| Wizzup | can you break down the problems? | 00:20 |
|---|---|---|
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| jonwil | Basically I need to somehow get the standard microb-engine build process (i.e. go into the folder and do dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot) to also compile certain tools (specifically the one that lets you manipulate the cert8.db file). | 00:26 |
| jonwil | I can manually compile the tools by going into nss folder and running make nss_build_all but that doesn't help, I need it to be built at the same time as the rest of microb-engine | 00:28 |
| jonwil | That or we need to figure out another way to remove the various bogus intermediate certificates from the cert8.db file as part of updating the set of root CA certicficates | 00:29 |
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| Maxdamantus | Can't you just add it to the build instructions somewhere? | 00:44 |
| Maxdamantus | cd blah/nss && make nss_build_all | 00:45 |
| Maxdamantus | debian/rules would probably be a reasonable place. | 00:46 |
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| jonwil | Except that it would pollute the build tree with garbage (you cant run a full mozilla build AND a nss_build_all build in the same build tree) | 00:52 |
| jonwil | So I want to figure out how to do an out-of-tree nss_build_all build that keeps all the files out of the build tree in a separate place | 00:52 |
| KotCzarny | is that a problem? | 00:57 |
| jonwil | yes it is | 00:57 |
| KotCzarny | i think it gets deleted after compiling/packaging anyway | 00:57 |
| kerio | how recent of a NSS are we talking here | 00:58 |
| Maxdamantus | Usually with ./configure-based things you just invoke the configure script from a different directory, though I have a feeling Gecko explicitly disallows that. | 01:03 |
| Maxdamantus | tar -xvf foo.tar.xz && mkdir foo-build && cd foo-build && ../foo/configure && make | 01:04 |
| Hurrian | ditto'ing Maxdamantus' answer, that's usually how I build gcc | 01:15 |
| Maxdamantus | gcc requires it afaik | 01:15 |
| Maxdamantus | Some combination of glibc, binutils and gcc don't support building in the source directory, so you have to do it somewhere else. | 01:16 |
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| Maxdamantus | 1: 2101, 2: 2104, 3: 2204 | 01:25 |
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| jrg | hello | 03:20 |
| jrg | is the N900 the only device that runs maemo still nowadays? | 03:20 |
| Maxdamantus | The N770/N800/N810 also run "maemo". | 03:21 |
| jrg | yeah but those are ancient. i was just curious if there was some sort of newer hardware device that has come out since the N900 that can run maemo5 | 03:22 |
| jrg | or is the N900 the latest hardware capable of running it? | 03:22 |
| Hurrian | jrg: nope, the N900 is so far, the only device properly running all of Fremantle | 03:23 |
| jrg | ah ok. that's a shame. really miss my N900. it was a great device but the hardware became so outdated | 03:24 |
| jrg | it because a pain to run microb | 03:24 |
| Maxdamantus | http://maxdamantus.eu.org/3n.jpg | 03:25 |
| jrg | i was hoping after all this time maybe someone released something that it could run on like maybe an x86 device like a zen fone | 03:25 |
| jrg | i loved the qwerty on the N900... too bad those are a thing of the past :( | 03:26 |
| * Maxdamantus uses Dvorak on his. | 03:26 | |
| Hurrian | jrg: fwiw, browsing the internet nowadays is even more painful, thanks to all the Javascript. | 03:26 |
| Hurrian | *browsing on the N900 | 03:26 |
| jrg | Hurrian: oh i don't disagree with you there.. but using safari on ios vs using microb on an N900 | 03:26 |
| jrg | i mean if the N900 had more power behind it .. it wouldn't be bad at all | 03:27 |
| Maxdamantus | Like if it were a Neo900? | 03:27 |
| Hurrian | I miss using the arrow keys to scroll long pages. | 03:27 |
| jrg | but the small ram coupled with the "swap" just slowed it to a crawl towards the end where i finally gave up on it | 03:27 |
| Hurrian | Maxdamantus: the Neo900 is still somewhat slow, IMO - it's about par with a N9/50 | 03:28 |
| jrg | isn't that still better than an N900? :) | 03:28 |
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| Hurrian | it'd be miles faster than the N900, and you can say good bye to swap (finally!)... but it'd still be kinda on the slow side nowadays. | 03:29 |
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| jrg | neo900 has a resistive screen still? :) | 03:29 |
| Maxdamantus | I don't think getting rid of swap is a good idea. | 03:30 |
| Maxdamantus | unless everything is running in some sort of VM where memory usage can be tightly controlled, you really should still have swap. | 03:30 |
| jrg | the neo900 looks interesting | 03:30 |
| Maxdamantus | otherwise the OOM killer will eventually kill things. | 03:30 |
| jrg | when is that thing due for release? | 03:31 |
| Hurrian | I'm working on a teeny Freescale i.MX6 board, derived from the Novena - while still behind flagship phones, it's probably good enough. And purchasable in quantities less than $FEW_THOUSAND. | 03:31 |
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| Oksanaa | For those who heard of or know about Nokia's battery charger DT-33: how to counter its sensitivity to ambient temperature? | 06:30 |
| Oksanaa | Its temperature sensor is intended to detect battery being too cold or too warm, and abort charging. However, it results in annoying no-charging when temperature is too high (like, 28°C in shadow inside house). High humidity (50%-75%) might also contribute | 06:32 |
| Oksanaa | While I appreciate craftsmanship of the plastic case, I would prefer the electronics to survive 50°C and 80% humidity extremes (while not charging), and reliably charge in 30°C temperatures | 06:37 |
| Oksanaa | It might require different position of temperature sensor(s) | 06:38 |
| * Oksanaa speaks as user, not as electronics or battery-charging expert | 06:41 | |
| Maxdamantus | Meh, the carrier for the SIM in my N9 only supports HSDPA. | 06:46 |
| Maxdamantus | So .. need a third plan. | 06:46 |
| Oksanaa | Fuuun... Three SIM slots in mobile phone, anybody? | 06:46 |
| Maxdamantus | Capitalism sucks. | 06:47 |
| * Oksanaa nods | 06:47 | |
| Maxdamantus | In rural areas, you have three towers in the same place, hosted by three different carries. In that place because it's relatively optimal in area covered. | 06:48 |
| Maxdamantus | Then when you're outside of that area, you're fucked. | 06:48 |
| Oksanaa | There are some devices which fork one SIM slot into two slots. Combine that with two-SIM-slots-phone, and you feel better. If software handles this, of course | 06:49 |
| * Oksanaa remembers something for making N900 two-SIMs-capable | 06:49 | |
| Oksanaa | I can be mistaken, I wasn't testing it | 06:50 |
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| Maxdamantus | I imagine it'd depend on the modem. | 06:54 |
| Maxdamantus | I think the SIM card is connected electronically to that. | 06:54 |
| Maxdamantus | s/electronically/electrically/ | 06:54 |
| infobot | Maxdamantus meant: I think the SIM card is connected electrically to that. | 06:54 |
| * Maxdamantus wants to try using his laptop's phone functionality, but apparently has to run something in Windows to enable it. | 06:56 | |
| * Maxdamantus has never booted Windows on his laptop. | 06:56 | |
| Oksanaa | Why in Windows? Phone functionality sounds like something to be enabled in BIOS? | 06:57 |
| Maxdamantus | Assuming the BIOS knows about it. | 06:59 |
| Maxdamantus | It doesn't. | 06:59 |
| Maxdamantus | Well, it might, depending on the scope of "BIOS". | 07:00 |
| Maxdamantus | I suspect it involves agreeing to some license. | 07:00 |
| Oksanaa | Then it's closed-source driver-like-switch for something-cellular implemented only for Windows? | 07:00 |
| Oksanaa | If it wasn't niche, there would have been hope of RE-ing it, I guess... | 07:01 |
| Maxdamantus | There are open source drivers for talking to the modem. You just have to flick some switch using some particular software that runs on Windows .. for some reason. | 07:02 |
| Oksanaa | Is it common in phone-laptops, or specific to this manufacturer? | 07:02 |
| Maxdamantus | http://support.lenovo.com/nz/en/downloads/migr-68495 | 07:02 |
| Maxdamantus | Dunno. | 07:02 |
| Oksanaa | Maxdamantus: have to windows it. maybe, live cd windows? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ThinkPad_mobile_internet | 07:10 |
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| KotCzarny | hurrian: remember that in n9 most of mem is eaten by some java engine (if my memory is not mistaken), so on fremantle 1GB should be more suitable, still, 2G would be even better | 09:07 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: there are physical adapters that can switch sim cards (cut out) even in single slot phones | 09:07 |
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| Maxdamantus | Java engine? O_o | 10:12 |
| Maxdamantus | Nothing in `ps aux` here matching "java" | 10:13 |
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| KotCzarny | well, its not java per se | 10:13 |
| KotCzarny | just some sandbox engine | 10:13 |
| Maxdamantus | I don't think it uses any sandbox other than Linux itself. | 10:13 |
| KotCzarny | hrm | 10:13 |
| KotCzarny | then my memory must be playing tricks | 10:14 |
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| ceene | nobody seems to have tested new yappari at -devel | 12:13 |
| KotCzarny | ..yet | 12:13 |
| ceene | they're my guinea pigs! | 12:13 |
| ceene | i don't want to push it to -testing until someone says something | 12:13 |
| ceene | it's working for me, but... | 12:14 |
| Sicelo | going to install shortly, when on wifi :) | 12:14 |
| ceene | i was thinking too of splitting gui and whatsapp | 12:15 |
| ceene | make libyap | 12:15 |
| Sicelo | but, i won't be able to test registration, which i guess was the main reason? anything else that changed? | 12:15 |
| ceene | in the end it's the thing that has the most changes | 12:15 |
| ceene | you will, that's the thing i've solved | 12:15 |
| Sicelo | sounds like good idea that .. :) | 12:15 |
| ceene | there's some much things i should do | 12:16 |
| ceene | i should just use libwa from coderus | 12:16 |
| ceene | but the apis are not compatible right now | 12:16 |
| ceene | and i'd have to backport libwa to qt4 | 12:16 |
| ceene | on the other side, it already supports textsecure | 12:17 |
| KotCzarny | talk to him about common maintainship of WA stack | 12:19 |
| ceene | if i backport it to qt4 i guess he'd be willing to merge it | 12:19 |
| KotCzarny | maybe he would help you with that? | 12:22 |
| KotCzarny | who knows | 12:22 |
| ceene | i just hate this thing | 12:32 |
| ceene | https://github.com/stenyak/breakbot | 12:33 |
| ceene | maybe this thing works | 12:33 |
| ceene | or some other | 12:33 |
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| ceene | thing is, we don't even have a good telegram client for n900 | 12:35 |
| ceene | so i can't even try and persuade my friends to use it | 12:35 |
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| Sicelo | indeed. some geek friends i have have switched to telegram, but again ... not many users. :) | 12:58 |
| buZz | if they dont irc, they are just not really geeks | 13:04 |
| Sicelo | :) | 13:10 |
| buZz | make sure to tell them that :P | 13:11 |
| buZz | maybe with something like 'once you used that practise stuff enough, you can come join the real irc' | 13:11 |
| ceene | best im application for maemo right now is yappari... which is quite sad | 13:20 |
| merlin1991 | wat? | 13:21 |
| merlin1991 | jabber works | 13:21 |
| Sicelo | yes, jabber is great :) | 13:30 |
| Sicelo | but again .. who uses it? :) | 13:30 |
| Sicelo | personally i'd be happy to use only irc and jabber (as jabber has everything: calls, im, video) | 13:31 |
| merlin1991 | I do, so do a few of my friends :D | 13:32 |
| ceene | merlin1991: it's not the same "works" than "sends image and video, reports and gets receipt/read reports", etc | 13:35 |
| merlin1991 | iirc there is an extension to the jabber protocol for that | 13:36 |
| ceene | on n900 the only thing that does that is yappari | 13:36 |
| ceene | i'm not saying there aren't alternatives better than whatsapp | 13:36 |
| ceene | i'm saying there aren't any for n900 | 13:36 |
| buZz | just send them a handwritten letter | 13:37 |
| ceene | i'd be thrilled to receive one | 13:39 |
| buZz | now, pay those emotions forward ceene | 13:39 |
| ceene | i can send you a handwritten letter if you want | 13:39 |
| ceene | postcards were nice | 13:40 |
| ceene | i remember there was one piece of software whose author instead of asking for donations, asked for postcards from its users | 13:40 |
| buZz | yeah its a license type | 13:41 |
| ceene | postcard-ware | 13:41 |
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| jonwil | hi | 14:11 |
| ceene | hi, jonwil | 14:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | errwhat? >>iPhone's preinstalled app 'health' constantly records all sports activities, without user asking for that<< (quote from TV news, sidenote in a report about health apps) | 17:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | spyPhone, indeed | 17:28 |
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| Wizzup | and don't tell it the date is 1 january, 1970 | 17:46 |
| KotCzarny | ;) | 17:46 |
| KotCzarny | good sploit | 17:46 |
| KotCzarny | 'can i see your phone for a moment?' | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? what will happen? | 17:58 |
| KotCzarny | he he | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | self destruct? | 17:58 |
| Wizzup | it will fail to boot | 17:58 |
| Wizzup | on all the 64 bit arm ones at least | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 17:58 |
| Wizzup | and then 4chan made https://i.imgur.com/mnfsKzF.png | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, in case you just have to wait one day and then you can edit the resulting date from 2nd Jan 1970 to something more sane ;-) | 17:59 |
| Wizzup | yes | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nice gimmick | 18:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I just hope it doesn't bootloop and kill the battery before the "day" is over | 18:02 |
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| Wizzup | if it does, then the clock is reset too | 18:02 |
| Wizzup | probably to manufacture date | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I had expected it resets to 1st Jan 1970 :-P | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, possibly the bootloader takes care to set a bogus but less 'rogue' date, only if the RTC got reset | 18:04 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders trying a `>xxx; touch --date="1955-01-01" yyy` | 18:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/yyy/xxx/ | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wow | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~/tmp> touch --date="1855-01-01" xxx; ll xxx | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 jr users 0 1. Jan 1855 xxx | 18:10 |
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| Wizzup | very few devices that I know reset to 1970 | 18:12 |
| Wizzup | except for the sheevaplug | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | man 2 stat; man 2 time >>time() returns the time as the number of seconds since the Epoch, 1970-01-01 00:00:00 +0000 (UTC).<< | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder how the heck the filesystem stores, and stat() resturns, dates like 1. Jan 1855 | 18:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | time_t clearly seems to be a uint (or ulong, whatever) with seconds since epoch | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or has that recently been changed to a 64bit int with seconds since bigbang? | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ummm #define __TIME_T_TYPE __SYSCALL_SLONG_TYPE | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | # define __SYSCALL_SLONG_TYPE __SLONGWORD_TYPE | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it's a signed 64bit? | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ 2**63/3600/24/365 | 18:28 |
| infobot | 292471208677.536010742188 | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | suffices til Y2Trillion-problem kicks in ;-) | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind Y2K-problem ;-P | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/(time() returns the time as the number of seconds )since( the Epoch, 1970-01-01 00:00:00 +0000 (UTC).)/\1since\/before\2/ | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ 1970 + 2**31/3600/24/365 | 18:42 |
| infobot | 2038.096259766616 | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup: anyway you're right. RTCs generally work completely different, having no idea about epoch | 18:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | depends on chip what date they reset to on POR | 18:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | most RTC have a 2digit BCD year value from 00 to 99 | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so odds are it would reset to year (20)00 | 19:04 |
| Wizzup | olimex boards reset to 2010 | 19:05 |
| Wizzup | at least the ones that I have | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wow, so they have a one digit year only | 19:05 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or a N-bit binary integer for year value | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Y1Decade problem approaching in 4 years | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly the designers thought it's safe to assume their product won't get older than 16 years, so 4 bit for the year value are just fine ;-) | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually you might get away with assuming your system gets booted at least once per 16 years, and you store a new offset somewhere in persistent storage and adjust the RTC accordingly | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you assume your system gets booted at least once per year, this scheme can get away without any year values in RTC | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | downside of such scheme: restoring backups will mess up your system time massively | 19:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | when Amiga had no RTC, they simply forward-adjusted the syystem time accordingly whenever they found an arbitrary file on storage with a modification/access time supposedly into the future ;-) | 19:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so adding a true clock was the very first hack I applied to all my Amiga devices | 19:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | later it got augmented by a DCF77 receiver with decoding in software (had to write a decoder for that) | 19:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ROTFL, if only I knew back when: >>There was also a Morse code station identification until 2006, sent during minutes 19, 39 and 59 of each hour<< | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCF77 | 19:49 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if it wuld be a feasible worthwhile and funny experiment to directly connect a 77.5kHz ferrite antenna + capacitor rrsonant circuit with a FET amp to a computer's audio-in | 20:14 | |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why didn't you use a NTP client? :> | 20:42 |
| KotCzarny | ~ugt | 20:47 |
| infobot | hmm... ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html | 20:47 |
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