 1.304:27
sunshaviit is a kernel issue04:28
DocScrutinizer05yes, PAN needs iptables which isn't available on stock kernel. That's why I suggest DUN04:28
DocScrutinizer05DUN should work pretty much OOTB04:29
DocScrutinizer05or rather, just needs a package installed04:29
sunshavinice, 4 me pan is the way to go04:30
DocScrutinizer05for the nexus 7 prolly is the page to go to04:31
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sunshavias n800 have PAN also. I have never tried DUN. n900 is better than n800 that's my logic04:33
DocScrutinizer05the difference is: PAN creates a true router on N900 and shares the GPRS internet. DUN simply exposes a modem via a sort of virtual serial connection and the N900 itself is completely out of the scope04:33
sunshavin800 does not have GPRS :)04:34
DocScrutinizer05obviously a complete router is way more complex than a simple export of a virtual TTY04:34
sunshavibut it let's You share ur wifi04:34
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sunshavior better said the n800 wifi connection04:34
DocScrutinizer05share wifi via BT, what weird usecase it *that*?04:34
sunshavithat's what for those devices have been made04:35
sunshavieven droid's let's do that easy04:36
DocScrutinizer05so? I still don't see what anybody would need that for04:36
DocScrutinizer05any BT device that needs internet also has WLAN04:37
sunshaviagain battery life my friend. that's rule # one. increase battery life04:37
DocScrutinizer05I'd need to see a decent evaluation of any supposed battery savings by using BT PAN instead WLAN04:39
DocScrutinizer05don't by that blindly04:39
sunshavithen. It is not a weird use case. It saves a lot tested here on field camp04:39
sunshaviBT doubles battery life compared with wifi04:39
sunshavitest it whenever u need. I have done It04:40
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I'm not going to even test that04:40
DocScrutinizer05I have heard no arguments that make think there'sd a big diffetrence between active WLAN and active BT regarding battery consumption04:41
DocScrutinizer05it's known that an unpaired WLAN scanning for APs needs a lot of power04:42
DocScrutinizer05but a paired and connected WLAN is rather humble04:42
OksanaWell, a problem starts when WiFi likes to disconnect randomly, and then search for networks again to re-connect04:44
sunshaviok. I have tested it here listening internet streams04:44
DocScrutinizer05as a ballpark figure: I can leave my N900 for maybe a week in standby with established ssh session via WLAN, from one battery04:44
OksanaNice :-D04:44
DocScrutinizer05prolly longer04:45
sunshavitry it that way04:45
DocScrutinizer05yes, as stated above WLAN searching for APs is a power hog04:46
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DocScrutinizer05on both N900 and N8x004:47
DocScrutinizer05so the BT PAN is just a very sophisticated powerpack to provide the WLAN energy from a auxilary battery04:48
sunshaviDocScrutinizer05: mmmm?04:48
DocScrutinizer05you prolly could get longer active time per same weight when you use such a powerbank for your primary device and use WLAN instead of BT PANM and a WLAN server04:49
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DocScrutinizer05you save all the energy for BT and the second system with CPU and RAM and all04:50
sunshaviDocScrutinizer05: I am not understanding your statement. BT_PAN is equivalent to WLAN. But client devices have wifi-card turned off04:50
DocScrutinizer05use a powerbank instead that BT<->WLAN extender04:51
sunshaviwifi, has more range (it needs more power). Just simple math04:51
DocScrutinizer05same weight -> longer standby04:51
DocScrutinizer05meh, sorry I fail to explain my rationale04:52
DocScrutinizer05I just can say that simple math doesn't apply to electronics04:53
sunshavithen facts, do not try an idle conn but an active then04:54
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I also fail to read you04:54
sunshaviur probably test case is an idle ssh connection. try an active one play a multimedia file on the device04:55
DocScrutinizer05I won't try anything since I know the max TX of WLAN is 100mW which means that it could theoretically run for 40h continuous(!) TX from one battery, in N90004:56
sunshavifrom the web04:56
DocScrutinizer05THAT is simple math in electronics04:56
sunshaviis not just that processor and dsp are consuming energy too04:57
DocScrutinizer05yes, exactly, they do, in your BT<->WLAN device04:58
sunshaviadd to that the speaker04:58
DocScrutinizer05for nothing04:58
sunshaviBT consumes less power check it out on the specs04:58
DocScrutinizer05attach the battery of BT<->WLAN device directly to your primary device instead and profit04:58
sunshaviwlan is turned off on client devices04:59
DocScrutinizer05dude, I'm an EE, don't tell me to check anything in the specs04:59
fishbulbI use powerkernel anyway04:59
* DocScrutinizer05 headdesks04:59
fishbulbyou mean you've always been an engineer or you had to learn a lot for this neo900 project04:59
DocScrutinizer05when you think anybody could start such a project to *learn* how to do EE, then good luck05:00
fishbulband no, wifi hoses the battery, 40h is an absurd overestimation05:00
fishbulbI did mech and electronic engineering, I think you're going to lose your mind when the percentage of dead boards come in05:01
DocScrutinizer05I think you're posing05:02
Oksanafishbulb: why do you think I mentioned Openmoko aka GTA04? Neo900 motherboard is both based on GTA04... and designed by same person05:02
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko. Usually known as DocScrutinizer. Initiator of http://neo900.org05:02
DocScrutinizer05I built computers before you were born05:03
* Oksana nods...05:03
fishbulbI only really care about your opinion on the n90005:03
DocScrutinizer05and I don't care about this conversation any longer05:03
sunshaviDocScrutinizer05: I do not want to start an arguments. Those are just tested facts here05:04
fishbulbexcept that last one05:04
DocScrutinizer05sunshavi: you're on a different wavelength and didn'T get what I said, at all05:04
fishbulbmaybe doc meant that if you just run the wifi and zero other things on the n900 you can potentially get 40h05:05
Oksanafishbulb: Different N900s behave differently. Be it software (flash the device?) or water-damage (somebody refused to repair microusb port and wrote water damage as reason), my n900 eats batteries like candy, while doc's is very-well-maintained05:05
fishbulblike no internet connection, barely any other processes, just a wifi connection to the phone doing nothing, 40h? still no05:05
OksanaPotentially, yes. He mentions WiFi and ssh, in stand-by (aka blanked screen) mode. Not video-ing05:06
DocScrutinizer05a plain N900 with crap like skype and email checks and other instant messaging nuked can easily stay 2 days with active connected WLAN, on one battery05:06
OksanaNice :-D05:07
fishbulboh cool, I can wlan into the phone, and....05:07
fishbulbwait I still need data05:07
OksanaEither all my batteries are nuked, or my N900 is not plain... Does your plain N900 include 3G?05:07
DocScrutinizer05actually I do that every day, when I come home and forget to connect mine to charger, and next morning I notice "ooh, forgot the running XCHAT anfd now it ran since 18h via WLAN and battery down to 60%"05:07
fishbulbwhy the fuck would you even suggest that05:08
fishbulboh yes excluding 3g, you can use it as a wifi hotspot for AGES05:08
DocScrutinizer05Oksana: yes05:08
fishbulbif you don't want internet, you can use the wifi hotspot for hours and hours05:08
fishbulbhow about I turn both devices off, I can use them for the next 3 years before the batteries die05:09
DocScrutinizer05fishbulb: please stop playing ignorant, I said "running xchat"05:09
OksanaAlso, might be tracker with lots of files to be tracked... Or just wishful thinking, trying to blame all problems on the tracker05:09
sunshaviOksana: what is tracker?05:10
DocScrutinizer05are you so buusy with trolling that you forget to understand what you read, or don't you read at all?05:10
OksanaThe thing which puts list of images into Photos-Gallery, list of Music and Videos into Media Player05:10
fishbulbthis might be productive if any of you were tethered to reality05:10
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OksanaSorry, multi-conversation can be difficult to keep up with05:11
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sunshaviwhat is happening with those "ChanServ" messages?05:12
DocScrutinizer05nothing important05:12
sunshaviOksana: thanks. I do not use it :p05:13
sunshaviall my interactions wiht media player are trought dbus. I cant wait 4 media player to take a lot of time 4 starting05:14
sunshaviprobably the process eating starting time is tracker05:15
DocScrutinizer05for further enlightenment:05:16
infobotpower is, like,
DocScrutinizer05guess who did that?05:16
sunshaviDocScrutinizer05: bt comsuption is not there :p05:18
DocScrutinizer05so what?05:18
DocScrutinizer05and actually it is, just not for active PAN usage05:19
DocScrutinizer05however WLAN usage is there05:19
sunshaviwait: it is05:20
DocScrutinizer05even a bq27200 log for a usecase with xchat (internet data traffic via WLAN)05:20
DocScrutinizer05which clearly shows WLAN is not your primary problem and saving WLAN energy thus won't solve it05:21
OksanaAlso: Disclaimer: do not have autodisconnect installed05:22
DocScrutinizer05but my major point was you get better results when rather you plug the battery of the second device to your primary device and use the primary WLAN and no BT at all05:22
sunshavi"WLAN transmit 802.11b - 150 mA" and "BT enabled, no headset connected +2 mA with ~1/5 time spikes to +9 mA"05:22
sunshavithose r ur own numbers05:23
DocScrutinizer05auto-disconnect WAAAAAH!05:23
DocScrutinizer05sunshavi: yes, those are my numbers and I understand them, you obviously don't. That's why I won't discuss this any longer05:24
sunshaviDocScrutinizer05: ok05:25
DocScrutinizer05that and the fact that you don't even try to understand what I said05:25
sunshaviagain: tested here , not just my words. How I have gotten those  results?05:26
DocScrutinizer05Oksana: ((Disclaimer: do not have autodisconnect installed))  you damn better don't05:26
DocScrutinizer05that and the fact that you don't even try to understand what I said05:27
DocScrutinizer05^^^ repeated on purpose05:27
sunshavilol. Ok tables then05:27
DocScrutinizer05but my major point was you get better results when rather you plug the battery of the second device to your primary device and use the primary WLAN and no BT at all (also repeated on purpose)05:28
sunshaviok i am going to read and try to understand then05:29
DocScrutinizer05for the rest I suggest the backscroll05:29
sunshaviDocScrutinizer05: how can I plug a second battery to a device?05:30
sunshaviDocScrutinizer05: Do I need to take off the battery from the second device?05:31
DocScrutinizer05I mentioned a powerbank, see backscroll05:31
DocScrutinizer05a powerbank same weight as your N810(?) will give you 5 times the operation time with your primary device05:32
sunshaviDocScrutinizer05: N800 here :)05:33
DocScrutinizer05since no N800 CPU and RAM and BT and whatnot needs to get operated basically for nothing05:33
DocScrutinizer05plus you save the BT energy on your primary device05:34
DocScrutinizer05that's a lot of energy saving, and you got a lot more energy in a powerbank than in a N800 too05:34
DocScrutinizer05on same size of powerbank and N80005:35
sunshaviDocScrutinizer05: if i need a portable wifi all my colleages (up until 8) can get it from my PAN05:36
DocScrutinizer05N900+N800 = X hours. N900 + powerbank = X * 10 hours05:36
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sunshaviDocScrutinizer05: and All of my colleages thanks me their devices last longer cos of bluetooth savings05:37
DocScrutinizer05plus all your colleagues could get WLAN from your N900 then05:37
DocScrutinizer05via BT05:38
DocScrutinizer05ten times longer than with N900 and N80005:38
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DocScrutinizer05while you still have to cary only 2 objects: powerbank and N900, and the weight would be same (if you find the right powerbank with same weight as the N800)05:40
sunshaviI  do not use both devices at the same time, just one of those05:40
DocScrutinizer05then wth were you talking about with your energy saving by BT PAN?05:40
sunshaviI have two batteries for my n90005:40
DocScrutinizer05sorry, this is a timesink 'discussion'05:41
sunshavicos besides having a wifi conn at home we have a BT PAN too05:41
sunshavithanks for the suggestion about the power bank. All of this started cos of DUN, vs PAN scenary05:42
sunshaviI was in favor of PAN. You were on favor of DUN05:42
sunshavibtw guys. whon did that question. I am going to go back for it. But probably one of you can beat me with that05:44
OksanaOkay, how is autodisconnect in Extras still?.. Not in testing or devel? Curious... Did somebody eventually look into flaw(s) in its logic?.. The thread is old, so most likely people do not use it much
DocScrutinizer05autoconnect is fubar05:45
DocScrutinizer05Oksana: I think the "flaws in its logic" are undocumented behavior of ICD2 etc05:49
DocScrutinizer05though I also think the whole concept of auto-disconnect is broken by design05:50
DocScrutinizer05why would you disconnect from internet to start with?05:51
DocScrutinizer05the modem for example has no noticeable increase in energy consumption when it's actually connected to the APN05:52
DocScrutinizer05the energy gets consumed for data transfer, which is when auto-disconnect is supposed to establish a new connection anyway05:53
DocScrutinizer05it might help in a situation where you suffer massive unsolicited inbound data traffic which also cuts through your battery, but that's a problem way better solved on a different level05:54
DocScrutinizer05and your dataplan isn't balanced by the minutes you are connected anyway05:56
DocScrutinizer05auto-disconnect is a concept from dial-up connections05:56
DocScrutinizer05when you connected your acoustic coupler to the receiver of your landline phone, or later had a hayes modem that actually did call a number to connect to the internet for like 20ct per minute05:57
OksanaHmm, is there another way (besides auto-disconnect) to auto-switch to 2G when possible, and 3G when 2G is not available? Because Dual goes to 3G when possible, 2G when 3G is not available.05:58
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if the modem could even do that05:59
DocScrutinizer05possibly a limitation in the network *protocols*05:59
OksanaAnd I agree that partially torn flex ribbon (which disables light-sensor and front-cam) is more of a concern than WiFi connection (especially when WiFi settings are power-saving)05:59
DocScrutinizer053G network possibly informs the modem of 2G alternatives, but 2G for sure doesn't inform about 3G alternatives06:00
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DocScrutinizer05you should get a new flex06:01
OksanaWhen 2G is not available, assume that 3G is available and try to switch to 3G? And yes, there are probably reasonable protocol limitations which make Dual prefer to use 3G when possible06:01
OksanaFlex is easy, destroyed screw hats are being difficult06:02
DocScrutinizer05anyway the 2G/3G selector app works fine, though only manually. You prolly easily could augment it06:03
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OksanaAnd local makerspace is afraid to bear responsibility in case of attempt to drill them out, so they tell me to try a professional phone repairer. Which is troublesome. Phone repairer would be likely to say "leave device with me for days, I will do everything, you will pay" and then say "take your device back, water-damage-or-something, I am not repairing that"06:04
DocScrutinizer05no idea how to make it switch 3G->2G though, except for periodic trying06:04
DocScrutinizer05get a straw that exactly fits into the holes, then insert and cut to protect the walls, and glue a rod to the screw head with really strong elastic glue, like Pattex 100% repair gel06:07
DocScrutinizer05worst case you still can drill06:11
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Vajbi had pattex contact adhesive once and it was worst i've had :/07:29
Vajbbtw is there polar flow app clone for maemo? I did quick googling and couldn't find much.07:32
Vajbthere is android app which is showing some info from device via bluetooth so i thought it could have some implementations on maemo07:33
DocScrutinizer05pattex contact is a completely different gue07:33
VajbDocScrutinizer05: yes i know. Just stated my worthless opinion of trade mark overall :)07:34
DocScrutinizer05contact glue is per se only useful for joints with large smooth flat areas on both objects07:35
DocScrutinizer05and it works only when you *really* apply force to connect the two objects07:35
DocScrutinizer05this critter I linked above is more like cyanoacrylate07:36
DocScrutinizer05just slower and more elastic07:36
DocScrutinizer05really strong stuff07:37
DocScrutinizer05oh, I need to create a test-"H" object from that stuff, to check the force it needs to break the substance itself07:39
DocScrutinizer05test-I (with serifes)07:40
Vajbi tried it to glue some rubber to plywood, but it peeled of quite fast. Best result i had with 2-component glue.07:47
DocScrutinizer05rubber is a bitch to glue07:47
Vajbbet it had something to do with other thing being elastic and other not07:47
Vajboh well back to wr0k...07:48
DocScrutinizer05well, to start with, rubber is flexible and has a rather flush surface with little microstructure for clue to find a grip in it07:49
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: well, to start with, rubber is flexible and has a rather flush surface with little microstructure for glue to find a grip in it07:49
KotCzarnyoksana: some recomment to put rubberband on the screw, then press screwdriver really hard08:02
KotCzarnyalso, if those screws are in the display part, you can just get n900 with broken usb/modem cheap and replace the whole thing08:03
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Vajbalso gentle tip of a hammer might help. I mean to put screwdriver on screw and tap the screw driver with hammer.08:57
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DocScrutinizer05not on a 1.2mm screw09:32
DocScrutinizer05if that large at all09:33
DocScrutinizer05actually 1.4x409:34
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: bluetooth DUN still gives some form of control to the N900 though, or at least some form of monitoring09:56
keriothe data counter goes up09:56
OksanaAny idea why WiFi sometimes goes Off-then-back-On(Stock) ?10:03
DocScrutinizer05kerio: excellent spotting10:11
DocScrutinizer05Oksana: seems it has its resets aka "kernel oopses" just like the PowerVR and DSP10:12
DocScrutinizer05check syslog10:13
DocScrutinizer05it should have some hints about what's going on10:13
DocScrutinizer05LOL just found this as last entry (except MARK) in syslog  >>Jun  3 02:34:14 IroN900 kernel: [107637.393218] HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered<<10:15
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infoboti guess syslog is the unix facility for logging the messages that programs produce.10:21
* Oksana wonders where syslog is...10:23
DocScrutinizer05it's in /var/log/syslog, when you installed the *syslog-bla packages10:24
DocScrutinizer05klogd - Kernel Logging Daemon10:25
DocScrutinizer05sysklogd - System Logging Daemon10:25
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DocScrutinizer05btw awesome stuff:
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Siceloi have  had that annoying sgx reset11:44
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Siceloanyone on this channel attending DebConf16 in Cape Town, South Africa?11:56
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ceenei think yappari is dead18:49
ceenei see that yowsup users are experiencing the same thing as i am18:49
ceeneautomatic ban just because18:49
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ceenethey must be thoroughly checking clients and are banning all non official ones18:50
ceenethey can do it in thousands of ways18:50
ceenethe most subtle thing could be an indicator of a rogue client18:51
Siceloah, that sucks18:57
ceeneyep :(18:57
Sicelois there any alternative implementation that still works?18:57
ceenei just don't know what else to do18:57
ceeneyowsup is the most updated one18:58
ceeneat least that i know of18:58
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ceenei'm downloading this18:59
ceenemaybe it can run whatsapp19:00
ceeneunder a virtual machine19:00
ceenenot that it's a great solution for anyone19:00
Siceloand have we heard anything from them (yowsup), e.g. future plans?19:00
ceenenope, i even wrote its author to ask for help19:00
ceenefirst time he answered me but couldn't help19:00
ceenesecond time he didn't even answer19:00
Siceloit may not run there ... whatsapp knows that the VM has no SIM .. or maybe it will work19:01
ceenelet me check his development branch19:01
ceeneyowsup has commits from 12 days ago19:01
Siceloah ... so there's still a bit of life?19:02
ceeneso it seems19:02
ceenebut still they have several issues reported of bans, etc19:02
ceene Why I create a group, the number was blocked19:03
ceene7 days ago19:03
ceenethat's been happening on yappari for quite a lot19:03
ceene 3 number blocked after upgrading latest version v2.5.019:03
ceene9 days ago, after latest commit19:03
ceenei win, i've got 5 numbers blocked now, i believe19:03
ceene Cannot send/receive message from a few phone numbers #161519:04
ceenethat one looks like cipher problems19:04
ceenefrom 9 days ago19:04
ceeneat least i think he knows what he's doing unlike me, but this is all looking quite bad19:05
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ceenei'll wait till sunday19:06
Siceloquite unfortunate really. yappari has worked great19:06
ceenebut i think i'll be announcing the end of yappari then :(19:07
ceenei still got in mind the telegram thing19:07
ceenei know some people will use it19:07
ceenebut lots of people will be abandoning their n90019:07
ceenethey probably already have, to be honest19:07
ceeneit's been how long since yappari stopped working?19:07
ceeneit doesn't seem fair to keep people hoping for something that isn't going to happen19:08
Sicelomy last and final ban was somewhere in april19:09
ceene DO NOT USE YAPPARI (2016/04/15)19:09
ceene6 weeks19:09
ceenein a couple weeks i'd be getting my numbers unbanned19:10
ceenebut for what? they only last a couple of days19:10
Sicelotrue. i'm now watching yowsup19:11
Siceloby the way, yowsup is designed for PC? or?19:11
ceenewell, actually it's not a full fledged application19:12
ceeneit's a very complete implementation19:12
ceenebut interface is pretty arcane19:12
ceeneonly console19:12
ceeneand probably difficult to use19:12
ceeneit's probably more useful for automated things, instead of personal use19:13
Sicelowould it (console) work as is on N900? i see it depends on python 2.719:13
Sicelo2.6+ rather19:13
ceeneyes, i think it can run19:13
Sicelookay. asking so i could test some day too19:14
ceenesure, give it a try19:14
ceenethere's also chat-api
ceeneit's written on php19:15
ceenedon't think that'll run easily on maemo19:15
ceenealso, it's php19:15
ceenelatest real commit was on march19:15
ceenehe told me he has latest protocol implemented19:16
ceenebut to be honest, i think it's not true19:16
Sicelolooks quiet that one, yes19:16
ceenehe's from my city, i hoped he would be nicer19:16
ceenebut didn't care a fucking lot about helping me a little19:17
ceenemaybe i'm just frustrated, but i hate him :D19:17
Siceloi'll maybe test that yowsup on my pc then. let me hope that one somehow gets sorted19:18
Siceloi'm using pidgin's telegram plugin on the N900 .. managed to get one of my sister's on it, haha19:19
ceeneoh, the other will have to fall for it too!19:19
ceenei'll try and see how much hard is it to use telegram-qt on yappari19:20
ceenei see it as doable19:20
Siceloi wrote them a nice long email .. i'm sure she'll join shortly enough19:20
ceenei'll have to change its name so people don't get confused19:20
Sicelotrue that19:21
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ceenei'm also a little tired of all the incompatibilities of this thingy19:24
ceenemodest is a piece of shit19:24
ceenei may end up buying a phone like the one normal people use19:25
ceenean android to do normal people things and the n900 to type insanely on a console and feel like a hacker19:25
Siceloyou have large inbox?19:26
ceenebut some messages break it19:27
Siceloi've not had any issues with modest myself .. of course wfm is never a useful solution19:27
ceenei received a linux-kernel mailing list and it broke everything19:27
ceeneit's completely absurd, because it stores mails as a Maildir, so each message gets its own file19:28
Siceloand ML usually send plain-text .. that should be even easier to handle, i'd assume19:28
ceenebut it corrupts something and mixes headers with content, content with headers, etc19:28
ceeneyes, that's the funny thing19:28
ceeneit's not even a gmail or iphone or modern thingy19:28
ceeneit's just majordomo mailing list19:28
Siceloand i'm sure FMG/Pali receive lots of ML emails .. i don't think they've had that issue either19:29
Siceloyou may want to try remove and re-add the mailbox?19:29
ceeneyes, that solves it19:29
ceenebut it isn't something i'm willing to do so often...19:29
Sicelothen it breaks again after 'fix'?19:30
ceenewhenever it finds a message it doesn't like, it breaks again19:30
Siceloare you at least able to find out the offending message? you could look at it properly in a more detailed client such as mutt19:31
ceeneyes, i'm quite sure it's mailing lists emails19:31
ceenebut still, i don't want to do that19:32
ceenei just want to read emails19:32
ceenei'm passing through a "i just want to be a user, not a dev!" phase19:32
Siceloi love N900 .. but i know for sure it won't last forever :)19:33
ceenei even bought a second one19:33
ceenejust because they are cool as hell19:33
ceeneand i love that they are little linux machines with full fledged keyboards19:33
ceenebut they don't work as an everyday phone anymore :/19:34
Sicelofor the time being im fine with it, and wish to use it as long as possible, but my 2nd one already has bad flex, not reading sd cards, and green notification LED is dead19:34
Sicelowho knows what next19:34
Siceloas much as Jolla is having tough times, i probably may find myself a Jolla user, or even Tizen if Samsung makes a proper decision about that19:35
Siceloif these two don't work out .. Android19:35
ceenethe jolla would have been great19:35
ceenewith its keyboard and all19:35
ceeneand its android compatibility allows it to use it with current apps19:36
ceenei think shaslik is also dead19:38
ceeneno commits since march, 2nd19:38
Siceloi wanted to test that too19:40
ceenei tried a couple weeks ago without luck19:40
ceenei don't know if i'll be able to live without a keyboard19:51
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DocScrutinizer05whatsapp the Inc is as nasty and mendacious as it gets, no?21:31
DocScrutinizer05this is an uphill battle you can't win21:31
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DocScrutinizer05I could come up with half a dozen (better) solutions to absolutely any problem they might face with "rogue clients", but they decide to block users since it meets their business plan21:33
DocScrutinizer05TNH the technical skills level in whatsapp never been better than a modest on par at best, given they simply copied XMPP or IRC basically21:36
DocScrutinizer05all their great words they write on their website sound like lies21:37
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