IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2016-05-04

*** trumee has quit IRC00:07
*** andril has quit IRC00:11
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo00:13
*** lxp has quit IRC00:15
*** trumee has joined #maemo00:18
*** trumee has quit IRC00:22
*** vakkov has quit IRC00:24
*** Kilroo has joined #maemo00:27
*** sq-one has quit IRC00:27
*** Cor-Ai has quit IRC00:33
*** Cor-Ai has joined #maemo00:35
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo00:38
*** shamus has quit IRC00:39
*** shamus has joined #maemo00:39
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC00:41
*** yasnothil has joined #maemo00:43
*** kerio has quit IRC01:06
*** kerio has joined #maemo01:06
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC01:06
*** kraft has quit IRC01:09
*** kraft has joined #maemo01:12
*** trumee has joined #maemo01:23
*** lobito has quit IRC01:30
*** Valle__ has quit IRC01:39
*** vakkov has joined #maemo01:47
*** lobito has joined #maemo01:47
*** Valle__ has joined #maemo01:55
*** Valle__ has quit IRC02:04
*** bredebid has quit IRC02:18
*** zap has quit IRC02:34
*** robink_ is now known as robink02:44
*** githogori has quit IRC03:14
*** florian has quit IRC03:24
*** ult has quit IRC03:30
*** lxp1 has quit IRC03:30
*** lxp has joined #maemo03:40
*** githogori has joined #maemo03:57
*** githogori has quit IRC04:02
*** githogori has joined #maemo04:04
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo04:06
*** Humpelstilzchen has joined #maemo04:08
*** eMHa has quit IRC04:09
*** Defiant has quit IRC04:11
*** githogori has quit IRC04:16
*** githogori has joined #maemo04:18
*** githogori has quit IRC04:27
*** vakkov has quit IRC04:32
*** at1as has joined #maemo04:35
*** githogori has joined #maemo04:36
*** vakkov has joined #maemo04:40
*** Venusaur has quit IRC05:00
*** sunshavi has joined #maemo05:04
*** vakkov has quit IRC05:13
*** Smily has joined #maemo05:14
*** Venusaur has joined #maemo05:23
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo06:02
*** lxp has quit IRC06:03
*** at1as has quit IRC06:10
*** sunshavi has quit IRC06:14
*** Natch has quit IRC06:24
*** Natch has joined #maemo06:27
*** Natch has quit IRC06:35
*** Natch has joined #maemo06:39
*** povbot has joined #maemo06:46
*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC06:59
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo06:59
*** vahe has joined #maemo07:16
*** Vajb_ has quit IRC07:18
*** arossdotme has quit IRC07:18
*** arossdotme has joined #maemo07:21
*** Vajb has joined #maemo07:25
*** vahe has quit IRC07:54
*** vahe has joined #maemo07:54
*** Vajb has quit IRC08:27
*** zap has joined #maemo08:35
*** zap has quit IRC08:36
*** N-Mi has quit IRC08:40
*** krnlyng has quit IRC08:48
*** ecloud_ has quit IRC08:55
*** Cor-Ai has quit IRC08:56
*** Cor-Ai has joined #maemo08:56
*** geaaru has joined #maemo08:57
*** arcean has joined #maemo09:03
*** Avasz has quit IRC09:10
*** zap has joined #maemo09:15
*** tanty_off is now known as tanty09:47
OksanaCurious thing:;a=blob_plain;f=www/index.html;hb=HEAD09:54
KotCzarnydoesnt show as such in links10:00
KotCzarnybut in firefox it goes to firefox repositories10:01
KotCzarnymight be related to bad certificate on (bad domain)10:03
OksanaWrong site, yes. How to correct that?10:04
KotCzarnyupdate cert?10:04
* Oksana poked techstaff on #maemo-meeting , like, 20min ago; should wait 24h at least for them to reply10:06
OksanaDoes Maemo 5 use somehow accelerometer's ability to detect clicks and double-clicks? For interaction with user when screen is blank, for whatever reason?10:08
freemangordonI doubt10:11
*** noch has joined #maemo10:11
*** noch is now known as vishap10:11
OksanaWhen screen is blank, does accelerometer sleep (and ignore all the rotations and clicks), or does it (in spirit with multi-tasking) keep checking the ongoing happenings (and drain battery)?10:13
freemangordonIIRC by default it sleeps10:13
freemangordonbut you'd better check mce10:13
Oksana10000g high shock survivability of accelerometer is impressive by the way, but I think that other parts would break before 10g was reached10:14
DocScrutinizer05(sleep) depends on what MCE or any other app is doing with accel10:17
DocScrutinizer05actually the accel itself never sleeps afaik10:17
DocScrutinizer05the question is if IRQs are enabled and trigger10:18
DocScrutinizer05the accel like most other peripherals is event-driven (by IRQs it sends to CPU)10:19
DocScrutinizer05only braindead upstream lis302 kernel driver does polling by default - unless that changed since I last checked10:20
OksanaOokay... Mce was reverse-engineered recently, correct?.. Would be nice to have a look at it... What is IRQ?.. Hypothetically, accelerometer's click and double-click functionality could be tuned, to change "expected amplitude and timing of the stimuli"...10:20
DocScrutinizer05yes / / IRQ = a signal on a single line sent from the IRQ generating device to a CPU that awakens from sleep when detecting the signal / yes10:22
*** florian has joined #maemo10:22
OksanaInterrupt request, got it...10:23
DocScrutinizer05IRQs (hw interrupts) are the most important 'tool' for designing embedded10:23
DocScrutinizer05unlike a PC, an embedded (battery operated) platform must run event-driven exclusively10:24
DocScrutinizer05you can't afford to keep everything running busy in idle loops all the time10:24
Oksana>> only braindead upstream lis302 kernel driver does polling by default << What does it mean? Is it not event-driven?10:25
DocScrutinizer05the lis302 has 2 IRQ lines of which only one is actually used in maemo software. And it has sophisticated filters to define which physical acceleration event shall assert the IRQ-line10:26
DocScrutinizer05(upstream) last time I checked, the driver polled the lis302 a 50 times per second10:26
DocScrutinizer05you'd do that for an USB-attached joystick maybe10:27
DocScrutinizer05*never* for embedded10:27
*** peetah has quit IRC10:27
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: we''l fix that when it comes to it10:29
OksanaIs maemo driver different from upstream /aka not polling/ , or different?  And it's said to be "accelerometer sensor found in several HP laptops" so they might be considering it not-embedded
DocScrutinizer05es, driver is different10:29
freemangordondoesn't matter10:29
freemangordonOksana: ^^^10:29
freemangordonyou should never poll if you have IRQ line to use10:29
DocScrutinizer05the maemo driver is not perfect, it does some hardcoded filter setting which rather should get exposed to /sys/ to do it as you like, but generally the maemo driver is much cleaner and smarter than what I last seen upstream10:31
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: yes, but lets first have working what is not, then we'll tweak whatever is needed10:32
* freemangordon wonders why nobody wants to join kernel development :(10:33
DocScrutinizer05I'd prolly even want to fix the lis302 driver myself, if I find the time10:33
KotCzarnyfmg: time and skills mostly10:33
freemangordonesp in the light of the recent achievements10:33
freemangordonKotCzarny: skills?10:33
freemangordonyou need C coding skills, thats it10:34
KotCzarnyyeah, also new knowledge, different from app coding10:34
freemangordonit is not10:34
KotCzarnyalso, one has to know what needs to be coded10:34
KotCzarnyie. all that kernel internal infra10:34
freemangordonunless your coding style is of a .net developer :)10:34
freemangordonno, really it is not that hard, actually in most of the parts it is well thought and documented10:35
KotCzarnythen there is time10:36
freemangordonI know10:36
KotCzarnymost people with free time are in schools, and they are droid/apple only10:36
KotCzarnyrarely you can find someone with rich wife and n900 ;)10:36
freemangordonKotCzarny: well, I think it is a some kind of a barrier, at least for the guys on the channel10:38
OksanaWhere is source code of maemo's lis302dl driver, then? I do not even know the package, I see the files in /sys/module/lis302dl/ , but dpkg does not recognise the package?10:38
KotCzarnyfor me to code it requires few days of total uninterrupted silence, and it collides with personal life :/10:39
freemangordon"OMG, see pali and fmg, they are so good, who am I to think I can be as good as them", or somesuch. Might be wrong OFC10:39
freemangordonOksana: it is part of the kernel10:39
KotCzarnyfmg: try preparing some trivial coding case for the brave10:39
freemangordonKotCzarny: define "trivial code case"?10:40
Oksanakerrnel... Not a pleasant experience, user-side. "Custom kernel settings not loaded", or something, at some of start-ups10:40
KotCzarnysomething that needs to be done, but only requires few tens/hundreds lines of code10:40
*** peetah has joined #maemo10:40
OksanaYes, some small and 'simple' bugs and-or feature requests?10:41
freemangordonKotCzarny: lis302dl driver might be a good example. You have good code in stock kernel and not-so-good in upstream. It needs porting of the good parts from stock to upstream10:41
OksanaWhat's the official source-code of stock and upstream? /me likes github, simply because of having an account on it already, but would accept just about any web-gui, as long as it does not require installation of git on-computer/10:43
freemangordonis upstream10:43
*** vahe has quit IRC10:43
KotCzarny~listkeys elinux10:43
*** vahe has joined #maemo10:43
infobotFactoid search of 'elinux' by key (10): pxelinux ;; cafelinux ;; selinux ;; elinuxchanges ;; corelinux++ ;; #elinux logs ;; skolelinux ;; elinux ;; .say #elinux this #DEL# ;; #elinux kergoth.10:43
KotCzarny~listkeys n90010:44
infobotFactoid search of 'n900' by key (11): n900ponie ;; n900 #DEL# ;; meego-n900 ;; n900-kbd-mapping ;; n900pinkponies ;; on n900 #DEL# ;; optimizen900 ;; n900-full-reset ;; n900 ;; arch-n900 ;; n900-power.10:44
OksanaIs Kernel Power the only way to get IPv6 on N900? Because IPv6 sounds neat, but messing with kernel(s) sounds dangerous10:44
freemangordonno, it is not, actually KP is more stable than stock10:44
KotCzarnyoksana: you can compile modules for stock too10:44
KotCzarnyand most likely you can force install those from powerkernel too10:45
KotCzarnybut kernel power is one of the few packages with 'power' in the name that are recommended over stock10:45
bencohbut I still don't see any reason not to use KP10:45
bencohfreemangordon: oh and, kernel dev usually means a 2nd device10:47
freemangordonyou can always boot through the flasher10:48
OksanaStock? Upstream: mainline, stable, or linux-next?10:48
KotCzarnyfmg, not if n900 is the MAIN phone ;)10:48
freemangordonit is convenient, but not a must10:48
bencohsure but you don't really want to do that for your daily device10:48
bencohit'd be like turning your phone off and not receiving any calls10:48
freemangordonwell, you can always buy a second hand for some 30 euros, or request a donation from the community10:49
* Oksana thinks that in scenario of porting from stock to upstream N900 should not be in danger... It's joysticks which will be in danger ;-)10:49
KotCzarnyand there is always slight chance of b0rking fs ;)10:49
* KotCzarny has 3.5 of n900s10:49
freemangordonyes, but you can always reflash10:50
freemangordonand the chances are not so slim :D10:50
KotCzarnyanyway, having second device helps immensely10:50
bencohsee? 2nd device .)10:50
KotCzarnyeven for testing stock vs testing10:50
freemangordonKotCzarny: :D10:51
freemangordonand that was not enough, I had to make a follow-up patch10:51
KotCzarnyhow about hardcoding those values? there arent any n900 variants10:52
freemangordonbencoh: sure it is better to have second dev10:52
freemangordonKotCzarny: hmm?10:52
*** NIN101 has quit IRC10:52
KotCzarnythose init values require setting some chip debug10:53
OksanaOkay, upstream: /do not forget to change date in URL accordingly with time/10:53
KotCzarnyaccording to the description10:53
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo10:53
freemangordonwell, this is mainline kernel, you don;t know where it will be used10:53
bencohKotCzarny: it's the onenand driver10:53
freemangordonn900 is not the only device with omp3 inside10:53
bencohnot a n900 board driver10:53
OksanaKconfig and Makefile look fairly the same... /just eye-check/10:54
* Oksana should run diff on the two directories, for easier reading10:54
DocScrutinizer05((needs porting of the good parts from stock to upstream)) forget about it, we discussed that at epic length with upstream and the notion is "there's a working driver, we won't accept a new one"10:55
freemangordonnaah, patches are always welcome10:55
freemangordonanyway, /me has to run10:56
DocScrutinizer05yep patches. but those would mean you need to patch out the complete old files and patch in the new ones. And then you get an API change10:56
OksanaA: what is API, does it have to be changed? B: Why is API change so tragic? C: Wouldn't it be possible to have two not-conflicting versions of driver (like libs: version 1 and version 2), for users to choose which one to use?10:57
DocScrutinizer05C got rejected10:58
OksanaLike, making code more efficient inside would not require change of API? But adding new skills (like click detection) has to change API?10:58
DocScrutinizer05A is Application Programming Interface, basically what you see in ls /sys /dev10:58
* Oksana is going outdoors10:58
freemangordonAPI change is rejected only if it breaks userspace10:59
OksanaWill read log tomorrow10:59
DocScrutinizer05B, see A10:59
KotCzarnyapi is functions availabe to users/libs exported as public from the particular library11:00
freemangordonalso, it is ok to introduce a change that implements some kind of a new behaviour, but by default the old one is effective and you "switch" to the new one somehow11:00
freemangordonanyway, /me is afk11:01
DocScrutinizer05adding new skills like click detection means you need interface to enable and to 'read' those skills, and that interface (API) must not conflict with the existing11:01
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: yep, that _could_ probably be done11:02
DocScrutinizer05first and foremost upstream has a /dev/* and nokia has a /sys/*11:02
DocScrutinizer05good luck, no fun11:02
KotCzarnyfmg: detecting api version and if'fing available functions in a program?11:03
bencohKotCzarny: noooo =11:03
bencohit's always messy when you need to do that for kernel APIs11:03
KotCzarnykind of 'this site should work without javascript, but has more bells with'11:03
bencohforcing it at compile-time is always a disaster since it means having the exact linux headers11:04
bencohso you have to do it at runtime11:04
*** bredebid has joined #maemo11:04
DocScrutinizer05(disclaimer: IIRC)11:05
KotCzarnybencoh, not #ifdef, just if(APIVER>=1.x) { function is available } else { noop }11:05
DocScrutinizer05ancient OM;a=blob;f=include/linux/lis302dl.h;h=0c1fc3097312f9107ec3d574d2d3a1700444f17d;hb=andy-tracking;a=blob;f=drivers/input/misc/lis302dl.c;h=d345bfb2718fba6c96c7a27d83b53c0a35c9d064;hb=andy-tracking11:07
DocScrutinizer05fremantle (alas stale):
DocScrutinizer05upstream:  (stale:)
bencohKotCzarny: re-read what I've said11:09
bencohyou'll see why it's a disaster11:09
KotCzarnyheaders might be an issue, yes11:10
bencohand you're doing it at runtime to avoid the header issue11:10
bencohso basically you'll have a huge and ugly detection code11:11
*** troulouliou_div2 has joined #maemo11:11
KotCzarnywell, detection would be only about apiver, and i think many libs/apps do it this way11:12
bencohthey do, yes11:12
KotCzarnyand as i said, basic functionality should work regardless of the ver11:12
DocScrutinizer05from torvalds kernel: >> rate - read reports the sampling rate of the accelerometer device in HZ.                write changes sampling rate of the accelerometer device.<< sampling means polling11:14
DocScrutinizer05>> This driver also provides an absolute input class device, allowing the laptop to act as a pinball machine-esque joystick.<<11:15
*** vahe has quit IRC11:15
*** bredebid has quit IRC11:17
*** vahe has joined #maemo11:17
DocScrutinizer05  me pukes11:17
*** freemangordon_ has joined #maemo11:30
*** jskarvad has joined #maemo11:50
*** freemangordon_1 has joined #maemo11:54
*** corvinux has joined #maemo11:56
*** freemangordon_ has quit IRC11:58
*** ult has joined #maemo12:07
*** arcean has quit IRC12:12
*** arcean has joined #maemo12:12
*** arcean has joined #maemo12:13
*** Valle__ has joined #maemo12:18
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC12:22
*** corvinux has quit IRC12:22
kerioDocScrutinizer05: how much devuan have you uploaded12:25
keriohahahahah "how do i simulate freefall"12:26
DocScrutinizer05>tfw you're probably the only one that wants the RGB led's that festoon the proto-prototype to be on the final build12:26
DocScrutinizer05          RX bytes:20094295576 (19163.4 Mb)  TX bytes:66759818671 (63667.1 Mb)12:26
kerioUploaded: 70.2 GB (Ratio: 6.60)12:27
DocScrutinizer05ratio? well that's 0 or infinite12:27
DocScrutinizer05and tbh I don't care anymore, they don't manage to add mirror to list12:29
*** freemangordon_1 has quit IRC12:29
DocScrutinizer05in the end it's pointless anyway since all .iso do a netinstall12:29
*** corvinux has joined #maemo12:30
*** corvinux has quit IRC12:30
*** corvinux has joined #maemo12:30
DocScrutinizer05maybe until BETA2 they fixed all that, incl URL for mirror12:30
*** arcean has quit IRC12:32
DocScrutinizer05(lis302 driver) prolly you could even fix the upstream one when making rads from /dev/* block until IRQ triggers, and allow filer&IRQ config via /sys/*12:33
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: (lis302 driver) prolly you could even fix the upstream one when making reads from /dev/* block until IRQ triggers, and allow filer&IRQ config via /sys/*12:33
*** arcean has joined #maemo12:33
*** arcean has quit IRC12:34
*** arcean has joined #maemo12:34
*** bredebid has joined #maemo12:43
*** bredebid2 has joined #maemo12:43
*** bredebid2 has quit IRC12:44
DocScrutinizer05kerio: (upload/seed) there are like 160 seeders for 30 leechers12:45
infobothmm... trackerstats is
DocScrutinizer05S/L/D: 134/28/012:46
DocScrutinizer05you can't seed when nobody leeches12:47
*** Valle__ has quit IRC12:50
*** Valle__ has joined #maemo13:04
*** andril has joined #maemo13:16
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo13:18
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo13:18
*** zap has quit IRC13:23
*** arcean has quit IRC13:27
*** arcean has joined #maemo13:27
*** freemangordon_ has joined #maemo13:45
*** pagurus has joined #maemo13:54
*** freemangordon_ has quit IRC13:57
*** freemangordon_ has joined #maemo14:08
*** Vajb has joined #maemo14:16
*** freemangordon_ has quit IRC14:16
*** trumee_ has joined #maemo14:22
*** trumee has quit IRC14:25
*** trumee_ is now known as trumee14:25
*** corvinux has quit IRC14:39
*** arcean has quit IRC14:46
*** arcean has joined #maemo14:47
*** sunshavi has joined #maemo15:10
*** vahe has quit IRC15:13
*** bredebid has quit IRC15:23
*** sunshavi has quit IRC15:24
*** Vajb has quit IRC15:39
*** corvinux has joined #maemo15:50
*** vahe has joined #maemo16:05
*** zGrr has joined #maemo16:25
zGrrmoin :)16:26
*** freemangordon has quit IRC16:46
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo16:46
ceeneSicelo: you ready to get your number banned?16:50
Siceloceene: yes!!16:51
ceeneok, so i'm gonna try and register with your number16:51
ceeneand see if i can talk to anyone16:51
ceeneor whatever16:51
ceenelet's see if i've solved that segfault16:52
freemangordonwell, not getting banned would be a success, ain't?16:52
ceenei think banning will not happen now16:52
*** arcean has quit IRC16:52
ceenebut well, it's better to prepare for the worst16:52
freemangordonceene: how hard is to make emulation of the other side?16:52
freemangordonso to not get banned on every mistake you make16:52
ceenei think we won't get banned now, as most bans happen when re-registering with different user agents16:53
ceenethat's i think what caused my last ban16:53
*** Valle__ has quit IRC16:53
ceenenow i need to debug the encryption protocol16:53
ceeneif i can't build a client... i can't build a server to emulate the client16:54
ceenethat's for sure :/16:54
ceeneso, Sicelo , when you're ready i'll need your phone number and for you to pass me the code whatsapp sends you16:55
ceenethat'll be better on a private conv, i guess :)16:55
Sicelodone :)16:56
ceeneReply: "{"status":"fail","reason":"no_routes","retry_after":3600,"sms_wait":3600,"voice_wait":3600}16:57
ceenei don't know what the hell that means16:57
ceenei think i may need mcc and mnc?16:58
Siceloat least not banned. isn't that the wait because sms is not getting delivered16:58
Sicelowait :)16:58
Siceloiirc it takes 5 minutes for the sms to arrive16:58
ceenenop, but it's not gonna get sent16:59
Siceloi've registered numbers without them being in my N900.. there a 5 minute wait16:59
ceenemaybe i need to make mcc and mnc be 00017:00
ceeneinstead of those of my company17:00
Sicelowhat was mcc that it showed in log?17:00
ceeneotherwise status is sucess sms_sent17:00
ceeneit's using spanish mcc and mnc17:00
ceene214, 00317:00
Sicelolet me check mcc for vodacom sout africa .. likey 655 0117:01
ceene65501zaSouth Africa27Vodacom17:02
ceeneok, trying again17:04
ceeneuhm, nop, i did something wrong17:05
Sicelobanned? :op17:05
ceeneno, not yet :)17:06
ceeneit keeps complaining17:08
ceenebut mcc and mnc are now correct17:08
ceeneReply: "{"status":"fail","reason":"no_routes","retry_after":3600,"sms_wait":3600,"voice_wait":3600}17:08
ceeneunless i need to wait those 3600 seconds before trying again17:09
DocScrutinizer05I start to worry that at the time yappari works again, there won't be any accounts left over on whatsapp that are not banned yet17:11
*** bredebid has joined #maemo17:12
ceenewell, i've made my best to keep people from using yappari17:12
DocScrutinizer05seems ou are still active thiugh ;-)17:12
ceenethere are a couple who insisted on registering and re-registering from android to yappari back and forth and share their "discovery" on tmo17:12
ceenei assume they're all banned now17:12
freemangordonwell, one can be unbanned, no?17:12
DocScrutinizer05seems ceene says no17:13
ceenein the worst case you get automatically unbanned after 60 days17:13
freemangordonnot that bad17:13
ceenesome people have managed to contact someone at whatsapp and cry a little about getting a new phone for christmas etc, etc, and have had success17:13
Sicelolet's wait those 6 minutes and see17:14
ceeneyep, at least until 16:2017:14
freemangordonok, but does that policy mean you can't transfer your sim to a new phone?17:14
ceenewell, XX:20 in your countries :)17:14
DocScrutinizer05check your math!17:14
*** florian has quit IRC17:14
ceenefreemangordon: you can... but if you do it frequently enough or in a pattern they deem as suspect you're banned17:14
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: why 6 minutes?17:15
freemangordonoh, how nice17:15
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: (17,08,54) ceene: Reply: "{"status":"fail","reason":"no_routes","retry_after":3600,"sms_wait":3600,"voice_wait":3600}17:15
ceene3600 is 60 minutes17:15
Sicelobecause the sim is not in his N90017:15
Sicelowtf! that's bad17:15
ceenei won't even be here in an hour17:15
freemangordonceene: wouldn't it be easier if you give Sicelo the .deb and help him try?17:16
ceeneok, doesn't matter17:16
ceenefreemangordon: thing is, I'm mostly sure it won't work yet17:16
Siceloceene: maybe send me the new yappari .. then i can send you the .conf17:16
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC17:16
Siceloand not use it further17:16
Siceloyes, what fmg is saying :)17:16
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo17:16
freemangordonceene: because you're now causing artificial problems :)17:16
ceenewe'd still have to wait, though17:16
freemangordonsure, but I guess Sicelo has his phone with him ;)17:17
ceenenow that i've hardcoded mcc and mnc it doesn't really matter17:17
ceenethat's true17:17
ceenei worry about contacts, though17:17
ceenedon't know what will happen if yappari syncs its contacts17:18
freemangordonceene: you sure (doesn't matter)? that one too17:18
ceeneand then it tries to use mine17:18
freemangordonceene: wait, isn't that an opt=in?17:18
ceenethat's a good question17:18
Siceloit is optional in previous yappari at least17:18
ceeneyou may get banned if you speak to someone who doesn't have you in their contact list17:18
ceenelet me see what happens when you select not to sync17:19
freemangordonwait, isn't that syncing code part of yappari?17:19
ceenefreemangordon: yes, yes, i can disable it if needed17:19
freemangordonah, ok17:19
ceenei just don't know what can happen if you make a new connection but don't try to sync anything at all17:19
* freemangordon wonders who with his right mind would want to use service you get banned from for coughing in wrong time, for example :p17:21
ceenethose of us who live in countries where this piece of shit is the only thing anybody will use17:22
Siceloi have a sim card from swaziland that was never on whatsapp, and i also no one knows it. i'll check if it hasn't expired yet .. if still active, i'll give you that one then17:22
Sicelobut it's at home ... will be there after 30 minutes17:22
freemangordonceene: you're in spain, right?17:22
ceeneof course, if you use the official client you won't get banned unless you are a spammer or keep changing phones17:22
DocScrutinizer05your own fault, you didn't say no17:22
ceenefreemangordon: yes17:22
ceeneSicelo: don't worry... i won't be here in an hour17:22
ceeneDocScrutinizer05: who should i have said "no" to?17:23
ceenei didn't even know whatsapp existed when it was all famous around here :)17:23
freemangordonceene: hmm, last time I was there people looked pretty much normal17:23
DocScrutinizer05and crap in general17:23
freemangordonso I guess they still know how to use normal phone calls17:24
ceeneof course you can communicate with people17:24
ceenebut there's some psichological issues at work here17:24
DocScrutinizer05I see ;-P17:25
ceeneif someone's dying, they'll call me for sure17:25
ceenei won't miss a funeral for not having whatsapp17:25
ceenebut i may miss something not so trascendental17:25
DocScrutinizer05I won't miss a date for same rewason either17:25
freemangordonare you sure you're in Spain and not in GB?17:25
ceenecompletely, why? :)17:25
freemangordonthe kind of the humor sound like English one :)17:26
ceenefor example, a cousin of ahycka has is going to be a father now17:26
ceeneof course all the cousins will know sooner or later17:26
ceenebut all the gossip is through whatsapp17:26
ceeneso you miss socializing17:26
freemangordonI see17:26
ceenenot that anything important is discussed there17:26
DocScrutinizer05no, THEY miss socializing17:27
DocScrutinizer05with you17:27
ceenewell, if they're 20 and I'm only 1...17:27
ceenewho's the one socially isolated?17:27
DocScrutinizer05who's the one smart guy that doesn't play sheep?17:27
ceenedoes it matter?17:28
DocScrutinizer05all those suckers have flatrate plans anyway17:28
*** BitEvil has joined #maemo17:28
*** SpeedEvil is now known as Guest3529217:28
ceeneDocScrutinizer05: we couldn't have this very same conversation over the phone17:28
*** Guest35292 has quit IRC17:28
ceenethat's why irc, and group chatting was invented17:28
DocScrutinizer05but still they rather use something that's completely for free than something they have to pay for anyway no matter if they use it or not17:29
ceeneand we're only a handful of people talking17:29
freemangordonceene: correct, but then you're not limited to whatsapp17:29
DocScrutinizer05ooh, you're sure?17:29
ceeneno, of course the service provider could be any other one17:29
Sicelowhatsapp completely free 'in terms of money'17:29
freemangordonis it?17:29
Sicelothe yearly subscription was dropped last year17:30
freemangordonah, I guess it was the other "great" service that was free only for an year - viber17:30
freemangordondidn;t know that17:30
DocScrutinizer51I'm pretty sure we coild have this convo over phone. we just do17:30
ceeneDocScrutinizer05: no, we couldn't17:30
Siceloit still sucks, lol, but as ceene is saying .. we need it because the 'rest' of the world just won't accept anything else17:31
ceenebecause as we're speaking i'm looking at yappari's code17:31
ceeneand i'm also talking to other people through other means17:31
ceeneand reading emails17:31
freemangordonceene: correct, I got it17:31
ceenei couldn't do all those things while i have to listen to all your voices and speak mine17:31
DocScrutinizer51well at least I am using my phone right now17:31
ceeneasynchronous conversations are useful17:31
freemangordonbut still, you can say - I am on #maemo, if you wish to send me a picture or video or whatever, you know my email17:32
freemangordonat least this is what I do17:32
ceeneyeah, and i'll get some pictures at the email17:32
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: that's BS, the rest of the world "doesn't accept" just because nobody demands them to do17:32
ceeneno one would connect here because they don't even know what's irc17:32
ceenebut still, i'll be missing a lot17:32
ceenei am, in fact17:32
freemangordonyeah, sure17:33
ceeneit's not that i've suddenly disappeared out of the earth17:33
ceenepeople know how to reach me17:33
freemangordonok, irc - but then there is gtalk, skype, etc, etc17:33
ceenebut will they?17:33
DocScrutinizer05and as I already said everybody and their dogs each have thweir own flatrate plan for minutes and text17:33
freemangordonnot to say you can chat over SMSes17:33
freemangordonand MMSes17:34
ceenewe don't have free sms here in spain17:34
SiceloDocScrutinizer05: we don't have such flat rate17:34
ceenebut all of that is missing the part in which you can participate in a conversation with ten parties, not just one on one17:34
DocScrutinizer05I'd rather set up a webchat on my own server than use friggin watsoup17:35
*** corvinux has quit IRC17:35
freemangordonceene: and what stops you going to the pub and making that conversation?17:35
ceenefreemangordon: well, real life for example :)17:35
ceenenot all of us have the same work hours17:35
SiceloN900 also no longer very useful with gtalk since hangouts17:35
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: lost generation17:35
ceenenor we do live near enough17:35
freemangordonoh, so you have time to hang in group chat, but don;t have time to meet people face-to-face17:36
ceenefreemangordon: of course17:36
ceeneright now i'm at work17:36
freemangordonI see17:36
ceenesupposedly working17:36
DocScrutinizer05toldya, lost17:36
ceenei can't go have a beer now17:36
freemangordonceene: ok, got it17:36
Sicelolol DocScrutinizer05. i'm in South Africa & my sisters are in another country. calls are quite expensive between these two places. these same sisters have other people they keep in touch with via whatsapp. trust me, i've tried to teach them IRC, etc. didn't get anywhere. they've offered to help me buy a droid instead :p17:38
freemangordonSicelo: yeah, SA is another story17:38
DocScrutinizer05500 "friends" on qwitter 1000 followers on farcebook, but a decent phonecall is too expensive, rather chat over watsoup all day long than have a really good 10 minutes phonecall per day17:38
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: VoIP is ~3ct/min to virtually everywhere on this globe17:39
DocScrutinizer05to landlines17:39
ceeneDocScrutinizer05: we can discuss the technical merits of whatsapp as well as its evilness as a company, but the fact that it's used by millions of people speaks for itself: it's something useful that people appreciate17:39
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: are you sure?17:39
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: quite, yes17:40
freemangordonceene: come on, does that mean that people appreciate android?17:40
ceeneof course17:40
Siceloyes, they do.17:40
ceeneit doesn't mean there isn't anything better than that17:40
Siceloand ios17:40
freemangordonthey don;t have an option17:40
ceeneor that it's the best thing since sliced bread17:40
ceenebut they do appreciate it17:40
Siceloagreed.. same as whatsapp.. currently no option17:40
* Sicelo hates whatsapp too btw17:41
ceeneeven if there's an option, there's thing called inertia17:41
freemangordonhaving no option is not appreciating17:41
ceenefreemangordon: we're talking about something that did not exist 10 years ago17:41
ceeneit suddenly appeared17:41
ceeneand people liked it17:41
ceeneif that's not the very definition of appreciating, i don't know what it is17:41
ceenenobody is forcing anybody to use it17:41
ceeneyet everyone does17:41
ceeneso... there must be something that they provide that people want17:41
DocScrutinizer05just like suckerberg17:42
freemangordondo they really? because IIRC by the time android appeared in 2009, Nokia was in decline and the only other option was IPhone 317:42
DocScrutinizer05or Openmoko ;-D17:42
Sicelohere there was a local chat platform, MXit. people used it, and it didn't have crazy policies. user base diminished when whatsapp landed, to the point that the company is considering to shut down17:42
DocScrutinizer05hardly known but OM Freerunner was the first phone where android got tested17:43
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: hmm FB owns whatsapp as well, AFAIK17:43
DocScrutinizer05(first phone) that's what I've been told at least17:44
freemangordonso the policies and marketing strategies are done in one and the same place, and I suspect they learned from redmond17:44
DocScrutinizer05I was EE so didn't mind what they do there17:44
DocScrutinizer05what was pretty clear from beginniong: on MY freerunner won't get any Android17:45
freemangordonBTW I am really starting to hope Jolla to succeed, as dark times are ahead otherwise IMO.17:46
DocScrutinizer05and we actually laughed about first iPhne services sold as newest hottest shit, we had that already17:46
Sicelofreemangordon: elaborate17:46
ceenewell, guys, i'm gonna be going17:47
ceeneSicelo: we'll have to continue tomorrow, as i have all this afternoon occupied17:47
freemangordonSicelo: for example - my and my lady bough the last 2 "Nokia with a a flashligh" devices in the store ...17:47
freemangordona couple of months ago that is17:47
freemangordonthere is a label "Microsoft" on the chargers17:47
freemangordonto my surprise, you *CAN'T* connect HF to those devices, even though they have BT, only OPP and FTP profiles are supported17:48
freemangordonSicelo: another story - a friend of mine has Mitsubishi car with built-in BT HF (a microphone etc)17:49
freemangordonhis Android refuses to play music through car's speakers, but HF works ok17:49
freemangordonSicelo: do you get what I mean?17:49
freemangordonI don;t think that trading the freedom of choice for a kind of "convenience" is a smart choice17:51
freemangordonSicelo: and Jolla are the only ones who try to do something at least partially different17:53
Sicelosorry had network trouble just now.17:56
Siceloi agree :)17:57
*** BitEvil has quit IRC18:00
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo18:01
*** troulouliou_div2 has quit IRC18:06
*** eMHa has joined #maemo18:09
*** troulouliou_div2 has joined #maemo18:10
*** Trizt has quit IRC18:31
*** Trizt has joined #maemo18:32
KotCzarnywell, difference between irc and WA is the almost automatic grouping of 'friends'18:34
KotCzarnyand interface simplified enough to clicky click18:34
KotCzarnysimilar to the 'computing for the masses' from the '80s18:38
luke-jrso any usable GPS sw these days? :/18:40
*** LauRoman|Alt has quit IRC18:40
luke-jrGoogle Maps no longer works in microb sigh18:41
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo18:41
*** LauRoman has quit IRC18:42
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo18:42
*** eMHa has quit IRC18:52
*** vakkov has joined #maemo19:07
*** Valle__ has joined #maemo19:11
*** vakkov has quit IRC19:15
*** fuz_ has joined #maemo19:20
*** eMHa has joined #maemo19:28
*** zGrr has quit IRC19:37
*** fuz_ has quit IRC19:42
*** fuz_ has joined #maemo19:48
SiceloDocScrutinizer05 ... my 2nd N900 charging with Red LED19:48
Siceloany ideas?19:49
DocScrutinizer05green LED defect?19:49
DocScrutinizer05battery dead19:49
DocScrutinizer05video camera on? ;-)19:49
Sicelodefect battery you mean? because the device is on19:50
Siceloand it's not the others19:50
*** krnlyng has joined #maemo19:50
Siceloi think this is error LED pattern19:50
DocScrutinizer05when the charger chip (or BME?) detects a massive error...19:50
Sicelolet me connect to wifi and check syslog19:51
DocScrutinizer05use charge21,sh, check error/status code19:51
*** futpib has joined #maemo19:51
DocScrutinizer05charger defect?19:52
DocScrutinizer05(overvoltage, poor power)19:52
Siceloi doubt. let me check with main N90019:53
DocScrutinizer05first of all: check if reproducible19:53
DocScrutinizer05and even before: check if device operates from battery19:54
DocScrutinizer05I.E. unplug charger19:54
Siceloit's reproducible. other N900 works fine with it. i guess bad battery.19:54
DocScrutinizer05swap abttery19:54
*** Cor-Ai has quit IRC19:54
*** robink has quit IRC19:54
DocScrutinizer05errr wait19:55
DocScrutinizer05you got wlan ssh?19:55
DocScrutinizer05run 5, then unplug charger19:55
*** Cor-Ai has joined #maemo19:56
Sicelowill check when it's up again :p19:56
DocScrutinizer05wait a 30 s before unplugging19:56
DocScrutinizer05or even better, paste one line of log here19:56
DocScrutinizer05before we decide what to do next19:56
DocScrutinizer05hmmm, it exploded and blasted whole block?20:01
Sicelono. it's booting now. but i notice the color when shutting down/booting is pink instead of white :-/20:01
DocScrutinizer05green LED defect20:01
Sicelowill install patter editor and see20:02
Siceloyes. green is gone20:03
*** vishap has quit IRC20:03
DocScrutinizer05cat /syscat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/selftest20:03
DocScrutinizer05cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/selftest20:04
DocScrutinizer05back in 10 min. shopping20:05
Siceloled 2 fail \n led 4 fail \n led 5 fail20:05
*** tanty is now known as tanty_off20:05
luke-jrE: Failed to fetch Couldn't resolve host ''20:06
luke-jrany idea how to fix? >_<20:06
Sicelothis 2nd N900 .. sucks. mmc doesn't work, now LED borked.20:06
Siceloluke-jr: the mirrors should have that. i use maemo-repos20:09
infobotit has been said that mirror is  or - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new20:09
*** vahe has quit IRC20:09
*** robink has joined #maemo20:10
DocScrutinizer05~liskeys mirror20:15
*** jskarvad has quit IRC20:15
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys mirror20:15
infobotFactoid search of 'mirror' by key (15 of 45): #devuan mirrors ;; #maemo mirror ;; #maemo mirrors ;; .de mirror ;; 2.4 mirrors ;; au debian mirror ;; cmd: mirror (.*?) ;; d-i mirror ;; debian mirror ;; debian mirror space howto ;; debian mirrors ;; disk mirroring ;; dos mirror ;; eclipt mirroring tool ;; familiar mirror.20:15
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mirror is  or - for fighting hashsum error, or see ~rmo-new20:15
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues cloud-720:16
infobotFactoid search of 'cloud-7' by value (17): flashing-cmdline #DEL# ;; #maemo interim-dns ;; bq27k-detail ;; unplug-usb ;; matan ;; jrrepos ;; bq-calibrate ;; #maemo mhd ;; #maemo wiki-backup ;; malf ;; aegis-no-thanks ;; bq27 ;; backupmenu ;; maemo-flashing ;; #maemo bm-images ;; no. maemo-flashing #DEL# ;; #maemo dns #DEL#.20:16
SiceloDocScrutinizer05: not fixable, i guess?20:16
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: prolly not20:16
infobotjrrepos is probably
DocScrutinizer05~tell luke-jr about jrrepos20:17
DocScrutinizer05recommended.*  - click in microB browser20:18
DocScrutinizer05or click *this*
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: I wonder why THREE LEDs are dead20:19
DocScrutinizer052 of them must be kbd LEDs20:20
Sicelokbd lights fine20:20
Sicelowill try a reflash some day .. it's my aux N900 .. not too concerned about it20:21
*** lobito has quit IRC20:21
DocScrutinizer05well, I'm intrigued20:21
Siceloi can do any tests you feel like, lol20:22
Siceloi won't be flashing it any time soon20:22
DocScrutinizer05flashing hardly will change anything20:22
DocScrutinizer05let's see20:22
DocScrutinizer052 and 4 must be 1 and 2 from left / right in KBD20:24
DocScrutinizer05there are 5 LED in KBD20:24
DocScrutinizer055 is a color of indicator light, I __guess__ it __could__ be green ;-)20:25
Sicelogreen is gone for sure. pattern editor confirmed20:26
DocScrutinizer05echo 100 > /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb2/brightness20:28
DocScrutinizer05with opened kbd and *via WLAN ssh*20:28
DocScrutinizer05watch if a LED goes bright20:28
DocScrutinizer05echo 0 > /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb2/brightness20:28
DocScrutinizer05echo 100 > /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb3/brightness20:28
DocScrutinizer05and so on for 4 and 520:29
DocScrutinizer05two of them reported 'fail'20:29
SiceloLEDs worked for all 320:31
Sicelo5 wasn't so bright though, but it did show20:31
Siceloah .. it's good brightness too20:31
DocScrutinizer05while true; do for (( i=1; i<7; i++ )); do echo $i; echo 100 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb${i]/brightness; sleep 1; echo 100 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb${i]/brightness; done; done20:32
Siceloi remember that script :)20:32
DocScrutinizer05while true; do for (( i=1; i<7; i++ )); do echo $i; echo 100 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb${i]/brightness; sleep 1; echo 0 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb${i]/brightness; done; done20:32
Sicelo Bad for loop variable20:33
Sicelono bash lol20:35
Siceloguess it will have to wait20:35
DocScrutinizer05while true; do i=1; while [ i < 7 ]; do echo $i; echo 100 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb${i]/brightness; sleep 1; echo 0 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb${i}/brightness; done; i= $(( i + 1 )); done20:36
DocScrutinizer05bourneshell aka messybox20:36
DocScrutinizer05while true; do i=1; while [ i < 7 ]; do echo $i; echo 100 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb${i]/brightness; sleep 1; echo 0 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb${i}/brightness; i= $(( i + 1 ));done;  done20:37
Sicelo/bin/sh: syntax error: Bad substitution20:38
DocScrutinizer05while true; do i=1; while [ i < 7 ]; do echo $i; echo 100 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb${i}/brightness; sleep 1; echo 0 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb${i}/brightness; i= $(( i + 1 ));done;  done20:38
Sicelo/bin/sh: cannot open 7: no such file20:38
DocScrutinizer05bash: 7: No such file or directory20:39
*** N-Mi has quit IRC20:40
DocScrutinizer05while true; do i=1; while [ $i -lt 7 ]; do echo $i; echo 100 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:kb${i}/brightness; sleep 1; echo 0 >/sys/class/leds/lp5523\:kb${i}/brightness; i=$(( i + 1 ));done;  done20:45
Sicelo3 is dead20:46
DocScrutinizer05still the friggin dimming pattern running in engine20:46
DocScrutinizer05but it sort of works20:47
Siceloall others fine20:47
DocScrutinizer05I dunno20:48
DocScrutinizer05maybe the defect green one has side effects20:48
DocScrutinizer05or the 3rd one is half-dead only20:48
Sicelocould be. and .. this N900 has bad flex .. maybe that's the real problem20:48
DocScrutinizer05not for kbd20:48
*** ketaran has quit IRC20:49
Sicelobad flex killed earpiece for some reason i can't fathom, while everything else works. problem moves with the flex, as i have exchanged it between these N90020:49
*** ketaran has joined #maemo20:49
*** arcean has joined #maemo21:00
DocScrutinizer05umm, maybe "bad flex" means flawed I2C bus?21:05
DocScrutinizer05but even then... how's AV jack related to I2C? via the amp?#21:05
DocScrutinizer05ooh, earpiece21:07
DocScrutinizer05of course21:07
DocScrutinizer05that's in display half, so how do you guess it gets connected ;-)21:07
DocScrutinizer05I assume you swapped complete display though21:08
DocScrutinizer05so it might even be the earbiece itself21:08
*** bredebid has quit IRC21:11
Siceloi swapped flex.21:14
Sicelonow sent and received sms on my main N900. nothing shows, :D21:14
Sicelotime for android after all, haha21:15
Siceloah, killall rtcomm-messaging-ui21:18
*** zGrr has joined #maemo21:24
luke-jrNavit seems to just not work :/21:36
*** bredebid has joined #maemo21:37
luke-jrsuddenly I lose my GPS lock and sats disappearing o.O21:43
luke-jrstill 6 visible, but no lock21:43
luke-jr9 again21:43
luke-jrshouldn't 3 be enough⁇ :/21:43
luke-jrlocked again, still no map :/21:45
*** troulouliou_div2 has quit IRC21:54
*** lobito has joined #maemo21:54
*** ketaran has quit IRC22:01
*** ketaran has joined #maemo22:01
*** arcean has quit IRC22:12
*** Milhouse has quit IRC22:40
*** luke-jr has quit IRC22:41
*** Milhouse has joined #maemo22:43
*** luke-jr has joined #maemo22:47
*** vishap has joined #maemo22:47
*** lobito has quit IRC22:54
*** vishap has quit IRC22:59
*** florian has joined #maemo23:08
*** xorly has joined #maemo23:15
*** vishap has joined #maemo23:20
*** arcean has joined #maemo23:22
*** xorly has quit IRC23:24
*** pagurus has quit IRC23:26
*** sunshavi has joined #maemo23:53
*** futpib has quit IRC23:57

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!