IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2016-03-29

« Monday, 2016-03-28 Index Wednesday, 2016-03-30 »
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azkayWhere's my phoneeeee. Hurry up postman, it's already 8:25am!01:25
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azkayWeeee n900 arrived07:33
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bencohbleh, the alarm/timeshift bug hit me.... is that fixed in -testing?08:37
bencoh(we just switched to DST, and... alarm ran an hour late ..)08:38
Defiantwhat bug? My alarm was at the right time, which of course is another issue..08:45
* Defiant would have liked an alarm a bit later08:45
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azkaySo what's the go with CSSU in 2016? Stable or testing?10:35
L29Ahanything goes10:38
L29Ahand still not enough10:38
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KotCzarnyazkay: if you know nothing about linux then go with stable, otherwise testing10:46
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zGrrmoin :)10:57
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azkayI know enough, I just haven't touched N900 in maybe 3 years so I'm not really sure what has changed since haha11:00
azkayWith everything else that's gone on over with servers closing and mirrors starting, wasn't even sure if CSSU was still going11:00
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azkayI sure do wish I remembered to turn off wifi power saving before I started the cssu download haha11:22
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keriothis akku polarcell13:27
keriois pink13:27
keriowhy is it pink13:27
Defiantbecause they go your favorite color from your amazon profile13:29
kerio;<13:30
kerioanyway, calibratin13:33
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drathirlol kerio not wanna be rude or somethin like that but Your nick in mine irssi is also pink...13:43
drathirkerio: but guessing when take a high temp of cell they will looks still normal - the same...13:44
keriono like13:45
keriothe label13:45
drathirofc second is more joke...13:45
drathirkerio: but for serious for n900? expensive was?13:46
kerio14.90 on amazon italy13:46
FIQwhat capacity is it?13:47
drathirsounds not so bad... takin on mind only few nokia devices using them...13:47
kerioFIQ: nominal 140013:47
FIQisn't it only like13:47
kerioshould end up being in the high 1400s if it's a legit polarcell13:47
FIQN8, N900 and 5800XpressMusic?13:48
drathirbut c313:48
keriothere's also a lumia that uses the bl-5j13:48
FIQkerio, ah, ok13:48
FIQI see13:48
KotCzarnygo polarcell13:48
KotCzarnygo go go13:48
kerioDUDE I'M GOING CHILL13:48
KotCzarnydont be afraid of pink13:48
KotCzarnyembrace it!13:48
FIQat least it isn't lime green13:49
drathirbut not sure if c3/c2 chargin to full battery capacity... the battery are the same still..13:50
* drathir need reanimate usb in mine... last cssu upgrade go w/o probem even w/o usb good to have second n900 for charging purposes...13:51
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drathirVersion 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11 onboard...13:54
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drathirbut not yet upgraded kernel power bc of collision in gui updater, and apt-get dont follow HTTP_PROXY env from console...13:59
MaxdamantusI think the environment variable is usually in lower-case, oddly.14:00
Maxdamantusdunno if apt-get uses it though.14:00
drathirsad there isnt in repo proxychains...14:01
drathirwill help so much...14:02
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KotCzarnydrathir: did you try making package yourself?14:36
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drathirKotCzarny: debian packaging is a nightmare... also im not sure if im able to handle build on one battery w/o external charging...15:08
DocScrutinizer05drathir: you're building on target platform? :-o15:30
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keriotruly a god amongst men15:30
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azkayIs there a working google maps app that anyone knows of? Doesn't work in browser, just tried GeePS which doesn't seem to want to search16:21
bencohwhich part of gmap do you need? the map tiles, or the search?16:24
drathirDocScrutinizer05: if i will try build probably will do that directly at n900 not crosscompiling...16:24
drathirDocScrutinizer05: the same was doin at alarm on n900 , yea i know its little killing of device and probably not possible to build everything this way...16:26
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DocScrutinizer05lazy bot16:30
DocScrutinizer05and here it is again16:31
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DocScrutinizer05~wb16:32
infobotIt's great to be back!16:32
DocScrutinizer05~+uptime16:32
infobot- Uptime for purl -16:32
infobotNow: 1m 53s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux16:32
infobot1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 201016:32
infobot2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 200916:32
infobot3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 200916:32
DocScrutinizer05bot time again, thanks to purl16:34
DocScrutinizer05bot time again, thanks purl16:34
DocScrutinizer05thanks purl16:34
infobotsure thing, DocScrutinizer0516:34
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azkayJust the normal search an address, see it on the map type dealio17:10
drathirinfobot: botsnack17:12
infobotthanks, drathir17:12
kerioDocScrutinizer05: will something bad happen if i vboost "against" a wallcharger17:13
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DocScrutinizer05no17:25
DocScrutinizer05definitely not17:25
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keriowill something good happen17:52
keriolike increased power consumption17:52
kerio(good because i'm calibrating the battery)17:52
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DocScrutinizer05no18:13
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keriohow significant of a reduction in measured capacity will i have if i drain the battery at a constant ~250mA rate18:13
DocScrutinizer05boost converter will eat a tiny bit of energy18:14
DocScrutinizer05compared to what?18:14
kerio...i was going to say "compared to the actual capacity" but that's not really a thing anyway18:14
keriogoddamn chemical batteries18:14
DocScrutinizer05:-)18:15
keriolet's say compared to normal idling/usage18:15
DocScrutinizer05the capacity at 5mA might well be 1.5 times that at 250mA18:15
keriodamn18:15
DocScrutinizer05but that only means that your phone will shutdown instantly when after >1T you try to draw 250mA18:16
DocScrutinizer05otoh you still can draw 5mA for 0.5T after battery reached end-of-discharge at 250mA18:18
DocScrutinizer05so it's not really that bad an issue18:18
DocScrutinizer05the battery literally gets weak18:18
DocScrutinizer05eventually it's too weak to let device do some if the tasks18:19
DocScrutinizer05s/ if / of /18:19
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: eventually it's too weak to let device do some of the tasks18:19
DocScrutinizer05yes, T is >50* for 5mA compared to 250mA, but that isn't exactly what you're probing for during calibration, you almost can't18:22
DocScrutinizer05what you could do is: discharge for a 100 minutes at 5mA, shut off load, let recover 1 minute, probe voltage. Then recharge to 100% and repeat the process with 250mA and 2min discharge. Compare the two voltages. That gives you an idea about the true difference18:26
kerioassuming stuff is linear18:28
DocScrutinizer05no, you exactly check the chemical/electric nonlinearities in cell here18:29
DocScrutinizer05in theory an ideal cell would have identical voltage after 100min@5mA and 2min@250mA18:30
DocScrutinizer05a non-ideal ("onlinear") cell will differ in voltage without load, after some recovery time18:30
DocScrutinizer05the difference is the correction factor you could apply to discharge metering, based on discharge current18:31
DocScrutinizer05actually the ratio, not the difference18:32
DocScrutinizer05then you 'only' need to determine what's your question when looking at the battery charge meter18:33
DocScrutinizer05is the question "how long will it take until TX at full power will cease?" or is it "how long can I standby idle?"18:34
DocScrutinizer05some very smart meters tend to show both values18:34
DocScrutinizer05the math behind it is slightly non-trivial but for sure no witchcraft18:35
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L29Ahtoo bad the temporal resolution of the n900 battery controller is so poor18:39
L29Ahotherwise we could do this in software18:39
DocScrutinizer05umm, the temporal resolution is around 2.5s18:42
DocScrutinizer05for some values18:42
DocScrutinizer05a tad higher for others18:42
DocScrutinizer05generally the resolution is pretty good for this task, since the gas gauge integrates18:43
DocScrutinizer05not voltage but Coulomb18:43
L29Ahbut we can't get to know the ability of the battery to handle high and short current spikes that the phone usage mostly consists of18:45
DocScrutinizer05via Coulomb you get the integral of discharge for last window (a few seconds). For voltage you need to keep consumption of the device low anyway, since otherwise noise is way too high18:45
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's a tad of a problem, you can solve this only with relatively constant high current you use to probe the cell impedance18:46
DocScrutinizer05you have a relatively good idea of cell impedance when you once test voltage at 5mA and then at 500mA18:47
DocScrutinizer05you get voltage without load by probing several times in a row and taking the maximum out of that sequence18:48
L29Ahafaik it's not quite linear, for instance i've seen liion batteries losing the voltage quickly when a high current was applied, but then stabilizing at some slower pace18:49
DocScrutinizer05yes, of course18:49
L29Ahk maybe i should grok the actual theories instead of chatting18:49
DocScrutinizer05that's the correction factor mentioned above18:49
L29Ahthe internal resistance alone can't account for this event as it takes some time after the current is applied18:50
L29Ah*constant current18:51
DocScrutinizer05basically a cell is a huuuuge capacitor (well a pretty nonlinear one) in series to a resistive impedance of up to several 100 milliOhms, with another true capacitor to buffer output voltage (RC timing in the range of 5 to 30s), plus yet another series impedance that dirctly has immediate impact on voltage vs output current without any buffering18:52
DocScrutinizer05depending on the accuracy of equivalent virtual circuit you need, you can add more RC stages, one for the sub-1s range and one for the >100s range for example. And yet another for the millisecond range18:55
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DocScrutinizer05the question is if you need all that to answer your question to the meter, which is yet to be defined precisely18:56
DocScrutinizer05ater all any such meter prediction is only based on some assumption regarding usage pattern in the furture18:57
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DocScrutinizer05if you want a precise meter, you not only need a precise virtual circuit equeivalent of the cell, but also need a zillion concurrent values the meter displays, for a zillion possible usage scenarios during the next 2 to 200h18:59
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DocScrutinizer05what you can meter and calculate and display relatively precisely is a "xxx mAh left at 300mA constant load until voltage at this current drops below N.N volts"19:06
kerioLast Measured Discharge (LMD): 1122.765 mAh what the shit19:07
DocScrutinizer05and you probably can also chnage the "300" in this to any other arbitrary value19:07
DocScrutinizer05kerio: redo, it might still ahve a hangover from your previous bad battery?19:08
kerioit also didn't reset itself when i switched the battery19:08
DocScrutinizer05LMD is meaningless unless you get almost same value twice in a row19:08
kerio(i used the slide trick)19:08
kerio(i shouldn't have used the slide trick)19:08
keriooh hm19:09
keriomaybe it didn't calibrate?19:09
DocScrutinizer05what's the slide trick?19:09
keriohow do i check that again?19:09
kerioDocScrutinizer05: lift old battery, slide new battery under it, push it in19:09
kerioto maintain the clock19:09
DocScrutinizer05check for calibration? see "cycles since last learning"19:09
kerioCycle Count Since Learning Cycle (CYCL): 0 cycles19:09
kerio._.19:10
DocScrutinizer05so it calibrated19:10
keriomaybe i just got a dud19:10
keriothe old battery had the same LMD19:10
DocScrutinizer05maybe your gauge didn't accept the LMD since it been to far off from the previous one. It only adjusts a 12.5% per learning cycle iirc19:11
keriowe'll see19:11
kerioi mean19:11
kerioapparently it hit EDV1 at 12% csoc19:11
kerioideally it should be 6, right19:12
DocScrutinizer05yes19:12
DocScrutinizer05sounds like your new LMD is a 6% (12-8) lower than the previous one19:13
DocScrutinizer05(12-6) ohmy19:13
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DocScrutinizer05you might want to completely charge the cell prior to starting calibration19:14
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DocScrutinizer05I mean, really charge it for 4h19:15
DocScrutinizer05or 1:30 beyond light turns green19:15
keriowe'll see19:22
keriobut this polarcell looks sketchy as hell tho19:22
DocScrutinizer05(slide trick) DocScrutinizer05's magic battery speedswap ;-D19:23
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is that fast enough to hotswap a battery, btw?19:23
DocScrutinizer05actually I never tested it :-)19:23
kerioyou should19:23
DocScrutinizer05on a regular maemo it fails due to BSI/BME19:24
kerio:c19:24
Sicelohuh? never tested the hotswap method you documented on forum?19:24
kerioSicelo: not the hotswap with offline mode, suspend to ram and cable plugged in19:24
kerioyoloswapping a battery without another power source19:24
Siceloah, ok.19:24
kerioby just being very very fast19:24
keriosomehow i doubt it will work19:25
DocScrutinizer05me too19:25
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DocScrutinizer05let's see... we got a maybe...19:25
DocScrutinizer05200uF buffer on Vbatt19:26
kerioless math more yolo19:26
DocScrutinizer05we have a idle current around 5mA19:26
kerioDocScrutinizer05: even with software suspend?19:27
DocScrutinizer050.2mAs/V / 5mA = 0.04s/V19:28
DocScrutinizer05suspend to ram are 2 or 3mA19:28
DocScrutinizer05seems at battery end voltage of 3.4V you could get away with 20ms swap time19:29
DocScrutinizer05*might* work19:29
bluto271828hi all. got my first n900. it says 10.2010.19-1.002 for version. app manager works. installed dropbear ssh client. got SIM for GPRS. Monitoring my system via ncurses app. All working. mind blown! Bought two more from ebay. installed rootsh, setup passwds, installed dropbear server. poking around remotely via wlan. amazing. if it is you guys still running the repos where I got dropbear and rootsh. Thank you so much! thats it for now. sorry to bother you. b19:30
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DocScrutinizer05not bothering us at all19:31
DocScrutinizer05welcome here!19:31
DocScrutinizer05~jrtools19:32
infobotjrtools is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools19:32
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DocScrutinizer05bluto271828: please stay and bother us some more :-)19:34
Sicelobluto271828: you may want to upgrade your version of Maemo19:34
DocScrutinizer05~cssu19:34
infobotsomebody said cssu was http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update)19:34
bluto271828cool. thanks. as I have time will use other phones to start playing around. see if I can install this CSSU. understand how to clash19:35
bluto271828flash sorry19:35
DocScrutinizer05~slashing19:35
DocScrutinizer05~flashing19:35
infobotsomebody said maemo-flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh19:35
bluto271828yeah I'm going to wait for the 2nd phone to arrive first. this one is already too useful :)19:35
DocScrutinizer05hehe19:36
DocScrutinizer05~bm19:36
infobotwell, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6397519:36
bluto271828in someways it is depressing to realize things have gone backwards. why the f isnt there something like this anymore. it sucks.19:36
DocScrutinizer05http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9114219:36
DocScrutinizer05sure, way too expensive, sorry for that19:37
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DocScrutinizer05anyway you're not alone, welcome to the club of people who don't like those leete new whyPhones19:38
bluto271828yeah i will buy it if you are able to make it. not too expensive.19:38
DocScrutinizer05we are only able to make it when we get sufficient preorders. This isn't a product built for shelf, it's built to order with your name on it ;-)19:39
bluto271828yeah i understand19:39
bluto271828no problem i will preorder just haven't hot that far yet19:40
DocScrutinizer05:-D19:40
DocScrutinizer05welcome19:40
bluto271828only figure out what is going on like last week19:40
bluto271828got that far. i mean19:40
DocScrutinizer05nice you finally found this niche of the scene19:40
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DocScrutinizer05/join #neo90019:41
* DocScrutinizer05 shuts up - too much advertisement19:42
bluto271828yeah i did last week. slowly slowly19:42
DocScrutinizer05I'm the guy in duty of Neo90019:43
bluto271828i understand19:43
DocScrutinizer05here however it's about N900 and maemo devices at large19:43
DocScrutinizer05;-)19:43
DocScrutinizer05why dropbear? I use OpenSSH19:44
bluto271828i'll be back as I have anything to contribute. no reason. it was the first as I was scrolling through and I honestly wasn't expecting it to work. so I just clicked on it. then I realized I need to solve this root issue. so found a description saying rootfs package will fix the sudo gainroot19:46
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DocScrutinizer05yes19:46
DocScrutinizer05just beware of apt-get upgrade!19:46
DocScrutinizer05get CSSU-testing, it comes with speedyham which is incredibly faster than stock HAM19:47
DocScrutinizer05upgrading to CSSU is a pretty low risk easy thing that won't break your device19:47
DocScrutinizer05or system19:48
bluto271828yeah that is why I immediately ordered 2 more. As soon as I realized this will work for my problem but at the same time I want to learn HOW it is working. I can tell from your Wiki and other stuff this will get pretty hands on. so 2 more on their way to me via ebay19:48
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DocScrutinizer05where from?19:49
DocScrutinizer05private seller, or hongkong refurbished?19:49
bluto271828I'll come back when I can mess around more. Don't let me distract you from whatever it is you are working on now. 1st one came from US, some random guy in AL it seems.19:50
bluto271828the 2nd one looks like again from some in US. 3rd says hongkong19:51
DocScrutinizer05you want to check19:51
DocScrutinizer05~jrtools19:51
infobotwell, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools19:51
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bluto271828absolutely. thank you i will follow your steps19:52
bluto271828you all have my best wishes and its super cool you are here to ask questions and to help. hopefully over time I'll find a way to help you back. gotta run right now to finish working on dam tax stuff to give to my cpa. but anyway, i'll lurk when I can. and when I have a 2nd device i'll start again playing around. talk to you later and good luck!!19:56
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DocScrutinizer05o/19:59
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DocScrutinizer05http://www.n-tv.de/politik/NDR-Satire-Tuerkei-bestellt-Botschafter-ein-article17328671.html21:03
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DocScrutinizer05of course even RT   https://www.rt.com/news/337509-turkey-erdogan-germany-envoy/21:06
DocScrutinizer05laughing my skinny ass off21:09
DocScrutinizer05Streisand^2321:09
APicB-)21:10
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DocScrutinizer05honestly I can't recall ever before almost suffocating from laughing while watching official german TV news  http://www.tagesschau.de/21:13
DocScrutinizer05http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/erdogan-satire-103.html21:14
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DocScrutinizer05NB not laughing about the video which is nice but not particularly outstanding, but about that fool who thinks he can order German government to take that video down and thus caused what I predict will be the biggest case of Streisand effect even known21:22
DocScrutinizer05it's an excellent case to show why Turkey doesn't belong into EU21:23
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